Southpark Censorship

April 25th, 2010 at 2:42 pm by David Farrar

Once again Comedy Central has censored Southpark. Four years ago they banned the show from being able to show from showing a harmless depiction of Muhammad (was just him giving someone a fish) in their Cartoon Wars episodes.

The episodes were about appeasing people who threaten violence is wrong, but it didn’t work. This time in episode 201 Comedy Central have even refused to allow the name of Muhammad, after the Southpark creators cunningly discussed him onside a bear costume.

This has nothing to do with religious tolerance. Comedy Central have allowed the show to show Jesus Christ defecating on an American flag. Their decisions are purely appeasement in the face of threatened violence from extremists. The sad thing is they don’t realise that what they do, encourages the extremists. It shows threatening violence wins.

In similar news, Reuters reports:

A Dutch court has acquitted a Muslim group of inciting hatred with a cartoon that questions the Holocaust, in the latest case to provoke debate about freedom of speech in the Netherlands.

The Arab European League (AEL), which published the cartoon on its website, was cleared of insulting Jews because it was not aiming to dispute the Holocaust but to highlight perceived double standards in .

And that is the right ruling,

The AEL cartoon shows two men, beneath an ‘Auschwitz’ sign and beside several bodies, saying the victims might not have been Jewish but the target was six million – the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.

The AEL said the cartoon was part of a campaign it launched in 2006 to show “the double morals of the West during the Danish cartoon affair.” The image came with a disclaimer on the website saying the AEL did not support the views of the cartoon.

Except the AEL have been proven wrong about the double morals. No one has been killed, or even threatened over their Holocaust cartoon. There have been no burning of flags or storming of embassies.

The mad President of Iran tried to make a similar claim a few years ago by hosting a Holocaust cartoon competition. To his great dismay dozens of Jewish cartoonists submitted entries, rather than protest against it.

The best response to is this:

After Comedy Central cut a portion of a episode following a death threat from a radical Muslim group, Seattle cartoonist Molly Norris wanted to counter the fear. She has declared May 20th “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day.”

“As a cartoonist I just felt so much passion about what had happened I wanted to kind of counter Comedy Central’s message they sent about feeling afraid,” Norris said.

Norris has asked other artists to submit drawings of any religious figure to be posted as part of Citizens Against Citizens Against Humor (CACAH) on May 20th.

On her website Norris explains this is not meant to disrespect any religion, but rather meant to protect people’s right to express themselves.

The best way to stop the Islamic extremists threatening violence unless you censor, is if the response to their threats is to triple and quadruple the number of outlets who show the cartoon.

It should be a point of principle for every media outlet in the free world, to show such images, to show that threats will not work.

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61 Responses to “Southpark Censorship”

  1. Jack5 (4,906 comments) says:

    But who would have been the heroes if German editors of the 1930s had refused to print or reprint cartoons that were grossly offensive to Jews, and Freemasons, and Gypsies?

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  2. Graeme Edgeler (3,277 comments) says:

    Except the AEL have been proven wrong about the double morals. No one has been killed, or even threatened over their Holocaust cartoon.

    Except AEL was charged with a criminal offence, and no-one behind, or who republished, a Mohammed cartoon was. Seems like a double standard to me.

    [DPF: I agree they should not have been charged, but they is 1000 tims better off than the Danish cartoonists who live in fears of their lives with actual attempts to kill them]

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  3. Swiftman the infidel (329 comments) says:

    When, oh when, will Israel have the courage to nuke Mecca thereby proving that Allah does not exist and that Mahommed was an insane pedophile?

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  4. mavxp (494 comments) says:

    So David, can we expect your blog to participate on 20 May? And anyone else with a blog or newspaper reading this post?

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  5. Positan (385 comments) says:

    Some years ago, I offended an Islamic who, working on a mate’s computer, saw an e-mail I’d sent which contained photos of the Islamic demonstrations in London in response to the Pope’s statement that “Islam was a violent religion.” The photos showed obviously incited Islamics, most dressed in traditional apparel, brandishing placards which variously called for the death of the Pope by beheading or otherwise, which seemed to uphold the truth of what the Pope had said.

    The Islamic remonstrated very strongly with me, totally oblivious to the contradictions expressed, maintaining that I had insulted Islam. It was absolutely impossible to reason with him, full-stop. He further believed that it wasn’t wrong for him to enter my mate’s email folder and examine its contents without permission or authorisation.

    From that moment, I have seen the self same dogmatism evinced in every other instance of an Islamic’s perception. I do not believe it is possible to reason with them. The mind boggles at what would have been the reaction if the detainees at Auschwitz had been Islamics, and their legitimacy had been questioned in the same way as did the cartoon.

    To Islamics, every post is a winning post – and the only eventual resolution to our differences is going to be reached after far more bloodshed than we’ve ever seen. You never concede anything to such people – you treat them with the same ruthlessness as their own leadership treats them. The Dutch court’s finding might have been right for people of unaffected democratic views – but in this instance I think it failed, because it didn’t appreciate the signal extremism that attended the action. The test? How would identical circumstances, but reversed, have been judged in an Islamic country?

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  6. MIKMS (164 comments) says:

    I originally thought it was a really good joke but this actually just the most pathetic bit of censorship I’ve heard for a long time – what the creators should do is release the episode to a country that won’t censor it and then people can just stream from there or ‘leak’ the episode

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  7. Whaleoil (766 comments) says:

    I will be participating and will host anyone’s drawings of Muhammad on 20 May.

    Cultural Terrorism must be opposed at every step.

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  8. Inventory2 (10,181 comments) says:

    This has nothing to do with religious tolerance. Comedy Central have allowed the show to show Jesus Christ defecating on an American flag. Their decisions are purely appeasement in the face of threatened violence from extremists.

    Bollocks DPF. When Christians protested about the “bleeding Mary” episode, everyone told them to HTFU. This is complete double standard. Christians are an easy target because by and large, they’re NON-violent.

    [DPF: Try reading what I said. There are no double standards by the Southpark creators. The comedy channel management though are guilty of double standards - that is my exact point - they are giving in to violence]

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  9. MIKMS (164 comments) says:

    as will I – if they didn’t censor Jesus or Moses then it’s pathetic

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  10. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Southpark is an interesting one. It is always funny listening to people that have all this faux outrage at the offensive material and then explaining to them that the point the creators are making is actually similar to their own!.
    Personally while I find their approach a bit much at times, I’m not offended by it, it is par for the coarse for that style of satire.
    The Christian music episode was classic, because it is basically true, then they come out and attack atheists and it is equally true.
    Basically they are not attacking anyone that doesn’t deserve it, and while it is crass I think it would be harder to make the commentary they do without it.
    People need to get over themselves, personally I think the sort of crap that people like PZ Meyers entertains is a lot more destructive (he doesn’t like South Park because they poke fun at him)
    Intellectual bigotry that he spouts on his blog “Pharyngula” http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/index.php?page=4 is far more harmful than the creators of Southpark holding up a big mirror.

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  11. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Southpark is an interesting one. It is always funny listening to people that have all this faux outrage at the offensive material and then explaining to them that the point the creators are making is actually similar to their own!.
    Personally while I find their approach a bit much at times, I’m not offended by it, it is par for the coarse for that style of satire.
    The Christian music episode was classic, because it is basically true, then they come out and attack atheists and it is equally true.
    Basically they are not attacking anyone that doesn’t deserve it, and while it is crass I think it would be harder to make the commentary they do without it.
    People need to get over themselves, personally I think the sort of crap that people like PZ Meyers entertains is a lot more destructive (he doesn’t like South Park because they poke fun at him)
    Intellectual bigotry that he spouts on his blog “Pharyngula” is far more harmful than the creators of Southpark holding up a big mirror.

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/index.php?page=4

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  12. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    test
    I submitted a comment and it disappeared :shock:

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  13. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Southpark is an interesting one. It is always funny listening to people that have all this faux outrage at the offensive material and then explaining to them that the point the creators are making is actually similar to their own!.
    Personally while I find their approach a bit much at times, I’m not offended by it, it is par for the coarse for that style of satire.
    The Christian music episode was classic, because it is basically true, then they come out and attack atheists and it is equally true.
    Basically they are not attacking anyone that doesn’t deserve it, and while it is crass I think it would be harder to make the commentary they do without it.
    People need to get over themselves, personally I think the sort of crap that people like PZ Meyers entertains is a lot more destructive (he doesn’t like South Park because they poke fun at him)
    Intellectual bigotry that he spouts on his blog “Pharyngula” is far more harmful than the creators of Southpark holding up a big mirror.

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  14. ben (2,414 comments) says:

    It would be nice to see Comedy Central stand up to extremism, but more often than not, private companies are not going to do so. The problem is that Comedy Central enjoys almost none of the benefits of opposing extremism, but bears all the costs. Saying no to terrorists, at the margin, is a principaled stand we moderates can all agree with and enjoy. But it’s Comedy Central that gets attacked if the extremists follow through.

    The CEO or President at CC that made this decision will be thinking about the safety of his staff and their families, and so on, and will quite correctly reason, I think, that risking one’s life to make a political point on behalf of an idea doesn’t make sense.

    The one entity large enough to make principled stands are governments, which internalise and perhaps more than internalise the benefits of standing up to terrorists by winning lots more votes and power should terrorists strike (even George W Bush was wildly popular in the months following 9/11).

    So while it would be nice if Comedy Central took one for the team, I can’t imagine it will generally happen.

    [DPF: The point is the costs should be shared. Rather than leave the Danish cartoonists to face attacks, every cartoonist in the world should have published a Muhammad cartoon]

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  15. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Here’s the link:

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/index.php?page=4

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  16. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Kiwi blog doesn’t like PZ Meyers link!!

    Go look at page 4

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  17. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    “I will be participating and will host anyone’s drawings of Muhammad on 20 May.”

    Good on you Whale. The islamofascists must be defeated at all costs.

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  18. LeftRightOut (622 comments) says:

    You mean this http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/index.php?page=4

    What’s your problem? Don’t think Jesus is funny?

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  19. starboard (2,492 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda (1142) Says:

    April 25th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    test
    I submitted a comment and it disappeared

    same…

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  20. Jack5 (4,906 comments) says:

    Sounds like there’s a Crusade going!

    What’s the alternate target in case there’s cloud over Mecca?

    The People’s Republic of China v. Google?

    We will blog them on the internet, we shall blog them on the MSM sites, we will blog them on the whale’s zone.

    Seriously, who is the target: the Islamic terrorists or the channels/publishers/editors who back off?

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  21. LeftRightOut (622 comments) says:

    Shunda do you mean this one?

    Other than not sharing your beliefs, what’s your beef with PZ? Because he’s an intellectual and you’re a gnat?

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  22. Swiftman the infidel (329 comments) says:

    Jack5 has a point. Start with the holy city of Medina to show we are serious about Mecca.

    In Iran their Archillies heel is Qom.

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  23. LeftRightOut (622 comments) says:

    this one?

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  24. Fletch (6,151 comments) says:

    You can’t blame Comedy Central for the censorship. Did you see the violent response they got from some Muslim group?

    Then, on Sunday, Revolutionmuslim.com, a radical Islamic website, reportedly posted an item about the South Park episode referencing Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker who was killed by a Muslim extremist for his 2004 short documentary Submission, about women, violence, and Islam. “We have to warn Matt and Trey that what they are doing is stupid and they will probably wind up like Theo van Gogh for airing this show,” said the post. “This is not a threat, but a warning of the reality of what will likely happen to them.” The site then featured a graphic photo of the mutilated filmmaker, and published the addresses of Comedy Central New York offices and the South Park production company in Los Angeles. Finally, it embedded a video of a radical Muslim preacher calling for the assassination of anyone who has “defamed” Muhammad which included photos of Parker, Stone, and van Gogh.

    Now, I agree this is a double standard of sorts. When Christians protested about the episode with Mary, no one gave a shit. Here, C4 even played the episode first out of spite.
    That’s because most Christians don’t threaten to kill you when you insult God. That just goes to show the difference between Christianity and the “religion of peace”.

    Looks like Comedy Central decided to play it safe, deciding that lampooning some groups is safer than others.

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  25. tom hunter (4,568 comments) says:

    It’s great when LRO can bring irony to a thread – but it will be better when the day dawns that he does so intentionally.

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  26. Stuart Mackey (337 comments) says:

    Fletch (1000) Says:
    April 25th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Looks like Comedy Central decided to play it safe, deciding that lampooning some groups is safer than others”

    Unfortunately its not playing safe, they need a history lesson; it was once said of appeasement that it was the process of feeding others to the croc first in the hope that you are the last one eaten. In this case its our basic freedom to speak our mind that is the first person to get eaten, which is a smart move on their part, freedom of speech is our greatest weapon and you always eliminate the greatest threat first, because every thing else is peanuts compared to that.

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  27. transmogrifier (522 comments) says:

    Islamic extremism must be fought against. It’s pathetic that their lowest common denominator tactic works so often.

    But how to do that? Fucked if I know.

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  28. Stuart Mackey (337 comments) says:

    transmogrifier (289) Says:
    April 25th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
    Islamic extremism must be fought against. It’s pathetic that their lowest common denominator tactic works so often.

    But how to do that? Fucked if I know.”

    Look at the David Low cartoons, read Churchill’s warnings about Germany, thats how you do it; always speak out, no matter what.

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  29. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    Totally agree with you Mr Mackey, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkaaaaaaaaaay

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  30. JiveKitty (869 comments) says:

    Fletch: “You can’t blame Comedy Central for the censorship. Did you see the violent response they got from some Muslim group?”

    I still blame them. It was gutless and unprincipled to censor it, and it just gave incentive to other people who might get offended to go in with threats where they otherwise might not have.

    “That’s because most Christians don’t threaten to kill you when you insult God. That just goes to show the difference between Christianity and the “religion of peace”.”

    Most Muslims don’t either, but yeah, Islam is a religion adhered to by more of those in more primitive cultures/environments where that kind of behaviour is more acceptable.

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  31. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    “Other than not sharing your beliefs, what’s your beef with PZ? Because he’s an intellectual and you’re a gnat?”

    PZ is supposed to be one of the worlds best intellects as far as the scientific world goes, but what does he devote his time to? attacking fringe creationist Christians and looking for ways to justify intellectual atheist bigotry.
    He attacks the South Park creators because they don’t have a perfect understanding of the universe, what a dick.
    He is just more evidence that the atheist wars depicted in southpark are exactly what would happen if people like him gained the influence that they are so jealous for.

    Science H logic indeed.

    gnat out.

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  32. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Sorry about the duplications DPF, the link must have put it into moderation.

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  33. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Western christian society is dying by a death through a thousand cuts, Islamic extremism is but one cut and probably a very deep one. We have been conditioned by years of socialism and political correctness. We no longer have the will nor the balls to choose between right and wrong. We deserve Islamic extremism and some will even welcome it, how long have liberal dick wacking fuckwits been telling us that all cultures are equal. Until we elect leaders that lead and have the nuts to see evil for what it is things will only get worse.

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  34. David in Chch (512 comments) says:

    What’s interesting of course is that the publicity that has been generated for South Park will simply make more people try to find an uncensored version. Just as when the Catholic Church protested about the SP episode with a bleeding statue of Mary, the audience numbers for C4 were TRIPLE what they normally were. It actually makes people sit and take notice when normally they wouldn’t. It is interesting that fundamentalists of whatever stripe never seem to learn that making a big noise about something the upsets them simply draws even more attention to the very thing they want people NOT to see or read or hear.

    They never learn, maybe they never will. But then it does make those of us who do care about freedom of speech take more notice as well.

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  35. Bed Rater (239 comments) says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Best_Friends

    Wasn’t a problem in that episode

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  36. ZenTiger (425 comments) says:

    David why should the aim be “to have less people see it?”

    It’s not a case of “when will they learn?” Perhaps you need to learn that to say nothing is to tacitly accept it.

    If people care about freedom of speech, then they have to accept people are free to criticise. We are discussing that people should not be silent in the face of threats from Islamic Fundamentalists, and therefore, to speak out, and you seem to think that if Christians “would only remain silent” they could avoid all this trouble… do you see the irony in what you are saying?

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  37. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Has anyone commenting here actually seen the show? If you watch it (and episode 200 from the previous week) it is a piss take of a lot of previous material – right at the start of episode 200 Stan says to Kyle and Cartman “you guys are just bringing up old stuff”. They then see Tom Cruise packing fudge (they are in a fudge factory) and there are hundreds of references to previous episodes. The censoring of Mohammed was just part of that piss take.
    Get it from Mr Twig.net Season 14 via Bittorrent.

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  38. JiveKitty (869 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda: “what does he devote his time to? attacking fringe creationist Christians and looking for ways to justify intellectual atheist bigotry.”

    Consider his cultural context. Fundamentalism is a lot stronger and has much more influence in the USA than in NZ, for example. Creationism is not so much a fringe there. A lot of people see “atheism” as a dirty word. I’m pretty sure that there’re more recent polls than this which specifically refer to creationism, but this is a kind of illustration of that: http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwin-birthday-believe-evolution.aspx

    As for intellectual atheist bigotry. Well, maybe. However, given his cultural context and what he argues, there’s a good argument it’s not unreasonable for a scientifically-minded person to argue that which he does in the way he does. He needs to be loud, brash and even obnoxious in order to be heard and not be cowed or shouted down. If he said things in a more quiet way, a more subtle manner, and so on, it is likely he would not be particularly prominent. It’s also probably worth noting that from his perspective, in his country one of the biggest impediments to furthering science is the prominence of fundamentalist Christianity and its adherents. I don’t know why you’d have a problem with one of the “world’s best intellects” being intellectual though.

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  39. Ed Snack (1,801 comments) says:

    PZ Meyers is indeed a legend in his own lunchtime, his reputation as one of the great intellectuals of the internet is made entirely of his own self promotion. Actually, he’s a humourless prat with an ego complex big enough to hide 64 Mohammed cartoons behind. However I agree that he thinks he’s awfully clever. Be interested to see if he has the guts to publish a Mohammed cartoon himself.

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  40. David in Chch (512 comments) says:

    gazzmaniac:
    Read what I said again. I wasn’t talking about _us_ (or more specifically about _me_). I said that when the _extremists_ (Catholic Church, Islamic fundamentalists, whoever) speak out and demand that something be suppressed, then everyone else takes more notice. I was talking in terms of their “PR”operations, which backfire if they want something to be ignored or not seen.

    Take for example some of the movies that various groups have tried to ban from theatres. If they hadn’t said _anything_, then those movies would likely have been seen by a small group of people, and would then have silently gone into the archives. But when they make a big noise, then something that would have slipped by quietly without a lot of attention instead gets LOTS of attention, and they end up getting the exact opposite of their stated objectives. MORE people watch. MORE people seek out the movie/TV episode/book/cartoon/whatever.

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  41. MIKMS (164 comments) says:

    @gazzmaniac – it wasn’t actually – some of it was but the majority wasn’t , the Network actually did do some crap stuff this time – it wasn’t a piss take this was reall, I watched the two episodes, if that was Parker and Stone then they went far too far with the bleeps- it wasn’t I can tell where they were meant to be and weren’t, simply Comedy Central are losers

    I don;t understand why someone at their studios hasn’t casually leaked the full un bleeped episode online or sent it to a country where it wouldn’t ever get bleeped like that like Aussie or NZ or the Netherlands but meh…

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  42. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    David in ChCh – that is precisely what this episode is doing – by taking the piss they are also highlighting the fact that censoring Mohammed is a stupid idea. FFS one of the super best friends is snorting cocaine in the episode!

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  43. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    MIKMS – I hadn’t heard (aside from here) that they had to put in the beeps. It makes a bit of sense now you mention it, but I am sure they beeped out a shitload of it (especially at the end) to take the piss.

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  44. David in Chch (512 comments) says:

    Exactly, gm. That was the whole point! By making a big noise, the Islamic extremists have guaranteed that MORE people will watch than would normally. It will work so well, some cynics might suggest that ALL such protests are actually fake and are reverse PR in action. ;-)

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  45. MIKMS (164 comments) says:

    No I thought that too – it’s not true at all unfortunately , he really did mean those characters to speak

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  46. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    It’s also probably worth noting that from his perspective, in his country one of the biggest impediments to furthering science is the prominence of fundamentalist Christianity and its adherents.

    No, there is no problem in furthering science at all, perhaps his tiny relatively insignificant over funded elitist field of science, but science as a whole is doing just fine in the States.

    I don’t know why you’d have a problem with one of the “world’s best intellects” being intellectual though.

    But he isn’t!! he is being a petty dick!
    It’s not that people don’t like him because he is an atheist, people don’t like him because he is an ar$ehole!!
    The guy can’t stand the Southpark creators because they called people like him for what they are, religious fanatics.
    He actually attacked them because they didn’t have a perfect understanding of the law of entropy!
    Do you get what I am saying?
    The LAW of entropy? He is criticising a satirical tv show for not respecting Mohamed…oh…I mean science!
    Ha ha! PZ is like a nutter Moslem.

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  47. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    I am going to draw a cartoon of the law of entropy and send it to PZ ;)

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  48. tom hunter (4,568 comments) says:

    The censoring of Mohammed was just part of that piss take.

    Sheesh – people really don’t read comments. I covered this two days ago

    From Trey and Matt themselves:

    In the 14 years we’ve been doing South Park we have never done a show that we couldn’t stand behind. We delivered our version of the show to Comedy Central and they made a determination to alter the episode. It wasn’t some meta-joke on our part. Comedy Central added the bleeps. In fact, Kyle’s customary final speech was about intimidation and fear. It didn’t mention Muhammad at all but it got bleeped too. We’ll be back next week with a whole new show about something completely different and we’ll see what happens to it.

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  49. Rex Widerstrom (5,330 comments) says:

    The very best response I have seen was from someone often reviled by commenters here, Jon Stewart of “The Daily Show”.

    After railing against censorhip on his own network he points out that TDS has lampooned every belief system (including atheism). He then berates the Muslins responsible for the threats (who, as he points out, live in New York and are thus protected by the First Amendment).

    He then joins a gospel choir to sing a song about freedom, including a line that reminds the Muslism they are “free to go fuck yourselves”.

    Well worth a look: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-22-2010/south-park-death-threats

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  50. JiveKitty (869 comments) says:

    “No, there is no problem in furthering science at all, perhaps his tiny relatively insignificant over funded elitist field of science, but science as a whole is doing just fine in the States.”

    Not when you’ve got a significant amount of people espousing creationism as an equivalent to evolution you haven’t. There is a certain fundamental ignorance of scientific precepts in people making this kind of equivalence.

    As for the intellectual atheist bigotry, I was commenting your post about him, that’s all. I have read some of his stuff before, but I wasn’t aware that he makes claim to being one of the world’s best intellects. I just thought it was odd that you would criticise an intellectual for being intellectual. I’m not familiar with his problems with South Park, but I do see why somebody in the USA may have to be obnoxious, etc, to get a point across particularly when dealing with fundamentalist Christianity. That’s basically what I was saying there.

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  51. eszett (2,374 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda (1149) Says:
    April 25th, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    It’s also probably worth noting that from his perspective, in his country one of the biggest impediments to furthering science is the prominence of fundamentalist Christianity and its adherents.

    No, there is no problem in furthering science at all, perhaps his tiny relatively insignificant over funded elitist field of science, but science as a whole is doing just fine in the States.

    Shunda, only 40% accepting evolution as a fact in a huge problem in the US. It is idiocy, and not in an insignificant elitist field of science.
    It is the same as if only 60% would believe that we live in a geocentric universe and everything revolves around the earth.

    It is not surprising that as a christian you would have problems with intellect, reason and fact. It is exactly the pointt the PZ Myers is trying to make.

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  52. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Ha ha eszett you slay me!
    If only people would believe! if only!

    I do hope you expand your religion and “save” us all from our selves, oh the humanity!!
    All the worlds problems would just disappear if people would just accept the research of an elitist dogmatic luxury field of biology, oh the things it’s proponents have done for human kind! the importance of knowing that birds came from dinosaurs! that whales come from some from cow like creature with a fetish for salt water!!
    You are right.
    Southpark should never have poked fun at your serious rational religion.

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  53. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    “It is the same as if only 60% would believe that we live in a geocentric universe and everything revolves around the earth.”

    yes yes YES!
    We all know how important it is to reject the evil religion of Geocentricism and its evil twin Heliocentrism!! So many lives corrupted and lost, so much destruction!

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  54. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    “I’m not familiar with his problems with South Park, but I do see why somebody in the USA may have to be obnoxious, etc, to get a point across particularly when dealing with fundamentalist Christianity.”

    Oh this is priceless!, you have never watched the atheist episode have you, well, if being obnoxious is what it takes to get a point across then here ya go:

    http://www.xepisodes.com/southpark/episodes/1012/Go-God-Go!.html

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  55. Murray (8,842 comments) says:

    If they react badly to being mad fun of, make fun of them more. A good rule of thumb.

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  56. JiveKitty (869 comments) says:

    “Oh this is priceless!, you have never watched the atheist episode have you”

    I watched them both when they were on TV and proceeded to make fun of my flatmate because of it. :D I get what you are saying, I just wasn’t aware that Myers was obnoxious/combative towards others, such as the South Park creators, who are not particularly relevant to the main thrust of what he critiques. Oh well.

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  57. eszett (2,374 comments) says:

    Unsurprisingly, Shunda, you think ignorance is a virtue and knowledge is superfluous

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  58. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (774 comments) says:

    Serious question….. how do I draw Muhammad? If we cant depict him in drawings etc how am I suppose to know what he looks like. Which leads to the next question…… how can any Islamic person get offended by my drawing when it cant even be known that I have in fact drawn Muhammad?
    or am I missing something and there are indeed pictures of Muhammad somewhere but we are not allowed to draw him anymore? cos Im atheist?

    [DPF: There are many drawings of Mumammad from the past. Despite what is claimed, it is only in the 17th century that the idea that it was sacrilege to depict him caught on]

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  59. Shunda barunda (2,972 comments) says:

    Unsurprisingly, Shunda, you think ignorance is a virtue and knowledge is superfluous

    I do? goodness me.
    I should be burned at the stake!!!

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  60. GPT1 (2,106 comments) says:

    Generally I find South Park very clever and very amusing. I would have to say I found the Bleeding Mary episode offensive and lacking in cleverness (maybe I missed the point) but I was able to share my opinion just as readily as C4 was able to show the episode. And rightly so.

    The various Mahommad episodes I have seen have been quite amusing and tend to draw attention to the double standard. Be offensive to Christianity and there is a collective shrug of shoulders yet be merely ‘culturally insensitive’ to Islam and all hell breaks loose.

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  61. MIKMS (164 comments) says:

    @shortshrivled

    Amazingly they don’t have a problem with any of the medieval depictions of him at all….

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