Name supression and the musician
Tomorrow in Wellington is the R v the Internet seminar at Te Papa. The final programme is online, and I think there is a great lineup of speakers – and attendees.
The timing for the seminar has been very good, both with the release of the Law Commission’s recommendations (which is not a coincidence as it was timed to be just after that) but also the publicity around name suppression for the musician, which had even the Prime Minister asked at a press conference if he knew the name.
Incidentally with regards to that case, some commenters were of the view that the entertainer did nothing wrong, as the complainant went into the alleyway. This Sunday News article provides the victim’s perspective:
THE family of the teenage girl attacked by a prominent entertainer have broken their silence branding the incident “animalistic” and his permanent name suppression “totally disgusting”.
Victim Brittany Cancian last night described the musician as a “disgusting, self righteous pig”.
The 17-year-old was with friends in central Wellington on March 5 when two of her friends were led away with the drunken man around 3.30am.
Brittany’s mother Racheal, of Lower Hutt, said her “caring” daughter was attacked by the man while checking on her friends.
“I think he’s an animal, when I heard what he had done I thought it was animalistic. He wasn’t at all gentle about it,” Racheal said.
“What happened has absolutely been downplayed. She never followed him down the alleyway she went to see that her friends, who had followed him, were okay.
So this was not a girl going down an alley wanting to kiss him.
“She has quite a caring heart and she wanted to check on her mates and when she went around the corner he grabbed her.”
Auckland District Court heard earlier this month how the famous entertainer asked Brittany and her friends to “kiss my balls” before he grabbed the teenager’s head and pulled it towards his crotch.
His genitals brushed across Brittany’s face. The man admitted a charge of inducing an indecent act but was discharged without conviction by Judge Eddie Paul. He was given permanent name suppression because naming him would affect his record and concert ticket sales.
I think he got off lightly.
Racheal said police never asked her or Brittany if they wanted the man’s name suppression application opposed.
Court documents reveal police maintained a “neutral” position on the matter.
It is unfortunate the victim was not given a say. I sometimes wonder whether victims should be given their own counsel in court cases – to represent their interests.
Commission president Sir Geoffrey Palmer said if recommendations in the report had been adopted by Government prior to the musician’s court appearance, he “certainly would not” have received suppression.
“He would have to show extreme hardship and that is very difficult to do … that is hardship out of the ordinary, not ordinary hardship and that is a much higher threshold than the law currently provides.”
“We all have to have a quality before the law. The person who is a grave digger has to be treated the same as a person who is an All Black.”
On this issue I very much agree with Sir Geoffrey.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 pm
It’s high time “Sir Geoffrey” buggers out of political debate. That’s not his role and his never been the Law Commission’s role to be a political body. Once again Sjonkey shows he hasn’t got his troops inline. (Spare me the baloney about the LC being ‘independent’ and that sort of crappola, nothing is ‘independent’ in this country).
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:38 pm
What a beat up. We’re supposed to sympathise with a “mother” who let her 17 year old daughter go to town, get pissed and wander the streets. Sorry, no can do.
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:41 pm
The stupid little bitch…shes had her 15 minutes of fame…slapper slapper slapper…
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:55 pm
WTF, a professional writer has transcribed what must have been said as “equality before the law”, as “a quality before the law” ? Spellcheck has produced a generation of idiots.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm
billyborker
So have I got this right… It’s OK for a grown man to stand in an alley thinking to himself as a 17 year old rounds the corner …. We’re in the money here …. And just jam her face into his genitals?
That’s all good with you is it ?
(Mind you the guy wasn’t convicted so apparently it is OK by the courts as well…. celebrities in NZ are right up there with politicians aren’t they…. untouchable)
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:11 pm
So have I got this right… It’s OK for a grown man to stand in an alley thinking to himself as a 17 year old rounds the corner …. We’re in the money here …. And just jam her face into his genitals?
…if I may…theres more to it than that…it didnt happen that way and you know it…have another think about the bigger picture maybe…all concerned….
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm
OK who gave me the negative Karma ? Hell come over to my place and I’ll force you to perform oral sex on me then kick you so badly that I break your back. As long as I’m famous I’ll get away with both !
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Bigger picture starboard… It’s OK to violate 17 year old girls as long as you are famous… Yes we all understand that now.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:13 pm
silly billy borkers comment reflects his disturbed personality. Seems like famous dicks and big mouth Maori pollies are above the normal law of a balanced land.
Welcome to the land of the long lie.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:20 pm
look, if the slapper got slapped, whose fault is it?
If the mother is happy for her 17 yo daughter to go out on the piss then maybe they bOTH slappers.
But here we go again, jonkey will knee jerk again, just like with weatherstone, just like with herceptin, just like with Erebus.
We don’t have a Prime Minister, we have a Jerky Knee.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:21 pm
There are separate issues.
I’d be concerned about 17 year old females wandering the streets at the time, especially if it was my daughter – but it can be difficult keeping them under observation and at home all the time too. It can be bloody difficult.
Regardless of the above, it doesn’t excuse the behaviour as reported by the complainant and not disputed by the accused – he accepted responsibility. So it’s hard to argue anything other than he was being a sleazy bastard.
And if you want to talk about the morals of 17 year olds out at that time of night, what about a man with a family (was he married?) acting like that, far worse.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:23 pm
starboard and billyborker – I’m guessing neither of you have daughters, huh?
Peter – couldn’t agree more. No matter whether a 17-year-old girl should or should not be in town late at night, it does not excuse the actions of the, ahem, gentleman in question. If a man stumbles, late at night, into your path, is it OK to stab him with a kitchen knife, because you had a bad day at work?
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:26 pm
look…heres a famous guy ( in the eyes of some ) pissed, walking down the street…3 slappers say ” eh..how about a bit of of you know what “…guy thinks…heh heh christmas is here…walks down the ally with slappers…EVERYONE knows whats goin on…then someone crys foul….and then thinks..ahh theres some fame in this for me…Im gona nail this guy to the wall..and so it goes…tart gets no sympathy from me and the mother needs a specialist.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:28 pm
billyborker
I would be funny if you had a 17 year old daughter and she came home saying she had been violated… I can imagine your first question: Was he famous ? Because if he was then your daughter would be a slapper and if he wasn’t then it would be OK to see him charged and named.
What colour is the sky in your world billy ????
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Except Starboard, that is not the story as told and undisputed. You haven’t had a 17 year old daughter have you.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:30 pm
yes..one daughter…and I always know where she is.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
How old? And how do you know?
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
starboard
I hope your daughter is never a bit of a flirt with a famous person because if she is and things go a bit far for her liking you are going to have to call her a slapper and denigrate the little trollop for being the slut she really is….
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
pete george…maybe you should rephrase that nancy boy
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:33 pm
How old is she?
How do you always know where she is?
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:34 pm
starboard – heh, good luck with that! (speaking as an ex-17-year-old girl, who was categorically not a “slapper”, but wasn’t a homebody either.)
I am already nervous about how I will cope with the teenage years of any daughters I might, hypothetically, have. Tough job.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
but it can be difficult keeping them under observation and at home all the time too. It can be bloody difficult.
..well maybe you should look at the way you handle things…I have no problem..my daughter respects me and her Mother , and she does as she is asked.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
starboard
Were you there ? You said I don’t know what happened (which I don’t) then you went on to tell us exactly what happened… Were you in the money that night ?
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 pm
starboard
So if I said ‘suck this’ she just would…. not that she is a slapper or anything.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 pm
all I will say to you burt…and you apologist george…you both need to get out more.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:37 pm
How old is your daughter starboard?
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:39 pm
burt..she would laugh at your appendage..just like your mama did…
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:41 pm
I have two teenage daughters and I reckon the judge needs a brown eye on the bench !!!
I just gave myself a negative karma as too save big blouse another job. Borker vomit rhetoric as to be expected again and again….
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:48 pm
burt??..burt..??..was it something I said ?…burt ??
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I don’t need to do that to know that a lot of teenage girls go out at night, often getting pissed, and have no appreciation at all about the risks involved. Most teenagers don’t know what risk is.
And I know there a lot of males of just about any age who, especially when pissed, think anyone’s daughter except their own is fair game no matter what the circumstances, they are all asking for it.
And I also know that we have horrendous abuse, assault and sexual assault statistics, and the victims are all someone’s daughter.
17 would be one of the riskiest ages for girls and also one of the hardest ages for parents to deal with no matter how good they are as parents. You do everything you can, and hope like hell they get through that age relatively unscathed.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I have had a 17 year old daughter….more than once. Where the hell were their parents?
;-0
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
burt (3618) Vote: 3 2 Says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:28 pm
billyborker
I would be funny if you had a 17 year old daughter and she came home saying she had been violated
And if you’re 17 year old daughter came home and said “I’m preggers and god’s the daddy”, what would you say?
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:18 pm
god’s the daddy” = an example of the borker disturbance. Up the meds you insane twit.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:23 pm
alex has my meds
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Who is alex?
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:45 pm
a 17 year old slapper who holds my meds
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:49 pm
So you let a 17 year old young lady hold on to your medication. Do her parents know about this?
NB: Greg W.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:59 pm
billyborker
I would say; WTF did you do with the condoms I gave you just before you walked out the door ?
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:59 pm
I don’t know. Do you?
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:00 pm
I do not think Sir Geoffrey thinks very clearly on these issues. A celebrity I would have thought could easily show extreme hardship on name suppression. Ordinary Joe Blogs who firstly does not earn their income from public appearances, secondly no-one is all that interested in Joe Blogs so there is not much harm. A celebrity is quite different and will gets loads of publicity and should be able to show extreme hardship. Own goal in my mind.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:02 pm
“I don’t know. Do you?”
Are you trying to say Alex is my daughter borker?
NB: Greg Will….
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:02 pm
billy/starboard
People like having sex, end of story. In my experience only anally retentive folk who still hear their vicars voice saying ‘wait till you get married’ think girls enjoying their bodies are slappers.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:02 pm
The musician has a problem with drugs or alcohol in that he got into a state of intoxication where he committed a crime and has no recollection of the event. The criminal justice system may not be the best way to address his problems, but he’ll be back in the courts again if he doesn’t get straight (despite the references from his chums).
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:07 pm
burt, i am well aware people like having sex, so if a 17 yo slapper gets a bit, then regrets it, tough tits.
D4J, greg will what? Beat me up because you’re too much of a pussy whipped thug?
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:08 pm
fyi borker – he is a Chiristchurch Detective.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:10 pm
oooooooo a defective, now I am twuly wowwied you got me on th run
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:15 pm
You should have left the Kirsty teenager thing alone eh billy.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:17 pm
billyborker
Oh right, so if I force your daughter into something she is not happy with and say ‘she just regrets it’ she will get grounded for being a slapper and I’ll get name suppression… What century do you come from billy ? The victim is just a girl eh and she was asking for it….
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:21 pm
D4J, what ARE you on about? I just don’t understand you.
Let me sing yu a song.
Under the bridge downtown
Is where I drew some blood
Under the bridge downtown
I could not get enough
Under the bridge downtown
Forgot about my love
Under the bridge downtown
I gave my life away
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Clearly you are fucking deranged borker.
Goodnight. FFS.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Wassup? Don’t you like RHCP?
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:44 pm
You have a daughter starboard? You don’t sound fit to be a father.
December 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 am
this was sexual assault.
I’d say he got off very lightly. And, then to get name suppression on top of that, it’s disgraceful.
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
tristanb…if I want to hear from an arsehole I’ll fart ok.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
The girl is stupid to put herself in the situation she got in. I mean, who goes down the alleyway with friends and the musician at that time of the night. Surely if she was reading the signs right she would know what his intent was. Did she agree that he could kiss her? We know where kissing leads. I don’t feel sorry for this girl. If she had half a nut then she wouldn’t get herself in this situation. Did she do it just for the money and attention? Its a hard line I’m crossing but this is my opinion.
[DPF: You may have missed the interviews with her where she said she went down the alley to check if her friends were okay as she was worried about them]