Editorials 12 June 2010

June 12th, 2010 at 1:59 pm by David Farrar

All four major are on the credit card revelations. First the Herald:

Such scrutiny is, obviously, overdue given some of the ministerial behaviour that has come to light. Equally, it must be recognised that the very functioning of government sometimes requires ministers to dip into the taxpayer pocket.

In this regard, some of the criticism directed at ministers has been well wide of the mark. Take, for example, the fact that Trade Minister Tim Groser paid what, for New Zealanders, represents a lavish restaurant tip while at an Apec summit in South America.

Quite simply, that was the level of gratuity expected in Peru. Equally, the same minister, as part of his official duties, is expected to entertain dignitaries on his many trips overseas.

There should be no surprise that his spending on liquor and food is reasonably substantial.

Likewise, there is nothing out of the norm in Murray McCully spending nearly $2000 of taxpayer money on laundry services.

His role as Foreign Affairs Minister dictates not only that he travels frequently but that he presents a good image when meeting foreign dignitaries.

McCully naturally looks unkempt, so any investment in keeping his shirts wrinkle free is worth it :-)

And there is Shane Jones’ lust for pornography, which led him to watch as many as three pay-per-view blue movies a night in hotel rooms and then charge them to his card.

The revelation will surely lead to the demotion of the former Building and Construction Minister when he faces his Labour caucus colleagues next week.

Labour leader Phil Goff has little option given his strong criticism of Housing Minister Phil Heatley, whose infringements were mild by comparison.

As Mr Jones conceded, he has dug a hole that may well prove to be his grave. It is difficult to see a way back, so deep and enduring will be the taint of the revelations and what they say about him.

Labour MPs are busy lining up to tell Shane that he can recover from this, but the political reality is that if he carries on he will spend 18 miserable months on the backbenches, and then disappear at the next election. They just want him to stay on, to avoid Judith Tizard returning.

slams appalling judgements:

Some might argue that the credit card revelations are a media beat-up, but in the case of the worst offenders there are serious issues. The spending reflects appalling judgment and a misplaced sense of entitlement on the part of several senior politicians who once held ministerial portfolios, with some no doubt aspiring to do so again.

Another disturbing feature thrown up by the release of documentation is the tardiness of some ministers in filing receipts for their spending, with officials having to pester them to do so. Again, this reluctance to be accountable for spending taxpayer money showed poor judgment.

But again some balance:

This helps explain why food and drink receipts loom so large among the released documents. The current Trade Minister, Tim Groser, who was the subject of a complaint about his behaviour on an international flight, has now raised eyebrows with his mini-bar tabs. But Groser should not be judged harshly too quickly. Groser is required to be frequently overseas on portfolio business and should not be begrudged, after a long day of trade talks, winding down in his hotel room with a drink. Perhaps it needs to be explained, however, how he came to buy five $92 bottles of Famous Grouse scotch during the climate change conference in Copenhagen. Whether or not another former Labour minister, Judith Tizard, should have spent $155 on a single bottle of champagne is another question.

People who don’t travel much think that travel is fun. Being in other countries can be fun, but travel itself is not. Spending 200 days a year travelling overseas is a pretty miserable existence.

The Dominion Post focuses on Shane Jones:

Former Labour minister Shane Jones’ biggest sin was not that he watched pornography. It was that he got the taxpayer to pay for the pornography he was watching. Mr Jones’ purchase of porn betrays of mammoth sense of entitlement and a minuscule sense of propriety.

He is not alone. Judith Tizard moved on from being a chardonnay socialist to become a Bollinger bolshevik, charging up a $155 bottle of bubbly to the taxpayers.

Chris Carter felt it was appropriate to use his ministerial credit card to buy flowers for his partner, Peter Kaiser, and for colleague Lianne Dalziel when she was sacked, plus kitchenware in London, and massages in Buenos Aires.

Mita Ririnui used his card for golf clubs and at a bike shop. The list goes on. They can clearly read the menus and wine lists but apparently not the ministerial guidelines on spending.

The lack of remorse is what grates:

Mr Carter says his mistakes were “perhaps inevitable, but never excusable”. That offers no insight into why he thought the taxpayer should be paying for “kitchenware” – apparently mugs bearing the British Labour Party logo – and its postage back to New Zealand from London.

Former agriculture and forestry minister Jim Anderton is little better. He has rejected any suggestion it was improper that spa treatments at a Malaysian hotel were charged to his ministerial card, saying he paid the money back and “it’s just silly to think you’re going to carry a number of cards and pay for this on one and that on another”.

He is wrong. That is exactly what he should have done, and what most in the private sector expect to do when they are travelling with a company credit card.

Exactly. And the excuse that Ministers are too busy to check out themselves is trite. They can give their personal card to staff to use at checkout. They can get the bill the night before and indicate then what items are personal and pay for them.

Mr Jones, once touted as a future Labour leader, will pay a high political price. His credibility is all but gone.

In many ways a pity. He was one of the economically most literate MPs in Labour. But his colleagues are deluding him if they say he can get over this.

The ODT points out not all Ministers have offended:

Many members of the public and probably most of the media have long suspected politicians have so designed their professional way of life in such a manner as to rort the taxpayers as often and as deeply as they can get away with, surrounded such behaviour with a thicket of prohibitions on disclosure, and adopted denial as the first defensive posture when challenged.

The accusatory brush has been broad, yet as the recent disclosures show, unfairly so. By no means all present and former ministers have abused their special privileges at our cost; indeed, several have been quite circumspect, using their ministerial credit card with caution and within the rules. …

The exceptions have been disappointingly cavalier with their private spending and their hypocrisy for doing so while generally railing against wasteful state spending will do their reputations no good whatsoever.

Winston Peters has denied using his credit card, but it is clear from the records that his staff charged many items to it claiming they were expenses, never mind a reminder of the “unarguable” policy that credit cards not be used for personal expenditure, regardless of repayment.

Jim Anderton was also shown to have used his card for a massage and spa services for himself and his wife while on Labour government business.

Others have treated the taxpayer-funded card just as carelessly, but on a far greater scale. The contrast on television between the smirking former Labour minister Chris Carter and his shamefaced colleague Shane Jones perhaps spoke volumes about attitudes.

Indeed.

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63 Responses to “Editorials 12 June 2010”

  1. MIKMS (164 comments) says:

    The good thing about this is that Cantab voters will hopefully see Jim for the pathetic human being he is….refusing to resign his seat to contend for the Mayoralty, calling himself the people’s mayor, getting people to email Uni students to volunteer for him, viciously expensive hotel massages….vast expenses on his travel and credit card allowances…his political death will make us laugh without pity I expect.

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  2. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Yeah yeah, the public was ripped off by Jones et al, but it just doesn’t sit well with me that newspapers and editorial writers are getting all sanctimonious over this.

    After all, the essence of the credit card stuff is betrayal of trust.

    Newspapers and editorial writers I reckon are guilty of a far greater betrayal of trust in foregoing their responsibility to present objective journalism, and instead pushing the Progressive political barrow.

    This betrayal is evident in so many areas. Failing to investigate global warming. Pandering to racists. Never asking the hard questions of their political favourites. Worshipping slavishly at the alter of political correctness.

    Sure, Jones and his colleagues are due some retribution, but I don’t think NZ’s news media should be the ones handing it out. I don’t know about anyone else, but I feel much more revulsion towards journalists who have betrayed their craft than I do to politicians who have betrayed their constituents.

    You more or less expect it of the pollies. They’ve always been like that. There was a time though when journalism was a respected craft. Not any more. Its down there below used car salesmen in the public regard, and its today’s journalists, the writers of the above editorials, who have put it there.

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  3. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    “Labour MPs are busy lining up to tell Shane that he can recover from this, but the political reality is that if he carries on he will spend 18 miserable months on the backbenches, and then disappear at the next election. They just want him to stay on, to avoid Judith Tizard returning.”

    Hehe. Love that bit. You can tell they are the party that represents nothing but crap cause they have appointed pieces of shit to be their MP’s when you read it.

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  4. davidp (3,540 comments) says:

    Where was Helen Clark when all this rorting was going on? She is supposed to have been a control freak so presumably she knew what was happening. Did she choose not to do anything about the situation?

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  5. Spoff (275 comments) says:

    I am not sure how this is going to play for Shane Jones. My impression from the talkbacks and blogs is that the “porn” issue is not a big deal. Most citizens seem to be more exercised by the incorrect assumption that the taxpayer funded his expenditure on Adult movies. If he is able to get the message out that there was no rorting involved, he may survive.

    I must admit to some curiousity however. I haven’t stayed in a NZ Hotel for decades. What sort of Adult movies are on offer? What is the legal angle? Is there any limit to what you can show on a pay-per-view channel?

    Whatever the outcome, Jones’ head is a big trophy for National.

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  6. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    “Whatever the outcome, Jones’ head is a big trophy for National.”

    Jones giving head! I like that. :)

    (Not to me you understand).

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  7. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “My impression from the talkbacks and blogs is that the “porn” issue is not a big deal.”

    ..and that’s another part of the problem. Are NZers so blaze about morality that they’re not concerned that one of their parliamentary representatives is a porn freak?? Where the hell is their moral compass.

    What?? PORN IS A GOOD THING? IS THAT WHAT I”M MISSING HERE???

    Jones should be sacked on the fucking spot.

    For fuck’s sake this country is a fucking basket case.

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  8. simpleton (155 comments) says:

    It looks like Helen Clark owned her ministers.

    With a judicious name drop to a journalist, with certain leaked information, she could easily have them dropped, and they would have no recourse against her. It was comply or become severely damaged. After-all her hands would always appear to be clean.

    Complied they did, and from there they figured that they might as well be hung for a few sheep than just for a lamb. And dig the hole deeper they have continued

    It probably only took a Judas minister to say how to work the system, despite warnings from parliamentary services, so the other sheeple ministers with no ethics or thought of the future, followed.

    Now it is understandable about the faux rages, blatant lying, subterfuges, blind loyality, etc.

    Damm ,I think I am being too kind to them !!

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  9. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    You are not suggesting that Helen may have been corr—less than honest surely. :)

    She never wrote that on her application to Ban Ki Moon.

    Still it would only have improved her chances at the UN I am sure.

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  10. kowtow (7,634 comments) says:

    The ODT editorial is the one to read for what it doesn’t say.

    It starts off with “The wowser element………”

    Note the line “Many members of the public and probably MOST OF THE MEDIA have long suspected politicians………”

    That being the case why haven’t the useless members of whatever bloody estate they belong to do their job instead of repeating shite about any thing and every thing that doesnt count to us “punters” .

    This “story” has been given to them,at least in the UK it was the Telegraph that blew the bastards off.

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  11. MIKMS (164 comments) says:

    I think Helen probably knew there were the odd dodgy or “mistaken” expenditures but I don’t think she would have forseen this lot… particular after the UK incidents

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  12. Spoff (275 comments) says:

    “one of their parliamentary representatives is a porn freak?”

    That why I asked what sort of stuff is available in Hotels. Would it appeal to a “porn freak” ?

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  13. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,797 comments) says:

    Ho ho ho ho ho

    “Judith Tizard moved on from being a chardonnay socialist to become a Bollinger bolshevik,…”

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    BWAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAA

    Oh shit! The ribs just broke.

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  14. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Look here Adolf:

    http://www.bergpublishers.com/?tabid=993

    and here:

    http://sovietposter.blogspot.com/2007/10/in-victory-you-deserve-champagne-in.html

    Nothings changed!

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  15. Rufus (621 comments) says:

    Redbaiter 3:08

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Have our expectations of our politicians sunk so low?

    We’re paying these people good money (and generous perks) to do a job. Instead they lie, cheat and steal.

    Sack them.

    No wonder we have so much benefit fraud going on, and such unrealistic, uneconomic expectations from the majority that the government “owes” them something whether it’s a benefit/WFF/etc. – look at the example our ruling elite set!

    Scum. THIEVING SCUM!!!

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  16. Yvette (2,692 comments) says:

    Redbaiter – ‘ “My impression from the talkbacks and blogs is that the “porn” issue is not a big deal.”

    ..and that’s another part of the problem. Are NZers so blaze about morality that they’re not concerned that one of their parliamentary representatives is a porn freak?? Where the hell is their moral compass. What?? PORN IS A GOOD THING? IS THAT WHAT I”M MISSING HERE??? Jones should be sacked on the fucking spot. For fuck’s sake this country is a fucking basket case.’

    And so it may follow – when next a conscience vote is taken in Parliament, we now have a better idea of what consciences some have, but it makes me a bloody sight less confident in the sort of decision may be made.

    This is a good case for in the future there being a Party Vote or an Electorate Vote and in the latter a Electorate Member must poll his Electorate in some way. Individual conscience votes in Parliament don’t mean a fucking thing any more.

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  17. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    “PORN IS A GOOD THING? IS THAT WHAT I”M MISSING HERE??? ”

    Well if you want to come round to my place and have a meaningful discussion on the place of porn in the sex life of bipeds and quadrupeds feel free Yvette.

    As always at Johnboys: Clothing optional. :)

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  18. DrDr (108 comments) says:

    If Jones was watching lesbian porn he could claim that he was trying to come to terms with the actions and feelings of one of the core constituency groups of Labour.

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  19. Yvette (2,692 comments) says:

    Johnboy, it may not be so much the question of the value or not of porn, but rather the tendency to lie about it initially [until he realised he couldn't] that would make me not really wanting him deciding any ‘moral issue’ on my behalf. That pretty much goes for the rest of the credit card cretins.

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  20. Chuck Bird (4,682 comments) says:

    I wish the check had of gone back to 1996 to compare National ministers. I am no fan of Labour but I suspect while some of the National ministers spending may have been excessive I doubt is they would be near as bad as the last Labour government.

    It would be very interesting to compare but in my experience those on the Left generally have much greater since of entitlement.

    It would also be very interesting to compare the honesty of the average man or woman in the street with MPs. I doubt if MPs would score higher. Their honesty should be higher just like judges. Is not Parliament called the highest court in the land?

    I think the nature of the party system make it hard for politics to attack honest people. In most parties members are meant to support their party even if they are strongly opposed to their party’s policy. ACT wisely allows members a free vote on most issues.

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  21. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Quite true Yvette it would be very Shaneful if that filthy dog was allowed to decide any moral issues involving your good self.
    However if you feel that a far more worthy person than that filthy pervert should discuss morals with you feel free to let me know.

    ps: If you wish our correspondence to be secret head it “Private & Confidential for Johnboys eyes only” when you post it here.

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  22. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..I wish the check had of gone back to 1996 to compare National ministers..”

    i am sure a freedom of information request would take care of that..

    i’d be surprised if someone from labour has not already done/lodged that..eh..?

    that’ll be cool..!..eh…?

    more fun reading/pollies to kick around…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  23. Chuck Bird (4,682 comments) says:

    “And so it may follow – when next a conscience vote is taken in Parliament, we now have a better idea of what consciences some have”

    Hopefully this may help the case for referenda to replace conscience votes. To few MPs have a conscience.

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  24. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “…As always at Johnboys: Clothing optional. :)…”

    ew..!

    an old saggy man ..

    ..with old saggy bits..

    with no clothes on…

    do you mind..!

    it is almost dinnertime..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  25. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    ““..I wish the check had of gone back to 1996 to compare National ministers..””

    Living in the past are we?—-phil…old..armed….robber…..old…druggie…soon to be employed…are..we….eh..?

    (Johnboy.Sheepshagger.Lalaland)

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  26. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    “it is almost dinnertime..!”

    Enjoy your lentil stew Phool..fruit of the Gods…eh?…ambrosia….manna from heaven….eh?

    (Johnboy.Sheepshagger.Lalaland)

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  27. Yvette (2,692 comments) says:

    “Private & Confidential for Johnboys eyes only”
    Johnboy, did you see Shrek the Sheep on television two nights ago – probably better suited than that dirty dog Shaneful to make decisions on my behalf.

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  28. Viking2 (11,137 comments) says:

    Remove whipping and remove party leaders Parliamentary power.
    Referendum might just then work.

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  29. backster (2,079 comments) says:

    The situation is the legacy of CLARK’s destructive social and sexual engineering permeating through all levels of her secular society. Lets hope John KEY can lead us out of it.

    None of the commentators seem to have picked up on Parekura’s lavish patronage of Chinese restaurants. I endorse the final comment of Rufus…scum THEIVING scum, the media tiptoe around with all sorts of weasel words when Criminal is the one they need.

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  30. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    i do so like a good lentil stew..

    ..and it is so very good for you…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  31. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    bacster..is that how you feel about tim ‘hic!’ groser…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  32. Michael (896 comments) says:

    It’s not just Tizard that is causing Labour a problem – the next few candidates after her are Burton, Okeroa, Gallagher and Hereroa. While not likely to be as unpopular as Tizard they are hardly going to set the world on fire.

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  33. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    For Yvettes eyes only:

    Ah you are obviously the woman of taste and discernment that I have been searching for all my life Yvette.
    What Je ne sais quoi you have to be watching Shrek the Sheep. (one of my idols).
    My heart throbs with passion. I must meet you after lambing is over.

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  34. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    ew…!

    again…

    further ‘damaging’ images…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  35. Yvette (2,692 comments) says:

    ‘Phlu –

    “ew … !”
    is right, but it is spelt ‘ewe’. I would have thought you’d know that, having spent so much time in a library
    .. eh…?

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  36. Yvette (2,692 comments) says:

    “Private & Confidential for Johnboys eyes only”
    J’ai entendu l’expression suivante durant une conversation mais ne suis pas sûre de connaître l’équivalent français: en avoir la mâchoire qui tombe d’étonnement?

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  37. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    For Yvettes eyes only:

    If my words astonish you that is what I intended.

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  38. Banana Llama (1,105 comments) says:

    -.-. — …- . -. – .-. -.– / – — / .-.. — -. -.. — -. / -.-. — — . / .. -. / .-.. — -. -.. — -. / -.-. .- -. / -.– — ..- / …. . .- .-. / — . / — …- . .-.

    .. eh… ¿

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  39. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    no no..!

    a ewe..a ewe…

    ..is a female sheep…

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  40. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    You (ewe) sound like you(ewe) are auditioning for “The Sound of Music” phool. :)

    Doe a deer a female deer.
    Ray a drop of golden sun.
    Me A name I call myself.

    etc……etc…..eh…?

    songbird are we…whoar….?

    No Magpie though….eh?….?

    Shit here’s Paula….eh?

    (Johnboy.Sheepshagger.Lalaland. just like phool)

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  41. Rod (236 comments) says:

    @ Redbaiter “Newspapers and editorial writers I reckon are guilty of a far greater betrayal of trust in foregoing their responsibility to present objective journalism, and instead pushing the Progressive political barrow.”

    Summed up rather well here:
    http://calderup.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/tradecraft-of-propaganda/

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  42. V (668 comments) says:

    Winston Peters has denied using his credit card, but it is clear from the records that his staff charged many items to it claiming they were expenses, never mind a reminder of the “unarguable” policy that credit cards not be used for personal expenditure, regardless of repayment.

    There’s nothing quite like a Winston in denial mode (which is the default setting), let me guess he can’t comment because the case is now sub judice.

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  43. reid (15,947 comments) says:

    We have an underperforming govt overall because on a permanent basis regardless of stripe, we always end up with a mix of sometimes excellent, sometimes appalling and sometimes really lousy governors who frequently it seems battle it out with the local village idiot over the annual title for worst performance ever. My brother reckons one of the reasons for this is that we don’t pay them enough. I’ve been thinking about this for a number of years and am coming round to his perspective.

    For the power they wield, all politicians the world over, are a pretty mixed bunch. Their almost universal sense of entitlement however affects people in the excellent and also in the other categories: e.g. c.f. Tizard vs Jones re: competence index. Frankly for the power they wield and the hours they work it’s not a lot. (Yes I know that doesn’t apply to the idiots because they just don’t work but never mind.)

    Personally I’d whack their salary up to: PM $1m+; Ministers $600-800k; BB’s $400k. This would be an undetectable blip in the current account. Yes I know we have to pay for the idiots as well, but I can’t avoid that, unless you want to appoint me as the selector in which case I can.

    I just can’t believe any of the idiots ever thought could get away with it. I mean the Nats did this because they were pissed off with what Liarbore did to them re: this about a year previous. But clearly the natural nastiness inherent within Liarbore’s very soul, triumphed over what was a fairly basic political risk assessment.

    Good thing too about Groser, who’s position is quite rightly the reason for his particular expenditure. Just a shame the state-owned broadcast MSM didn’t even consider this angle, preferring instead to write their propaganda as if the possibility didn’t even exist and not explore that angle at all, which was quite frankly mind-numbingly predictable and boring but I wish those wankers would get the message that were’re not all thick and we’d like some astute analysis rather than just boring lightweight superficial angles. You bastards.

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  44. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    didnt take long for the race card to get played………

    http://news.tangatawhenua.com/archives/5617

    “Is Racism alive and well in NZ media? ….. But then we have strayed from the true issue. Was the initial reporting racist in that it payed particular attention to our Maori MPs?”

    FFS whats the point in trying to resolve treaty issues with fucked thinking like that? The highest percentage of these thieving MPs happen to be maori so makes not paying attention to them unavoidable

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  45. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Christ I get really pissed with this. Why didn’t Queen Vicky kill all the pesky niggers…..eh? :)

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  46. reid (15,947 comments) says:

    I actually hope Jones can stay. I think he’d make an excellent leader and I hope he can find a way through this.

    This is a hopey not a logical thing, fingers crossed.

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  47. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Summed up rather well here:”

    Thanks for that link Rod, an interesting read.

    Of course the editors are wagging their fingers now, but the truth is that this credit card abuse only came to light in the first instance because of bloggers (in the UK). As so many things come to light that the mainstream media is either too yellow or too partisan to expose.

    Glenn Beck is doing today what the mainstream media should have been doing years ago. The internet and FOX news and talk radio now provide the safeguards that the frontline media once did, whilst mainstream journalists and editors are just pals with the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats. Just another arm of the same thieving cronyist organisation that gave rise to Shane Jones and his ilk or Obama and his Chicago thugs.

    Whilst politicians who cheated on the trust they were given are indeed subject to a pretty intense degree of public odium, the editors seem blissfully unaware that they themselves crossed that threshold some decades ago.

    We don’t need them to pretend to be public watchdogs. They have failed completely in their duty. They have betrayed their profession. They are partisan traitors to journalism. And we have better watch dogs now, those facilities that naturally grew to fill the void created by the media’s malfeasance.

    So editors, you can take your sanctimonious finger wagging and shove it. Its far too late for you to turn up to the party, and you’re no longer welcome or needed. Save your editorial space for global warming propaganda or some other politically correct Progressive rubbish you pathetic cowardly useless weasels.

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  48. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I think he’d make an excellent leader”

    Which is yet another example of how amazingly fucked your judgement can be. The day I would need such a pompous vain posturing porn addicted trougher as a leader is the day pigs loop F111s under the harbour bridge.

    The fool is a disgrace to New Zealand.

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  49. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Yeah yeah Red. But it’s just so lascivious, it’s just so lubricious, give the gutter press their time in the sun.

    Shit Shaney having a wank on the taxpayers. Now that’s news. Who really gives a shit about hip operations.

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  50. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Speaking of wankers whats happened to the minister for extracurricular rooting?
    Surely my old mate Trev, my local MP and cheerleader for that old school of dawks that can’t keep their tools in their pockets should feature here.
    So far I’ve heard nothing. Is he that discreet or have we just not heard anything yet?
    Are the journalists up to the M’s yet. Watch this space. All will be revealed.

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  51. reid (15,947 comments) says:

    Jones has been a consistent bloke always even in the way he’s been responding to this and he’s a bloke I both trust and like, a camp within which there are very few, politician-wise, JT and Willie being two others.

    He seems to me to be intelligent, results-focused, hard-working.

    I don’t care if he did something really fucking stupid because newsflash: that’s what happens to everyone: never did anything really stupid?

    The reason I don’t care is because it doesn’t obviate his performance, which has till now been stellar.

    Let’s face it RB, the ratio of idiots vs. excellent in Parliament is pretty and on any reading, too, durned small. Jones isn’t in the idiot camp he’s in the rare-spotted-bluefinch-camp-of-a-politician-who-actually-in-fact-is-excellent, so IMO, we should keep him.

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  52. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Lets face it reid.
    He is really in the fat gutted, wanking, useless, mind-numbingly boring, ugly camp.
    Dead as a viable politician.
    Just because you fancy him is no reason for any of the above descriptions to change and the reason for that is that you and your opinions are totally irrelevant.

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  53. reid (15,947 comments) says:

    “Just because you fancy him is no reason for any of the above descriptions to change and the reason for that is that you and your opinions are totally irrelevant.”

    Yes I know Johnboy and I brood upon it constantly.

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  54. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “He seems to me to be intelligent,”

    Fuck me. Have you ever heard him speak?? He’s a complete fucking bozo. Intelligent? Pfffft.. like a fucking two toed sloth is intelligent.

    “his performance, which has till now been stellar.”

    Stellar????!!!!! Stellar??????. Off the fucking planet is more like it. The man is a posturing buffoon. Worthless, a measure of how utterly fucked NZ politics is today that such a transparent shallow self important moron can actually be part of our governance. Its no surprise that he’s whacking himself off for a large part of the day.

    “we should keep him.”

    Its a damn slur on the whole of the country that he’s any kind of representative. Porn addicted bozo. I wouldn’t trust him to operate a stop go sign on a road repair gang.

    “JT and Willie being two others?”

    You’re completely out of your mind Reid, and shouldn’t be allowed to vote on the grounds of insanity.

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  55. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    I suggest psychotherapy. Brooding is bad for the soul.

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  56. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    To reid he is intelligent Red. Psychotherapy is reid’s only hope.

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  57. reid (15,947 comments) says:

    Have you looked at his career?

    It’s not bad.

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  58. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    I have looked at his face.
    I have looked at his pot gut.
    I have read his visa receipts.
    I have watched his sordid confession.
    His career is irrelevant.
    He is fucked.

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  59. reid (15,947 comments) says:

    So you’re not a supporter then?

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  60. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Until now I never realized what a sharp mind you have reid.
    I will never underestimate you again.

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  61. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Sorry mispoke: Should have been “never overestimate” Sorry.

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  62. SHG (363 comments) says:

    Do Ministerial cards rack up frequent flyer points?

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  63. WestonMan (3 comments) says:

    What’s all this nonsense about conscience votes and the Labour party anyway? Doesn’t anyone remember Asaf Choudry (Minister for Abstentions) and the Prostitution Reform vote? He wasn’t allowed to vote with his and his constituents’ beliefs.

    Labour party members vote the way they’re told if they know what’s good for their career. At least, when Helen was around to tell them which way to vote. I suspect they’re a tad more rudderless now.



    Hmmm…so Christ Carter spent the most on massages in South America and Southeast Asia. Makes me suspect Chris is a giver not a taker, and likes them bronzed and smaller than himself, and youthful too I would imagine…

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