About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

May 12, 2010 10:45am by David Farrar

General Debate 12 May 2010

Had outages today! Not with Kiwiblog, but Vodafone which meant I could not connect to Kiwiblog.

Share this:

Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Reddit
WhatsApp
More

Pinterest
Print
Tumblr

Like this:

Like Loading...

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment104

Uncategorized
General Debate

Related Stories

A seperate religious debate thread
Debate Thread
General Debate 26 November 2011

Comments (104)

Login to comment or vote

Kris K

Ryan Sproull 1:29 pm,

She’s talking mainly about Muslim extremists. The only time she’s not, she’s talking about what life was like growing up in Somalia, and I don’t think that environment is analogous to Kiwi Muslims.

Any comment on your claim that you only want changes of hearts and minds, not through legislation, yet have a problem with legalised gay marriage? (Third time. Today, at least. A few times yesterday too.)

You obviously didn’t listen very well to what she (Ayaan Hirsi Ali) said. I have taken the trouble of transcribing her from about three minutes into the video up to about four and a half minutes:

I grew up as a Muslim, and growing up as a Muslim I learned you don’t criticise Allah, the Koran, or the Prophet Mohammed and you should participate in condemning, and eventually killing anybody who does. So that is just what the religion tells us; that’s what Scripture tells us – there are some people who want to act on it, and there are some people who don’t. The majority of Muslims do not want to act on the Scripture, but they are silent when fellow Muslims do.

And you don’t see death threats from Jews when Moses is depicted in an unbecoming position, and you don’t see threats from Christians when Jesus Christ is put in a satire position … the South Park episode of last weekend … it wasn’t just witty, but it addressed an essential piece … in the times that we are living there is one group of people, one religion [Islam] that is claiming to be above criticism. And I hope that in the aftermath of this that we discuss that.

So you really have no issues with that, Ryan?

Just because some Muslims may not act on some offences doesn’t imply that will automatically be the case should the Muslim population greatly increase in New Zealand from what it is currently. Once again I cite examples such as Europe and the UK where they are of a much higher proportion, and where we see increasing levels of intolerance of Muslims against non-Muslims.
Once again; my Muslim ‘critical mass’ analogy.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 14, 2010 3:31pm
Ryan Sproull

Those are two separate parts of the interview, Kris. The first part is a description of her growing up in Somalia, as I said, and I think things are different for Kiwi Muslims.

In the second part, she’s referring to the Islamic extremists making threats against Parker and Stone, and I have made it clear I’m not talking about Islamic extremists, I’m talking about moderate mainstream Muslims – the great majority who do not make any such threats or take any such actions.

Your Muslim “critical mass” analogy doesn’t hold either. The truth is, if one in every 10,000 people calling themselves Muslim is inclined towards criminal actions in the name of his or her religion, then once you have 100,000 Muslims in New Zealand, you’ll have 10 nutter Muslims. That’s just statistical probability. “Critical mass” implies that at some tipping point, huge numbers of Muslims will suddenly turn around and attack. The vast numbers of Muslims not committing crimes in the UK and Europe are examples of the statistical approach holding up.

I know the National Front in New Zealand is less offensive than Muslim extremists, but it’s an example of how when you have enough Christians in one place, there will be a small number of nutters ticking off “Christian” on the census and doing absurd shit in the name of their religion. It’s not that there’s a critical mass of Christians and suddenly a bunch turn racist. It’s just statistics. Get enough people and the disturbing tiny fractions become visible.

And…

Any comment on your claim that you only want changes of hearts and minds, not through legislation, yet have a problem with legalised gay marriage? (Third time. Today, at least. A few times yesterday too. The last time was actually only the second time today. Now it’s three times today.)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 14, 2010 3:45pm
RightNow

Beer O’Clock boys, take a break
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 14, 2010 3:50pm
Ryan Sproull

Half an hour left to go, RN ; )
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 14, 2010 3:57pm

More comments:

‹
1
2

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Prime Minister David Cameron

Own goal confirmed »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Highlights

The Kiwis are fleeing
Inflation by term
Houston we have a problem
Our immunisation disaster

Top Stories

General Debate 19 April 2024
Two terrible attacks in Australia
Singapore takes defence very seriously
Are those with access cards the problem?
No excuse for fleeing
General Debate 18 April 2024
This could explain the brickbat
We still have an inflation problem
Ministry of Education Cuts in Perspective.
The Cass Report

Recent Posts

Are those with access cards the problem? 19 April 2024
Singapore takes defence very seriously 19 April 2024
General Debate 19 April 2024 19 April 2024
Two terrible attacks in Australia 19 April 2024
No excuse for fleeing 18 April 2024
This could explain the brickbat 18 April 2024
General Debate 18 April 2024 18 April 2024
We still have an inflation problem 18 April 2024
UK Labour Deputy Leader in trouble 17 April 2024
Ministry of Education Cuts in Perspective. 17 April 2024
Graham Adams on MACA and the Court of Appeal 17 April 2024
General Debate 17 April 2024 17 April 2024

Never miss a post

Email Address

Recent Comments

General Debate 19 April 2024
MCōs
General Debate 19 April 2024
MCōs
Two terrible attacks in Australia
WorthwhileAucklandInitiative
General Debate 19 April 2024
kowtow
Are those with access cards the problem?
expat
General Debate 19 April 2024
All_on_Red
General Debate 19 April 2024
All_on_Red
Singapore takes defence very seriously
jkt
Two terrible attacks in Australia
James Stephenson
General Debate 19 April 2024
Flossie
General Debate 19 April 2024
imalwaysright
General Debate 19 April 2024
imalwaysright
General Debate 19 April 2024
Flossie
Are those with access cards the problem?
the deity formerly known as nigel6888
Are those with access cards the problem?
WorthwhileAucklandInitiative

Links

Breaking Views Update: Week of 14.4.24
Breaking Views
A who's who of New Zealand's dodgiest companies
No Right Turn
"Under a better Resource Management system [sic], there would be no need for fast-track approval processes."
Not PC
Marxist Economics Is Dumb
Utopia
Can taxpayers be confident PIJF cash was spent wisely?
Point of Order
Daily review 19/04/2024
The Standard
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Scottish Skullduggery
No Minister
Again, hate crimes are not necessarily terrorism.
Kiwipolitico
Te Papa gutlessly cower to Chief Culture Censor Paul Goldsmith
The Daily Blog
Despair - construction consenting edition
Offsetting Behaviour
RACIST ADVERTISING
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Is the state coming for churches?
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Super Rugby Predictions for Week 9
Stats Chat
Coalition Promises
NZCPR
Tougher than that
Croaking Cassandra
ABs stripped of 2011 title after try disallowed
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

© 2003-2024 David Farrar

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d

%d