Silly

March 17th, 2010 at 11:03 am by David Farrar

The Dom Post reports:

Women are being prevented from taking part in a two-day conference on male suicide rates.

The conference, with more than 100 participants from around New Zealand, features male-only guest speakers.

Wairarapa suicide prevention coordinator Barry Taylor said women were excluded to encourage men to take responsibility for their own mental health. “Men’s mental health has been a hidden subject over many years. Part of the problem is that they don’t talk about their feelings and they don’t ask for help.”

Mr Taylor said some women had asked to be part of the conference but were told no.

How silly. I’m all for a focus on men’s health, but banning women from attending a conference on it, is as silly as banning men from a conference on women’s health. Doctors and professionals tend to be of both genders.

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41 Responses to “Silly”

  1. KiwiGreg (3,246 comments) says:

    “Wairarapa suicide prevention coordinator Barry Taylor ”

    I’m assuming we pay this turkey’s wages.

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  2. James (1,338 comments) says:

    Right up there with banning male gynacologists from a conference on Womens sexual health….

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  3. big bruv (13,675 comments) says:

    If Barry Taylor (sorry, but visions of “Barry Taylor” from Auf Wiedersehen, Pet come to mind when I see this his name) really wanted to be a success in his job the first thing he should do with any suicidal person is tell them to get the fuck out of the dump that is the Wairarapa.

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  4. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    Why is it silly? Everything doesn’t have to be PC all inclusive. Wouldn’t it be sillier if they insisted on 50 women, 15 Maori, 10 PI, half an Indian etc.

    Are women being “prevented” from attending or are they just not being invited? Presumably it isn’t an open to the public conference. It doesn’t mean all women are excluded from anything that tries to address male suicide problems.

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  5. KiwiGreg (3,246 comments) says:

    Spending 2 days with a bunch of only guys talking about suicide might just tip me over the edge.

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  6. Fletch (6,240 comments) says:

    I don’t see it as being silly at all.
    Women have plenty of conferences that if men asked to go along to we would look silly.

    Sometimes men are only comfortable talking to other men about something, maybe it’s suicide, maybe it’s other men’s problems like erectile dysfunction. And why should they not be able to? Why should women feel like they ALWAYS have to join in?

    I’m sure there are other conferences on suicide where everyone is welcome, but what is silly is saying that a group of men can’t get together when they like to discuss the subject and perhaps focus on issues that concern them.

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  7. RightNow (6,966 comments) says:

    They’re not banned: “Female members of the media and Wairarapa District Health Board’s communications team have been given permission to attend the event, which begins in Masterton today. “

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  8. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    This is a beat up as if you check the report, they never were banned, they just weren’t invited, mainly so guys could talk freely.
    What about?
    Maybe how women and our feminazi society) are the one of the biggest causes of male suicide!

    As the Human rights council said it’s not against the law as scouts and guides deliniate on gender and they don’t.
    So who asked the human rights council and why?
    Bloody media that’s who.
    So the report is just a beat up on men………..
    see no need to go to the conference as that’s one of the biggest reasons for male suicide, a feminazi society which seeks to knock men at all levels and times if they can.

    DPF just dds to the beat up.

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  9. LeftRightOut (622 comments) says:

    New day, new beat up. Same old, same old.

    meanwhile, hundreds more jobs vanish overseas as part of our move to close the wages gap with Oz.

    How about applying the blowtorch to national’s feet, or is that too close to home?

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  10. Philonz (91 comments) says:

    Sounds pretty sensible to me. it’s about men taking responsibility for our own emotional health for a change instead of expecting women to deal with all the emotional stuff. the organiser says “So often men have delegated their emotional issues on to the women in their lives. It is vital that … we take responsibility for dealing with the issues.” Sounds reasonable to me and the National Council of Women seem to think so too.

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  11. Philonz (91 comments) says:

    Feminazis?? Get a grip MikeNZ! Just the media scraping the barrel for stories. The National Council of Women think the male-only conference is a great idea so there really isn’t some lesbo-leftie-feminazi conspiracy here, just your paranoia.

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  12. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    a feminazi society

    Resorting to nasty name calling won’t help men at all. This just reinforces the “poor us, they’re all out to get us” victim mentality. Men have to learn to be positive and strong, accepting that women can also be strong.

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  13. Murray (8,844 comments) says:

    Since women are the primary cause of mens suicide I’d say its a little slice of sensitivity.

    Leftirggtout whats is the relevence of your comment becuae it looks like question time under lairbour when mentionign the questions in your reply was enough to qualify as addressing it. Actually you didn’t even do that. Labour party employed troll are we?

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  14. Scott (1,763 comments) says:

    The conference is a chance for men to get together and talk positively about issues that face them. In this case male suicide which apparently is three times the rate of female suicide.

    So it is a good thing. The idea that men can’t get together and talk about issues that affect them, because somehow it is excluding women, is nonsense. Don’t women sometimes want to get together and talk about things that affect them?

    Lots of ballyhoo about nothing really. Liberals and feminists need to relax. I believe that men can congregate together without being a clear and present danger to others.

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  15. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    OoH a Tom Clancy fan ;-)
    Have you read any of his (non fiction) leadership series?

    Why was the Human rights council brought into the report and by whom?
    It’s a beat up.

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  16. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    Since women are the primary cause of mens suicide

    I thought suicide was self inflicted.

    Men kill men (and women) much more than women do.

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  17. slightlyrighty (2,506 comments) says:

    Do men really need women telling us how messed up we are?

    In all honesty, there is a need for men to address the issues of mens health. We need to take ownership of our own health in the same way women have done, in such issues as the Cervical Cancer matter and the Unfortunate Experiment.

    Women certainly can’t cry foul over this.

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  18. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    PG
    Why do you say such loon things some days?
    You Know full well that women play a big part in men committing suicide.

    Look at this beat up story, what’s its purpose?
    But to beat up men getting together to discuss and strategize how to prevent it.
    You’d think they’d just encourage and support it.
    But no some lefty liberal (probably secular) feminazi supporting type attacks the organisers to such a degree, that they go get a comment from the human rights council for their story!

    You’re not one of their supporters are you?

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  19. menace (407 comments) says:

    Not silly at all, ok perhaps if this was the one and only conference this year tehn perhaps you could poke your nose in.
    But the way i see it is that, if you are running a conference then its up to you how you want to do that.

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  20. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    Have you read the article Mike? Do you know more than is in the article?

    The headline:

    TANYA KATTERNS wrote the article, but did she write the headline (Women barred from men’s health conference)?

    I can’t see much at all that women beating up on men. The National Council of Women “supported the decision”.
    So did the Human Rights Commission.

    You are presuming left, liberal, secular, feminist attacks. Are you guessing, or can you substantiate any of those?

    You Know full well that women play a big part in men committing suicide.

    No, I don’t. Can you you show me something that substantiates that?

    Of course women and children as well as other men play a part in the mental well being of men. Suicide could as easily be partly due to poor male role models.

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  21. Murray (8,844 comments) says:

    Its not like any one actually gives crap what you “think” pete but most male suicides are the result of relationaship failures and custody issues.

    Or do you plan to go to war with sharp objects and rope to combat suicide?

    And before you get too full of shit, or at least more than you already are, my younger brother commited suicide so yes I have given the matter some attention.

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  22. PaulL (6,016 comments) says:

    If it’s a conference for a cross section of men to talk openly about men’s issues, then makes sense to only have men there.

    If it’s a conference for a group of professionals to talk about the problems and what might be done, then it’s stupid to exclude women.

    Just like if we had a conference of Maori people to take responsibility for and work on the high child abuse statistics in that community, probably we’d only want Maori there. If we had a conference of professionals to talk about the statistics, studies and potential solutions, then you’d be pretty dumb to exclude anyone non-Maori.

    It isn’t clear to me from the material which this conference is. If we’re excluding mental health experts and people with expertise in suicide based on their gender, that seems a bit short sighted.

    And yes, there have in the past been plenty of women only type events. So what, two wrongs don’t make a right. I’m sure DPF also said they were a bad idea.

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  23. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    I know people who have committed suicide (and attempted or threatened) too Murray.

    Men can’t put all the blame for relationship failures and custody issues on women, they have joint responsibility for both. And ultimately they have sole responsibility for themselves.

    I think men having a conference to have a look at men’s problems from a male perspective is a worthwhile attempt at trying to work out how to try and address some of the problems men have. We can’t just blame women, and then expect women to fix it for us. We are supposed to be the fixit sex, but we often can’t sort our own shit out. I applaud the conference for trying to do that.

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  24. PaulL (6,016 comments) says:

    I thought farmers had high suicide rates (crop failures), and young men had high suicide rates . Not usually directly women driven – although I would hazard a guess they’re disproportionately single or love lorn – so to the extent that women fail to find them attractive, that would be a contributor. I’m not always sure we can blame the women for that though.

    You seem to be talking more about people in their middle years – which I thought had lower suicide rates. I agree there are probably numbers of men who commit suicide over custody issues and the like, but I wouldn’t have thought it was the majority.

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  25. burt (8,189 comments) says:

    Look on the up side DPF, under the previous regime where Anderton had the position that if we stop talking about it then it will stop happening not even half the population could have debated the subject with any statistics or knowledge of what really happens. Hell if Jolly Jim has his way then this group of men will probably be required to sign a pledge keeping any outcomes from their meeting secret so as to not cause a mass suicide as a consequence of the public being allowed to read any reports they produce.

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  26. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    A number of reports looking at Social Explanations for Suicide in New Zealand

    I have only had a quick look, but no mention of women being the cause of male suicides (or men being the cause of women’s suicides).

    The broad consensus arising from the suite of reports is that social factors are relevant to suicide. However the linkages between macrosocial, cultural and macroeconomic factors and individual suicidal behaviours still remain unclear.

    Alcohol and mental illnesses including depression are mentioned as potentially significant.

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  27. andrei (2,537 comments) says:

    Gee Pete George – you think the social scientists are in a hurry to identify the casualties of the noble experiments they have undertaken to transform society into nirvana.

    FFS man – we all know you have mortgaged your testicles and approve of the feminization of society but for real men it is not a paradise when their wife absconds with children to live with her girlfriend and the man is reduced to poverty paying for it.

    And don’t say it doesn’t happen it does, a friend of mine lost the business he had spent 20 years developing in just these circumstances – alcoholism depression and suicide followed.

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  28. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    we all know you have mortgaged your testicles and approve of the feminization of society

    You know very little about me.

    I don’t believe a man should own his wife, and I think men and women should have equal rights, is that what you mean?

    I know all sorts of shit happens to all sorts of people for various (mixed) reasons. I have had dark times in my own life – I was “invited” to leave the family home the night of my father’s funeral, so I know a bit about life’s hard knocks. While others had an influence it was my responsibility and I dealt with it and learned from it and am better off for it now.

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  29. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    I have to agree that I believe the feminisation of society, and the resultant disempowerment of men (but where the men are still expected to PAY), is the PRIMARY contributer to male suicide – especially older men with families.

    So allowing men to discuss male suicide in a female free place of meeting is entirely appropriate if men are to be open, honest, and frank.

    I believe that strong, morally founded, conservative families and men as a group (as they represent the ‘evil’ and now outmoded patriarchal society) are two of the primary victim groups which have been systematically attacked by the Marxist/Feminist/Socialist state as it has risen to dominance.

    By removing biblical authority structures society has been able to be transformed by those who basically hate their Creator with such vehemence that they are prepared to sacrifice evrything that is good, moral, true and right to usher in their ‘utopian’ society. Sad to say; the experiment has failed and society is anything but a utopia for many people that reside in it.
    And on this basis we are likely to see male suicide further increase as society slips further down sewer.

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  30. KiwiGreg (3,246 comments) says:

    “I have to agree that I believe the feminisation of society, and the resultant disempowerment of men (but where the men are still expected to PAY), is the PRIMARY contributer to male suicide ”

    Bollocks.

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  31. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    “How silly. I’m all for a focus on men’s health, but banning women from attending a conference on it, is as silly as banning men from a conference on women’s health. Doctors and professionals tend to be of both genders”.

    “I don’t believe a man should own his wife, and I think men and women should have equal rights, is that what you mean?”

    I mean.. you don’t catch woman drinking Spieghts.. do ya mate.

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  32. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    Kris, how can you hate something you don’t believe exists?

    What society has ever been utopian? I mean for the whole of the society, not just for a few power wielding men who try to control it all?

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  33. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    KiwiGreg 2:28 pm,

    So you’re saying that male suicide is a result of “Bollocks”, Greg, or is it more a case of having “Bollocks” increases your propensity toward suicide; hence the reason that male suicide is greater than that of female suicide?

    Interesting theory – perhaps you could expand on it a little – I’m really having to read between the lines to get at the truth of your theory. I await with baited breath.

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  34. Pete George (23,425 comments) says:

    I mean.. you don’t catch woman drinking Spieghts.. do ya mate.

    I take it you weren’t aware in the seventies, when Speights was a regional drink scorned by most young people as “old man’s beer”? In those days some women still sat outside the pub in the car while the man of the family got pissed. It gave them a chance to put some make up on, over yesterday’s bruises.

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  35. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    And not many men can sell Speights.. Mate.

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  36. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    Good on ya mate..

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  37. KiwiGreg (3,246 comments) says:

    “So you’re saying that male suicide is a result of “Bollocks”, Greg, or is it more a case of having “Bollocks” increases your propensity toward suicide; hence the reason that male suicide is greater than that of female suicide?”

    Nah I’m just saying that the gibberish you wrote doesn’t justify any more reasoned response than the one I gave.

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  38. Tassman (238 comments) says:

    I initiated the project and yet received no invitation… anyway, put a woman in there and that’s the end of it. Silly really isn’t it..

    But be warned that suicide will increase under the reign of the murderer of dreams, the Axeman PM. His steam roller has now reached Health like a lamp in the slaughter, I mean like a bulldozer in the corn field you can smell the fresh cut of the fallen…

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  39. Rex Widerstrom (5,345 comments) says:

    Murray says:

    Since women are the primary cause of mens suicide I’d say its a little slice of sensitivity.

    I think if you look a little deeper you’ll find that women are one step removed from the causes of a lot of male suicides. When a couple breaks up, often both parties want to do what they can to hurt the other. It’s human nature.

    But it’s when the agencies of the State get involved that the balance tips. The “Family” Court, IRD Child “Support”, and whole host of other officious… sorry, official people (including the Police, if allegations of molestation are made, as they quite often are) get involved.

    And it’s then that the man realises he’s not being treated fairly or equitably and he’s never going to be. Unless his former partner chooses to be reasonable he’s possibly going to end up rarely, if ever, seeing his children while sacrificing as much as half of his after tax earnings to his former partner.

    Or, if she’s on a benefit and even if they’ve agreed between themselves what he’ll do to support his kids, watching the IRD say they don’t give a dman, and still taking up to half his after-tax income while giving only a portion of that to his former partner and pocketing the rest.

    I’ve seen basically decent men denied proper access to their children whilst their former partner repeatedly fails urine and hair tests for drug use. I’ve faced “independent” female lawyers working in a Domestic Violence Unit – funded by government – who are so anti-men that they wouldn’t let me up to their floor to have a meeting simply because I was in possession of a penis (I wasn’t an accused person, I was providing advice to a female client).

    I wonder if this men only suicide conference will have the balls (excuse the pun) to speak out though, considering most of the participants will probably be on the government payroll. I’m betting not.

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  40. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    KiwiGreg 2:53 pm,

    Nah I’m just saying that the gibberish you wrote doesn’t justify any more reasoned response than the one I gave.

    So I put up a theory which you then label as “bollocks”, but you don’t have the testicular fortitude to put forward your own reasoned response as to why male suicide in NZ is so high?

    Actually none of your responses contribute much to this topic, Greg, just snide little snippets as is your usual calibre.
    I presume you do actually own a pair of “bollocks”, Greg, or do you need to check with the missus first and she only lets you bring them out on special occassions?

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  41. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Although it probably is all just silly – I do welcome it. Under law there is supposed to be no discrimination on the basis of gender. I personally disagree with that. i think that if a group of guys or girls want to set up a club or association or whatever and for it to be of one gender only, then they should be allowed to.

    But womens lib have seen the so called glass walls come down and I think the world is worse for it. Sometimes its good to have mixed company – other times its not.

    Over recent years weve seen all sorts of crap under the label ‘Womens business – females only” – and until we get a few males only occurences things wont change.

    So bring it on – more men only things and maybe well soon see the end of this politically correct crap.

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