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	<title>Comments on: And the winners are</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: david c</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-643264</link>
		<dc:creator>david c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I also assumed he meant Neville Chamberlain, but I&#039;m just not quite clear what the comparison is...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also assumed he meant Neville Chamberlain, but I&#8217;m just not quite clear what the comparison is&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: lyndon</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-643111</link>
		<dc:creator>lyndon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-643111</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Manolo why do you call him John Neville Key? &lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;d assumed he referred to Neville Chamberlain. I was just trying to work though that analogy, but it turns out I can&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Manolo why do you call him John Neville Key? </i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d assumed he referred to Neville Chamberlain. I was just trying to work though that analogy, but it turns out I can&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Elijah Lineberry</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642998</link>
		<dc:creator>Elijah Lineberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642998</guid>
		<description>John Key as &#039;Labour MP of the year&#039;

Ummmmm...?!?! David, what makes you think it was tongue in cheek? (I was just reading the National Party founding principles and cannot find a single one which has been implemented in the last year)

www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Key as &#8216;Labour MP of the year&#8217;</p>
<p>Ummmmm&#8230;?!?! David, what makes you think it was tongue in cheek? (I was just reading the National Party founding principles and cannot find a single one which has been implemented in the last year)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tassman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642968</link>
		<dc:creator>Tassman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642968</guid>
		<description>Actually, he runs away with the breeder&#039;s trophy, his own cows!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, he runs away with the breeder&#8217;s trophy, his own cows!</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642962</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642962</guid>
		<description>F E Smith opines:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Power had said that the lawyers were ripping the system off so he needed some basis to show he was right&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ahem... In my nomination of John Whitehead for Public Servant of the Year I said &quot;To speak truth to power requires courage. To tell him what he wants to hear requires Margaret Bazley&quot; :-D

Glad to see the legal fraternity agreeing. Upon reflection I&#039;d go furtehr and say it was a broad and unjustified slur against an entire profession based on the actions of a few of its members. No different to the left wing blog commenters who cherry pick a few extreme comments from Kiwiblog and then characterise it as &quot;the sewer&quot; despite the fact that many people of considerable wisdom and eleoquence lend us the benefit of their input.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>F E Smith opines:</p>
<blockquote><p>Power had said that the lawyers were ripping the system off so he needed some basis to show he was right</p></blockquote>
<p>Ahem&#8230; In my nomination of John Whitehead for Public Servant of the Year I said &#8220;To speak truth to power requires courage. To tell him what he wants to hear requires Margaret Bazley&#8221; <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Glad to see the legal fraternity agreeing. Upon reflection I&#8217;d go furtehr and say it was a broad and unjustified slur against an entire profession based on the actions of a few of its members. No different to the left wing blog commenters who cherry pick a few extreme comments from Kiwiblog and then characterise it as &#8220;the sewer&#8221; despite the fact that many people of considerable wisdom and eleoquence lend us the benefit of their input.</p>
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		<title>By: F E Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642954</link>
		<dc:creator>F E Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642954</guid>
		<description>David, can you please name the rorts that the legal aid lawyers are engaging in?  Most of the criticism of the defence bar seems to be aimed at competence rather than dishonesty, with the exception of Manakau.  Certainly nowhere else in the country seemed to be criticised for dishonesty, with the exception of Palmerston North, which criticism was more competence based I think.

GPT is correct, the report was sensationalised.  Bazely knew what Power wanted and had to stretch the bounds of hearsay to be able to include any real criticism of the legal profession.  It seems, however, that she found ample evidence of the LSA&#039;s failings.  But Power had said that the lawyers were ripping the system off so he needed some basis to show he was right.

Ironically, Power was himself a Duty Solicitor, and if a duty solicitor then probably a legal aid lawyer, in Palmerston North.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, can you please name the rorts that the legal aid lawyers are engaging in?  Most of the criticism of the defence bar seems to be aimed at competence rather than dishonesty, with the exception of Manakau.  Certainly nowhere else in the country seemed to be criticised for dishonesty, with the exception of Palmerston North, which criticism was more competence based I think.</p>
<p>GPT is correct, the report was sensationalised.  Bazely knew what Power wanted and had to stretch the bounds of hearsay to be able to include any real criticism of the legal profession.  It seems, however, that she found ample evidence of the LSA&#8217;s failings.  But Power had said that the lawyers were ripping the system off so he needed some basis to show he was right.</p>
<p>Ironically, Power was himself a Duty Solicitor, and if a duty solicitor then probably a legal aid lawyer, in Palmerston North.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642920</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642920</guid>
		<description>Jeff83 ,yeah that&#039;s probably the right angle. Policy achievements to come too, presumably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff83 ,yeah that&#8217;s probably the right angle. Policy achievements to come too, presumably.</p>
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		<title>By: GPT1</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642904</link>
		<dc:creator>GPT1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642904</guid>
		<description>DPF - name the &quot;massive rorts&quot; that we identified, with evidence, in the Beazley report.  

The only &lt;i&gt;massive&lt;/i&gt; rort is that legal aid lawyers are paid less than they were in 1990.  Not less in real terms or percentage terms but less per hour.  

For that matter name one other profession or government department that is still operating on a 1990 pay scale?  

To answer my own question the only rort that might be proven and be massive is in Treaty area but I doubt that is what most punters think about when the legal aid question arises.

And her report was sensationalised.  It identifed a (through fair means or foul) a small but significant group of lawyers who rip off the system (which is ironic given the system rips every competent lawyer off) but went on to say that LSA was hopeless, lawyers were underpaid and undertrained.

The irony was that she gave the law society a suggested 3 years to &quot;clean up&quot; a mess that she failed to identify beyond anecdote and hearsay and that the LSA (the &lt;i&gt;contractor &lt;/i&gt;) has never addressed (save for one case).  

Still, as you note, lawyers are not the most popular species (unless you&#039;re in the shit) so what the hell - fuck &#039;em they&#039;re not going to change the course of an election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DPF &#8211; name the &#8220;massive rorts&#8221; that we identified, with evidence, in the Beazley report.  </p>
<p>The only <i>massive</i> rort is that legal aid lawyers are paid less than they were in 1990.  Not less in real terms or percentage terms but less per hour.  </p>
<p>For that matter name one other profession or government department that is still operating on a 1990 pay scale?  </p>
<p>To answer my own question the only rort that might be proven and be massive is in Treaty area but I doubt that is what most punters think about when the legal aid question arises.</p>
<p>And her report was sensationalised.  It identifed a (through fair means or foul) a small but significant group of lawyers who rip off the system (which is ironic given the system rips every competent lawyer off) but went on to say that LSA was hopeless, lawyers were underpaid and undertrained.</p>
<p>The irony was that she gave the law society a suggested 3 years to &#8220;clean up&#8221; a mess that she failed to identify beyond anecdote and hearsay and that the LSA (the <i>contractor </i>) has never addressed (save for one case).  </p>
<p>Still, as you note, lawyers are not the most popular species (unless you&#8217;re in the shit) so what the hell &#8211; fuck &#8216;em they&#8217;re not going to change the course of an election.</p>
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		<title>By: RightNow</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642871</link>
		<dc:creator>RightNow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642871</guid>
		<description>Turia: Helen hated her. Any more reasons required?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turia: Helen hated her. Any more reasons required?</p>
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		<title>By: David Farrar</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642857</link>
		<dc:creator>David Farrar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642857</guid>
		<description>Repton. The IP address is not a static one and is not used by any commenter on Kiwiblog. I&#039;d love to name them if I could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Repton. The IP address is not a static one and is not used by any commenter on Kiwiblog. I&#8217;d love to name them if I could.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642850</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642850</guid>
		<description>MickySavage, Dame Margaret got my vote for her work on the legal aid report. She has a long history in the public service and has been entrusted by both Labour lead and National lead governments to do very politically sensitive jobs.
I trust her judgment 100% and yours zip. She reported the comments made to her on conditions of confidentiality, which in the circumstances are understandable. If she was sued for defamation, I&#039;d love to be on a jury in that case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MickySavage, Dame Margaret got my vote for her work on the legal aid report. She has a long history in the public service and has been entrusted by both Labour lead and National lead governments to do very politically sensitive jobs.<br />
I trust her judgment 100% and yours zip. She reported the comments made to her on conditions of confidentiality, which in the circumstances are understandable. If she was sued for defamation, I&#8217;d love to be on a jury in that case.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff83</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642848</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642848</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; I do only to a small extent. But still, the other winners made sense, but seriously why would the winner here be Turia? I can perhaps understand from a Maori Party point of view, but that’s a pretty small minority. She got publicity for the Maori Party without disgracing herself? Anyone? 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Whether you like her politics or not she has managed to work constructively with a party that traditionally hasn&#039;t had the strongest relations with her constituents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> I do only to a small extent. But still, the other winners made sense, but seriously why would the winner here be Turia? I can perhaps understand from a Maori Party point of view, but that’s a pretty small minority. She got publicity for the Maori Party without disgracing herself? Anyone?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Whether you like her politics or not she has managed to work constructively with a party that traditionally hasn&#8217;t had the strongest relations with her constituents.</p>
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		<title>By: david c</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642847</link>
		<dc:creator>david c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642847</guid>
		<description>John Neville Key

Manolo why do you call him John Neville Key?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Neville Key</p>
<p>Manolo why do you call him John Neville Key?</p>
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		<title>By: Repton</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642842</link>
		<dc:creator>Repton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642842</guid>
		<description>DPF: You said you were going to &quot;name and shame&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DPF: You said you were going to &#8220;name and shame&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642835</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642835</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Never assume those who comment are representative of the overall readership&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I do only to a small extent. But still, the other winners made sense, but seriously why would the winner here be Turia? I can perhaps understand from a Maori Party point of view, but that&#039;s a pretty small minority. She got publicity for the Maori Party without disgracing herself? Anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Never assume those who comment are representative of the overall readership</p></blockquote>
<p>I do only to a small extent. But still, the other winners made sense, but seriously why would the winner here be Turia? I can perhaps understand from a Maori Party point of view, but that&#8217;s a pretty small minority. She got publicity for the Maori Party without disgracing herself? Anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642828</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642828</guid>
		<description>Even though Mahons observation was 100% accurate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though Mahons observation was 100% accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: David Farrar</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642827</link>
		<dc:creator>David Farrar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642827</guid>
		<description>Micky: There was one assertion made that might have been better unreported, but to suggest that undermines the massive rorts and problems exposed is ridicolous and patch protection. It is like arguing that Mahon&#039;s comment about an orchestrated litany of lies meant the rest of the findings of the Commission were worthless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Micky: There was one assertion made that might have been better unreported, but to suggest that undermines the massive rorts and problems exposed is ridicolous and patch protection. It is like arguing that Mahon&#8217;s comment about an orchestrated litany of lies meant the rest of the findings of the Commission were worthless.</p>
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		<title>By: Manolo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642821</link>
		<dc:creator>Manolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642821</guid>
		<description>The 2009 Kiwiblog Disappointment MP of the Year is John Neville Key.  He was always a hot favourite with rave reviews from  Labour MPs and others for his countless flip-flops, his indecisiveness, his inane remarks, his hands-off approach to government, his pathetic efforts to avoid questions, the permanent asinine grin on his face, and finally by sacrificing the NZ flag to the altar of the Maori Party. 

Neville Key won 60% of the vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 2009 Kiwiblog Disappointment MP of the Year is John Neville Key.  He was always a hot favourite with rave reviews from  Labour MPs and others for his countless flip-flops, his indecisiveness, his inane remarks, his hands-off approach to government, his pathetic efforts to avoid questions, the permanent asinine grin on his face, and finally by sacrificing the NZ flag to the altar of the Maori Party. </p>
<p>Neville Key won 60% of the vote.</p>
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		<title>By: mickysavage</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642818</link>
		<dc:creator>mickysavage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642818</guid>
		<description>DPF

Bazley did not expose legal aid problems.  She quoted some highly defamatory rumours that she heard and represented them as fact.  She did not actually find out the facts, nor did she put the allegations to the aggrieved individuals.

I hear the collective Manukau Bar is busily drafting defamation proceedings and I wish them every success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DPF</p>
<p>Bazley did not expose legal aid problems.  She quoted some highly defamatory rumours that she heard and represented them as fact.  She did not actually find out the facts, nor did she put the allegations to the aggrieved individuals.</p>
<p>I hear the collective Manukau Bar is busily drafting defamation proceedings and I wish them every success.</p>
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		<title>By: David Farrar</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/and_the_winners_are.html#comment-642812</link>
		<dc:creator>David Farrar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=39127#comment-642812</guid>
		<description>Never assume those who comment are representative of the overall readership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never assume those who comment are representative of the overall readership.</p>
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