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	<title>Comments on: Tax pros and cons</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: Ryan Sproull</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653988</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Sproull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653988</guid>
		<description>Tax pros?

I THOUGHT WE STARTED DOING THAT WHEN WE LEGALISED PROSTITUTION!

ZING! Thank you. Thank you.

I&#039;m also available for corporate functions and bar mitzvahs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tax pros?</p>
<p>I THOUGHT WE STARTED DOING THAT WHEN WE LEGALISED PROSTITUTION!</p>
<p>ZING! Thank you. Thank you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also available for corporate functions and bar mitzvahs.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeNZ</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653984</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeNZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653984</guid>
		<description>ahem
http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly213.htm

Key promised reductions not tax neutral.

http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/cagtr/pdf/tax-report-website.pdf
Page 16-17 is their list of problems but they miss one.
Making tax an ideological imperative not what is best for the economy against other economies we are in competition with.
We need to change the tax emvironment so that those economic warriors we have can compete properly internationally.
That means all socialistic ideology led taxes (envy) need to be repealed.

http://www.2025taskforce.govt.nz/pdfs/2025tf-1streport-nov09.pdf

so what needs to be done for the economic warriors we still have in NZ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ahem<br />
<a href="http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly213.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly213.htm</a></p>
<p>Key promised reductions not tax neutral.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/cagtr/pdf/tax-report-website.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/cagtr/pdf/tax-report-website.pdf</a><br />
Page 16-17 is their list of problems but they miss one.<br />
Making tax an ideological imperative not what is best for the economy against other economies we are in competition with.<br />
We need to change the tax emvironment so that those economic warriors we have can compete properly internationally.<br />
That means all socialistic ideology led taxes (envy) need to be repealed.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.2025taskforce.govt.nz/pdfs/2025tf-1streport-nov09.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.2025taskforce.govt.nz/pdfs/2025tf-1streport-nov09.pdf</a></p>
<p>so what needs to be done for the economic warriors we still have in NZ?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653976</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653976</guid>
		<description>No Red, common sense. The Tax Working Group didn&#039;t suggest it, the Brash 2025 report didn&#039;t suggest it, National haven&#039;t talked about it as a possibility, not sufficient evidence for them to consider it. So it ain&#039;t gonna happen. No point in bothering chasing after evidence for something that no one does and no one is likely to do.

Now if you could come up with compelling evidence that it could be successful you might change some minds....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Red, common sense. The Tax Working Group didn&#8217;t suggest it, the Brash 2025 report didn&#8217;t suggest it, National haven&#8217;t talked about it as a possibility, not sufficient evidence for them to consider it. So it ain&#8217;t gonna happen. No point in bothering chasing after evidence for something that no one does and no one is likely to do.</p>
<p>Now if you could come up with compelling evidence that it could be successful you might change some minds&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: dime</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653975</link>
		<dc:creator>dime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653975</guid>
		<description>NZ needs a new advertising campaign - &quot;Its ok to be wealthy&quot;. &quot;you should aspire to make money&quot; 

everything in this country is tailored to low income earners. fuck em. if youre on a low income, youre probably paying bugga all income tax. you income after rent/mortgage is say $300 a week - so apparently, $7.50 extra in GST is gonna kill these people. jesus.

Lets pump some cash into the pockets of people that will invest it and grow the goddam pie. drag the poor up kicking and screaming.



this whole thing is a scam anyway. taxes to offset lowering of other taxes ffs. 

Can someone form a new centre right party please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NZ needs a new advertising campaign &#8211; &#8220;Its ok to be wealthy&#8221;. &#8220;you should aspire to make money&#8221; </p>
<p>everything in this country is tailored to low income earners. fuck em. if youre on a low income, youre probably paying bugga all income tax. you income after rent/mortgage is say $300 a week &#8211; so apparently, $7.50 extra in GST is gonna kill these people. jesus.</p>
<p>Lets pump some cash into the pockets of people that will invest it and grow the goddam pie. drag the poor up kicking and screaming.</p>
<p>this whole thing is a scam anyway. taxes to offset lowering of other taxes ffs. </p>
<p>Can someone form a new centre right party please.</p>
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		<title>By: cha</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653971</link>
		<dc:creator>cha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653971</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...#Tax_resistance_in_Iudaea&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tax resistance in Iudaea&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...#Tax_resistance_in_Iudaea" rel="nofollow">Tax resistance in Iudaea</a></p>
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		<title>By: Redbaiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653970</link>
		<dc:creator>Redbaiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653970</guid>
		<description>&quot; Don’t need evidence to show that.&quot;

Thought so. The usual subjectively negative crap that typifies your response to any suggestion that runs counter to standard collectivist thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Don’t need evidence to show that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thought so. The usual subjectively negative crap that typifies your response to any suggestion that runs counter to standard collectivist thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653969</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653969</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t need evidence to show that. Evidence is need to show it could work for it to be considered seriously. There is none so it won&#039;t.

Recent attempts to implement partial poll taxes have not been successful. Neither was the 1381 attempt, which lead to revolt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t need evidence to show that. Evidence is need to show it could work for it to be considered seriously. There is none so it won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Recent attempts to implement partial poll taxes have not been successful. Neither was the 1381 attempt, which lead to revolt.</p>
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		<title>By: Redbaiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653968</link>
		<dc:creator>Redbaiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653968</guid>
		<description>&quot;in practice it is likely to be a disaster&quot;

Where&#039;s the evidence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;in practice it is likely to be a disaster&#8221;</p>
<p>Where&#8217;s the evidence?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653967</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653967</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t come up with anything and don&#039;t have a &quot;my lot&quot;. 

What we have is working, with room for improvement.

What Russia had early last century wasn&#039;t working and they changed radically to a new ideology - which turned out to be an awful failure.

Basing all tax on a single annual poll tax may seem to have some merits in theory, like communism, but in practice it is likely to be a disaster- and is as unlikely to be implemented as a communist revival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t come up with anything and don&#8217;t have a &#8220;my lot&#8221;. </p>
<p>What we have is working, with room for improvement.</p>
<p>What Russia had early last century wasn&#8217;t working and they changed radically to a new ideology &#8211; which turned out to be an awful failure.</p>
<p>Basing all tax on a single annual poll tax may seem to have some merits in theory, like communism, but in practice it is likely to be a disaster- and is as unlikely to be implemented as a communist revival.</p>
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		<title>By: Redbaiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653964</link>
		<dc:creator>Redbaiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653964</guid>
		<description>&quot; I haven’t seen anyone else suggesting taking all the tax eggs from a single basket.&quot;

Why do you think Kiwiblog readers would be intersted in observations relating to the blinkered mindset of a tired old one track collectivist?

&quot;Has it ever worked anywhere?&quot;

What you and your lot have come up with is sure as hell not working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; I haven’t seen anyone else suggesting taking all the tax eggs from a single basket.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why do you think Kiwiblog readers would be intersted in observations relating to the blinkered mindset of a tired old one track collectivist?</p>
<p>&#8220;Has it ever worked anywhere?&#8221;</p>
<p>What you and your lot have come up with is sure as hell not working.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete George</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653962</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653962</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Annual poll tax. No other answer. Everything else is just deckchairs on the Titanic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I haven&#039;t seen anyone else suggesting taking all the tax eggs from a single basket. Most talk of broadening the tax base.

Does any country operate on annual poll tax only? Has it ever worked anywhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Annual poll tax. No other answer. Everything else is just deckchairs on the Titanic.</p></blockquote>
<p>I haven&#8217;t seen anyone else suggesting taking all the tax eggs from a single basket. Most talk of broadening the tax base.</p>
<p>Does any country operate on annual poll tax only? Has it ever worked anywhere?</p>
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		<title>By: big bruv</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653958</link>
		<dc:creator>big bruv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653958</guid>
		<description>Anthony

Clearly you know little, I lived in the UK for seven years, for the entire time I paid council tax (poll tax), everybody pays council tax, it is a great system and means that every single person pays their share.

And please, don&#039;t give me that bullshit line about renters paying via their rent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony</p>
<p>Clearly you know little, I lived in the UK for seven years, for the entire time I paid council tax (poll tax), everybody pays council tax, it is a great system and means that every single person pays their share.</p>
<p>And please, don&#8217;t give me that bullshit line about renters paying via their rent.</p>
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		<title>By: Redbaiter</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653957</link>
		<dc:creator>Redbaiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653957</guid>
		<description>Annual poll tax. No other answer. Everything else is just deckchairs on the Titanic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annual poll tax. No other answer. Everything else is just deckchairs on the Titanic.</p>
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		<title>By: bchapman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653954</link>
		<dc:creator>bchapman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653954</guid>
		<description>If you wanted to reduce Land Tax/Council Rates you could. But then you would have to transfer infrastructure costs (fixing stormwater/potholes/footpaths) which is what most of your rates pay for, to the NZ Government. They would more than likely move to user pays. Might work but would be expensive to administer from Wellington. Either way someone, who they can extract the money from, will have to pay for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you wanted to reduce Land Tax/Council Rates you could. But then you would have to transfer infrastructure costs (fixing stormwater/potholes/footpaths) which is what most of your rates pay for, to the NZ Government. They would more than likely move to user pays. Might work but would be expensive to administer from Wellington. Either way someone, who they can extract the money from, will have to pay for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint Heine</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653940</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Heine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653940</guid>
		<description>Err Anthony, council taxes that were bought on by this horrid Labour Govt is killing residents. I think in comparison the poll tax may have been nicer to us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Err Anthony, council taxes that were bought on by this horrid Labour Govt is killing residents. I think in comparison the poll tax may have been nicer to us!</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653863</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 04:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653863</guid>
		<description>I would like a residential landlord to show me just how residential properties can actually give a reasonable return at current prices if it wasn&#039;t for the tax advantages that are able to be gained.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like a residential landlord to show me just how residential properties can actually give a reasonable return at current prices if it wasn&#8217;t for the tax advantages that are able to be gained.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653861</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 04:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653861</guid>
		<description>You have obviously learned nothing from history Big Bruv - trying to impose a poll tax in the UK was Maggie Thatcher&#039;s downfall.  Poll taxes just don&#039;t work and rates are largely passed onto tenants of rental properties anyway.  That doesn&#039;t mean that the loss of the landlord&#039;s tax subsidy can be passed onto tenants though as of course its impact will vary according to the landlord - and the loss is just as likely to lead to a fall in the purchase price of rental properties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have obviously learned nothing from history Big Bruv &#8211; trying to impose a poll tax in the UK was Maggie Thatcher&#8217;s downfall.  Poll taxes just don&#8217;t work and rates are largely passed onto tenants of rental properties anyway.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that the loss of the landlord&#8217;s tax subsidy can be passed onto tenants though as of course its impact will vary according to the landlord &#8211; and the loss is just as likely to lead to a fall in the purchase price of rental properties.</p>
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		<title>By: big bruv</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653841</link>
		<dc:creator>big bruv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653841</guid>
		<description>I take it this working group was only told to look at taxes on a national level.

For some time now I have thought that the most unfair tax in NZ is council rates.

Those of us who own property subsidise everybody in a state house and all private rental properties, the sooner we introduce a &#039;poll tax&#039; the better.

We all use the toilet, wash and use public facilities, so, we should all be made to pay for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take it this working group was only told to look at taxes on a national level.</p>
<p>For some time now I have thought that the most unfair tax in NZ is council rates.</p>
<p>Those of us who own property subsidise everybody in a state house and all private rental properties, the sooner we introduce a &#8216;poll tax&#8217; the better.</p>
<p>We all use the toilet, wash and use public facilities, so, we should all be made to pay for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653835</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653835</guid>
		<description>Avalon - you don&#039;t know what you are talking about.  I used to work for IRD and know full well there is a provision taxing the gain on sale of land if it was purchased if the intention of resale.  However, it is very difficult to prove intent and the case law that has built up around the provision virtually guarantees that 99 percent of property investors will not get caught by it!  The provision needs scraping and replacing with something workable - like if you have claimed a tax loss while owning the property then you will get taxed on any gain when you sell it!  

Of course depreciation on buildings needs to go too as any building that is maintained is very unlikely to depreciate in nominal terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avalon &#8211; you don&#8217;t know what you are talking about.  I used to work for IRD and know full well there is a provision taxing the gain on sale of land if it was purchased if the intention of resale.  However, it is very difficult to prove intent and the case law that has built up around the provision virtually guarantees that 99 percent of property investors will not get caught by it!  The provision needs scraping and replacing with something workable &#8211; like if you have claimed a tax loss while owning the property then you will get taxed on any gain when you sell it!  </p>
<p>Of course depreciation on buildings needs to go too as any building that is maintained is very unlikely to depreciate in nominal terms.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeNZ</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/01/tax_pros_and_cons.html#comment-653820</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeNZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40042#comment-653820</guid>
		<description>what a load of codswallop.

Where are we going with all this?
That&#039;s what I want to know, what is the snapshot in the future?
What is the goal?
What is our intention 5, 10 yrs out?
20% flat tax?
No tax and gst only?

the changes must be Tax neutral, what a load of bollocks.
we want lower taxes for everyone, not just me.
we&#039;re fed up being the 10% who pay 70 odd% of the tax after the middle class benefit WFF is taken into account!

This whole discussion is rubbish unless we talk about what we can axe from the budget and lower our spending to fit a reduced tax take.
VOTE Party Vote ACT, you know they make sense :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what a load of codswallop.</p>
<p>Where are we going with all this?<br />
That&#8217;s what I want to know, what is the snapshot in the future?<br />
What is the goal?<br />
What is our intention 5, 10 yrs out?<br />
20% flat tax?<br />
No tax and gst only?</p>
<p>the changes must be Tax neutral, what a load of bollocks.<br />
we want lower taxes for everyone, not just me.<br />
we&#8217;re fed up being the 10% who pay 70 odd% of the tax after the middle class benefit WFF is taken into account!</p>
<p>This whole discussion is rubbish unless we talk about what we can axe from the budget and lower our spending to fit a reduced tax take.<br />
VOTE Party Vote ACT, you know they make sense <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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