General Debate 17 February 2010

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Bok2

Watching the religion of AGW slowly die, is a long slow process.

But by god it is good to see that humans can only be fed so much bullshit before they say enough!

The scale of bullying and scare and fear tactics these people used to silence their critics, becomes clear when you see how many now
come out of the woodwork and say “but I said this was nonsense years ago” Once the bully was given a blood nose… the cowering stopped.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7026317.ece
““The temperature records cannot be relied on as indicators of global change,” said John Christy, professor of atmospheric science at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, a former lead author on the IPCC.

and

The IPCC faces similar criticisms from Ross McKitrick, professor of economics at the University of Guelph, Canada, who was invited by the panel to review its last report.

The experience turned him into a strong critic and he has since published a research paper questioning its methods.

“We concluded, with overwhelming statistical significance, that the IPCC’s climate data are contaminated with surface effects from industrialisation and data quality problems. These add up to a large warming bias,” he said.

also

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/15/hatton_on_hurricanes/

The scientists are speaking…..
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February 17, 2010 8:51am
mickysavage

bOK2

This was thrashed at the Standard yesterday.

Blip did a bit of research.

Well worth a read. Your supposed experts are nutters.
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February 17, 2010 9:00am
dime

HAHA keep fighting the good fight micky. the dream is over.

i love when the left start discrediting threats. they are gonna be busy as more and more scientists start telling us global warming is a scam.
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February 17, 2010 9:13am
Redbaiter

I read here yesterday that some ignorant of history socialist moron had mistaken me for a Libertarian. A recent post on Crusader Rabbit should clear that one up.

I am a Conservative you sad philistine, and we are the true advocates of liberty and were so long before the Libertarians ever started treading on our traditional political ground in an attempt to make a name for themselves.

http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/
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February 17, 2010 9:14am
philu

“..Freefall is primarily an autopsy of the financial crisis.

Stiglitz details in layman’s terms how financial deregulation encouraged the banking sector to favor maximizing private revenues over managing social risk: ..

.. economic growth was based on exorbitant debt that fed a consumption binge.

But Stiglitz also dissects the relationship between the two major economic shifts of the past three decades–

— globalization and financialization, or the transformation of the financial sector into the primary engine of economic growth.

Decades of prosperity and economic interconnectivity bred by bad ideas about the inherent virtues of free markets ..

.. resulted in a stunning economic collapse–and the bankruptcy of market fundamentalism..”

discuss..!

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/with-freefall-america-free-markets-and-the-sinking-of-the-world-economy-joseph-stiglitz-has-written-an-indispensable-history-of-the-emergence-of-market-fundamentalism-or-economism-in-the-united-states/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 17, 2010 9:23am
Bok2

So Mickey A bunch of NZ blog commentators comes up with personal attacks on people with ten times the qualifications and experience they have… how unusual…

Let’s see. “professor of economics at the University of Guelph, Canada, who was invited by the panel to review its last report.” becomes a pet boffin…

you really come to a gun fight with a knife don’t you?

But Mickey you know what/ I have children who are now adults, but I remember well the days when my son was about 13 and we discussed music. The fact that I have spent most of my working life in production of media carried no weight, he “knew” Dave Navaro was just the fastest guitarist around …. just listen!!!! Double tracking had nothing to do with it.

I quickly learned that with some children, you just don’t argue facts….

After seeing your post yesterday about an event that was predicted two years ago and never happened (iceless polar region) and the childlike attack of yourself and blip, on these scientists (the bullying is over son).. I have a sense of Deja Vu.
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February 17, 2010 9:23am
Chicken Little

Whats the Standard?

Oh the NUMBER 3 political blog in the country. Looks like the Whale is kicking some butt. Heh.

Anyone think it’s strange that ALL the problems being exposed with AGW, specifically IPCC AR4, are on the side of overestimating the warming and associated problems. What are the odds if these are genuine errors of all of them going in that direction?

Strange also that none of the Lefties like Mickey seem particularly happy that things might have been over egged and we may not be in as bad a state as has been claimed. You’d think normal human reaction would be relief that our children and grandchildren will be around to make a future, but no, they’re not happy at all, in fact they just want to scream everyone down.

I wonder why?
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February 17, 2010 9:24am
Eddie

As Mickey points out, this was thrashed at the Standard yesterday. They are all having a cigarette and spooning at this moment basking in the warm afterglow of AGW nirvana.
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February 17, 2010 9:25am
Doug

MickyMouse:
If you think Iprent is an authority on Climate Change you would have to be joking right.
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February 17, 2010 9:26am
freethinker

Received this interesting and thought provoking article from the Australian Money Morning people – has some relevance to NZ borrowings and the taxation proposals:-

Why Greece Must do the Right Thing and Default

“Debt has to be repaid in the future” – that’s the sort of statement we’ve written once or twice.

We’ve written it in connection with all the taxpayer funded government spending plans. Those dopey schemes which involve taking from taxpayers today – taxation – or taking from taxpayers in the future – government debt.

Even the mainstream press has pointed out borrowing and spending can’t go on forever. Except that being gutless and fearful of losing advertisers and readers they bottle it, and give the readers what they want to hear.

That mean they come to the conclusion that we can worry about it another time, the important thing to do now is SPEND!

But here’s something you won’t read in the lame mainstream press. It’s the idea that we would all be much better off if government’s just defaulted on their debts.

I know it sounds crazy. Mainstream commentators will tell you that would be disastrous. That a country defaulting on its debt would spell the end for it. Yet funnily enough, a government defaulting on its debt is the best thing all-round.

You see, the impact of such a default would only be felt in the short term, and the major downside would only be felt by those that are owed money.

Everyone else would be better off. And longer term, perhaps even those that lost out in the short term would be better off too.

But aside from the economic benefits of a debt default, there’s a moral benefit too.

I mean, think about what government borrowing is. It’s a debt incurred by the government for it to spend on things that you may not want. Not only is the government taking the debt out in your name but it’s also forcing you to repay it.

Even though you may not have derived any benefit from the debt either directly or indirectly.

But anyway, even if you have received a benefit from it, so what. If you give someone something to use for ‘free’ you can hardly expect them to pay for it later. Why would they. They’ve received it for free in the past and therefore that’s the value they’ve attributed to it.

And arguing that they are obliged to pay for it just because they’ve used it isn’t right either. They used the service when it was free. If they knew they were going to be charged for it they may not have used it.

But let’s take the situation in Greece as an example of how crazy things are. The government has taken on billions of Euros worth of debt, supposedly to finance government spending.
Australian government spending 50% of GDP

Spending which runs at around 40% of GDP. In Australia, well, if we take total federal, state and local government spending, then as a proportion of GDP government spending is around 49.8% of the Australian economy.

In other words, for every $1 spent in Australia, 49.8 cents of it is by the government. And mainstream economists and commentators try and tell you Australia is a free market economy – bulldust!

Here’s a selection of the numbers:
• Federal government – $324 billion
• Australian Capital Territory – $3.6 billion
• Northern Territory – $4 billion
• Tasmania – $4.3 billion
• Western Australia – $21 billion
• South Australia – $14 billion
• Queensland – $39 billion
• New South Wales – $62 billion
• Victoria – $43 billion
All up, it’s around $515 billion of annual government spending.

Now, I can’t tell you whether the Greek numbers include regional government spending or not, but whatever, total Australian government spending is huge – whichever way you look at it.

As I’ve mentioned above, maybe Greek citizens have received many benefits from the spending. Perhaps they have received extra services from the government, or extra welfare payments.

However, as is now obvious, none of those services or payments were affordable, and based on the reaction from the public, there were services people now don’t want to pay for.

The fact is, the Greek government just kept borrowing money in the belief that it would either somehow magically get the money back, or that it could just keep rolling the debt over, never having to pay it back.
GoldmanSachs at it again

And if we refer to the New York Times article from the weekend it looks as though they were happy to put it on the ‘never-never.’ Our friends at GoldmanSachs strike again!

The reason no one wants to pay for all the things the government gave away for free is because ‘paying’ for those things involves the government making cuts to its budget. And that means government workers being thrown out of their jobs.

Even though it’s possible some of those workers wouldn’t have been in government jobs without the borrowing and spending, they don’t want to hear that. In other words, the masses want their cake plus they want to eat it too… and again tomorrow.

And on the other side the government is trying to do its best ‘Jesus and the five loaves and two fish’ impersonation. And it’s failed miserably.

Of course the other option when you’re hard up, is to try and get someone else to pay for your spending spree for you.

In the case of the Greek government, it’s decided that a jolly good idea would be to let the German taxpayers pay for all the extra services and welfare payments the Greeks have enjoyed.

Now, we’re pretty sure that Herr Schmidt in Dusseldorf and Frau Klinsmann in Stuttgart didn’t receive much of the benefits the Greek government lauded on its citizens in recent years.

Yet despite that Herr Schmidt and Frau Klinsmann are being presented with the bill.

The way we look at it is, can you imagine going to a restaurant, and as you’re sat enjoying your meal you notice two fat oafs in the corner scoffing down every item on the menu?

Then when they’ve finished, the waiter approaches them with the bill only to be told they can’t afford it. Instead they tell the waiter to add the cost to your bill.

And just like Herr Schmidt and Frau Klinsmann no one bothers asking you whether it’s OK. You just have to do as you’re told and pay for it. Because if you don’t then the consequences will be all your fault – you’re so selfish!

That’s where you have to look past the economics and ask yourself whether something is moral. Forcing Germans to pay for Greek – or anyone else’s – debts is completely immoral.
Who should pay?

In fact, now we think of it, is it any more moral to force the Greek population to repay the debt? I mean, although the Greeks may have received the benefits, they did so on the assumption the benefits were affordable and that they were free – even though we know nothing is free when the money to pay for it is being stolen from your wallet through taxation.

Furthermore, it’s clear that whatever benefits they received in years past don’t rate highly enough for them to accept the demand for payment now.

Therefore there’s only one possible outcome to the Greek debt problem. And that’s for the government to default on its debt obligations.

It’s pretty simple really. And you can consider the old saying of “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”

It’s wrong of governments to forcibly tax the population and it’s wrong of the government to go into debt in the name of the taxpayer. That’s the first set of wrongs.

Yet, it’s equally wrong to then force the people to repay the debt which they didn’t authorise in the first place. Whether they received something in return is irrelevant.

And it’s most definitely wrong to force the population of another country to repay the debt as well.

But what about the creditors? Surely they entered the bargain in good faith. Shouldn’t their side of the deal be honoured?

Well, that certainly does complicate things. But only for a second…

Because the simple answer is that sure they should be made good on their investment, but not by the taxpayer.
All taxation is theft

If you consider taxation to be the theft of private property by the government then surely it isn’t right that the theft is nullified if the government sales the debt to a third party. It’s still theft.

Just as if someone steals your television set from your home. If the thief then sales it onto someone else that doesn’t extinguish your right to have the property returned.

Even though the third person paid for the TV set in good faith it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t get your property back.

That’s what happens when a government sales debt. In effect it’s selling part of your future earnings in return for an investor giving the government money today. If you like, the investor is in receipt of future stolen goods.

So if the taxpayer doesn’t pay, who does? The most obvious way is either the creditors are told to get stuffed, or the creditors are able to claim a charge over government assets, liquidate them and then sale them to recover the value of their investment.

Of course, this still isn’t the perfect outcome as nominally those ‘public’ assets are supposedly owned by the public.

The other option is for the politicians and public servants who aid and abet the theft to be made personally responsible for making good the creditors’ claims.

The upshot is that taxation is the legalised theft of private property – your wages – by a coercive government. Forcing taxpayers to pay for that theft with more taxes (more theft) is unquestionably more immoral than seeing the bond investors lose money through a debt default.

That’s why the Greek government and every other government should take the only course of action that is morally and economically right, and that is to default on its debt.

You never know, it just might happen.
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February 17, 2010 9:28am
Johnboy

There won’t be much posting at the Stranded today isn’t Auntie getting her undeserved medal up at the Gov’s place?
The team will all be there oozing their drool over her.
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February 17, 2010 9:29am
freethinker

Received this interesting & thought provoking letter from the Australian Money Morning people, has some relevance to NZ borrowing and taxation proposals:-
Why Greece Must do the Right Thing and Default

“Debt has to be repaid in the future” – that’s the sort of statement we’ve written once or twice.

We’ve written it in connection with all the taxpayer funded government spending plans. Those dopey schemes which involve taking from taxpayers today – taxation – or taking from taxpayers in the future – government debt.

Even the mainstream press has pointed out borrowing and spending can’t go on forever. Except that being gutless and fearful of losing advertisers and readers they bottle it, and give the readers what they want to hear.

That mean they come to the conclusion that we can worry about it another time, the important thing to do now is SPEND!

But here’s something you won’t read in the lame mainstream press. It’s the idea that we would all be much better off if government’s just defaulted on their debts.

I know it sounds crazy. Mainstream commentators will tell you that would be disastrous. That a country defaulting on its debt would spell the end for it. Yet funnily enough, a government defaulting on its debt is the best thing all-round.

You see, the impact of such a default would only be felt in the short term, and the major downside would only be felt by those that are owed money.

Everyone else would be better off. And longer term, perhaps even those that lost out in the short term would be better off too.

But aside from the economic benefits of a debt default, there’s a moral benefit too.

I mean, think about what government borrowing is. It’s a debt incurred by the government for it to spend on things that you may not want. Not only is the government taking the debt out in your name but it’s also forcing you to repay it.

Even though you may not have derived any benefit from the debt either directly or indirectly.

But anyway, even if you have received a benefit from it, so what. If you give someone something to use for ‘free’ you can hardly expect them to pay for it later. Why would they. They’ve received it for free in the past and therefore that’s the value they’ve attributed to it.

And arguing that they are obliged to pay for it just because they’ve used it isn’t right either. They used the service when it was free. If they knew they were going to be charged for it they may not have used it.

But let’s take the situation in Greece as an example of how crazy things are. The government has taken on billions of Euros worth of debt, supposedly to finance government spending.
Australian government spending 50% of GDP

Spending which runs at around 40% of GDP. In Australia, well, if we take total federal, state and local government spending, then as a proportion of GDP government spending is around 49.8% of the Australian economy.

In other words, for every $1 spent in Australia, 49.8 cents of it is by the government. And mainstream economists and commentators try and tell you Australia is a free market economy – bulldust!

Here’s a selection of the numbers:
• Federal government – $324 billion
• Australian Capital Territory – $3.6 billion
• Northern Territory – $4 billion
• Tasmania – $4.3 billion
• Western Australia – $21 billion
• South Australia – $14 billion
• Queensland – $39 billion
• New South Wales – $62 billion
• Victoria – $43 billion
All up, it’s around $515 billion of annual government spending.

Now, I can’t tell you whether the Greek numbers include regional government spending or not, but whatever, total Australian government spending is huge – whichever way you look at it.

As I’ve mentioned above, maybe Greek citizens have received many benefits from the spending. Perhaps they have received extra services from the government, or extra welfare payments.

However, as is now obvious, none of those services or payments were affordable, and based on the reaction from the public, there were services people now don’t want to pay for.

The fact is, the Greek government just kept borrowing money in the belief that it would either somehow magically get the money back, or that it could just keep rolling the debt over, never having to pay it back.
GoldmanSachs at it again

And if we refer to the New York Times article from the weekend it looks as though they were happy to put it on the ‘never-never.’ Our friends at GoldmanSachs strike again!

The reason no one wants to pay for all the things the government gave away for free is because ‘paying’ for those things involves the government making cuts to its budget. And that means government workers being thrown out of their jobs.

Even though it’s possible some of those workers wouldn’t have been in government jobs without the borrowing and spending, they don’t want to hear that. In other words, the masses want their cake plus they want to eat it too… and again tomorrow.

And on the other side the government is trying to do its best ‘Jesus and the five loaves and two fish’ impersonation. And it’s failed miserably.

Of course the other option when you’re hard up, is to try and get someone else to pay for your spending spree for you.

In the case of the Greek government, it’s decided that a jolly good idea would be to let the German taxpayers pay for all the extra services and welfare payments the Greeks have enjoyed.

Now, we’re pretty sure that Herr Schmidt in Dusseldorf and Frau Klinsmann in Stuttgart didn’t receive much of the benefits the Greek government lauded on its citizens in recent years.

Yet despite that Herr Schmidt and Frau Klinsmann are being presented with the bill.

The way we look at it is, can you imagine going to a restaurant, and as you’re sat enjoying your meal you notice two fat oafs in the corner scoffing down every item on the menu?

Then when they’ve finished, the waiter approaches them with the bill only to be told they can’t afford it. Instead they tell the waiter to add the cost to your bill.

And just like Herr Schmidt and Frau Klinsmann no one bothers asking you whether it’s OK. You just have to do as you’re told and pay for it. Because if you don’t then the consequences will be all your fault – you’re so selfish!

That’s where you have to look past the economics and ask yourself whether something is moral. Forcing Germans to pay for Greek – or anyone else’s – debts is completely immoral.
Who should pay?

In fact, now we think of it, is it any more moral to force the Greek population to repay the debt? I mean, although the Greeks may have received the benefits, they did so on the assumption the benefits were affordable and that they were free – even though we know nothing is free when the money to pay for it is being stolen from your wallet through taxation.

Furthermore, it’s clear that whatever benefits they received in years past don’t rate highly enough for them to accept the demand for payment now.

Therefore there’s only one possible outcome to the Greek debt problem. And that’s for the government to default on its debt obligations.

It’s pretty simple really. And you can consider the old saying of “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”

It’s wrong of governments to forcibly tax the population and it’s wrong of the government to go into debt in the name of the taxpayer. That’s the first set of wrongs.

Yet, it’s equally wrong to then force the people to repay the debt which they didn’t authorise in the first place. Whether they received something in return is irrelevant.

And it’s most definitely wrong to force the population of another country to repay the debt as well.

But what about the creditors? Surely they entered the bargain in good faith. Shouldn’t their side of the deal be honoured?

Well, that certainly does complicate things. But only for a second…

Because the simple answer is that sure they should be made good on their investment, but not by the taxpayer.
All taxation is theft

If you consider taxation to be the theft of private property by the government then surely it isn’t right that the theft is nullified if the government sales the debt to a third party. It’s still theft.

Just as if someone steals your television set from your home. If the thief then sales it onto someone else that doesn’t extinguish your right to have the property returned.

Even though the third person paid for the TV set in good faith it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t get your property back.

That’s what happens when a government sales debt. In effect it’s selling part of your future earnings in return for an investor giving the government money today. If you like, the investor is in receipt of future stolen goods.

So if the taxpayer doesn’t pay, who does? The most obvious way is either the creditors are told to get stuffed, or the creditors are able to claim a charge over government assets, liquidate them and then sale them to recover the value of their investment.

Of course, this still isn’t the perfect outcome as nominally those ‘public’ assets are supposedly owned by the public.

The other option is for the politicians and public servants who aid and abet the theft to be made personally responsible for making good the creditors’ claims.

The upshot is that taxation is the legalised theft of private property – your wages – by a coercive government. Forcing taxpayers to pay for that theft with more taxes (more theft) is unquestionably more immoral than seeing the bond investors lose money through a debt default.

That’s why the Greek government and every other government should take the only course of action that is morally and economically right, and that is to default on its debt.

You never know, it just might happen.
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February 17, 2010 9:30am
Eddie

Philu

Where to start. Where to end. More importantly, what to do now.

Discuss.

Eddie
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February 17, 2010 9:30am
Pete George

I am a Conservative you sad philistine, and we are the true advocates of liberty…

….for anyone who doesn’t question their narrow inflexible bullshit? I’m conservative in some ways but not in others. So what.

What is “Liberty” anyway, beyond a self righteous slogan?
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February 17, 2010 9:36am
jims_whare

quote: mickey

“This was thrashed at the Standard yesterday”

Yeah like the Standard is the fount of all scientific wisdom and knowledge. The standard will end up stranded if they keep preaching the dying religion of warmism. I know your former high priestess of warminising is back in town (H1) but you have to realise that she has acended to the higher plane of consciousness at the UN and so has no awareness of what small fry like yourselves are bleating about.

I know how the standard will deal with this: As time goes on and as the warminising cult dissapates from public awareness the subject will start being ignored and the standard bleaters will concentrate on more important matters such as John Key’s signature or on how to expand the public service or the joys of tax increases or what else shall we ban?

Face it Mickey warmies are a dying breed, not undone by climategate, or Phil jones, but simply coz people aren’t stupid and know that record cold weather does not equal global heat terror.
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February 17, 2010 9:40am
Redbaiter

“What is “Liberty” anyway?”

Of course, always a concept that completley eludes Progressives and never enters any mental equaiton they might apply to their political needs.

“I’m conservative in some ways”

You’re a stone cold Secular Progressive, and as history has shown, always the biggest danger to liberty. 100 million deaths world wide are testament to this fact.
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February 17, 2010 9:40am
Pete George

Just because you apply a label doesn’t mean anything. What is a Secular Progressive supposed to be? Anyone RB disagrees with seems to be about it.

Why am I a danger to liberty? I’m not responsible for any deaths.

I could just as easily say that you are a wannabe dictator, does that make you responsible for all deaths caused by dictators? Or just the deaths you keep wishing for?
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February 17, 2010 9:46am
Pete George

According to O’Reilly, the “Secular Progressive Movement” is a minority left wing group of Americans

You seem to be trying to transplant a minority accusation in the US to a majority problem here. Doesn’t fit. Reds under the bed is a bit last century but so is the whole approach. Try digging yourself out of an old ideological hole.

I guess you can’t try and construct a New Zealand revolution without trying to make up the good side and the bad side. It all seems a bit pathetic and out of touch with reality to me.
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February 17, 2010 9:54am
cha

An article on the influence in the tea party movement of the conspiracy theorists and militias and the rhetoric promoting a violent civil war.

Tea Party Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right
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February 17, 2010 9:55am
Bed Rater

Red’s a religous nutjob who has been arguing on the internet for far too long. Thats the extent of my knowledge on the old codger, everything else is irrelevant.
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February 17, 2010 10:07am
LeftRightOut

I’m still waiting to see Sarah Palin’s birth certificate and to find out why she needed 5 different colleges before she could find one to pass her. The only explanation for the moves so far is that two changes were so she could follow her lesbian lover, the second 2 changes were to follow men, only one of whom became her husband. Of course, her loose sexual mores have been passed on to her children. Is a serial rooter suitable to be POTUS? yOU BETCHA?

Actually, what’s the difference between “yes we can” and “you betcha”?
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February 17, 2010 10:22am
dime

“Is a serial rooter suitable to be POTUS?”

well kennedy and clinton are loved by the left.

or are the left sexist now – men that fuck a lot of women are legends but the women are sluts?
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February 17, 2010 10:33am
Repton

Tea Party Movement Hopelessly Divided Into Enraged, Apoplectic Factions
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February 17, 2010 10:49am
LeftRightOut

Dime, did you miss the You Betcha?
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February 17, 2010 10:53am
Bok2

The left makes me laugh..
“The only explanation for the moves so far is that two changes were so she could follow her lesbian lover”
This bigotry is up there with this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FroiTCXN3xU

Why is it that those who pretend to have a social conscience are invariably the ones dwelling in the sewer.
Like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjJTSSdkqJk&feature=player_embedded

Leftrightout you write this on your site: “I am happy to have a broad church attend and expect vigorous exchanges of views, but insult laden, content free posts are not welcome and will be deleted or derided, as I see fit.”

You sad neanderthal.
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February 17, 2010 10:57am
Murray

mickey your suposed experts are liars and fraudsters. Al Gore your High Priest of Hysteria has been found guilty of lying in court already.

Your “science” is not like our earth science.
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February 17, 2010 11:17am
dime

I may have 😛
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February 17, 2010 11:25am
Jack5

philu, Philip (Man)Ure is back haunting us I see.

Well philu, have you anything to say about the portrayal of the pro-marijuana campaigner’s depiction in the TV1 documentary last night about his murderer son?

The marijuana cult played a big part in the moulding of this young criminal, didn’t it, philu?
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February 17, 2010 11:45am
kaya

cha @ 9.55 – good to see the Americans finally waking up to what is going on, the first big step was working out it wasn’t a republican or a democrat thing. That’s just a smokescreen. The oldest rule in the book is divide and rule.
With all that talk of abolishing or auditing the Fed could almost make you think they’ve watched Zeitgeist Addendum……..

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act” – George Orwell
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February 17, 2010 12:08pm
Redbaiter

” insult laden, content free posts are not welcome and will be deleted ”

..and with these half educated well indoctrinated knuckle dragging ignorant of history communist robots, anything that disparages socialism or criticizes socialists conveniently falls into the category of “insult”.

They lie when they say they want a “broad church”. All they ever want to hear from is people who think and speak like them, and in their delusional world, nobody else exists.
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February 17, 2010 12:18pm
LeftRightOut

Geeze redbirther, sounds exactly like you.

No news but Fox news,

No opinions but those fox news gives you.

No idea of a better way ahead, just “You betcha!”and “Can I still see russia from Washington?”.

No education, over indoctrinated knuckle dragging afraid of progress right wing robots who cannot abide any criticism of Queen Sarah and her quest to drag America back 500 years.

Gotta laugh at how ernest the gullible tepartybirthers truly are. YOU BETCHA!
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February 17, 2010 12:24pm
kaya

If you mention the words “cashless society” you are immediately written off as a conspiracy theory nutjob.

From Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61824V20100209

One of the Greek economic reform measures, Feb 9th 2010:

“From 1. Jan. 2011, every transaction above 1,500 euros between natural persons and businesses, or between businesses, will not be considered legal if it is done in cash. Transactions will have to be done through debit or credit cards”

Get the pitchforks sharpened.
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February 17, 2010 12:34pm
Bok2

Leftrightout

“No education, over indoctrinated knuckle dragging afraid of progress right wing robots who cannot abide any criticism of Queen Sarah and her quest to drag America back 500 years.”

yet you have a homophobic attack on Palin (Who is a clutz, but still a human being)

Let me guess. You were abused as a child? That is why you have such hatred and low self esteem? Is that why you anonymously have a crack at people’s sexual preferences? Why this fascination and voyeuristic attitude to others sexual habit?

Let me quote just one of your posts and count the references…

1) “follow her lesbian lover”
2) “to follow men”
3) “only one of whom became her husband”
4) “her loose sexual mores”
5) “serial rooter suitable to be POTUS?”

So 5 references in 5 lines of text…. you have a problem.
But then you take it a step further by involving her children…..

I have grave concerns for those in the community who is considered to be weaker. People like you tend to be very dangerous to them.

You talk about dragging America back 500 years… you have not moved on from 3 billion years ago, when the likes of you slithered out of the mud…..

Funny you are not. Clever you are most certainly not. Educated? Well! obviously never even started. Robinsod, PJ Rogernome…..

Still the same bigoted, sexist homephobe neanderthal….
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February 17, 2010 12:42pm
starboard

Bok 1

LRO 0
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February 17, 2010 1:04pm
edhunter

dime:

“Is a serial rooter suitable to be POTUS?”

well kennedy and clinton are loved by the left.

or are the left sexist now – men that fuck a lot of women are legends but the women are sluts?

Girl says: It’s unfair that if a guy f*cks a different girl every week,
he’s a legend, but if a girl fucks just two guys in a year, she’s a slut.
Guy responds: If a key opens lots of locks, then it’s a master key,
But if a lock is opened by lots of keys, then it’s a shitty lock
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February 17, 2010 1:05pm
big bruv

I am not sure if hearing Kyle Mills in the cricket commentary box is more annoying than watching Kyle Mills play for New Zealand.

Either way he is crap.
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February 17, 2010 1:35pm
kaya

I think Bernard Hickey’s commentary in the Herald on Key’s decision to leave property “investors” alone was spot on.

“He is saying, (to the younger generation) I don’t like the activity of investing in property to avoid paying taxes, but I’m not brave enough to challenge them or convince them what is in their best long term interests.

He has finally shown his colours. He is a mediocre leader without the vision or the ability to change New Zealand. He is a seat-warmer who is too scared to scare the masses.

He is saying he wants to get re-elected. How uninspiring. How pedestrian.”

Ouch but it rings true, full article here:

http://tinyurl.com/y8myvkz
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February 17, 2010 1:39pm
Michael M Wilson

I am surprised at how little talk their is about Ranvir Lali Singh who was refused entry to India adn then complained that his wife a son were also refused entry. The Herald did an article ‘My son is 2… It’s ridiculous to suggest he is a terrorist’ http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10620568

Then it turns out he has put the murderers of Indira Ghandi on his wall of honour at his temple. “We don’t consider those who killed Indira Gandhi as terrorists, they are our martyrs. She was killed by her Sikh bodyguards as revenge for her attack on the Golden Temple, our holiest shrine, and for that, we consider them our martyrs. There is nothing wrong.”

The irony is he is a justice of the peace.
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February 17, 2010 1:42pm
david

@Michael M Wilson
I am less interested in Mr Singh than by the revelation that he knows Chris Carter and Chris Carter knows him which raises two questions:
1. Is the Herald report the result of a tip-off by Chris Carter in an attempt to apply some media pressure on the Government? and

2. Is the relationship a clue as to how Phil Goff managed to organise his “strikingly beautiful” Indian chick to run the honey trap sting on Richard Worth?

The real follow up by the media should be focussing on Mr Singh’s relationship with the Labour Party, the degree to which Chris Carter was involved in planning and executing the Richard Worth issue and why in 9 years did Labour not prepare or publish a list of terrorist individuals or organisations?
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February 17, 2010 1:59pm
Captain Crab

Mickey
“Your supposed experts are nutters.”

Riiiight, so John Christy is a “nutter”? Wow, its just so easy showing you up as a fool.

A native of Fresno, California, Christy received a B.A. in Mathematics (1973) from the California State University, Fresno and a M.S. and Ph.D. in Atmospheric Sciences (1984, 1987) from the University of Illinois. Prior to his scientific career, Christy taught Physics and Chemistry as a missionary teacher in Nyeri, Kenya (1973-75). After earning a Master of Divinity degree (1978) from Golden Gate Baptist Seminary he served four years as a bivocational mission-pastor in Vermillion, South Dakota where he also taught college math. [1]
He is a distinguished professor of atmospheric science, and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. He was appointed Alabama’s state climatologist in 2000. For his development of a global temperature data set from satellites he was awarded NASA’s Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement, and the American Meteorological Society’s “Special Award.”[2] In 2002, Christy was elected Fellow of the American Meteorological Society.
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February 17, 2010 2:32pm
Mr Elbow

On another topic, David Garrett has been blogging again – good stuff on the criminal underclass and why we should stop wasting valuable taxpayers money on their welfare payments… http://www.davidgarrett.org.nz/?p=662
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February 17, 2010 2:59pm
Johnboy

Boscawen and Hide have just put Wayne Mapp on the rack during question time re: the NIWA temperature readings since 1850 and he has been found to be very, very evasive. ETS repeal coming up perhaps?
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February 17, 2010 3:03pm
big bruv

Johnboy.

I guess that means that Espiner will lead tonight’s news with.

“Cracks appearing in the coalition government, Key under fire”
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February 17, 2010 3:16pm
Johnboy

Do you think he might reveal that Key’s family trust owns shares in a thermometer manufacturing company ? 🙂
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February 17, 2010 3:27pm
Jack5

New topic for a moment …

Here’s an example of why New Zealand’s education system is stuffed, and why the new standards are desperately needed. Go John Key. Hold fast!

Vanessa Andreotti, an education lecturer from the teacher’s training college absorbed by Canterbury University, writes in today’s Christchurch Press ( Feb 17) a half-page diatribe supporting multiculturalism. Finally it emerges as a argument that the new standards and teacher accountability could undermine the curriculum published in 2007 which emphasises “diversity, equity, community participation, collective ownership, partnerships, inquiry, innovation, future focus, integrity, sustainability, and so on …”

It’s long past time such PC gobblededook was purged from our schools. Thank you John Key for setting the ball rolling, now it’s up to parents, grandparents, employers, friends to stand against the teachers’ PC madness.

In detail, Andreotti praises multiculturalism. Now there’s nothing wrong with learning more languages. In fact NZ needs to be far better at languages for trade and tourism alone, and it can give immense satisfaction to learners. However, the leftists want more than merely a population fluent in languages. They want English demoted and Western values and culture diluted.

Andreotti writes:

… In global societies, monoculturalism and monolingualism are considered impairments to intellectual development…

That’s why of course, monocultural, monlingual Japan is so backward and is the world’s second biggest economy. That’s why Mandarin has become the standard language of China, rapidly eroding the extremely rich Cantonese language and other regional languages. That’s why English still plays such a big role in many-languages India.

That’s why standard Italian replaced the regional languages of Italy, why French replaced Provencal, Breton, and Lorraine-Franconian in regional France, and that’s why Catalan has declined to be a regional tongue in Spain and Galician is near-defunct. It’s why the Amerind languages of Andreotti’s native Brazil have been suffocated — 99.9 per cent of Brazilians speak Portuguese.

The Roman empire was a global society of its time, yet spread a Latin monoculture and language. China’s society is certainly vast and expanding rapidly, yet it is monocultural in that it energetically absorbs minorities into its culture (as in Tibet and Sinkiang) and makes its Mandarin the ruling official language.

Andreotti quotes a John Burnham as saying 21st century students (presumably insufficiently multicultural) “who are used to Google” are poorly equipped to meet the needs of contemporary societies. This implies the internet increases the need for multiculturalism. What rubbish! The internet, still overwhelmingly English in content, and rivalled in languages of users only by the (monocultural) Mandarin, has greatly increased the influence of English. Consider the great software languages, and their close relationship to English, too.

Even if Kiwi kids choose the Maori choice available to NZ users of Google, they will certainly be overwhelmingly reading web pages in English.
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February 17, 2010 3:29pm
MikeNZ

Cha
An article on the influence in the tea party movement of the conspiracy theorists and militias and the rhetoric promoting a violent civil war.

Thanks for the link, I can understand the groundswell and what they are saying as when people lose hope they will do things that they wouldn’t before.

Your sentence points to extremism as you intended, but the reality is many many thousands if not millions of people have lost faith in their national government and are leary of their state governments.
The constitution has been devalued and circumnavigated over this last century mainly because the people have ignored it, now they aren’t.
It will be interesting if they are able to turn America around. I don’t think so but I am happy to be incorrect.

As my reading of the bible says that Israel stands all ALONE against the world with no one coming to her aid in the last days as is shown by the corruption against her by the UN and it’s members.
That means America will not be her white knight in the background so I think America will carry on down the path she is on.
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February 17, 2010 3:33pm
MikeNZ

Red
Could a Conservative be a libertarian with morals?
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February 17, 2010 3:38pm
Pete George

Mike, can’t we all just be a mixture of ideals and values? Those who start to believe they belong to one label seem to look at anything slanted that way rather than look at each issue on it’s merits.

The Tea Party thing in the US is very interesting and could be quite worrying – eg the number of TP factions making connections with militia groups and/or vice versa, and some who say they are stocking up on emergency rations and ammunition, and talking about revolution.

And this from a Senate candidate:
And in Indiana, Richard Behney, a Republican Senate candidate, told Tea Party supporters what he would do if the 2010 elections did not produce results to his liking: “I’m cleaning my guns and getting ready for the big show. And I’m serious about that, and I bet you are, too.”

It is understandable there are a lot of people who are fed up with the US governing system. But the reactions raise the possibility that Muslim fanatics may be far from the biggest security threat facing the US.

And it could be partly along a racial divide, TP drinkers seem to be just about all white.
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February 17, 2010 3:56pm
Tassman

This guy Obama has gone naive and deaf in the face of a backlash. He has not only made himself a target of MEeastern terrorists, but his nuclear energy project would make USA an easier target. Imagine 9/11 on a nuclear target!!!

Hell, what can you expect from a warmonger anyway in the clothes of a sheep!!!

Go Palin…..
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February 17, 2010 4:41pm
Alan Wilkinson

Disgusting, but unsurprising:
http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/sxdb/chastonmalcolm.htm

and

http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZCA/2003/79.html
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February 17, 2010 5:13pm
kaya

Pete George – Call it whatever you want, try and label it however you want, the whole system has been hijacked and the people are slowly realising it. If they ever get some direction watch out.

What they have come to realise is it doesn’t matter who the leader is or which party is in power, they all come from the same production line. One which maintains the status quo for the powers that be, borrows heavily and puts future generations in debt. One which bails out failed financial organisations at the expense of the taxpayers and guarantees others with taxpayers money. Where the Government has become too big and strangles the country financially and productively.

Now was that America or New Zealand I was referring to? Hmmmmmm.
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February 17, 2010 5:42pm
kaya

And on that note a quote:

“You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.”

– Charles Austin Beard
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February 17, 2010 5:48pm
Steve

IPCC.
“This was thrashed at the Standard yesterday” according to mickey.
How many comments is a thrashing Mickey? Open Mike has 14.
Did I get it wrong? Number three blog only has 14 comments on Open Mike. Wow, huge
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February 17, 2010 6:25pm
Hurf Durf

Braindead Delirium, cha, repton and brainsleftout obsessed with the nasty teabaggers, redbaiter and Paylun. Quite pathetic, and unnerving. I wonder why the stalker-like interest? It’s not like they don’t have anything else to do, like chain themselves to trees in Mount Aspiring and cry “NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR.” They should adopt a nice hobby, like flower arranging or drinking antifreeze.
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February 17, 2010 6:28pm
Johnboy

They could all be assured of a more useful task than flower arranging Hurf toiling in the Fiordland uranium mines and finally making a useful contribution to NZ.
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February 17, 2010 6:52pm
Hurf Durf

Dr Amy Bishop. “Crazy” Catherine Delahunty.

Time to launch an investigation, I think.
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February 17, 2010 8:00pm
Pete George

Kaya, it doesn’t seem to matter that much who is in power, maybe the politicians are a lot more pawn than the powerful they think they are.
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February 17, 2010 8:01pm
Robert Black

Muslims, the final solution:

Solution 1: Ban all Muslims from taking citizenship in countries other than their birth and ban all travel visas for all Muslims to other countries;

(Too late).

Solution 2: Imprison all Muslims residing in countries other than their birth countries.

(Still possible).

Solution 3: Kill all Muslims.

(You get that on the big jobs).
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February 18, 2010 5:46am
Viking2

At last some backbone from a Nat.Minister

Broadcasting Minister Jonathan Coleman is considering sacking the Radio New Zealand board if the public broadcaster cannot shift to a new business model in an effort to save money.

Documents released under the Official Information Act to One News show that Dr Coleman has told Radio NZ not to expect any new funding for the foreseeable future.

Radio NZ costs about $38 million a year to run, but the Government is demanding a shake-up to counter rising costs.

In meeting notes from last November, Dr Coleman was advised that replacing the board was an option if they could not find a solution.

“A defensive approach to wait out for the next year or two in the expectation that it will again be business as usual is not an option.

“Members of boards who are not able or prepared to meet these expectations might need to move on or be replaced by members who can.”

Last night Dr Coleman said he was still hopeful of finding a solution, though the clock was ticking and he expected a proposal from Radio NZ “within weeks, rather than months”.

“If boards don’t play ball at the end of the day, [replacing them] is the ultimate sanction, but we’re nowhere near that stage.”

If he acts as he portrays on last nights news then he will dump RNZ. 36 milliuon hole for a few Kim Hill fruit cakes. Thats near on $25 for every tax[ayer, most of whom don’t use the service. Close it down or sell it to someone else. Hill & Plunket perhaps.
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February 18, 2010 7:01am
dad4justice

When are those parasitic mongrel lazy security guards getting the chop from that cess pit shit hole called the Beehive? Oh the waste of tax payer dollars. Why MP”s need protection is beyond me as anybody that’s not a leech run a mile from the lying low down creeps.
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February 18, 2010 7:14am
MikeNZ

Oh those dastardly Mossad agents look like they have killed another terrorist where he thought he was safe and secure.
sad his Filofax can’t be found so the weapons flow will be stalled for a bit.

How could they be so silly as to get caught on camera let alone use passports of people actually in Israel right now.
or was this a hastily organised affair due to the particular weaponry being smuggled in real time?
Perhaps we’ll only know in a Tom Clancy book in years to come?

Don’t they use knives or stilettos in the Mossad anymore?
This assuming it isn’t all an inside hit job because he wasn’t supporting the party line or making too much on the side.
Now that would be a good job, sorting a fraud out and getting Mossad the blame.
Nah the Arabs surely can’t have improved that much could they?
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February 18, 2010 7:35am
Luc Hansen

Relying on Tom Clancy to solve a terrorist attack is a bit like relying on Michael Crichton for climate science!
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February 18, 2010 8:30am

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