And yes, at my church we do practice this command (unlike many).

Interesting, what Church do you go to? I might pay it a visit.

Also, care to tell us whether this Church lives by the earlier pieces of scripture I posted, rather than your selective choice of only addressing the passage in 1 Timothy?

You may have noticed, Anna, that all of your other scripture references were from the Old Testament.
And so while these may have been commands, etc., for the Jews, they are not necessarily for the church – and certainly not the references you quoted. We live under NT Grace and not OT Law. Of course some of the OT is relevant to the church, but, on the whole, where this is the case, these teachings/values/commands have been restated in the NT.

And regarding me telling you which church I attend (in Wellington), and you paying a visit, I would have to sense a serious change in your attitudes as expressed here, and that you are genuinely seeking the Lord, or at least you are moving down that path.

As others have said; you come across as having already made up your mind.
But the Lord does indeed move in mysterious ways – the Apostle Paul is a good example of someone who was an arch enemy of the church, but who became her main advocate and, perhaps, her greatest teacher.
I guess time will tell.

If you truly seek the Lord, Anna, you will indeed find Him.

While I agree with much of what you say, I guess I believe it’s better to ‘prevent’ than ‘cure’.
By teaching our kids strong values/morals we are more likely to enable them to make informed moral choices. Of course they will get it wrong some of the time, just as adults do – none of us (Christian or not) are perfect, after all.

And in the case of Christians; while Christ DOES, and the church SHOULD, “expect that everyone will be righteous at all times”, both Christ and the church/Christians realise that we all stumble and sin from time to time. And yes, in such instances when we repent our sins we are indeed forgiven.
Heck, I still sin – but my intention is not to.

Sometimes, as I mentioned earlier, we set our kids up to fail – “Make sure you use a condom; it’s important to practice ’safe’ sex.”

So, with the above qualifications, I think we essentially agree.
And I really do think that ‘prevention is better than cure’.

I don’t believe that children from non-religious backgrounds have a monopoly on sex too young, or on any of the other ills I suggested. It may be a sign of moral weakness, but so far as I can recall the church doesn’t expect that everyone will be righteous at all times – Jesus Christ died for our sins, right? At least some of the churches I’m familiar with have quite clear expectations around repentance, and clearly that means that people frequently have things to repent.

I suspect those who are young are prone to make more mistakes than those older, and therefore probably have more to repent.

In other words, whilst I can agree with you that it would be nice if children didn’t engage in sexual activity, it would seem a little naive to expect that for everyone, and at all times, that they would in fact abstain. A significant proportion of kids, from good homes and not so good homes, will go and have sex anyway. That is what kids do. If your world view is that “it just shouldn’t happen” then I’m afraid you will often be disappointed. If your world view accepts that it sometimes will happen, and that we need to be there to pick up the pieces sometimes, then you are probably being more realistic.

And the bloody pencils are tax-deductible you know!!

Interesting, what Church do you go to? I might pay it a visit.

Also, care to tell us whether this Church lives by the earlier pieces of scripture I posted, rather than your selective choice of only addressing the passage in 1 Timothy?

“Your surname isn’t the opposite of ‘Day’, by any chance?”

Kris K, very shrewd to put that in code so others dont guess the name. You should apply for a job at the GCSB.

I’m sure if Johnboy had been Mr OppositeOfDay he would have mentioned any number of things that only he and I would have known from working together for over five years – such as the first name of the office lady – “No, I’m not him, but I used to work in a place where the office lady was named ‘Julie’. But more subtle, obviously.

No Kris but I do feel that he and I could get on well together and be very good friends if we ever met.

He’d be in his late 70s by now.
He used to get the DTs something terrible at work – pretty sure he was an alcoholic. His hands shook so much that if he came into the design office and used a pencil he would continually break the lead because he had to press so hard to write clearly. I used to feel sorry for him. Often wonder what happened to him; whether he’s still alive – whether he found the Lord or not.

I like to think I had a good Christian testimony at work, and that I may have influenced him in this regard. Just like I might influence you and others here. I guess I’ll only find out how effective I was/am when I reach eternity.

Kris K, very shrewd to put that in code so others dont guess the name. You should apply for a job at the GCSB.

Which one of your strange personality traits led Mr Oppositetoday to suspect that you were not “one of the boys” so to speak Kris?

As far as I can gather it was for no other reason than that I was a Christian.
I was pretty mild in my expressions of my faith at work, but most people knew I was a Christian. We’re going backa few years, though. I guess I’m more forthright here in DPF land. But then your at work to work – whereas we’re here to share our views and opinions.

So you’re not ‘Mr Oppositetoday’, Johnboy?

This was a joke a couple of months ago between Johnboy and myself. Johnboy kept pushing the boundaries and yet not getting pinged by DPF. I labelled him the ‘Demerit Virgin’ because he had no demerits to date. Shortly after this he pushed a little too hard and DPF ‘awarded’ him with 50 demerits. I then renamed him ‘Demerit Virgin No More’. I guess you had to be there.

Dragging up the dirt is very unchristian.
Perhaps Johnboy is getting the better of you.

More Bible study from you is required!!

As far as I know Kris I have been one of the bestest little boys in nice Mr. Farrars class since my naughty little tantrum and am looking forward to a very good report from him, Dean Tolley and Headmaster Key when the year ends and national standards are introduced.

We can compare notes and see who gets the gold star.

Do you ever get pissed and loosen up a bit or do you wear your hair shirt 24/7 and flagellate yourself every day and twice on sundays?

Your surname isn’t the opposite of ‘Day’, by any chance?
I had a boss, once, that accused me of not “getting pissed and being one of the boys” enough, even though he knew I was a Christian.
It would be quite humourous if you’re one and the same person.
You are a John and live in Wellington, afterall.

So many people that are screwed in the head have been screwed everywhere else first!!

You put that so much better than I did, Shunda.
But be careful, PaulL may accuse you of using “loaded language” – it’s important to ‘soften the blow’.

Do you ever get pissed and loosen up a bit or do you wear your hair shirt 24/7 and flagellate yourself every day and twice on sundays?

Speaking of ‘dividends’ – have you accrued any more demerits courtesy of DPF; especially since your last impressive effort.

Quite apt given the title of this topic, and that when you ‘popped your cherry’ it was one hell of a bang.
Demerit virgin no more – heh.

But you have to admit Kris that the first virgin birth has been a great little earner for many over a fairly long period of time.

I’ve certainly benefitted.
As a direct result of the ONLY virgin birth, I have had my eternal salvation ‘purchased’ by the blood of Christ.
So yes, in that sense it’s been a great little ‘earner’, and has paid out some pretty impressive ‘dividends’, as many here will attest.

(But I do understand what you mean – there have been, and are, many ripoffs in the name of religion/Christianity)