General Debate 16 February 2010

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Pete George

To Christians isn’t God ultimately responsible for every violent death? Or everyone that sins (which is everyone) is responsible for all crap that happens? Is God also responsible for pointless arguments?
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February 17, 2010 9:32am
Shunda barunda

“Redbirther, care to cite a source for that? No doubt you plucked the figure from the same place you keep plucking your other lies.”

People that used ideology to supposedly progress the human race killed more people in one century than Christianity did in 2000 years.
Political and social ideology is more destructive than religion.
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February 17, 2010 9:33am
LeftRightOut

Shunda, odd how the defenders of religion always say “Christianity didn’t kill that many” when to get a true picture, one needs to tally up all the deaths in the name of all religions, not just one. And that was the basis of my Q to redbirther as well, does he count all religuious deaths, or if people weren’t killed by christians then religion wasn’t the cause?

religion is the single most destructive force in humanity.

And, in case you’ve forgotten, there are oodles of christians who credit god with all manner of natural disasters.
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February 17, 2010 9:39am
Shunda barunda

“religion is the single most destructive force in humanity.”

No it isn’t.
Your blinkered view of history just does not wash.
There is no evidence what so ever that religion is more destructive than any other manifestation of human thought.
There is however massive evidence for the extremely destructive forces of secular political and social ideology, these are the most destructive influences humans have endured in our entire existence.
Your personal dislike of religion changes nothing.
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February 17, 2010 9:48am
Chthoniid

There is however massive evidence for the extremely destructive forces of secular political and social ideology, these are the most destructive influences humans have endured in our entire existence.

Hmm, I’m not sure you understand what secularism means.

Any violent ideology- a view that it is more important than individual life and liberty- that readily classes people as enemies of that ideology (heretics, pagans, capitalists, jews, infidels) etc is destructive when twinned with political power and killing tools. And the sad fact of Christianity is that it has too often, been violent and reactionary.

Secularism is a humanist ideal, not a destructive.
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February 17, 2010 10:04am
Shunda barunda

“Secularism is a humanist ideal, not a destructive.”

So the search for a “final solution” to religion is not going to be potentially destructive?
There is nothing new under the sun, just people that think they are too smart to fall into the same old traps, but they always do.
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February 17, 2010 10:14am
Chthoniid

Could you elaborate, I have no idea where you are going with that point about ‘final solution’?

I’d certainly be disappointed if you are making the comparison I think you are.
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February 17, 2010 10:17am
Shunda barunda

George Holyoake, the guy that first came up with the term “secularism” said :

“Secularism is not an argument against Christianity, it is one independent of it. It does not question the pretensions of Christianity; it advances others. Secularism does not say there is no light or guidance elsewhere, but maintains that there is light and guidance in secular truth, whose conditions and sanctions exist independently, and act forever.”

I am ok with this, in fact I believe it to be a necessary position of government and the doctrine of Christian free will.

What I am not ok with is secular humanists like Dawkins and friends being unhappy to just leave it there, they feel the need to go on a crusade against religion, specifically Christianity, and are hell bent on pinning all the worlds ills on religion.

They are pursuing a final solution for much the same reasons as others have pursued final solutions. The difference is they are so blinded by their own glory and perceived brilliance that they can’t see it.
But their followers will.
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February 17, 2010 10:34am

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