Introducing Bryan Law
While Kiwiblog is primarily for my views, I have from time to time run guest posts from people with a different point of view.
My good mate Mike Moore (no not the famous one) is mates with Bryan Law, and asked me if I would consider allowing a couple of guest posts from Bryan while he is over here for the Waihopia trial in early March.
My stance to the protesters was rather unsympathetic, but I am a big believer of freedom of speech, and am happy to have Bryan put a different point of view.
The trial of the ANZAC Ploughshares – 3 Catholic Worker “activists” who deflated a Kevlar dome at the Waihopai intelligence base in April 2008 – is due to commence in the Wellington District Court on Monday 8 March. The trio, Fr Peter Murnane, Sam Land and Adrian Leason are charged with wilful damage to the value of $880,000. http://www.cairnspeacebypeace.org/?p=32
A broader collection of peaceniks and greens are supporting the three during their trial, and some will use the occasion to promote fairly extreme views around how to end war and develop democracy. A look at their program http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/pltrial.pdf reveals that Murray Horton (anti-bases campaign), Moana Cole (Ploughshares), Keith Locke (Greens MP) and Bryan Law (Christians Against ALL Terrorism, Australia) will speak about the issues at a public meeting on Wednesday 10 March, at St John’s Church Hall.
Bryan Law is completely unknown here, but enjoys a certain notoriety in Australia. In recent years he’s stood trial with others for breaking into the Pine Gap intelligence base in central Australia, trespassing into the Shoalwater Bay military training area in central Queensland, and swimming out in front of US warships in his home town of Cairns. Bryan is particularly proud of the Christian activists’ efforts at Shoalwater bay, where he claims the live-firing component of Exercise Talisman Sabre had to be stopped because of the trespass actions. He claims this article explains pretty clearly the tactics and methods that allow ordinary citizens to intervene into and stop war. http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/story/2009/07/01/notorious-protester-hits-shoalwater/
As I said, Bryan’s been in contact with KiwiBlog, courtesy of my old colleague in crime, Mike Moore from CairnsBlog. He says that KiwiBlog looks “pretty cool”, but a lot of the commenters appear to him as hostile and uninformed. He says that:
“If these people had any idea about the traditions and actions of the Catholic Workers, they’d understand just how close to the original Boston Tea Party, the American revolution, and the ANZAC spirit these ploughshares activists stand. I hope the present Tea Party hopefuls in the US and elsewhere get serious about a resurgence of democracy. The world sure could use it”.
I predict we will have some lively debates between Bryan, and others. As always, passionate exchange of views is fine, but deeply personal abuse will get sanctions.
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:36 pm
After their burglary they maliciously damaged property that didn’t belong to them.
They didn’t deflate a dome, they damaged/destroyed it by cutting it.
I’m looking forward to their trial and convictions, preferably with some jail time.
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:44 pm
How many protests have these cowards carried out in Red China or Russia or where there are thousands of like bases all aimed at intimidating or threatening the west. These misguided narcissitic fools are the fifth columnists for those who would destroy the west.
…And what the hell are they bringing Christianity into it for? This is not a damn religious issue. Its a national security issue and whether anyone is god fearing or secular don’t matter a damn.
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Well I hope the Taliban thank them for ensuring their communications go unintercepted. Then they can oppress and stone a few more women. Great work, guys!
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Seems like my sort of Christian DPF – fighting for the sort of justice Christ believed in.
Unlike the ones who come here and bang on about the “evil” of homosexuality all the time.
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
We’re delighted to share Bryan and his views with the good people of the Land of the long white stereotype.
I suggest anyone interested, should head along to St John’s Church Hall on Wednesday 10 March and join in the debate and hear a different view.
Here’s an Al Jazeera BBC documentary that took a look at the covert spy base near Alice Springs, that Bryan Law with others, breached in a 2005 citizens’ inspection of the US-run Pine Gap defence facility. Bryan and others are interviewed about their reasons, which will be similar to those arguing in Waihopia trial, I suspect.
http://www.cairnsblog.net/2009/04/house-of-rudds-secrets.html
Enjoy!
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:55 pm
“and swimming out in front of US warships in his home town of Cairns.”
Cripes. If the crocs didn’t eat him, and the boxed jellyfish left him alone, I suspect he may have made a deal with the devil
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:55 pm
The sort of justice Christ believed in…. how do you make that assessment toad ?
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:57 pm
I’ll cut my neighbours fence down, kick his front door in and rip up his couch – but I’ll say I did it for the right reasons so you will all think I’m cool !
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:59 pm
as long as it improves democracy, you’re on burt
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:01 pm
” Here’s an Al Jazeera BBC ”
Are you nuts?? Modern day Pravda with half as much credibility as their forbearer.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:06 pm
petal
Improves democracy…. well if I think it will then I’m justified destroying private property – right ?
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:07 pm
I’m sorry Bryan Law, you may think we’re all ignorant, but frankly, we have our own full time activists that are full to the brim with their own self righteousness. Some even run a blog
But while our way of life still includes the mechanisms for peaceful change, I can not see any argument that justifies the behaviour under discussion. Hey – I applaud the freedom to protest in that way, as long as you accept the obvious and well known repercussions: fines and possibly jail time. IF this is the price you are willing to pay to raise an issue in the way you choose to raise it, then we’re all good here.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:13 pm
I thought he may have failed the ‘Good Character’ aspect for a tourist visa but then find it is only for 24 months or longer stays or apply for residency.
http://glossary.immigration.govt.nz/Goodcharacter.htm
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:14 pm
This really should be quite interesting, even if I probably disagree with his position and actions to the hilt. As noted the downside will be if we just get lots of rubbish being thrown around, rather than a lively debate.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:15 pm
BTW, one of the key sentiments that bring people into the Tea Party movement is patriotism. I doubt many of them would welcome the presence of people who sabotage and weaken our own defence forces and act as the propaganda tools of our enemies.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:17 pm
If Toad thinks he’s a good bloke that should be enough reason to treat him with derision and contempt.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Well, I’m Catholic and I think they deserve jail time. They don’t represent the Church in their actions.
EVERY country has it’s spy bases and defense systems and we do need them.
When the enemy arrives, let’s just get all the Ploughshares folk to stand out front holding hands with daisies in their hair singing, “all we are saying is give peace a chance”. That will convict the hearts of any enemy who might attack us and they will feel sorry and leave.
Yeh right…
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:36 pm
As long as his posts are marked clearly so I don’t waste my time starting to read them I have no problem.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:47 pm
So these guys think that to stop war, they need to sabotage our countries defense infrastructure? Thats not activism, that is treason. These guys remind me of the World Peace Council?
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
I agree completely Tinman. I will not be wasting one moment with his posting as I strongly object to his actions which in my view cannot be expalined away by blog posts.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
David, have you lost your marbles? There is a vast difference between ‘free speech’ and providing a soap box for this rabble of bigoted ratbags, outlaws and extremists.
Were this 1945 would you have provided such a facility to Heinrich Himmler and Fat Herman?
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Michael Moore.
I would be interested in the reaction of the losers who turn up at this event should fifteen or twenty people decide to give these parasites a dose of their own medicine and protest loudly.
I wonder what their reaction would be to that.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Intelligence is stabilising. If you don’t know what potential enemies are up to and what their capabilities are, then you have to plan for the worst possible outcome. Which means enough troops and weapons to handle any contingency. But if you do know what is going on in the world then you can tailor your forces accordingly. This is the reason that Cold War era NATO and Warpac signed the Open Skies treaty, allowing countries to overfly each other to ensure that neither side were amassing tanks on their borders.
So I’m perplexed as to why these guys think that collecting intelligence, alone or in conjunction with allies, is a bad thing. Do they want us to formulate our foreign and defence policies on the basis of ignorance? And increase defence spending enough to handle the largest threat to New Zealand that we can imagine, regardless of what the actual threat to the country is?
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:09 pm
I always thought you were the Land of the Long White Cloud. But I can see that Redbaiter, BlairM and Fletch think it’s the land of the long wild cliche. Dragging red herrings across a perfectly good debate. China, Russia, the “Taliban” even. My goodness you have tunnel vision.
Perhaps their ignorance is understandable, after all the GCSB has a long history of lying to the NZ people about Waihopai and what it does. If it’s like ASIO, it also has a long history of lying to the NZ government. (Maybe Redbaiter’s just trusting and gullible.) But the ANZAC Ploughshares are made of sterner stuff. Their dome-busting revealed once and for all that Waihopai is involved in supporting the US wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan (the Pakistan war being still undeclared).
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/415754
And that a lot of the intelligence collected comes from Vietnam or Japan, long known as hotbeds of Taliban activity.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3257505/Locals-ferret-out-Waihopais-secrets
Of course, if you believe the US spy network engages in commercial and diplomatic espionage, and is used to strengthen US competitive advantage – then Waihopai and the work it does makes perfect sense.
You should be grateful to the ANZAC Ploughshares for getting these truths out to the public in a country that likes to believe it’s a democracy.
Petal – nonviolence activists like me, and like the Waihopai dome-busters only take action because we believe so strongly it’s the right thing to do. Of course we’re prepared to pay the price of acting on our conscience. A Christian conscience isn’t just something we bring out and polish every Sunday, it’s the code by which we live. I and my family, and most of my friends, think it’s a pretty good code by and large – even if it gets misused from time to time. Our job is to clean it up.
As NZ citizens of good will, you’re job is to keep your democracy intact and your government accountable.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:12 pm
” Were this 1945 would you have provided such a facility to Heinrich Himmler and Fat Herman? ”
Or even worse, Psycho Milt.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Well, I’m Catholic and I think they deserve jail time. They don’t represent the Church in their actions.
Do they claim to?
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:21 pm
While you’re about it, why don’t you go the whole hog and open the blog up to all those who want to use anarchic measures against society. FFS.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Does Keith Locke have insurances for his possessions/properties? If he does, then what was his motives for doing so? Intelligence services is vital for national security of any country, really. It is a form of insurance. Keith Locke is a hypocrite if he calls for the disestablishment of our intelligence services, while he himself insures his possessions/properties in anticipating some unforeseen potential damages & losses to what are his.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Already open to them projectman and some use it.
I’m prepared to listen to what he has to say (read) and possibly to debate if he is prepared to engage. Understanding can work both ways. Could be interesting.
They obviously have a right to protest, but also a responsibility to remain lawful or accept the consequences. At the moment I have major doubts that destroying property (ours) of substantial value is justified.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:41 pm
I’m interested to hear what Law has to say.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:54 pm
I looking for as a minimum, jail time and fine/restitution.
I also suggest that their passports be confiscated for 5 yrs as part of sentencing and the burglary conviction be deemed as serious as it is for foreign travel/visa purposes.
Similarly appointment to boards and government structures should be curtailed.
That must include all those who knew beforehand where and what they were going to do, all the drivers and shoppers/lenders of equipment, incl those who gave them hospitality and shared the dream in the days before the operation.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:07 pm
*yawn*
Another anti-American, communist zealot. Someone should introduce him to Minto when he’s over. They’d get along like a house on fire.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:11 pm
they probably already have each others email addresses.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Bryan Law: Why I must protest
“I practise and advocate Gandhian and Christian non-violence to ensure excellence in political action and community organisation. ”
“It’s possible I’m a crackpot, but I believe non-violence and civil disobedience are great tools for building, restoring and maintaining the democracy we need for human society to develop. ”
More: http://wotnews.com.au/news/Bryan_Law/
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:23 pm
“It’s possible I’m a crackpot, but I believe non-violence and civil disobedience are great tools for building, restoring and maintaining the democracy we need for human society to develop. ”
Has he tried it in Tibet or Beijing yet? If he cares about democracy to the extent he professes, maybe he should start work in places where its most in short supply.
Crackpot??
Just another narcissist.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Some of the Waihopai vandals were also prominent in having Algerian Islamic politician Zaoui stay in NZ after his illegal entry. To hell with them. They don’t want to work by democratic means, changing opinions and standing for election. They want to subvert the democratic process and force their minority views on us.
I note Ghandi’s name cropping up in Law’s Australian groups. Ghandi-style pacificism works only against a democratic state, such as Britain was and is. Russia, China, Nazi Germany etc would have soon stamped these protests out. By being able to affect only one side of the democracy-totalitarianism stand-off they weaken democracy and strengthen the totalitarians.
I would be more impressed by Law’s efforts if his vandals also took hammers to planes in Beijing and Havana, and if they ripped into state-security radio sites in Iran.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 pm
The first link provided by Law is interesting.
Firstly because the article is unattributed yet refers to ” ……. my 1996 book about the agency …” An axe to grind?
Secondly because of the language. It speaks as if matters are of proven and uncontestable facts. Pretty much like the
AGW alarmists technique of self righteous pontification.
Thirdly by its use of a mingling of publicly known facts and supposition presented as if by an insider. About the only self-evident thing not said was that the Director usually craps at least once a day. Again a common technique of the nutbar-fringe-conspiracy-theory brigade
and last the real statement that the author never said while looking in the mirror “…. it’s easy for people to sound off in uninformed ways. ….”
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Anyone who had a grasp of the history of the word ANZAC would not have misapropriated it and used it to attack the military.
Ignorant, uninformed and hostile would be good descriptions for them.
No peacenik waving a sign ever won dick for his country.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:45 pm
If one uses a country such as China with a terrible human rights record to defend ones actions one must see that is a perilous path to go down.
I for one would like to read what he has to say. I dont neccesarily agree with what was done, but I do think it is important that a country keeps their secret services honest to a level as their power is fairly epic.
And RB, believe 88% of Fox forum readers believe the Tea Party are a “Fruitless mix of racism, conspiracy theories” hehe http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/02/09/think-tea-party-movement/
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:46 pm
That war in Shoalwater Bay that Bryan is claiming to have stopped, hadn’t heard of it.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:47 pm
No peacenik waving a sign ever won dick for his country.
I reckon Ghandi did pretty well for India.
An Sun Su Kyi is still fighting the good fight in Burma and has so far managed to keep the move for freedom mostly peaceful.
It didn’t take a bunch of morons in khakhi to bring down the Berlin wall, yet all that sabre rattling managed to keep it standing nigh on 30 years.
MArtin Luther King and Rosa Parkes led their country to a new understanding of humanity, without needing guns, but the losers had to use a gun to silence King.
If the only answer is war, maybe you’re asking the wrong question.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:59 pm
I’m interested to hear what Law has to say.
Well thank fucken god you felt like sharing that.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:00 pm
“It didn’t take a bunch of morons in khakhi to bring down the Berlin wall, yet all that sabre rattling managed to keep it standing nigh on 30 years.”
Silly old me. I thought it was Reagans threat of escalating the arms race into space that made Gorby realise he could not compete and he had better surrender.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:01 pm
If he does front I’d like to gain his opinion on the Colombian conflict, especially since Ploughshares have protested pretty much every government action that has led to its decreasing death toll.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:01 pm
I suspect the debate will not be overly liveable, rather people will just point out (with varying degrees of subtlety) that these dudes are bunch of prats.
I see a Ghandi comparison above. Yes, although that only worked because of the relative humanity of the British Empire (or, at the very least, a sensitivity to criticism). If he had tried such an approach in Nazi Germany he would have been killed and that would have been that.
I do, however, agree that there are similarities to the Boston Tea Party in so far as the activities are treasonous!
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:04 pm
LeftRightOUt posted at 3.47:
If the West hadn’t stood up to the Soviet Union from 1945 you are correct that there would have been no Berlin wall. The Soviet Union would have ended at the English Channel.
The chiefly American stand-off with the Soviet Union in the Cold War arguably brought a relatively peaceful almost half-century to the world. Yes, there were Korea, and Vietnam, and smaller conflicts such as the Malayan Emergency. But these were tiny compared with the war which would have occurred in Europe, but for the US-Soviet highly armed stand-off.
And yes, Ghandi did well for the Indian people against Britain. But the Laws-style vandals want people to confront their home governments. They adopt pseudo-guerrilla tactics and shun the Parliamentary democratic process.
Where were these activists in the Cambodia of the Khmer Rouge, in Taleban Afghanistan, or in today”s Saudi Arabia or Iran? Too hard, eh? Or are they at heart on the side of the totalitarians?
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:09 pm
I reckon Ghandi did pretty well for India.
Thats 1
An Sun Su Kyi is still fighting the good fight in Burma and has so far managed to keep the move for freedom mostly peaceful.
Fail! She still aint won dick.
It didn’t take a bunch of morons in khakhi to bring down the Berlin wall, yet all that sabre rattling managed to keep it standing nigh on 30 years.
Fail! Epic epic fail! Regan, Thatcher, fucken enormous cold war spending.. any of that ring a bell… Korean War, Vietnam, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan… is any of this ringing a bell? Added fail for your blatant smear on all armed forces (you might want to save your ire for the politicians).
MArtin Luther King and Rosa Parkes led their country to a new understanding of humanity, without needing guns, but the losers had to use a gun to silence King.
Fail! They may have been anti violence, pity their followers were not.
If the only answer is war, maybe you’re asking the wrong question.
And “Peace at all costs” has proven just so jim dandy hasn’t it!
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Where were these activists in the Cambodia of the Khmer Rouge, in Taleban Afghanistan, or in today”s Saudi Arabia or Iran? Too hard, eh? Or are they at heart on the side of the totalitarians?
I don’t know jack5, but where were/are you? Sitting at a keyboard moaning that others haven’t done something you could be doing yourself. Off to Iran with you, or is too hard?
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:12 pm
@burt (3964) Says:
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:06 pm
I was being sarcy Burt.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Burmese Civil War: 1948 – present
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Big bruv said “I would be interested in the reaction of the losers who turn up at this event should fifteen or twenty people decide to give these parasites a dose of their own medicine and protest loudly”.
15 or 20? In a city the size of Wellington? Plus you’ve confused “loudly” with “effectively”! Just who do you represent big bruv – “Puerile Piss-ants for US propaganda”?
As for the myth-makers assertions that
(i) We had a cold war as distinct from a continuing series of proxy wars,
(ii) Reagan’s absurd military policies forced the Soviets to concede, and
(iii) Super-power relations are now stable and friendly due to the continuing arms race
Seek professional help
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Now you’re getting it. It is impossible for one person or small independent group to be effective. We need to cooperate and support a network of massive intelligence gathering and military force. Only this way are we be able to confront the prospect of war and be able to prevent it.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:43 pm
LeftRightOUt at 4.11…
I apologise for the criticism, but what you have been doing, LeftRightOut? Carrying posters and cheering on these leftist vandals in NZ? Sitting on “Life of Brian” type committees? Standing at a computer station in a hair shirt and sandals because the bourgeoisie generally sit at keyboards?
Leftists have been chipping away at the support for our SAS guys in Afghanistan. Get over there and talk with the Taleban. In the meantime, you must be fucking mad to think ordinary Kiwis would go to Iran or Afghanistan or China to sabotage military sites and so parallel your dirty work in NZ. You are the blokes that claim militant pacificism works. If you’re sincere take it to the totalitarians as well as to democratic countries.
Thought not.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:02 pm
bryla>Just who do you represent big bruv – “Puerile Piss-ants for US propaganda”?
Weird insults. Ignorance of history in favour of loopy conspiracy theories. Tacit support for vile regimes that shit all over their citizens, and opposition to countries like NZ that stand up for their victims. It’s JUST like reading KCNA press releases. But more smug and patronising!
“Pyongyang, February 21 (KCNA) — The Joint Conference of Civic and Public Organizations against the Move for Troop Re-dispatch to Afghanistan in south Korea called a press conference in Seoul on Feb. 18 in protest against the puppet authorities’ move. The organization accused the “National Assembly” of working hard to take up and clear the “motion calling for re-dispatch of troops to Afghanistan.” The “government” and conservative media of south Korea are pursuing the move for the re-dispatch of troops to Afghanistan while talking about “reconstruction” though it is becoming clear as the days go by that the Afghan war ignited by the U.S. is a war of genocide for its hegemony, held the organization. Noting that the U.S. forces keep committing man-killings in the area to which south Korean troops are expected to dispatch, the organization warned that in case the re-dispatch of troops to the area is decided south Korea will not be able to escape international condemnation. It demanded the authorities give up at once the above-said move.”
http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:06 pm
I don’t know jack5, but where were/are you?
Can’t speak for jack5, but I’ve supported all the action taken against the countries you mention – include in that list Saddam’s Iraq, which I’m sure you bemoaned to high heaven when the yanks rolled in..
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
Romans 13:1
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:14 pm
As for the myth-makers assertions that
….. blah blah blah, you sound just like a facist.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Sam, from your 5.07, if you aren’t a Jehovah’s Witness, surely you are a provocateur from the pacificist-vandal mob.
Even Quakers went to war as ambulance drivers, etc. Jehovah’s, though brave and refusing to fight, went to the camps in Germany thinking as per your post. In at least some concentration camps they willingly served as servants of the SS, but declined to handle or clean military uniforms. Similarly as JW conscientious objectors in dictator-era Argentina.
However, Sam, I suspect your post is a straw man set up by a militant pacificist so his/her confederates can pound it.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Oh not the fucken god botherer’s. I tell you I have nothing against god, its his bloody cheer squad I cant stand.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Bryla is just DPF’s pet penguin trying to get in an early first strike. If that’s the best you can buddy stay in Oz and take Russel Norman back there as well. We got enough aussie wankers here already.
Brylas link:
http://www.cairnspeacebypeace.org/
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Bevan
very illogical.
He loves his church, so you don’t like what He loves.
Then you gotta bigga problem that you think.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:32 pm
“Oh not the fucken god botherer’s.”
Spoken by a real wankster.What a crackpot.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:32 pm
“Oh not the fucken god botherer’s. I tell you I have nothing against god, its his bloody cheer squad I cant stand.”
Notice there ain’t any on GD today. Hallelujah Lord.
Maybe they are a comin here instead following their cheerleader the commie-catholic , Bryla?
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:37 pm
I’m not a Bible student, and I generally listen to rather than lead theological discussion. I’ve seen that Romans passage before, and heard it put into perspective. Try this effort on Christian nonviolence from the Rev Simon Moyle from Melbourne – one of the 11 trespassers into Shoalwater Bay last year.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/if-jesus-had-a-gun-who-would-he-shoot-20100130-n4fx.html?comments=58#comments
or this one by Jarrod McKenna from Perth, another of the same team as Simon Moyle.
http://paceebene.org/blog/jarrod-mckenna/if-four-daggy-christians-can-do-anyone-can-bonhoeffer-4-photos-brian-mclaren
These fellas can give you all the theology you want.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Get a load of this lot of tossers. There he is listening not leading (Who the fuck would follow a wanker like that?) Thank God the Aussies have got the Yanks to defend them.
These are type of creatures DPF is trying to foist on us. I think we should protest. Anyone got a megaphone?
http://www.cairnspeacebypeace.org/?page_id=2
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Bevan, I resent being called a facist – I’ve never posted on face-book in my life.
Johnboy, hee hee hee, luv the friendly rivalry bwtween Oz and Kiwi.
“Q What do you call a Kiwi in a suit? A The defendent”
“Q What’s the difference betwee a Kiwi and ET? A ET went home”
And the classic from PM Muldoon, when asked what he thought about so many Kiwis migrating to Australia – “It will improve the average intelligence of both countries”.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:46 pm
MikeNZ… Let me see, Ive got the problem cause I dont like what he loves…. Isnt that what gay people say about christians and gay marriage?
d4j, crackpot? seriously dude – there’s a phrase, something about the pot and the kettle….
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:47 pm
“It will improve the average intelligence of both countries”.
Not if we cut all communications – then we can pretend there is no intelligence and be happy with our great leap backward.
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:47 pm
“Q What do you call a Kiwi in a suit? A The defendent”
Thats rich coming from the country founded by convicts whose national hero is Ned Kelly…
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Which of the queer looking fellows in that lovely photo would be you Bryan?
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:49 pm
These are type of creatures DPF is trying to foist on us. I think we should protest. Anyone got a megaphone?
http://www.cairnspeacebypeace.org/?page_id=2
They look very inbred, are they from Cairns or Tasmania?
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Oh Bevan how many times do you dribble the “pot and kettle” phrase, really get another braincell you boring dropkick!
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Bryla
I respect your choice to protest and I respect your call that it is for democracy. But really are you serious? Hideous things happen in govt everyday that undermine democracy that you can make a hell of a noise about without risking time in the can. Where were your crowd when the EFA was being rammed through parliament under urgency to tilt the playing field for the Labour party? Where were your crowd when Labour were giving dear leader a free get out of jail card because she didn’t want to stand in court? Or is it only anti US stuff that registers on your “radar” ?
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Hey burt, thanks for the respect. I think it’s important we make space for all the different kinds of people we have here on planet Earth, and all I can do is call it as I see it.
Long ago a fellow inmate told me that “Opinions are like arseholes, every body has one. Why should I listen to yours?”
I don’t know enough about NZ politics to even have an opinion on the issues you raise, and I certainly wouldn’t disrespect your country by trying to tell you what to do. I’m coming over to support a group of activists with whom I’m in accord, and I’ll be sharing some knowledge and experience I’ve built in that field.
Apart from that I’ll be listening to local views, and gawping at a new place that everyone tells me is beautiful. Your part of Earth.
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Oh Bevan how many times do you dribble the “pot and kettle” phrase, really get another braincell you boring dropkick!
Seriously d4j, you saying crap like that is like a downs kid calling someone a retard.
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:02 pm
“Long ago a fellow inmate told me that “Opinions are like arseholes, every body has one. Why should I listen to yours?””
Shit man. You are so profound. Fuck I think I am converted. What a genius. Where do I sign up for your little circle jerk?
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:10 pm
I wonder if Bryan Law really knew what a cesspit of ignorance and prejudice of every stripe he was entering here. Oh well, he’s finding out now, for sure. Bryan, you will find that If they run out of red herrings and simplistic reductio ad absurdum arguments, the ad hominems and juvenile insults take pride of place.
The good news is that the vast majority of visitors read but don’t post, probably scared off by the verbal violence evident in every thread, and that is the audience serious people must aim for.
I’m agnostic over the issues that energise Bryan, although I probably should seek out more information, so checking out the links will be a good start when I get the time. For example, is it true that the spy bases are used more for spying on us (NZ citizens) than any international purposes? This is a question even the most irrational Kiwiblogger should be concerned about.
I will watch the development of this thread with interest.
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Luc
You should get on board with Bryla, now that your high priest of global warming is looking like a false prophet you might want to pick up on religion for something to believe in.
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Bryan is a man of big heart who deserves respect for spending a large chunk of his life working for a more peaceful world. Having attended meetings and actions organised by him, I wish him luck and advise anyone who can to get out to the public meeting on March 10 and to go with an open mind and an open heart. Be brave enough to be changed! You won’t be bored..
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Bryla/Luc……..Spock/James.T.Kirk. The melding of the minds. Eat your heart out Gene Roddenberry.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Sarah, when I see Bryan swimming in front of an Iranian warship in the Straits of Hormuz, then I’ll believe him. Until then he is no better than the Soviet sell outs in the so called World Peace Council.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Right on cue, burt. What did I say about red herrings? i suppose Muslims and Palestinians will make an appearance here soon too!
And Johnboy, thanks too for confirming the rest of my post above.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:14 pm
For what? Is there any evidence? Or do those under surveillance just disappear like ET.
Yes, we need to try and keep our governments honest. But not pay the price of paranoia.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Sorry Luc I don’t quite follow? Bryans the little fatarse in the blue shirt so have you got extremely prominent ears then?
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Oh great, the “peace” (see: weakening the West to the point where it is incapable of being able to defend itself) brigade. YOU CAN’T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR ARMS etc.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:25 pm
“Bryan is a man of big heart who deserves respect for spending a large chunk of his life working for a more peaceful world. Having attended meetings and actions organised by him, I wish him luck and advise anyone who can to get out to the public meeting on March 10 and to go with an open mind and an open heart. Be brave enough to be changed! You won’t be bored..”
Sarah, Sarah, (Or is your name Judith), sorry to disillusion you but Bryan is not the Messiah of peace he is just a naughty little boy who can’t spell his name properly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af9EHtQMMc4
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:36 pm
As opposed to being the agitprop wing for the Venezuela Solidarity Movement.
And then you proceed to alienate the audience you wish to broadcast your message to by insulting them. Fucking brilliant. I knew tarpaulin cutting didn’t involve much brain power, now neither does being a ploughsharer in general.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:48 pm
“Seriously d4j, you saying crap like that is like a downs kid calling someone a retard.”
Two mongs don’t make a right bevan!
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:52 pm
Luc Hansen, a man in desperate need of a conspiracy.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Bryan seems to have a few disciples. Perhaps he is the Messiah.
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Well last time he visited Blenheim he broke my bloody Juniper bush.
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Pete, that’s why I’m asking, seeking evidence for that allegation. Like most people, it doesn’t cause me great concern. But we must all be aware that one day, in some circumstances, even an elected government may use information gained secretly for undemocratic purposes. It happens elsewhere.
Transparency, particular as relates to us Kiwis, would put such concerns to rest.
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Bevan,
I would have spent some time accusing people of facism, but I foresaw you having that angle covered.
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Bryla
I’d be interested to get your opinion of Niki Hager using stolen emails in his book The Hollow Men.
February 22nd, 2010 at 11:15 pm
The Heroes of telemark cetainly knew how to pick their target just look for the big beach ball in paddock, nobody to bother except the sheep.It must have taken hours of meticulous planning, split second timing all knowing they may never come back,
February 22nd, 2010 at 11:16 pm
Hey burt! I don’t know Niki Hager, but I’ve done a little back-ground reading and he asserts the e-mails in question were “leaked” by National Party insiders. I infer from this that the insiders were on the distribution list, and that while giving them to a journalist wouldn’t have been on Don Brash’s mind when he circulated the material, there was no actual stealing involved.
Politically I’d have to question the nous of any senior politician who believes their “colleagues” will not leak against them if they stand to gain by it. My Mum used to tell me that the way to keep secrets was NOT to spread them around.
Legally I notice Brash had an injunction restricting their publication, which he lifted after resigning as leader. Hager was then free to publish.
Morally I think the material gave valuable insight into dishonesty in election campaigning, and I believe voters are well served by getting this picture, and using it in coming to judgement.
Finally, I have been subjected to suppression orders sought in the Supreme Court by the Director-General of Security (ASIO). Secret orders which were made in a closed court, based on an affidavit I was never allowed to see, restraining me from mentioning that ASIO Officers were stationed at Pine Gap. I never liked those orders, and ended up defying them. When I did ASIO backed down and the issue went away.
The best material assistance I had during that process came from the Australian Federal Police who accidentally sent me a video tape with security camera footage from the ultra-secret Pine Gap Technical Area. I released that to the media at the same time I defied ASIO, and I think the security forces just kinda slunk away in embarrassment rather than face an open Court.
I like my information open and accountable.
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:37 am
Their dome-busting revealed once and for all that Waihopai is involved in supporting the US wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan (the Pakistan war being still undeclared).
Sorry, I didn’t realise this was a secret and I sure as hell don’t have a problem with it. Although goes to my earlier comment that Treason would have been a better charge. Sure as hell more fun than criminal damage (might even have been defendable). Quite how these turkeys expect to avoid being convicted is beyond me – in fact I assume they don’t, preferring to abuse the court system and turn it into a soap box for their rather strange ideas.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:02 am
Bryan, as regards leaked/stolen emails, you will find a real double standard operates here.
Nicky Hagar is a villain, but whoever stole the UAE emails is a hero.
But when one’s standards are low, it’s not hard to double up, I suppose.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:16 am
Bryla at 11.16pm on the loathsome Hager:
Well Hager would say that wouldn’t he? There’s been a police investigation going on for years and it hasn’t come up with Hager’s source. Why doesn’t Hager come clean and give names, so the public can judge whether the emails were stolen, or were merely stolen property passed along.
Copyright of a letter or remail remains the property of the sender, and the recipient doesn’t have the right to pass them on. But that is a mild transgression compared with someone stealing an Opposition leader’s email from within a Parliamentary computer system.
As for the syndicate that posts mindless, far-left trash under the title “Luc Hansen”, I respond to its 9.02am post: Villain is too mild a word, IMHO.
It’s time the so-called tough Police Minister sent a rocket to the police over the emails inquiry, any way.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:24 am
Jack5 at 5:20
On the contrary, I’m not christian, but have assumed that the teachings of Christ had some bearing on his followers – the Bible is still considered to be God’s word is it not? And I am against what Bryan Law and his crew are about.
You clearly need to re-read the passage. It clearly states that Christians should be subservient to the State – it’s kind of an extension to turning the other cheek I guess. Jesus never denounced the military, and centurions in particular tend to be held in good light in the gospels.
“Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
To defy the State is akin to defying God’s will and judgment. If this group does so in God’s name (and I haven’t bothered to see whether they are or not), then that would be the ultimate act of hubris.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 am
Sorry, Sam, I don’t buy your position. It would mean Christians like Niemoller were wrong in standing up to Hitler.
However, I’ve never met a Christian who took your position, which is consistent with the sort of weasel approach the pacifist saboteurs would take covertly to undermine mainstream Christians.
Perhaps you should join these heroes when they show moral consistency by attacking the security radio bases of North Korea.
I strongly suspect you are a leftist-saboteur in mainstream Christian drag.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
Jack5 – I am trying to show that the Bible points out that Christians shold be subservient to the State – that means explicitly NOT attacking the spy bases. What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
And I am not going to get into a discussion about Hitler on this thread, as I have no intention of defending him or Christianity. My ‘position’ was simply to point out the inconsistency between the actions of these ‘activists’ and the teachings of Christ – their own spiritual leader, not mine…
Whether or not you buy that as a position is actually quite irrelevant to me, but i have no idea why you have selected me as someone who is dishonest, or with the types of agenda that you list (agenda that I wouldn’t have even thought possible, let alone probable… I suggest that this says a lot more about the way that you think than it does about myself…)
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:58 pm
The Taliban are pure evil. They are some of the most anti-Christian, violent, deceptive, satanic, murdering bastards on the face of the earth. They are now even using human shields in their war against human rights and democracy in Afghanistan.
The US has used our bases at Waihopai to intercept Taliban communications and defeat them. Those bases have helped secure freedom for millions. Huge numbers of Afghan girls are getting an education they would not have otherwise had thanks to those very bases.
And this wanker thinks he is doing a “christian” act by sabotaging them? Is Jesus a Taliban supporter now? And the irony of accusing christians who comment here of “hating gay people” is not lost on me, given that the Taliban are of course, very tolerant of that sort of thing
February 25th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
“Huge numbers of Afghan girls are getting an education they would not have otherwise had thanks to those very bases”
Are huge numbers of women getting an eduction now in Afghanistan? I hope so ..but it’s not what I’ve read in the admittedly leftist Guardian which says that warlords with similar views to the Taliban are being placated by the government in power in Afghanistan in order to- yes, remain in power. Afghanistan is not an easy country to conquer. And the opium trade has increased since the invasion, it’s claimed.
Afghanistan didn’t used to be a fundamentalist muslim country. Women have only relatively recently become veiled. The most interesting question is what has caused this to happen? Perhaps BlairM has a theory?
And do you really believe the US went to war to liberate Afghani women? I hope it really is a side effect but surely oil was the motivation- or an oil pipeline to be exact.
I guess we all need to be sceptical of anything we read – the first casualty of war etc.
Perhaps when the missiles have just destroyed your family and everything you own, who bombed you for whatever reason doesn’t matter..
February 26th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Just to be clear Sam, the Romans 13 quote is not the teaching of Christ. It’s written by Paul the Apostle, and it’s written after the life and death of Christ.
Although jail sentences are a possible outcome of the March 8th Waihopai ploughshares trial in Wellington, an acquittal is also possible.
In Ireland, people have been acquitted of criminal damage charges by a jury after they broke into the building of defence contractor, Raytheon, and threw computers and documents from the windows.
Also in Ireland, people have been acquitted by a jury of charges for hammering with household hammers on a US Navy warplane at Shannon Airport, and beginning to dig the airport runway with a mattock.
In England, people used household hammers to hammer on a Hawk jet headed for East Timor. They were acquitted by a jury.
In Australia, at a similar facility to the Waihopai spy base, people have had charges under the Defence Special Undertakings Act overturned by a panel of Supreme Court judges. In late 2005 they broke into Australia’s top secret US spy base, Pine Gap, where they hung banners, and two photographed themselves on the roof of a building.
Pine Gap has the same radome structures covering its satellite dishes as GCSB Waihopai in NZ, and is also used for intercepting satellite communications for the ECHELON network.
Data collected at Waihopai gets sent through to foreign intelligence agencies in the UK-USA security agreement. This includes agencies in Australia, the UK, Canada, and notably the US’s National Security Agency.
It’s been alleged that data collected and relayed through GCSB Waihopai has been used by the US for extraordinary rendition; the unlawful detainment, deportation and torture of suspected combatants at prisons like Abu Ghraib in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Both Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay are notorious for prisoner abuse, human rights abuses, and torture.
I will be travelling to Wellington from Australia for some of the trial.
February 27th, 2010 at 3:02 am
It gives us a great sense of peace every night when we go to sleep.
When we know that our government is watching over us taking care of us, keeping us safe from those horrible savage muslims over there.
It also helps us sleep when we know that their is a small powerful society operating the Military Industrial complex which is dominated by a handful of allied corporations married to generational multi national banking families
(listen to the JF Kennedy’s speech that was not put to air).
http://tvnewslies.org/tvnl/index.php/members/video-gallery/viewvideo/116.html
Which are dominating the functioning reality of our existence as humans and subsequently all of life on this planet.
Well we can sleep well cause we know ..That it is not going anywhere fast.
it helps us to sleep when we know that our so called model “democracies” spreading the “good word” are totally dependable and cooperative in the bigger power struggle on this planet. As this long standing inter generational alliance of families has gone about creating this stable pyramid structure of power over humanities actions with a 180% pyramid in regards to global human rights and wealth distribution.
but its ok we don’t see what’s going on cause were drowning in wondrous choices along with being smothered by and array of convenience.
its a party for us guys..
(and as there all so very smart we know they wont wreak the party for all of us good little debt slaves, at least we are not the Asian corporate slave, some starving african or god curse us some innocent muslim family)
the human activity on this finite biosphere has as its largest section of human endeavor ingenuity, sheer brilliance material wealth and human opportunity (also much lost due to) —–totally devoted to ways of killing more humans,
maintaining the sense of constant fear and mistrust across the globe. effectively militarizing the planet
(luckily not us though hey boys, we have the big guns on our side)
and it has become faster and quicker….
and a hell of a lot more safer
but definitely not cheaper.
(well they have to spend the taxes and interest they make off us hey)
what would it be like if things were different?
That and a few more questions is what Bryan Law is hoping we will all start asking.
He and many others have come up with a few ideas which is why he sacrifices his liberties doing the stunts he carries out.
to plant a few seeds in compassionate minds that will one day become enough people that things just might get better for all of us.
“We are like men in an exclusive whore house and the US president is our head towel boy”
Quote from a Bilderberg summit
interested in the the Bilderberg group… i dare u to explore.
start here but wait do u really want to take the red pill
http://it.peacereporter.net/articolo/11246/attendee.
peace and prosperity to all of life on this planet is possible.