http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf

This includes who was at fault (actually the motorcyclist most of the time, despite their usual claims)

Oh and if it is risk per km or time unit travelled you are after check out this:

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Riskontheroad2008.pdf

Which again shows that motorcyclists are by far at the most risk of being in an accident (both per time unit and per km) – even considerably more than cyclists (although they are the 2nd most risky)

So, they are in accidents more, and are often at fault. Seems fair that they pay their way, user pays and all that you know (rather than being heavily subsidized like at the moment).

And I (as a motorcyclist) subsidize the cost of ACCC for people who choose to drive a far more risky form of transport (bicycles); or who skateboard or play casual sports or any other number of activities.

But the risk issue is a red herring: its not supposed to be about risk. Its supposed to be a scheme where everyone pays a little bit equally that combined is enough to cover all the claims.

If this is unaffordable for the state, then let me go to a private insurer, as I have done and still do while living overseas. The insurer will do the risk calculation for my particular circumstances and I pay accordingly. I can fully insure myself (comprehensive) in Singapore for around $400 and while in W Australia, for less.

In NZ I have to pay an ACC levy bluntly calculated on the total number of accidents somehow involving a bike. My skills, my experience, my training, my motorcycle size and type, all this counts for nothing. That’s whats wrong.

If you advocate charging motorcyclists more you have to also support charging more to register cars, vans etc with low safety ratings. Let’s see how car divers bleat when the system is turned on them.

Chances of balancing the budget and increasing savings rate in NZ

Answer is simple. The government stops trying to be the nanny state and pay for everything. Let us do it for ourselves.

Chances of balancing the budget and increasing savings rate in NZ, preventing NZ Inc becoming NZ Farms (subsidiary of the PRC), zero.

Motorcyclists also would greatly benefit with some tuition by an experienced rider in a car park to check that they can handle the basics prior to getting a licence.

Before a motorcyclist can even sit their Learners’ license test they must pass a basic handling test. It takes about an afternoon where you are taught basic principles, have to demonstrate your ability to do a precision stop from ~40k/h with your front wheel coming to a rest in a space somewhere between an A3 and A4 page, cone weaves, etc.

Most centers that provide the basic handling test have a low cost learner’s programme as well to take new riders out on the road, with bike to bike comms (usually) and teach them the tips and tricks for being on a bike.

I wonder what cagers have to do to get their learner license at what, 15, and strap into a healthy Aussie V8 or a rice racer? Oh that’s right. Sit a multiple choice pen and paper quizz.

The basic fact is, that every time you get on that bike, you are fully aware that you are taking your life into your hands. Fault aside, why should other people be penalised for your choices?

They shouldn’t be. Have you been reading my posts?

I do not want other people to be penalised for my choices.
I do not want to be penalised for other people’s choices.

I want to pay my own insurance and not be penalised for other people’s choices by being forced into ACC.

We don’t even have a registration system for pleasure boats

I can hear the wailing from this pampered community already if any suggestion of user pays is made.

Every year a driver should have to purchase an insurance card (could just be a tag on their license), as they could only drive one vehicle at a time it would just cover themselves. If they have had speeding tickets, dangerous driving or drink driving etc. then their cost would rise proportionally if they attended safety training or had a long unblemished record then their costs could drop.

Yes you would still get cross subsidisation but the costs of an individuals actions would be more clearly seen.

This could also cover tourists

here’s some numbers:

The combined car & bike payout claims for 2008 was only $270,828,000.00
$270,828,000.00 / 2,681,461 = $101 per vehicle

Hell, lets double that to move towards a fully funded model in a reasonable timeframe and we’ll call it good OK?

Oh wait…

We already HAVE!

Rising fuel prices have caused a big increase in the number of motorcyclists and it is the inexperienced ones who are crashing and hurting themselves.

Talking to the chaps in the bike shops from time to time and different people have different opinions. One thing seems constant in the discussion. A lot more scooters on the road, a lot more first time riders. I think you are onto it.

That being the case, why are the increased fees not being targeted to the inexperienced?

To hard to levy it on a rider, easier to double multi-dip by having all vehicles paying. To apply a learners loading via the bikes would put the burden on the scooters and the small bikes (50cc-250cc). This sends a big bad message – about buying bigger bikes to avoid the learners fees. Of course easily solved if ACC was levied on a person rather than an object a person may use from time to time.

http://www.wanganuichronicle.co.nz/local/news/acc-levy-protesters-in-bike-collision/3906571/

Yes indeed. A group of bikers returns from the ACC protest, one misses his turnoff, stops, then pulls out into the line of traffic right in front of a fellow biker, causing both to crash and be transported to hospital! Lousy timing, don’tcha think?

These figures, if correct, make it pretty plain what is going on. Rising fuel prices have caused a big increase in the number of motorcyclists and it is the inexperienced ones who are crashing and hurting themselves.

That being the case, why are the increased fees not being targeted to the inexperienced?

If you take a look in downtown Wellington on an average working day there are a pretty large number of bikes parked in various place but I’m struggling to think of a news report of a motorcyclist being killed on the way to or from work. This suggests to me that it’s not the motorcycles that are especially dangerous, but the way that some people ride them recreationally.

“The question about distance travelled by motorcycles is a good one. But the answer would make motorcycles look even worse on an accidents per km basis. Motorcyles do much less km’s per year than cars – just look at the km’s for used motorcylces on TradeMe.”

Sure, that is true in a lot of cases but not all. I own two vehicles, a 1995 motorcycle and a 1995 car. The motorcycle I bought new and it now has 120,000 km. The car I bought in 2001 with 100,000 km already on it and it has now done 230,000. It’s true that the car has been accumulating kms a little faster than the bike, but the difference isn’t huge and I’m the only one who rides the bike while a former gf put a huge number of kms on the car.

If you look at…

http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=abmw
http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=agm996

…you’ll see that in the last three years while I’ve been single the bike has done 20,000 km while the car has done only 14,000.

It’s true that there are a lot of low-mileage bikes on TradeMe (and in dealer’s showrooms). But there are also a lot that accumulate the same kind of use as cars and that don’t change hands very often at all.

Actually you have to successfully pass a handling course before you are allowed to even sit your learner motorcycle license.

Pretty much this ACC change is the straw that broke the donkey’s back for many motorcyclist, who have for years had to accept anti-motorcycle developments (i.e. cheese cutters).

Also consider that with the new registration fees, a rider would need to get at least three tickets for missing rego each and every year, before the costs of not registering a bike will outweight the benefit of not paying it. I know I won’t be paying it anymore after my next rego expires…

Motorcyclists in general have a healthy disregard for authority, so you can safely assume Wednesday’s protest was not the end, but just the beginning.

The point is that you CHOOSE to ride a vehicle that is very easily hidden in blindspots. You CHOOSE to ride a vehicle that is likely to do you exponentially more damage in an accident than your caged brethren.

The basic fact is, that every time you get on that bike, you are fully aware that you are taking your life into your hands. Fault aside, why should other people be penalised for your choices?

BTW, In my days as a motorcyclist, I found that steel cap boots were a great antidote to rabid, ignorant motorists.

Exactly. People who ride mountain bikes are a classic example of how skill mitigates risk. Like the private pilot example you mention. You learn to handle the machinery in a variety of circumstances.

I was riding my motorbike over the Rimutucka’s a year or two back, Coming around one of the top corners I lost my back wheel on a slippery patch. I wsn’t going hard out and I managed to recover it (heart rate hitting about 300 bpm for a few moments as I climbed all over the bike trying to keep it between me and the road). Later that night I saw on the news that two motorcyclists had been hospitalised because of a diesel spill…. what saved me – luck and mountain bike skills. (oh and the fact I wasn’t going hell out like I might have been if I were 20 years younger)