UN calls for no tasers

March 29th, 2010 at 11:06 am by David Farrar

The Dom Post reports:

The Government is rejecting a call from the United Nations human rights committee to strip police of Tasers.

Justice Minister Simon Power has also hit back at suggestions by the international body that our criminal justice system discriminates against Maori.

The committee, which is made up of academics and judges, monitors countries that have signed up to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

It issued its final observations on New Zealand after a process that included years of reporting, as well as testimony from Mr Power.

The committee said New Zealand should “consider relinquishing” the use of Tasers because the weapons could cause life-threatening injuries and severe pain.

As does a gun.

Green Party human rights spokesman supported getting rid of Tasers. “The Government should take heed of this esteemed international body.”

Yes Keith. Far better that criminals armed with baseball bats be shot to death like Stephen Wallace was, rather than tasered.

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88 Responses to “UN calls for no tasers”

  1. expat (4,048 comments) says:

    Why isn’t Labour jumping up and down on behalf of the Police Union about having the correct tools to do their job and protect themselves with the recent numbers of assaults against solo or duo Police patrols?

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  2. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    The Greens would also like us to be back on horses (not pushbikes, rubber tyres).

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  3. mattyroo (880 comments) says:

    Keith Locke on the UN Human Rights Committee: “……esteemed international body.”

    I just hurt myself laughing!

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  4. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Michaels

    Do not be so bloody stupid, Horses shit and fart all over the place, think of the carbon footprint!.

    The Greens do not want Police at all.

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  5. redqueen (342 comments) says:

    This is yet another example of the UN being a useless, time-wasting, body. While I am not, personally, a fan of tasers they represent a significantly better option than being shot and, in many ways, being batoned. That they are ‘potentially lethal’ is part of the point: all forms of restraint are potentially dangerous and, let’s face it, lethal. If the police are required to use force, far greater potential harm exists if they must use batons or firearms. Tasers represent a relatively harmless approach, compared to potentially permanent damage from a proper strike. This is just an example of ‘let’s have our cake and eat it too’. We aren’t talking about nice situations, we’re talking about seriously unpleasant ones, and to say that we should ban tasers because they’re ‘dangerous’ shows that these fools aren’t operating in the real world. Must be nice to sit in a comfortable office in New York, away from all its problems, surrounded by enough security to make statements like this.

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  6. Ross Nixon (599 comments) says:

    More of our language being perverted!

    Gay for the queers.
    Wicked for the good.
    Esteemed for the disreputable.

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  7. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    its a shame McCain didnt win the Presidency. He backed the “League of Democracies”. Sounds like a good idea to me.

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  8. Banana Llama (1,105 comments) says:

    “The committee said New Zealand should “consider relinquishing” the use of Tasers because the weapons could cause life-threatening injuries and severe pain”

    Any weapon can do that and anything can be a weapon, may as well have police smothered in bubble wrap.

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  9. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    Horses shit and fart all over the place, think of the carbon footprint!.

    If that’s the case I’d be more worried about my own footprints.

    Why don’t police use NZ inventions? The live deer capture nets might work.

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  10. MT_Tinman (2,790 comments) says:

    I’m with Keith on this one.

    Far better to blow the bastards to kingdom come than just incapacitate them.

    Maybe Keith will do something useful for once in his life – offer himself as a practice target.

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  11. Right of way is Way of Right (1,125 comments) says:

    I also support the call to ban Tasers. All they do is clog up the courts, and fill up the jails. Far better to bury the criminals. There’s no appeals process for a 5.56 mm round from a bushmaster!

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  12. david (2,482 comments) says:

    Power’s way is clear.

    “Dear UN HRC, we have considered relinquishing Tazers and have rejected the proposal. Yours etc Simon”

    Complied with UN suggestion …. check
    Retained Tazers ………………… check
    Feel good ………………………… check
    Moral victory ……………………. check

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  13. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    The UN and its opinions are as relevant as Phil Goff.

    This is the same UN that appointed Gadaffi chairman of the peace committee.

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  14. MikeMan (171 comments) says:

    Fine pull the Tazers and issue Street Sweepers instead.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armsel_Striker

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  15. Rufus (606 comments) says:

    Can we please have Tasers at home to protect against intruders?

    Makes sense – and with their cameras, would be a good way of determining whether or not the tasering was done in defence of self and/or property.

    Rufus

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  16. Jeff83 (765 comments) says:

    I am a lefty with liberal social views.

    I support Tasers, police’s job is dangerous at times and they work and generally are not life threatning. If I completely lost the plot for some reason I would much rather be tazered than shot to death.

    The two conditions I call for is a truely independent police complaints authority, currently its really a joke (from people I know experiences) and the second is that the video footage recorded by the tasers should be readily avaliable so as to ensure they are properly used. On those two conditions I definitely support their use.

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  17. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    Can’t have that Rufus, it would discriminate against thieves.

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  18. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    The UN is about as “esteemed” a body as Keith Locke walking down Newmarket wearing only paint.

    Great Simpsons quote: [Principal Skinner to childrens' mock-UN] “Order, order! Do you kids wanna be like the real U.N., or do you just want to squabble and waste time?”

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  19. Komata (971 comments) says:

    The UN’s directive reminds me that, many years ago, a sci-fi story (title now long forgotten) told of a very clever Russian ‘peacenick’ who had managed to neutralise all the world’s armaments – guns, nuclear weapons, missiles – the whole circus. Understandably he was called-up before the local KGB Commissar and asked what had happened. Truthfully, he explained his actions then turned and walked out through the office door, supposing, niavely, he was ‘free’ – all the world’s weapons had been neutralised. The final sentence was revealing: ‘ The Commissar picked up his revolver to shoot the departing figure, but the ‘click’ of the hammer told him it was useless. Throwing the weapon to one side he picked up his chair, throwing it on the ground so that it splintered in a heap. Snatching-up a peice of broken chair-leg, he raced outside after the retreating figure, still walking away from him, while yelling at his subordinates to come to him immedicately . . . ‘

    The UN evidently believes that only things that go ‘bang’ or ‘zzzzzzzzzzzzzt’ are dangerous, although it could equally be argued that if ANYTHING can be deemed to be a ‘weapon’ and if that is the case and said ‘weapon’ is thus controlled (by the UN – of course) then you could have an interesting situation where a fish, or an ear of corn could be ‘constrained’ or ‘banned’.

    If governments accept such foolishness (and most of them seem to be inclined to) does this suggest another method of ‘control’ that could appeal to the socialists who run the UN?

    Don’t laugh – it’s stupid enough to be possible. . .

    (Oh, hello Helun – nice to see you lurking . . . )

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  20. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Good. The UN is not a world government to be unthinkingly bowed down to.

    And Tasers are good for everybody COMPARED TO THE ALTERNATIVES.
    (1) Nutters who attack cops live to ponder their actions.
    (2) Cops don’t have to spend years contemplating whether they should have done something else rather than gunned down the nutters.

    All of the UN/other criticism of tasers seems to come from an unspoken assumption that police will use tasers as an alternative to talking to people, which seems ridiculous IMHO when talking about this country. As long as tasers are used as an alternative to guns I have absolutely no problem with them.

    (though TBH I have no objection to the taser being used as an alternative to the baton either. the option of NOT attacking a cop is always available to every citizen… )

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  21. excusesofpuppets (133 comments) says:

    “The Greens would also like us to be back on horses (not pushbikes, rubber tyres)”.

    Love this comment!

    I agree with the use of Tasers. Those who don’t agree clearly have not been in situations that clearly warranted the use of a firearm in order to protect themselves or others.

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  22. Captain Neurotic (206 comments) says:

    Where the fuck is the commonsense in this world?!

    My ten cents…

    Firstly, I agree in humour that killing a criminal with a bushmaster would achieve several things such as less court time and less people in jail and less bad people.

    However being realistic, patrols with firearms are not the anwser for the police and not because I am adverse to violence but the use of a firearm can do real pyschological damage to a person – also it turns into a very slippery slope as the use of a firearm becomes the first option which flairs up the situation and prevents the police from using their best weapon – their ability to talk and hopefully defuse a situation.

    Also – the use of firearms attracts the otherside to be more adverse to firearms…

    For those who moan about the dangers of tasers – Allow me to firstly apoligise…. IF YOU HAVE A FREKIN HEART PROBLEM OR THINK THAT IT IS INHUMANE TO BE TASERED – HERE IS A HINT…. DONT COMMIT ANY FUCKING CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  23. Poliwatch (335 comments) says:

    Let’s also arm the UN Peace Keepers around the world with garlands of flowers – I am sure the Fiji military (as a big contributor of peacekeeping forces) will buy into that.

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  24. GPT1 (2,042 comments) says:

    Reason #9146 in support of the conclusion that the UN is a joke. Seriously, people are being beaten and killed in Iran for having the termerity to ask that their votes be counted and they’re worried about the NZ police being able to defend themselves with a less-lethal option? Ludicrous. In fact the hysteria surrounding tasers has almost got to the point where it is easier for police to use firearms than tasers. Dumb.

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  25. JiveKitty (869 comments) says:

    And the UN edges closer to complete irrelevancy with another ridiculous outburst.

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  26. Chris2 (704 comments) says:

    Does anyone have a link for the UN report?

    I’m looking for a good lunchtime chortle.

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  27. starboard (2,447 comments) says:

    The murder and manslaughter of about 100 people a year makes New Zealand one of the most violent countries in the developed world, according to a new independent report.
    New Zealand has been given a “D” rating on a report card prepared by the New Zealand Institute, because of its high rates of violent deaths and child abuse.

    during their ” observations ” the UN toerags must of missed this report….dickheads , complete waste of time and resources.

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  28. MIKMS (163 comments) says:

    A police officer with a taser on his belt looks just as authoritive as a policeman with a pistol, tasers are good, no unnecessary deaths – if a person who is tasered dies from it well it’s their own fault for getting in the way or acting in a stupid manner

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  29. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    Who actually voted for the UN please.

    Thats right not one single member of the UN was elected into it by any citizen of any nation. Its the single most un deomocratic organisation on the planet.

    That the Far Left Loonie Locke supports them is evidence enough of the stupidity of their declaration.

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  30. Fisiani (854 comments) says:

    Keth Locke is like a compass that predictably points North when it is South.
    Sensible people know to reverse everything he says to reach the truth. His unerring wrongness actually gives a reliable pointer to veracity when reversed.

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  31. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    I had a second thought……

    Fuck the tasers and fuck the horses…..

    Arm every single police officer with the biggest most powerful mother fucker of a gun one can find…. AND……
    Make it mandatory that every vehicle sold in New Zealand is a HUMMER!!!

    In other words….. Fuck the UN and Fuck the Greens!!!

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  32. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    [Michaels]: “Make it mandatory that every vehicle sold in New Zealand is a [insert brand here]”

    Labour & the Greens not far enough left for you? ;-)

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  33. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    Christ first we have the worlds crappiest drivers, then we change the give way laws to make them crappy and confused drivers. Now you want them to be crappy confused drivers in pretend tanks.

    Do you work for a government department Michaels?

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  34. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    If we live in a crime free world, I’d agree with the UN.

    The UN however, live in an alternate universe.

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  35. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    TUT TUT TUT Murray!!!

    NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

    Just disagree with everything the Greens and the UN say.
    Makes life simple that way, the say white, I say black.
    It has a 99% success rate.

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  36. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    Yes but you want to put them in hummers?

    I’m ok because i know where I can get my hands on a 113. The rest of you are in trouble though.

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  37. TimG_Oz (883 comments) says:

    UN calls for no Tasers – however they continually blocked the call that Suicide Bombing was a war crime. Go figure…

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  38. Jack5 (4,220 comments) says:

    Captain Neurotic posted at 12.29pm:

    …patrols with firearms are not the anwser for the police and not because I am adverse to violence but the use of a firearm can do real pyschological damage to a person – also it turns into a very slippery slope as the use of a firearm becomes the first option which flairs up the situation and prevents the police from using their best weapon – their ability to talk and hopefully defuse a situation…

    Tell that to the family of the wounded Indian shopkeeper left to die while firearms were being brought to the scene for police.

    And if there was a “slippery slope” wouldn’t the police who now carry pistols on foot patrol in our international airports have shot someone by now?

    The police in NZ were armed with revolvers until late in the 19th century. The country was then a law-abiding, bicultural country, whose citizens respected authority.

    Where else are police now unarmed as they are in NZ? In Britain, bobbies on the beat may not carry guns, but there are almost as many police about toting submachine guns. In Norway, which I understand was the only other European country whose police were not routinely armed, has moved to keeping firearms in all patrol cars. The NZ police union wants to follow suit.

    If you don’t want armed police in NZ, Captain Neurotic, get about at nights and preach pacifism to the mobs of young thugs. They’ll listen to you of course. Just keep your insurance paid up.

    I want the police armed to provide protection for citizens, otherwise there will be more cases of police helping armed confrontations, as at the Indian’s liquor store and at the incident in the rural North Island where a woman seems to have been virtually told “sorry we can’t help” when there was a violent intruder in her house.

    Also the police, as decent citizens, should be afforded sufficient protection to do their work.

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  39. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    For no other reason than they are big gas guzzlers.
    Very sorry though, don’t mean to make it sound all nanny state :)

    So I will compromise, you have a choice of vehicle as long as it 5 litres or more. AND ROARS!!

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  40. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Justice Minister Simon Power has also hit back at suggestions by the international body that our criminal justice system discriminates against Maori.

    So reading between the lines here:
    What the UNHRC are REALLY saying is that the use of tasers by police against ‘Moari’ (read that minority ethnic group) is the problem here.

    And thus conversely, if you’re white middle class (and male?) then being tasered by the cops would likely be acceptable.
    Perhaps if we responded with the qualification that “no Maori would be tasered” then we would get the big thumbs up from the UNHRC?

    Maybe we could run it by Helun in the first instance to get her feel on the likely response.

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  41. serge (108 comments) says:

    Of course the UNHRC is against the use of tasers or any weapon which may cause any harm to murderers, terrorists, robbers and the like, these are their proteges, not law abiding people who are their enemies. Why do taxpayers are compelled to pay these cretins a membership fee?

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  42. Captain Neurotic (206 comments) says:

    Jack5 – I apoligise if i came across anti-police and anti-law abbiding citizens who have their lives destroyed by criminals! This is not me at all! I have huge respect for the police and the shitheads they have to deal with, not to mention the danger they face – and it is good that with tasers we are making the playing field more even

    But… I dunno… I think I still need a bit more convincing for Police to be armed 24/7. I know a few cops and have had long debates with them over this policy with the majority of them preferring not to be armed for the dangers i mentioned.

    Also police on patrols in the ready response vehilces have access to both glock 17′s and M4′s so it is like they are going into a situation armed with bannana’s…

    The way i look at it is that in many situations do not require a firearm and the presence of one can make a situation very tense and destroy ‘hearts and minds’.

    However on the otherhand – Never bring a rifle to a tank fight, if the others have got firearms – bring it on

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  43. Sean (294 comments) says:

    The police were given pepper spray a while back, with the usual assurances that there would be training in its use, there would be a strict policy about its correct use and there would be thorough and open investigations where its misuse was alleged. If you know anything about the police policy regarding the use of pepper spray, it is only to be used to prevent harm to oneself or another. It is specifically forbidden to use it to induce compliance. Yet we saw news footage of its indiscriminate use for that purpose in Dunedin. We read news articles about its use by a group of officers on a person in a cell.

    And now you want to give them tasers?

    Fine, but I hope for your sake you’re not in the wrong place at the wrong time when one of the inadequately trained cro-magnons we employ as police decides that policy doesn’t apply…

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  44. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Good to see the UNHRC spend some time away from their busy schedule of vilification of Israel and support for Hamas et al. Even UN bureaucrat haters and wreckers must enjoy some workplace variety, so turning their sights on little ‘ol NZ is just the ticket.

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  45. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    Maybe the UN would be happy if we blew up suspects Tim.

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  46. A1kmm (91 comments) says:

    Just to go back to the source:

    16. While taking note of the assurances by the State party whereby tasers are only to be used
    by trained and certified staff and only when the officer has an honest belief that the subject is
    capable of carrying out the threat posed and that the use of the taser is warranted, the Committee
    is deeply concerned about the introduction of these weapons in the New Zealand police. The
    Committee is concerned that the use of these weapons causes severe pain constituting a form of
    torture, and that in some cases it may even cause death. In addition, the Committee is concerned at
    reports whereby during the trial period tasers were predominantly used on Maoris and youths.
    (arts. 2 and 16)
    The State party should consider relinquishing the use of electric taser weapons, the
    impact of which on the physical and mental state of targeted persons would appear
    to violate articles 2 and 16 of the Convention.

    I think that the question of whether tasers should be used, and in what context, needs to be properly examined. I get the feeling that the way they are mostly used now is for intimidation by the police. The reason this intimidation works is mainly because people know that tasers are extremely painful. So it really comes down to ‘do what I say or I will deliberately inflict a lot of pain on you’, rather than being used as a bona fide tool to immobilise people posing a genuine risk. Put whatever spin you like on it, but that is *torture*. Due to the limited range of a taser, it is unlikely to be of much use against genuinely dangerous armed criminals.

    I think it is almost certainly untrue that tasers are displacing guns. Tasers are called ‘less-lethal’, and as the UN notes, are used (or at least presented) a lot more indiscriminately than police guns would be. Police were out of line in the Wallace shooting, but tasers probably wouldn’t have helped there anyway.

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  47. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Aikmm, is putting a suspect in the back of the police car ‘torture’? What about handcuffs? Surely incarceration in any form is physiological torture? If one followed your ‘torture’ angle to its uber-liberal conclusion we would have total anarchy. Perhaps that’s the plan.

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  48. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    “whereby during the trial period tasers were predominantly used on Maoris and youths.”

    Gee, I wonder if this might have something to do with Maori and youth being the wankers who are committing the crimes?

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  49. Rex Widerstrom (5,125 comments) says:

    redqueen summarises the argument advanced by most sensible* people in favour of tasers when she says:

    While I am not, personally, a fan of tasers they represent a significantly better option than being shot

    Absolutely true, which is why I’d be in favour of them if the police force were not a bunch of over-testosteroned thugs who do things like try to tazer a 12 year old boy. Presumably if they weren’t armed with a tazer they’d have shot him, then?

    For that logic to hold up, the number of tazering incidents would have to be roughly equal to (or less than) the number of police shootings before tazers were introduced. But are they? No.

    Because when a cop is pointing a gun at someone, their thought process goes like this: “I’d love to go all ‘Dirty Harry’ like I seen in the movies and plug this guy, but then there’d be an internal investigation, a coronial inquest and all that other stuff. So I better control myself”.

    Whereas when he’s holding a tazer it’s: “No way this will kill him (unless he has a pacemaker or something) so there’s no accounatbility issues, and I don’t like the way he’s talking to me, so… yeehaaa!”.

    * Supporters of tazers other than those who get off on the idea of police having a licence to torture.

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  50. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    Police dogs must be a bit of a problem for the UN too. And any sort of restraint or apprehension. Unless of course they take a balanced non-discriminatory approach.

    If they have to taser a part-Maori maybe they should make sure they also taser a part-Pakeha to keep it fair.

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  51. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    “I think that the question of whether tasers should be used, and in what context, needs to be properly examined. ”

    I think its the business of each nation to adress these issues themselves. Not the job of the UNelected World Government.

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  52. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    BB racist!

    Bad white mofo.

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  53. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Rex

    A 12 year old who was angry, irrational and had a fucking knife!

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  54. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    Do you knowm they liked it Rex? How so, you were there, you asked them? What was it, or are you just making shit up maybe?

    If they like it so much why have they only done it once? Why aren’t they out cruising the schools tazering the tweens for sport?

    Rex?

    See BB thats why I just blip over comments like that, they have no rational basis.

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  55. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    krazykiwi 3:12 pm,

    Aikmm, is putting a suspect in the back of the police car ‘torture’? What about handcuffs? Surely incarceration in any form is physiological torture? If one followed your ‘torture’ angle to its uber-liberal conclusion we would have total anarchy. Perhaps that’s the plan.

    GS (I can’t use KK as people might think I’m talking to myself), surely you’re not suggesting there is a socialist/Marxist ‘plan’ to encourage something approaching global anarchy?
    And you cannot be implying that the UN are somehow linked to this same agenda?

    Now repeat after me – “There is no global conspiracy, there is no …”

    There you go, feel better now? I can see we need to adjust you meds to bring you back in line with ‘global think’. This original thinking is so overrated, you know; we’re trying to help people give it up.

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  56. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Kris, ok meds adjusted. what was i thinking!? btw, just call me krazy if you like. i did kinda wonder about krazykiwi and KrisK as I was called ‘kk’ a few year back on joining Mr Farrar’s shark tank.

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  57. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    krazykiwi 4:22 pm,

    Just as an aside:
    Are you no longer part of GetStaffed, and hence the name change and the disappearance of the link to the business?

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  58. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    O/T: Kris, I’m still registered as an IT contractor on the getstaffed website. Quite a cool concept IMO. One of the owners of that business is a mate.. and he asked me to change my handle lest my views be though of as those of his business!

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  59. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Did you know that “UN calls for no tasers” is an anagram of “Unsafer locals snort”?

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  60. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    That sounds even more suspicious Ryan, is it part of the subliminal subversion socialist subplot?

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  61. dad4justice (7,406 comments) says:

    “subliminal subversion socialist subplot?”

    Interesting Petey, is that the name of the cause that madman Russian Putin and his deranged gang of sinister thugs are teaching the new age generations of children that Stalin was a nice man? Regarding the corrupt UN, have they found that missing $10 billion yet? I know a local cop called Anton who is not happy he must use a tazer instead of the 9 mil lead pill. Eh super cop when will we see you notch up the third victim you head case Dutch scone doer?

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  62. Rex Widerstrom (5,125 comments) says:

    big bruv suggests:

    A 12 year old who was angry, irrational and had a fucking knife!

    You telling me that, protected with a stab vest and backed up by two or three of your friends, you couldn’t overpower a 12 year old, bb? I certainly could.

    So little kids are beyong police capacity to deal with without resorting to a tazer… so, it seems, are elderly men and pregnant women for such offences as refusing to sign a ticket?

    And Murray, if you can come up wth statistics that show police shootings have decreased in any jurisdiction where tazers were introduced I might just believe you. Meanwhile, here’s some more police definitely not enjoying tazering and beating people. Oh no, not at all.

    But you keep blipping away, Murray, till you stand up for your rights and are on the receiving end.

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  63. dad4justice (7,406 comments) says:

    Fuck the tazer said Anton give me a machine gun!

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  64. sooty (49 comments) says:

    Yep! ban Tazers. Do away with them. Give every police man a Glock. Then shoot the darling little sod’s with that and see what they would prefer. A bit of electricty or a bit of lead.

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  65. dad4justice (7,406 comments) says:

    Anton a front line cop has already killed two with his glock.

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  66. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Rex, even a 12 year old can get lucky with a knife

    Personally I have been stabbed wasting my time working for the NZ government but I am very happy that big tough wankers like you are out there., if I had known that I would have retired a lot earlier.

    Sign up son and take your chance. You wont though Rex typing is easy. Fuck off until you have been stabbed and shot at and then offer an opinion on the use of lethal force or better still join the UN because you are just as relevant

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  67. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    Could we please withdraw from the UN? They are a bloated, corrupt, far left organisation.

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  68. Rex Widerstrom (5,125 comments) says:

    I’m a little past signing up now, Pauleastbay, but I’ve been trained because I used to work as a bouncer when I was much younger and a lot fitter. I’m not a “big tough wanker” (presumably that means someone with a particularly well-developed forearm) but I have confronted peoplke carrying knives on three occasions and in each one no one was harmed. I was taught that, far from being “tough”, the idea was to subdue, not attack.

    I’ve also had a gun pointed at me once. It wasn’t fired but it was loaded, and my predecessor had in fact taken off to Thailand after he was shot while on the job (I found that out after taking on the job, needless to say). It was all to do with a turf war between gangs on K Road in the early 90s.

    So how about we breathe through the nose and address the issue, hmmm? Which is that cops (aside from specially trained, closely monitored units made up of experienced officers, like the AOS) shouldn’t be armed with tazers or guns because their tempers are as short as yours.

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  69. Robert Black (423 comments) says:

    New Zealand police need to carry hand-guns not bloody tasers or pepper spray.

    A cop will be killed soon by one othose marauding brown teenage clouds.

    The UN also said we have too many Maoris in prison.

    So what the f do they suggest we do with a Maori criminal?

    Shoot them like in China I say.

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  70. dad4justice (7,406 comments) says:

    “Shoot them like in China I say.’

    And sell their body parts. FFS get a grip.

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  71. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    “You telling me that, protected with a stab vest and backed up by two or three of your friends, you couldn’t overpower a 12 year old, bb? I certainly could.”

    Oh right!, so the cops should be forced to deal nicely with this little shit and if they happen to get stabbed or cut (you and I have had some of the same jobs in our youth Rex, we both know how much permanent damage can be done with a knife or other sharp object) then that is just a part of the job is it?

    I value the life of a policeman far more than I do of some low life criminal, it seems (and sorry if I have not read you the right way) that you seem to agree with that wanker Greg Newbold who said that cops being assaulted was just tough luck, if one or two vermin (Stephen Wallace) happen to be killed then that is a price I am happy to pay when the option is the death of a policeman.

    As for overpowering a 12 year old, yes, I could do it easily.

    Constable Bruv: Put down the knife you little shit
    Criminal Scum: Fuck off pig
    Constable Bruv: Put the knife down or I will taser you.
    Criminal Scum: Come and get the knife bro, I will fucking waste you.
    Constable Bruv: Last chance arsehole, put the knife down or I will shoot.
    Criminal Scum: Fuck yo….argghhhhhhhh

    See, simple, criminal scum arrested and nobody gets hurt (well, nobody that matters)

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  72. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Rex, I don’t buy the line that we shouldn’t give tasers to cops because they might enjoy using them. You’re trying to determine and generalise motivations. That logic would see us abolish teaching because most teachers only take up those professions because they were bullied as kids. Those who ask join the armed forces should be sent to anger management courses then rejected. Would-be builders should be counseled into another occupation because they clearly enjoy dangerous power tools and almost certainly have poor taste in beer. And so on.

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  73. Robert Black (423 comments) says:

    The problem with lil ol NZ is there are just way too many PC Greenie Left Wingers, whatever, this country needs to be seized by the neck and shaken, everyone complains about the increasing violent crime yet can’t even agree that the police need to have more protection and power.

    Do you think in China there are marauding gangs of teenagers going around beating cops senseless, biting their lips off?

    The country needs to grow some. It is not the lil green farming paradise it used to be back in the 70′s.

    Go to Spain or China. Cops are respected/feared.

    I feel very safe here.

    Everyone does whether it is 4am in the city or walking down a deserted country road.

    People like you, Dad4justice, Luc Hansen just add to the problem.

    I hope John Key has the balls to clean the country up.

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  74. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Rex

    The specailist units do not attend incidents first, usually, one or two people attend first without any back up. these are the poeple confronted by weapons intiailly But reading this thread, sensible people have commented that even the idiots would prefer to be made unconcious than made dead

    You obviously have no knowledge of anything remotely operational but are happy to pass comments like-a bunch of over-testosteroned thugs who do things…………..

    You are sad, but you sound like a true legend in your mind so that what is important, ..

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  75. Rex Widerstrom (5,125 comments) says:

    big bruv: You start off talking about a 12 year old, then you move to talk about cops being assaulted by “low life criminals”. That’s two different things. If you were a cop I’d certainly expect you to deal with a 12 yo child differently to the way you’d deal with an adult. Or are you going to tell me a 12 yo can make decisions as rationally and with as complete knowledge of the consequences as an adult? because if you are, then I’d ask you why we stop them having sex at that age, for instance.

    krazykiwi: I’m not nsuggesting cops be denied tasers because they enjoy using them (though many undoubtedly do) but because they have a record of using them inappropriately (see links above) or in dangerous and inappropriate situations where people end up being hurt or killed. And because they use them to force compliance, not just to protect themselves and other people. No cop is going to shoot a person with a gun to make them move on… a cop here in WA has been filmed tazering a drunk just to get him to shift from in front of the Magistrate’s Court.

    Pauleastbay: I appreciate specialist units don’t arrive first. The answer – more specialist units! Beat cops should never be first responders to an armed incident, simple as that. This need you have to launch ad hominems at people with whom you disgaree… I do hope you were never armed during your “work for the government”.

    Robert Black: Oh yes, those clouds of dark skinned marauders. And the packs of vicious chihuahua. Let’s not forget those dangerous chihuahua.

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  76. starboard (2,447 comments) says:

    Im the same as you Robert Black. I feel much safer walking pissed through Bangkok at 3 in the morning than walking through Christchurch city at night. Most other countries respect their police…even in good ole Thailand. Arm our coppers to the teeth, shoot the crim if he doesnt back down…bring back law and order to our once great little country.

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  77. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Rex.

    Of course low life criminals can be twelve years of age, Kurariki and the killers of James Bolger prove that.

    If our police are faced with a life threatening situation then I could not give a toss if the criminal is twelve or fifty.

    What is the minister of Police supposed to say to the wife or husband of a police officer killed by a twelve year old “don’t worry Mrs/Mr Smith, at least your husband/wife was killed by a minor who did not know what they were doing”

    There is no “different way” to deal with an idiot intent of causing you harm Rex, you use the most decisive and quickest form or action to disarm that person and keep yourself and the public safe, if that happened to be a taser or a gun then so be it.
    As I said before, it the option is a dead John Wharemako Gillies or a severely injured Nigel Hendrikse then I know what 99% of the New Zealand public would want.

    Again, I put it to you that you seem to support the words of Greg Newbold when he suggests that injury and death are just part of policeman’s life and they should get on with it, in other words you (and Newbold) seem more concerned at the possible injury or death of low life criminals than you are about the safety and security of our Police.

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  78. dion (95 comments) says:

    > “The Government should take heed of this esteemed international body.”

    What would Pol Pot do, Keith?

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  79. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    LOL so probably the only (notionally) unarmed police force on the planet should give up tasers. I wonder what advice give other countries?

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  80. slightlyrighty (2,448 comments) says:

    Rex.

    Not one of your examples refers to the New Zealand Police. All the examples you refer to are from overseas juridictions where police are armed at all times.

    If NZ police are in a situation where a firearm needs to be deployed, then we are in a serious situation. These do arise in the course of day to day policing. As I understand it, in NZ, Police now have the option of using a Tazer in situations wher a firearm would have been the only option in the past. As I also understand it, the same rules of engagement exist for tazers as for firearms.

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  81. Jack5 (4,220 comments) says:

    Rex Widerstrom in a 3.30 post described the police as “over-testosteroned thugs”.

    He questioned Australian police tasering a 12-year-old schoolboy who was threatening teachers with a knife.

    At 5.30 Widerstrom posted:

    You telling me that, protected with a stab vest and backed up by two or three of your friends, you couldn’t overpower a 12 year old, bb (Kiwiblog poster Big Bruv)? I certainly could.

    At 6.20 Widerstrom posted:

    …I have confronted peoplke carrying knives on three occasions and in each one no one was harmed.

    Is Widerstrom, a former NZ First employee, really some amateur, late-middle-age Rambo skilled at disarming knife-wielders, or is he just still pissed off about his big brush with the West Australian police and convinced he can do anything better than them?

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  82. cubit (356 comments) says:

    This is the membership of the esteemed committee

    Mr. Abdelfattah AMORTunisia 31.12.2010
    Mr. Lazhari BOUZID Algeria 31.12.2012
    Mr. Prafullachandra Natwarlal BHAGWATI India 31.12.2010
    Ms. Christine Chanet France 31.12.2010
    Mr. Mahjoub El-Haiba Morocco 31.12.2012
    Mr. Ahmad Amin FATHALLA Egypt 31.12.2012
    Mr. Yuji IWASAWA Japan 31.12.2010
    Ms. Hellen KELLER Switzerland31.12.2010
    Mr. Rajsoomer LALLAH Mauritius 31.12.2012
    Ms. Zonke Zanele MAJODINA South Africa 31.12.2010
    Ms. Iulia Antoanella MOTOC Romania 31.12.2010
    Mr. Michael O’FLAHERTY Ireland 21.12.2012
    Mr. José Luis PEREZ SANCHEZ-CERRO Perú 31.12.2010
    Mr. Rafael RIVAS POSADA Colombia 31.12.2012
    Sir Nigel RODLEY United Kingdom 31.12.2012
    Mr. Fabián Omar SALVIOLI Argentina 31.12.2012
    Mr. Krister THELIN Sweden 31.12.2012
    Ms. Ruth WEDGWOOD United States of America

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  83. Guy Fawkes (702 comments) says:

    The UN is a complete waste of time.

    Anyone in the know about Algerian history will understand how brutal the regime there was, and still is.

    Colombia is unsafe. India is a death trap. Argentina is marginally safer that Brazil. Romania, are you kidding?

    South Africa the country where flame throwers attached to Beemers isn’t uncommon.

    All crusty sock puppets and peurile wank stains.

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  84. Lutzie (63 comments) says:

    cubit (266) Says:
    March 29th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
    This is the membership of the esteemed committee…

    What’s your point exactly cubit?

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  85. Lutzie (63 comments) says:

    Guy Fawkes
    India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, Argentina is doing very well, though Brazil is the real powerhouse of South America. Strange to write off whole countries with one-liners of so little merit.
    What about Switzerland, France, Japan, Ireland, Sweden, the UK and the USA?
    And based on your closing comment, you seem to have a masturbation fixation Guy Fawkes

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  86. Rex Widerstrom (5,125 comments) says:

    Jack5 asks:

    At 6.20 Widerstrom posted:

    …I have confronted peoplke carrying knives on three occasions and in each one no one was harmed.

    Is Widerstrom, a former NZ First employee, really some amateur, late-middle-age Rambo skilled at disarming knife-wielders

    Nowadays, hell no. By the time I got up from behind my desk I’d have run out of puff. I’m talking 15, 20 years ago when I was a much younger and fitter man. Disarming someone wielding a knife isn’t that difficult if you’re taught how, as I was.

    or is he just still pissed off about his big brush with the West Australian police

    Yes, wouldn’t you be? Or is your clearly blind worship of the police such that you wouldn’t mind being wronfully accused of a heinous crime and locked up for it?

    <blockquote…and convinced he can do anything better than them?

    Yeah, pretty much. Claremont serial killer – not found. Murderer of Corryn Rayney – not found (and husband, a former state prosecutor, suing the plods for stating that he dun it when they had no evidence and can’t bring a prosecution), the murder of leicia Wilson (they’ve had 30 years to fiugure that one out)… not to mention who really commited the crimes for which Button, Mallard, the Mickelbergs and others were wrongfully imprisoned. That’s just off the top of my head. So yeah, give me a brewery and ask me to organise a piss up and I reckon I could do better.

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  87. scanner (340 comments) says:

    We are paying the price for allowing the Keith Locke’s of the world to gain a foothold in our decision making system.
    We only have ourselves to blame as we have sat by and watched with complete apathy, the takeover of our justice, education and political system by Keith and his friends.
    The values this country was founded on are now used as toilet paper by an ever increasing number of people, most of whom have no roots in NZ.
    Don’t blame Keith, we need shoulder some of the blame ourselves, we are the ones who greased the halls of power to allow country to be controlled by these people.
    Still, it would also be great to see Locke dancing around on the end of a Taser.

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  88. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    Well if Keith prefers that the scumbags get a bullet in the chest as the first option instead of a taser, I can go with that…

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