Phil U doesn’t like the free market deciding wages on merit… would you if you were Layabout Phil?

Me neither. I’ve just done the calculations and I’ll be able to buy an extra packet of chewing gum a week.

We pay either way, either through the tax system in dole payments, or crime rates, or both, so let’s go the constructive route, for a change.

A lot of those whingeing about youth rates don’t care if crime goes up, as long as the criminals are in a privately run jail.

But I do not agree with the amateur economists here who find correlation between increasing youth rates or minimum wage to increasing unemployment. One must also factor in the state of the economy. The OECD has done serious studies which may show correlation, but turn out to be not causative.

I accept that, and, when combined with my own experience, I endorse the status quo.

All business work in the same environment. Very few, if any, of our export businesses are labour intensive these days, otherwise they would head overseas, and the local businesses can all just pass it on to the consumer, who pays in the end.

Now, the same people who squeal at that are the same people who want to treat the young as chattels, to be whacked as they please, or who want to reduce their existing rights, as in the increase in the driving age.

We pay either way, either through the tax system in dole payments, or crime rates, or both, so let’s go the constructive route, for a change.

I support National’s stand and applaud them for it.

But don’t ask me about their GST increase!

eh..?

the (failed) pig-farmer is not loved by many..eh..?

funny that..!..eh..?

‘d’yareckon it was something he said..?

Phil(whoar.co.nz)

National Party MPs making the argument against abolishing youth rates in September 2007. Read their speeches and ask them all when you see them next if they agree with what they said, and if they did not why did they say it.

I just don’t get it. Read these speeches and the debate and the same reasons that existed then exist now.

All I can figure out is that this decision is a “fuck Sir Roger” vote and National simply don’t give a shit about youth unemployment and would rather make a point to Sir Roger and ACT.

There’s plenty of competition, but our vote for the recent act of Congress that has caused the most economic hardship goes to the May 2007 law raising the minimum wage in three stages to $7.25 an hour from $5.15. Rarely has a law hurt more vulnerable people more quickly.

A higher minimum wage has the biggest impact on those with the least experience or the fewest skills. That means in particular those looking for entry-level jobs, especially teenagers. And sure enough, as nearly all economic models predict, the higher minimum has wreaked havoc with teenage job seekers, well beyond what you would expect even in a recession.

Image

The chart compares the three-stage increase in the minimum wage with the jobless rate for teens age 16 to 19 since 2007. The first increase, to $5.85 from $5.15, came after a decade of no increases and when the overall jobless rate was below 5% and the teen rate was 14.9%. The demand for labor was sufficiently strong in many areas that most employers were probably willing to absorb the higher wage.

But as the minimum wage increased even as the overall job market began to worsen, the damage to teen job seekers became more severe. By the time the third increase to $7.25 from $6.55 took effect in July 2009, the teen jobless rate was 24.3%, and by October it peaked at 27.6% before dropping to 26.4% in January.

The story is even worse for black teens, who often have lower than average education levels or live in areas with fewer job prospects. Their jobless rate climbed from 38.5% before the third wage hike to 49.8% in November 2009, before falling back to 43.8% in January. For black male teens, the rate climbed to 52.2% in December from 39.2% in July. The difference between the jobless rates for black teens and the entire population widened by six percentage points from June 2007 to January 2010. Even assuming those rates fall as the job market improves this year, they will remain destructively high.

The third increase was especially ill-timed because it hit while the recession was ending but before employers have felt confident to rehire. To raise the cost of unskilled labor precisely when the jobless rate is heading toward 10% is an act of almost willful economic stupidity. A Congress that has spent $862 billion to create jobs thus managed with its wage increase to harm tens of thousands of entry-level job seekers. And it did so in the name of “compassion” and a “living wage.” In many cases that wage has since become zero.

The evidence is clear that increasing the minimum wage is an expensive and misguided way to try to move working families out of poverty. According to the Employment Policies Institute, 85% of people who earn the minimum wage aren’t the primary bread winner in a family.

Most readers remember the work habits they learned from their first job. Showing up on time, being courteous to customers, learning how to use technology—such habits are often more valuable than the actual paycheck. Studies have confirmed that when teens work during summer months or after school they have higher lifetime earnings than those who don’t work. So raising the minimum wage may inadvertently reduce lifetime earnings.

Most Democrats won’t bend on the minimum wage because it is a core union demand, but free thinkers ought to at least consider the teenage job problem. The long-term danger is that we are building in a higher level of structural unemployment as our least-skilled workers find it harder to climb onto the first rung of the job market.

Washington could at least establish a teenage, or sub-minimum, wage closer to $5 an hour. More than half of all minimum wage workers get a pay raise within one year on the job, so wages will rise naturally with experience and talent. More young people will be hired, and more will learn what it takes to get ahead in America.

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=936&sid=913ba5dc454631c903da2e5d5e61c5d3&p=29082#p29082

y’know..!..some may feel that those making their riches..by sucking/feeding on the body politic..

..by doing ‘surveys’ for them..

..and producing absolutely s.f.a. of anything of any real ‘use’..

..are somewhat ‘parasitic’ in nature..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

..(or fosters threads for that..)

go back to early ’05 archives..and check it out..

it has always been thus on kiwiblog..

and for him to claim any different is total horse-shit..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

While sitting on your arse all day while other hard working Kiwis go out to work so you can choose to set an atrocious example to your kids.

“..and the work i do on whoar..”

That is NOT work.

“you lift your head..to sneer at the poorest/most disposessed..”

Stop telling fucking lies, DPF has never sneered at the poorest, he rightly sneers at parasites like you who claim to be for the “poorest/most dispossessed” yet you have no issue with your lifestyle that is funded by those same people.

You sure speak for me, very well said.

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

your ‘business’..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

isn’t that what you do..?

‘sweet..!..!..eh..?

money for old rope..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

really..?..shit..!

and there we all were thinking you have used your website for the last five years..

as both a spruiker .. and an apologist for national..

go figure..!..eh..?

(thanks for putting us right on that..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

.and the study i have done since then..

..and the work i do on whoar..

and hey..!..don’t come the raw prawn..!..eh..?

you ‘work’ that gummint-scene/seam..

and i am betting that more than 50% of yr income..

..comes from that ‘working’ the gummint-spiggots…eh..?

with an upsurge since ‘your crew’ got into office eh..?

let the good times roll..!..eh..?

as i said..don’t come the raw prawn..eh..?

i don’t buy a word of it..

you lift your head..to sneer at the poorest/most disposessed..who are raising the generation that will support you in yr dotage..

.(.and who ..incidentally..fund yr lavish lifestyle/particular brand of gastronomical decadence..)

and then you just return to shovelling up that lovely ‘gummint-money’..eh..?

rank hypocrisy does give off quite an odour..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

Trying to comprehend your arguement here philu…

Is it that you think the money David earns from his private company that happens to do some of its work for the public sector is wrong, if so then why?

Or is it that you think no private company has a right to its profits and those profits should all be returned through taxes? If sothen are you bat shit crazy?

So its the recession then, not wages, that are at issue, in your opinion?

Now, tell me again about the outcome of the Jobs Summit and how many new jobs have been created by that wank fest.

And then, please direct me to National’s policies for ending the recession, recession proofing the economy and catching up to Oz. real policies, though, not PR puff pieces which is all we seem to see.

Nz currently does not have a government, it has a poll driven bunch of managerialists without a decent idea among them.

[DPF: I'm not here to defend National. In case you missed it in your stupidity I have slammed them for their policy on the minimum youth wage as I think it will keep youth unemployment high]