General Debate 29 December 2009

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calendar girl

There’s nothing PC about those Chinese. Now they are suggesting women can’t park cars properly! (I love the PR euphemisms in quotes):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8432887.stm
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December 29, 2009 9:30am
TimG_Oz

Nelson Mandela is a truly inspirational figure that will go down in history. However, the upcoming film “Invictus” may have some historical inaccuracies

Here are some things I would like to see mentioned in the film

1. The Springboks were (and still are) probably the dirtiest Rugby team around (except for maybe the French). Stomping, eye gouging, late tackles are all part of the norm. Only the year before the film (1994) was a player suspended for biting Sean Fitzpatrick’s ear off during a test match.

2. Food Poisoning? Why did several All Blacks leave the field “injured” during the final – some visible vomiting? The All Blacks that took the field that day were visibly different from the rest of the tournament. They probably had peaked too early, but the influence of this in a closely drawn match seems pretty severe.

3. Louis Luyt, the SA Rugby Boss, seemed to pretty much ignore the history and Mandela. He stated the Springboks would have won every previous tournament – He was accused of Racism in later years, and went on to become a wealthy politician. All Black players walked out of the presentation dinner.

4. Racism continued to plague South African Rugby in later years. Accusations of selection bias, refusal to shake hands of black opposition players, and a scandal involving Geo Cronje who refused to room with Black team mates are just some of the issues to arise

5. When South African players put their hands on their hearts one wonders what they are embracing. The Crime levels, poverty and AIDS make life in the republic pretty untenable. 15 years on things seem worse, not better.

6. The Jumbo Jet that flew over the stadium seems iconic for the migration out of South Africans out of the Republic. Ironically most to the countries that they beat in the tournament – Australia and New Zealand, although many also to England, Canada and the US. This includes some of South Africa’s most gifted sportsmen and Rugby Players – notably Junior Springbok captain Clyde Rathbone

7. South African politics seem as corrupt as ever, and racism seems rife, including Black politicians against Jews and Whites.

8. Of the Black Players in the Springboks today – most (e.g. Bryan Habana) seem handpicked from the finest schools.

9. There are a group of Black South African All Black supporters. They go to every touring match and Cheer for the away team. Why would they be supporting the opposition if not to show their disgust at their own team.

10. Francois Pieenar was caught up the following year trying to recruit players for the World Rugby Corporation. This move to get money for playing Rugby (rather than the love of the country that the movie depicts) effectively ostracised him from the South African Rugby Union

11. The following year (1996), the All Blacks smashed the Springboks 4 -1 in a 5 match series. Zinzan Brooke kicked a famous drop goal to seal the series with a match to play
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December 29, 2009 9:37am
Elijah Lineberry

Tim, do you support large numbers of convicted murderers and terrorists or just Nelson Mandela?

Are you going to write a post expressing support for Bin Laden? or the chaps who used to blow up London pubs for the IRA? or the September 11 chaps? or the Bali Bombers?

Do these chappies have ‘Hero’ status in your mind too?

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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December 29, 2009 10:03am
bill hicks

Kabal Afghanistan http://digg.com/travel_places/Kabul_40_years_ago_vs_Kabul_today
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December 29, 2009 10:05am
Bok2

Tim oh dear.
First up Mandela is a convicted killer. However he is also the greatest statesman the world has ever seen. The bloodbath in SA would have been beyond belief if it was not for him. SA owes it’s continued existence to Mandela. It could have been worse than Zim.

1. BS. The All Blacks in fact has had some of the dirtiest players. remember Richard Loe trying to rip out the Caterbury fullback’s eyes during an NPC game? At the time they were All Black team mates.
Or how about Tealata strangeling fellow All Black MacAllister during another NPC game. All countries have players that play dirty. And players that play tough.
2. Food poisoning, then you say they peaked too early. Blah blah blah. I have yet to meet an All Black supporter who has not had an excuse for not winning the WC. Last time the ref robbed you, In Australia the Aussies cheated by being off side all the time, then in SA it was food poisoning, then before that in France it was the bad draw and tight schedule (never mind that the boys went off and had a little break with their wives and GF’s on the Riv. How about giving the All Blacks a bit of respect rather than make excuses.
3. Rugby bosses are people. Graham Henry said “judge me on the World Cup”, then renegged when they got beaten. Integrity takes on many guises. Being cut up about luytt is justified, but one could say that NZ faired no better with a plagiarist running the whole country.
4. Of course racism continue to plague SA rugby. However SA no longer has a nationally selected team simply selected on race. I am not sure but the only country who has that in any significant form is….mmmm let me think.
5. Now you are just being stupid. Beware of making up thoughts for other people. I can just as easily ask:” When the All Blacks does the Haka and the cutting motion across their throat , does it represent the domestic violence and deaths of children in NZ?” But that would be just ignorant, stupid and childish.
6. The small aircraft flying over Eden Park seems iconic of some NZ attitudes. Small minded groups wanting to control and dictate to others. What crap.

I can go on and on. Watch the film for what it is. The same as Avatar or The Day After, or any film. It is not a historical document, it is entertainment based on history. And if you want to be bitter and twisted, be so, dont go watch the movie.

Your whole post was typical of some of the All Black supporters attitude. Not the sports fan, the fools. I sat in Fergies down in CHCH chatting to some-one like you who was going on and on about the Els kick to win in Wellington, and the Springboks only winning by a kick. The All Blacks he said would have won if it was not for kicks. I then mentioned the famous Fox era and how games were won time and again with the boot. “That is quite different,” he said ” The All Blacks were so good that they could play Fox into the position to get the kicks..” I could only shake my head.
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December 29, 2009 10:48am
MT_Tinman

Bok, except for the odd mistake (Loe was trying to rake the Otago fullback’s eyes) I agree with you, particularly about 1995.

NZ bottled it.
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December 29, 2009 11:18am
Grizz

Some more thoughts on that 1995 world cup match.

Regardless of fault, most of that All Black team suffered from food poisoning during the final week. That much is fact and no doubt affected their on field performance.

That said, South Africa tackled their hearts out to defend their goal line and Mehrtans if I recall had three drop goal attempts and botched the lot. These could have made all the difference. However as an All Black supporter, what pisses me off most was late into the match, Jonah at full pace, grasped a pass with nothing but grass between him and the goal line. It would have been a fairytale ending, with Jonah the hero and star of the tournament. However it was just fantasy as the referee made a dubious forward pass call. The rest is just history.

As for dirty play, Rugby was cleaning itself up at the time. The main cases of foul play in the Tournament involved South Africa. There was a nasty incident in the Canada-South Africa match which involved sending offs from both teams. SA hardly started the tournament well struggling to beat Canada and Romania. Even though the All Blacks were the superior team throughout the tournament, at the end of the day they botched the final.
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December 29, 2009 12:45pm
Grizz

On Grant Fox, he played in teams, Auckland and the ABs, that scored lots of tries. This was in part due to his ability to pass or tactically kick the ball to involve the backline. Although not a classy runner, he was an extraordinary pivot. His goal kicking in the tight clashes was just another of his great assests. However his all round game is often overlooked and under-rated.
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December 29, 2009 12:49pm
Brian Smaller

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3197980/Roadside-butchery-of-beast-shocks-pair

Read that and weep. Where do these morons think meat comes from? It is nothing you don’t see in any rural area.
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December 29, 2009 1:14pm
Bok2

Grizz and Tinman
I totally agree with you botgh. I was not really having a crack at the All Blacks but at some-one that just again follow that mantra of “We were robbed, they cheated.” I will never forget the post match interviews at the last world cup. Quarter finals and both NZ and Aus were knocked out that day. MaCaw said “I am proud, Mortlock said “We played like crap and it is our fault we lost.” A totally different attitude and maybe one of the reasons behind your WC failures, who knows.

Re Fox yes he did play in games that a lot of tries were scored. However a lot of games were won on kicks and that is absolutly the way it should be. It is a way to score points, and it can win you games. In fact if the All Blacks had taken one particular kick in the last world cup, the outcome might have been totally different in the finals.

The All Blacks is a fantastic legacy team. I just get the shits when people are blind to their shortcomings. hero worship them by all means but not by bad mouthing the opposition, but by celebrating the team and it’s achievements.
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December 29, 2009 2:09pm
TimG_Oz

Bok2 – I am not criticising Mandela, nor am I criticising the Springboks (I might critcise some of the Hattis’s – however you spell it). I am suggesting that the movie “fairytale” may not be telling the full story … That this one “rugby game” was the fairy tale for the whole country that made everybody hug and get along.

You may have a different opinion having been there at the time. But it appears that you no longer live there – so I assuming it is not a fairytale for you. The ex-South Africans I have met have told me some horror stories of their friends being murdered by criminals.

Maybe I am a bit of a bitter Rugby Supporter, but the post was supposed to be (somewhat) tongue in cheek. To be honest Rugby sucks now worldwide and League is a much better spectator sport. I agree with you about small minded New Zealanders (I know longer live there either)
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December 29, 2009 2:15pm
Bok2

Does anyone find this mad?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10617732
and then
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10617729
And we worry about Rugby?
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December 29, 2009 2:21pm
Brian Smaller

Bok2 – you are right of course.

As far as the ABs go, I still think the Q-Final loss in Cardiff in 2007 was mostly down to poor leadership on the field. McCaw may have been proud, but he did not have a good game that day. I think he has got a lot more steel in him now though, so it was a learning experience for him. And for the record, NZ lasted longer in the tournament than Australia by about an hour. Perhaps that is what he meant by his “proud” comment.
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December 29, 2009 2:27pm
jaba

“Next year Tamaki Makaurau – Auckland becomes a supercity and its communities are divided over that, especially over Maori representation. But if there is no definitive answer to the race question, does that mean we should stop asking?”

Got this from Stuff today about race relations and there it is .. Tamaki Makaurau-Auckland .. oh oh. No Macrons yet BUT!!
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December 29, 2009 3:05pm
Thrash Cardiom

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3197980/Roadside-butchery-of-beast-shocks-pair

Read that and weep. Where do these morons think meat comes from? It is nothing you don’t see in any rural area.

I live in a rural area and drive rural roads and I have never seen roadside butchery.
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December 29, 2009 3:44pm
Fletch

A new paper by a German physicist that debunks CO2 causing global warming. He says the proposition actually breaks the laws of Physics (i.e. the First and Second Law of Thermodynamics).

Here is the finest shredding of junk science you will ever read.

In a recently revised and re-published paper, Dr Gerlich debunks AGW and shows that the IPCC “consensus” atmospheric physics model tying CO2 to global warming is not only unverifiable, but actually violates basic laws of physics, i.e. the First and Second Law of Thermodynamics. The latest version of this momentous scientific paper appears in the March 2009 edition of the International Journal of Modern Physics.

The central claims of Dr. Gerlich and his colleague, Dr. Ralf Tscheuschner, include, but are not limited to:

1) The mechanism of warming in an actual greenhouse is different than the mechanism of warming in the atmosphere, therefore it is not a “greenhouse” effect and should be called something else.

2) The climate models that predict catastrophic global warming also result in a net heat flow from atmospheric greenhouse gasses to the warmer ground, which is in violation of the second law of thermodynamics.

Essentially, any machine which transfers heat from a low temperature reservoir to a high temperature reservoir without external work applied cannot exist. If it did it would be a “perpetual motion machine” – the realm of pure sci-fi.

The paper’s introduction states it neatly:

(a) there are no common physical laws between the warming phenomenon in glass houses and the fictitious atmospheric greenhouse effects, (b) there are no calculations to determine an average surface temperature of a planet, (c) the frequently mentioned difference of 33 degrees Celsius is a meaningless number calculated wrongly, (d) the formulas of cavity radiation are used inappropriately, (e) the assumption of a radiative balance is unphysical, (f) thermal conductivity and friction must not be set to zero, the atmospheric greenhouse conjecture is falsified.
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December 29, 2009 6:18pm
Steve

Meat grows up in shrink wrap
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December 29, 2009 6:22pm
Viking2

Going to the Beach? Here is a good video to watch and send around.
http://player.video.news.com.au/theaustralian/#1367662830
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December 29, 2009 7:33pm
Marknz

Anyone watch TE KĀEA on Maori TV tonight? Real chip on the shoulder stuff there from the reporter. Talking about aid to Samoa being taken by “Pakeha consultants”, that she was on a plane to Niue with mainly “Pakeha journalists and that [she] felt like a foreigner”, that she considered “the Pakeha journalists to be ignorant”. All this was said with a smirk from the host of the show talking to her. Trite to say it but imagine if a Pakeha reporter said … etc
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December 29, 2009 11:55pm
Tassman

A warmonger who accepts a nobel prize for Peace likes having his cake and eating it too! – ‘commonsense’

If war is justified, then then the means for Peace is also justified – ‘Mandela’

It is not necessary to fight for peace when war is not necessary – ‘me’
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December 30, 2009 6:22am
MikeNZ

Viking2
Thanks for the post, really good.
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December 30, 2009 11:06am
MikeNZ

Tassman
I disagree
It is always necessary to fight for peace as the opponents to it are always busy even if it is our own apathy.
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December 30, 2009 11:08am

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