All Right

June 21st, 2010 at 10:01 am by David Farrar

The 1-1 draw against Italy is arguably the greatest achievement to date of a NZ soccer team. This is like Japan drawing with the All Blacks in rugby.

We started the tournament as the bottom ranked team (in terms of odds at Ladbrookes), and so having two points of two games is magnificent.

The Herald puts it into context – we have 25 professional footballers compared to 3,541 for Italy.

If somehow we can make the next round, I reckon there will be a de facto public holiday to celebrate!

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60 Responses to “All Right”

  1. Monty (966 comments) says:

    Is John Key the good luck tailsman? – while we all know that Clark was the jinxed curse.

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  2. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    Another piece of context – the Italian goalie was worth more than our entire starting 11.

    Also: diving cheating sods!

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  3. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (774 comments) says:

    Good result….. but its being exaggerated.
    The odds of a draw was $4.50
    the odds of Japan to win or draw against the ABs is usually more like $25

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  4. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (774 comments) says:

    oh and pulling the shirt is a foul.

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  5. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Why are so many rugby heads threatened by this result?

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  6. Inventory2 (10,167 comments) says:

    @ Monty – I personally wouldn’t have a problem if there was a case of champers on Key’s next credit card statement! The All Whites deserve a Prime Ministerial shout.

    And I’m waiting for the lefties at The Standard to berate Key for going out on the pitch with the All Whites post-match, whereupon I will tell them that the All Whites INVITED him!

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  7. Inventory2 (10,167 comments) says:

    @ big bruv – I’m a rugby man to the core, and I’m not the least bit threatened. I was at the Bahrain game in Wellington, and but for work commitments would be in South Africa right now. This is a fantastic result for New Zealand.

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  8. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    whereupon I will tell them that the All Whites INVITED him!

    Anyone not invited would probably get tazed though wouldn’t they? :-p

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  9. bearhunter (859 comments) says:

    Bruv, because they know their beloved ABs will never acquit themselves as well as the All Whites have. The ABs would have to win a World Cup to come close to what Ricki Herbert and his team have achieved. And they’re not very good at winning World Cups…

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  10. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    IV2

    Good on ya mate, I am also a rugby fan (right up to the International level, I detest the All Blacks with a passion) but first and foremost I am a sporting fan.

    The point I am making is that so many rugby heads (surely the most boring bastards in NZ) feel threatened by this result to such an extent that they are trying to belittle it.

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  11. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Milan’s Corriere de la Sera despairs http://www.corriere.it/sport/speciali/2010/mondiali-calcio-sudafrica/notizie/20-giugno-italia-nuova-zelanda-gelmini_5751b2b0-7c87-11df-bd5b-00144f02aabe.shtml

    Brutta Italia, ora si rischia
    Con la Nuova Zelanda finisce 1-1. Giovedì contro la Slovacchia partita da ultima spiaggia

    A joy to read the Italians feel aggrieved and disappointed. Go the All Whites!

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  12. Pete George (23,277 comments) says:

    Why are so many rugby heads threatened by this result?

    Who is? Why would they be?

    I’m a big rugby fan but also like to follow a wide range of other sports. It’s great to see the All Whites doing well – and it has nothing to do with politicians (unless it’s Rugby World Cup in South Africa in 97).

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  13. J Mex (184 comments) says:

    Good result….. but its being exaggerated.
    The odds of a draw was $4.50
    the odds of Japan to win or draw against the ABs is usually more like $25

    Somewhat, but the 1st ranked team did just draw with the 78th ranked team at the world cup.

    It is actually the Rugby equivalent of South Africa (rank 1) drawing with the Solomon Islands (rank 78) at the Rugby World Cup.

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  14. NOt1tocommentoften (436 comments) says:

    Who has been belitting the win BB? I haven’t seen anything around yet suggesting rugby heads are threatened/

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  15. AlphaKiwi (687 comments) says:

    The Italians have no conscience when it comes to diving. It’s as if they’re all Andy Hadens.

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  16. Danny-boy (102 comments) says:

    For anyone curious, here’s what has to happen for NZ to qualify for the second round:

    If New Zealand beats Paraguay, New Zealand will progress to the second round.

    1. If Italy beats Slovakia, Italy and New Zealand will qualify for the second round. First and second place in the group will be determined by goal difference in those teams’ last games:
    a. If the goal difference is the same (e.g. 3-2 and 2-1 or 2-1 and 1-0), then first and second place will be determined by number of goals scored. (e.g. If Italy beats Slovakia 3-2 and New Zealand beats Paraguay 2-1, Italy will qualify first in the group and New Zealand second.)
    b. If the scores are exactly the same, first and second place will be determined by coin toss.

    2. If Italy draws with Slovakia, New Zealand will qualify first in the group and Paraguay will qualify second.

    3. If Italy loses to Slovakia, New Zealand will qualify first in the group and either Paraguay or Slovakia will qualify second depending on goal difference. (Slovakia would need to defeat Italy resoundingly for Slovakia to qualify second in the group.)

    If both New Zealand and Italy draw their games, Paraguay will qualify first in the group and either New Zealand or Italy will qualify second depending on which team scores the most goals in their final game. (e.g. If Italy draws 1-1 with Slovakia and New Zealand draws 0-0 with Paraguay, Italy will qualify second in the group.)

    If both tied games get exactly the same score, second place in the group is determined by coin toss.

    If New Zealand loses to Paraguay, New Zealand will not qualify.

    If New Zealand draws with Paraguay, and the Italy-Slovakia game is not a draw, New Zealand will not qualify.

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  17. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    “And I’m waiting for the lefties at The Standard to berate Key for going out on the pitch with the All Whites post-match, whereupon I will tell them that the All Whites INVITED him!”

    Isn’t the Standard’s pathological hatred for John Key amusing?

    Whatever you have to say about his politics, (and despite his huge success and wealth which the left so envy) her far more represents the ordinary kiwi than the motley lot in the Labour Party. I mean who would you rather have a beer over a game of rugby with, JK or Chauvel/Cunliffe/Clark/Hughes etc….

    The Standard and th Labour Party ignore this at their peril, at it is the main reason I believe JK is safe until at least 2014

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  18. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Did Key pay his own way to South Africa?

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  19. ben (2,414 comments) says:

    New Zealand is 73 places below Italy in the world rankings.

    So in rugby terms, this is like the All Blacks (1) drawing with Zambia (74). List here.

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  20. Pete George (23,277 comments) says:

    Somewhat, but the 1st ranked team did just draw with the 78th ranked team at the world cup.

    It is actually the Rugby equivalent of South Africa (rank 1) drawing with the Solomon Islands (rank 78) at the Rugby World Cup.

    Italy is ranked 5.

    Ireland is ranked 5 in rugby. Namibia will be one of the longest shots at the WRC, ranked 22. But it’s hard to make direct comparisons, there is a lot less depth in rugby talent across countries than there is in football.

    Just enjoy the All White’s success.

    There have been other notable upsets – Switzerland beating Spain, Serbia beating Germany.

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  21. Repton (769 comments) says:

    It is actually the Rugby equivalent of South Africa (rank 1) drawing with the Solomon Islands (rank 78) at the Rugby World Cup.

    Well, soccer is a low-scoring game, so draws are much easier to come by. Draws in rugby attract low odds because they’re so rare, even for games with evenly-matched sides.

    It’s more like the rugby equivalent of the Solomons holding South Africa to within (say) 12 points.

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  22. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    Bottom line – soccer is a game that is more likely to produce upsets – it has low scores to start with, and one lucky break can give even a poor team a point.

    How likely is it that we’d beat Paraguay? Seems like the time to get excited is when that happens.

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  23. Pete George (23,277 comments) says:

    Thanks for the possibilities Danny-boy. NZ really have to be trying for a win this time, which won’t be easy against Paraguay (ranked 31). But NZ have nothing to lose having already exceeded expectations, so the pressure will be on the others more.

    The final group games will be played at the same time, so no advantage of knowing the other result.

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  24. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    BB,

    He’s doing other PM-type stuff there at the same time. Good timing.

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  25. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    Bruv, regardless of your views on him he is squeaky clean in this area, I am sure if it was not 100% govt business he would be. You would hope so, for someone worth $50 mil.

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  26. Pete George (23,277 comments) says:

    I don’t have a problem with Key being in South Africa, good for him to be supporting the team – and I’m sure there are a few other politicians there so he can make the most of the time over there.

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  27. J Mex (184 comments) says:

    I also remember reading that Key was taking his son at his own expense.

    Compare and contrast with a week long trip to the Bejing Olympics for Cosgrove and wife for no apparent reason at all.

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  28. Inventory2 (10,167 comments) says:

    @ Pete – and the profile that the All Whites are generating will spin off on Key’s official duties, which I believe includes a trade delegation.

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  29. Hagues (711 comments) says:

    I seem to recall reading a while ago that Key was taking his son over for it and paying his own way.

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  30. lastmanstanding (1,238 comments) says:

    Thanks Danny-boy for the explaination. Interesting to read the foreign press. Oh to see ourselves as others see us and all that. They are all talking up the spirit and determination of the AWs and that the ref was the Ities 12th man.

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  31. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    The Aussie media are already claiming NZ as their own. FUCK YEAH!!!!!

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  32. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    My understanding is that Key has paid all this himself. And if he didn’t; so what! No speeding motorcades here. No cops being left to swing.

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  33. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    arguably the greatest achievement … there’s no argument … it simply is their greatest achievement … lookout All Blacks if they beat Paraguay…

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  34. GPT1 (2,103 comments) says:

    The ref has to be the lastest candidate for stars in the eye…

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  35. malcolm (2,000 comments) says:

    Did Key pay his own way to South Africa?

    Funniest line of the day goes to BB. Apparently Chris Carter has gone as well, as head of the UN Health and Safety Harmonisation Scheme.

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  36. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    Yup, that ref was a shocker. When oh when will FIFA get some technology into their game. There has been so much happening in the game that makes football a mockery when compared to other major world sports.

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  37. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    The ref made a bad call for the NZ goal also – if he’d got it right all night the result would have been 0-0 instead of 1-1.

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  38. Pete George (23,277 comments) says:

    “The ref made a bad call for the NZ goal also”

    Wasn’t that a linesman’s non-call?

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  39. tknorriss (327 comments) says:

    So on the (very big assumption) that NZ beats Paraguy, is there any chance we could actually win the world cup.

    I would say “yes” there is a chance, although extremely remote.

    Any time we play any of those best teams in the world there is always a chance we could win. Perhaps we defend extremely well, get a lucky goal, and have some fantastic goal keeping. On that basis we might expect to win 5 times for every 100 times we play teams of the quality we are likely to face in the next round (pure speculation of course).

    That being case, once in the second round, we would have to have a 5 in 100 result four times in a row to win the world cup. On that basis, there would be a 0.000625 percent probability of winning the world cup outright, slightly less than a 1 in 100000 probability.

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  40. NoCash (256 comments) says:

    So the 2000:1 odd at TAB is a rip off then LOL…

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  41. NoCash (256 comments) says:

    Just checked… it’s now down to 1000:1 at TAB…

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  42. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Point taken Pete. I was responding to Christopher Thompson’s comment about technology in sport – and technology could have been used in both instances for a different result. We had a bad ref’s call on a goal each way.

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  43. bearhunter (859 comments) says:

    “The ref made a bad call for the NZ goal also…”

    Don’t think so. The Sky coverage had a close up that showed it came off Chiellini, not Reid. Looked like handball by the Eyetie on the deck too.

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  44. NoCash (256 comments) says:

    I think at the time Reid’s head touched the ball, Smeltz was offside (but not at the time when Elliott kicked off). What happened next (that the ball bounced off the Italian player) was irrelevant.

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  45. Fletch (6,132 comments) says:

    Well done All Whites, but I am not a sports fan particularly. I didn’t watch the game.
    I was interested to see the poll on Yahoo!Xtra today which asked, “Did you stay up last night watching the All Whites?”

    The results –

    Yes, of course! 28% 1968 votes
    I tried to, but I didn’t see all of the match… 8% 525 votes
    No, not this time 34% 2345 votes
    No – I’m not into football 30% 2106 votes

    So, 30% aren’t into football (like me), and 34% just didn’t watch it this time.
    I wonder how many Kiwis are really taking notice of it…

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  46. Pete George (23,277 comments) says:

    I’m in a different category – I decided not to worry about watching the whole match because I didn’t think we would go that close, I got up to watch the last half hour.

    I’ll probably watch most or all of the next match.

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  47. NoCash (256 comments) says:

    Where’s the option “Went to bed early so that I could get up at 2am to watch the game”.

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  48. cabbage (455 comments) says:

    Where’s the option “Went to bed early so that I could get up at 2am to watch the game”.

    Exactly what I did. Will be doing the same for the Paraguay match too.

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  49. Ed Snack (1,785 comments) says:

    No Cash is correct, Smeltz is offside, and it doesn’t matter if the ball came of one of his own side or an opponent if he was in a position to “gain an advantage”. So a draw was fair, even if the dive was a more artistic expression than offside.

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  50. workingman (84 comments) says:

    I set the recorder to record the game, turned off my phone so no text messages to spoil the result and then intended to get up at 6am to watch the game ‘Live’ from the recording. In the end I just naturally woke up before the game and got up to watch it. Glad I did, as it was great to know I really was there and awake at the time it happened. I think there was a mini EQ at 2:07 am.

    As to referees, Football is a fast played sport. Do we really want all the stop and start of going for TV decisions?

    As to the offside, you can be sure that if the Italians thought Smeltz was offside they would have complained long and loud. Even with all the replays no one can say that Reid touched the ball, and the one thing you do not get on a replay is the sound of the ball hitting something, and that is normally the largest pointer to what has happened.

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  51. gravedodger (1,528 comments) says:

    Big Bruv just revels in his blind or should that be blond analysis of sport that is matched entirely by Phool on politics.
    He thinks Rugby followers are as flakey, shallow and thick as he continually exhibits he is. FFS sake he thinks the Hurricanes are the best team in super 14.

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  52. LiberalismIsASin (288 comments) says:

    It is definately NZ’s finest footballing moment. I think you could also make the case its our greatest sporting moment period. However, the best may be to come if we can defeat Paraguay, thats a big if though. Even if we lose to Paraguay we have had a fantastic tournament and performed way above expectations. I have particularly enjoyed all those english commentators on 5Live and 606 who said we didnt deserve to be at the tournament eating humble pie while England stutter to two draws while playing terrible football.

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  53. Pete George (23,277 comments) says:

    “It is definately NZ’s finest footballing moment. ” – yes

    “I think you could also make the case its our greatest sporting moment period.” – no
    Ultimately sport is about winning, and they haven’t won anything (except the admiration of the country).

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  54. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    Hmmm. This is probably why I don’t get all that excited about sport.

    The finest moment in sport would be about character and behaviour. Winning or not winning is a function of how your luck goes, of how good your team are (remember we have a small population), of what other sports people play (are all the talented guys playing rugby or soccer?), of whether other people cheat (drugs anyone) or have natural endowments (a certain female SA runner anyone).

    I’ve mostly given up on high end sport – the reality is that it is entertainment that is carefully managed by the TV channels so as to provide the best ‘spectacle’. Once you start thinking about why we’d ban people because of how they were born (that same SA runner), you start to realise why top level sport has become meaningless other than as a drug for the masses.

    If you want to see some real sport, get out and watch some of your local sports teams – the ones that do it for fun, and think that a good game is one where they all got out on the paddock, had a good run, and did their best. Not in the sense of “winning doesn’t matter”, but in the sense of “you win some, you lose some”. Some years your team is top of the grade, some years you’re the bottom of the next grade up. If you get too hung up on winning and losing, then you need to start manipulating which grade you’re in – which isn’t what sport should be about….

    Better yet, join a team yourself. Put in some effort, have a couple of bevvies after the game. You may even make some friends.

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  55. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    http://english.gazzetta.it/WorldCup/20-06-2010/italy-fall-flat-qualification-for-the-knockout-stage-now-at-risk–71166778698.shtml

    The Ities continue to lament their misfortune.

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  56. Inventory2 (10,167 comments) says:

    @ LiberalismIs ASin – I think it’s a bit premature to call this New Zealand’s best ever sporting achievement, although it’s certainly NZ’s greatest football achievement. After all, we haven’t actually WON a match yet. But it’s up there for consideration, and for argument! For mine, Peter Snell’s 800/1500 double at the Tokyo Olympics will always take some beating, as will Danyon Loader’s 200/400 freestyle double in 1996. Now all the memories are flooding back – shit; what have I started?

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  57. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    Surreal. Shades of the Tall Blacks in 2004.

    I remember John Saker saying early in that tournament that “Tab (Baldwin) will have them believing they can make the semis” and thinking how preposterous that sounded. But of course they finished 4th ahead of the US.

    So the precedent is there and the similarities are eery: beating Serbia beforehand, rank outsiders but good players, great motivator.

    The thing about our guys is that they conceded 15 corners to none and still didn’t crack. Their defence drives the pretty boys crazy, and their attackers have slipped four past the best defence in the world in two matches (counting the friendly against Italy last year).

    So their self-belief should be sky-high. As long as all those yellow cards don’t turn red (Winston Reid may rue taking his shirt off after his goal) we could beat Paraguay.

    If we do, and the Italians and Slovakians draw, we’ll qualify top and could well strike the Japanese in the last 16. And with our tall forwards against their short backs, the quarters beckon!

    Also if both games are draws, we’ve got to fancy our chances in a ‘penny shoot-out’ with Italy :-)

    (Surely they could organise a proper penalty shoot-out to introduce a semblance of skill?)

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  58. Uncompetency (12 comments) says:

    Two yellows equals a red only when both yellows are earned in the same game. Otherwise a second yellow in a different game cops the player a one match suspension to be served after the game in which the second yellow is earned. So if Reid gets a yellow versus Paraguay he will have to sit out the next match (round of 16 game – assuming NZ pull through).

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  59. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    Oh great – didn’t know that, thanks.

    The other interesting prospect is that if Japan lose to Denmark, NZ wins and Italy draws, Reid (as long as he keeps his shirt on and doesn’t do anything else silly) will be playing against the country we pinched him from.

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  60. Armotur (31 comments) says:

    My Kids and friends watched the All White Game last night. One was overheard asking ” Why are they playing soccer at an amateur vuvuzela concert?”

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