<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: A fine is not enough</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:59:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: starboard</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639684</link>
		<dc:creator>starboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639684</guid>
		<description>..somewhat better borker...he is described as a male maori 6 ft tall...his victim was a small frail old lady...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>..somewhat better borker&#8230;he is described as a male maori 6 ft tall&#8230;his victim was a small frail old lady&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: billyborker</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639683</link>
		<dc:creator>billyborker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639683</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;personally Id take the guy out the back and beat the living shit out of him.&lt;/i&gt;

Thus making you no better than him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>personally Id take the guy out the back and beat the living shit out of him.</i></p>
<p>Thus making you no better than him.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: starboard</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639681</link>
		<dc:creator>starboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639681</guid>
		<description>unintended?

c&#039;mon PG..unintended..opportunist...the offender saw a little old lady with a handbag..picked her up and threw her to the ground and stole her pension money...you dont get much lower than that. On cue, the slime is going to show remorse when he is caught and he will be wearing a suit..the lawyer will wheel out the old &quot; he was abused as a child trick&quot;  and &quot; the offender has a drug problem &quot;. Nah sorry PG..your thinking is old hat....we need to be dealing to these low lifes and 15-20 in the can is a starting point...personally Id take the guy out the back and beat the living shit out of him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>unintended?</p>
<p>c&#8217;mon PG..unintended..opportunist&#8230;the offender saw a little old lady with a handbag..picked her up and threw her to the ground and stole her pension money&#8230;you dont get much lower than that. On cue, the slime is going to show remorse when he is caught and he will be wearing a suit..the lawyer will wheel out the old &#8221; he was abused as a child trick&#8221;  and &#8221; the offender has a drug problem &#8220;. Nah sorry PG..your thinking is old hat&#8230;.we need to be dealing to these low lifes and 15-20 in the can is a starting point&#8230;personally Id take the guy out the back and beat the living shit out of him.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639677</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639677</guid>
		<description>As I said earlier, it depends. It could range from malicious injury to unintended? That would make quite a difference. The record of the offender and the attitude of the offender would also matter - do they demonstrate real remorse, or callous disregard. 

What if he was an opportunist snatch thief, and the lady just lost her balance and fell? Still a crap thing for the guy to do but no reason to have a blanket over reaction with the sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said earlier, it depends. It could range from malicious injury to unintended? That would make quite a difference. The record of the offender and the attitude of the offender would also matter &#8211; do they demonstrate real remorse, or callous disregard. </p>
<p>What if he was an opportunist snatch thief, and the lady just lost her balance and fell? Still a crap thing for the guy to do but no reason to have a blanket over reaction with the sentence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Manolo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639674</link>
		<dc:creator>Manolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639674</guid>
		<description>&quot;What if it was your mother/grandmother assaulted..&quot;

He has none.  Was found under a cabagge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What if it was your mother/grandmother assaulted..&#8221;</p>
<p>He has none.  Was found under a cabagge.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: starboard</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639672</link>
		<dc:creator>starboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639672</guid>
		<description>..and its because of minds/thinking like yours running our justice/courts system that we have no real justice . What if it was your mother/grandmother assaulted...picked up and thrown on the ground for a hundred bucks..how would you truly feel PG...what would you want to have happen to the offender?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>..and its because of minds/thinking like yours running our justice/courts system that we have no real justice . What if it was your mother/grandmother assaulted&#8230;picked up and thrown on the ground for a hundred bucks..how would you truly feel PG&#8230;what would you want to have happen to the offender?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639669</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639669</guid>
		<description>I should have been clearer - state holiday = custodial

But 15-20 years is not even close to realistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have been clearer &#8211; state holiday = custodial</p>
<p>But 15-20 years is not even close to realistic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: starboard</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639663</link>
		<dc:creator>starboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639663</guid>
		<description>what is normal for that type of crime, the criminal history of the offender etc.


..and this has been the problem to date. Judges looked at previous sentences for a particular crime and then ended up with a wet bus ticket type of namby pamby soft cock sentence.

This particular offender should receive 15-20 years jail . 

So you think a non custodial sentence for this offence? You need ya head looked at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what is normal for that type of crime, the criminal history of the offender etc.</p>
<p>..and this has been the problem to date. Judges looked at previous sentences for a particular crime and then ended up with a wet bus ticket type of namby pamby soft cock sentence.</p>
<p>This particular offender should receive 15-20 years jail . </p>
<p>So you think a non custodial sentence for this offence? You need ya head looked at.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639659</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639659</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know starboard, depends on what is normal for that type of crime, the criminal history of the offender etc. I&#039;d think some sort of state holiday is justified. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know starboard, depends on what is normal for that type of crime, the criminal history of the offender etc. I&#8217;d think some sort of state holiday is justified. What do you think?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: starboard</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639658</link>
		<dc:creator>starboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639658</guid>
		<description>A guy in new york was just sentenced for about 70 years in prison for bashing a 100 year old lady. She didn’t even die. 


..I wait with baited breath to see what sort of wet bus ticket bitch slap sentence a certain &quot; we are looking for a male maori &quot;
offender gets when they find who is responsible for the attack/robbery of an 88 year old lady in a Christchurch shopping mall car park the other day. Tell me Pete George..what sort of term do you think should be given for a crime like this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A guy in new york was just sentenced for about 70 years in prison for bashing a 100 year old lady. She didn’t even die. </p>
<p>..I wait with baited breath to see what sort of wet bus ticket bitch slap sentence a certain &#8221; we are looking for a male maori &#8221;<br />
offender gets when they find who is responsible for the attack/robbery of an 88 year old lady in a Christchurch shopping mall car park the other day. Tell me Pete George..what sort of term do you think should be given for a crime like this?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wreck1080</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639650</link>
		<dc:creator>wreck1080</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639650</guid>
		<description>I say we don&#039;t have enough people in jail. That is where this person belongs. 

A guy in new york was just sentenced for about 70 years in prison for bashing a 100 year old lady. She didn&#039;t even die. 

The same crime in nz might only get a couple of years jail.  

The yanks have got it right. I understand crime in new york is pretty low now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say we don&#8217;t have enough people in jail. That is where this person belongs. </p>
<p>A guy in new york was just sentenced for about 70 years in prison for bashing a 100 year old lady. She didn&#8217;t even die. </p>
<p>The same crime in nz might only get a couple of years jail.  </p>
<p>The yanks have got it right. I understand crime in new york is pretty low now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639640</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639640</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;ask a victim of crime..any victim if they were happy with the sentence handed down to the crim…9.5/10 will tell you they were not.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If victims of crime were able to choose the sentence we would have a much less balanced justice system than we have now.

In fact in this case it&#039;s quite possible the victim wanted a minimal or no sentence, that&#039;s not uncommon for victims of domestic violence.

And as an example in cases of accused violence with separations and child custody disputes there could be major injustices.

There are good reasons why we try to have impartially imposed sentences rather than starboard sentences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>ask a victim of crime..any victim if they were happy with the sentence handed down to the crim…9.5/10 will tell you they were not.</p></blockquote>
<p>If victims of crime were able to choose the sentence we would have a much less balanced justice system than we have now.</p>
<p>In fact in this case it&#8217;s quite possible the victim wanted a minimal or no sentence, that&#8217;s not uncommon for victims of domestic violence.</p>
<p>And as an example in cases of accused violence with separations and child custody disputes there could be major injustices.</p>
<p>There are good reasons why we try to have impartially imposed sentences rather than starboard sentences.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pentwig</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639630</link>
		<dc:creator>pentwig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639630</guid>
		<description>What the hell is it with rugby players in Taranaki?

Remember the Inglewood incident?

phool, here is a chance to promote veganism

Don&#039;t be hypercritical though --- armed robbery and all that!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the hell is it with rugby players in Taranaki?</p>
<p>Remember the Inglewood incident?</p>
<p>phool, here is a chance to promote veganism</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be hypercritical though &#8212; armed robbery and all that!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639614</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639614</guid>
		<description>toad opines:

&lt;blockquote&gt;if they beat their partners, they are just as likely to beat their kids&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not for one &lt;i&gt;moment&lt;/i&gt; defending anyone who hits anyone else for any reason. But whatever gives you that idea, at least in relation to those men involved in custody disputes?

I&#039;ve worked with men against whom the most reprehensible lies have been told in the Family Court. Often, the women who&#039;ve stooped to that level have done dreadful things within the relationship which have provoked the man into striking them.

Certainly they should be held to account for resorting to violence. But the likelihood of those men hitting their children is very small, and drops to virtually nil for those involved in the Family Court - because if they didn&#039;t love their children they wouldn&#039;t be fighting for them - it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; easier, and considerably less expensive, to walk away.

Yes, there are thugs who think nothing of hitting women &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; children. But you won&#039;t find too many in the Family Court. That&#039;s the point D4J makes, and it&#039;s a valid one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>toad opines:</p>
<blockquote><p>if they beat their partners, they are just as likely to beat their kids</p></blockquote>
<p>Not for one <i>moment</i> defending anyone who hits anyone else for any reason. But whatever gives you that idea, at least in relation to those men involved in custody disputes?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve worked with men against whom the most reprehensible lies have been told in the Family Court. Often, the women who&#8217;ve stooped to that level have done dreadful things within the relationship which have provoked the man into striking them.</p>
<p>Certainly they should be held to account for resorting to violence. But the likelihood of those men hitting their children is very small, and drops to virtually nil for those involved in the Family Court &#8211; because if they didn&#8217;t love their children they wouldn&#8217;t be fighting for them &#8211; it&#8217;s <i>much</i> easier, and considerably less expensive, to walk away.</p>
<p>Yes, there are thugs who think nothing of hitting women <i>and</i> children. But you won&#8217;t find too many in the Family Court. That&#8217;s the point D4J makes, and it&#8217;s a valid one.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Political Busker</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639598</link>
		<dc:creator>Political Busker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 08:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639598</guid>
		<description>What intrigues me is why this happens. Is it because the defending lawyer puts together a credible and reasonable argument based from common law on sentencing or because the prosecution makes some type of fundamental error or because the judge exercises discretion? Even if any of these it puts emphasis on the concept that the judge is not the right person to give sentence. He should be making a statement about the facts and information he has received and making a recommendation on those facts. The sentencing procedures are an act of their own. The judge has enough to do to determine guilt. Cases of guilt like this should be decided from within an institution that is skilled and specialized in rehabilitating anti social and dangerous behaviour – there is no room for error in sentencing and with the range of judges with their respective skills they are prone to making such ludicrous assessments in reply to intolerable violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What intrigues me is why this happens. Is it because the defending lawyer puts together a credible and reasonable argument based from common law on sentencing or because the prosecution makes some type of fundamental error or because the judge exercises discretion? Even if any of these it puts emphasis on the concept that the judge is not the right person to give sentence. He should be making a statement about the facts and information he has received and making a recommendation on those facts. The sentencing procedures are an act of their own. The judge has enough to do to determine guilt. Cases of guilt like this should be decided from within an institution that is skilled and specialized in rehabilitating anti social and dangerous behaviour – there is no room for error in sentencing and with the range of judges with their respective skills they are prone to making such ludicrous assessments in reply to intolerable violence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639573</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639573</guid>
		<description>@d4j 6:10 pn

FFS - I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with anything you have ever posted.

Well done.  There are some men who are arseholes about how they treat women, and I&#039;m glad you finally recognise that, rather than blindly defend them on custody issues, because if they beat their partners, they are just as likely to beat their kids. 

Hope springs eternal!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@d4j 6:10 pn</p>
<p>FFS &#8211; I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with anything you have ever posted.</p>
<p>Well done.  There are some men who are arseholes about how they treat women, and I&#8217;m glad you finally recognise that, rather than blindly defend them on custody issues, because if they beat their partners, they are just as likely to beat their kids. </p>
<p>Hope springs eternal!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: billyborker</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639569</link>
		<dc:creator>billyborker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639569</guid>
		<description>Only if you know the secret toilet stall foot tap sequence. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only if you know the secret toilet stall foot tap sequence. <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639566</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639566</guid>
		<description>Flashman

Do the entertainers have a Platinum Bathroom or is that reserved for the politicians and the entertainers share the gold one with Rugby players?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flashman</p>
<p>Do the entertainers have a Platinum Bathroom or is that reserved for the politicians and the entertainers share the gold one with Rugby players?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Flashman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639557</link>
		<dc:creator>Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639557</guid>
		<description>David, permit me to point out the pivotal fact you inadvertantly overlooked when making your editorial comment: namely the fellow&#039;s a doof-head **Rugby Player**.

In NZ that&#039;s the magic key to the Gold Bathroom that washes away All Crimes - now including GBH/attempted murder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, permit me to point out the pivotal fact you inadvertantly overlooked when making your editorial comment: namely the fellow&#8217;s a doof-head **Rugby Player**.</p>
<p>In NZ that&#8217;s the magic key to the Gold Bathroom that washes away All Crimes &#8211; now including GBH/attempted murder.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: billyborker</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/a_fine_is_not_enough.html#comment-639556</link>
		<dc:creator>billyborker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=38879#comment-639556</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;dad4justice (5599) Vote:  1   0   Says: 

December 5th, 2009 at 6:10 pm 
Today many prisoners sit in a cell for having committed far lesser crimes than this wife beater.
&lt;/i&gt;

What were you in for again? I forget. Making false complaints to the Police, wasn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>dad4justice (5599) Vote:  1   0   Says: </p>
<p>December 5th, 2009 at 6:10 pm<br />
Today many prisoners sit in a cell for having committed far lesser crimes than this wife beater.<br />
</i></p>
<p>What were you in for again? I forget. Making false complaints to the Police, wasn&#8217;t it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

