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Hide protests over burden on Telecom
By MARTIN KAY – The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 20/03/2010
ACT leader Rodney Hide has attacked Government plans to make Telecom pay the lion’s share of a splurge on rural broadband – but says he does not intend resigning over the issue.
Mr Hide, who is also Regulatory Reform Minister, branded the plans a breach of National’s own regulations policy and a “sad indictment” on the Government.
He released a strongly-worded letter to Telecommunications Minister Steven Joyce that signals one of the biggest fallouts between ACT and National since the parties agreed to govern together.
“I’m very displeased and the reason I’m displeased is not only is it poor law-making, it also sends a signal to any investors into New Zealand that their investment isn’t safe, and therefore it makes it tougher to get the sort of infrastructure and the sort of investment we need to grow the economy,” he said.
He rejected suggestions his reaction would harm ACT’s relationship with National, saying both accepted there would be differences at times.
Mr Joyce said ACT’s opposition would not stop legislation, as the Maori Party, with many rural constituents, was in favour.
This week, Mr Joyce confirmed plans to force Telecom to bear most of the cost through changes to the Telecommunications Service Obligations, which effectively regulate the company.
Telecom will pay most of the $300 million to be raised through a new levy to increase broadband cover and speed, and from July will also pay the full cost of providing phone services, at a loss, to 58,000 rural customers.
Telecom warned the moves would wipe $168 million of its pre-tax profits over three years. Its share price fell 4 cents to a record low of $2.17 when the plans were announced on Tuesday.
Another National Fail as well. Telecom should shut down their system overnight and sell the parts for what they can get. This Govt. is no better than the last when it comes to stealing shareholders rights.
What the fuck goes on in their minds. Ahhh socialism of course.
Genuine question:
As you say you are a Christian, and that you believe civil disobedience is acceptable in some cases where lives are placed at risk, do you also support the destruction of, say, abortion clinics because they destroy the lives of children in the womb?
Was DPF in a bad mood that day? – I’ve heard people called a whole lot worse and not receive any demerits.
And Malcolm does seem to goad Red quite unnecesarily IMO, and so probably was being a m’baiter.
Now I know why we got kicked out – Chris Carter and his mates – theyre just trouble………………
From The Times (UK)
A senior US officer and former Nato commander sparked outrage in the Netherlands today by declaring that gay soldiers in the Dutch military were one of the reasons for the Srebrenica massacre, the worst act of mass murder in Europe committed since the second world war.
The Dutch government and military responded with anger and contempt after General John Sheehan, a retired marine corps officer who was Nato’s supreme commander at the time of the 1995 atrocity, told a US Senate hearing that gay soldiers in the military could result in events like Srebrenica.
In July 1995 Bosnian Serb forces overran the Bosnian Muslim enclave under the protection of Dutch UN peacekeepers and killed 8,000 Muslim males, making the event a traumatic national disgrace for the Dutch.
Following recent remarks from Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, that Europeans had gone soft, Sheehan argued that changes after the end of the cold war had reduced Europe’s appetite for combat.
“They declared a peace dividend and made a conscious effort to socialise their military – that includes the unionisation of their militaries, it includes open homosexuality. That led to a force that was ill-equipped to go to war,” he said.
“The case in point that I’m referring to is when the Dutch were required to defend Srebrenica against the Serbs. The battalion was under-strength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off, and executed them. That was the largest massacre in Europe since world war two.”
He added that the Dutch chief of staff had told him that having gay soldiers at Srebrenica had sapped morale and contributed to the disaster.
“When they cut off my nose and ears, I passed out,” 19-year-old Bibi Aisha of Afghanistan says with chilling candor.
[...]
That was the first time she met her husband. He came home from Pakistan to take her to Taliban court for dishonoring his family and bringing them shame.
The court ruled that her nose and ears must be cut off. An act carried out by her husband in the mountains of Oruzgan where they left her to die.
[...]
In 2001, the situation of Afghan women and Taliban brutality received plenty of attention. Now organizations like WAW say the international community is strangely silent on the issue.
Another example of the love and tolerance from the ‘religion of peace’.
And one must ask why the international community and the UN are so quite on this sort of (Muslim) thing, but continue to denigrade Israel for protecting her citizens, etc.
I missed redbaiters ban but if a bloke calls another bloke a wanker then, according to some stats I saw a few years ago, he would have a 85% percent chance of being correct??
just a thought.
“They declared a peace dividend and made a conscious effort to socialise their military – that includes the unionisation of their militaries, it includes open homosexuality. That led to a force that was ill-equipped to go to war,” he said.
[...]
He added that the Dutch chief of staff had told him that having gay soldiers at Srebrenica had sapped morale and contributed to the disaster.
Is there any question that permitting openly queer soldiers would, even by itself, reduce morale within the military?
It puts a whole different inflection on the phrase “backing up your mates” in a combat situation.
[Nice of Helen to take time out of her busy schedule at the UN to join us here at Kiwiblog - thanks Helen, appreciate it.]
Gandhi: Agreed, a good man. Except two things come to mind, 1) His non-violent pacifism had a place in terms of his situation (and granted, it will also suit other situations), but IMO not all situations will suit the Ghandi model. 2) It is fortunate for him that the British Empire was on the wane, and also that the occupiers of India weren’t more totalitarian and thus didn’t simply eliminate him from the picture. Three cheers for the British Empire then eh!
I realise you (and other likeminded peace folk) actually understand defence and security issues rather well (the irony here is, despite this greater understanding over normal people going about their daily lives, your weighing up of the situation still tends towards solutions that if anything threatens peace, seeing your energies are spent fighting democratic western institutions, whilst the “other side” gets a free ride and ponders why the west tolerates such treason, but are thankful for “your” unwitting(?) part in shoring up their resolve to carry on suppressing those around them.
The other irony is whilst “you” call for a curtailment of the western security apparatus, “you” folks are quite happily undertaking intelligence gathering of your own in terms of assessing/researching western military and intelligence systems and seeking means to sway public opinion in terms of their dismantling.
Granted, you ask a very valid question in whether I (or “we”) have confidence in the “accountability of your government, its integrity, and its actual knowledge of how the US uses the Waihopai resource”. This really should be the issue, not a panic call to dismantle such institutions or NZ’s defence infrastructure etc. I do agree accountability, to an extent (after all we’re talking about secret squirrel stuff, that if were totally transparent it would severely compromise this ability to capture intelligence), is very important, especially in a democracy.
You talk about Echelon’s commercial and diplomatic espionage – yes I have heard about that from the likes of Nicky Hager’s exposure, which no doubt is exactly where you’ve heard it from too. But in this case we are talking about one man’s perspective and his agenda to sway public opinion by presenting a non-partisan and usually unbalanced approach that is intended to suit his aims. Eg does he talk about the good of Echelon, that I described prior, in terms of keeping an eye on the rogue TNI elements? And howabout for keeing an eye on the illegal Fijian military regime? Of course not, for that would destroy his public disinformation campaign wouldn’t it. Ok, do I like the fact that Echelon allegedly is being used for commercial and diplomatic espionage? Well naturally I am weary but despite the fact that two wrongs don’t make a right, the others are doing the same as well, so I’d rather have the lesser of two evils especially if the other side is non-democratic. Ok you say but one is Airbus, an example of a democratic player, sure I am weary but then again Airbus have received massive govt subsidies that may have not been known about without Echelon. In fact let’s twist off a bit, if Echelon was running prior to 85 down under, maybe we would have had known more about the proposed Rainbow warrior bombing – that surely is a good thing.
As in for any potential bad effects that Echelon alledgedly contributes to, just like you naming Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield in another posting about Iraq, THAT is the crux of the issue. It’s not so much in having (or not having) Echelon or warfighting abilities, it’s keeping those democratically elected politicians accountable. For Echelon and the military as I have descibed can (and do) do a lot of good in this world because there are elements out there that do not have good intentions. Your enegies should be focused on greater accountabilities, not the dismantling of the western security apparatus, for as we have seen in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion, where there is a vacuum, bad triumph’s over good.
I do have a little bit (but not alot) of admiration for your pacifism, but excuse me if I and others (figuratively speaking) defend your rights to be idealistic pacifist’s (although it also seems you guys are actually biased against the west) with a gun.
For history has shown, that communities, that are weak, are simply overrun by the invaders and either killed or enslaved or assimilated. This is mankind’s history over thousands of years, to which you obviously understand (but choose to ignore). I agree mankind can and should be good, but there are some that have evil intentions and these are the people that really shape history (and those that try and stop them). Idealist’s such as yourselves are as equally important, but simply become lost in history as you are over run.
Finally it still appears that you and your peace groups sanction the death (or enslavement) of innocents, as long as the path of purity and idealism is being followed. I do have a problem with that, so yes I clearly do support western collective security. Whilst not perfect it is better than the real world alternatives out there.
Quardle ardle wardle doodle.
Squawk shuffle shuffle peck.
Here comes Paula.
Get a job Magpie.
When is CYFS coming to take your kid away.
Can’t let a druggie bring up a child.
Hon Rodney Hide, MP for Epsom
INVITES YOU
to his regular feedback forum
Monday 22 March, 6.00pm-7.30pm
Mecca Cafe
Cnr Nuffi eld St and Remuera Rd, Newmarket
The topic The MMP Referendum
The guest speaker Peter Shirtcliffe, retired Businessman and Lobby Co-leader,
Put MMP to the Vote.
FEEDBACK
Free Entry. Cash bar and coffee available. Everyone welcome
Peter Shirtcliffe CMG is a former chairman of Telecom New Zealand and has held many other leadership positions in New Zealand business. He was also the founding chairman of the Enterprise Education Foundation and later a trustee of the Enterprise New Zealand Trust. He was awarded a CMG in 1988 before receiving the New Zealand Commemoration Medal in 1990.
Peter was the founder of Coalition for a Better Government in 1993, working tirelessly to educate New Zealanders about the perils of MMP.
Background on Peter’s Speech The evening will start with the speeches at 6.30pm.Rodney will speak first for 10 minutes which will be followed by Peter Shirtcliffe. There will be plenty of time for questions and debate. The formal part of the evening will finish by 7.30pm.
Peter Shirtcliffe says the referendum process was muddled and designed more as a “tick-the-box” exercise by a government which for now was in love with MMP rather than a process to give New Zealanders the best electoral system.
“There is a real opportunity not only to throw MMP out but to deliver a Parliament of far fewer MPs than we have now. First past the post, preferential voting and the supplementary member systems can all run with 100 MPs. MMP cannot. “The government should be looking at reducing the size of the House of Representatives –– in other words, giving more with less.” Shirtcliffe suggested that people should be allowed to vote preferentially on the alternatives to MMP to ensure that there was a strongly favoured alternative attracting an absolute majority of support. Mr Shirtcliffe said turnouts at MMP elections had been considerably lower than in first-past-the-post elections, reflecting widespread public disdain for MMP.
Quardle ardle wardle doodle.
Squawk shuffle shuffle peck.
Here comes Paula.
Get a job Magpie.
When is CYFS coming to take your kid away.
Can’t let a druggie bring up a child.
Isn’t the 5th line a reason for demerits? That is getting at Phil through his child.
Presumably CYFS won’t remove his child from his care because they have no reason to.
Hey niggly, thanx for acknowledging the importance of accountability in a democracy. I get my info from a variety of sources, and commercial espionage through echelon has been reported on by the European Parliament.
Are you trying to say that cost plus contracts by the US govt for the defence dept don’t constitute a subsidy, or subsidy equivalent for Boeing? Are you saying that commercial espionage for the US is a legitimate interest of NZ?
You won’t hear me talk about dismantling so much as conversion.
The very same equipment now used for unaccountable and anti-democratic purposes COULD be used for genuine securityand social development. Arms control verification. Disaster relief. Coordination of humanitarian aid etc. It’s not the technology, it’s the political culture.
KrisK, Kris K, it’s not my particular issue but sure, I’d encourage anyone to act on their conscience and accept the consequences. I’d be happy if they were nonviolent and had a plan. but even if they aren’t and don’t it’s an improvement on apathetic folk who never go past having an opinion.
Johnboy, you really are just too, too kind. I don’t deserve all this attention from you and your elk.
Angus, you’re about the 903rd right whinger to link to this and attempt to put the blamre anywhere except where it truly belongs – on a backward and barbaric people.
What do you suggest we do? Invade Afghanistan?
Surely you’re not saying Muslims are “a backward and barbaric people”, LRO?
I’m making sense Malcolm, its just that you’re too fucken dumb to know it. Go away you boring piffling spiteful little wank.
[DPF: 20 demerits]
However, menace got to say this and got away with it.
# menace (210) Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
mattyroo
“Had I been a sadistic muslim fucker”
its fucking arse hole pieces of shit like you mate that are responsible for many problems you fucking arse hole, generalisations like this are shocking and make me wonder what problems they will cause for me in my later years and my childrens years when Islam becomes the number one religion in the world and muslim comunities become more than 50 percent of nations(western). How do you expect them to act when fucking peiece of shit mother fucker cocksucking arse holes like you make these bullshit generalizations.
if you think my reaction is xtreem, its not, i can almost bet you somebody else reads your shit and considers doing more than just typing.
P.S. did i say you are a fucking arse hole.
But hey if you are inviting hostility towards our nation and ethnicity as you have shown to other ethnic/religious groups then you are succeding, but it will be people like you that i will hold responsible if/when the shit hits the fan one day. For me you are equal to nazi skinheads.
Thanks for the research and the comparison. Redbaiter’s response hardly rates compared to what Menace said.
And it’s hard to think of anything much more offensive than what Menace said.
DPF must have had a hard night beforehand (or similar) is the only reason for this inconsistant dishing out of demerits.
Although, sometimes there is more latitude if the offence occurs either later in the thread or else in General Debate – another possibility.
Something to consider Pete: The Koran has decreed that wherever muslims walk or go automatically becomes Muslim property. It belongs to them, now and forever, and, if it is in ‘Infidel’ (that’s you and me old chap, along with anyone else who is not a Muslim) lands it is to be retrieved BY FORCE. Therefore the Muslims you saw are actually ‘staking their claim’ to your and my country.
If you also remember that there are currently in excess of 63,000 Muslim in New Zealand, all of whom are OBLIGED (yes, even the so-called ‘Moderates’) to retrieve that land because the Koran says to do so, there is a problem developing. compounded by the fact that in the West (which includes us) Muslims work as Fifth-columnists from inside Western society and cities (and use the law to their advantage while doing so). Unlike Europe, there are so far no areas in NZ which are Muslim enclaves, but this is more by accident than design, yet with their rising birth-rate (they are out-producing us in respect of children) this is becoming a possibility which could be potentially dangerous for our country. Liberals and lefties unfortunately only compound the problem.
Not a problem for little old New Zealand? It will never happen here? I wish, but sadly t’aint so. We sleep at the ‘wheel’ at our peril.
And we accuse and ostracise and create tension at our peril too. The best thing we can do is show how to live peacefully, democratically and with tolerance of others. The more conflict is talked up the more likely it is to become reality.
PG
I shall start rip you too if you keep that up.
Ignoring the threat from Muslims doesn’t make it go away.
that is Dhimmi thinking and attitudes which is just what they want.
Only plonkers ignore reality.
I don’t ignore the threat from extreme Muslims. Just as I don’t ignore the threat from wannabee crusaders.
If I see a real threat to New Zealand I’ll do what I can to stand up to it. I think I can see through self interested scaremongering well enough, especially when it comes across as whinging about the “wrong” religion.
Religious zealots can be amongst the most dangerous – they will support any means to try and force their own beliefs and wipe out anyone that they see as a threat. Some Muslims are just one example.
The zealots don’t want to hear anything beyond their own bigotry, and make fairytale threats if challenged. Rip away.
March 20th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
PG
I shall start rip you too if you keep that up.
I think RIP is the greatest tool on the interweb. Its the silicon age equivalent of sticking fingers in ears and yelling
” LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA”.
It’s the perfect playground tool for those who are yet to leave the playground.
Your idealism is to ensure there is world peace, by unilaterally dismantling the appartus of war.
You support direct action against the likes of Waihopia/Echelon because you see them as contributing to the US war machine.
You don’t counter my viewpoint that Waihopai/Echelon actually has good purposes, such as in laymans terms, keeping an eye on rougue Indonesian TNI military elements in West Papua, or the Fiji military regime, no doubt what the French are up to in the South Pacific etc. So you (and the Ploughshare activists, Keith Locke and Nicky Hager etc) would rather take the pure approach and see it gone, thus denying the ANZUS country’s the ability to monitor these developments and plan for action to stabalise these areas when the time is right. In the meantime a potential loss of means of gathering intelligence can see innocent civilian lives lost in these areas if these rogue military elements know they aren’t being monitored, as in what was and still is happenning in West Papua. But your viewpoint seems to suggest that it is an acceptable price to pay (in that innocent civilians, our pacific brothers and sisters, can/have/are being killed by these rogue elements) in order not to have such spy bases here or in Australia etc.
You protest in Australia about the US Navy presence in your home city of Cairns. You protest about US spy bases in Australia too. You wish for them to be gone.
Also you (and other protest groups), like the general public of NZ, support the East Timorese UN mandated intervention in 1999 by Australia, NZ and a number of other like minded countries, and ongoing Timor Leste independance. But you are prepared to put that all at risk, for your greater good, by wishing to deny the ANZUS country’s ability to monitor Indonesian intelligence and military communications.
Another thing, the US Navy/USMC, the subject of your protests, you would know (as well as the Hager’s and Locke’s, but you all choose to ignore) the fact that when OZ and NZ INTERFET forces secured East Timor, a US Navy air warfare cruiser was on station off Timor as a deterrent to shoot down any Indonesian air threat to the incoming INTERFET forces (imagine the loss of ANZAC soldiers lives if one of their transport ships were attacked?). The USMC had one of their amphibious assault carriers “on exercises” off Timor as a backup, just in case those rogue TNI and militia elements defied the new Indonesian Govt and took a more aggressive stance against the OZ and NZ forces and shot back.
(BTW there were also reports of an Indonesian submarine shadowing the INTERFET task force and slipped under a NZ Frigate on station there. Puts lies to the Clark Govt’s attitude that anti-submarine warfare upgrades to NZ’s militarty assets weren’t important).
So it seems, you (and the Lock’s and Hager’s etc) ARE NOT REALLY friends of East Timor after all, you wouldn’t care less if they continued to suffer because if you somehow succeeded in denying the US war machine a presence in this region and they weren’t there to deter the Indonesian TNI military from attacking OZ/NZ forces. But your eyes that’s ok, because you wish to reach your nirvana of NO military – US – OZ – NZ etc.
(As another aside have you ever stopped to think that without the US presence in this region, Australia and NZ would actually have to triple defence spending to buy further high tech warfighting (not peacekeeping) equipment, expand the Army etc, to counter this US power vacuum. That’s the unintended consequences. Do we really want to have to do that, at the expense of other funding needs)?
I can’t help feeling you are using your idealism to project another agenda, because the reality of your actions, and those Waihopia activists, won’t bring peace as claimed but simply the conditions to allow other evil intent to spread and cause immediate death and destruction. I can’t help feeling you’re just another marxist in disguise. I also wonder, in light of your alledged christianity, as whether you are simply a false prophet misleading his flock.
Finally, the military (of the US/NZ/Aust) are just well armed civil servants. They undertake all manner of good work, most of which don’t make news worthy headlines. They can be used for good or bad purposes (eg Iraq invasion), but the key here is the accountability of those that make the decisions to committ them to their taskings i.e. the politicians.
So Cheney and co invaded Iraq. Rather than protesting at the military/intelligence establishment, what are you doing to ensure accountability so that there can never be a repeat of such an action? That’s where your efforts ought to be focused.
Good on the American for calling a spade a spade, pity the Dutch one couldn’t in public.
Funny that you should say that , Mike, because he is advocating to keep “Don’t ask, don’t tell” which is anything but calling a spade a spade. The gay man fighting next to you is okay as long as he keeps quiet about it.
Blaming the Srebrenica masssacre on openly gay soldiers is right up there with Pat Robertson’s hurricane Katherina is God’s revenge for America’s evil ways.
But then again you and Kris might actually believe that too
Funny that you should say that , Mike, because he is advocating to keep “Don’t ask, don’t tell” which is anything but calling a spade a spade. The gay man fighting next to you is okay as long as he keeps quiet about it.
At least when they were still ‘in the closet’ they didn’t push their lifestyle in everyone’s face.
Now that it’s ‘legal’ they think they have rights or something, and force feed us with their hedonistic and perverted practices.
And we wonder why society has gone off the rails when we normalise such things that not that long ago were regarded as a mental illness and a perversion of the worst kind.
But why should we be surprised when we have cast off the foundational values which our society was based upon?
Now we call evil good, and good evil.
And make no bones; homosexuality is evil – an abomination of the worst kind!
March 20th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Late night, DPF?
March 20th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Shit I miss Redbaiter. Twenty demerits for THAT!
March 20th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Indeed, bring back the Red man.
Hide protests over burden on Telecom
By MARTIN KAY – The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 20/03/2010
ACT leader Rodney Hide has attacked Government plans to make Telecom pay the lion’s share of a splurge on rural broadband – but says he does not intend resigning over the issue.
Mr Hide, who is also Regulatory Reform Minister, branded the plans a breach of National’s own regulations policy and a “sad indictment” on the Government.
He released a strongly-worded letter to Telecommunications Minister Steven Joyce that signals one of the biggest fallouts between ACT and National since the parties agreed to govern together.
“I’m very displeased and the reason I’m displeased is not only is it poor law-making, it also sends a signal to any investors into New Zealand that their investment isn’t safe, and therefore it makes it tougher to get the sort of infrastructure and the sort of investment we need to grow the economy,” he said.
He rejected suggestions his reaction would harm ACT’s relationship with National, saying both accepted there would be differences at times.
Mr Joyce said ACT’s opposition would not stop legislation, as the Maori Party, with many rural constituents, was in favour.
This week, Mr Joyce confirmed plans to force Telecom to bear most of the cost through changes to the Telecommunications Service Obligations, which effectively regulate the company.
Telecom will pay most of the $300 million to be raised through a new levy to increase broadband cover and speed, and from July will also pay the full cost of providing phone services, at a loss, to 58,000 rural customers.
Telecom warned the moves would wipe $168 million of its pre-tax profits over three years. Its share price fell 4 cents to a record low of $2.17 when the plans were announced on Tuesday.
Another National Fail as well. Telecom should shut down their system overnight and sell the parts for what they can get. This Govt. is no better than the last when it comes to stealing shareholders rights.
What the fuck goes on in their minds. Ahhh socialism of course.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Bryla,
[Repeat now that today's GD has come up]
Genuine question:
As you say you are a Christian, and that you believe civil disobedience is acceptable in some cases where lives are placed at risk, do you also support the destruction of, say, abortion clinics because they destroy the lives of children in the womb?
March 20th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I must admit I miss the ‘baiter, too.
Johnboy, how do you know he’ll be back next week – did he mention he was going to be away and I missed it?
March 20th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
“Johnboy, how do you know he’ll be back next week – did he mention he was going to be away and I missed it?”
No, he exceeded his 100 demerits, and received the ensuing two week ban when he called malcolm a wanker !
March 20th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
this is vey funny..
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/jon-stewart-dedicates-half-his-show-to-an-epic-glenn-beck-takedown/
“..On Thursday’s Daily Show, the part of Glenn Beck was played by Jon Stewart.
Railing against progressivism’s pitfalls (though he’s still not quite sure what they are), Stewart lashed out against government takeovers —
– including a very personal one: ..
..“In my America, nobody tells people when they can masturbate.”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 20th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Thanks, Angus.
Was DPF in a bad mood that day? – I’ve heard people called a whole lot worse and not receive any demerits.
And Malcolm does seem to goad Red quite unnecesarily IMO, and so probably was being a m’baiter.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Its real tough to get a two week ban for telling the truth.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
“and so probably was being a m’baiter.”
A Malcomtentbaiter—— I like it.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
anyone been on/tried chatroulette..?..yet..?
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/chatroulette-may-be-overrun-with-males-and-perverts-but-new-figures-show-its-popularity-is-skyrocketing/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 20th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
“anyone been on/tried chatroulette..?..yet..?
You are the only pervert we know phil so the answer is no. Just you so far.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Very good, Johnboy.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
“..Johnboy (2275) Says:
March 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
So nobody has shot the darkie yet eh. Can’t be far away..”
what a class act you are..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 20th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Now I know why we got kicked out – Chris Carter and his mates – theyre just trouble………………
From The Times (UK)
A senior US officer and former Nato commander sparked outrage in the Netherlands today by declaring that gay soldiers in the Dutch military were one of the reasons for the Srebrenica massacre, the worst act of mass murder in Europe committed since the second world war.
The Dutch government and military responded with anger and contempt after General John Sheehan, a retired marine corps officer who was Nato’s supreme commander at the time of the 1995 atrocity, told a US Senate hearing that gay soldiers in the military could result in events like Srebrenica.
In July 1995 Bosnian Serb forces overran the Bosnian Muslim enclave under the protection of Dutch UN peacekeepers and killed 8,000 Muslim males, making the event a traumatic national disgrace for the Dutch.
Following recent remarks from Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, that Europeans had gone soft, Sheehan argued that changes after the end of the cold war had reduced Europe’s appetite for combat.
“They declared a peace dividend and made a conscious effort to socialise their military – that includes the unionisation of their militaries, it includes open homosexuality. That led to a force that was ill-equipped to go to war,” he said.
“The case in point that I’m referring to is when the Dutch were required to defend Srebrenica against the Serbs. The battalion was under-strength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off, and executed them. That was the largest massacre in Europe since world war two.”
He added that the Dutch chief of staff had told him that having gay soldiers at Srebrenica had sapped morale and contributed to the disaster.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Count me in as a redbaiter fan too!
March 20th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
But at least I am only classy with my own flock of consenting sheep phil.
I don’t seek satisfaction surfing the net as a pervert like you does.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Angus 2:19 pm,
From the article:
Another example of the love and tolerance from the ‘religion of peace’.
And one must ask why the international community and the UN are so quite on this sort of (Muslim) thing, but continue to denigrade Israel for protecting her citizens, etc.
It’s a strange world we live in.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
I missed redbaiters ban but if a bloke calls another bloke a wanker then, according to some stats I saw a few years ago, he would have a 85% percent chance of being correct??
just a thought.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
I think it is nearer 99.9% jaba (with you and I of course being the few exceptions).
March 20th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
DPF, as there are no comments allowed on the Oz election thread, I’ll take this up here.
DPF The South Australian Senate is less important. Some may be amused that a No Pokies political party actually has a state senator!
1. South Australia, in common with all Australian states, does not have a Senate. It does, however, have a second chamber, the Legislative Council.
2. Nick Xenophon is a Senator for South Australia. He sits in the Senate, which sits in Canberra, not Adelaide.
3. Nick Xenophon was a State MP before becoming a Senator.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Black Craps off to a great start – Bollinger has Watling LBW for a golden duck. Can the Black Craps keep the game alive for the weekend?
March 20th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Helen Clark 2:30 pm,
Is there any question that permitting openly queer soldiers would, even by itself, reduce morale within the military?
It puts a whole different inflection on the phrase “backing up your mates” in a combat situation.
[Nice of Helen to take time out of her busy schedule at the UN to join us here at Kiwiblog - thanks Helen, appreciate it.]
March 20th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Carried over from http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/03/general_debate_19_march_2010.html#comment-673443
Trust you had a pleasant trip to Otaki!
Gandhi: Agreed, a good man. Except two things come to mind, 1) His non-violent pacifism had a place in terms of his situation (and granted, it will also suit other situations), but IMO not all situations will suit the Ghandi model. 2) It is fortunate for him that the British Empire was on the wane, and also that the occupiers of India weren’t more totalitarian and thus didn’t simply eliminate him from the picture. Three cheers for the British Empire then eh!
I realise you (and other likeminded peace folk) actually understand defence and security issues rather well (the irony here is, despite this greater understanding over normal people going about their daily lives, your weighing up of the situation still tends towards solutions that if anything threatens peace, seeing your energies are spent fighting democratic western institutions, whilst the “other side” gets a free ride and ponders why the west tolerates such treason, but are thankful for “your” unwitting(?) part in shoring up their resolve to carry on suppressing those around them.
The other irony is whilst “you” call for a curtailment of the western security apparatus, “you” folks are quite happily undertaking intelligence gathering of your own in terms of assessing/researching western military and intelligence systems and seeking means to sway public opinion in terms of their dismantling.
Granted, you ask a very valid question in whether I (or “we”) have confidence in the “accountability of your government, its integrity, and its actual knowledge of how the US uses the Waihopai resource”. This really should be the issue, not a panic call to dismantle such institutions or NZ’s defence infrastructure etc. I do agree accountability, to an extent (after all we’re talking about secret squirrel stuff, that if were totally transparent it would severely compromise this ability to capture intelligence), is very important, especially in a democracy.
You talk about Echelon’s commercial and diplomatic espionage – yes I have heard about that from the likes of Nicky Hager’s exposure, which no doubt is exactly where you’ve heard it from too. But in this case we are talking about one man’s perspective and his agenda to sway public opinion by presenting a non-partisan and usually unbalanced approach that is intended to suit his aims. Eg does he talk about the good of Echelon, that I described prior, in terms of keeping an eye on the rogue TNI elements? And howabout for keeing an eye on the illegal Fijian military regime? Of course not, for that would destroy his public disinformation campaign wouldn’t it. Ok, do I like the fact that Echelon allegedly is being used for commercial and diplomatic espionage? Well naturally I am weary but despite the fact that two wrongs don’t make a right, the others are doing the same as well, so I’d rather have the lesser of two evils especially if the other side is non-democratic. Ok you say but one is Airbus, an example of a democratic player, sure I am weary but then again Airbus have received massive govt subsidies that may have not been known about without Echelon. In fact let’s twist off a bit, if Echelon was running prior to 85 down under, maybe we would have had known more about the proposed Rainbow warrior bombing – that surely is a good thing.
As in for any potential bad effects that Echelon alledgedly contributes to, just like you naming Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield in another posting about Iraq, THAT is the crux of the issue. It’s not so much in having (or not having) Echelon or warfighting abilities, it’s keeping those democratically elected politicians accountable. For Echelon and the military as I have descibed can (and do) do a lot of good in this world because there are elements out there that do not have good intentions. Your enegies should be focused on greater accountabilities, not the dismantling of the western security apparatus, for as we have seen in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion, where there is a vacuum, bad triumph’s over good.
I do have a little bit (but not alot) of admiration for your pacifism, but excuse me if I and others (figuratively speaking) defend your rights to be idealistic pacifist’s (although it also seems you guys are actually biased against the west) with a gun.
For history has shown, that communities, that are weak, are simply overrun by the invaders and either killed or enslaved or assimilated. This is mankind’s history over thousands of years, to which you obviously understand (but choose to ignore). I agree mankind can and should be good, but there are some that have evil intentions and these are the people that really shape history (and those that try and stop them). Idealist’s such as yourselves are as equally important, but simply become lost in history as you are over run.
Finally it still appears that you and your peace groups sanction the death (or enslavement) of innocents, as long as the path of purity and idealism is being followed. I do have a problem with that, so yes I clearly do support western collective security. Whilst not perfect it is better than the real world alternatives out there.
March 20th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
i don’t talk to racist scum..johnboy..
consider yrslf r.i.p-ed/non-person..
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 20th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Quardle ardle wardle doodle.
Squawk shuffle shuffle peck.
Here comes Paula.
Get a job Magpie.
When is CYFS coming to take your kid away.
Can’t let a druggie bring up a child.
March 20th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Can we ban Dimebag for breaking Pandasport ?
March 20th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Hon Rodney Hide, MP for Epsom
INVITES YOU
to his regular feedback forum
Monday 22 March, 6.00pm-7.30pm
Mecca Cafe
Cnr Nuffi eld St and Remuera Rd, Newmarket
The topic The MMP Referendum
The guest speaker Peter Shirtcliffe, retired Businessman and Lobby Co-leader,
Put MMP to the Vote.
FEEDBACK
Free Entry. Cash bar and coffee available. Everyone welcome
Peter Shirtcliffe CMG is a former chairman of Telecom New Zealand and has held many other leadership positions in New Zealand business. He was also the founding chairman of the Enterprise Education Foundation and later a trustee of the Enterprise New Zealand Trust. He was awarded a CMG in 1988 before receiving the New Zealand Commemoration Medal in 1990.
Peter was the founder of Coalition for a Better Government in 1993, working tirelessly to educate New Zealanders about the perils of MMP.
Background on Peter’s Speech The evening will start with the speeches at 6.30pm.Rodney will speak first for 10 minutes which will be followed by Peter Shirtcliffe. There will be plenty of time for questions and debate. The formal part of the evening will finish by 7.30pm.
Peter Shirtcliffe says the referendum process was muddled and designed more as a “tick-the-box” exercise by a government which for now was in love with MMP rather than a process to give New Zealanders the best electoral system.
“There is a real opportunity not only to throw MMP out but to deliver a Parliament of far fewer MPs than we have now. First past the post, preferential voting and the supplementary member systems can all run with 100 MPs. MMP cannot. “The government should be looking at reducing the size of the House of Representatives –– in other words, giving more with less.” Shirtcliffe suggested that people should be allowed to vote preferentially on the alternatives to MMP to ensure that there was a strongly favoured alternative attracting an absolute majority of support. Mr Shirtcliffe said turnouts at MMP elections had been considerably lower than in first-past-the-post elections, reflecting widespread public disdain for MMP.
Visit Peter’s website http://www.petershirtcliffe.co.nz for more information
March 20th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Peter was the founder of Coalition for a Better Government in 1993, working tirelessly to educate New Zealanders about the perils of MMP.
And I’m looking at one right now
March 20th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
This is great. Not happy about the sheep’s attitude though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvJw7lw0I_E&feature=related
March 20th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
What about females in the military? Does that reduce moral as well?
Poor males who get a hard on in the middle of combat for seeing a female arse?
What sort of inflection on the phrase “backing up your mates” in a combat situation does result of that.
March 20th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
What about females in the military? Does that reduce moral as well?
Poor males who get a hard on in the middle of combat for seeing a female arse?
What sort of inflection on the phrase “backing up your mates” in a combat situation does result of that?
Or are you implying that only homosexual males are constantly thinking about sex, even when under fire?
Your depth of antiquated notions and prejudices continues to amaze.
March 20th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Will the Black Craps maange to bat 40 overs?
4/48 after 28.
March 20th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Quardle ardle wardle doodle.
Squawk shuffle shuffle peck.
Here comes Paula.
Get a job Magpie.
When is CYFS coming to take your kid away.
Can’t let a druggie bring up a child.
Isn’t the 5th line a reason for demerits? That is getting at Phil through his child.
Presumably CYFS won’t remove his child from his care because they have no reason to.
March 20th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Hey niggly, thanx for acknowledging the importance of accountability in a democracy. I get my info from a variety of sources, and commercial espionage through echelon has been reported on by the European Parliament.
Are you trying to say that cost plus contracts by the US govt for the defence dept don’t constitute a subsidy, or subsidy equivalent for Boeing? Are you saying that commercial espionage for the US is a legitimate interest of NZ?
You won’t hear me talk about dismantling so much as conversion.
The very same equipment now used for unaccountable and anti-democratic purposes COULD be used for genuine securityand social development. Arms control verification. Disaster relief. Coordination of humanitarian aid etc. It’s not the technology, it’s the political culture.
KrisK, Kris K, it’s not my particular issue but sure, I’d encourage anyone to act on their conscience and accept the consequences. I’d be happy if they were nonviolent and had a plan. but even if they aren’t and don’t it’s an improvement on apathetic folk who never go past having an opinion.
Johnboy, you really are just too, too kind. I don’t deserve all this attention from you and your elk.
March 20th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Urgle, the wireless service in Otaki could use some improvement.
March 20th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
The word is ilk Bryla.
An Elk is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk
Here we call them Wapiti.
March 20th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Johnboy,
is that magpie really dead? you wish.
Paula is learning. Whore is hiding in the grass, not long now.
Quardle ardle wardle doodle.
March 20th, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Magpie lives. I am dead. 130 demerits. The boss has no sense of humour at all.
Such is life. Still I am off next week to kill some redskins hopefully with my 7RemMag so can’t post anyway from the scrub so it is a minor matter.
Think only of me that I gave my life to shag a Sheep or two or a Kangaroo.
March 20th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Kris K (1746) Says:
March 20th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
its not a funny old world, it’s a sick one.
Good on the American for calling a spade a spade, pity the Dutch one couldn’t in public.
March 20th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
LeftRightOut 5:56 pm
Surely you’re not saying Muslims are “a backward and barbaric people”, LRO?
Incredible – something we actually agree on.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
You know that’s not what he said Kris.
With some of the things you suggest against anyone with different beliefs have you considered that you could potentially fit the same label?
I often see Muslims walking the streets here (saw some today). They seem less threatening than some of your attitude.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Kris K
This is how Red earned his two week ban:
” Sorry, you’re still not making sense.”
I’m making sense Malcolm, its just that you’re too fucken dumb to know it. Go away you boring piffling spiteful little wank.
[DPF: 20 demerits]
However, menace got to say this and got away with it.
# menace (210) Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
mattyroo
“Had I been a sadistic muslim fucker”
its fucking arse hole pieces of shit like you mate that are responsible for many problems you fucking arse hole, generalisations like this are shocking and make me wonder what problems they will cause for me in my later years and my childrens years when Islam becomes the number one religion in the world and muslim comunities become more than 50 percent of nations(western). How do you expect them to act when fucking peiece of shit mother fucker cocksucking arse holes like you make these bullshit generalizations.
if you think my reaction is xtreem, its not, i can almost bet you somebody else reads your shit and considers doing more than just typing.
P.S. did i say you are a fucking arse hole.
But hey if you are inviting hostility towards our nation and ethnicity as you have shown to other ethnic/religious groups then you are succeding, but it will be people like you that i will hold responsible if/when the shit hits the fan one day. For me you are equal to nazi skinheads.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
WebWrat 7:07 pm,
Thanks for the research and the comparison. Redbaiter’s response hardly rates compared to what Menace said.
And it’s hard to think of anything much more offensive than what Menace said.
DPF must have had a hard night beforehand (or similar) is the only reason for this inconsistant dishing out of demerits.
Although, sometimes there is more latitude if the offence occurs either later in the thread or else in General Debate – another possibility.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
DPF is sort of like Billy Bowden then.
Maybe if he gets to keep the stumps he might feel better about things. Just a thought.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Probably he is much less likely to read them then, and he has said he isn’t an avid follower of GD.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Pete George 7:04 pm,
I’m not into labels in a big way, Pete.
But if I were I’ve been blessed with pretty thick skin – so it’s all good.
Don’t let their looks deceive you, Pete, it’s all a big plot to lull you into a false sense of security prior to them showing you their full hand.
There’s a saying that the Brittish had:
“The Arabs (Muslims) are either at your feet, or they’re at your throat.”
It’s too late when they’re holding up your severed head and screaming Allahu Akbar!
March 20th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
I discovered a new passion today: laughing at Martyn Bradbury’s bitching and whining on his poorly designed blog.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Something to consider Pete: The Koran has decreed that wherever muslims walk or go automatically becomes Muslim property. It belongs to them, now and forever, and, if it is in ‘Infidel’ (that’s you and me old chap, along with anyone else who is not a Muslim) lands it is to be retrieved BY FORCE. Therefore the Muslims you saw are actually ‘staking their claim’ to your and my country.
If you also remember that there are currently in excess of 63,000 Muslim in New Zealand, all of whom are OBLIGED (yes, even the so-called ‘Moderates’) to retrieve that land because the Koran says to do so, there is a problem developing. compounded by the fact that in the West (which includes us) Muslims work as Fifth-columnists from inside Western society and cities (and use the law to their advantage while doing so). Unlike Europe, there are so far no areas in NZ which are Muslim enclaves, but this is more by accident than design, yet with their rising birth-rate (they are out-producing us in respect of children) this is becoming a possibility which could be potentially dangerous for our country. Liberals and lefties unfortunately only compound the problem.
Not a problem for little old New Zealand? It will never happen here? I wish, but sadly t’aint so. We sleep at the ‘wheel’ at our peril.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
And we accuse and ostracise and create tension at our peril too. The best thing we can do is show how to live peacefully, democratically and with tolerance of others. The more conflict is talked up the more likely it is to become reality.
March 20th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
PG
I shall start rip you too if you keep that up.
Ignoring the threat from Muslims doesn’t make it go away.
that is Dhimmi thinking and attitudes which is just what they want.
Only plonkers ignore reality.
March 21st, 2010 at 8:32 am
I don’t ignore the threat from extreme Muslims. Just as I don’t ignore the threat from wannabee crusaders.
If I see a real threat to New Zealand I’ll do what I can to stand up to it. I think I can see through self interested scaremongering well enough, especially when it comes across as whinging about the “wrong” religion.
Religious zealots can be amongst the most dangerous – they will support any means to try and force their own beliefs and wipe out anyone that they see as a threat. Some Muslims are just one example.
The zealots don’t want to hear anything beyond their own bigotry, and make fairytale threats if challenged. Rip away.
March 21st, 2010 at 9:19 am
Watermelons block motorway after truck rolls
really! who Russel etc
March 21st, 2010 at 9:23 am
MikeNZ (1490) Says:
March 20th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
PG
I shall start rip you too if you keep that up.
I think RIP is the greatest tool on the interweb. Its the silicon age equivalent of sticking fingers in ears and yelling
” LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA”.
It’s the perfect playground tool for those who are yet to leave the playground.
March 21st, 2010 at 10:12 am
I’ll be signing out but my conclusions are thus:
Your idealism is to ensure there is world peace, by unilaterally dismantling the appartus of war.
You support direct action against the likes of Waihopia/Echelon because you see them as contributing to the US war machine.
You don’t counter my viewpoint that Waihopai/Echelon actually has good purposes, such as in laymans terms, keeping an eye on rougue Indonesian TNI military elements in West Papua, or the Fiji military regime, no doubt what the French are up to in the South Pacific etc. So you (and the Ploughshare activists, Keith Locke and Nicky Hager etc) would rather take the pure approach and see it gone, thus denying the ANZUS country’s the ability to monitor these developments and plan for action to stabalise these areas when the time is right. In the meantime a potential loss of means of gathering intelligence can see innocent civilian lives lost in these areas if these rogue military elements know they aren’t being monitored, as in what was and still is happenning in West Papua. But your viewpoint seems to suggest that it is an acceptable price to pay (in that innocent civilians, our pacific brothers and sisters, can/have/are being killed by these rogue elements) in order not to have such spy bases here or in Australia etc.
You protest in Australia about the US Navy presence in your home city of Cairns. You protest about US spy bases in Australia too. You wish for them to be gone.
Also you (and other protest groups), like the general public of NZ, support the East Timorese UN mandated intervention in 1999 by Australia, NZ and a number of other like minded countries, and ongoing Timor Leste independance. But you are prepared to put that all at risk, for your greater good, by wishing to deny the ANZUS country’s ability to monitor Indonesian intelligence and military communications.
Another thing, the US Navy/USMC, the subject of your protests, you would know (as well as the Hager’s and Locke’s, but you all choose to ignore) the fact that when OZ and NZ INTERFET forces secured East Timor, a US Navy air warfare cruiser was on station off Timor as a deterrent to shoot down any Indonesian air threat to the incoming INTERFET forces (imagine the loss of ANZAC soldiers lives if one of their transport ships were attacked?). The USMC had one of their amphibious assault carriers “on exercises” off Timor as a backup, just in case those rogue TNI and militia elements defied the new Indonesian Govt and took a more aggressive stance against the OZ and NZ forces and shot back.
(BTW there were also reports of an Indonesian submarine shadowing the INTERFET task force and slipped under a NZ Frigate on station there. Puts lies to the Clark Govt’s attitude that anti-submarine warfare upgrades to NZ’s militarty assets weren’t important).
So it seems, you (and the Lock’s and Hager’s etc) ARE NOT REALLY friends of East Timor after all, you wouldn’t care less if they continued to suffer because if you somehow succeeded in denying the US war machine a presence in this region and they weren’t there to deter the Indonesian TNI military from attacking OZ/NZ forces. But your eyes that’s ok, because you wish to reach your nirvana of NO military – US – OZ – NZ etc.
(As another aside have you ever stopped to think that without the US presence in this region, Australia and NZ would actually have to triple defence spending to buy further high tech warfighting (not peacekeeping) equipment, expand the Army etc, to counter this US power vacuum. That’s the unintended consequences. Do we really want to have to do that, at the expense of other funding needs)?
I can’t help feeling you are using your idealism to project another agenda, because the reality of your actions, and those Waihopia activists, won’t bring peace as claimed but simply the conditions to allow other evil intent to spread and cause immediate death and destruction. I can’t help feeling you’re just another marxist in disguise. I also wonder, in light of your alledged christianity, as whether you are simply a false prophet misleading his flock.
Finally, the military (of the US/NZ/Aust) are just well armed civil servants. They undertake all manner of good work, most of which don’t make news worthy headlines. They can be used for good or bad purposes (eg Iraq invasion), but the key here is the accountability of those that make the decisions to committ them to their taskings i.e. the politicians.
So Cheney and co invaded Iraq. Rather than protesting at the military/intelligence establishment, what are you doing to ensure accountability so that there can never be a repeat of such an action? That’s where your efforts ought to be focused.
March 21st, 2010 at 10:35 am
Funny that you should say that , Mike, because he is advocating to keep “Don’t ask, don’t tell” which is anything but calling a spade a spade. The gay man fighting next to you is okay as long as he keeps quiet about it.
Blaming the Srebrenica masssacre on openly gay soldiers is right up there with Pat Robertson’s hurricane Katherina is God’s revenge for America’s evil ways.
But then again you and Kris might actually believe that too
March 21st, 2010 at 11:11 am
Good post Niggly.
March 21st, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Silly billybonkers, it’s more like putting a screaming, crying baby in a soundproofed room and getting golden silence.
March 21st, 2010 at 7:11 pm
eszett 10:35 am,
At least when they were still ‘in the closet’ they didn’t push their lifestyle in everyone’s face.
Now that it’s ‘legal’ they think they have rights or something, and force feed us with their hedonistic and perverted practices.
And we wonder why society has gone off the rails when we normalise such things that not that long ago were regarded as a mental illness and a perversion of the worst kind.
But why should we be surprised when we have cast off the foundational values which our society was based upon?
Now we call evil good, and good evil.
And make no bones; homosexuality is evil – an abomination of the worst kind!