one thing they all have in common..is ‘socialised healthcare’..as you call it..

tho’..i am not sure wtf that has to do with the cannabis prohibition laws..

..eh..?

..what ‘health consequences’….?

..from cannabis..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

gee james..!..

better hope you never get ’sick’-er..”

I will lower myself to respond to this fuckwit bludger just once…

I make the effort to pay for private health cover….alongside whats stolen to support self inflicted scumbags like you Phil…and I do that from a wage below the average.Even if I do get sick that still puts no obligation on anyone else to pay for my healthcare….I don’t do slavery….unlike some.

The fact is no one would miss out on needed care if we simply allowed people to retain and spend their own money on their own health care…which is the practicle and the MORAL thing to do.As to helping those less fortunate theers a thing called charity Phil…something Kiwis are pretty good at but are finding harder to engage in as your bloated State keeps robbing them of the descretionary income that they could give to help and instead spends it on a one size fits no-one die while you wait system.

You socialists claim healthcare is a right Phil…..did you know not one socialized healthcare system anywhere has ever delivered on this right?

legalise and tax the less harmful drugs – cannabis, ecstasy, lsd (all of which are much safer than alcohol or tobacco). save vast amounts on legal costs, and gain a new stream of tax revenue. spend the savings/profits on rehab, anti-drug advertising campaigns and policing of serious/violent crime.

How moral is you war on drugs?

Exactly.If people were no forced to pay for others they would be far less inclined to stick their noses into other peoples lives.I personally don’t care what consenting adults put in their bodies….but I resent having to pay for the consequences.

It could be argued that you’re paying far more tax now to maintain this ridiculous ban on cannabis than you would have to pay for any health-related consequences – and that’s before even considering the tax revenue from the newly taxed cannabis industry.

I prefer not to argue that point, because it’s a clear question of principle – it’s no one else’s business if an adult chooses to take drugs or not. Quibbling over the negligible difference in tax cost is of vastly less importance to me than individual liberty.

gee james..!..

better hope you never get ‘sick’-er..

eh..?

prefer to just step over widows and orphans in gutters..do you..?..

the milk of human kindness pours from you in a torrent..?

dogs ‘like’ you..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

The controls are already there in the form of individual rights.In a Libertarian society the State exists souly to protect these rights.Remember that “Society” doesn’t exist….its a non existent abstraction compiled by the actual living individuals who compose it.Whats good for the individual is by default good for society…..but it is not true in reverse as “societys” good can be warped into whatever form politicians etc may try to enact and tryanny follows.

Ryan: “One problem with socialised medicine combined with the predominant attitude towards property is that it opens the door for every taxpayer to have a legitimate say in how you treat yourself.”

Exactly.If people were no forced to pay for others they would be far less inclined to stick their noses into other peoples lives.I personally don’t care what consenting adults put in their bodies….but I resent having to pay for the consequences.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007#

However, if following libertarian dictates (given that libertarians don’t just want drug reform in a vacuum of other political changes), the Government would also not be able to provide such a service, right? So in a libertarian system there wouldn’t be that recourse. So maybe fewer people would allow themselves to get into situations where they’re hooked on drugs (over time), as to do so would be a far riskier proposition. Nonetheless, this all buys into your unsubstantiated proposition that the strongest libertarian supporters will be needing to attend rehab clinics, so it’s a moot point really, as we’re considering an irrelevant hypothetical situation which you are framing to suit your purposes.

Oh, so once they were hooked on these drugs that they are “free to put into their body” and decide that they want to come off (having lost everything they own feeding their drug habit) they would still remain ’staunch’ to their libertarian values and die in the streets would they?

I expect most libertarians imagine that addiction is something that happens to other people.

But then, the state isn’t the only agency possible of providing assistance to those in need.

Except health cost are but one of the societal costs of drugs. We also have P users running amok – robbing people’s houses, attacking with swords, taking hostages in shops etc. The justice system is a very course sieve for this behaviour and in any event it only punishes and incarcerates the offender. It in no way ameliorates the suffering and damage to everyone else.

So, I would amend your statement as follows:

If medicine is privatised, if any drug-facilitated crime gets the death penalty and if no welfare whatsoever is paid to drug users, then drugs should not be taxed any differently to any other good.

I was thinking specifically of cannabis, which doesn’t have those problems.

Crystal meth does seem to be to be a different question.

Oh, so once they were hooked on these drugs that they are “free to put into their body” and decide that they want to come off (having lost everything they own feeding their drug habit) they would still remain ‘staunch’ to their libertarian values and die in the streets would they?

It’s not about normalising drug taking. It’s about normalising adults making their own decisions without the state trying to be their mum.

With regard to the “libertarians” you mention, if they went and bleated to the government for taxpayer handouts they would not be libertarians either in thought or in action. As for the suggestion that the strongest libertarian supporters will need to attend rehab clinics, well, I doubt you have any idea as to their drug habits, so your conclusion appears relatively specious. (I apologise in advance if you do have factual data on libertarian supporters drug habits showing that the strongest supporters will be likely to require rehab at some stage, and as such are making your conclusion based on evidence.)

..have the lowest drug use by their young people..

..before you ‘get it’..?

..and stop just parroting the same lies/misinformation that have fed the prohibitionist-industry..forever..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

If medicine is privatised, drugs should not be taxed any differently to any other good.

Except health cost are but one of the societal costs of drugs. We also have P users running amok – robbing people’s houses, attacking with swords, taking hostages in shops etc. The justice system is a very course sieve for this behaviour and in any event it only punishes and incarcerates the offender. It in no way ameliorates the suffering and damage to everyone else.

So, I would amend your statement as follows:

If medicine is privatised, if any drug-facilitated crime gets the death penalty and if no welfare whatsoever is paid to drug users, then drugs should not be taxed any differently to any other good.

What a lot of emotional rubbish.

Those who want to legalise drugs are the ones who have an eye on our kids, they are the ones who want to normalise drug taking.

I love the libertarian bullshit line about ‘what you put in your body”, those who are its strongest supporters would soon go bleating to the government for tax payer hand outs when they want to attend rehab clinics.

full legalisation/taxation is on the californian ballot at the end of the year..(and expected to pass..)..

.and many other american states are planning similar moves..

(the drip-drip is about to become a wave of/for change…)

soon..we will have some of the most reactionary drug laws in the world..(way to go..!..eh..?..

really..big bruv..it is only reactionary old farts like you..and the ‘drug-industry’/gangs..

..and the other silly old farts who inhabit talkback..and young farts like power…

..who still favor the madness of full prohibition..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

What you put in your body is your business….no one elses.That the state makes it your business via taxation to pay for healthcare is a reason to end that system….not ban drugs.

If anybody is a poster boy for the dangers of long term drug abuse it is you, as with so many of the causes you champion you actually do more damage than good.

The law is not going to change, there is no government stupid enough to legalise drugs as they know it is a guaranteed vote loser.

From a personal point of view, I enjoy the fact that this pisses you off.