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224 Responses to “General Debate 29 November 2009”
First let me offer an apology to Phecal Phool who seemed to be upset over my “House Nigger” comment from yesterday, this link may be of interest to you.
The esteemed coloured gentlemen I refer to, have been part of a process that sold out large numbers of other coloured gentlemen purely for financial gain, and in doing so helped our elected representatives to saddle our country with one of the worst pieces of legislation ever, the Emissions Trading Scam.
One must feel a degree of sorrow for Nick Smith as the architect of this rort, as he has only done what DonKey has told him to do, but when it all turns to shite it will all be Nicks fault, the Don not even having left a fingerprint to be found, which will leave Nick about as popular as a turd in a spa pool and the Don smelling like roses.
Probably the worst part of this process must be the National MP’s’, the rank and file, the ones we voted for a year ago, not one single one of these gutless, spineless, bottom feeders lifted his/her head from the trough to say there was anything even slightly wrong with this piece of legislation that was being rammed through parliament at hyper speed, even after serious questions were raised over the validity of some the raw data the ETScam was being based on, a pox on the lot of you.
The average Kiwi knows very little about this scam, but still manages to trust those he voted for are doing the right thing for him and helping to “save the planet”, and will remain ignorant of it until it starts biting them in their wallet.
Those of us that thought we may get a “breath of fresh air” from a change of govt, are now starting to work out it’s still the same fetid pong we have had for the last nine years.
The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition.
“Commonsense about Climate Change”
Links in header:
To help non-scientist visitors: LAYMAN’S GUIDE TO ‘GLOBAL WARMING’ http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html
- their front page Editorial: The Great Global Warming Hoax?
Sorry folks, but we’re not exactly buying into the Global Hysteria just yet.
First “question”: Climate Change Is Real
True: While you are correct, you have been misled by media and government hype if you think the statement is meaningful.
False: Climate change is as “real” as Sunrise, gravity and supernovas in distant galaxies.
The question is meaningless (they asked the non-question): That is correct. The question is meaningless since climate always changes. Global cooling is a far greater threat to humanity than warming and we appear to be entering a cooling phase that is expected to continue at least to 2030. Unfortunately, world governments are preparing solely for warming.
About us and why
Coalition’s mission:
To represent accurately, and without prejudice, facts regarding climate change; to provide considered opinion on matters related to both natural and human-caused climate effects; and to comment on the economic and socio-political consequences of climate change.
The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition was formed in April 2006 by a group of New Zealanders who are concerned at the misleading information being disseminated about climate change and so-called anthropogenic (man-made) global warming. The Coalition is committed to ensuring that New Zealanders receive balanced scientific opinions that reflect the truth about climate change and the exaggerated claims that have been made about anthropogenic global warming.
You can make your own mind up how balanced they are.
Dont you think that NZ entering into an ETS is not so much about saving our Planet but saving our trade?
That said go Australia and their revolt against their own ETS. Lets hope it spreads and we see an inquiry into the accuracy of the information submitted by the Hadley CRU.
Interested to know how many of the regular anti-AGW posters here generally accept the science of evolution?
Thumb up if you do, thumb down if you are more into creation.
Thanks – and don’t forget there are 63,000 of them here, that they are targetting Maori, and that they have the niave and blinkered-support of Lock, Minto et al.
Indeed Komata – and they are already going into the prisons seeking converts – the thoughts of gangs becoming a rallying point for Islam is somewhat frightening.
“Frank J. Tipler, professor of mathematical physics at Tulane University, on the true significance of Climategate:
The now non-secret data prove what many of us had only strongly suspected — that most of the evidence of global warming was simply made up. That is, not only are the global warming computer models unreliable, the experimental data upon which these models are built are also unreliable. As Lord Monckton has emphasized here at Pajamas Media, this deliberate destruction of data and the making up of data out of whole cloth is the real crime — the real story of Climategate.
It is an act of treason against science. It is also an act of treason against humanity, since it has been used to justify an attempt to destroy the world economy.”
Luc Hansen posted the following last week – [in the face of some heavy criticism from me]:
Excellent interview today on RadioNZ:
10:05 Can inter-faith dialogue lead to peace in the Middle East?
Rabbi David Rosen, director of the American Jewish Committee’s Department for Interreligious Affairs; International co-president of the World Council of Religions for Peace;
..
I struggle to find anything said by Rosen to disagree with
But more importantly, while recognising the essential territorial nature of the conflict, he introduces religious interaction and reconciliation as a means of arriving at a settlement. Those interested in peace will find him uplifting.
He’s speaking in Melbourne tomorrow night at LaTrobe University. I’d love to go – pending time & kids etc.
Others will no doubt accuse him of naivety, ignorance, even anti-Semitism (even though he is, obviously, a Jew) – the latter because he advocates joint ownership and communal sharing of all Jerusalem by both peoples races and all three faiths who claim spiritual attachment to the land.
I urge you all to listen.
I listened – it was a good interview.
He won’t be accused of naivety, ignorance, even anti-Semitism – the he’s extremely well respected by Jews. Synagogues here are promoting his visit. Does that surprise you?
The fact is that (and he says this in his radio interview) that 70% of Jews and Israelis agree with his philosphy. He believes that the 2 state solution is the only solution, and it’s achievable.
So if you agree with his views – that are so well respected as the middle ground, then this flies in the face of a lot of what you have posted about Israel in your time here.
Do you maintain your position, or do you want to disagree with him now?
Recall of Harawira stamp
People do not spit on stamps – if they are non-adhesive, they LICK them.
Truth may be people just can not bring themselves to lick Hone’s backside.
Peter – thanks for your post about Climate Change. I went and did the quiz which was most revealing. I have been complaining about how unbalanced the reporting in the NZ Herald is and how I wished for some ‘other’ reading, and you have provided it. And not just my own answers to the quiz, but also looking at the explanations about the other choices in the multichoice.
Its all just political isn’t it. We don’t have the ‘cold war’ anymore so we invent another ‘global’ debate.
I do think its interesting that in NZ we have Chris De Freitas (is that how you spell it) vs Jim Salinger ex NIWA. I listen to both of them, but the recent email unveiling, and the ‘withheld’ evidence? has shaken my perceptions.
I do think that our print press is irresponsible in their hyping up of issues out of all proportion and forcing them to become contentious, just to sell newspapers viz climate change.
I hear that the Aussies loudly rejected their ETS. And ours is so pathetic, that if I was Key I would be embarrased by it. However maybee its for the best, and they can repeal it soon.
Lucy – I have read Chris De Freitas on glaciers not receeding, but what’s your take on those pix we see on TV with the Antartic ice shelf falling into the sea?
Scum like Brown and the fools at the commonwealth conference couldn’t give a fat rats arse about climate gate, it was never about saving the world. This was just a convenient excuse, many of these crooks have come to far and have to much invested to back down. They will continue with their plans for a one world government and the advancement of socialism and eventual totalitarianism. Is there enough political power left with those that see this for the evil piece of shit that it is and kill it, I fear there is not.
Gordon brown wants a global surveillance network in the form of satellites to make sure country’s aren’t cheating on their carbon emissions, straight from the book of revelations that mad man is.
Not boasting, but scored 10/10. Everyone should get 10/10. If you don’t know a correct answer, assume the biases of the quiz setters and use that as the basis of the answer. Not rocket science, just observation.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Not boasting, but scored 10/10. Everyone should get 10/10. If you don’t know a correct answer, assume the biases of the quiz setters and use that as the basis of the answer. Not rocket science, just observation.
What is it about the left? You cant even take a quizz with honesty but make up the answers so you can ‘win’ at all costs. But we are not supprised it seems to go with the socalist mind set ay billy?
Doug, I see Al Bore had to flee a book store signing the other day in Chicago, seems the snake oil salesman didn’t like the hostile crowd and fled out a back door and jumped into a waiting limo. The crowd was yelling words like charlatan and bullshitter, sounds like a high class crowd to me.
Lucy, its got nothing to dow tih being left right or homosexual. It is about looking at who constructed the quiz and why. It is called cold reading, the same sort of thing that “psychics” do, something I do well, although I claim no paranormal powers.
And what’s wrong with being a socialist? It is a great way to view the world, although it does often get you in to bed with strange bedfellows. You see, I’m a climate change sceptic, but keep finding my bed full of denialists.
Looks like the Nats have fucked up again. The list is growing almost daily. One wonders if they did anything in their 9 years in opposition for they didn’t learn much about principles.
the Justice System’s next corrupt treatment of Scott Watson:
Re: The Aristocracy Confirmed
In October 2008 Scott Watson petitioned the Governor General for a pardon. He included copies of Trial By Trickery and Murder on The Blade? with his petition as the documentation providing grounds for it. The Governor General passed the application to the Minister of Justice, who in April appointed a QC to inquire into the case and provide an advisory report on it. This note relates to that appointment and its present outcome.
Everyone familiar with my book or film will be aware that it is crucial for the inquiry to address the conduct of several high-ranking members of the New Zealand justice system. Saving the late Richard Heron, all of these people have been invited to explain their conduct as described in the book. None has taken the opportunity and their silence can convey only the obvious meaning. They are the present Deputy Commissioner of Police (Rob Pope), the Crown Prosecutors Davison, Crutchley and Raftery, trial judge the late Justice Heron, and the three judges of the Court of Appeal, Richardson, Gault and Henry. The first requirement of the inquiry is therefore that it must be conducted by a qualified person who has no prior association with any of these people. Any lawyer with any of the following backgrounds must be disqualified from appointment:
• A history as a Crown Prosecutor or association with the Crown Law Office in Wellington. This is particularly relevant since at the time of Watson’s trial until 2006 prosecutor Nicola Crutchley was the Deputy Solicitor General (Criminal), the Crown Law official whose function was to approve and appoint Crown Prosecutors;
• An obvious relationship with the police, particularly with its upper echelons.
• A connection with Christchuch legal circles in the 1980’s and 1990’s, since Deputy Commissioner of Police Rob Pope spent all of his early career as a policeman there.
Obviously no lawyer at all can report on the conduct of the Court of Appeal except to find that the conduct needs address by a superior process.
The lawyer Minister Simon Power appointed to conduct the inquiry into Scott Watson’s conviction is Ms Kristy McDonald QC.
• Ms McDonald has been a crown prosecutor for almost 30 years, starting in Christchurch in the 1980s. It is reasonable to assume that she prosecuted cases in that city brought by Mr Pope and that they have an association going back to that time.
• Ms McDonald is still a Crown Prosecutor. Now she is in Wellington, where she has continual contact with the Crown Law Office. From the mid-nineties to 2006, each time she was appointed prosecutor to a criminal case her appointment was made by Deputy Solicitor General Nicola Crutchley and she was responsible to the Crown Law Office as her employer. It would be remarkable if Ms McDonald avoided a close professional and personal relationship with Ms Crutchley during the years of their association as Crown Prosecutors and as employer and employee in the same city.
• Another of Ms McDonald’s major employers is the Police Force. She has acted as counsel for the police for many years and conducts internal inquiries for them. In 2004 she acted as counsel for the police in a major public inquiry. She has acted as counsel to the Commissioner of Police.
• It is impossible for Ms McDonald not to have an ongoing personal and/or professional association with Deputy Commisssioner Pope dating back perhaps twenty-five years, and impossible for her to have no bond with the institution of the Police. There is no QC in New Zealand who has greater access to, association with, and both personal and professional links with the upper echelons of the police than Ms McDonald. There is no QC in New Zealand who might better be described as a ‘police lawyer’ than Ms McDonald.
• Ms McDonald has other government appointments. She has chaired the Mental Health Review Tribunal and was a member of the Removal Review Authority. In 2008 she was appointed chairwoman of the Judicial Control Authority for Racing. Just four weeks before awarding her the Watson inquiry the Minister appointed her chair of the Real Estate Agents Authority. It would appear that there are few “independent” lawyers in New Zealand more obliged to the “System” for lucrative employment than Ms McDonald. She appears to be a political pet .
The appointment is cynical in the extreme. Barrring Paul Davison, there is no QC in New Zealand more ineligible for this inquiry than Ms McDonald.
SSB; I see the same treatment has been handed out to Rod Pertrevic when he went to dine in Remmers. Apparently He isn’t very well liked by the locals. Wonder why??
Is this a test of the provocation Law that no longer exists. Had someone banged him on the head like they did Vercoe the other day, and Petrevic had carked it, would provocation be a fair defence??
Let me tell you a little true story billy. Many years ago, before my second child was conceived, I was on a form of chemotherapy for a blood disorder. When we found out that a child was on the way, we were advised that there was a possibility of a genetic disorder, and advised by my haematologist to have an amniocentesis test. We met with the gynaecologist who told us of the possible implications, then said something profound – “Are you prepared to act on the test results if there is an abnormality found?”. After much discussion, we flagged the test, and were rewarded with a beautful baby girl. She’s just finished her first year at university, and has a wonderful life ahead of her.
Everyone has a right to life billy – that’s my absolute belief. I respect your right to hold a different belief, but not to ram it down someone’s throat in a cruel and callous manner as you did yesterday. That was, IMHO, contemptible.
Now who still doesn’t think that Henry should be the AB’s coach???
I think he has shut you South Islanders up now.
how many has your wonderful Deans won this year??
I think its funny how the opinion on the ABs sways so much, its like they lose one game, and everyones out for blood, they win another, and its “Now who still doesn’t think that Henry should be the AB’s coach???”
NZ’ers need to learn the significance of long term results , before passing such judgements
Michaels – after South Africa, I was calling for Henry’s head. But since the coaches has a realighnment, the AB’s performances have improved markedly. I was wrong. That was a terrific performance this morning.
Quite right V2, probably why the politicians are so keen to dump this law, perhaps they are thinking of the future, theirs. When Kiwis wake up and realise they have been sold down the river big time politicians may need to go on the endangered species list.
I2 I agree, the reassigning of coaches seems to have refreshed their approach. The were obviously playing for safe results most of this tour but chose to go for it against the French and it all came off. A lot of great performances. Jane always looks dangerous. I think Conrad Smith changes the backline, he had a great game on attack and defence. Lineout has transformed over the season. Cowan had a much better game, The all played well. Gotta enjoy it when it all comes together.
Trying to link Climategate to denying Evolution is the new smear.
The ramifications of this are so huge my head hurts.
Tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars of public and private money (mostly public – down to a local level) has been spent on this ‘problem’ worldwide. Imagine if that had been spent on true environmental problems.
There’s a new denier game coming your way very soon and it’s not going to be pretty. Re-invention will be the name of the game in the coming months.
I’m assuming the taxpayer will end footing the bill for that to.
So called Climategate seems to be working quite well, it gives the conspiracy crowd something to get excited about while the real world checks, adjusts as necessary and carries on as usual. There could never be one killer blow to something as diverse as climate science, but it gives the unbelievers a chance to believe they have won something.
It has been one small setback for some scientists, but it’s far from a giant negating of all science.
On the Climategate or global warming fraud finding where all our soon to be stolen money to pay for this pyramid fraud is going and who’s pockets beside Albullshit Gore….. http://newsbusters.org/node/11149
Just listened to Kennedy Graham, David Wratt and Tim Groser debate Climate change on National Radio.
Kennedy and David are in agreement with moi that the ETS National passed is a joke, and doesn’t even begin to address the issue. We might get brownie points for having an ETS but its a claytons one. http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday (You have to listen)
Inventory…… Why is it that so many Kiwi’s have this meantality…. lose one match, two even more so and the coach must go??
We are NEVER going to win every game. Why can’t we simply look at the stats of a season and decide then.
Henry would be the most successful rugby coach in the game and moving himself to the forwards has certainly proved that to be the case. Now just wait till Ali returns next season.
Yes Pete, now take two aspirin and have a nice wee lie down least your head explodes, dreaming up different ways to defend this bullshit, it must be taxing (pun intended).
Michaels – it wasn’t just the losses – it was the manner of the losses. The AB’s looked rudderless during the first half of the Tri-Nations. They have improved markedly as the season has dragged on, and without doubt turned in their best 80-minute effort today.
Pete George – Quite true, I am in no way denying that the climate changes.
However, what I think is going to become clear in the next couple of years is that C02 is not the driver and in fact plays a very minor role in regards to C02 produced by man causing change.
How much of that hundreds of billions has been used towards mitigating C02? 80%?
I have a feeling that no matter what you see or read you will hold your position against all evidence to the contrary.
Michaels – it wasn’t just the losses – it was the manner of the losses. The AB’s looked rudderless during the first half of the Tri-Nations. They have improved markedly as the season has dragged on, and without doubt turned in their best 80-minute effort today.
Exactly. I expect that the All Blacks will lose matches on occasion. It was the often bizarre position choices made by Henry, the handling errors and lack of focus that were the hallmark of the opening season that were causing upset. Plus weird strategic choices- like not telling the team the margin they needed to retain the Gallagher cup when France toured NZ.
I would like to see some more evidence that we have hit a turning point before I rejoin the Henry fan club.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Let me tell you a little true story billy. Many years ago, before my second child was conceived, I was on a form of chemotherapy for a blood disorder. When we found out that a child was on the way, we were advised that there was a possibility of a genetic disorder, and advised by my haematologist to have an amniocentesis test. We met with the gynaecologist who told us of the possible implications, then said something profound – “Are you prepared to act on the test results if there is an abnormality found?”. After much discussion, we flagged the test, and were rewarded with a beautful baby girl. She’s just finished her first year at university, and has a wonderful life ahead of her
What’s your point? By the sound of it, the test would have been negative, therefore the oiytcome would have been the same.
Any takers..how long before one of the famous cabal breaks rank and cuts a deal..with ever increasing calls for congressional investigations..not long..probably breaking the DA’s door down as i write..
I have a feeling that no matter what you see or read you will hold your position against all evidence to the contrary.
I think you are dead wrong on this. I don’t have a position or positions to hold. Points I have made repeatedly:
- I’m not an expert and keep looking for expert opinions and indicators
- this is ongoing science with a lot to be learnt yet
- there will be mistakes made and readjustments of probabilities
- there is as likely to be as many underestimations as there are over estimations
- I have always been dubious about the benefits of the ETS
I do point out the totally unsupported claims of hoaxes and world governments. Not even the CRU release gave any credence to these.
This is great: Climategate could end Obama’s Cap & Trade… [bit in bold is what we should have done to Hulun's lightbulb law]. I’ve quoted the whole lot cause it’s so good.
Just a few considerations in addition to previous remarks about the explosion of the East Anglia Climategate e-mails in America. The reaction is growing exponentially there. Fox News, Barack Obama’s Nemesis, is now on the case, trampling all over Al Gore’s organic vegetable patch and breaking the White House windows. It has extracted some of the juiciest quotes from the e-mails and displayed them on-screen, with commentaries. Joe Public, coast-to-coast, now knows, thanks to the clowns at East Anglia’s CRU, just how royally he has been screwed.
Senator James Inhofe’s Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works has written to all the relevant US Government agencies, acquainting them with the nature of the e-mails. But the real car crash for Obama is on Capitol Hill where it is now confidently believed his Cap and Trade climate legislation is toast. It was always problematic; but with a growing awakening to the scale of the scientific imposture sweeping the world, as far as the Antipodes, the clever money is on Cap and Trade laws failing to pass, with many legislators sceptical and the mid-term elections looming ever closer.
At the more domestic level, the proposed ban on incandescent light bulbs, so supinely accepted in this servile state of Britain, is now provoking a huge backlash in America. US citizens do not like the government coming into their houses and putting their lights out. Voters may not understand the cut and thrust of climate debate at the technical level, but they know when the Man from Washington has crossed their threshold uninvited.
The term that Fox News is now applying to the Climategate e-mails is “game-changer”. For the first time, Anthropogenic Global Warming cranks are on the defensive, losing their cool and uttering desperate mantras such as “You can be sceptical, not denial.” Gee, thanks, guys. In fact we shall be whatever we want to be, without asking your permission.
At this rate, Copenhagen is going to turn into a comedy convention with the real world laughing at these liars. Now is the time to mount massive resistance to the petty tyrants and hit them where it hurts – in the wallet. Further down the line there may be, in many countries, a question of criminal prosecution of anybody who has falsified data to secure funds and impose potentially disastrous fiscal restraints on the world in deference to a massive hoax. It’s a new world out there, Al, and, as you may have noticed, the climate is very cold indeed.
The point is this billy. We could have found out that our child-to-be wasn’t going to be perfect, and had her aborted. We chose not to, and to take whatever we were given. By the grace of God we were gifted a glorious child; had the dice rolled differently, we wouldn’t have cherished her any less at all.
But then with your black and white approach, and your quest for perfection, I don’t for one moment expect you to understand.
Apparently the crims get to choose whether or not they would like to continue to maintain their habit – at the taxpayer’s expense.
“Corrections’ acting national health manager Deb Alleyne said prisoners were provided with “support and encouragement” to reduce their intake of methadone, or come off it, but ultimately the decision was theirs.”
Well…
You’d think that if some scum entered prison addicted, they’d be told they’re going to be put on a treatment programme, and then someone would have the fortitude to carry through and make sure they left prison clean.
None of this namby-pamby “support and encouragement” nonsense.
I’m absolutely flabbergasted.
What kind of sick, twisted mind would think it perfectly reasonable to continue to provide an addict with their drug of choice? It’s illegal, and it harms everyone – you’d think they’d try wean them off it!
There’s a tendency here to assume that because some of what philu says wouldn’t look out of place in Lewis Carroll, it’s safe to disregard everything he says. That would be foolish, especially when he’s talking about something with which he has had experience which few of us can match.
Case in point: he is absolutely right (@3.33pm) with regard to methadone.
In Australian (I’m not sure about NZ) addicts are treated with suboxone, a much “cleaner” opiate, mixed with a substance which makes it pointless for them to take additional heroin.
[I too think morphine is a much better option in a controlled environment like a detox centre but unfortunately it's street value makes it problematic. Suboxone is basically worthless on the street].
But when an addict commits a crime and is imprisoned they are forced onto methadone – a drug which, as phil correctly says, is far more addictive than heroin and has some pretty nasty side effects. And ironically, because it can be taken along with other opiates, addicts do sell their doses.
Corrections are doing prisoners no favours giving them methadone – they are in fact worsening their addiction and thus increasing the chances they will reoffend on release.
And while it’s a well-accepted truism of drug therapy that nothing will work unless an addict has reached a place in their own mind where they want to be rid of their addiction, Rufus (@ 3.23) does have a partial point.
In my experience Corrections offer absolutely no encouragement to an offender to reduce their methadone during their time in jail beyond simply asking them if they’d like to. Sure they allow Narcotics Anonymous, Prison Fellowship and other groups in, and they do their best, but Corrections could support their efforts in numerous ways and choose not to – for instance grouping together prisoners who want to get clean, offering them increased privileges over time as a reward for reduction, and better conditions once they’re entirely clean.
Why should we? Simply because if we eliminated addiction from society crime would plummet and we’d all be safer, which seems to me reason enough.
Is our host slipping into the hand puppet mode that we saw the standard and other lefty blogs slipped into during Hellens reign?
Around the world and even on his own blog, the biggest news is in fact what is now called Climategate. And National, under urgency rushed through their ETS (Dont give me the “to replace the Labour’s dogs breakfast scheme… it could have been simply repealed if they were really worried) And only one little comment from Farrar. And dont give me the “not have had time to read it” nonsense , there is entries on a stripper in NZ nominated for BWY and of Catholic girls and Phil Goff etc.
David I realise that this is your blog and you can do what you want, however you were always quick to point out when left blogs were quiet about things you thought important. Maybe a bit of honesty?
[DPF: Are you a moron? Have you not noticed I have not posted anything for two to three days except two quick 5 minute posts earlier today when I finally got online again. Are you not aware I am overseas? Did you not see me say I would not be blogging much?
It’s almost certainly no coincidence that the CRU release has happened coming up to Copenhagen. It reveals a few scientists playing with matches, it’s far from a forest fire. But it highlights a number of issues that would benefit from being publicised and examined. Can’t do much about it worldwide from here but we could at least look at it in NZ, especially in light of NIWA research being thrown into the Climategate pot.
I would support the idea of a public inquiry. That would take time – in the meantime it makes sense to stick with the status quo ie go with the generally accepted weight of evidence and proceed with the ETS and with Copenhagen. If it ends up costing us a bit of money, well, it’s only money versus the good of the earth and the human race. Most people see the worth in spending money on insurance, this is like an insurance policy (albeit with unproven benefits).
The enquiry should ideally look at all aspects of the climate change issue including:
- how does NIWA data and research stand up
- the weight of climate research supporting the current policies
- the weight of evidence against
- if there is any evidence of collusion (scientists and politicians) in a scam or plot to use climate change to put a world government in place
I know this is not going to happen, but if something like that took place I’d be happy to go with the outcome of it.
An indeterminate number of people picking bits out of websites of doubtful quality to support often extreme views (both ways) just clouds the issue with amateur smoke.
it takes 200 litres of water..to make one glass of milk…
Rubbish. I assume that doesn’t include rain water which falls on the farm? So if I have 200 dairy cows, each producing 20 litres/day, then between the farm and the milk processing plant we’re using 200 * 20 * 3 * 200 = 2,400 tonnes of water per day? (assuming a generous glass size of 333 ml).
Where did that number come from? I suspect it’s from a very dry place where they need to irrigate extensively. Certainly not New Zealand.
“maybe ‘cos ‘climategate’..(as you spin it)..is..in the grand scheme of things..irrelevant..?”
Oh yes phil, you and the rest of the globalists would really like that, wouldn’t you. You evil bastards who want to enslave the word with global laws that do nothing but oppress the masses, would love Copenhagen to succeed, wouldn’t you?
Damn you people make me furious. You’re so blatantly evil and oppressive, going against every vestige of human right and freedom and yet you claim to “weally weally care [foot stamp].”
Newsflash phil, some of us have NEVER been fooled by your humanitarian smokescreen. Some of us have ALWAYS known you and your ilk are just downright plain pure and simple evil.
So there.
Seriously phil, since you claim you don’t like capitalism and are on the side of people, etc; how come you and the Greens are totally in bed with the globalists on this issue?
I don’t blame Phil. You can find a lot of info on the web about very large amounts of water per kg or litre of food. I’m pretty sure most of those numbers come from places where they irrigate like mad. NZ dairying by and large isn’t like that.
Side Show Bob: how much water do you use on your farm per litre of milk?
One week on and Climategate is still a major scandal.
“Go away! Go away!” Mann and Phool cry, but yet it will not. Maybe they would use Gordon Brown’s CO2 spotting satellite to find the perpetrators and BRING THEM TO JUSTICE.
“It reveals a few scientists playing with matches, it’s far from a forest fire.”
Yeah, that’s the line the MSM is desperately playing Pete, in the hope it will just go away. An observable fact that should give pause for thought to more than a few who for some reason, STILL think that, despite the mountains of evidence (e.g. Iraq war build-up, lack of info on where the bailout money’s going, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.) the MSM Fourth Estate play a straight hand.
“and the ‘evil’ ones aren’t the ones actually fucking the planet/our futures..?”
phil, you still haven’t answered the question. How come, you, the environmentalists who weep and wail about the planet. and the Greens; are all in bed and in lockstep with the evil cabal of globalist politicians and bankers who want to enslave the world by enacting global legislation that destroys national sovereignty?
Both they and you guys are really keen on Copenhagen. What’s the matter. Didn’t you know that, or do you just not want to admit that you’ve hitched your wagon to a bunch of people against whom you consistently rail: i.e. the Wall Street Bankers, et al?
you and the rest of the globalists would really like that, wouldn’t you. You evil bastards who want to enslave the word with global laws that do nothing but oppress the masses, would love Copenhagen to succeed, wouldn’t you?
That’s the sort of quote that makes it difficult for people who have legitimate queries about climate change issues to be taken seriously.
At least 9-11 conspiracies don’t have many contradictory scapegoats.
I wonder how the Greens, communists, capitalist bankers, world wide politicians and all scientists apart from a few heroic ones can agree on this dastardly plan yet keep it completely secret except for a few people that don’t want to do anything about the climate just happen to “know” about it.
Point is phil, there has never been a global taxation system where individual countries don’t get to decide their own rates.
Second point phil, is that until the hugely significant questions of
(a) whether CO2 is really a greenhouse gas and
(b) precisely what influence does the sun have on geologic temp fluctuations;
are settled, we don’t know whether the planet is fucked, or not.
So we’re being driven by MSM-promoted global hysteria based on questionable science to implement a regime capable of imposing a hugely variable international taxation system. Glad to hear you’re quite sanguine about that, but I’m not.
“t least 9-11 conspiracies don’t have many contradictory scapegoats.”
Yes, try not to dissemble too hard, pete. I’ve never said 911 is a conspiracy, I’ve only ever said the official story is complete and utter bollocks which a ten-year-old could see through. That’s all I’ve said.
Why the hell should we be providing junkies with methadone, come to think of it, why the fuck are we providing them with anything at all?
Lock the bastards in a cell, let them go cold turkey, if one or two do not make it who really cares, they are only junkies after all.
I am sick of providing ‘care’ for these wankers, they decided to take drugs, they made a personal choice to out that shit in their bodies and yet we are the ones who are left to carry the can.
The only exception to this rule should be for the poor bastards who are born junkies, they cannot help it if they became addicted because of their mothers drug habit.
An indeterminate number of people picking bits out of websites of doubtful quality to support often extreme views (both ways) just clouds the issue with amateur smoke.
Ha Ha, are you smoking weed down there Pete?
You spent most of the end of last week denying ( ) anything was going on by linking constantly to RealClimate which as you know is owned by Micheal Mann of hockey stick fame and Gavin Schmidt 2IC of the GIS temperature record ( which funnily enough agrees with the CRU record, wonder what they’ll find once that congressional hearing gets going?).
The person blowing most of the smoke round here seems to be you.
it reveals a few scientists playing with matches
No sorry Pete, it reveals the ten or fifteen most expert climate scientists on earth, who have been screaming doom at us for ten years were actually a bunch of unethical, manipulative liars who fudged data when it didn’t suit their case, schemed to game the peer review process, schemed to subvert the law in the UK and USA and completely tossed the scientific method out the window.
“Can you show what is wrong with Michael Mann’s hockey stick?”
Pete, the fact you haven’t researched those basic issues speaks volumes.
OTOH, you seem like an erudite fellow so perhaps you have. How about you give us info on what’s right with it, that answers all the well known questions.
Ok so Dr Don has put out his report to the National; Socialists and true to thier breeding they are in denial. Key on TV1 tonight says that they were elected for certain policy and are not about to change from that. Ha, remember tax cuts???
So the chances of us catching Australia are now on hold for another 2 years at least until we can pump some backbone up these guys.
As I said earlier they are going from bad to worse. Apparently though there are still a lot of starry eyed Kiwi’s out there that think all is well with the world and Shonkey is the mesiah.
Prepare for tough times ahead.
“That’s why I wanted to know what your take on it is.”
Sigh. Here’s a summary and more here but you know what Pete, this is as boring to me as discussing why WTC7 collapsed in on itself at the speed of freefall with no external contributing factors. [Yawn].
You believe what you want about the science. I prefer discussing the politics of climate change for that’s where the action is and believe it or not, the politics is what really matters to us here.
I say that because I firmly believe that until the science fully addresses those two questions above re: CO2 and the sun to universal satisfaction, that the science cannot be said to be settled and the planet is not threatened, whatever you warmaholics choose to hysterically believe.
At the same time, I’ve been watching the AGW political movement rise and rise since the beginning and believe me, if you understand your history, this is not something to ignore for it has the potential to become a much greater force in our lives than a mere carbon tax, and a mere carbon tax is bad enough in itself.
I just don’t want to go down as being like one of those people who stood by in England in the 30’s and did nothing, that’s all.
“..We thought it was one of the Earth’s last remaining regions of stable ice.
Now it seems the East Antarctic ice sheet has been losing mass since 2006 ..
.. and could become a significant source of sea level rise, according to data from gravity-measuring satellites.
Previous studies have suggested that the ice sheet was either stable or even gaining ice mass.
Now satellite measurements analysed by Jianli Chen of the Center for Space Research at the University of Texas at Austin and his colleagues ..
.. suggest that the East Antarctic ice sheet is losing at least 5 billion tonnes of mass each year.
“This paper provides the most accurate measurements to date of the current rate of mass loss from Antarctica,” says Eric Steig, a glaciologist at the University of Washington in Seattle..”
Inventory2 – almost the same thing happened with my cousin. She fell pregnant but was taking a certain drug that her doctor told her would make her child abnormal and she was offered the option of abortion. She struggled with this decision greatly (as one would). Eventually, she went and saw another doctor who told her that in no way whatsoever would the drug affect her pregnancy. She gave birth 9 months later to a perfect baby boy. If she had listened to her original doctor she would have aborted a perfectly healthy child.
I just don’t want to go down as being like one of those people who stood by in England in the 30’s and did nothing, that’s all.
That can work both ways. What if there is major climate problems? More than a few scientists and politicians don’t want to be “one of those people who stood by and did nothing”.
I will not “accept the science of evolution”. Please shove your thumb up your arse petey georgie gal, then bash yourself with a hockey stick you dropkick.
Pete, denialists just won’t admit that the hockey stick graph is valid. Just as they won’t admit that Jim Hansen’s 1988 testimony and predictions have withstood the test of time.
phil, you’re absolutely right, the Antarctic Ice Sheets are the one thing that scares me because the danger is, they’re the flying buttresses that keep the land ice from sliding into the sea.
For those who don’t know, Arctic ice melt is no worries for sea levels cause it floats. Antarctic ice IS a worry cause it sits on land. It’s kept in there by the massive ice shelves like the Ross, which perform the same function as those flying buttresses which the Masons used when they built all those stone Gothic cathedrals in Europe to keep the walls from falling down.
However phil – and I do apologise and withdraw for insinuating you were a cloth-cap socialist for you have never been one, I did it for effect – no-one has ever established to my satisfaction a cause-effect connection between the temp fluctuations we are currently experiencing and are acutely aware of, and man’s activities on the planet.
I’m not saying there isn’t one, I’m saying the jury is still out.
In other words, the massive massive fundamental massive huge significant world-changing lifestyle changes that warmaholics blithly advocate, are NOT necessarily required.
And to go charging into Copenhagen guns blazing for a global taxation system which once implemented can be later extended to almost anything at all including but not limited to global currency and global food distribution without good solid iron-clad evidence, does not seem to me to be the wisest possible course.
Wow that was a huge and viscous response David. I was going to write a response, but you know what after that response who cares.
After all the stuff has only been out there for 9 days, I do apologise. What a joke. People can have have cracks at others children here and it’s okay, but dont dare challenge the Nats. And there I was telling some-one today you are a nice guy who believes in balance… Wow.
Dad, your responses usually do indicate that rational debate is not your strong point. However, I will point out that the Hockey Stick graph was subjected to so much vilification that the US Congress initiated an enquiry into its validity.
Here you can download a four page pdf of the Report in Brief and have your mind put to rest.
Look under “Download for free” towards the centre of the page.
please don’t tell me you have formed an opinion solely on Wikipedia?
Course not, look for supporting and contrary views, Google is quite handy. But Wikipedia is often a good place to start, it has reasonable summaries of a lot of stuff.
In this case it goes over McIntyre & McKitrick, Wegman, the National Research Council Report, von Storch etc, and Mann’s update in 2008. It indicates that it is an ongoing issue with varying views supporting and against and is far from decided, as you would expect of research of this type.
How you are still here after your deplorable comment to kaya yesterday is beyond belief? Flash and co. said they would visit you tonight at home in Oxford, you creepy snake. I visit you tomorrow. That vile comment about that young girl has got the locals real mad. Why you are allowed to post here is criminal.
philu .. not hungry .. went to a asian place in Botany last night. 14 of us did the banquet option. not too many vegies but shit it was nice and plentyful, so much so that we took 8 “doggy bags” home between us. the sizzling beef was my fav.
I was driving so only had 3 beers which was a bummer but I have to do my bit eh
November 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
How you are still here after your deplorable comment to kaya yesterday is beyond belief? Flash and co. said they would visit you tonight at home in Oxford, you creepy snake. I visit you tomorrow.
I take it they were the plonkers who came to my drive, and turned tail and ran when they saw the dogs?
DPF – do you think this is an approprriate forum for threats of violence to be made? Do you condone or condemn these threats?
dad4justice (5556) 1 1 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
How you are still here after your deplorable comment to kaya yesterday is beyond belief? Flash and co. said they would visit you tonight at home in Oxford, you creepy snake. I visit you tomorrow. That vile comment about that young girl has got the locals real mad. Why you are allowed to post here is criminal
Reid and Chicken give up. Pete & Co will always be led by the so called Czars of science. Oh and by the way my bet is if there are 90 participants at Copenhagen instead of 60 then it is because they want to sign up to this madness before we (the plebs) really get angry. They will then say it is too late. But Pete & co will be happy little chapies wont they.
53 philu .. we had the death debate a month or so ago.
I’m sure you can go back and read what we said.
I lost my spull check when some mofo crashed my laptop last week and being dumb arse, I don’t know how to recover it .. may have to get the kids to do it. That may explain my “you are sounding particularly over-excited/incoherent..” way.
hope you are having a good/fun night.
ps .. I have cracked the odd woody today .. hic
Pete, I can’t work out who’s more dishonest – you or Phil Jones. Having been away for a few days and come back to catch up on this topic, I’d say that you have about 5% blood, and 95% agenda running through your veins. That you try to pretend otherwise would be hilarious if it weren’t so serious.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
You lefty filth are so dumb. Look borker wants me banned just like big blouse did the other day.
Not asking for you to be banned at all, simply asking DPF if he likes his blog being used as a vehicle for threats. Should anything happen to me there could well be repercussions for DPF, as well as for you as you have made your violent intentions quite clear, quite publicly.
Funny you say that, i was working on a retaining wall around Belmont because some dorks million dollar mansion was going to end up in the drink a few years ago.
Lets say we face a catastrophic ice melt of the arctic and antarctic circles leading to a rise of several meters in sea level what could we do about it? cutting back on emissions by 80% is not really an option. Beware of the cure Phillu it could be just as bad as the disease.
Good ol’ Pete – while everybody with the intelligence of a dead mouse and above a now realized how we have been led up the Garden Path by Climate Pseudo science he still vainly clings on the failed theory.
I have bad news for you Pete that particular catastrophe has been postponed.
On the other hand the catastrophe of destroying New Zealand’s productivity to line Al Gore’s and UN Kleptocrats pockets hasn’t.
Pete, You post here claiming I don’t have a position or positions to hold. It’s clear to me that you do. I’m certain it’s clear to everyone else here too. So why pretend otherwise? It just seems dishonest. A bit like the ’science’ you defend so staunchly.
Malcolm, sorry have been out on the piss. Farm usually uses between 2,000 Litres in winter to 30,000 in summer. No irrigation, These might seem like large figures but constitute about 1 minutes flow from water source
Oh dear, general debate has really turned to custard since DPF has been on his break. There are huge amounts of comments (usually from the same punters) but why so nasty? A bit of consideration by some of you for the intent of this forum would be fucking nice. Oh, and some moderation.
I am against taxation in general as it implies i have no right to what i work for and the government is allowing me to keep a portion of my income this is just my personal stance on taxation as of current.
I think you are missing it though, the Kansas shuffle so to speak, what would a global currency entail under the current financial institutions? the Western Nations already have a crooked system based on usury and fraud. Are we going to to extend this to a global scale? i could think of nothing worse to befall the nations of the world because then Phillu, then we will really be in the Merde.
What position do you and “everyone else” believe I hold?
Name one part of climate science I staunchly defend (apart from it being based on probabilities)?
Just because I question things doesn’t mean I staunchly believe in the opposite, far from it. There are a lot of uncertainties in climate science, I don’t see how anyone can staunchly defend any of it. Or staunchly oppose it.
Yeah you go phool, you run global food distribution, two bob. So your plan is to make us work then give our food ( produce ) away to socialist fuckheads. Yeah like that will work, just like food distribution worked in the USSR. The free market is the only way to go, of course people of your ilk want to clip the ticket because you are to fucking useless to figure out how to work.
I am NOT a violent thug. Yawn, yawn another bb attack from another keyboard coward. At least you have a common element with the vile borker. Can’t wait until we use real names.
Pete, surely if you have to question any part of climate change then can you subject the people to a tax and a system of government that will basically dictate the way you live your life?
D4J, you’re right, big bruv and I are one and the same. Not sure how you figured it out, but Alex always said you were the clever dick. Or was that limp dick, I can never remember.
“..what would a global currency entail under the current financial institutions? the Western Nations already have a crooked system based on usury and fraud. Are we going to to extend this to a global scale?..”
Luc, sorry but the hockey stick graph has been well discredited.
In fact, in 1996 the IPCC ‘Summary for Policymakers’ showed the correct graph which included the Medieval Warming, Little Ice Age and the Late 20th Century Warming periods (which shows what we know from history). The IPCC 2001 report however, expunged those periods and used Mann’s graph. After huge criticism and testing using Mann’s own data it was shown to be false. In the next IPCC report the Medieval Warming and Little Ice Age periods returned mysteriously and without explanation.
So you’re behind the times, LUC.
EVen the newest IPCC reports show the correct graph now, as far as historical periods of warming and cooling go.
Buzzzzzzzz, sorry phool wrong again. The system in it’s pure form works, it’s “government” ( ticket clippers ) that cause a lot of grief.Farmers like myself have to take what is left. Your outrage belongs to those that use food or any other consumable as leverage, this has nothing to do with capitalism but more to do with greed.
“Reid and Chicken give up. Pete & Co will always be led by the so called Czars of science.”
Good advice Lucy but I’m not talking to them, I’m addressing myself to people with OPEN minds….
Having said that…
“and how long do you think the jury should be allowed to stay ‘out’ for..?”
phil, when you look at temp change IN THE CONTEXT OF the geologic record, apparently, the planet isn’t in any immediate danger. The hysterical urgency engendered by warmaholics/MSM/globalists isn’t of any merit whatsoever, it’s transparent propaganda in the same way that people sell toothpaste using men in white coats, and you’ve fallen for it. In the context of the geologic record, we do have time to fully consider the proposition, and BTW, reasonable change in the form of scientific advancement is afoot as we speak.
Hysterical over-reactions are dangerous at any time, and this issue is in great danger of becoming one of those times. AGW global legislation is an epochal change for the entire world. We need to take a considered, not hasty perspective. We need to push back on the politicians and make sure they have covered all the bases and that needs years of debate. We haven’t had it.
I predict that Climategate will be swept under the carpet because the forces involved in this are too great to change the momentum, but that doesn’t invalidate my argument. I also predict that the world will come to rue Copenhagen if it enacts global taxation without representation. And whomever supported it at the time, should hang their heads in shame.
Reply to TimG_Oz 8.53am. Up and at it so early! Just for me
Tim, you began your post with this: Luc Hansen posted the following last week – [in the face of some heavy criticism from me]:
I’m sorry to disabuse you, Tim, but heavy criticism is not how I would describe your posts in reply to me. Dripping with visceral hatred for anyone who dares criticise your beloved Israel, yes. Replete with gratuitous insults such as Israel hater, Jew hater blah blah blah, yes. As I said in my last reply to you, rational debate is not what I have come to expect from you and many other posters on this site. However, if the moment is apt, I will not shrink from presenting an alternative view to that which emanates from Tel Aviv and the US.
And I remain informed by the eternal aphorism to the effect that there are always three versions of reality, yours, mine and the truth.
Anyway, I’m happy you followed the link to the interview. I did have minor quibbles with some of what Rosen postulated eg he retold that canard about Palestinians missing opportunities, seemingly balanced by saying that Israel has also missed opportunities. I think that is naive, or even just pro-Israel bias, which is to be expected, but his general tone was refreshingly free of diminishment of Palestinians as people deserving of justice.
Tim, you also said …then this flies in the face of a lot of what you have posted about Israel in your time here.
Tim, I don’t agree. I point out continually that the international consensus is the two state solution, based on the 1967 armistice line (with minor, mutually acceptable deviations). I also point out that in fact, and regardless of the propaganda continually spouted by Israel’s government, it is Israel that is the impediment to that settlement, not Palestinians.
I also point out that I believe in the long term, one state is inevitable, not via war, but simply to fulfill the demands of natural justice and international human rights principles. That’s just my opinion. Take it or leave it.
Pete – You post rafts of comments running down the arguments of anyone that doesn’t worship at the alter of climate change and then drop in a comment about having an open mind about the whole subject. IMO that’s simply dishonest, and a waste of electrons given the MSM already do a sterling job of promoting alarm and fear.
the number comes from a local soil scientist/climateologist..working on the water foot-print of various crops etc..(for the ‘gummint’..)
and it most certainly is for here..
Sorry Phil, that 200 litres per glass of milk number is rubbish. Side Show Bob, cheers. So SSB is using 30,000 litres per day. Stab in the dark and say he’s got 100 cows giving 20 litres/day each. So his farm uses at most 30,000 / (100 x 20 x 3) = 5 litres/glass of milk.
Maybe I’ve guessed wrong and SSB has 50 cows. So that would be 10 litres/glass. Or maybe he’s got 200 cows so only 2.5 litres/glass. Or maybe he has 50 cows and they only give 10 litres/day. So that would be 20 litres/glass.
Either way the 200 litres/glass sounds like rubbush, Phil. It might be true in a country where they irrigate (probably is), but it’s way over the top for New Zealand. Which might be why NZ is the largest dairy exporter in the world.
I know they use water at the processing plant, but you don’t use 180+ litres/glass.
Anyway, so don’t worry about the water. Have a nice glass of full cream.
Oh, Luc, your response is atypical to a closeted homosexual who, when asked, responds “No! I’m not gay! It’s a sick and vile practice and I don’t do any of it!”
Come on, Luc, let out your hatred. Did one of them stop you getting into art school?
Fair enough Phil. But SSB just confirmed what I had in mind from my time working on farms and market gardens. Many of which could only dream of having a water supply capable of supplying 2,400 tonnes of water per day.
Anyway, you must have thought it was good info and worth posting about. So get the basics behind the number from your friend. It should be possible to put it in a paragraph. Post it here.
I’m actually guessing you got it off the web. You can find numbers of 1000 litres/litre of milk on the web. But those figures are the extreme and from places where they irrigate. And that uses crazy amounts of water. You get similarly massive sounding amounts of water for irrigated crops like potatoes etc.
Anyway I’m going to have some lovely Fonterra Tip Top now. Cheers.
The fact that they have, with their continued support of Hamas and continuing Islamist and anti-semitic propagandising against Israel within children’s and indeed all media and their misuse of Western aid, proved themselves incapable of responsible self-government?
Oh wait, I forgot, any opposition is rooted in total hatred for moooooooooooooselms and whatnot. In a similar way that writing emails screaming about “[colour] motherfuckers” really isn’t racist but a justified expression of postcolonial rage against the privileged oppressor. Go oooooooooon, call me an Islamophobe. I hear your third life partner loved being called that whenever she changed the channel from the rugby.
getstaffed 10.28 IMO that’s simply dishonest, and a waste of electrons given the MSM already do a sterling job of promoting alarm and fear.
IMO it’s the deniers and the conspiracy theorists who are the alarmists.
And to Jules 9.09 who said I hear that the Aussies loudly rejected their ETS.
Sadly misinformed. It’s the Liberal Party (in opposition) who have a significant percentage of MPs in denial mode and are sending the party into a tailspin. If the bill fails to pass tomorrow, there will be a double dissolution and the Libs will get absolutely creamed. Australia is one of the early casualties of climate change and the general population is on to it.
hurf 11.00pm said The fact that they have, with their continued support of Hamas and continuing Islamist and anti-semitic propagandising against Israel within children’s and indeed all media and their misuse of Western aid, proved themselves incapable of responsible self-government?
At last, something reasonable decipherable.
First, what evidence do you have of “continued support of Hamas”? Initially, Hamas won power with a minority of votes, much as National did here a couple of times before MMP. Recent polls show Hamas doing badly. And the total membership of Fatah and Hamas combined in the occupied territories is around 60,000 out of some 3.5m people. Furthermore, your insinuation that Palestinians should be punished for those who belong to or voted for Hamas is against international law – it’s called collective punishment.
Second, the Hamas (Gaza, not in the West Bank to the same degree) propaganda you mention is a sad byproduct of over 60 years of dispossession, oppression and, since 1967, occupation. But bear in mind it cuts both ways: Israel censors it own history eg references to al Nakba are being expunged from history texts, Arabic names are being removed from towns and streets and Arabs in general suffer considerable discrimination in Israel. Prior to the influence of Zionism and anti-Semitic Europeans in Israel, anti-Semitism was not in Arab consciousness.
Thirdly, the misuse of western aid – don’t forget they receive significant aid from Arab countries too – is unjustifiable, but again this does not justify collective punishment. How many Israeli PMs have been tainted with corruption charges?
Finally, the slur of being incapable of responsible is not only racist, it is simply unproven. Quisling governments under occupation cannot be viewed in the same context as elected governments in a free society.
Hamas is National, now? Boy, Luc, you really are on the fringe.
is a sad byproduct of over 60 years of dispossession, oppression and, since 1967, occupation.
Don’t bother trying to justify it.
Arabs in general suffer considerable discrimination in Israel.
Ah yes, of course they do. That’s why they have the most democratic rights in all the Middle East. Those cursed Bedouin! (And no, Iran is not democratic, as much as their apologists wish to twist it as much.)
anti-Semitism was not in Arab consciousness.
Yeah, it was a more general “if you’re not one of us pay a tax” feeling. I wonder what they thought of those Zoroastrians?
the misuse of western aid – don’t forget they receive significant aid from Arab countries too – is unjustifiable, but again this does not justify collective punishment.
No, it doesn’t. It also means that they fail a crucial test vis-a-vis self-government. Imagine if Tuhoe became independent, got billions in aid and it turned out they spent that money on Iranian missiles? I don’t imagine National would be best pleased.
the slur of being incapable of responsible is not only racist
At last, the moneyshot! Because the ability to self-govern is inherently genetic- oh wait! No it isn’t. I’m sorry, are you saying that it is? Because that would be racist. You racist.
Quisling governments under occupation
That damned Abbas! A slave to the joooooooooooooz!
Phil, 200 litres/glass might be correct elsewhere in the world, but not NZ. No way. Unless they’re counting the rain (and even then it sounds high), but that’s nuts. You might as well count all the rain landing on NZ and divide that by the farming output. It’s meaningless.
I’ll have a look at the Listener. Does he actually say that NZ dairy farms + milk processing plants use 200 litres/glass of milk? Or is it just a factoid thrown in?
In my experience as a power engineer, if you read a number in a newspaper or magazine, it’s often incorrect or has incorrect units. Often because the journalist doesn’t have a feel for physical quantities or they get the units wrong or they try to convert a figure into a more meaningful units and cock it up. If I had a dollar for each time I’ve read about a 220 kA transmission line, or a 1000 kW power station, or a 33,000 kV power line, or this power station will produce 200 MW of energy per year. Well, I’d have a lot of money.
Has anyone ever heard of an Israelis climate change plan? Well, the Queen has endorsed the Commonwealth’s support and the PM has suggested it’s just another photo opportunity. He then decided to impose 100 billion dollars on the ordinary folks to sustain big polluters habits along with five Maori tribes!
Pete – You post rafts of comments running down the arguments of anyone that doesn’t worship at the alter of climate change and then drop in a comment about having an open mind about the whole subject. IMO that’s simply dishonest, and a waste of electrons given the MSM already do a sterling job of promoting alarm and fear.
I take it from this comment you can’t substantiate your accusation.
You post rafts of comments running down anyone who doesn’t worship at your alter of absolute denial. I have checked out claims you and your congregation of closed minds make and find most of them dubious at best.
You try to promote alarm and fear about global governments and scams for which you don’t even try to substantiate.
You cast aspersions on thousands of scientists.
And you again avoided my question, instead resorting to baseless attack again – name one part of climate science I staunchly defend.
Malcolm, don’t worry about phool he is mad as a maggot. Only milking around 170 cows at the moment, the thirty thousand litre figure is probably more correct for when I was milking more then 200 cows and this would also be on the hottest day in summer. The cows love their water but not as much as noddy would have you believe. He is talking through a hole in his arse.
Buzzzzzzzzzzz, wrong again tosspot, my totals included all water used on the farm THIS INCLUDES “WASTE” WATER. Put in big letters as I would hate you to get the wrong end of the stick,again. May I humbly suggest you send this top scientist an email and tell him he is full of shit and shouldn’t make shit up. And besides if you so despise the dairy industry I take it you will be handing the 30% of your DPB back as dairy farmers pay 30% of the tax but you won’t be doing that will you you hypocritical wanker.
Phil, I’m sure you’d agree it’s important to get this stuff right, if people are to understand what goes into their food. I’m not accusing you of deliberately putting out false info, but that number is plan wrong. For NZ at least.
SSB has just confirmed that his farm uses at most 30,000 / (200 x 3 x 10) = 5 litres/glass. Probably less as that is based on 10 litres/day in mid summer.
If dairying in NZ is more efficient than in many other countries, wouldn’t it be better that it’s done here where the cost is less? As cost correlates with environmental cost. Look at dairying in California. Irrigation galore. Pumped by electricity from (predominately) coal-fired power stations.
So go easy in NZ dairy farmers. They’re one of NZ’s few economic success stories of recent times and one of the few areas still growing. Other than welfare dependency, of course. And from an environmental POV they leave the rest in the dust.
And if SSB could just vote to float Fonterra, I’d put my money where my mouth is
If you pull a number out of context and present it as evidence that something is bad, then you need to stand by it a little, Phil.
I don’t have the listener to hand, but why don’t you just copy in the paragraph where that figure came from? That might make it clearer. I will look myself and if that guy is saying that for NZ milk then I will send him an email as I would love to see how he got such a massive number. And I’ll report back.
I’m not having a go at you personally. But it doesn’t help when stupid numbers get bandied around all out of context.
You post rafts of comments running down anyone who doesn’t worship at your alter of absolute denial.
Where? I ‘run down’ arguments, not people.
I have checked out claims you and your congregation of closed minds make and find most of them dubious at best.
Hope I ‘checked out’ ok. Did you hire a PI? As for my ‘congregation of closed minds’ …what the hell is that? I believed that global warming was happening three years ago. I researched, became suspicious, researched some more and have since come to the view that the science we’ve fed by the experts & MSM is agenda-driven junk-science. The CRU emails and code confirms this for me. Quite how this constitutes a ‘closed mind’ is a mystery.
You try to promote alarm and fear about global governments and scams for which you don’t even try to substantiate.
This isn’t about climate and it isn’t about saving the planet. That you can’t see the bigger picture here is a concern, given that you appear to be bright enough chap.
You cast aspersions on thousands of scientists.
Where did I do that? Phil Jones et al are responsible for key datasets used by the IPCC. These datasets have been doctored, falsified, withheld from peer review and then ‘lost’ (‘the dog ate my homework’). That other scientists have based their legitimate efforts on what now appears to be falsified junk-science is a travesty. It is Jones at al that are bringing the legitimate efforts of many scientists into disrepute.
And you again avoided my question, instead resorting to baseless attack again – name one part of climate science I staunchly defend.
On the balance of your plentiful comments it’s clear that you’re well entrenched in the belief that human caused climate change is leading us towards a global catastrophe. I’m sorry that you feel this assessment is baseless attack. I’m simply stating what I observe.
You may think it’s clear I’m “well entrenched in the belief that human caused climate change is leading us towards a global catastrophe.” If so you have not been observing very well. About as well you are observing world wide scientific research and observations perhaps, to fit your conspiracy theory.
You and a few are trying desperately to bring the efforts of many scientists into disrepute. For your accusations to be correct most scientists and politicians would have to be in on the same scam – for which you have still provided no evidence.
Phil Jones is responsible for some stupidity, but that doesn’t automatically negate everything he has been involved in, most studies on climate change are backed up by similar studies, and also backed by a lot of real world observations. And there is a lot more corroboration that his datasets have noting to do with.
You may think it’s clear I’m “well entrenched in the belief that human caused climate change is leading us towards a global catastrophe.” If so you have not been observing very well.
I’ve been observing quite well enough. You constantly knock back evidence which suggests that man-made climate change is not real, and then feign surprise when I observe that this casts you as a supporter of man-name climate change. Is it more comfortable declaring that you’re sitting on the fence, despite it being obvious that you’re not?
You and a few are trying desperately to bring the efforts of many scientists into disrepute.
Rubbish. It is Jones at al that are bringing their own profession into disrepute.
Phil Jones is responsible for some stupidity…
Phil Jones is not responsible for some stupidity. Jones, Mann and Biffra are responsible for deliberately falsifying data on which billions (trillions?) of dollars of current and future taxpayer money is to be spent. That is quite possibly criminal, as is the destruction of data prior to a FOI request. Further, their manipulation of the peer review process is an unethical pervasion of accepted scientific method. I’m more than a little alarmed that you classify these actions as ’some stupidity’.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:06 am
First let me offer an apology to Phecal Phool who seemed to be upset over my “House Nigger” comment from yesterday, this link may be of interest to you.
http://www.blacknla.com/news/articles/djinthehouse.asp
The esteemed coloured gentlemen I refer to, have been part of a process that sold out large numbers of other coloured gentlemen purely for financial gain, and in doing so helped our elected representatives to saddle our country with one of the worst pieces of legislation ever, the Emissions Trading Scam.
One must feel a degree of sorrow for Nick Smith as the architect of this rort, as he has only done what DonKey has told him to do, but when it all turns to shite it will all be Nicks fault, the Don not even having left a fingerprint to be found, which will leave Nick about as popular as a turd in a spa pool and the Don smelling like roses.
Probably the worst part of this process must be the National MP’s’, the rank and file, the ones we voted for a year ago, not one single one of these gutless, spineless, bottom feeders lifted his/her head from the trough to say there was anything even slightly wrong with this piece of legislation that was being rammed through parliament at hyper speed, even after serious questions were raised over the validity of some the raw data the ETScam was being based on, a pox on the lot of you.
The average Kiwi knows very little about this scam, but still manages to trust those he voted for are doing the right thing for him and helping to “save the planet”, and will remain ignorant of it until it starts biting them in their wallet.
Those of us that thought we may get a “breath of fresh air” from a change of govt, are now starting to work out it’s still the same fetid pong we have had for the last nine years.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:13 am
It’s worth checking out ….
The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition.
“Commonsense about Climate Change”
Links in header:
To help non-scientist visitors: LAYMAN’S GUIDE TO ‘GLOBAL WARMING’
http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html
- their front page Editorial: The Great Global Warming Hoax?
Sorry folks, but we’re not exactly buying into the Global Hysteria just yet.
‘DOOMSDAY CALLED OFF” – Video debunking claims of man-made global warming.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295
TAKE THE GLOBAL WARMING TEST – 10 QUESTIONS
http://csccc.fcpp.org/question.php?csquestion_id=1
They give a detailed sermon on each “question” response.
First “question”: Climate Change Is Real
True: While you are correct, you have been misled by media and government hype if you think the statement is meaningful.
False: Climate change is as “real” as Sunrise, gravity and supernovas in distant galaxies.
The question is meaningless (they asked the non-question): That is correct. The question is meaningless since climate always changes. Global cooling is a far greater threat to humanity than warming and we appear to be entering a cooling phase that is expected to continue at least to 2030. Unfortunately, world governments are preparing solely for warming.
About us and why
Coalition’s mission:
To represent accurately, and without prejudice, facts regarding climate change; to provide considered opinion on matters related to both natural and human-caused climate effects; and to comment on the economic and socio-political consequences of climate change.
The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition was formed in April 2006 by a group of New Zealanders who are concerned at the misleading information being disseminated about climate change and so-called anthropogenic (man-made) global warming. The Coalition is committed to ensuring that New Zealanders receive balanced scientific opinions that reflect the truth about climate change and the exaggerated claims that have been made about anthropogenic global warming.
You can make your own mind up how balanced they are.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Dont you think that NZ entering into an ETS is not so much about saving our Planet but saving our trade?
That said go Australia and their revolt against their own ETS. Lets hope it spreads and we see an inquiry into the accuracy of the information submitted by the Hadley CRU.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Hi all,
Be very afraid. This is why islam will crush Europe.
Click on the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9BPH32tJKI&feature=related
November 29th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Interested to know how many of the regular anti-AGW posters here generally accept the science of evolution?
Thumb up if you do, thumb down if you are more into creation.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Stamp Recall
Postal Service Recall
New Zealand Post created a stamp with a picture of Maori Politician, Hone Harawira.
The stamp was not sticking to envelopes.
This enraged Hone, who demanded a full investigation.
After a month of testing and spending of $1.5 million of tax payers money,
A special commission presented the following findings:
1. The stamp is in perfect order.
2. There is nothing wrong with the adhesive.
3. People are spitting on the wrong side of the stamp
November 29th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Swiftman
Thanks – and don’t forget there are 63,000 of them here, that they are targetting Maori, and that they have the niave and blinkered-support of Lock, Minto et al.
We aint see nothing yet.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Indeed Komata – and they are already going into the prisons seeking converts – the thoughts of gangs becoming a rallying point for Islam is somewhat frightening.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Over on Andrew Bolts Blog
“Frank J. Tipler, professor of mathematical physics at Tulane University, on the true significance of Climategate:
The now non-secret data prove what many of us had only strongly suspected — that most of the evidence of global warming was simply made up. That is, not only are the global warming computer models unreliable, the experimental data upon which these models are built are also unreliable. As Lord Monckton has emphasized here at Pajamas Media, this deliberate destruction of data and the making up of data out of whole cloth is the real crime — the real story of Climategate.
It is an act of treason against science. It is also an act of treason against humanity, since it has been used to justify an attempt to destroy the world economy.”
Says it all really doesnt it?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Poor Phil Goff can do nothing right. Hope he stays Labour leader forever.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-news/opinion/3106380/Goff-taking-Labour-in-a-cheap-and-nasty-direction
November 29th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Luc Hansen posted the following last week – [in the face of some heavy criticism from me]:
He’s speaking in Melbourne tomorrow night at LaTrobe University. I’d love to go – pending time & kids etc.
I listened – it was a good interview.
He won’t be accused of naivety, ignorance, even anti-Semitism – the he’s extremely well respected by Jews. Synagogues here are promoting his visit. Does that surprise you?
The fact is that (and he says this in his radio interview) that 70% of Jews and Israelis agree with his philosphy. He believes that the 2 state solution is the only solution, and it’s achievable.
So if you agree with his views – that are so well respected as the middle ground, then this flies in the face of a lot of what you have posted about Israel in your time here.
Do you maintain your position, or do you want to disagree with him now?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Oh and by the way the same comments should be made about the disgrace that is NIWA
November 29th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Recall of Harawira stamp
People do not spit on stamps – if they are non-adhesive, they LICK them.
Truth may be people just can not bring themselves to lick Hone’s backside.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Peter – thanks for your post about Climate Change. I went and did the quiz which was most revealing. I have been complaining about how unbalanced the reporting in the NZ Herald is and how I wished for some ‘other’ reading, and you have provided it. And not just my own answers to the quiz, but also looking at the explanations about the other choices in the multichoice.
Its all just political isn’t it. We don’t have the ‘cold war’ anymore so we invent another ‘global’ debate.
I do think its interesting that in NZ we have Chris De Freitas (is that how you spell it) vs Jim Salinger ex NIWA. I listen to both of them, but the recent email unveiling, and the ‘withheld’ evidence? has shaken my perceptions.
I do think that our print press is irresponsible in their hyping up of issues out of all proportion and forcing them to become contentious, just to sell newspapers viz climate change.
I hear that the Aussies loudly rejected their ETS. And ours is so pathetic, that if I was Key I would be embarrased by it. However maybee its for the best, and they can repeal it soon.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Lucy – I have read Chris De Freitas on glaciers not receeding, but what’s your take on those pix we see on TV with the Antartic ice shelf falling into the sea?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Scum like Brown and the fools at the commonwealth conference couldn’t give a fat rats arse about climate gate, it was never about saving the world. This was just a convenient excuse, many of these crooks have come to far and have to much invested to back down. They will continue with their plans for a one world government and the advancement of socialism and eventual totalitarianism. Is there enough political power left with those that see this for the evil piece of shit that it is and kill it, I fear there is not.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:18 am
1) Here is the position of the ‘Green’ party on islam. Be very afraid:
http://www.greens.org.nz/search/apachesolr_search/islam
2) The islamics have a stall at Avondale market including the koran in Maori
3) Radical islamics preaching in our prisons
4) Halal meat in our prisons
November 29th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Jules.
Check this site out.
http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm
November 29th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Bewdy – a third try to the All Blacks – great scrum pressure from Tialata
November 29th, 2009 at 9:26 am
It’s cool Side Show Bob.
Gordon brown wants a global surveillance network in the form of satellites to make sure country’s aren’t cheating on their carbon emissions, straight from the book of revelations that mad man is.
Get you a gun.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Peter I did the global warming quiz. (Unfortunately I got 2 wrong so only 8/10) it should be compusory for all politicians!!!!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Jules
Ice falls into the sea. It has been doing it for millions of years and it will continue to do so for many more. It is unbalanced scaremongering.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:35 am
22 – 12 to the AB’s – 3 tries. Beautiful!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Bloody sky not going! Aarrrg. Does anyone know
November 29th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Amazing. An exciting open rugby test with tries. So far. The score is a real bonus.
The best test by far this year to watch
November 29th, 2009 at 9:38 am
if there is a radio station online doing commentary?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Doug – thanks, ’twas Artic, any data on the Antartic.
Lucy, I got 7/10 bummer.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Found it. Phew!
Go radio sport!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:46 am
who cares about the Thugby
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Not boasting, but scored 10/10. Everyone should get 10/10. If you don’t know a correct answer, assume the biases of the quiz setters and use that as the basis of the answer. Not rocket science, just observation.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:49 am
XCheguer if sky not going kill the power for about 10 seconds and let the Sky box reboot, should fix problem.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Pete – absolutely agree. Who said test rugby has to be a kickfest?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Got warming issues??
http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=917&p=26450#p26450
http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135&p=26449#p26449
November 29th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Jules:
Read this.
http://www.ecoworld.com/climate/the-real-facts-on-increasing-antarctic-ice.html
November 29th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Jules (13) Vote: 0 0 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 9:46 am
who cares about the Thugby
Not me Jules, not me.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:59 am
billyborker (864) 0 1 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Not boasting, but scored 10/10. Everyone should get 10/10. If you don’t know a correct answer, assume the biases of the quiz setters and use that as the basis of the answer. Not rocket science, just observation.
What is it about the left? You cant even take a quizz with honesty but make up the answers so you can ‘win’ at all costs. But we are not supprised it seems to go with the socalist mind set ay billy?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Doug, I see Al Bore had to flee a book store signing the other day in Chicago, seems the snake oil salesman didn’t like the hostile crowd and fled out a back door and jumped into a waiting limo. The crowd was yelling words like charlatan and bullshitter, sounds like a high class crowd to me.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:06 am
What would you expect Lucy? Billyborker advocates aborting anyone that doesn’t meet his definition of acceptable.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:06 am
On more important things than billyborker – what an outstanding individual try by Cory Jane – pure genius!
November 29th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Lucy, its got nothing to dow tih being left right or homosexual. It is about looking at who constructed the quiz and why. It is called cold reading, the same sort of thing that “psychics” do, something I do well, although I claim no paranormal powers.
And what’s wrong with being a socialist? It is a great way to view the world, although it does often get you in to bed with strange bedfellows. You see, I’m a climate change sceptic, but keep finding my bed full of denialists.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Dear me, the nutters have taken over.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Inventory2 (3746) Vote: 0 0 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 10:06 am
What would you expect Lucy? Billyborker advocates aborting anyone that doesn’t meet his definition of acceptable.
And why not? Why do you want MORE retards when we have the means to have far fewer?
I suppose you’re in the same camp as the deaf parents who don’t want a hearing child.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Billy wouldnt you be ‘better off’ with your own kind? Other sceptics. Or dont they want you either?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Looks like the Nats have fucked up again. The list is growing almost daily. One wonders if they did anything in their 9 years in opposition for they didn’t learn much about principles.
the Justice System’s next corrupt treatment of Scott Watson:
Re: The Aristocracy Confirmed
In October 2008 Scott Watson petitioned the Governor General for a pardon. He included copies of Trial By Trickery and Murder on The Blade? with his petition as the documentation providing grounds for it. The Governor General passed the application to the Minister of Justice, who in April appointed a QC to inquire into the case and provide an advisory report on it. This note relates to that appointment and its present outcome.
Everyone familiar with my book or film will be aware that it is crucial for the inquiry to address the conduct of several high-ranking members of the New Zealand justice system. Saving the late Richard Heron, all of these people have been invited to explain their conduct as described in the book. None has taken the opportunity and their silence can convey only the obvious meaning. They are the present Deputy Commissioner of Police (Rob Pope), the Crown Prosecutors Davison, Crutchley and Raftery, trial judge the late Justice Heron, and the three judges of the Court of Appeal, Richardson, Gault and Henry. The first requirement of the inquiry is therefore that it must be conducted by a qualified person who has no prior association with any of these people. Any lawyer with any of the following backgrounds must be disqualified from appointment:
• A history as a Crown Prosecutor or association with the Crown Law Office in Wellington. This is particularly relevant since at the time of Watson’s trial until 2006 prosecutor Nicola Crutchley was the Deputy Solicitor General (Criminal), the Crown Law official whose function was to approve and appoint Crown Prosecutors;
• An obvious relationship with the police, particularly with its upper echelons.
• A connection with Christchuch legal circles in the 1980’s and 1990’s, since Deputy Commissioner of Police Rob Pope spent all of his early career as a policeman there.
Obviously no lawyer at all can report on the conduct of the Court of Appeal except to find that the conduct needs address by a superior process.
The lawyer Minister Simon Power appointed to conduct the inquiry into Scott Watson’s conviction is Ms Kristy McDonald QC.
• Ms McDonald has been a crown prosecutor for almost 30 years, starting in Christchurch in the 1980s. It is reasonable to assume that she prosecuted cases in that city brought by Mr Pope and that they have an association going back to that time.
• Ms McDonald is still a Crown Prosecutor. Now she is in Wellington, where she has continual contact with the Crown Law Office. From the mid-nineties to 2006, each time she was appointed prosecutor to a criminal case her appointment was made by Deputy Solicitor General Nicola Crutchley and she was responsible to the Crown Law Office as her employer. It would be remarkable if Ms McDonald avoided a close professional and personal relationship with Ms Crutchley during the years of their association as Crown Prosecutors and as employer and employee in the same city.
• Another of Ms McDonald’s major employers is the Police Force. She has acted as counsel for the police for many years and conducts internal inquiries for them. In 2004 she acted as counsel for the police in a major public inquiry. She has acted as counsel to the Commissioner of Police.
• It is impossible for Ms McDonald not to have an ongoing personal and/or professional association with Deputy Commisssioner Pope dating back perhaps twenty-five years, and impossible for her to have no bond with the institution of the Police. There is no QC in New Zealand who has greater access to, association with, and both personal and professional links with the upper echelons of the police than Ms McDonald. There is no QC in New Zealand who might better be described as a ‘police lawyer’ than Ms McDonald.
• Ms McDonald has other government appointments. She has chaired the Mental Health Review Tribunal and was a member of the Removal Review Authority. In 2008 she was appointed chairwoman of the Judicial Control Authority for Racing. Just four weeks before awarding her the Watson inquiry the Minister appointed her chair of the Real Estate Agents Authority. It would appear that there are few “independent” lawyers in New Zealand more obliged to the “System” for lucrative employment than Ms McDonald. She appears to be a political pet .
The appointment is cynical in the extreme. Barrring Paul Davison, there is no QC in New Zealand more ineligible for this inquiry than Ms McDonald.
More at; http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=162&p=26460#p26460
November 29th, 2009 at 10:17 am
If you are an example of a socialist than all I can say is God save us all from socialists.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:21 am
SSB; I see the same treatment has been handed out to Rod Pertrevic when he went to dine in Remmers. Apparently He isn’t very well liked by the locals. Wonder why??
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3106541/Angry-investors-rough-up-Bridgecorp-boss
Is this a test of the provocation Law that no longer exists. Had someone banged him on the head like they did Vercoe the other day, and Petrevic had carked it, would provocation be a fair defence??
November 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Let me tell you a little true story billy. Many years ago, before my second child was conceived, I was on a form of chemotherapy for a blood disorder. When we found out that a child was on the way, we were advised that there was a possibility of a genetic disorder, and advised by my haematologist to have an amniocentesis test. We met with the gynaecologist who told us of the possible implications, then said something profound – “Are you prepared to act on the test results if there is an abnormality found?”. After much discussion, we flagged the test, and were rewarded with a beautful baby girl. She’s just finished her first year at university, and has a wonderful life ahead of her.
Everyone has a right to life billy – that’s my absolute belief. I respect your right to hold a different belief, but not to ram it down someone’s throat in a cruel and callous manner as you did yesterday. That was, IMHO, contemptible.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Dubai SOE almost defaulted on $60B , time for a bailout??
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091127/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/us_wall_street
Im suprised DPF didn’t report on this considering he was there
If you got some time, read this also:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
November 29th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Now who still doesn’t think that Henry should be the AB’s coach???
I think he has shut you South Islanders up now.
how many has your wonderful Deans won this year??
November 29th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Is it not ironic that billyborker “with his lack of empathy” would have been aborted under his own rules as being a “retard”.
Those without empathy must be retarded.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:28 am
I think its funny how the opinion on the ABs sways so much, its like they lose one game, and everyones out for blood, they win another, and its “Now who still doesn’t think that Henry should be the AB’s coach???”
NZ’ers need to learn the significance of long term results , before passing such judgements
November 29th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Michaels – after South Africa, I was calling for Henry’s head. But since the coaches has a realighnment, the AB’s performances have improved markedly. I was wrong. That was a terrific performance this morning.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Quite right V2, probably why the politicians are so keen to dump this law, perhaps they are thinking of the future, theirs. When Kiwis wake up and realise they have been sold down the river big time politicians may need to go on the endangered species list.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:35 am
http://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/recycling-asprin-for-hangover-of-over-consumption/
November 29th, 2009 at 10:47 am
I2 I agree, the reassigning of coaches seems to have refreshed their approach. The were obviously playing for safe results most of this tour but chose to go for it against the French and it all came off. A lot of great performances. Jane always looks dangerous. I think Conrad Smith changes the backline, he had a great game on attack and defence. Lineout has transformed over the season. Cowan had a much better game, The all played well. Gotta enjoy it when it all comes together.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Trying to link Climategate to denying Evolution is the new smear.
The ramifications of this are so huge my head hurts.
Tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars of public and private money (mostly public – down to a local level) has been spent on this ‘problem’ worldwide. Imagine if that had been spent on true environmental problems.
There’s a new denier game coming your way very soon and it’s not going to be pretty. Re-invention will be the name of the game in the coming months.
I’m assuming the taxpayer will end footing the bill for that to.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:59 am
So called Climategate seems to be working quite well, it gives the conspiracy crowd something to get excited about while the real world checks, adjusts as necessary and carries on as usual. There could never be one killer blow to something as diverse as climate science, but it gives the unbelievers a chance to believe they have won something.
It has been one small setback for some scientists, but it’s far from a giant negating of all science.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:06 am
On the Climategate or global warming fraud finding where all our soon to be stolen money to pay for this pyramid fraud is going and who’s pockets beside Albullshit Gore….. http://newsbusters.org/node/11149
November 29th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Just listened to Kennedy Graham, David Wratt and Tim Groser debate Climate change on National Radio.
Kennedy and David are in agreement with moi that the ETS National passed is a joke, and doesn’t even begin to address the issue. We might get brownie points for having an ETS but its a claytons one.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday (You have to listen)
November 29th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Inventory…… Why is it that so many Kiwi’s have this meantality…. lose one match, two even more so and the coach must go??
We are NEVER going to win every game. Why can’t we simply look at the stats of a season and decide then.
Henry would be the most successful rugby coach in the game and moving himself to the forwards has certainly proved that to be the case. Now just wait till Ali returns next season.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Yes Pete, now take two aspirin and have a nice wee lie down least your head explodes, dreaming up different ways to defend this bullshit, it must be taxing (pun intended).
November 29th, 2009 at 11:12 am
scanner lets have some fun, you trot along and call Hone a House nigger and I will video the results for you tube.
That should be amusing.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Hey side show bob – don’t be mean to Pete.
Let’s keep this thread seemly.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Michaels – it wasn’t just the losses – it was the manner of the losses. The AB’s looked rudderless during the first half of the Tri-Nations. They have improved markedly as the season has dragged on, and without doubt turned in their best 80-minute effort today.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Jules
In a short time the world will work out that Global Warming is a hoax. and the ETS will be cast into history.
We might get brownie points for having an ETS but its a claytons one.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Pete George – Quite true, I am in no way denying that the climate changes.
However, what I think is going to become clear in the next couple of years is that C02 is not the driver and in fact plays a very minor role in regards to C02 produced by man causing change.
How much of that hundreds of billions has been used towards mitigating C02? 80%?
I have a feeling that no matter what you see or read you will hold your position against all evidence to the contrary.
That’s fine. Have a nice day.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Exactly. I expect that the All Blacks will lose matches on occasion. It was the often bizarre position choices made by Henry, the handling errors and lack of focus that were the hallmark of the opening season that were causing upset. Plus weird strategic choices- like not telling the team the margin they needed to retain the Gallagher cup when France toured NZ.
I would like to see some more evidence that we have hit a turning point before I rejoin the Henry fan club.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Inventory2 (3749) Vote: 6 0 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Let me tell you a little true story billy. Many years ago, before my second child was conceived, I was on a form of chemotherapy for a blood disorder. When we found out that a child was on the way, we were advised that there was a possibility of a genetic disorder, and advised by my haematologist to have an amniocentesis test. We met with the gynaecologist who told us of the possible implications, then said something profound – “Are you prepared to act on the test results if there is an abnormality found?”. After much discussion, we flagged the test, and were rewarded with a beautful baby girl. She’s just finished her first year at university, and has a wonderful life ahead of her
What’s your point? By the sound of it, the test would have been negative, therefore the oiytcome would have been the same.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
So Jules, out of curiousity, are you a member of the Greens party, and what makes you an expert on the ETS?
November 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Any takers..how long before one of the famous cabal breaks rank and cuts a deal..with ever increasing calls for congressional investigations..not long..probably breaking the DA’s door down as i write..
November 29th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I think you are dead wrong on this. I don’t have a position or positions to hold. Points I have made repeatedly:
- I’m not an expert and keep looking for expert opinions and indicators
- this is ongoing science with a lot to be learnt yet
- there will be mistakes made and readjustments of probabilities
- there is as likely to be as many underestimations as there are over estimations
- I have always been dubious about the benefits of the ETS
I do point out the totally unsupported claims of hoaxes and world governments. Not even the CRU release gave any credence to these.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
This is great: Climategate could end Obama’s Cap & Trade… [bit in bold is what we should have done to Hulun's lightbulb law]. I’ve quoted the whole lot cause it’s so good.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
LUC
where are you?
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/three-things-you-absolutely-must-know-about-climategate/
I can’t stop thinking about you
November 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
’sticky-fact’ of the day..
(def:’sticky-fact’:..one you won’t forget in a hurry..)
it takes 200 litres of water..to make one glass of milk…
(see what i mean..?..about ’sticky’..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
And phool uses 400 litres of bong water per week when smoking sticky buds
November 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
so..standing behind that glass of milk..
is 200 litres of water..
(all of which goes ‘down the toilet’..)
much pollution..
and much pain and suffering..
(all in just one glass of milk..!..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
sorry, how many litres of water was that little pica pica nostradementus?
… wardle awdle skip hop peck ..
November 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
@ billyborker 11.35am
The point is this billy. We could have found out that our child-to-be wasn’t going to be perfect, and had her aborted. We chose not to, and to take whatever we were given. By the grace of God we were gifted a glorious child; had the dice rolled differently, we wouldn’t have cherished her any less at all.
But then with your black and white approach, and your quest for perfection, I don’t for one moment expect you to understand.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Here’s an outrage if I ever saw one –
Stuff – Anger over prison Methadone
Apparently the crims get to choose whether or not they would like to continue to maintain their habit – at the taxpayer’s expense.
“Corrections’ acting national health manager Deb Alleyne said prisoners were provided with “support and encouragement” to reduce their intake of methadone, or come off it, but ultimately the decision was theirs.”
Well…
You’d think that if some scum entered prison addicted, they’d be told they’re going to be put on a treatment programme, and then someone would have the fortitude to carry through and make sure they left prison clean.
None of this namby-pamby “support and encouragement” nonsense.
I’m absolutely flabbergasted.
What kind of sick, twisted mind would think it perfectly reasonable to continue to provide an addict with their drug of choice? It’s illegal, and it harms everyone – you’d think they’d try wean them off it!
Nuts.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
da vinci..rip..
go..!
seek..!
sign-up..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
rufus..methadone is a living hell..
and is more addictive than heroin…
(methadone ‘cold turkey will/can kill you…heroin ‘cold turkey won’t..
and turns people into zombies..
shackled to a horrible/nasty drug..
no fun at all..!
(so disabuse that ‘fun’-notion..!..eh..?..)
solution:..?
tranfer them frommethadone to the much ‘cleaner’/less-addictive morphine..
and then wean down from there..
with a brace of support to try and find/sort out why they are there in the first place..
(as is done in those countries most successful at containing narcotic-abuse
i’m not re-inventing the wheel here..the schema is all out there..
the schema is all out there..(c.f.:..’successful’ countries..)
(oh..!..and jail is no ’solution’..
for too many reasons to list..
not least of which/dear to all your hearts..cost to the taxpayer..
the current policies are moronic..and a dead-end..
(literally..as they create a walking-dead..
the ‘methadoned’..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
how come my mates at Redalert don’t want to talk about the Huntly East Miners strike?
and Michaels can’t wait to see Ali back
November 29th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
There’s a tendency here to assume that because some of what philu says wouldn’t look out of place in Lewis Carroll, it’s safe to disregard everything he says. That would be foolish, especially when he’s talking about something with which he has had experience which few of us can match.
Case in point: he is absolutely right (@3.33pm) with regard to methadone.
In Australian (I’m not sure about NZ) addicts are treated with suboxone, a much “cleaner” opiate, mixed with a substance which makes it pointless for them to take additional heroin.
[I too think morphine is a much better option in a controlled environment like a detox centre but unfortunately it's street value makes it problematic. Suboxone is basically worthless on the street].
But when an addict commits a crime and is imprisoned they are forced onto methadone – a drug which, as phil correctly says, is far more addictive than heroin and has some pretty nasty side effects. And ironically, because it can be taken along with other opiates, addicts do sell their doses.
Corrections are doing prisoners no favours giving them methadone – they are in fact worsening their addiction and thus increasing the chances they will reoffend on release.
And while it’s a well-accepted truism of drug therapy that nothing will work unless an addict has reached a place in their own mind where they want to be rid of their addiction, Rufus (@ 3.23) does have a partial point.
In my experience Corrections offer absolutely no encouragement to an offender to reduce their methadone during their time in jail beyond simply asking them if they’d like to. Sure they allow Narcotics Anonymous, Prison Fellowship and other groups in, and they do their best, but Corrections could support their efforts in numerous ways and choose not to – for instance grouping together prisoners who want to get clean, offering them increased privileges over time as a reward for reduction, and better conditions once they’re entirely clean.
Why should we? Simply because if we eliminated addiction from society crime would plummet and we’d all be safer, which seems to me reason enough.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Now call me suspicious but…
Is our host slipping into the hand puppet mode that we saw the standard and other lefty blogs slipped into during Hellens reign?
Around the world and even on his own blog, the biggest news is in fact what is now called Climategate. And National, under urgency rushed through their ETS (Dont give me the “to replace the Labour’s dogs breakfast scheme… it could have been simply repealed if they were really worried) And only one little comment from Farrar. And dont give me the “not have had time to read it” nonsense , there is entries on a stripper in NZ nominated for BWY and of Catholic girls and Phil Goff etc.
David I realise that this is your blog and you can do what you want, however you were always quick to point out when left blogs were quiet about things you thought important. Maybe a bit of honesty?
[DPF: Are you a moron? Have you not noticed I have not posted anything for two to three days except two quick 5 minute posts earlier today when I finally got online again. Are you not aware I am overseas? Did you not see me say I would not be blogging much?
Fuck you piss me off with stupid shit like this.]
November 29th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
maybe ‘cos ‘climategate’..(as you spin it)..
is..in the grand scheme of things..
irrelevant..?
(psstt..!!..i think dpf may have had his ‘oh shit!’-moment..
(at what we all face..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
It’s almost certainly no coincidence that the CRU release has happened coming up to Copenhagen. It reveals a few scientists playing with matches, it’s far from a forest fire. But it highlights a number of issues that would benefit from being publicised and examined. Can’t do much about it worldwide from here but we could at least look at it in NZ, especially in light of NIWA research being thrown into the Climategate pot.
I would support the idea of a public inquiry. That would take time – in the meantime it makes sense to stick with the status quo ie go with the generally accepted weight of evidence and proceed with the ETS and with Copenhagen. If it ends up costing us a bit of money, well, it’s only money versus the good of the earth and the human race. Most people see the worth in spending money on insurance, this is like an insurance policy (albeit with unproven benefits).
The enquiry should ideally look at all aspects of the climate change issue including:
- how does NIWA data and research stand up
- the weight of climate research supporting the current policies
- the weight of evidence against
- if there is any evidence of collusion (scientists and politicians) in a scam or plot to use climate change to put a world government in place
I know this is not going to happen, but if something like that took place I’d be happy to go with the outcome of it.
An indeterminate number of people picking bits out of websites of doubtful quality to support often extreme views (both ways) just clouds the issue with amateur smoke.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Rubbish. I assume that doesn’t include rain water which falls on the farm? So if I have 200 dairy cows, each producing 20 litres/day, then between the farm and the milk processing plant we’re using 200 * 20 * 3 * 200 = 2,400 tonnes of water per day? (assuming a generous glass size of 333 ml).
Where did that number come from? I suspect it’s from a very dry place where they need to irrigate extensively. Certainly not New Zealand.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Phil’s not known for a slaveish devotion to the truth Malcolm
November 29th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
“maybe ‘cos ‘climategate’..(as you spin it)..is..in the grand scheme of things..irrelevant..?”
Oh yes phil, you and the rest of the globalists would really like that, wouldn’t you. You evil bastards who want to enslave the word with global laws that do nothing but oppress the masses, would love Copenhagen to succeed, wouldn’t you?
Damn you people make me furious. You’re so blatantly evil and oppressive, going against every vestige of human right and freedom and yet you claim to “weally weally care [foot stamp].”
Newsflash phil, some of us have NEVER been fooled by your humanitarian smokescreen. Some of us have ALWAYS known you and your ilk are just downright plain pure and simple evil.
So there.
Seriously phil, since you claim you don’t like capitalism and are on the side of people, etc; how come you and the Greens are totally in bed with the globalists on this issue?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I don’t blame Phil. You can find a lot of info on the web about very large amounts of water per kg or litre of food. I’m pretty sure most of those numbers come from places where they irrigate like mad. NZ dairying by and large isn’t like that.
Side Show Bob: how much water do you use on your farm per litre of milk?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
One week on and Climategate is still a major scandal.
“Go away! Go away!” Mann and Phool cry, but yet it will not. Maybe they would use Gordon Brown’s CO2 spotting satellite to find the perpetrators and BRING THEM TO JUSTICE.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
“It reveals a few scientists playing with matches, it’s far from a forest fire.”
Yeah, that’s the line the MSM is desperately playing Pete, in the hope it will just go away. An observable fact that should give pause for thought to more than a few who for some reason, STILL think that, despite the mountains of evidence (e.g. Iraq war build-up, lack of info on where the bailout money’s going, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.) the MSM Fourth Estate play a straight hand.
Funnily enough, thanks to the internet, it’s not.
How inconvenient for the warmaholics.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Reid, which do you think is the more cunning conspiracy, climate change or 911?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
“..Where did that number come from? I suspect it’s from a very dry place where they need to irrigate extensively. Certainly not New Zealand..”
the number comes from a local soil scientist/climateologist..working on the water foot-print of various crops etc..(for the ‘gummint’..)
and it most certainly is for here..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
“Reid, which do you think is the more cunning conspiracy, climate change or 911?”
I think they’re both very cunning, malcolm. What makes me laugh is that many, even perhaps most people, apparently only see one or the t’other.
How dumb is that?
But I wouldn’t call 911 a conspiracy, because I don’t know what happened. All I know is that the full story has not yet been told.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
had a bit of a ‘meltdown’ there..reid..
can i suggest a cuppa tea..and a wee lie-down..?
and the ‘evil’ ones aren’t the ones actually fucking the planet/our futures..?
it’s the ones trying to stop them..?
who knew?/go figure..!..etc..etc..
but anyway..put the kettle on..!..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
“..Seriously phil, since you claim you don’t like capitalism ..”
where/when did i say that..?
seriously reid..i thought better of you..
than to try and cloth-cap-socialist me..”
..eh..?
they are/were as dirty/polluting as the west..maybe even more so..
reid..isn’t it way past time to put yr cold-war fantasies/meme to bed..?
eh..?
you’re sounding like fucken redbaiter…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
“and the ‘evil’ ones aren’t the ones actually fucking the planet/our futures..?”
phil, you still haven’t answered the question. How come, you, the environmentalists who weep and wail about the planet. and the Greens; are all in bed and in lockstep with the evil cabal of globalist politicians and bankers who want to enslave the world by enacting global legislation that destroys national sovereignty?
Both they and you guys are really keen on Copenhagen. What’s the matter. Didn’t you know that, or do you just not want to admit that you’ve hitched your wagon to a bunch of people against whom you consistently rail: i.e. the Wall Street Bankers, et al?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
That’s the sort of quote that makes it difficult for people who have legitimate queries about climate change issues to be taken seriously.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
So you haven’t looked at the agenda then Pete? You’d rather not look at the consequences of global wealth-transfer legislation?
It’s called foresight.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
“..who want to enslave the world by enacting global legislation that destroys national sovereignty?.”
um..!..i mean..!..where to start..?
who is actually running this conspiracy..?..
and yes..’global legislation’..?
there is already a fair bit of that around..
didn’t you notice..?
and ‘national soverignty’..eh..?
is that the right to fuck yr neighbors/the global environment..?
don’t think so..!
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
At least 9-11 conspiracies don’t have many contradictory scapegoats.
I wonder how the Greens, communists, capitalist bankers, world wide politicians and all scientists apart from a few heroic ones can agree on this dastardly plan yet keep it completely secret except for a few people that don’t want to do anything about the climate just happen to “know” about it.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
“and ‘national soverignty’..eh..?”
Point is phil, there has never been a global taxation system where individual countries don’t get to decide their own rates.
Second point phil, is that until the hugely significant questions of
(a) whether CO2 is really a greenhouse gas and
(b) precisely what influence does the sun have on geologic temp fluctuations;
are settled, we don’t know whether the planet is fucked, or not.
So we’re being driven by MSM-promoted global hysteria based on questionable science to implement a regime capable of imposing a hugely variable international taxation system. Glad to hear you’re quite sanguine about that, but I’m not.
“t least 9-11 conspiracies don’t have many contradictory scapegoats.”
Yes, try not to dissemble too hard, pete. I’ve never said 911 is a conspiracy, I’ve only ever said the official story is complete and utter bollocks which a ten-year-old could see through. That’s all I’ve said.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Rufus
You raise a great point @ 3.23.
Why the hell should we be providing junkies with methadone, come to think of it, why the fuck are we providing them with anything at all?
Lock the bastards in a cell, let them go cold turkey, if one or two do not make it who really cares, they are only junkies after all.
I am sick of providing ‘care’ for these wankers, they decided to take drugs, they made a personal choice to out that shit in their bodies and yet we are the ones who are left to carry the can.
The only exception to this rule should be for the poor bastards who are born junkies, they cannot help it if they became addicted because of their mothers drug habit.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
An indeterminate number of people picking bits out of websites of doubtful quality to support often extreme views (both ways) just clouds the issue with amateur smoke.
Ha Ha, are you smoking weed down there Pete?
You spent most of the end of last week denying (
) anything was going on by linking constantly to RealClimate which as you know is owned by Micheal Mann of hockey stick fame and Gavin Schmidt 2IC of the GIS temperature record ( which funnily enough agrees with the CRU record, wonder what they’ll find once that congressional hearing gets going?).
The person blowing most of the smoke round here seems to be you.
it reveals a few scientists playing with matches
No sorry Pete, it reveals the ten or fifteen most expert climate scientists on earth, who have been screaming doom at us for ten years were actually a bunch of unethical, manipulative liars who fudged data when it didn’t suit their case, schemed to game the peer review process, schemed to subvert the law in the UK and USA and completely tossed the scientific method out the window.
Whats YOUR angle Pete?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
I think it was Luc doing all the RealClimate links.
Can you show what is wrong with Michael Mann’s hockey stick?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
GlobWar lunacy of the day.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
“Can you show what is wrong with Michael Mann’s hockey stick?”
Pete, the fact you haven’t researched those basic issues speaks volumes.
OTOH, you seem like an erudite fellow so perhaps you have. How about you give us info on what’s right with it, that answers all the well known questions.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
point is reid..we have never before faced what we are now facing..
(global problems need global solutions..)
and i am surprised that you are so ’sanguine about that’..
and are still pushing that free-market bullshit..
that was/is a major factor in what we face..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I have researched Mann’s hockey stick, and posted links on here about it. No one disputed what I posted.
That’s why I wanted to know what your take on it is.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Ok so Dr Don has put out his report to the National; Socialists and true to thier breeding they are in denial. Key on TV1 tonight says that they were elected for certain policy and are not about to change from that. Ha, remember tax cuts???
So the chances of us catching Australia are now on hold for another 2 years at least until we can pump some backbone up these guys.
As I said earlier they are going from bad to worse. Apparently though there are still a lot of starry eyed Kiwi’s out there that think all is well with the world and Shonkey is the mesiah.
Prepare for tough times ahead.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
“That’s why I wanted to know what your take on it is.”
Sigh. Here’s a summary and more here but you know what Pete, this is as boring to me as discussing why WTC7 collapsed in on itself at the speed of freefall with no external contributing factors. [Yawn].
You believe what you want about the science. I prefer discussing the politics of climate change for that’s where the action is and believe it or not, the politics is what really matters to us here.
I say that because I firmly believe that until the science fully addresses those two questions above re: CO2 and the sun to universal satisfaction, that the science cannot be said to be settled and the planet is not threatened, whatever you warmaholics choose to hysterically believe.
At the same time, I’ve been watching the AGW political movement rise and rise since the beginning and believe me, if you understand your history, this is not something to ignore for it has the potential to become a much greater force in our lives than a mere carbon tax, and a mere carbon tax is bad enough in itself.
I just don’t want to go down as being like one of those people who stood by in England in the 30’s and did nothing, that’s all.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Pete –
here – laymans version
and
here – bit more technical
and
here
and
here
Let me know if they’re not up to your standard – I’d be interested to know where you did your research. Maybe you could provide a couple of links?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Oh, and the Wegman Report of course.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
y’know reid..you can sit in the corner playing with yr hockey-stick all day long..
i prefer to rely on the urgencies/immediacies of data like this..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/worlds-last-bastion-of-stable-ice-now-thawing/
now..who to believe..?
reid with his hockey-stick pronouncements..?
or this new data from the scientists..?
mmmm..!!!..??
November 29th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Inventory2 – almost the same thing happened with my cousin. She fell pregnant but was taking a certain drug that her doctor told her would make her child abnormal and she was offered the option of abortion. She struggled with this decision greatly (as one would). Eventually, she went and saw another doctor who told her that in no way whatsoever would the drug affect her pregnancy. She gave birth 9 months later to a perfect baby boy. If she had listened to her original doctor she would have aborted a perfectly healthy child.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Breaking News
The damage caused by “Climategate”.
Attendance of leaders at the Copenhagen Conference, 60 at the time the emails were leaked, now numbers 90 and increasing by the day.
Some damage, huh?
And Michael Mann responds to the leaked emails here. The site itself is well worth perusal in general.
I will respond to posts addressed to me or about me in my absence soon.
PS Has Tiger suffered at the hands of a scorned woman?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Have you read through this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy
November 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
That can work both ways. What if there is major climate problems? More than a few scientists and politicians don’t want to be “one of those people who stood by and did nothing”.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
I will not “accept the science of evolution”. Please shove your thumb up your arse petey georgie gal, then bash yourself with a hockey stick you dropkick.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Sorry, not a direct link above. Go here
Pete, denialists just won’t admit that the hockey stick graph is valid. Just as they won’t admit that Jim Hansen’s 1988 testimony and predictions have withstood the test of time.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Luc, you know where to ram your hockey stick!
November 29th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
phil, you’re absolutely right, the Antarctic Ice Sheets are the one thing that scares me because the danger is, they’re the flying buttresses that keep the land ice from sliding into the sea.
For those who don’t know, Arctic ice melt is no worries for sea levels cause it floats. Antarctic ice IS a worry cause it sits on land. It’s kept in there by the massive ice shelves like the Ross, which perform the same function as those flying buttresses which the Masons used when they built all those stone Gothic cathedrals in Europe to keep the walls from falling down.
However phil – and I do apologise and withdraw for insinuating you were a cloth-cap socialist for you have never been one, I did it for effect – no-one has ever established to my satisfaction a cause-effect connection between the temp fluctuations we are currently experiencing and are acutely aware of, and man’s activities on the planet.
I’m not saying there isn’t one, I’m saying the jury is still out.
In other words, the massive massive fundamental massive huge significant world-changing lifestyle changes that warmaholics blithly advocate, are NOT necessarily required.
And to go charging into Copenhagen guns blazing for a global taxation system which once implemented can be later extended to almost anything at all including but not limited to global currency and global food distribution without good solid iron-clad evidence, does not seem to me to be the wisest possible course.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Another old favourite of mine – Casper and the Jesus Paper
Pete, please don’t tell me you have formed an opinion solely on Wikipedia?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Wow that was a huge and viscous response David. I was going to write a response, but you know what after that response who cares.
After all the stuff has only been out there for 9 days, I do apologise. What a joke. People can have have cracks at others children here and it’s okay, but dont dare challenge the Nats. And there I was telling some-one today you are a nice guy who believes in balance… Wow.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
gee .. another poll result .. poor Phil
November 29th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
better go and have something to eat..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Dad, your responses usually do indicate that rational debate is not your strong point. However, I will point out that the Hockey Stick graph was subjected to so much vilification that the US Congress initiated an enquiry into its validity.
Here you can download a four page pdf of the Report in Brief and have your mind put to rest.
Look under “Download for free” towards the centre of the page.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Course not, look for supporting and contrary views, Google is quite handy. But Wikipedia is often a good place to start, it has reasonable summaries of a lot of stuff.
In this case it goes over McIntyre & McKitrick, Wegman, the National Research Council Report, von Storch etc, and Mann’s update in 2008. It indicates that it is an ongoing issue with varying views supporting and against and is far from decided, as you would expect of research of this type.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Lunk Hansey – look you fuckwit climate change is bullshit and jelly beans. Please grow a braincell and don’t feed me with your demented crapaloa!
November 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Hi Dad,
kristy wants to know why you won’t accept evolution when we can all see how you’ve devolved.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
How you are still here after your deplorable comment to kaya yesterday is beyond belief? Flash and co. said they would visit you tonight at home in Oxford, you creepy snake. I visit you tomorrow. That vile comment about that young girl has got the locals real mad. Why you are allowed to post here is criminal.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
philu .. not hungry .. went to a asian place in Botany last night. 14 of us did the banquet option. not too many vegies but shit it was nice and plentyful, so much so that we took 8 “doggy bags” home between us. the sizzling beef was my fav.
I was driving so only had 3 beers which was a bummer but I have to do my bit eh
November 29th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
now..who to believe..?
those scientists/climatologists..with that fresh sattelite antarctic data..
or the well-modulated urgings of the d4j..?
(it’s a tough-call..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
hey..!..your funeral..!
jabba..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Bring it on you leftist bullshit spinners. Get a grip, smash the slimy lefty spin doctors. Get real, get conservative.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
dad4justice (5554) Vote: 0 0 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
How you are still here after your deplorable comment to kaya yesterday is beyond belief? Flash and co. said they would visit you tonight at home in Oxford, you creepy snake. I visit you tomorrow.
I take it they were the plonkers who came to my drive, and turned tail and ran when they saw the dogs?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I always thought you had fleas and ticks borker.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
will be one day philu
November 29th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
are you mixing meds and alcohol again..?..d4j.?
you are sounding particularly over-excited/incoherent..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
DPF – do you think this is an approprriate forum for threats of violence to be made? Do you condone or condemn these threats?
dad4justice (5556) 1 1 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
How you are still here after your deplorable comment to kaya yesterday is beyond belief? Flash and co. said they would visit you tonight at home in Oxford, you creepy snake. I visit you tomorrow. That vile comment about that young girl has got the locals real mad. Why you are allowed to post here is criminal
November 29th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
and are you trying for sooner rather than later..are you jabba..?
how old are you..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
You lefty filth are so dumb. Look borker wants me banned just like big blouse did the other day.
Wow power to the keyboard cowards.
Goodbye!!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Still worried about the ice caps melting away Phillu?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Don Brash is the Man!!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
gee..!..d4j..
d’yareckon ‘flash & co’ will be happy about you broadcasting their borker-’visiting’-intentions..?
..here on kiwiblog..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Flat tax in the 20-25 range. Nice.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Reid and Chicken give up. Pete & Co will always be led by the so called Czars of science. Oh and by the way my bet is if there are 90 participants at Copenhagen instead of 60 then it is because they want to sign up to this madness before we (the plebs) really get angry. They will then say it is too late. But Pete & co will be happy little chapies wont they.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
i take it you aren’t..?..llama..?
why don’t you go and buy a coast-side property..?
they are getting as cheap as chips..
and will be getting even cheaper..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
53 philu .. we had the death debate a month or so ago.
I’m sure you can go back and read what we said.
I lost my spull check when some mofo crashed my laptop last week and being dumb arse, I don’t know how to recover it .. may have to get the kids to do it. That may explain my “you are sounding particularly over-excited/incoherent..” way.
hope you are having a good/fun night.
ps .. I have cracked the odd woody today .. hic
November 29th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
AGW is a complete con. How much money has been thrown away on the fraud which is AGW?
Socialism doesn’t work.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
dream on..!..oecd..
you’ll be seeing taxes ..to fix this mess we have made..that will make your eyes water..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
oh..that’s right jabba..!..you are the ‘proud’ pisshead..
53..eh..?
you haven’t got long to straighten-up and fly right..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Pete, I can’t work out who’s more dishonest – you or Phil Jones. Having been away for a few days and come back to catch up on this topic, I’d say that you have about 5% blood, and 95% agenda running through your veins. That you try to pretend otherwise would be hilarious if it weren’t so serious.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
dad4justice (5557) 1 1 Says:
November 29th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
You lefty filth are so dumb. Look borker wants me banned just like big blouse did the other day.
Not asking for you to be banned at all, simply asking DPF if he likes his blog being used as a vehicle for threats. Should anything happen to me there could well be repercussions for DPF, as well as for you as you have made your violent intentions quite clear, quite publicly.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Funny you say that, i was working on a retaining wall around Belmont because some dorks million dollar mansion was going to end up in the drink a few years ago.
Lets say we face a catastrophic ice melt of the arctic and antarctic circles leading to a rise of several meters in sea level what could we do about it? cutting back on emissions by 80% is not really an option. Beware of the cure Phillu it could be just as bad as the disease.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
been to an old folks home recently phil?
I mentioned the poll result .. you seem to have missed it
November 29th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
What agenda getstaffed?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
and gee..!..d4j..
you really do live an (antipodean) damon runyanesque sorta life..don’t you..?
full of colourful ‘characters’ like ‘flash & co.’..
eh..?
much talk of court-appearances’..?..different ’stirs’..?
and the like..?
oh..!..it must be fascinating to be you..!
plugged into the christchurch underworld/low-lifes like you are..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
“as well as for you as you have made your violent intentions quite clear, quite publicly”.
Stop talking rubbish you twisted flea. You and big blouse are the same person. Talk about a bent personality disorder.
Phool take a cyanide pill.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Good ol’ Pete – while everybody with the intelligence of a dead mouse and above a now realized how we have been led up the Garden Path by Climate Pseudo science he still vainly clings on the failed theory.
I have bad news for you Pete that particular catastrophe has been postponed.
On the other hand the catastrophe of destroying New Zealand’s productivity to line Al Gore’s and UN Kleptocrats pockets hasn’t.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Pete, You post here claiming I don’t have a position or positions to hold. It’s clear to me that you do. I’m certain it’s clear to everyone else here too. So why pretend otherwise? It just seems dishonest. A bit like the ’science’ you defend so staunchly.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
“..I’m not saying there isn’t one, I’m saying the jury is still out..”
and how long do you think the jury should be allowed to stay ‘out’ for..?
and..
;..a global taxation system which once implemented can be later extended to almost anything at all including but not limited to global currency..”
i take it you are against a tobin tax..?
hoo boy..!..that one is coming..!..you can bank on that..
“..and global food distribution..”
of course global food distribution must be reorganised..
the current ‘market-driven’ system..of surpluses and ‘false’-shortages..(to drive up prices..)
is a total arse..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Malcolm, sorry have been out on the piss. Farm usually uses between 2,000 Litres in winter to 30,000 in summer. No irrigation, These might seem like large figures but constitute about 1 minutes flow from water source
November 29th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Oh dear, general debate has really turned to custard since DPF has been on his break. There are huge amounts of comments (usually from the same punters) but why so nasty? A bit of consideration by some of you for the intent of this forum would be fucking nice. Oh, and some moderation.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
I am against taxation in general as it implies i have no right to what i work for and the government is allowing me to keep a portion of my income this is just my personal stance on taxation as of current.
I think you are missing it though, the Kansas shuffle so to speak, what would a global currency entail under the current financial institutions? the Western Nations already have a crooked system based on usury and fraud. Are we going to to extend this to a global scale? i could think of nothing worse to befall the nations of the world because then Phillu, then we will really be in the Merde.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
What position do you and “everyone else” believe I hold?
Name one part of climate science I staunchly defend (apart from it being based on probabilities)?
Just because I question things doesn’t mean I staunchly believe in the opposite, far from it. There are a lot of uncertainties in climate science, I don’t see how anyone can staunchly defend any of it. Or staunchly oppose it.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Yeah you go phool, you run global food distribution, two bob. So your plan is to make us work then give our food ( produce ) away to socialist fuckheads. Yeah like that will work, just like food distribution worked in the USSR. The free market is the only way to go, of course people of your ilk want to clip the ticket because you are to fucking useless to figure out how to work.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
D4J
I can assure you that I am not Borker, I do not live in Oxford, nor do I live in the South Island.
It seems there may well be more than one person who thinks you are an idiot and a violent thug.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
I am NOT a violent thug. Yawn, yawn another bb attack from another keyboard coward. At least you have a common element with the vile borker. Can’t wait until we use real names.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Pete, surely if you have to question any part of climate change then can you subject the people to a tax and a system of government that will basically dictate the way you live your life?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
D4J, you’re right, big bruv and I are one and the same. Not sure how you figured it out, but Alex always said you were the clever dick. Or was that limp dick, I can never remember.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
“..what would a global currency entail under the current financial institutions? the Western Nations already have a crooked system based on usury and fraud. Are we going to to extend this to a global scale?..”
no..we reform/regulate the system we have..
once gain..
this one isn’t ‘working’..
didn’t ya notice..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
“but Alex always said you were the clever dick”.
You really have a fetish about slandering bloggers daughter’s you nasty cowardly bb thing. Did big blouse show you the low life tactic of filth?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Luc, sorry but the hockey stick graph has been well discredited.
In fact, in 1996 the IPCC ‘Summary for Policymakers’ showed the correct graph which included the Medieval Warming, Little Ice Age and the Late 20th Century Warming periods (which shows what we know from history). The IPCC 2001 report however, expunged those periods and used Mann’s graph. After huge criticism and testing using Mann’s own data it was shown to be false. In the next IPCC report the Medieval Warming and Little Ice Age periods returned mysteriously and without explanation.
So you’re behind the times, LUC.
EVen the newest IPCC reports show the correct graph now, as far as historical periods of warming and cooling go.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
D4J, shouldn’t you be in church, sacrificing goats or virgins or something?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Buzzzzzzzz, sorry phool wrong again. The system in it’s pure form works, it’s “government” ( ticket clippers ) that cause a lot of grief.Farmers like myself have to take what is left. Your outrage belongs to those that use food or any other consumable as leverage, this has nothing to do with capitalism but more to do with greed.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
We will end up like the bird of Hermes clipping our wings till there is nothing left Phill.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Hang on, are we questioning socialism? Allow me to chip in, from the hard left Newsweak of all places.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
how the hell is borker not banned?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
“Reid and Chicken give up. Pete & Co will always be led by the so called Czars of science.”
Good advice Lucy but I’m not talking to them, I’m addressing myself to people with OPEN minds….
Having said that…
“and how long do you think the jury should be allowed to stay ‘out’ for..?”
phil, when you look at temp change IN THE CONTEXT OF the geologic record, apparently, the planet isn’t in any immediate danger. The hysterical urgency engendered by warmaholics/MSM/globalists isn’t of any merit whatsoever, it’s transparent propaganda in the same way that people sell toothpaste using men in white coats, and you’ve fallen for it. In the context of the geologic record, we do have time to fully consider the proposition, and BTW, reasonable change in the form of scientific advancement is afoot as we speak.
Hysterical over-reactions are dangerous at any time, and this issue is in great danger of becoming one of those times. AGW global legislation is an epochal change for the entire world. We need to take a considered, not hasty perspective. We need to push back on the politicians and make sure they have covered all the bases and that needs years of debate. We haven’t had it.
I predict that Climategate will be swept under the carpet because the forces involved in this are too great to change the momentum, but that doesn’t invalidate my argument. I also predict that the world will come to rue Copenhagen if it enacts global taxation without representation. And whomever supported it at the time, should hang their heads in shame.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Reply to TimG_Oz 8.53am. Up and at it so early! Just for me
Tim, you began your post with this: Luc Hansen posted the following last week – [in the face of some heavy criticism from me]:
I’m sorry to disabuse you, Tim, but heavy criticism is not how I would describe your posts in reply to me. Dripping with visceral hatred for anyone who dares criticise your beloved Israel, yes. Replete with gratuitous insults such as Israel hater, Jew hater blah blah blah, yes. As I said in my last reply to you, rational debate is not what I have come to expect from you and many other posters on this site. However, if the moment is apt, I will not shrink from presenting an alternative view to that which emanates from Tel Aviv and the US.
And I remain informed by the eternal aphorism to the effect that there are always three versions of reality, yours, mine and the truth.
Anyway, I’m happy you followed the link to the interview. I did have minor quibbles with some of what Rosen postulated eg he retold that canard about Palestinians missing opportunities, seemingly balanced by saying that Israel has also missed opportunities. I think that is naive, or even just pro-Israel bias, which is to be expected, but his general tone was refreshingly free of diminishment of Palestinians as people deserving of justice.
Tim, you also said …then this flies in the face of a lot of what you have posted about Israel in your time here.
Tim, I don’t agree. I point out continually that the international consensus is the two state solution, based on the 1967 armistice line (with minor, mutually acceptable deviations). I also point out that in fact, and regardless of the propaganda continually spouted by Israel’s government, it is Israel that is the impediment to that settlement, not Palestinians.
I also point out that I believe in the long term, one state is inevitable, not via war, but simply to fulfill the demands of natural justice and international human rights principles. That’s just my opinion. Take it or leave it.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
“..The system in it’s pure form works,.”
um..!..no..!
haven’t you noticed..?
it is slowly but steadily going downthe crappper..
and the dirty rivers..?
whoar..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
“..this has nothing to do with capitalism but more to do with greed…”
indeed..!
which is why it must be regulated/stopped..
(human nature being what it is..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Luc, if I told you the Jews are responsible for the climate change con, would that change your mind?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Grammar referee:
“..The system in it’s pure form works,.”
The impersonal possessive pronoun (its) does not have an apostrophe. The only time you use an apostrophe is when it’s a contraction.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Fletch 9.23pm
That’s funny, the http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_ipcc_fourth_assessment_report_wg1_report_the_physical_science_basis.htm“> IPCC graph I saw (Chapter 1 the Physical Science p101) looked remarkably like the original hockey stick. it’s just so easy to continue to promote lies, isn’t it? Much easier than looking at <a href="facts.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Pete – You post rafts of comments running down the arguments of anyone that doesn’t worship at the alter of climate change and then drop in a comment about having an open mind about the whole subject. IMO that’s simply dishonest, and a waste of electrons given the MSM already do a sterling job of promoting alarm and fear.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Sorry Phil, that 200 litres per glass of milk number is rubbish. Side Show Bob, cheers. So SSB is using 30,000 litres per day. Stab in the dark and say he’s got 100 cows giving 20 litres/day each. So his farm uses at most 30,000 / (100 x 20 x 3) = 5 litres/glass of milk.
Maybe I’ve guessed wrong and SSB has 50 cows. So that would be 10 litres/glass. Or maybe he’s got 200 cows so only 2.5 litres/glass. Or maybe he has 50 cows and they only give 10 litres/day. So that would be 20 litres/glass.
Either way the 200 litres/glass sounds like rubbush, Phil. It might be true in a country where they irrigate (probably is), but it’s way over the top for New Zealand. Which might be why NZ is the largest dairy exporter in the world.
I know they use water at the processing plant, but you don’t use 180+ litres/glass.
Anyway, so don’t worry about the water. Have a nice glass of full cream.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Luc, if I told you the Jews are responsible for the climate change con, would that change your mind?
Hurf, that’s as sick as most of your posts. Personal slurs are your modus operandi and you seem incapable of serious debate.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Trying that facts link again.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
who to believe..?
that scientiist guy who specialises in the water-cost of products..?
or old malcom..?
(working off anecdotal data supplied by bloody-hands-bob..?)
(it’s a tough call..!..eh..?)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Oh, Luc, your response is atypical to a closeted homosexual who, when asked, responds “No! I’m not gay! It’s a sick and vile practice and I don’t do any of it!”
Come on, Luc, let out your hatred. Did one of them stop you getting into art school?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Hurf, what have you got against Palestinians? Come on, let out your hatred. Does it include ALL Muslims or just Arab Muslims?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Fair enough Phil. But SSB just confirmed what I had in mind from my time working on farms and market gardens. Many of which could only dream of having a water supply capable of supplying 2,400 tonnes of water per day.
Anyway, you must have thought it was good info and worth posting about. So get the basics behind the number from your friend. It should be possible to put it in a paragraph. Post it here.
I’m actually guessing you got it off the web. You can find numbers of 1000 litres/litre of milk on the web. But those figures are the extreme and from places where they irrigate. And that uses crazy amounts of water. You get similarly massive sounding amounts of water for irrigated crops like potatoes etc.
Anyway I’m going to have some lovely Fonterra Tip Top now. Cheers.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
the figure is actually from this weeks listener..(page 29..)
in a profile of brent clothier..(plant and food research soil scientist)..
number four on their annual power-lists..(environment section..)
and no..i don’t know him..
so..that’s pretty much you wrong/in full retreat..
..on just about everything..
eh malcom..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 29th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
The fact that they have, with their continued support of Hamas and continuing Islamist and anti-semitic propagandising against Israel within children’s and indeed all media and their misuse of Western aid, proved themselves incapable of responsible self-government?
Oh wait, I forgot, any opposition is rooted in total hatred for moooooooooooooselms and whatnot. In a similar way that writing emails screaming about “[colour] motherfuckers” really isn’t racist but a justified expression of postcolonial rage against the privileged oppressor. Go oooooooooon, call me an Islamophobe. I hear your third life partner loved being called that whenever she changed the channel from the rugby.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
getstaffed 10.28 IMO that’s simply dishonest, and a waste of electrons given the MSM already do a sterling job of promoting alarm and fear.
IMO it’s the deniers and the conspiracy theorists who are the alarmists.
And to Jules 9.09 who said I hear that the Aussies loudly rejected their ETS.
Sadly misinformed. It’s the Liberal Party (in opposition) who have a significant percentage of MPs in denial mode and are sending the party into a tailspin. If the bill fails to pass tomorrow, there will be a double dissolution and the Libs will get absolutely creamed. Australia is one of the early casualties of climate change and the general population is on to it.
Facts are just so damned inconvenient!
November 29th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Good on you Luc. And all those +ve karma’s from people who share your opinion(s). Way to go.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
hurf 11.00pm said The fact that they have, with their continued support of Hamas and continuing Islamist and anti-semitic propagandising against Israel within children’s and indeed all media and their misuse of Western aid, proved themselves incapable of responsible self-government?
At last, something reasonable decipherable.
First, what evidence do you have of “continued support of Hamas”? Initially, Hamas won power with a minority of votes, much as National did here a couple of times before MMP. Recent polls show Hamas doing badly. And the total membership of Fatah and Hamas combined in the occupied territories is around 60,000 out of some 3.5m people. Furthermore, your insinuation that Palestinians should be punished for those who belong to or voted for Hamas is against international law – it’s called collective punishment.
Second, the Hamas (Gaza, not in the West Bank to the same degree) propaganda you mention is a sad byproduct of over 60 years of dispossession, oppression and, since 1967, occupation. But bear in mind it cuts both ways: Israel censors it own history eg references to al Nakba are being expunged from history texts, Arabic names are being removed from towns and streets and Arabs in general suffer considerable discrimination in Israel. Prior to the influence of Zionism and anti-Semitic Europeans in Israel, anti-Semitism was not in Arab consciousness.
Thirdly, the misuse of western aid – don’t forget they receive significant aid from Arab countries too – is unjustifiable, but again this does not justify collective punishment. How many Israeli PMs have been tainted with corruption charges?
Finally, the slur of being incapable of responsible is not only racist, it is simply unproven. Quisling governments under occupation cannot be viewed in the same context as elected governments in a free society.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Good on you Luc. And all those +ve karma’s from people who share your opinion(s). Way to go.
I wear the -ve karmas as a badge of honour! No point in debating with like minded people, is there?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Hamas is National, now? Boy, Luc, you really are on the fringe.
Don’t bother trying to justify it.
Ah yes, of course they do. That’s why they have the most democratic rights in all the Middle East. Those cursed Bedouin! (And no, Iran is not democratic, as much as their apologists wish to twist it as much.)
Yeah, it was a more general “if you’re not one of us pay a tax” feeling. I wonder what they thought of those Zoroastrians?
No, it doesn’t. It also means that they fail a crucial test vis-a-vis self-government. Imagine if Tuhoe became independent, got billions in aid and it turned out they spent that money on Iranian missiles? I don’t imagine National would be best pleased.
At last, the moneyshot! Because the ability to self-govern is inherently genetic- oh wait! No it isn’t. I’m sorry, are you saying that it is? Because that would be racist. You racist.
That damned Abbas! A slave to the joooooooooooooz!
November 29th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Phil, 200 litres/glass might be correct elsewhere in the world, but not NZ. No way. Unless they’re counting the rain (and even then it sounds high), but that’s nuts. You might as well count all the rain landing on NZ and divide that by the farming output. It’s meaningless.
I’ll have a look at the Listener. Does he actually say that NZ dairy farms + milk processing plants use 200 litres/glass of milk? Or is it just a factoid thrown in?
In my experience as a power engineer, if you read a number in a newspaper or magazine, it’s often incorrect or has incorrect units. Often because the journalist doesn’t have a feel for physical quantities or they get the units wrong or they try to convert a figure into a more meaningful units and cock it up. If I had a dollar for each time I’ve read about a 220 kA transmission line, or a 1000 kW power station, or a 33,000 kV power line, or this power station will produce 200 MW of energy per year. Well, I’d have a lot of money.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:24 am
Has anyone ever heard of an Israelis climate change plan? Well, the Queen has endorsed the Commonwealth’s support and the PM has suggested it’s just another photo opportunity. He then decided to impose 100 billion dollars on the ordinary folks to sustain big polluters habits along with five Maori tribes!
November 30th, 2009 at 6:56 am
I take it from this comment you can’t substantiate your accusation.
You post rafts of comments running down anyone who doesn’t worship at your alter of absolute denial. I have checked out claims you and your congregation of closed minds make and find most of them dubious at best.
You try to promote alarm and fear about global governments and scams for which you don’t even try to substantiate.
You cast aspersions on thousands of scientists.
And you again avoided my question, instead resorting to baseless attack again – name one part of climate science I staunchly defend.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:19 am
A few karmas on Kiwiblog?
Way to go.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:21 am
“Way to go.”
Indeed petey, just what the gardener said with all this rain about.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Malcolm, don’t worry about phool he is mad as a maggot. Only milking around 170 cows at the moment, the thirty thousand litre figure is probably more correct for when I was milking more then 200 cows and this would also be on the hottest day in summer. The cows love their water but not as much as noddy would have you believe. He is talking through a hole in his arse.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:24 am
bloody-hands-bob..
stop trying to deflect the message..by attacking the messanger..
(where did you learn to do that..?..)
the fact is…as adjudicated by a top scientist..whose specialty is the water content/price of food/goods..
is that every glass of that filthy/cancer/stroke/heart-disease-causing white-death muck that you produce/peddle..
..has that enormous environmental footprint of 200 litres of (waste)-water..
plus the pollution/degradation of our land/waterways..
plus the pain/suffering deaths of the animals you so cruelly exploit/mistreat..
(and i am the one ‘talking through a hole in his arse.’..eh..?
i mean..if we further define that as one who talks total/provable shit..
that’s you..
eh..?
you are the problem..bloody-hands-bob..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 30th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Buzzzzzzzzzzz, wrong again tosspot, my totals included all water used on the farm THIS INCLUDES “WASTE” WATER. Put in big letters as I would hate you to get the wrong end of the stick,again. May I humbly suggest you send this top scientist an email and tell him he is full of shit and shouldn’t make shit up. And besides if you so despise the dairy industry I take it you will be handing the 30% of your DPB back as dairy farmers pay 30% of the tax but you won’t be doing that will you you hypocritical wanker.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:01 am
may i humbly suggest that you engage with this scientist..
you are the one claiming his knowledge is worthless..
not me..
his name is brent clothier..
and he works at/for ‘plant and food research’..
i’m sure you’ll be able to find him from that..
do let us know how you get on..
eh..?
(the/any email exchange would be/make fascinating reading..eh..?..)
off you go..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 30th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Phil, I’m sure you’d agree it’s important to get this stuff right, if people are to understand what goes into their food. I’m not accusing you of deliberately putting out false info, but that number is plan wrong. For NZ at least.
SSB has just confirmed that his farm uses at most 30,000 / (200 x 3 x 10) = 5 litres/glass. Probably less as that is based on 10 litres/day in mid summer.
If dairying in NZ is more efficient than in many other countries, wouldn’t it be better that it’s done here where the cost is less? As cost correlates with environmental cost. Look at dairying in California. Irrigation galore. Pumped by electricity from (predominately) coal-fired power stations.
So go easy in NZ dairy farmers. They’re one of NZ’s few economic success stories of recent times and one of the few areas still growing. Other than welfare dependency, of course. And from an environmental POV they leave the rest in the dust.
And if SSB could just vote to float Fonterra, I’d put my money where my mouth is
November 30th, 2009 at 11:21 am
I will have a look in the Listener. He may well have been talking about other countries.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:22 am
malcom..
can i suggest you also engage with mr clothier..?
(contact details above..)
i am not the one to argue the science of this..
i just told you about it..
eh..?
once again..
keep a record/let us know how you got on..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 30th, 2009 at 11:24 am
no..he was definitely talking about new zealand..
with that/his..one glass of milk = 200 litres of water..formula..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 30th, 2009 at 11:29 am
If you pull a number out of context and present it as evidence that something is bad, then you need to stand by it a little, Phil.
I don’t have the listener to hand, but why don’t you just copy in the paragraph where that figure came from? That might make it clearer. I will look myself and if that guy is saying that for NZ milk then I will send him an email as I would love to see how he got such a massive number. And I’ll report back.
I’m not having a go at you personally. But it doesn’t help when stupid numbers get bandied around all out of context.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:33 am
ok, i’ll have a look.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:41 am
quote:..
‘it takes for instance, 200 litres of water..to produce a glass of milk..”
is that specific enough for you..?
let us know how you get on..
(b.t.w…this guy is doing work to try to help/aid nz export efforts..
..he isn’t a wild-eyed greenie..trying to tear the system down..
all of which just makes his statement all the more powerful/show-stopping..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 30th, 2009 at 11:52 am
So where in that quote does he say or imply that he’s talking about NZ?
November 30th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Where? I ‘run down’ arguments, not people.
Hope I ‘checked out’ ok. Did you hire a PI? As for my ‘congregation of closed minds’ …what the hell is that? I believed that global warming was happening three years ago. I researched, became suspicious, researched some more and have since come to the view that the science we’ve fed by the experts & MSM is agenda-driven junk-science. The CRU emails and code confirms this for me. Quite how this constitutes a ‘closed mind’ is a mystery.
This isn’t about climate and it isn’t about saving the planet. That you can’t see the bigger picture here is a concern, given that you appear to be bright enough chap.
Where did I do that? Phil Jones et al are responsible for key datasets used by the IPCC. These datasets have been doctored, falsified, withheld from peer review and then ‘lost’ (‘the dog ate my homework’). That other scientists have based their legitimate efforts on what now appears to be falsified junk-science is a travesty. It is Jones at al that are bringing the legitimate efforts of many scientists into disrepute.
On the balance of your plentiful comments it’s clear that you’re well entrenched in the belief that human caused climate change is leading us towards a global catastrophe. I’m sorry that you feel this assessment is baseless attack. I’m simply stating what I observe.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
WTF???
A spokesperson for the New Zealand AIDS foundation has called the death of Glen Mills “tragic”
There is nothing tragic about it, this wanker deliberately infected man and woman with a deadly disease, the world is a better place now he is gone.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
You may think it’s clear I’m “well entrenched in the belief that human caused climate change is leading us towards a global catastrophe.” If so you have not been observing very well. About as well you are observing world wide scientific research and observations perhaps, to fit your conspiracy theory.
You and a few are trying desperately to bring the efforts of many scientists into disrepute. For your accusations to be correct most scientists and politicians would have to be in on the same scam – for which you have still provided no evidence.
Phil Jones is responsible for some stupidity, but that doesn’t automatically negate everything he has been involved in, most studies on climate change are backed up by similar studies, and also backed by a lot of real world observations. And there is a lot more corroboration that his datasets have noting to do with.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
bb, bugger off to today! You are posting in the past.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I’ve been observing quite well enough. You constantly knock back evidence which suggests that man-made climate change is not real, and then feign surprise when I observe that this casts you as a supporter of man-name climate change. Is it more comfortable declaring that you’re sitting on the fence, despite it being obvious that you’re not?
Rubbish. It is Jones at al that are bringing their own profession into disrepute.
Phil Jones is not responsible for some stupidity. Jones, Mann and Biffra are responsible for deliberately falsifying data on which billions (trillions?) of dollars of current and future taxpayer money is to be spent. That is quite possibly criminal, as is the destruction of data prior to a FOI request. Further, their manipulation of the peer review process is an unethical pervasion of accepted scientific method. I’m more than a little alarmed that you classify these actions as ’some stupidity’.