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	<title>Comments on: The new Section 92A</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: JiveKitty</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-666021</link>
		<dc:creator>JiveKitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-666021</guid>
		<description>What happens to households/flats with multiple computers and multiple users but the internet only in an individual&#039;s name?
Why are ISPs involved in this at all?

A regressive law, and all because an industry refuses to evolve and ignores the power its customers do have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happens to households/flats with multiple computers and multiple users but the internet only in an individual&#8217;s name?<br />
Why are ISPs involved in this at all?</p>
<p>A regressive law, and all because an industry refuses to evolve and ignores the power its customers do have.</p>
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		<title>By: GT</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-666001</link>
		<dc:creator>GT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-666001</guid>
		<description>For those promoting PeerGuardian, it appears that it is no longer being actively developed, and indeed Phoenix Labs are recommending moving to PeerBlock - which is based on PeerGuardian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those promoting PeerGuardian, it appears that it is no longer being actively developed, and indeed Phoenix Labs are recommending moving to PeerBlock &#8211; which is based on PeerGuardian.</p>
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		<title>By: Michaels</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665930</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665930</guid>
		<description>Stupid stupid law.
Questions:
1. What will happen if I log onto someone&#039;s unsecure wireless and download something? 
2. What will happen if I take my own coffee to Starbucks (can&#039;t drink theirs) and use their wireless?
3. Will gas stations start phoning the police with cars that aren&#039;t registered?
4. Will bottle shop owners phone the police if they believe someone has had to much to drink?
5. Why not just a heavy fucking fine and the payment can go directly to the copyright owner?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stupid stupid law.<br />
Questions:<br />
1. What will happen if I log onto someone&#8217;s unsecure wireless and download something?<br />
2. What will happen if I take my own coffee to Starbucks (can&#8217;t drink theirs) and use their wireless?<br />
3. Will gas stations start phoning the police with cars that aren&#8217;t registered?<br />
4. Will bottle shop owners phone the police if they believe someone has had to much to drink?<br />
5. Why not just a heavy fucking fine and the payment can go directly to the copyright owner?</p>
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		<title>By: longbow</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665926</link>
		<dc:creator>longbow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665926</guid>
		<description>p2p guardian + encrypted protocols zzz

and yes, ISP should have nothing to do with it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p2p guardian + encrypted protocols zzz</p>
<p>and yes, ISP should have nothing to do with it</p>
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		<title>By: Banana Llama</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665907</link>
		<dc:creator>Banana Llama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665907</guid>
		<description>http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/

So hard how do i internet¿</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/" rel="nofollow">http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/</a></p>
<p>So hard how do i internet¿</p>
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		<title>By: infused</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665905</link>
		<dc:creator>infused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665905</guid>
		<description>More bulllshit. The world is laughing at us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More bulllshit. The world is laughing at us.</p>
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		<title>By: GT</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665842</link>
		<dc:creator>GT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665842</guid>
		<description>Honestly, this is now small fry. The elephant in the room is the ACTA agreement that is being negotiated in private. Indeed, all we seem to hear about ACTA these days is from the leaks that keep coming out on WikiLeaks. S92 is only being implemented so that we come in line to be able fulfill our roles under ACTA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/acta.html

DPF - would be good to see more coverage of ACTA leading up to the Wellington meeting in April. More people need to know about what the US are trying to impose globally.

[DPF: Yes I will devote more space to ACTA]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, this is now small fry. The elephant in the room is the ACTA agreement that is being negotiated in private. Indeed, all we seem to hear about ACTA these days is from the leaks that keep coming out on WikiLeaks. S92 is only being implemented so that we come in line to be able fulfill our roles under ACTA.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement</a><br />
<a href="http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/acta.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/acta.html</a></p>
<p>DPF &#8211; would be good to see more coverage of ACTA leading up to the Wellington meeting in April. More people need to know about what the US are trying to impose globally.</p>
<p>[DPF: Yes I will devote more space to ACTA]</p>
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		<title>By: JiveKitty</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665833</link>
		<dc:creator>JiveKitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665833</guid>
		<description>ISPs should have nothing to do with it.

Some quotes from a lecture given by Bronwyn Howell of the New Zealand Institute for the Study of Competition and Regulation:

&quot;Whilst the internet may facilitate infringement, ISPs are limited in their ability to monitor and enforce as they are not party to the copyright agreement.&quot;

&quot;Thus we conclude that the logical electronic intermediaries to facilitate the low-cost monitoring and enforcement of digital works subject to copyright are not ISPs but distributors.

Moreover, the simplicity and alignment of incentives of the Walled Garden model confirms that in principle, the traditional copyright law principles are robust to cope with changes in technology.&quot;

Further information here: http://www.iscr.org.nz/n536,53.html. (Note that I am not affiliated with this group in any way.)

@RBNZ: re: encryption. I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ISPs should have nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>Some quotes from a lecture given by Bronwyn Howell of the New Zealand Institute for the Study of Competition and Regulation:</p>
<p>&#8220;Whilst the internet may facilitate infringement, ISPs are limited in their ability to monitor and enforce as they are not party to the copyright agreement.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Thus we conclude that the logical electronic intermediaries to facilitate the low-cost monitoring and enforcement of digital works subject to copyright are not ISPs but distributors.</p>
<p>Moreover, the simplicity and alignment of incentives of the Walled Garden model confirms that in principle, the traditional copyright law principles are robust to cope with changes in technology.&#8221;</p>
<p>Further information here: <a href="http://www.iscr.org.nz/n536,53.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.iscr.org.nz/n536,53.html</a>. (Note that I am not affiliated with this group in any way.)</p>
<p>@RBNZ: re: encryption. I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: diogratia</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665828</link>
		<dc:creator>diogratia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665828</guid>
		<description>&quot;The new bill also allows accused for copyright infringers who feel they have been unjustly accused to apply to have their case heard by a Copyright Tribunal at no cost.&quot;

This is still guilty until proven innocent, more in keeping with the precepts of Napoleonic law than English common law.  Looking at 122L through 122N we find that you don&#039;t have the right to legal representation and you can be in jeopardy for a fine up to $15,000, and a finding of the tribunal can be enforced as if by a District Court.   There is also no statement in support of Part 2 27 (2) of the Bill of Rights Act (&quot; Every person whose rights, obligations, or interests protected or recognised by law have been affected by a determination of any tribunal or other public authority has the right to apply, in accordance with law, for judicial review of that determination.&quot;).  Further while it makes for tidier and perhaps speedier proceedings without the right to appeal or the right to counsel how can this be justice?  There is no defined process for establishing fact other than opinion of the tribunal members and to a lesser degree the ISP and or the accusing copyright owners.  It&#039;s &#039;legal&#039; theater allowing an infringement action to proceed outside the proper venue - a District Court - with an easier time of it passing the costs of prosecution to the accused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The new bill also allows accused for copyright infringers who feel they have been unjustly accused to apply to have their case heard by a Copyright Tribunal at no cost.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is still guilty until proven innocent, more in keeping with the precepts of Napoleonic law than English common law.  Looking at 122L through 122N we find that you don&#8217;t have the right to legal representation and you can be in jeopardy for a fine up to $15,000, and a finding of the tribunal can be enforced as if by a District Court.   There is also no statement in support of Part 2 27 (2) of the Bill of Rights Act (&#8221; Every person whose rights, obligations, or interests protected or recognised by law have been affected by a determination of any tribunal or other public authority has the right to apply, in accordance with law, for judicial review of that determination.&#8221;).  Further while it makes for tidier and perhaps speedier proceedings without the right to appeal or the right to counsel how can this be justice?  There is no defined process for establishing fact other than opinion of the tribunal members and to a lesser degree the ISP and or the accusing copyright owners.  It&#8217;s &#8216;legal&#8217; theater allowing an infringement action to proceed outside the proper venue &#8211; a District Court &#8211; with an easier time of it passing the costs of prosecution to the accused.</p>
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		<title>By: RBNZ</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665771</link>
		<dc:creator>RBNZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665771</guid>
		<description>End result will be that most people will get into end to end encryption. If you&#039;re savvy enough to download a torrent you&#039;re smart enough to get around these rules.

Old folks and internet newbies will be in trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>End result will be that most people will get into end to end encryption. If you&#8217;re savvy enough to download a torrent you&#8217;re smart enough to get around these rules.</p>
<p>Old folks and internet newbies will be in trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Chicken Little</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665768</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicken Little</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665768</guid>
		<description>So let me get this straight - We, the consumers, are going to pay the tab through ISPs increasing costs, for copyright holders to uphold their copyright?

What a load of crap. If they want to uphold their copyright they should be responsible for ALL costs. They need to pay the ISPs whatever it costs to set up these new systems.

As Davidp points out above - the opportunities for mischief are great and with such a unfair ( to consumers ) system in place much mischief should be made. Grind it into the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So let me get this straight &#8211; We, the consumers, are going to pay the tab through ISPs increasing costs, for copyright holders to uphold their copyright?</p>
<p>What a load of crap. If they want to uphold their copyright they should be responsible for ALL costs. They need to pay the ISPs whatever it costs to set up these new systems.</p>
<p>As Davidp points out above &#8211; the opportunities for mischief are great and with such a unfair ( to consumers ) system in place much mischief should be made. Grind it into the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Tassman</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665765</link>
		<dc:creator>Tassman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665765</guid>
		<description>I know, it&#039;s called File Sharing for the government and its masters but a copyright infringement for anyone else.  That way, they can withdraw the profit and claim a loss at the BNZ for another hand out.  And when caught, it&#039;s all public shows resignation until later...  Whada #@&amp;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know, it&#8217;s called File Sharing for the government and its masters but a copyright infringement for anyone else.  That way, they can withdraw the profit and claim a loss at the BNZ for another hand out.  And when caught, it&#8217;s all public shows resignation until later&#8230;  Whada #@&amp;!</p>
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		<title>By: davidp</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665761</link>
		<dc:creator>davidp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665761</guid>
		<description>So I&#039;ve read the bill and while people&#039;s identities are protected, it requires ISPs to handle the notice-issuing process. We can forget about cheaper broadband for a long while to come, because managing this task is going to be expensive for ISPs. 

I didn&#039;t see any provision for awarding costs to people falsely accused. Either for them to write challenge notices, or to defend themselves in front of a tribunal. That is bad. Computer forensics investigations are expensive.

But you could have a bit of fun with this. Find out the IP addresses of organisations you don&#039;t like: IRD, Green Party, Dianetics, The Standard, etc. They&#039;re all publicly available. Then complain to their ISP. There is a good chance that the infringement notice will be missed by whoever receives them. Sometimes the person responsible will have left the organisation and the organisation won&#039;t have updated its contact details. Then sit back and enjoy watching them run around defending themselves against your allegations, or watch them fall off the Internet. This is probably going to be the easiest way to denial of service a government department or corporation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I&#8217;ve read the bill and while people&#8217;s identities are protected, it requires ISPs to handle the notice-issuing process. We can forget about cheaper broadband for a long while to come, because managing this task is going to be expensive for ISPs. </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see any provision for awarding costs to people falsely accused. Either for them to write challenge notices, or to defend themselves in front of a tribunal. That is bad. Computer forensics investigations are expensive.</p>
<p>But you could have a bit of fun with this. Find out the IP addresses of organisations you don&#8217;t like: IRD, Green Party, Dianetics, The Standard, etc. They&#8217;re all publicly available. Then complain to their ISP. There is a good chance that the infringement notice will be missed by whoever receives them. Sometimes the person responsible will have left the organisation and the organisation won&#8217;t have updated its contact details. Then sit back and enjoy watching them run around defending themselves against your allegations, or watch them fall off the Internet. This is probably going to be the easiest way to denial of service a government department or corporation.</p>
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		<title>By: davidp</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665752</link>
		<dc:creator>davidp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665752</guid>
		<description>What will protect people from having their identities revealed when someone with an IP address claims to be a copyright holder and makes a complaint to an ISP?  Will this require a court order?

[DPF: The ISP does not reveal the name of the user. They will probably just be given a reference number]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What will protect people from having their identities revealed when someone with an IP address claims to be a copyright holder and makes a complaint to an ISP?  Will this require a court order?</p>
<p>[DPF: The ISP does not reveal the name of the user. They will probably just be given a reference number]</p>
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		<title>By: oob</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665748</link>
		<dc:creator>oob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665748</guid>
		<description>Seedbox located in a data centre of a liberal European country/corrupt Eastern-bloc country.
+
Access seedbox exclusively with HTTPS, SSH and SFTP.
+
LUKS or similar on-disk encryption of local storage.
=
Prove it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seedbox located in a data centre of a liberal European country/corrupt Eastern-bloc country.<br />
+<br />
Access seedbox exclusively with HTTPS, SSH and SFTP.<br />
+<br />
LUKS or similar on-disk encryption of local storage.<br />
=<br />
Prove it.</p>
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		<title>By: dime</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/the_new_section_92a.html#comment-665737</link>
		<dc:creator>dime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=40891#comment-665737</guid>
		<description>hmmmmmm its basically gonna nail people that use torrents?

if one were to use rapidshare, one should be ok? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmmmmm its basically gonna nail people that use torrents?</p>
<p>if one were to use rapidshare, one should be ok? <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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