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123 Responses to “General Debate 27 February 2010”
The wide ranging strategic review to be announced next month will see the BBC close two of its radio stations – digital stations 6 Music and Asian Network – as well as shut half its website and cut spending heavily on imported American programmes in an overhaul of services. It will introduce a cap on spending on broadcast rights for sports events of 8.5 per cent of the licence fee, or about £300 million.
After protesting at parliament last week, followed by Labour MPs writing to the speaker, cleaners at Parliament have sent their own letter to the Speaker, asking him to assist. This is a big deal for these cleaners to do this, just as it was for them to protest outside parliament last week – they’ve never done it before and as they say, they are largely invisible, working during the night when politicians are sleeping to keep their offices clean and maintained to a high standard.
Meanwhile, I want to introduce you to Jaine Ikurere, who cleans John Key’s office. She’s signed the letter, and like the other cleaners at Parliament, earns just $12.55 an hour.
I hope Mr Speaker listens to Jaine and her fellow cleaners”.
what is wrong with Labour MP’s that they set themselves up like this .. how much did Jaine get cleaning Helen Clark’s office.
I am soooooo proud of myself in refusing to comment on such blatant hypocrisy from these leaderless wankers.
I’ve been thinking of ways RNZ could gain revenue from a degree of commercialisation, and some are quite inventive, and do not impinge on its live broadcasting, but then I thought, surely governments would then just reduce its funding even more?
Regardless of the straw man arguments DPF puts up, RNZ has been on rations for a long time, and yet it is instructed by the government as to the role it must fulfill.
And the talk of bias is just crap. Sean Plunkett and Geoff Robinson are as dry as burnt toast, and the only difference between Brian Crump and Garth George on climate change is that Crump is just more subtle, a lancer rather than a stabber, like George.
PRIME TV yesterday evening screened a documentary on features of the earth’s formation dealing quite a bit with tectonic plate movements, some of which may be measured today to be 1cm a year so obvious movements are over periods calculated to be millions of years, just as mountain peaks, containing shells and other evidence to show they were at one time at sea level, would take similar lengthy periods to reach the heights they have.
All these durations would seem to be well beyond the Biblical record of approximately 6,000 or so years that I understand Kris K and others to claim as being the correct ‘length of Creation’ and I wonder how they explain the obvious geological evidence, as it stands outside the question of the origin of life itself or theories of evolution or not?
I don’t wish to swamp the General Debate with the usual arguments that Evolution engenders – just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology.
Best country breakfast ever. Venison steak and eggs. Country living is sure great.
and Yvette
I don’t wish to swamp the General Debate with the usual arguments that Evolution engenders – just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology.
Put there to test your faith. You fail. Hellfire for you my dear.
CNN Poll: Majority says government a threat to citizens’ rights
Posted: February 26th, 2010 09:00 AM ET
From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser
Fifty-six percent of Americans say the government poses an immediate threat to individual rights and freedoms.
Washington (CNN) – A majority of Americans think the federal government poses a threat to rights of Americans, according to a new national poll.
Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they think the federal government’s become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens. Forty-four percent of those polled disagree.
The survey indicates a partisan divide on the question: only 37 percent of Democrats, 63 percent of Independents and nearly 7 in 10 Republicans say the federal government poses a threat to the rights of Americans.
According to CNN poll numbers released Sunday, Americans overwhelmingly think that the U.S. government is broken – though the public overwhelmingly holds out hope that what’s broken can be fixed.
It won’t. The dumbing down of education, the destruction of public space by corporations and the endless supply of drone TV keeps the American public totally apathetic.
And, in its usual slight of hand, the corporists blame the government for loss of freedom when the greatest assaults on individual freedom and liberty is from the corporation.
The only hope for a free society is the destruction of the corporatist model, the winding back of globalisation and the overthrow of the “free market” myth.
The ineffable empty-suit Key speaking in Auckland: “On that basis, they (the elderly) have nothing to fear from a GST increase – in fact for superannuitants, they’re going to be better off.”
The man who promised no more taxes is doing all sort of verbal gymnastics to justify his broken promise. If so, Mr. Key why to stop at 15%, lift it to 20% and the elderly will be even better off.
The neo-socialist National Party is pushing nothing but a continuation of failed Labour Party policies.
Only a braindead commie could utter nonsense such as the way to freedom is through destroying the free market. You should get some hints from the Soviet Union on that course of action. Oh hang on….
The budget for RNZ divided by the number of (claimed) listeners works out around $60 per listener.
This is well within the means of most NZers and if they want to listen then they should subscribe and free non listeners from the financial burden of paying for a radio station they do not listen to.
There is no reason RNZ can not exist on the same basis as SKY television. Government should not be in the entertainment business, and government should not be forcing some NZers to pay for the entertainment of other NZers.
You get forced to pay for lots of things you don’t necessarily get direct benefit out of. Like pensions. Like the road from there to nowhere in particular. Even education of our young. Sad, isn’t it?
Public broadcasting has a special place in most freedom loving countries. It’s a bastion of independence and non-bias in amongst an orgy of bias!
” You get forced to pay for lots of things you don’t necessarily get direct benefit out of.”
That is correct, and that you think such compulsion is morally acceptable is why you are a socialist and a thief and I am a supporter of liberty and have my morality intact.
” Public broadcasting has a special place in most freedom loving countries.”
Public radio’s objective is the destruction of freedom and the growth of the all powerful state, that state that it owes its existence to and is therefore beholden to.
..and if hearing left wing whiners using other people’s money to push their unpopular views is your thing, you should pay for it you swine and stop stealing mine. I have no moral obligation to provide entertainment to amoral brain fucked socialist scum like you.
” If you don’t want a reply, don’t address your remarks to me. ”
I’ll address who I want. I am trying to get you to understand that this is not a chat forum. Kiwiblog is dying as a discussion forum and it is because of the prevalence of low IQ bores like you and your superficial drivel.
The usual coping mechanisms are to:
(a) deny that the science is correct, that scientists employ circular reason to date things (e.g. fossils date the rocks, rocks date the fossils); or
(b) God plants a lot of false evidence around as a test of faith, so it only looks as if the earth is 4+bn years old.
Luc, you mentioned in your message from the other thread the other day about you trying to buy machines when you were an industrialist. Did you ever think to yourself that those machines you had a looked at were a product of capitalism or not? Just curious, because it seems that you rant about capitalism and at the same time enjoy the fruits, wealth and productions capability of capitalism, such as you’re using a computer to post a message here on Kiwiblog, you use a cell-phone for your personal & professional communications and many other things around you? Is capitalism bad because it produces the things that you enjoy everyday or is it simply because you have a pre-conceived idea that it is something bad for no good reason at all?
“I don’t wish to swamp the General Debate with the usual arguments that Evolution engenders – just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology.”
Ha! you guys can’t help yourselves can you.
In fact almost every debate on religion on kiwiblog is started by people that claim to have dismissed it, yet all they want to talk about………………
Insecure much?
“just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology”
Ok, so we are going to do this again.
Fact one: The majority of Christians do not believe in the 6000 year age of the earth.
Fact two: Legalistic doctrine is the primary cause of the 6000 year creation belief, it is linked to the type of biblical interpretation that the Pharisees engaged in, the guys that wanted Christ dead.
Fact three: There are several ways of interpreting Genesis that offer little or no problems with the record of geology, in fact Genesis is the only creation narrative of any religion that can be reconciled to science at all, ie no world on the back of a turtle.
Fact four: Some of the first geologists to consider an ancient earth were in fact Christians that believed in creation over aeons of time, their work was and remains very important to geology.
I did say that the government does not serve a democratic role or accountable to the people who voted them in. Rather they change their faces to follow the capitalists few. The media does the rest, so really RNZ and TVNZ are not in the interest of any citizens as are National, ACT, Labour, Greens, and te Maori Party.
Lynn Fiebig (Liebig) should get five years prison. If only we have a moral justice system!
d4j…in the same way that some ‘union of fathers’ representatives weasel their way into the courtroom under the pretence of the fathers friend eh? Somewhat disengenuous at the best.
Where are the morals around that?
“Sean Plunkett and Geoff Robinson are as dry as burnt toast”
Luc you have to be joking, or perhaps you just weren’t listening to obsequious interview after obsequious interview during Hulun’s nine long years, broken only by aggression whenever a non-Liarbore politician came on.
Mind you I’ve heard other lefties make the same comment so maybe it’s just that you’re so far left you’ve lost an understanding of where the centre actually lies.
Fifty-three percent say God created humans in their present form the way the Bible describes it, essentially endorsing a strict creationist explanation.
I probably would agree with you that in most educated countries that are more secular that your fact 1) is true. But not so in the US apparently.
I also agree on your sentiment around the baiting of religious debates by some people here. Even though I share much of there views, writing “I don’t want to start a religious debate here, but…” is equal rhetorically to “I am not a racist, but…”
Taken from the Heralds website .. top part about “future PM” Shane Jones.
He did not recall the details, but said the sum he repaid was possibly for after-dinner drinks. Although the meal was related to his portfolio, he had looked at his statement later and decided to repay some of the costs.
“I met part of the costs because I didn’t feel it was all related to being a minister. I looked at it and said, ‘No, that’s over the top.”‘
His admission precedes the release of the records of former Labour ministers’ credit cards, requested under the Official Information Act and likely to happen as soon as next week.
It follows this week’s release of those of National ministers – which led to Phil Heatley’s resignation from his fishing and housing portfolios for signing off a $70 wine purchase as “dinner”.
Mr Jones said he could not remember his accounts in any detail and intended to check them.
He could not recall if there was any personal spending but said it was highly unlikely.
Other former Labour ministers contacted were fairly confident their records were all right but said if any of the spending was found to be inappropriate they would face up to it.
February 27th, 2010 at 10:28 am
” If you don’t want a reply, don’t address your remarks to me. ”
I’ll address who I want. I am trying to get you to understand that this is not a chat forum. Kiwiblog is dying as a discussion forum and it is because of the prevalence of low IQ bores like you and your superficial drivel.
Redbirther, I suggest you take a look in the mirror before accusing others.
Your “contributions” here are
1. Great swathes of cut and paste about the US and the Bridezilla of the GOP. Most people don’t give a tinker’s cuss for that.
2. Aduse and vitriol at anyone who dares to criticise your idiotic cut and pastes or the subjects thereof. You are unable to accepot criticism and respond with debate, and when someone foolhardy enough to try to engage you in debate, they are just subjected to more of your bile.
3. A very occaisional, reasoned albeit wrongheaded, post.
@ jaba 12.03pm – just blogged about that, and about Tracy Watkins’ Dom-Post column which is in a similar vein. It would seem that Labour’s former ministers are not off the hook, and they have no H2 to defend them any more!
Fact one: The majority of Christians do not believe in the 6000 year age of the earth.
Even if your assertion is correct, that doesn’t make it a fact. So called majorities often ‘get it wrong’.
Fact two: Legalistic doctrine is the primary cause of the 6000 year creation belief, it is linked to the type of biblical interpretation that the Pharisees engaged in, the guys that wanted Christ dead.
That’s a pretty long bow, and some might say it’s offensive.
Just because someone may interpret the Bible, and consider the scientific evidence, and come to the conclusion that the earth/creation is of the order of 6,000 years old DOES NOT automatically imply they embrace “legalistic doctrine” and are the equivalent of modern day “Pharisees”.
I could make ‘broad sweeping’ statements about Christians who DO NOT accept the literal account of Creation, the Flood of Noah (and ignore supporting science), etc., but that is senseless unless my aim is to have other than meaningful debate.
And I agree with you, Kris K, on the point whether the majority of Christians believe that the world is 6000 years old or not does not make it a fact.
Scientific evidence makes in a fact. An irrefutable one, too. Only the extremely ignorant today claim that the world is merely 6000 years old (or in that magnitude)
A nice piano tune on youtube here and a a short acapella rendition of the same song by the group that originally sang it in the late 1980s. It’s nice tune to listen to while sitting outside the deck on a nice sunny day like today to drink beer and whiskey.
In @Shunda barunda’s defense, I believe he was merely distancing most Christians from the YEC doctrine, not attempting to demonstrate that the correctness of a belief hangs on its popularity.
Why don’t you go fuck yourself? You couldn’t string two points into a logical and reasoned outcome if your life depended on it. Sitting there like some blinkered cawing crow on the extreme left of the political spectrum and totally ignorant of the fact that 95% of it exists to your right. Troglodytic bore.
” Regards ”
You can shove your regards peanut brain. I don’t need them.
The problem for a Christian believing in an old universe is that it means interpreting one part of the Bible figuratively rather than literally. If your whole worldview is founded on a literal interpretation of the Bible, to question the literal truth of one part is to question the literal truth of all parts. Evangelical Christians don’t have the authority of the Church to turn to in questions of literal or figurative interpretation of scripture. It appears to them as all or nothing. If you say that Genesis is not literal, who’s to say that the life and being of Jesus is not figurative?
PRIME TV yesterday evening screened a documentary on features of the earth’s formation dealing quite a bit with tectonic plate movements, some of which may be measured today to be 1cm a year so obvious movements are over periods calculated to be millions of years, just as mountain peaks, containing shells and other evidence to show they were at one time at sea level, would take similar lengthy periods to reach the heights they have.
All these durations would seem to be well beyond the Biblical record of approximately 6,000 or so years that I understand Kris K and others to claim as being the correct ‘length of Creation’ and I wonder how they explain the obvious geological evidence, as it stands outside the question of the origin of life itself or theories of evolution or not?
I don’t wish to swamp the General Debate with the usual arguments that Evolution engenders – just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology.
EVOLUTION VS CREATION:
I love the way people make such statements as: “so obvious movements are over periods calculated to be millions of years”, and “obvious geological evidence”.
The only thing ‘obvious’ is that long time periods (millions/milliards of years) are assumed; and therefore “1cm a year” multiplied by “millions of years” equals ‘millions of centremeters’, and therefore, it is assumed, evolution MUST is ‘true’.
ALL of your “millions of years” can easily be explained away by the biblical Noah’s Flood. The Flood was much more than just ‘a bit of rain’. It rained 40 days (the canopy collapsed), the wells of the deep ruptured and spewed forth subterranian water sources, and there was volcanic and seismic activity uncomparable to our modern day experiences. As a result huge swathes of sediment were laid down covering forests and animals; fossilising them or converting them into oil/coal. Some of the coal, shells, etc as a result of seismic activity ended up well above sea level in mountains, etc.
If one considers the TRUE evidence in an unbiased way, then it actually substantiates the biblical account of creation and Noah’s Flood, and rather than supporting evolution it actually undermines it and shows it to be nothing more than a manmade contrivance with the aim to, primarily, discredit the Creator.
I wrote this this other day (GD 23/02/10) – it’s worth restating here:
DARWINISM, MARXISM & REVOLUTION
You know when the likes of Fredrich Engels, Karl Marx, and Leon Trotsky sing the praises of Darwinism/Evolutionary Theory that you have to pause and ask some pretty serious questions about the motives behind those, including Darwin, who push this theory:
[Excerpt from Eve's Bite pp17]
“Darwin, who I am now reading, is splendid”, wrote Fredrich Engels in a letter to Marx soon after ‘On the Origin of Species’ was published in 1859. Both communists could identify with the “survival of the fittest”, and saw that the biological ideas advanced by Darwin could equally be imposed on society at large.
The theme was later elaborated on by Soviet revolutionary Leon Trotsky, who first of all explained why atheism was crucial in the education system:
Religiousness is irreconcilable with the Marxian standpoint. We are of the opinion that atheism, as an inseparable element of the materialist view of life, is a necessary condition for the theoretical education of the revolutionist. He who believes in another world is not capable of concentrating all his passion on the transformation of this one.
Trotsky then wrote that Darwin’s Theory of Evolution must be taught in state schools, not because it is a good theory but because it makes belief in God impossible – and that was the supreme aim of Marxism:
DARWINISM AND MARXISM
Darwinism itself is none the less entirely irreconcilable with this belief. In this, as in other respects, Darwinism is a forerunner, a preparation for Marxism. Taken in a broadly materialist and dialectic sense, Marxism is the application of Darwinism to human society.
Darwinism is actually the mechanism by which societal values and belief in God are transformed/removed, and thus paves the way for Secular Humanism and Socialism/Marxism to reign supreme. The state is now the new ‘God’, and the elite that rule it are demi-gods which are not to be questioned and must be worshiped as well.
I guess Marx, Trotsky and Darwin ALL got their dreams to eventually come true.
Those that blindly follow Evolution must question whether there is an overarching agenda behind it and ask why exactly must Evolution not be questioned – and those (scientists) that do often find themselves scorned, without funding, and often out of a career for daring to challenge the religious precepts of Evolution and its high priests.
Those that blindly follow religion should question whether there is an overarching agenda behind it and ask why exactly must religion not be questioned.
The problem for a Christian believing in an old universe is that it means interpreting one part of the Bible figuratively rather than literally. If your whole worldview is founded on a literal interpretation of the Bible, to question the literal truth of one part is to question the literal truth of all parts. Evangelical Christians don’t have the authority of the Church to turn to in questions of literal or figurative interpretation of scripture. It appears to them as all or nothing. If you say that Genesis is not literal, who’s to say that the life and being of Jesus is not figurative?
I couldn’t have said it better myself, Ryan – thanks.
And, additionally, I believe the science actually supports the literal interpretation of the Bible regarding creation and the flood of Noah.
Many ‘Christians’ who deny the literal biblical interpretation regarding creation, etc., often also reject many of the prophetic elements of Revelation, Daniel, etc., whether Israel is still ‘God’s chosen people’, and some even question the truth of the literal virgin birth of Christ.
Once you question one element of the literal interpretation of the scriptures, suddenly everything is up for grabs – as you so eloquently stated.
Those that blindly follow religion should question whether there is an overarching agenda behind it and ask why exactly must religion not be questioned.
I think I’ve made a pretty good case for not “blindly follow[ing] religion”, Pete – but thanks for your usual level of word twisting and misrepresentation of what others have said.
I think the truly blind are those who embrace Evolution and Atheism (both religions by the way) and worship at their respective (the same?) altars DESPITE the evidence they’re confronted with.
I was merely demonstrating how your statement could easily be viewed differently.
How could you confront someone with evidence against Atheism? It is a lack of a belief due to absolutely no evidence, not a belief.
It’s funny when you try and turn evolution into a religion, it is a severely flawed tactic. IF it was a religious belief it would be as unsupported by evidence as all other religions.
Poor old Kris, once again flogging the “both religions by the way” line as he is incapable of thinking outside a religious mind set.
Neither evolutionary science or atheism share anything in common with religion. They are not belief systems, in fact, atheism is a rejection of belief systems and evolution is open to continually testing and improvement.
There is far more evidence in favour of the truth and accuracy of evolutionary theory than there is for all the world’s religions combined. Atheism can be proven quite simply by noticing all the evidence for god’s absence. Atheism is the default position at birth. No one, not even JC himself, is born with a religious belief.
As for the fantasies of Genesis, there are so mnay problems there if you try to read iot as anything more than a morality tale. How the f*&k did Noah fit the dinosaurs on the ark, keep the lions from eating the monkeys and provide enough gum leaves for the koals?
February 27th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
” Why not drop 1 & 2 and lift your game on 3? ”
Why don’t you go fuck yourself? You couldn’t string two points into a logical and reasoned outcome if your life depended on it. Sitting there like some blinkered cawing crow on the extreme left of the political spectrum and totally ignorant of the fact that 95% of it exists to your right. Troglodytic bore.
” Regards ”
You can shove your regards peanut brain. I don’t need them.
Quite, so 6000 years ago (or thereabouts) a vast volume of water was released from caverns no-one has ever detected-
- being close to the core of the earth this water was super-heated, yet somehow did not boil to death all the plant, marine and aquatic life it covered.
- then assuming it’s salinity matched freshwater, the subsequent inundation didn’t cause the extinction of all plant and marine life;
or if the salinity matched sea water, somehow did not cause the extinction of all plant and aquatic life;
then drained away perfectly back into caverns no-one has ever seen or found, and in such a way that salinity levels in all fresh and salt water bodies were perfectly restored without any mingling;
then as it drained, the fossils were formed rapidly in such a way to exhibit perfect sorting of types and different levels of mineralization by strata,
- then some of the biomass was turned into stored carbon (oil, coal, chalk) in such a way, that 27,000 times more biomass is stored as carbon in the earth’s crust as we have on the surface today;
- that this was all accompanied by catastrophoic geological events worse than the Taupo eruption or Krakatoa, leaving absolutely no evidence of this in the geological record;
- then squeeze all the mutations on the genomes of organisms into this period, giving people a mutation rate 1000 times greater than blind sic scientists have measured, ensuring for instance, that Down’s syndrome cases would become a mere 1300 times per 1000 births, not 1.3 times.
Somehow this looks like a whole lot of ‘woo’ and pretty devoid of scientific evidence.
I couldn’t have said it better myself, Ryan – thanks.
And, additionally, I believe the science actually supports the literal interpretation of the Bible regarding creation and the flood of Noah.
Many ‘Christians’ who deny the literal biblical interpretation regarding creation, etc., often also reject many of the prophetic elements of Revelation, Daniel, etc., whether Israel is still ‘God’s chosen people’, and some even question the truth of the literal virgin birth of Christ.
Once you question one element of the literal interpretation of the scriptures, suddenly everything is up for grabs – as you so eloquently stated.
Glad to be of service. As you know, I’m familiar with the subject matter.
How could you confront someone with evidence against Atheism? It is a lack of a belief due to absolutely no evidence, not a belief.
Someone saying, “I believe there is no God”, IS a statement of faith.
Someone saying, “I KNOW there is no God”, IS a liar, as to make such a statement requires all knowledge – at best someone can only say “I believe …”, which is a religious statement.
dime 2:36 pm,
“I think I’ve made a pretty good case for not “blindly follow[ing] religion”,”
sorry, havent read the whole thread, but that stuck out.
so you dont blindly follow religion, but if a mother gets a gf, you want to have their children taken off them.
If you can’t be bothered reading what I’ve said, but are happy to just ‘cherry pick’, then I can’t really be bothered engaging with you.
February 27th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Pete George 2:35 pm
How could you confront someone with evidence against Atheism? It is a lack of a belief due to absolutely no evidence, not a belief.
Someone saying, “I believe there is no God”, IS a statement of faith.
Someone saying, “I KNOW there is no God”, IS a liar, as to make such a statement requires all knowledge
No it doesn’t. It simply requires sufficient knowledge and deductive ability to deduce there is no god.
Kris, a couple of simple questions, as you seem to dodge the hard ones-
1. At birth, which god(s) did you believe in?
2. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, what religion would you be?
3. What evidence would you require to give up your belief in god(s)?
Someone saying, “I believe there is no God”, IS a statement of faith.
Someone saying, “I KNOW there is no God”, IS a liar, as to make such a statement requires all knowledge – at best someone can only say “I believe …”, which is a religious statement.
No, you’re setting up a false dichotomy.
Atheism is the position that the currently, the evidence that there is a God (or any Gods) is woefully insufficient. It’s about evidence, not beliefs. That’s why atheism is not a religion. Or as some have put it, atheism is a religion in much the same way as bald is a hair colour.
I would still be prepared to claim that some religions cannot be true as they make claims that logically fallacious or the evidence they claim as their support, is non-existent.
I wonder how evolution and science explain abnormal activity, and by “abnormal activity” I mean the citing of ghosts, haunted houses, experiences with supernatural activity, exorcists/exorcism’s, etc.
It takes a great leap of faith to be an Atheist and reject the entire concept of “life beyond death” and this is why a debate exists between whether or not atheism is a type of religion.
So far evolution has failed to explain the above nor has atheism.
Kris K – “The Flood was much more than just ‘a bit of rain’. It rained 40 days (the canopy collapsed), the wells of the deep ruptured and spewed forth subterranean water sources, and there was volcanic and seismic activity incomparable to our modern day experiences. As a result huge swathes of sediment were laid down covering forests and animals; fossilising them or converting them into oil/coal. Some of the coal, shells, etc as a result of seismic activity ended up well above sea level in mountains, etc.”
So such seismic activity occurred as to raise vast mountain chains around the world, from our Southern Alps, to the Himalayan masses, and Noah and his family along with a large number of animals [seven pairs of each ritually clean animal - Gen 7:2 - fourteen bison but fortunately only two elephants] survived this global volcanic activity as well as the flood of waters which inundated the entire surface?
Surely the debris from such global seismic activity would have caused the equivalent of a ‘nuclear winter’?
Quite, so 6000 years ago (or thereabouts) a vast volume of water was released from caverns no-one has ever detected-
- being close to the core of the earth this water was super-heated, yet somehow did not boil to death all the plant, marine and aquatic life it covered.
Of course if the caverns were destroyed in the preocess we’re unlikely to find them today.
And who said the water was close to the earth’s core?
- then assuming it’s salinity matched freshwater, the subsequent inundation didn’t cause the extinction of all plant and marine life;
or if the salinity matched sea water, somehow did not cause the extinction of all plant and aquatic life; then drained away perfectly back into caverns no-one has ever seen or found, and in such a way that salinity levels in all fresh and salt water bodies were perfectly restored without any mingling;
And who said the preflood sea had any salinity to start with?
If there was no rain prior to the Flood, plus little time had lapsed since the creation, then one would expect to find minimal, if any, salinity in the preflood ocean (there was only one)
I think you’ll find that most dinosaurs are in fact “extinct”.
And when the water drained away it .. formed modern day oceans.
then as it drained, the fossils were formed rapidly in such a way to exhibit perfect sorting of types and different levels of mineralization by strata,
There’s only “perfect sorting” in some areas, in others it’s been mixed up due to ongoing seismic activity during the flood and following months.
- then some of the biomass was turned into stored carbon (oil, coal, chalk) in such a way, that 27,000 times more biomass is stored as carbon in the earth’s crust as we have on the surface today;
Stuff lived longer, grew bigger (due to a different atmosphere – oxygen rich), and the land mass was much larger than today – next.
- that this was all accompanied by catastrophoic geological events worse than the Taupo eruption or Krakatoa, leaving absolutely no evidence of this in the geological record;
Yes, BIGGER than Taupo or Krakatoa.
Plenty of evidence – oil, coal, fossils, extinct dinosaurs, mammoths, etc., mountains, oceans (plural), the continents (plural) – how much evidence do you want?
- then squeeze all the mutations on the genomes of organisms into this period, giving people a mutation rate 1000 times greater than blind sic scientists have measured, ensuring for instance, that Down’s syndrome cases would become a mere 1300 times per 1000 births, not 1.3 times.
I’m not an expert in the area of genetics, but I think you have bigger problems to deal with first regarding macro-evolution and the lack of the many ‘Missing Links’, before we start debating “mutation rate[s]” and “Down’s syndrome”.
So such seismic activity occurred as to raise vast mountain chains around the world, from our Southern Alps, to the Himalayan masses, and Noah and his family along with a large number of animals [seven pairs of each ritually clean animal - Gen 7:2 - fourteen bison but fortunately only two elephants] survived this global volcanic activity as well as the flood of waters which inundated the entire surface?
Yep.
Survival of the ark and its inhabitants was in God’s plan – and so thay survived.
Surely the debris from such global seismic activity would have caused the equivalent of a ‘nuclear winter’?
Perhaps for a short period the temperature dropped until such time as the atmosphere ‘cleared’ allowing the earth to warm again. Much seismic activity would have been below water, plus with a water dense atmosphere minimal dust would stay aloft for long.
seriously, that’s pretty lame. God destroyed the evidence of caverns.
There was a good growing season so the earth’s surface generated more than 27,000 times more biomass? 27,000 times! As I’ve explained already on 2 occasions, photosynthesis isn’t that good- you just don’t get that much growth becuase opf biochemical constraints. Besides which- 27,000 times! Look at a forest somewhere and imagine it being more at least 27,000 times larger in biomass.
In terms of geological evidence, your claim that mountains , dinosaurs etc are accounted for by the flood amount to zip. These amount to evidence of slow geological events, occasional switching of magnetic poles etc. And it doesn’t explain why early fossils are so much more mineralised.
The real problem you’ve got with YEC is you can’t avoid the extinction vortex that must result. Either everything dies in a mutational meltdown or everything dies under the pressure/geochemical changes of a large inundation, or everything dies in a massive outpouring of radioactivity, or everything dies in massive inbreeding, or everything dies via depensation.
We don’t need to throw a lot of scientific evidence at YEC, because it’s quickly obvious it is a peculiar, dogmatic view of the world that can’t escape the result that everything must already be dead.
Ah, the wonders of the no regulation free market system that the National government followed in the nineties.
Yep, the bloke sums it up well, a National government disgrace.
Why did Labour not fix it ? what, take the blame for rates doubling in the Auckland region, fuck that, a Nat fuckup, now you Nats will have to solve the problem without pissing off taxpayers or ratepayers.
Good luck Jafas with your next rates bill.
Andrew Lesa said… I wonder how evolution and science explain abnormal activity, and by “abnormal activity” I mean the citing of ghosts, haunted houses, experiences with supernatural activity, exorcists/exorcism’s, etc.
It takes a great leap of faith to be an Atheist and reject the entire concept of “life beyond death” and this is why a debate exists between whether or not atheism is a type of religion.
The real problem you’ve got with YEC is you can’t avoid the extinction vortex that must result. Either everything dies in a mutational meltdown or everything dies under the pressure/geochemical changes of a large inundation, or everything dies in a massive outpouring of radioactivity, or everything dies in massive inbreeding, or everything dies via depensation.
Of course everything DID die except for that which was on the ark – eg most dinosaurs, mammoths, etc. died.
And your so called “mutational meltdown” and “massive inbreeding” are both non starters if life had only been around for ~1500 years at the time of the Flood, and it was still, essentially, genetically sound.
God even permitted marriage between close relatives post-Flood (Abraham and Sarah were half brother/sister though married) until outlawed under Moses in Leviticus – so until this time inbreeding was a non issue as the ‘stock’ was still pure enough.
If you look through a 6,000 year ‘lense’ most of your issues disappear.
How’s your search for ALL those MISSING LINKS coming along?
Half of the ‘killers’ I’ve mentioned are post-Ark flood. Doesn’t matter how you package it, you end up with everything dead. You can’t get our modern human genome from a perfect stock (or indeed anything else) without a massive leap in mutation rates creating meltdown. It’s impossible. To go from perfect human genes to where we are know, you’re talking about 200,000 mutations a generation. Good luck with that.
That applies to us and every other species. Who incidentally didn’t have anything to eat as the long inundation wiped out all plant life.
I hadn’t bothered with the missing link fossil argument because it’s absurd- and fallacious as it’s based on ignorance of the fossil record. There’s plenty for you to look up by yourself.
I hadn’t bothered with the “leap in mutation rates” argument because until you deal with the MACRO evolution issue of the many MISSING LINKS there’s no point address Micro evolution issues such as “mutation rates”.
And where are ALL your missing links if I’m so ignorant of the “fossil record”?
Perhaps you can enlighten us – I’m sure a few of your ‘cohorts in crime’ would be much appreciative of this evidence, too, as they haven’t been able to find any evidence either.
Why, Kris, do you include the volcanic-geological upheaval you describe in with the Flood, when Genesis [7:11-24] makes no mention whatsoever of that? It just rained and water was also released from under the earth to eventually rise ‘seven metres’, however many cubits, [Genesis 7:20] above the mountain tops. Surely the formation of land features would be back in the third ‘day’ of creation [Genesis 1:9-10] ?
A) The limited gene pool for one. It’s absurd to think that it would have been possible to create everything from just a pair of each animal.
B) The sheer size of the ark to be able to host that many animals, which would of into the hundreds of thousands (Just think of all the insects that would have had to be there)
C) The ability to build such a large structure in that time (planning, materials, execution)
D) The ability to host a suitable habitat for all creatures from deserts to arctic, from rain-forests to savannas
E) Food supply. How would it possible to feed the amount of animals. Water would probably not be a problem, since it rained.
F) Waste. How did the toilets work? All those animals would have produced a huge amount of waste.
G) Seefood. God destroys all the land-dewelling animals, but sea life continues on without a problem.
Believing in Noah’s Ark literally you have to suspend all logic and reason. Of course you can argue that God provided for all those questions. But you have to kinda wonder, if he is so omnipotent, why did he need an Ark? Couldn’t he just have destroyed everything he wanted to destroy with a mere thought and get over a done with it? We did he need Noahs help?
Well, because it would make a good story, would it now?
Here’s a quick list of reptile-bird transitional forms
Eoraptor, Herrerasaurus, Ceratosaurus, Allosaurus, Compsognathus, Sinosauropteryx, Protarchaeopteryx, Caudipteryx, Velociraptor, Sinovenator, Beipiaosaurus, Sinornithosaurus, Microraptor, Archaeopteryx, Rahonavis, Confuciusornis, Sinornis, Patagopteryx, Hesperornis, Apsaravis, Ichthyornis, and Columba, plus more coming as we continue to get new finds from Spain & China. Edit- + Anchiornis (recent discovery of Chinese origin)
The missing link Creationist canard is based on intellectual dishonesty and misrepresentations of fossil evidence. Do not expect me to respect any more requests of this nature when it is available in published, scientific papers you can look up.
General Debate was good today huh?
Except is was not General, the whole thread was corrupted by Religious nutbars. But I guess that was general.
I will just go back to the beach tomorrow and enjoy life. The Religiously Handicapped are so boring.
I wonder how evolution and science explain abnormal activity, and by “abnormal activity” I mean the citing of ghosts, haunted houses, experiences with supernatural activity, exorcists/exorcism’s, etc.
Evolution doesn’t try and explain it at all, they have nothing to do with each other.
Science doesn’t explain it because there is nothing scientific in it to explain.
It takes a great leap of faith to be an Atheist and reject the entire concept of “life beyond death” and this is why a debate exists between whether or not atheism is a type of religion.
Not so. You have it round the wrong way. There is not proof of life beyond death, so it takes a great leap of faith to believe that there is life beyond death.
In any case being an Atheist doesn’t mean having to reject the concept of life beyond death. You don’t have to believe in a god to believe in some sort of concept of life beyond death.
And do all people who believe in some sort of god really believe in literal life beyond death?
I’d presume many people who don’t believe in gods will not believe in life beyond death because it involves the same logic – no evidence.
The neurology of possession refers to the concept of Exorcism and no such “evidence” exists to challenge the “spiritual” process that most religious experts believe is the possession of other spirits.
There are neurological and anthropological relationships with exorcism and it is prudent to assume that science has no business trying to explain such process.
Science is after all constantly challenging, changing and editing existing/former theories, practices and assumptions.
I acknowledge your leveled attempt to correct my previous comment and accept my ignorance on the matter, thank you for pointing this out to me.
“The problem for a Christian believing in an old universe is that it means interpreting one part of the Bible figuratively rather than literally.”
Only a problem for people who worship “the book of the Lord” instead of “the Lord of the book”
There is no one fail safe method of biblical interpretation, there are clearly aspects of it that can be interpreted through a number of methods.
Genesis includes a number of literary forms including a dual account of the entire creation event, there is also use of a repetitive style that is repeated elsewhere in the scriptures.
The six thousand year creation doctrine is mainly pushed by Christians with a strong legalistic bias, they can usually be rejected due to their other often incredibly hostile nature and lack of integrity (Kent Hovind).
Young earth creation has done tremendous damage to Christianity but there is evidence that it is a position that is now in decline.
Thankfully!
Ark: 133m long 22m wide 3 decks – maximum deck space 8778 square metres
When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month the flood started.
[Genesis 7:11] When Noah was 601 years old on the first day of the first month the water was gone [Gen 8:13] By the 27th day of the second month the earth was completely dry [8:14] Then God told Noah to leave the Ark.
So Noah, his family and all the animals and birds were in the Ark, with sufficient food, for I year and ten days.
An elephant [sow-crated] occupies about 8 sq metres minimum, consumes 200 kg of food a day – 75000 kg of food for the duration, each.
Lions would require a supply of other animals as food and those animals would themselves require food.
The oxen, bison, water buffalo, horses, deer, moose, zebra, wildebeest, yaks and rhinoceros alone would easily account for the odd 778 square metres, not including their one year’s supply of food.
I sometimes wonder how these fundamentalists can bear to use computers (eg for websurfing, in the ignition systems of their cars, in their cellphones, etc, etc). Isn’t the design and manufacture of chips now a matter of subatomic physics, with circuits laid down so finely as to be separated by the width of a few atoms or molecules? How do they reconcile quantum mechanics with God? And do they give any thought to how often the number 666 must come up in the course of the multitude of calculations that a computer performs in the course of their use of it.
And ghosts, haunted houses, possession, exorcism? Unreliable brain chemistry seems more likely.
Perhaps they subscribe to the Discworld view: all those machines are operated by little Pixies who work away frantically to amke things happen for us. Let’s hope Matt McCarten never gets interested enough to unionise them.
The Pixies, that is, not the fundamentalists.
I’m just relieved that no one of sound mind lets these nutters near the education so far as it affects my son
Why, Kris, do you include the volcanic-geological upheaval you describe in with the Flood, when Genesis [7:11-24] makes no mention whatsoever of that? It just rained and water was also released from under the earth to eventually rise ’seven metres’, however many cubits, [Genesis 7:20] above the mountain tops. Surely the formation of land features would be back in the third ‘day’ of creation [Genesis 1:9-10] ?
It is believed (by some) that when the “fountains of the deep” ruptured [Gen 7:11] that this was a result of massive seismic activity, as you would expect. And while it only rained for 40 days, the Bible says [Gen 7:24] “… the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.” It was only after this that [Gen 8:2] “The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;” So there is every reason to expect geological shifting and seismic activity to continue throughout this period of time (150 days) at least.
One only needs to consider that if the entire globe was covered with water this would, additionally, place massive stress on the earth’s crust which would likely have resulted in subsequent deforming, and even more seismic activity as a result of these induced stresses.
This could have resulted in large depressions (which later formed our modern day oceans) and induced counter ‘upshifts’ resulting in the formation of mountains and high hills.
Also, it is understood that part of the result of the fountains of the deep rupturing was the inducement of continental plate shifts to at least some degree.
We’re talking of a major, unprecedented global catastrophy of which we’re likely to never see a repeat of – with the exception, perhaps, of when the Bible speaks of God destroying the Old, and making a New heavens and earth – hard to top that one.
Just to change tact, is anyone else getting really pissed off with ads on Sale after Sale after Sale…..
It is astounding that people still but into all this sale stuff…. Went to get my daughter some clothing today at Pumpkin Patch, the whole place is a mess because they are constantly on sale…..
Dont get me wrong, sales are useful at times, but it has gone to far of late….. A Whafe rant over
Turning to something more important (at least here in NZ) – see Shoeshine in this week’s NBR (NZX suggesting that they would put Allied Farmers into the index (with the inference that NZ Farming Systems Uruguay woulkd be promoted out), followed by a flip flop a few days later). Just imagine if you’d had shares in Allied Farmers or NZ Farming Systems Uruguay. Values entirely messed up due to the incompetence of NZX. No wonder it’s hard to get Kiwis to move their money out of bricks and mortar. You’d have to be a mug to have your money in the sharemarket while NZX runs it. Especially given that only paid subscribers of the NZX Datamail service got the first round of information. Is it insider trading when it’s wrong?
Kris K: “It is believed (by some) that…” “…which would likely have resulted in…” “…this could have resulted…..” Like most Christian fundies, when something just doesn’t make sense or isn’t supported by Scripture, Kris K just makes shit up.
Kris K, prove the Bible isn’t actually the work of the devil and a false idol for you to worship and lead you off the true path to your god. Show us where in the Bible your god said something like “Build me a Bible and call it the Word of God”.
A) The limited gene pool for one. It’s absurd to think that it would have been possible to create everything from just a pair of each animal.
Why?
God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.
B) The sheer size of the ark to be able to host that many animals, which would of into the hundreds of thousands (Just think of all the insects that would have had to be there)
It’s been proven that all of the land animals that went through the Flood could have reasonably fitted within the ark. And, of course, you could take infants.
Insects likely got a lift on floating debris.
C) The ability to build such a large structure in that time (planning, materials, execution)
Noah was following God’s instructions – where’s the problem?
D) The ability to host a suitable habitat for all creatures from deserts to arctic, from rain-forests to savannas
Prior to the Flood there were no desert, artic, rain forrest, savannas regions. The world had a moderate and uniform climate. Plus there was no rain prior to the flood. It is more the miracle that they survived AFTER the flood when the weather was no longer uniform and moderate.
E) Food supply. How would it possible to feed the amount of animals. Water would probably not be a problem, since it rained.
While I believe Noah could have provided for the animals by ‘natural’ means, there is no reason God couldn’t have made supernatural provision. Ever heard of the Children of Israel being feed in the desert by God in the form of manna? Or of Christ feeding the 5,000 from a boy’s lunch of a few loaves and fishes?
F) Waste. How did the toilets work? All those animals would have produced a huge amount of waste.
Is this really a problem?
Chuck it over the side.
G) Seefood. God destroys all the land-dewelling animals, but sea life continues on without a problem.
Correct.
The purpose of the Flood was to destroy sinful man [Gen 6:7]; the destruction of the animals was just an unfortunate by-product. Only those animals that weren’t ‘good swimmers’ needed to be taken onto the ark.
Puzzled in Ekatahuna (7:45 pm):
Hopefully I’ve answered your queries as well.
Why don’t you offer some form of substance alongside that empty, ignorant rhetoric of yours? Some of us have heard it all before…
You could start by explaining all the “forged fossils” discovered to fit the theory of evolution together over the years?
There was the famous Chinese Archaeoraptor Scandal published in 1999, the Brontosaurus, (the gentle giant of dinosaurs, revealed as a fraud.), The “Piltdown Man”: the famous paleontological hoax, the Nebraska man, the Java man, the Peking man, etc, etc.
Oh and lets not forget Radiometric Dating flaws:
The validity of radiometric dating depends upon the three listed assumptions being correct – The decay rate being a constant, the parent/daughter ratio when the object being tested was “created”; and the assumption that there has been no loss or addition of the parent or daughter component throughout its history.
Lest we forget the day that science was opposed to scientific “assumptions”. Oh how much can “conveniently” change.
We could go on for ever pjje, I’m only worried that your son will loose all the credibility he ever had towards you.
Now it might be easy for you to happily point out the ignorance of religion but don’t you go thinking that evolutionist’s are without fault either, your head appears big enough for that already.
That a father would neither get permanent name suppression or a non custodial sentence?
I am not a lawyer, but I remember roughly what lawyers have said in previous discussions on blogs.
From my recollection, then, name suppression in sexual abuse cases such as this is required by law if revealing the name would identify the victim. “son’s best friend” is probably a close enough relationship to allow people to figure out who the victim is. So, the mother (even if found guilty) will get name suppression unless/until the victim applies to have it lifted. The same would be true if the offender were male.
I have no idea what the sentence will be (if found guilty).
I sometimes wonder how these fundamentalists can bear to use computers (eg for websurfing, in the ignition systems of their cars, in their cellphones, etc, etc). Isn’t the design and manufacture of chips now a matter of subatomic physics, with circuits laid down so finely as to be separated by the width of a few atoms or molecules? How do they reconcile quantum mechanics with God?
If you have ever considered “quantum mechanics”, then you’ll realise that it resides more in the meta-physical than the so called natural realm.
It’s not all thought experiments (eg, the double slit experiment – there’s a link to an article in the Schrodinger’s Cat wiki article, in case you’re interested). How are the pixies in your PC tonight? Did the number of the beast come up yet?
I believe that the sentence would be a lot different if it was the case of a father having sex with his daughter’s best friend after plying her with alcohol.
Just to change tact, is anyone else getting really pissed off with ads on Sale after Sale after Sale…..
A Sale sign is pretty much a “We’re open again this week” sign these days. It means nothing – apart from warning you that something not “on Sale” is most likely grossly overpriced.
Up top 50% off means everything else is double the price it should be.
[Why?
God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.
Heh, awesome.
“This is too absurd to be true!”
“It’s not absurd if you believe this other thing which is also too absurd to be true!”]
Actually Repton, it is not all that absurd, the theory of human evolution also points to an “Adam and Eve” pair that all modern humans are derived from.
Kris – “God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.” [to the Flood]
So if Creation is about 6000 years old, with 1500 years pre-Flood and 2000 years being the era AD, that leaves 2500 years between the Flood and Christ’s birth. But the archeology, Kris, which you would say supports the Flood and other Old Testament events, also records Egyptian dynasties from XXXII 332-30 BC back to Archaic Period I, 3414 BC, and back beyond that a Predynastic Period [Early] of 5464 BC. That’s just under 3000 years different to your timeline, by the archeology that validates your other beliefs.
I have to say, though, I’m not especially knowledgeable on quantum mechanics. I didn’t even know that it is to be capitalised. Like God, perhaps?
Looking for help now. I’ve spent a decent part of the day cutting firewood, including with the chainsaw. Newly sharpened for the firewood season. But it’s starting to show signs of needing a touch up. And I know from experience that with my file I won’t get it as good as the shop does with its machine. In fact the guy who sharpened it for me tells me that he faces the same problem, and only touches up a couple of times before going back and sharpening on the machine.
So I was thinking of buying a machine myself. Not one of the $1,000 plus benchtop ones. One of the smaller ones that costs $100 to $200. I found couple at the BuyWright site (isn’t Google great?) that run off 12 v batteries. So no problem using them up the hill and away from a power point – just it hook up to the 4wd battery (I better make sure it is 12v). Has anyone who reads this ever used one of these things? Have any comments to offer on whether they are any good?
The other possibility that I had in mind is the Dremel rotary tool attachment or similar (cheap, with some great reviews on Amazon.com, but in my case requires either a new rotary tool or access to a power point). Does anyone here have any thoughts on these attachments?
I hate to tell you this people but religion doesn’t really have a lot of relevance in modern day New Zealand because there is not a high enough percentage of Muslims in the country YET to start blowing up and murdering innocent people.
Of more concern maybe the certain cultural doom the country faces and when it will become a police state.
Remember that movie Sleeping Dogs?
By the way, I never realised Sam Neil was Irish until today.
Better start deciding where will District Nine be?
I’ve tried this, they wear out very quickly so each bit can’t be used many times before it a) loses it’s correct diameter, and b) wears out altogether.
I’d also be interested in knowing if there are worthwhile reasonably priced sharpening kits.
I take mine chainsaw in for a decent sharpen a couple of sharpens each year, and hand file it – the key is to do it often, maybe each time you use the saw, it’s a lot easier to maintain an edge compared to filing up a very blunt chain.
The small amount of time spent filing the chain is more than made up with a lot cleaner faster cutting.
I read somewhere that keeping things stored in a pyramid (eg razor blades) keeps them sharp, but I don’t think they tested it on saw chains back in the day. I’m also as dubious about the whole idea as I am about many of the ideas mentioned in this thread, wishful thinking and praying seem to go together.
Actually Repton, it is not all that absurd, the theory of human evolution also points to an “Adam and Eve” pair that all modern humans are derived from.
Except the mitochondrial Eve is 200,000 years old and Adam was 50-60,000 years old & that this molecular tracking of evolution does not indicate the human population was down to these few individuals.
At an analogical level, all we’re doing is following the ‘river’ of human evolution back to one feeder stream, by picking one tractable marker. Just as all the water from a river doesn’t come from one stream, our genome didn’t come from one single human ancestor.
Just want it noted that the religious nature of this general blog was started by Yvette who blogged about the no doubt irrefutable findings of scientists and the measuring of movement of tectonic plates showing the earth must be millions of years old and not thousands as implied in the Biblical account of creation.
So it wasn’t a Christian who ‘hijacked’ this particular thread. Just want that noted for the record.
February 27th, 2010 at 8:11 am
The dinner card is only a tip of the iceberg. The titanic is rot to the core…
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:21 am
I take it you are not talking climate change?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:26 am
Radio New Zealand is lucky this is not happening.
The wide ranging strategic review to be announced next month will see the BBC close two of its radio stations – digital stations 6 Music and Asian Network – as well as shut half its website and cut spending heavily on imported American programmes in an overhaul of services. It will introduce a cap on spending on broadcast rights for sports events of 8.5 per cent of the licence fee, or about £300 million.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article7042533.ece
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:42 am
“Posted by Darien Fenton on February 26th, 2010
After protesting at parliament last week, followed by Labour MPs writing to the speaker, cleaners at Parliament have sent their own letter to the Speaker, asking him to assist. This is a big deal for these cleaners to do this, just as it was for them to protest outside parliament last week – they’ve never done it before and as they say, they are largely invisible, working during the night when politicians are sleeping to keep their offices clean and maintained to a high standard.
Meanwhile, I want to introduce you to Jaine Ikurere, who cleans John Key’s office. She’s signed the letter, and like the other cleaners at Parliament, earns just $12.55 an hour.
I hope Mr Speaker listens to Jaine and her fellow cleaners”.
what is wrong with Labour MP’s that they set themselves up like this .. how much did Jaine get cleaning Helen Clark’s office.
Vote:I am soooooo proud of myself in refusing to comment on such blatant hypocrisy from these leaderless wankers.
February 27th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Agree with jaba, what a crock of shit, so the 9 years Labour was in power and Jaine may have been cleaning Huluns office, why did she not earn more….
Labour you are a disgrace to this country
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:51 am
I’ve been thinking of ways RNZ could gain revenue from a degree of commercialisation, and some are quite inventive, and do not impinge on its live broadcasting, but then I thought, surely governments would then just reduce its funding even more?
Regardless of the straw man arguments DPF puts up, RNZ has been on rations for a long time, and yet it is instructed by the government as to the role it must fulfill.
And the talk of bias is just crap. Sean Plunkett and Geoff Robinson are as dry as burnt toast, and the only difference between Brian Crump and Garth George on climate change is that Crump is just more subtle, a lancer rather than a stabber, like George.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:55 am
“I take it you are not talking climate change?:..new word for the lexicon..mandamus..implications? ..litigation?..tip of the iceberg
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:02 am
Talking about icebergs, take a look at this.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:04 am
oops ,edit..new word for your lexicon LUC.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Your point, SBK?
You want to sue someone for less climate change?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:21 am
PRIME TV yesterday evening screened a documentary on features of the earth’s formation dealing quite a bit with tectonic plate movements, some of which may be measured today to be 1cm a year so obvious movements are over periods calculated to be millions of years, just as mountain peaks, containing shells and other evidence to show they were at one time at sea level, would take similar lengthy periods to reach the heights they have.
Vote:All these durations would seem to be well beyond the Biblical record of approximately 6,000 or so years that I understand Kris K and others to claim as being the correct ‘length of Creation’ and I wonder how they explain the obvious geological evidence, as it stands outside the question of the origin of life itself or theories of evolution or not?
I don’t wish to swamp the General Debate with the usual arguments that Evolution engenders – just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology.
February 27th, 2010 at 9:24 am
me,sue..no..dont have the resources..the point being “others do”
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Best country breakfast ever. Venison steak and eggs. Country living is sure great.
and Yvette
Put there to test your faith. You fail. Hellfire for you my dear.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:29 am
Ah, the Hellfire – killed an awful lot of non-Europeans, that missile.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:29 am
CNN Poll: Majority says government a threat to citizens’ rights
Posted: February 26th, 2010 09:00 AM ET
From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser
Fifty-six percent of Americans say the government poses an immediate threat to individual rights and freedoms.
Washington (CNN) – A majority of Americans think the federal government poses a threat to rights of Americans, according to a new national poll.
Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they think the federal government’s become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens. Forty-four percent of those polled disagree.
The survey indicates a partisan divide on the question: only 37 percent of Democrats, 63 percent of Independents and nearly 7 in 10 Republicans say the federal government poses a threat to the rights of Americans.
According to CNN poll numbers released Sunday, Americans overwhelmingly think that the U.S. government is broken – though the public overwhelmingly holds out hope that what’s broken can be fixed.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/26/cnn-poll-majority-says-government-a-threat-to-citizens-rights/?fbid=TyXgKLsF67Z
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:31 am
I wonder when their Civil War II will start?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:39 am
It won’t. The dumbing down of education, the destruction of public space by corporations and the endless supply of drone TV keeps the American public totally apathetic.
And, in its usual slight of hand, the corporists blame the government for loss of freedom when the greatest assaults on individual freedom and liberty is from the corporation.
The only hope for a free society is the destruction of the corporatist model, the winding back of globalisation and the overthrow of the “free market” myth.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:40 am
“Ah, the Hellfire – killed an awful lot of non-Europeans, that missile.”…..”but” who pulled the trigger..
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:43 am
The ineffable empty-suit Key speaking in Auckland: “On that basis, they (the elderly) have nothing to fear from a GST increase – in fact for superannuitants, they’re going to be better off.”
The man who promised no more taxes is doing all sort of verbal gymnastics to justify his broken promise. If so, Mr. Key why to stop at 15%, lift it to 20% and the elderly will be even better off.
The neo-socialist National Party is pushing nothing but a continuation of failed Labour Party policies.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Only a braindead commie could utter nonsense such as the way to freedom is through destroying the free market. You should get some hints from the Soviet Union on that course of action. Oh hang on….
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:47 am
” The neo-socialist National Party is pushing nothing but a continuation of failed Labour Party policies.”
Key and the Nats are the ineffectual and cowed prisoners of the left wing media, the real controllers of the NZ political condition.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:51 am
sbk
You got me there
Who do you know in the US or Israeli armies?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:57 am
The budget for RNZ divided by the number of (claimed) listeners works out around $60 per listener.
This is well within the means of most NZers and if they want to listen then they should subscribe and free non listeners from the financial burden of paying for a radio station they do not listen to.
There is no reason RNZ can not exist on the same basis as SKY television. Government should not be in the entertainment business, and government should not be forcing some NZers to pay for the entertainment of other NZers.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Luc, just out of interest, how many family members do you have in the Israeli army?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:08 am
” The neo-socialist National Party is pushing nothing but a continuation of failed Labour Party policies.”
Had to do this for a 3rd time, one of the better sentences I have seen in many a moon, so so true….
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Whafe, just out of interest, what that’s got to do with you? Or the price of fish? Or the price of a Hellfire?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:13 am
This is not a chat room. Take your idiot one on one conversations to email.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:18 am
Indeed Redbaiter Lucy is on the sky diamonds.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:18 am
Redbaiter
You get forced to pay for lots of things you don’t necessarily get direct benefit out of. Like pensions. Like the road from there to nowhere in particular. Even education of our young. Sad, isn’t it?
Public broadcasting has a special place in most freedom loving countries. It’s a bastion of independence and non-bias in amongst an orgy of bias!
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:20 am
RB
If you don’t want a reply, don’t address your remarks to me.
It’s not rocket science.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:21 am
“an orgy of bias!”
What government are we talking about lucy, Liarbour or Nutional?
Talking of rockets and science lucy, when is that short arse mad prick from Iran going send a few towards the Holy Land?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:25 am
” You get forced to pay for lots of things you don’t necessarily get direct benefit out of.”
That is correct, and that you think such compulsion is morally acceptable is why you are a socialist and a thief and I am a supporter of liberty and have my morality intact.
” Public broadcasting has a special place in most freedom loving countries.”
Public radio’s objective is the destruction of freedom and the growth of the all powerful state, that state that it owes its existence to and is therefore beholden to.
..and if hearing left wing whiners using other people’s money to push their unpopular views is your thing, you should pay for it you swine and stop stealing mine. I have no moral obligation to provide entertainment to amoral brain fucked socialist scum like you.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Slimy lefty socialists should be hung at dawn.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:28 am
” If you don’t want a reply, don’t address your remarks to me. ”
I’ll address who I want. I am trying to get you to understand that this is not a chat forum. Kiwiblog is dying as a discussion forum and it is because of the prevalence of low IQ bores like you and your superficial drivel.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:34 am
@Yvette
The usual coping mechanisms are to:
Vote:(a) deny that the science is correct, that scientists employ circular reason to date things (e.g. fossils date the rocks, rocks date the fossils); or
(b) God plants a lot of false evidence around as a test of faith, so it only looks as if the earth is 4+bn years old.
February 27th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Luc, you mentioned in your message from the other thread the other day about you trying to buy machines when you were an industrialist. Did you ever think to yourself that those machines you had a looked at were a product of capitalism or not? Just curious, because it seems that you rant about capitalism and at the same time enjoy the fruits, wealth and productions capability of capitalism, such as you’re using a computer to post a message here on Kiwiblog, you use a cell-phone for your personal & professional communications and many other things around you? Is capitalism bad because it produces the things that you enjoy everyday or is it simply because you have a pre-conceived idea that it is something bad for no good reason at all?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 11:02 am
“I don’t wish to swamp the General Debate with the usual arguments that Evolution engenders – just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology.”
Ha! you guys can’t help yourselves can you.
In fact almost every debate on religion on kiwiblog is started by people that claim to have dismissed it, yet all they want to talk about………………
Insecure much?
“just some Biblical literalists explain millions of years of geology”
Ok, so we are going to do this again.
Fact one: The majority of Christians do not believe in the 6000 year age of the earth.
Fact two: Legalistic doctrine is the primary cause of the 6000 year creation belief, it is linked to the type of biblical interpretation that the Pharisees engaged in, the guys that wanted Christ dead.
Fact three: There are several ways of interpreting Genesis that offer little or no problems with the record of geology, in fact Genesis is the only creation narrative of any religion that can be reconciled to science at all, ie no world on the back of a turtle.
Fact four: Some of the first geologists to consider an ancient earth were in fact Christians that believed in creation over aeons of time, their work was and remains very important to geology.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Lynn Fiebig (Liebig) should get five years prison. If only we have a moral justice system!
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 11:27 am
I did say that the government does not serve a democratic role or accountable to the people who voted them in. Rather they change their faces to follow the capitalists few. The media does the rest, so really RNZ and TVNZ are not in the interest of any citizens as are National, ACT, Labour, Greens, and te Maori Party.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 11:32 am
Lynn Fiebig (Liebig) should get five years prison. If only we have a moral justice system!
d4j…in the same way that some ‘union of fathers’ representatives weasel their way into the courtroom under the pretence of the fathers friend eh? Somewhat disengenuous at the best.
Vote:Where are the morals around that?
February 27th, 2010 at 11:48 am
“Sean Plunkett and Geoff Robinson are as dry as burnt toast”
Luc you have to be joking, or perhaps you just weren’t listening to obsequious interview after obsequious interview during Hulun’s nine long years, broken only by aggression whenever a non-Liarbore politician came on.
Mind you I’ve heard other lefties make the same comment so maybe it’s just that you’re so far left you’ve lost an understanding of where the centre actually lies.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 11:58 am
@Shunda barunda
Depends where you look though:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/19207/Most-Americans-Engaged-Debate-About-Evolution-Creation.aspx
I probably would agree with you that in most educated countries that are more secular that your fact 1) is true. But not so in the US apparently.
I also agree on your sentiment around the baiting of religious debates by some people here. Even though I share much of there views, writing “I don’t want to start a religious debate here, but…” is equal rhetorically to “I am not a racist, but…”
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Taken from the Heralds website .. top part about “future PM” Shane Jones.
He did not recall the details, but said the sum he repaid was possibly for after-dinner drinks. Although the meal was related to his portfolio, he had looked at his statement later and decided to repay some of the costs.
“I met part of the costs because I didn’t feel it was all related to being a minister. I looked at it and said, ‘No, that’s over the top.”‘
His admission precedes the release of the records of former Labour ministers’ credit cards, requested under the Official Information Act and likely to happen as soon as next week.
It follows this week’s release of those of National ministers – which led to Phil Heatley’s resignation from his fishing and housing portfolios for signing off a $70 wine purchase as “dinner”.
Mr Jones said he could not remember his accounts in any detail and intended to check them.
He could not recall if there was any personal spending but said it was highly unlikely.
Other former Labour ministers contacted were fairly confident their records were all right but said if any of the spending was found to be inappropriate they would face up to it.
hahahahaha a must read
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Lofty – d4j has no part in the corrupt union of fathers. Never have and never will.
Liebig lacks morals, the IHC for gawds sake. Stop and think about it.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Thanks d4j, my mistake.
Vote:Yes I agree re Liebig.
February 27th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
@Shunda barunda
I completely agree. Young earth beliefs are not endorsed or professed by most Xtian denominations.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Redbaiter (8998) Says:
February 27th, 2010 at 10:28 am
” If you don’t want a reply, don’t address your remarks to me. ”
I’ll address who I want. I am trying to get you to understand that this is not a chat forum. Kiwiblog is dying as a discussion forum and it is because of the prevalence of low IQ bores like you and your superficial drivel.
Redbirther, I suggest you take a look in the mirror before accusing others.
Your “contributions” here are
1. Great swathes of cut and paste about the US and the Bridezilla of the GOP. Most people don’t give a tinker’s cuss for that.
2. Aduse and vitriol at anyone who dares to criticise your idiotic cut and pastes or the subjects thereof. You are unable to accepot criticism and respond with debate, and when someone foolhardy enough to try to engage you in debate, they are just subjected to more of your bile.
3. A very occaisional, reasoned albeit wrongheaded, post.
Why not drop 1 & 2 and lift your game on 3?
Regards
Russell.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
@ jaba 12.03pm – just blogged about that, and about Tracy Watkins’ Dom-Post column which is in a similar vein. It would seem that Labour’s former ministers are not off the hook, and they have no H2 to defend them any more!
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/02/embarassment-coming-for-labour.html
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Shunda barunda 11:02 am,
Even if your assertion is correct, that doesn’t make it a fact. So called majorities often ‘get it wrong’.
That’s a pretty long bow, and some might say it’s offensive.
Just because someone may interpret the Bible, and consider the scientific evidence, and come to the conclusion that the earth/creation is of the order of 6,000 years old DOES NOT automatically imply they embrace “legalistic doctrine” and are the equivalent of modern day “Pharisees”.
I could make ‘broad sweeping’ statements about Christians who DO NOT accept the literal account of Creation, the Flood of Noah (and ignore supporting science), etc., but that is senseless unless my aim is to have other than meaningful debate.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Roughly how old would you believe the earth to be then Kris?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
or the universe for that matter?
And I agree with you, Kris K, on the point whether the majority of Christians believe that the world is 6000 years old or not does not make it a fact.
Scientific evidence makes in a fact. An irrefutable one, too. Only the extremely ignorant today claim that the world is merely 6000 years old (or in that magnitude)
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
A nice piano tune on youtube here and a a short acapella rendition of the same song by the group that originally sang it in the late 1980s. It’s nice tune to listen to while sitting outside the deck on a nice sunny day like today to drink beer and whiskey.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
@eszett
In @Shunda barunda’s defense, I believe he was merely distancing most Christians from the YEC doctrine, not attempting to demonstrate that the correctness of a belief hangs on its popularity.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
” Why not drop 1 & 2 and lift your game on 3? ”
Why don’t you go fuck yourself? You couldn’t string two points into a logical and reasoned outcome if your life depended on it. Sitting there like some blinkered cawing crow on the extreme left of the political spectrum and totally ignorant of the fact that 95% of it exists to your right. Troglodytic bore.
” Regards ”
You can shove your regards peanut brain. I don’t need them.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
The problem for a Christian believing in an old universe is that it means interpreting one part of the Bible figuratively rather than literally. If your whole worldview is founded on a literal interpretation of the Bible, to question the literal truth of one part is to question the literal truth of all parts. Evangelical Christians don’t have the authority of the Church to turn to in questions of literal or figurative interpretation of scripture. It appears to them as all or nothing. If you say that Genesis is not literal, who’s to say that the life and being of Jesus is not figurative?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Yvette 9:21 am,
EVOLUTION VS CREATION:
I love the way people make such statements as:
“so obvious movements are over periods calculated to be millions of years”, and “obvious geological evidence”.
The only thing ‘obvious’ is that long time periods (millions/milliards of years) are assumed; and therefore “1cm a year” multiplied by “millions of years” equals ‘millions of centremeters’, and therefore, it is assumed, evolution MUST is ‘true’.
ALL of your “millions of years” can easily be explained away by the biblical Noah’s Flood. The Flood was much more than just ‘a bit of rain’. It rained 40 days (the canopy collapsed), the wells of the deep ruptured and spewed forth subterranian water sources, and there was volcanic and seismic activity uncomparable to our modern day experiences. As a result huge swathes of sediment were laid down covering forests and animals; fossilising them or converting them into oil/coal. Some of the coal, shells, etc as a result of seismic activity ended up well above sea level in mountains, etc.
If one considers the TRUE evidence in an unbiased way, then it actually substantiates the biblical account of creation and Noah’s Flood, and rather than supporting evolution it actually undermines it and shows it to be nothing more than a manmade contrivance with the aim to, primarily, discredit the Creator.
I wrote this this other day (GD 23/02/10) – it’s worth restating here:
DARWINISM, MARXISM & REVOLUTION
You know when the likes of Fredrich Engels, Karl Marx, and Leon Trotsky sing the praises of Darwinism/Evolutionary Theory that you have to pause and ask some pretty serious questions about the motives behind those, including Darwin, who push this theory:
Darwinism is actually the mechanism by which societal values and belief in God are transformed/removed, and thus paves the way for Secular Humanism and Socialism/Marxism to reign supreme. The state is now the new ‘God’, and the elite that rule it are demi-gods which are not to be questioned and must be worshiped as well.
I guess Marx, Trotsky and Darwin ALL got their dreams to eventually come true.
Vote:Those that blindly follow Evolution must question whether there is an overarching agenda behind it and ask why exactly must Evolution not be questioned – and those (scientists) that do often find themselves scorned, without funding, and often out of a career for daring to challenge the religious precepts of Evolution and its high priests.
February 27th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Kris,
You believe that a great flood, with subterranean sources of water gushing forth, could create oil?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Those that blindly follow religion should question whether there is an overarching agenda behind it and ask why exactly must religion not be questioned.
But they won’t.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Ryan Sproull 1:58 pm,
I couldn’t have said it better myself, Ryan – thanks.
And, additionally, I believe the science actually supports the literal interpretation of the Bible regarding creation and the flood of Noah.
Many ‘Christians’ who deny the literal biblical interpretation regarding creation, etc., often also reject many of the prophetic elements of Revelation, Daniel, etc., whether Israel is still ‘God’s chosen people’, and some even question the truth of the literal virgin birth of Christ.
Once you question one element of the literal interpretation of the scriptures, suddenly everything is up for grabs – as you so eloquently stated.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Ryan Sproull 2:05 pm,
With a few subsequent and intermediate processes involved (as previously described) – ‘Yes’.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Pete George 2:10 pm,
I think I’ve made a pretty good case for not “blindly follow[ing] religion”, Pete – but thanks for your usual level of word twisting and misrepresentation of what others have said.
I think the truly blind are those who embrace Evolution and Atheism (both religions by the way) and worship at their respective (the same?) altars DESPITE the evidence they’re confronted with.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Well said Kris.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
I was merely demonstrating how your statement could easily be viewed differently.
How could you confront someone with evidence against Atheism? It is a lack of a belief due to absolutely no evidence, not a belief.
It’s funny when you try and turn evolution into a religion, it is a severely flawed tactic. IF it was a religious belief it would be as unsupported by evidence as all other religions.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
“I think I’ve made a pretty good case for not “blindly follow[ing] religion”,”
sorry, havent read the whole thread, but that stuck out.
so you dont blindly follow religion, but if a mother gets a gf, you want to have their children taken off them.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Poor old Kris, once again flogging the “both religions by the way” line as he is incapable of thinking outside a religious mind set.
Neither evolutionary science or atheism share anything in common with religion. They are not belief systems, in fact, atheism is a rejection of belief systems and evolution is open to continually testing and improvement.
There is far more evidence in favour of the truth and accuracy of evolutionary theory than there is for all the world’s religions combined. Atheism can be proven quite simply by noticing all the evidence for god’s absence. Atheism is the default position at birth. No one, not even JC himself, is born with a religious belief.
As for the fantasies of Genesis, there are so mnay problems there if you try to read iot as anything more than a morality tale. How the f*&k did Noah fit the dinosaurs on the ark, keep the lions from eating the monkeys and provide enough gum leaves for the koals?
I’d be more than interesyed to see Kris address address these points.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Redbaiter (8999) Says:
February 27th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
” Why not drop 1 & 2 and lift your game on 3? ”
Why don’t you go fuck yourself? You couldn’t string two points into a logical and reasoned outcome if your life depended on it. Sitting there like some blinkered cawing crow on the extreme left of the political spectrum and totally ignorant of the fact that 95% of it exists to your right. Troglodytic bore.
” Regards ”
You can shove your regards peanut brain. I don’t need them.
Thanks redbirther, for confirming my point.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Quite, so 6000 years ago (or thereabouts) a vast volume of water was released from caverns no-one has ever detected-
- being close to the core of the earth this water was super-heated, yet somehow did not boil to death all the plant, marine and aquatic life it covered.
- then assuming it’s salinity matched freshwater, the subsequent inundation didn’t cause the extinction of all plant and marine life;
or if the salinity matched sea water, somehow did not cause the extinction of all plant and aquatic life;
then drained away perfectly back into caverns no-one has ever seen or found, and in such a way that salinity levels in all fresh and salt water bodies were perfectly restored without any mingling;
then as it drained, the fossils were formed rapidly in such a way to exhibit perfect sorting of types and different levels of mineralization by strata,
- then some of the biomass was turned into stored carbon (oil, coal, chalk) in such a way, that 27,000 times more biomass is stored as carbon in the earth’s crust as we have on the surface today;
- that this was all accompanied by catastrophoic geological events worse than the Taupo eruption or Krakatoa, leaving absolutely no evidence of this in the geological record;
- then squeeze all the mutations on the genomes of organisms into this period, giving people a mutation rate 1000 times greater than blind sic scientists have measured, ensuring for instance, that Down’s syndrome cases would become a mere 1300 times per 1000 births, not 1.3 times.
Somehow this looks like a whole lot of ‘woo’ and pretty devoid of scientific evidence.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Glad to be of service. As you know, I’m familiar with the subject matter.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Pete George 2:35 pm
Someone saying, “I believe there is no God”, IS a statement of faith.
Someone saying, “I KNOW there is no God”, IS a liar, as to make such a statement requires all knowledge – at best someone can only say “I believe …”, which is a religious statement.
dime 2:36 pm,
If you can’t be bothered reading what I’ve said, but are happy to just ‘cherry pick’, then I can’t really be bothered engaging with you.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
Below is another case of name suppression.
What are the odds that
This mother will get permanent name suppression?
Will not got to jail?
That a father would neither get permanent name suppression or a non custodial sentence?
I must keep a look out for Interesting Names
Mother in court for underage sex
An Auckland mother has allegedly been having sex with her 14-year-old son’s best friend, after plying him with “copious” amounts of alcohol.
She has been arrested and charged with unlawful sexual connection with a young person. She cannot be named for legal reasons.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3382299/Mother-in-court-for-underage-sex
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Kris K (1659) Says:
February 27th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Pete George 2:35 pm
How could you confront someone with evidence against Atheism? It is a lack of a belief due to absolutely no evidence, not a belief.
Someone saying, “I believe there is no God”, IS a statement of faith.
Someone saying, “I KNOW there is no God”, IS a liar, as to make such a statement requires all knowledge
No it doesn’t. It simply requires sufficient knowledge and deductive ability to deduce there is no god.
Kris, a couple of simple questions, as you seem to dodge the hard ones-
1. At birth, which god(s) did you believe in?
2. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, what religion would you be?
3. What evidence would you require to give up your belief in god(s)?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
What about someone who says “I have not seen any proof of a god”?
Someone saying, “I KNOW there is no God”, IS a liar,
No more than someone saying “I KNOW there is a god”.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
No, you’re setting up a false dichotomy.
Atheism is the position that the currently, the evidence that there is a God (or any Gods) is woefully insufficient. It’s about evidence, not beliefs. That’s why atheism is not a religion. Or as some have put it, atheism is a religion in much the same way as bald is a hair colour.
I would still be prepared to claim that some religions cannot be true as they make claims that logically fallacious or the evidence they claim as their support, is non-existent.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Talking about name suppression, did this case slip under the radar? No favours for someone with a profile.
Former MP’s son named as accused after acquittal
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
I wonder how evolution and science explain abnormal activity, and by “abnormal activity” I mean the citing of ghosts, haunted houses, experiences with supernatural activity, exorcists/exorcism’s, etc.
It takes a great leap of faith to be an Atheist and reject the entire concept of “life beyond death” and this is why a debate exists between whether or not atheism is a type of religion.
So far evolution has failed to explain the above nor has atheism.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Kris K – “The Flood was much more than just ‘a bit of rain’. It rained 40 days (the canopy collapsed), the wells of the deep ruptured and spewed forth subterranean water sources, and there was volcanic and seismic activity incomparable to our modern day experiences. As a result huge swathes of sediment were laid down covering forests and animals; fossilising them or converting them into oil/coal. Some of the coal, shells, etc as a result of seismic activity ended up well above sea level in mountains, etc.”
So such seismic activity occurred as to raise vast mountain chains around the world, from our Southern Alps, to the Himalayan masses, and Noah and his family along with a large number of animals [seven pairs of each ritually clean animal - Gen 7:2 - fourteen bison but fortunately only two elephants] survived this global volcanic activity as well as the flood of waters which inundated the entire surface?
Surely the debris from such global seismic activity would have caused the equivalent of a ‘nuclear winter’?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Chthoniid 2:47 pm,
Of course if the caverns were destroyed in the preocess we’re unlikely to find them today.
And who said the water was close to the earth’s core?
And who said the preflood sea had any salinity to start with?
If there was no rain prior to the Flood, plus little time had lapsed since the creation, then one would expect to find minimal, if any, salinity in the preflood ocean (there was only one)
I think you’ll find that most dinosaurs are in fact “extinct”.
And when the water drained away it .. formed modern day oceans.
There’s only “perfect sorting” in some areas, in others it’s been mixed up due to ongoing seismic activity during the flood and following months.
Stuff lived longer, grew bigger (due to a different atmosphere – oxygen rich), and the land mass was much larger than today – next.
Yes, BIGGER than Taupo or Krakatoa.
Plenty of evidence – oil, coal, fossils, extinct dinosaurs, mammoths, etc., mountains, oceans (plural), the continents (plural) – how much evidence do you want?
I’m not an expert in the area of genetics, but I think you have bigger problems to deal with first regarding macro-evolution and the lack of the many ‘Missing Links’, before we start debating “mutation rate[s]” and “Down’s syndrome”.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Yvette 3:26 pm,
Yep.
Survival of the ark and its inhabitants was in God’s plan – and so thay survived.
Perhaps for a short period the temperature dropped until such time as the atmosphere ‘cleared’ allowing the earth to warm again. Much seismic activity would have been below water, plus with a water dense atmosphere minimal dust would stay aloft for long.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Kris
seriously, that’s pretty lame. God destroyed the evidence of caverns.
There was a good growing season so the earth’s surface generated more than 27,000 times more biomass? 27,000 times! As I’ve explained already on 2 occasions, photosynthesis isn’t that good- you just don’t get that much growth becuase opf biochemical constraints. Besides which- 27,000 times! Look at a forest somewhere and imagine it being more at least 27,000 times larger in biomass.
In terms of geological evidence, your claim that mountains , dinosaurs etc are accounted for by the flood amount to zip. These amount to evidence of slow geological events, occasional switching of magnetic poles etc. And it doesn’t explain why early fossils are so much more mineralised.
The real problem you’ve got with YEC is you can’t avoid the extinction vortex that must result. Either everything dies in a mutational meltdown or everything dies under the pressure/geochemical changes of a large inundation, or everything dies in a massive outpouring of radioactivity, or everything dies in massive inbreeding, or everything dies via depensation.
We don’t need to throw a lot of scientific evidence at YEC, because it’s quickly obvious it is a peculiar, dogmatic view of the world that can’t escape the result that everything must already be dead.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Ah, the wonders of the no regulation free market system that the National government followed in the nineties.
Yep, the bloke sums it up well, a National government disgrace.
Why did Labour not fix it ? what, take the blame for rates doubling in the Auckland region, fuck that, a Nat fuckup, now you Nats will have to solve the problem without pissing off taxpayers or ratepayers.
Good luck Jafas with your next rates bill.
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/leaky-homes-national-disgrace/1117/32678
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Kris, what “missing links”?
That furphy has long been put to bed.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Andrew Lesa said…
I wonder how evolution and science explain abnormal activity, and by “abnormal activity” I mean the citing of ghosts, haunted houses, experiences with supernatural activity, exorcists/exorcism’s, etc.
It takes a great leap of faith to be an Atheist and reject the entire concept of “life beyond death” and this is why a debate exists between whether or not atheism is a type of religion.
Perhaps you should read some philosophy first:
Importance of philosophy
Start with the links on the left hand side of the page with:
- Metaphysics
- Epistemology
- Mystical Metaphysics
- Irrational Epistemology
Those links will enlighten you.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Chthoniid 3:52 pm,
Of course everything DID die except for that which was on the ark – eg most dinosaurs, mammoths, etc. died.
And your so called “mutational meltdown” and “massive inbreeding” are both non starters if life had only been around for ~1500 years at the time of the Flood, and it was still, essentially, genetically sound.
God even permitted marriage between close relatives post-Flood (Abraham and Sarah were half brother/sister though married) until outlawed under Moses in Leviticus – so until this time inbreeding was a non issue as the ‘stock’ was still pure enough.
If you look through a 6,000 year ‘lense’ most of your issues disappear.
How’s your search for ALL those MISSING LINKS coming along?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
No Kris, that won’t do.
Half of the ‘killers’ I’ve mentioned are post-Ark flood. Doesn’t matter how you package it, you end up with everything dead. You can’t get our modern human genome from a perfect stock (or indeed anything else) without a massive leap in mutation rates creating meltdown. It’s impossible. To go from perfect human genes to where we are know, you’re talking about 200,000 mutations a generation. Good luck with that.
That applies to us and every other species. Who incidentally didn’t have anything to eat as the long inundation wiped out all plant life.
I hadn’t bothered with the missing link fossil argument because it’s absurd- and fallacious as it’s based on ignorance of the fossil record. There’s plenty for you to look up by yourself.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Chthoniid 4:36 pm,
No Chthoniid, that won’t do.
I hadn’t bothered with the “leap in mutation rates” argument because until you deal with the MACRO evolution issue of the many MISSING LINKS there’s no point address Micro evolution issues such as “mutation rates”.
And where are ALL your missing links if I’m so ignorant of the “fossil record”?
Perhaps you can enlighten us – I’m sure a few of your ‘cohorts in crime’ would be much appreciative of this evidence, too, as they haven’t been able to find any evidence either.
Good luck.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Why, Kris, do you include the volcanic-geological upheaval you describe in with the Flood, when Genesis [7:11-24] makes no mention whatsoever of that? It just rained and water was also released from under the earth to eventually rise ‘seven metres’, however many cubits, [Genesis 7:20] above the mountain tops. Surely the formation of land features would be back in the third ‘day’ of creation [Genesis 1:9-10] ?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Wow, you have well and truly “enlightened” me Falafulu Fisi. Thank you.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
There are more absurdities around Noah’s Ark.
A) The limited gene pool for one. It’s absurd to think that it would have been possible to create everything from just a pair of each animal.
B) The sheer size of the ark to be able to host that many animals, which would of into the hundreds of thousands (Just think of all the insects that would have had to be there)
C) The ability to build such a large structure in that time (planning, materials, execution)
D) The ability to host a suitable habitat for all creatures from deserts to arctic, from rain-forests to savannas
E) Food supply. How would it possible to feed the amount of animals. Water would probably not be a problem, since it rained.
F) Waste. How did the toilets work? All those animals would have produced a huge amount of waste.
G) Seefood. God destroys all the land-dewelling animals, but sea life continues on without a problem.
Believing in Noah’s Ark literally you have to suspend all logic and reason. Of course you can argue that God provided for all those questions. But you have to kinda wonder, if he is so omnipotent, why did he need an Ark? Couldn’t he just have destroyed everything he wanted to destroy with a mere thought and get over a done with it? We did he need Noahs help?
Well, because it would make a good story, would it now?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Getting bored Kris, I know you’ve got nothing.
Here’s a quick list of reptile-bird transitional forms
Eoraptor, Herrerasaurus, Ceratosaurus, Allosaurus, Compsognathus, Sinosauropteryx, Protarchaeopteryx, Caudipteryx, Velociraptor, Sinovenator, Beipiaosaurus, Sinornithosaurus, Microraptor, Archaeopteryx, Rahonavis, Confuciusornis, Sinornis, Patagopteryx, Hesperornis, Apsaravis, Ichthyornis, and Columba, plus more coming as we continue to get new finds from Spain & China. Edit- + Anchiornis (recent discovery of Chinese origin)
The missing link Creationist canard is based on intellectual dishonesty and misrepresentations of fossil evidence. Do not expect me to respect any more requests of this nature when it is available in published, scientific papers you can look up.
& at molecular level, DNA link between Tyrannosaurus and modern birds- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6548719.stm
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
@d4j 12:08 pm
Ah, the mad dads are scrapping amongst each other!
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
General Debate was good today huh?
Vote:Except is was not General, the whole thread was corrupted by Religious nutbars. But I guess that was general.
I will just go back to the beach tomorrow and enjoy life. The Religiously Handicapped are so boring.
February 27th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Evolution doesn’t try and explain it at all, they have nothing to do with each other.
Science doesn’t explain it because there is nothing scientific in it to explain.
It takes a great leap of faith to be an Atheist and reject the entire concept of “life beyond death” and this is why a debate exists between whether or not atheism is a type of religion.
Not so. You have it round the wrong way. There is not proof of life beyond death, so it takes a great leap of faith to believe that there is life beyond death.
In any case being an Atheist doesn’t mean having to reject the concept of life beyond death. You don’t have to believe in a god to believe in some sort of concept of life beyond death.
And do all people who believe in some sort of god really believe in literal life beyond death?
I’d presume many people who don’t believe in gods will not believe in life beyond death because it involves the same logic – no evidence.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Pete, I would beg to differ.
The neurology of possession refers to the concept of Exorcism and no such “evidence” exists to challenge the “spiritual” process that most religious experts believe is the possession of other spirits.
There are neurological and anthropological relationships with exorcism and it is prudent to assume that science has no business trying to explain such process.
Science is after all constantly challenging, changing and editing existing/former theories, practices and assumptions.
I acknowledge your leveled attempt to correct my previous comment and accept my ignorance on the matter, thank you for pointing this out to me.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
“The problem for a Christian believing in an old universe is that it means interpreting one part of the Bible figuratively rather than literally.”
Only a problem for people who worship “the book of the Lord” instead of “the Lord of the book”
Vote:There is no one fail safe method of biblical interpretation, there are clearly aspects of it that can be interpreted through a number of methods.
Genesis includes a number of literary forms including a dual account of the entire creation event, there is also use of a repetitive style that is repeated elsewhere in the scriptures.
The six thousand year creation doctrine is mainly pushed by Christians with a strong legalistic bias, they can usually be rejected due to their other often incredibly hostile nature and lack of integrity (Kent Hovind).
Young earth creation has done tremendous damage to Christianity but there is evidence that it is a position that is now in decline.
Thankfully!
February 27th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
” Except is was not General, the whole thread was corrupted by Religious nutbars. ”
It takes two to obsess. Pete George, Clint and Yvette are equally to blame. Professing not to believe in God yet writing endlessly on the subject.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
There is nothing wrong with christianity as long as they don’t coerce others or violate their rights. So all christian bashers here should piss off.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Noah would have had some problems -
Ark: 133m long 22m wide 3 decks – maximum deck space 8778 square metres
When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month the flood started.
[Genesis 7:11] When Noah was 601 years old on the first day of the first month the water was gone [Gen 8:13] By the 27th day of the second month the earth was completely dry [8:14] Then God told Noah to leave the Ark.
So Noah, his family and all the animals and birds were in the Ark, with sufficient food, for I year and ten days.
An elephant [sow-crated] occupies about 8 sq metres minimum, consumes 200 kg of food a day – 75000 kg of food for the duration, each.
Vote:Lions would require a supply of other animals as food and those animals would themselves require food.
The oxen, bison, water buffalo, horses, deer, moose, zebra, wildebeest, yaks and rhinoceros alone would easily account for the odd 778 square metres, not including their one year’s supply of food.
February 27th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
I sometimes wonder how these fundamentalists can bear to use computers (eg for websurfing, in the ignition systems of their cars, in their cellphones, etc, etc). Isn’t the design and manufacture of chips now a matter of subatomic physics, with circuits laid down so finely as to be separated by the width of a few atoms or molecules? How do they reconcile quantum mechanics with God? And do they give any thought to how often the number 666 must come up in the course of the multitude of calculations that a computer performs in the course of their use of it.
And ghosts, haunted houses, possession, exorcism? Unreliable brain chemistry seems more likely.
Perhaps they subscribe to the Discworld view: all those machines are operated by little Pixies who work away frantically to amke things happen for us. Let’s hope Matt McCarten never gets interested enough to unionise them.
The Pixies, that is, not the fundamentalists.
I’m just relieved that no one of sound mind lets these nutters near the education so far as it affects my son
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Yvette 4:59 pm,
It is believed (by some) that when the “fountains of the deep” ruptured [Gen 7:11] that this was a result of massive seismic activity, as you would expect. And while it only rained for 40 days, the Bible says [Gen 7:24] “… the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.” It was only after this that [Gen 8:2] “The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;” So there is every reason to expect geological shifting and seismic activity to continue throughout this period of time (150 days) at least.
One only needs to consider that if the entire globe was covered with water this would, additionally, place massive stress on the earth’s crust which would likely have resulted in subsequent deforming, and even more seismic activity as a result of these induced stresses.
This could have resulted in large depressions (which later formed our modern day oceans) and induced counter ‘upshifts’ resulting in the formation of mountains and high hills.
Also, it is understood that part of the result of the fountains of the deep rupturing was the inducement of continental plate shifts to at least some degree.
We’re talking of a major, unprecedented global catastrophy of which we’re likely to never see a repeat of – with the exception, perhaps, of when the Bible speaks of God destroying the Old, and making a New heavens and earth – hard to top that one.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Just to change tact, is anyone else getting really pissed off with ads on Sale after Sale after Sale…..
It is astounding that people still but into all this sale stuff…. Went to get my daughter some clothing today at Pumpkin Patch, the whole place is a mess because they are constantly on sale…..
Dont get me wrong, sales are useful at times, but it has gone to far of late….. A Whafe rant over
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Turning to something more important (at least here in NZ) – see Shoeshine in this week’s NBR (NZX suggesting that they would put Allied Farmers into the index (with the inference that NZ Farming Systems Uruguay woulkd be promoted out), followed by a flip flop a few days later). Just imagine if you’d had shares in Allied Farmers or NZ Farming Systems Uruguay. Values entirely messed up due to the incompetence of NZX. No wonder it’s hard to get Kiwis to move their money out of bricks and mortar. You’d have to be a mug to have your money in the sharemarket while NZX runs it. Especially given that only paid subscribers of the NZX Datamail service got the first round of information. Is it insider trading when it’s wrong?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Kris K: “It is believed (by some) that…” “…which would likely have resulted in…” “…this could have resulted…..” Like most Christian fundies, when something just doesn’t make sense or isn’t supported by Scripture, Kris K just makes shit up.
Kris K, prove the Bible isn’t actually the work of the devil and a false idol for you to worship and lead you off the true path to your god. Show us where in the Bible your god said something like “Build me a Bible and call it the Word of God”.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
eszett 5:09 pm,
Why?
God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.
It’s been proven that all of the land animals that went through the Flood could have reasonably fitted within the ark. And, of course, you could take infants.
Insects likely got a lift on floating debris.
Noah was following God’s instructions – where’s the problem?
Prior to the Flood there were no desert, artic, rain forrest, savannas regions. The world had a moderate and uniform climate. Plus there was no rain prior to the flood. It is more the miracle that they survived AFTER the flood when the weather was no longer uniform and moderate.
While I believe Noah could have provided for the animals by ‘natural’ means, there is no reason God couldn’t have made supernatural provision. Ever heard of the Children of Israel being feed in the desert by God in the form of manna? Or of Christ feeding the 5,000 from a boy’s lunch of a few loaves and fishes?
Is this really a problem?
Chuck it over the side.
Correct.
The purpose of the Flood was to destroy sinful man [Gen 6:7]; the destruction of the animals was just an unfortunate by-product. Only those animals that weren’t ‘good swimmers’ needed to be taken onto the ark.
Puzzled in Ekatahuna (7:45 pm):
Vote:Hopefully I’ve answered your queries as well.
February 27th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
pjje,
Why don’t you offer some form of substance alongside that empty, ignorant rhetoric of yours? Some of us have heard it all before…
You could start by explaining all the “forged fossils” discovered to fit the theory of evolution together over the years?
There was the famous Chinese Archaeoraptor Scandal published in 1999, the Brontosaurus, (the gentle giant of dinosaurs, revealed as a fraud.), The “Piltdown Man”: the famous paleontological hoax, the Nebraska man, the Java man, the Peking man, etc, etc.
Oh and lets not forget Radiometric Dating flaws:
The validity of radiometric dating depends upon the three listed assumptions being correct – The decay rate being a constant, the parent/daughter ratio when the object being tested was “created”; and the assumption that there has been no loss or addition of the parent or daughter component throughout its history.
Lest we forget the day that science was opposed to scientific “assumptions”. Oh how much can “conveniently” change.
We could go on for ever pjje, I’m only worried that your son will loose all the credibility he ever had towards you.
Vote:Now it might be easy for you to happily point out the ignorance of religion but don’t you go thinking that evolutionist’s are without fault either, your head appears big enough for that already.
February 27th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
I am not a lawyer, but I remember roughly what lawyers have said in previous discussions on blogs.
From my recollection, then, name suppression in sexual abuse cases such as this is required by law if revealing the name would identify the victim. “son’s best friend” is probably a close enough relationship to allow people to figure out who the victim is. So, the mother (even if found guilty) will get name suppression unless/until the victim applies to have it lifted. The same would be true if the offender were male.
I have no idea what the sentence will be (if found guilty).
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Heh, awesome.
“This is too absurd to be true!”
“It’s not absurd if you believe this other thing which is also too absurd to be true!”
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
pjje 7:51 pm,
If you have ever considered “quantum mechanics”, then you’ll realise that it resides more in the meta-physical than the so called natural realm.
Ever heard of Schrödinger’s Cat?
Quantum Mechanics resides in the God realm – thanks for bringing it up.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
It’s not all thought experiments (eg, the double slit experiment – there’s a link to an article in the Schrodinger’s Cat wiki article, in case you’re interested). How are the pixies in your PC tonight? Did the number of the beast come up yet?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Heh, Kris is awesome. It is somewhat inspiring to see someone twist logic so much to defend something he truly believes in.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
May I suggest home detention and community work.
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/home-detention-woman-who-had-sex-friend039s-young-son/5/14025
I believe that the sentence would be a lot different if it was the case of a father having sex with his daughter’s best friend after plying her with alcohol.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
A Sale sign is pretty much a “We’re open again this week” sign these days. It means nothing – apart from warning you that something not “on Sale” is most likely grossly overpriced.
Up top 50% off means everything else is double the price it should be.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
brainsrightout and Puke spreading their anti-Western, anti-prosperity horseshit. You two should get married. It’s legal now.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
[Why?
God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.
Heh, awesome.
“This is too absurd to be true!”
“It’s not absurd if you believe this other thing which is also too absurd to be true!”]
Actually Repton, it is not all that absurd, the theory of human evolution also points to an “Adam and Eve” pair that all modern humans are derived from.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Kris – “God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.” [to the Flood]
So if Creation is about 6000 years old, with 1500 years pre-Flood and 2000 years being the era AD, that leaves 2500 years between the Flood and Christ’s birth. But the archeology, Kris, which you would say supports the Flood and other Old Testament events, also records Egyptian dynasties from XXXII 332-30 BC back to Archaic Period I, 3414 BC, and back beyond that a Predynastic Period [Early] of 5464 BC. That’s just under 3000 years different to your timeline, by the archeology that validates your other beliefs.
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
I have to say, though, I’m not especially knowledgeable on quantum mechanics. I didn’t even know that it is to be capitalised. Like God, perhaps?
Looking for help now. I’ve spent a decent part of the day cutting firewood, including with the chainsaw. Newly sharpened for the firewood season. But it’s starting to show signs of needing a touch up. And I know from experience that with my file I won’t get it as good as the shop does with its machine. In fact the guy who sharpened it for me tells me that he faces the same problem, and only touches up a couple of times before going back and sharpening on the machine.
So I was thinking of buying a machine myself. Not one of the $1,000 plus benchtop ones. One of the smaller ones that costs $100 to $200. I found couple at the BuyWright site (isn’t Google great?) that run off 12 v batteries. So no problem using them up the hill and away from a power point – just it hook up to the 4wd battery (I better make sure it is 12v). Has anyone who reads this ever used one of these things? Have any comments to offer on whether they are any good?
The other possibility that I had in mind is the Dremel rotary tool attachment or similar (cheap, with some great reviews on Amazon.com, but in my case requires either a new rotary tool or access to a power point). Does anyone here have any thoughts on these attachments?
Vote:February 27th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
God all this discussion about religion.
I hate to tell you this people but religion doesn’t really have a lot of relevance in modern day New Zealand because there is not a high enough percentage of Muslims in the country YET to start blowing up and murdering innocent people.
Of more concern maybe the certain cultural doom the country faces and when it will become a police state.
Remember that movie Sleeping Dogs?
By the way, I never realised Sam Neil was Irish until today.
Better start deciding where will District Nine be?
Otahuhu, Otara, Mangere or the East Cape?
Vote:February 28th, 2010 at 6:21 am
pjje: “Dremel rotary tool attachment”
I’ve tried this, they wear out very quickly so each bit can’t be used many times before it a) loses it’s correct diameter, and b) wears out altogether.
I’d also be interested in knowing if there are worthwhile reasonably priced sharpening kits.
I take mine chainsaw in for a decent sharpen a couple of sharpens each year, and hand file it – the key is to do it often, maybe each time you use the saw, it’s a lot easier to maintain an edge compared to filing up a very blunt chain.
The small amount of time spent filing the chain is more than made up with a lot cleaner faster cutting.
I read somewhere that keeping things stored in a pyramid (eg razor blades) keeps them sharp, but I don’t think they tested it on saw chains back in the day. I’m also as dubious about the whole idea as I am about many of the ideas mentioned in this thread, wishful thinking and praying seem to go together.
Vote:February 28th, 2010 at 8:03 am
@Shunda barunda
Except the mitochondrial Eve is 200,000 years old and Adam was 50-60,000 years old & that this molecular tracking of evolution does not indicate the human population was down to these few individuals.
At an analogical level, all we’re doing is following the ‘river’ of human evolution back to one feeder stream, by picking one tractable marker. Just as all the water from a river doesn’t come from one stream, our genome didn’t come from one single human ancestor.
Vote:February 28th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Sometime today Kiwiblog is going to clock up comment number 666666. Better stay away today Kris K, just to make sure it isn’t yours.
Vote:February 28th, 2010 at 8:39 am
There is a devil of a smell around here. Morning swampthing.
Vote:February 28th, 2010 at 8:42 am
NOAA tsunami graphic
http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/2010/02/27/725245/08/ttvu725245-08.jpg
Well worth a look…
Vote:February 28th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Just want it noted that the religious nature of this general blog was started by Yvette who blogged about the no doubt irrefutable findings of scientists and the measuring of movement of tectonic plates showing the earth must be millions of years old and not thousands as implied in the Biblical account of creation.
So it wasn’t a Christian who ‘hijacked’ this particular thread. Just want that noted for the record.
Vote:February 28th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
But Scott, God made her do it.
Vote: