Student Loans access
The Herald reports:
Tertiary students who fail more than half their courses may lose their student loans as the Government moves to crack down on abuse.
Only 50 per cent of domestic students who started studying for bachelor’s degrees in New Zealand in 2004 finished their degrees within five years – suggesting that up to half of the country’s 145,000 bachelor’s students will fail or drop out.
Student allowances are chopped if students failed more than half of their courses in the previous year, but there is no requirement to pass courses to keep getting student loans.
I can see this changing very soon. However I think one will want some ability to access loans if say a student drops out, enters the workforce, but a few years later wants to return to finish their degree.
Mr Joyce pointed to research showing 41.5 per cent of New Zealand’s tertiary education budget went into student loans and allowances, compared with an OECD average of only 17.6 per cent.
He told the Weekend Herald he wanted to shift funding to pay for more tuition places. “I’d like to see more money going into actually training EFTSs (equivalent fulltime students) and I’m looking around for opportunities to deliver that in 2011,” he said.
The budget will be interesting.
February 27th, 2010 at 8:35 am
The OECD statistic quoted by Joyce, who, by the way, I think is a really impressive political performer, actually has a simple reason: we are one of the poorest nations in the OECD. So I wonder what strategy he will come up with, hopefully not excessively punitive.
There is a measure of saving students from themselves in demanding a certain level of performance, and I think that’s a good thing. I had that in my uni days to retain my place in my hostel – compared to my family home, that was 5 star luxury, I assure you!
And universities, at least Auckland, anyway, already self regulate in demanding, from memory, that a full time student pass half a full time course to be able to re-enrol.
And I wonder why so many of us drop out and return later to complete, as I did?
February 27th, 2010 at 8:55 am
how did our university students of say 30 years ago fund their courses?
oh, and expect Labour to bring in “23 yo Sam Smith from Levin” who dropped out of school at 15 and now wants to enter the tertiary/university environment to better himself but may take longer to achieve a pass due than others due to lack of success in the education process.
February 27th, 2010 at 8:58 am
A key point for me is, I went to Uni so as basically at the end of my study, I could earn more money in the job arena. Of which I feel Uni has enabled me to do. So therefore upon finishing Uni, as soon as I started work, I took a loan out from the bank and paid off my student loan, then worked hard out to pay the bank back….
Going to Uni was investing in my future, of which I have had a good return on…..
In a nutshell, the Student Loan scheme is a HAVE for many, just like Social Welfare in this country….. I think this proposal is great, weed out the bummer rounders…..
February 27th, 2010 at 9:18 am
Jaba, I can answer your question:
My AU ID No begins 070…that’s the year of first entry.
Funding, even for someone from a relatively poor background, was quite straightforward. You got HSC by staying the course for what is now form 7, formerly form 6A, so 90% of your fees, books, and, if one was lucky enough to get into a Halls of Residence, as I did, your board.
So you worked during the holidays (I was the leader of a hay gang) and during the term, a few hours per week ( I worked in our first flour and sugar consumer packaging company, starting rate $1 ph, good money!) for spendies.
QED
February 27th, 2010 at 9:38 am
Luc – 1970, that’s forty years ago. The question was 30 years
The restriction that Joyce is proposing is not on the ability to study at tertiary level, just a requirement to pass half your courses to continue to get state funding. Just like the requirement of having to really look for jobs to get unemployment benefits exists. Otherwise taxpayers can end up feeding a bottomless pit of perverse incentives.
February 27th, 2010 at 9:40 am
This is an excellent initiative. It supports those who are prepared to make a genuine effort to help themselves, and removes the bludgers and failures from the public tit.
Steve Joyce is proving to be a highly capable Minister: one of the best either party has produced for a long, long time.
February 27th, 2010 at 9:51 am
In my day -1967 to 69, if you failed to pass all papers with an average of fifty percent or better, you did not get back for year two. If you failed to pass years one and two with an average of 60% or better, you did not get back for year three.
There were 210 students enrolled in year one and there were 47 who graduated in year three.
My memory is that our parents paid most of the fees with limited gummint support but I could be wrong.
February 27th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Whafe,
Did I read that correctly. You borrowed and paid interest to repay an interest free loan?
You must be a graduate of Green Party economics studies.
But, seriously, every week I see another example of why that interest free student loans bribe was one of the most stupid decisions ever made by a parliamentarian in our country. It is totally illogical.
February 27th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Thanks for the maths correction, Michael.
But isn’t Joyce proposing what universities already do, anyway?
February 27th, 2010 at 10:04 am
The whole students loans scenario is unworkable and just another stupid socialist idea. It needs to stop and the slimy politicians supporting this fraud need to stop stealing money from NZ workers to try and maintain it. Privatise education fully. There is no good reason for government to be in the education business. The outocme is schools and universities dumbed down and made unproductive by means of the control and influence of socialist zealots. It has to stop.
February 27th, 2010 at 10:06 am
Luc’s answer was great .. many students from the 60′s-70′s took such jobs and ended up the better for it .. I love the fact the the Govt (of any persuasion) will help those who want to help themselves (and therefore the country) but those who sweat blood to quicken the process should be commended .. pity more don’t do it instead of expecting payouts.
I see an similar thing with sportspeople .. Ferguson and the other canoeists used to slum it when competing overseas but the hardship made them so much more determined and ultimately successful.
February 27th, 2010 at 10:21 am
There is no down side to this philosophy, remember if a student wants to drop out of a course they still can right until half way though, the university keeps the money and thats the fee cap problem solved as any student likely t fail will drop out sooner for other things, setting a standard of say a gpa of 3.3 forces students to at least get C- – C grades and no one can say it is bad to punish failers at university, if you are at university you have proven you should be able to do averagely at the very least but they should bring back the bonded merit system as a countermeasure to students have a short term aspiration again
February 27th, 2010 at 10:33 am
I got my degree back before people had to borrow and pay for them (1984-1988).
I failed 5 of the courses in my first year. I did complete my BSc (over 5 years). I learnt from that failure I got and took a second chance. Just because someone fails once doesn’t mean they are a failure. Just because someone doesn’t complete the degree they start doesn’t mean that that study has benefited them. People do degrees part time too, for them it takes longer than 5 years to get a bachelor degree.
Yes failing meant I go funding the next year. However I got government subsidised jobs each Christmas where (while living at home with my parents in the holidays) I saved roughly the same as the student allowance. It cost and $500 a year or so extra for fees but not hard to pay.
Personally I prefer society to invest and trust that students learning will benefit NZ society in the future.
February 27th, 2010 at 10:36 am
I’ll add many people who start a Bsc are tempted to take the easier BCom courses instead.
February 27th, 2010 at 11:32 am
I think it is a good idea but as you say there needs to be some way to access it in the future. With student allowance I think if you fail your course you are not able to claim it for the next year but if you go back to work and support yourself for a year then you can claim it again.
February 27th, 2010 at 11:52 am
Massey rountienly punts people who are here just to be here. I also know a couple of people who lost their student loan entitlement and had to come back with borrowed money or work to make money for the papers and they’re working their asses off to rentitle themselves.
Hey look having consequences works.
Personally I think the wors thing you can do with a kid is let then go from home, high school and total regulation to being alone with other kids, no regulation and lots of money being thrown at them. Why we should be suprised that they get drunk, hump all night and sleep all day isn’t obvious to me. Its like a sink or swim policy with free lead weights added for the fun of it.
February 27th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Tauhei Notts (584) Says:
February 27th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Whafe,
Did I read that correctly. You borrowed and paid interest to repay an interest free loan?
You must be a graduate of Green Party economics studies.
TN – I can assure you I am not a graduate of the Green Party, nor will I ever be…
This was many years ago TN, there was no interest free loans. NOR SHOULD THERE BE…. Back then the way the interest was calculated was cheaper to get a loan from the bank and pay it off… Then pay the bank loan off….
Tertiary education is not a god given right, like a good many NZ’ers think….
The fact that it is now interest free, compounds the fraud so to speak of it!
February 27th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Inky – Just because someone fails once doesn’t mean they are a failure.
I disagree, if you are at Uni, dont fail full stop. Some lefties will think I am a prick, so be it, dont fail…. Of course there are circumstances where some will fail, thats different to those that fuck around…
February 27th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
When I went to Lincoln College in the mid 80s there were no loans to be had from Government but fees were low. I thought this was not a bad scheme. I had to fund my own pissing up through shearing during the summer. Labour giving students access to free credit was a shallow vote buying tactic which bordered on being criminally negligent.
February 27th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
I did not know people could start drawing interest free loans and there was NO accountability to pass subjects. In the bad old days students needed to pass a Minimum of twp “units” to keep full time study assistance. And if they failed that they needed to study without assistance the following year to get it back. I cannot wait for the Labour Party to oppose this.
February 27th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Every conclusion you ever wanted to make about the effects of Labour’s interest free policy can be informed here;
Chapter Three: Student Loan Scheme – State of Play
February 27th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
If it wasn’t for the interest free aspect, I probably wouldn’t have gone back to study. Having said that, I’m not getting any write offs as such, the total amount borrowed will have to be repaid. I think the main issue should be what you can get funding for:
this
that
bollox
what the?
Got to be kidding
seriously?
February 27th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
This is a sensible policy and politically makes sense as well – particularly since removing interest free loans would take more balls come the next election.
Students are notoriously self interested and can easily be convinced to vote Labour for the free-bees, without caring that the quality of their degrees is dropping since the tertiary education funding is being skewed towards the students and not the institutions who need funding to employ top professors and conduct world leading research.
1) Cut funding to bum students.
2) Put savings into improving NZ Uni’s research. Reduces brain drain as well, keeping our talent here, developing new tech that can be capitalised on.
3) Increased quality of NZ unis will attract more foreign students who pay $ into our economy.
So yeah, this has been a long time coming!
February 27th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
To Whafe and company, who paid interest on their student loans and believe that should still be the case: do bear in mind that a full time course – in something normal like science, arts, commerce, or law – now costs some $5000 a year in fees alone. Bursary payments for good performance at high school are $300 a year tops, and are only paid while you are under age 20. So that’s three years’ contribution at most (turns out being born in March, April or May has financial benefits!)
That’s a bit more expensive than your day, huh?
February 28th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
To be honest I thought this was the policy, but as it clearly is not definitely indorce it. Dont see why the tax payer should pay for people to fail!
March 1st, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Students are traditional socialists so National does itself no favours supporting them.
The future trend for students is to be very certain and accurate about degrees they study to capitalise.
I also see this in narrowing opportunitiies in multiple degrees which is highly needed in todays competitive environment.
Students are simply being persecuted because of long term Winz losers.
and of course the parliamentary gravy train.
My solution for pollies is a ten year tenure in treasury seats then haere ra.
New blood and new ideas instead of a half dozen lifers running the Beehive.