General Debate 18 June 2010

June 18th, 2010 at 8:00 am by David Farrar
Tags:

95 Responses to “General Debate 18 June 2010”

  1. Eisenhower (137 comments) says:

    Hey, look at that…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Say Goodbye to Hollywood (562 comments) says:

    Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    Merely sleeping.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    Chapter 3 of the demise of the Euro and continued meltdown of the financial markets?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10652681

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Eddie (288 comments) says:

    How small a tactical nuke would do the job…….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3825672/Mum-bashed-by-pregnant-women

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. mattyroo (1,028 comments) says:

    What’s the bet they’re all on the benefit, including the “victim”: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3825672/Mum-bashed-by-pregnant-women

    It’s high time that anybody convicted of an offence, has every benefit removed from them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    Firs……

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Bernard Orsman does a huge stretch this morning;

    “Brown’s dinner helps ex-bikie sing new tune”

    sure he was a once a bikie, but has been a professional entertainer since 1994 …. – read the guys bio
    http://www.tenorgeoffknight.com/index

    I must go to fill my car at BP – I could say its an environmental fundraiser to clean up oil spills in the US

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Gerrit (107 comments) says:

    When GrumpyOldHori has this attitude towards bullying and violence

    Time to send a couple of Cuzzies around to tell him to pack a bag and fuck off ?

    Why is it not suprising that violence is prevalent in a certain section of our community.

    Eight on to one?

    How very brave these people are. Not.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    @ Patrick – I daresay Bernard had assistance to write that story. I would be highly surprised if it does not contain the DNA of David Lewis, former Chief Press Secretary to Helen Clark, and a member of Team Brown.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. mattyroo (1,028 comments) says:

    The fat useless bitch Tizard is clearly lying here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10652663

    The receipt says there was only 3 at the LUNCH, and it also included a bottle of Allan Scott Sauvignon Blanc, yet Tizard says that she had Hepatitis and wasn’t drinking! So the other two guests had a bottle each…..

    Hmmm, Adam Bennett, Me thinks you need to investigate this further.

    [DPF: 20 demerits for abusive terms]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    It is an ex-parrot

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    It’s bleedin’ demised!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Eee’s snuffed it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    No, no…..No, ‘e’s stunned!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Well, he’s…he’s, ah…probably pining for the fjords.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    PININ’ for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got ‘im home?

    That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not ‘alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein’ tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.

    (…Hmmm, reminds me of someone…eh..?)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    From The Secret Policeman’s Ball – here ’tis, live

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    I suspect not all will agree with this:

    There is now little doubt we’re all going to have to adapt to a sharp increase in sea level

    Polar scientists are united on the likelihood of level rises – but how much and when? When 2500 polar scientists gathered in Oslo this month to compare notes at the conclusion of the International Polar Year, a common thread ran through their presentations and papers:

    “Unless we better understand the probable melt rate of ice in Antarctica and Greenland we haven’t a hope of being adequately prepared for the inevitable sea level rise in the decades ahead.”

    Is this another case of over dramatising the message overshadowing the science?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. mickysavage (786 comments) says:

    Why was PEDA offered exclusive access to $4.8m crown funding? And is it true that they are strongly linked to actual and potential National Party Samoan candidates? And what is that word that starts with “C”?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    @Pete, so we need to better understand something that is probable, but the results are inevitable?

    So, yes, over dramatising IMO. But I’m no longer surprised by that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    I love the parrot thread guys – thanks!!! Its a joy reading this blog sometimes …. … :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Swiftman the infidel (329 comments) says:

    # mattyroo (243) Says:
    June 18th, 2010 at 8:22 am

    “The fat useless bitch Tizard is clearly lying here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10652663 The receipt says there was only 3 at the LUNCH, and it also included a bottle of Allan Scott Sauvignon Blanc, yet Tizard says that she had Hepatitis and wasn’t drinking! So the other two guests had a bottle each…..Hmmm, Adam Bennett, Me thinks you need to investigate this further.” [DPF: 20 demerits for abusive terms]

    Shouldn’t truth be a defense to demerit points?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. mattyroo (1,028 comments) says:

    Not much conveyancing going on at the moment Greg Presland?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. mattyroo (1,028 comments) says:

    Yeah swifty, I was wondering which term it was that earned the demerits?

    I guess it was the implication that Adam Bennett hadn’t done his job properly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    “Shouldn’t truth be a defense to demerit points?”

    Can’t points be made without unnecessary nastiness?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    It was ‘bitch’ that did it IMO. ‘Fat’ is a matter of public, photographic record. ‘Lazy’ is a matter of public, parliamentary record. ‘Bitch’ is opinion, and a 20 point one by the looks.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Nookin (3,347 comments) says:

    An interesting debate between competing interests.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3825801/Gay-claims-in-Customs-strip-search-court-case

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Mike (3,234 comments) says:

    Nookin
    I read that in the Dompost and thought “how come there were no other males but a homosexual on the ashift to do invasive searches?

    Sounds like there is a problem inside the leadership of Christchurch customs to me.

    If they won’t let men do invasive searches on women why do they allow homosexual men to do them on men?
    Doesn’t make sense.
    Sounds like a human rights violation to me.
    Maybe the team leader in Christchurch needs his ass sued and the spokesman needs a posting to uzbekistan for a few years.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Mike (3,234 comments) says:

    http://doodle.com/main.html

    hey guys have you ever used this.
    Just made a meeting for 6 people to find who is free to meet next week.
    cool bananas

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. mawm (211 comments) says:

    If they won’t let men do invasive searches on women why do they allow homosexual men to do them on men?

    FFS – what are you expecting? A quick feel up or a full anal probe? I doubt if homosexual men have an interest in ‘straight’ men, just as I doubt that they are pedophiles. Sure some are, just as some hetero’s are.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/joyce-casts-doubts-maori-4g-claim-124775

    Good.

    I’m all for the right of Maori to be heard, but F*CK OFF, IF THESE FREQUENCY BANDWIDTHS ARE ANYONE’S “TAONGA” THEN THEY ARE MY WHITE-ARSE TAONGA EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS THEY ARE YOURS.

    Why not claim ownership of the red frequencies of visible light also?

    Odd moments like these I really suspect many Maoris want to be New Zealand’s royalty, sitting on their arses doing nothing and collecting their taxes / tithes / whatever.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Want to be? They bloody well already are.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. gravedodger (1,566 comments) says:

    With very limited alternative information source as I start my day, I find myself listening to Hosking most weekday mornings and on Fridays as he closes the last 1/2 hour he has a session with Jeremy Wells and Whiney Wendyl Nissen, and this morning she was at her whiney socialist best with a pathetic defense of Lyen Brown.
    “I am so over this, he Shane Jones and Chris Carter are fine politicians and did nothing more than anyone in the private sector does” (paraphrased)
    The pathetic,”world famous in her head”, “vacant space”, does not seem to see any connection between the arrogant disregard for and complete entitlement to what these troughing pigs see as their right as a reward in addition to their well paid public service. The moral, lawful, and acceptable standard of behavior that a significant majority of tax and rate payers believe just does not apply to socialists. This lamentable attitude seems to permeate all levels of the socialist left and their supporters.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    The private sector doesn’t use my money for their troughing.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    Brilliant article by Peter O’Rourke on the state of U.S. education. Quite applicable here too:
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/end-them-don%E2%80%99t-mend-them

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    What charming mums those ladies are going to be eh matty.

    Disgusting.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. starboard (2,537 comments) says:

    Kristyann Tairakena, 19, Puawaioterangi Munro, 26, Moana Grace, 20, Carmell Waihape, 19, Toni Nathan, 22, Emily Tairakena, 17, Shavon Waihape, 22, …

    ..hmm..what have these trash all got in common…hmm…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Sonny Blount (1,782 comments) says:

    I suspect not all will agree with this:

    There is now little doubt we’re all going to have to adapt to a sharp increase in sea level

    Polar scientists are united on the likelihood of level rises – but how much and when? When 2500 polar scientists gathered in Oslo this month to compare notes at the conclusion of the International Polar Year, a common thread ran through their presentations and papers:

    “Unless we better understand the probable melt rate of ice in Antarctica and Greenland we haven’t a hope of being adequately prepared for the inevitable sea level rise in the decades ahead.”

    Is this another case of over dramatising the message overshadowing the science?

    A recently released study has determined that 23 out of 30 Pacific Islands are growing, so yes, it’s overdramatising.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    heh

    Don’t their children look to have a great and bright future, no doubt they will end up as dole bludging criminals as well unfortunately. Hopefully CYFS will take their kids off them at birth and foster them out to a caring and loving family, so they have some hope.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. starboard (2,537 comments) says:

    unfortunately it will be ” Once were Warriors ” repeated over again…and again….and again…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Check this out if you wanna rage even more starboard

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3827640/Grandmother-jailed-for-grand-daughters-death

    5 and a half years the price of a childs life? No doubt will be out in 3 if she behaves well.
    And manslaughter for smashing a babys skull hard enough to give it bleeding on the brain? What a fucking joke

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. si_rangi (60 comments) says:

    And while alluding to things Maori, and being of Maori decent, I can’t quite work out what Len was doing beating his head and chest in some sort of ‘Maori’ gesture. Its been bugging me for a couple of days. Can someone enlighten me a little, maybe it is specific to some iwi, not mine though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    “Odd moments like these I really suspect many Maoris want to be New Zealand’s royalty, sitting on their arses doing nothing and collecting their taxes / tithes / whatever.”

    Many with Maori ancestry possibly do, but the majority probably don’t. I tend to make a distinction between the entitlement activists and the majority of those with Maori ancestry despite the activists claiming to speak for them. The reality is the majority of those with Maori ancestry aren’t spoken for by activists who feel entitled simply because a long time ago some portion of their ancestry was here as part of the initial cohort of people. The majority just keep on keeping on.

    I guess it’s similar to the famous question: “Can the subaltern speak?” There are people in power claiming to speak for the majority, but the reality is they are superimposing their own desires over those with the same ancestry in order for gains to their system. Gain to the system as opposed to the actual people within it; that is to say, they gain property, rights, money, whatever for themselves and the tribe (the system and those who head it), but the majority of that does little for the proverbial man in the street. Not nothing – they need to be able to make claim that they are helping the proverbial man in the street rather than just enriching their own interests.

    Often the little will not actually take anything away from them as they advocate special rights for those with Maori ancestry. This is so when the man in the street starts to say, “What have you, the movement or the tribe that I link my ancestry to, done for me and mine?”, they can, for example, say “Well, we advocated for quotas of those with Maori ancestry in limited entry courses at universities to ensure that there are Maori doctors/lawyers/whatever.” (Quotas to my knowledge are not mandatory, but some universities have them.) Thus they appear to be concerned about the man in the street.

    It’s why there is an industry and ridiculous claims such as those for airwaves and the like, rather than people trying to settle once and for all.

    Call it the cynical view if you want.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Repton (769 comments) says:

    @Pete, so we need to better understand something that is probable, but the results are inevitable?

    So, yes, over dramatising IMO. But I’m no longer surprised by that.

    Well, it’s not necessarily a contradiction — there could be a consensus that Greenland and Antarctic glaciers are melting, which will necessarily lead to sea-level rise, but they haven’t reached consensus on the most probable rate of melting.

    Although of course, the story has by now been filtered through at least one newspaper, which means the scientists have been interpreted by non-scientists with a bias for hyping things up … so who knows what they really think?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Repton (769 comments) says:

    A recently released study has determined that 23 out of 30 Pacific Islands are growing, so yes, it’s overdramatising.

    What study is this?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    From Judith Tizard

    I was hosting a dinner. I didn’t want New Zealand to be seen fussing about what were small issues.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/06/buy-new-zealand-made-yeah-right.html

    With an attitude like that to the nickel and dime stuff, is it any wonder that our pollies have a problem managing the macro stuff?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    @Repton – take your pick.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Repton, Pacific Islands mostly not shrinking: from TVNZ http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nz-research-shows-pacific-islands-not-shrinking-3577883

    The study found only 4 out of 27 islands had actually shrunk, while more had in fact gained in area

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. cabbage (455 comments) says:

    I doubt if homosexual men have an interest in ’straight’ men

    Actually, i know many homosexual men who do quite relish the ‘sport’ of ‘scoring’ a straight man.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    On the grandmother jailed for grand-daughter’s death, I ask: What is the likely consequence of deliberately hitting somebody hard enough to cause a subdural haematoma, or brain bleeding?

    I suggest firstly that as there is a law against hitting children – which was highly publicised – there is knowledge that one should not hit children. Secondly, I suggest that even before the law, it did not extend to protection for hitting a child in such a manner that they would receive severe head injuries. Thirdly, I suggest if one hits a child that hard, a likely result is death. Finally, I suggest that given the combination of a law which prohibits physical punishment of a child and the action of deliberately hitting a child that hard, given one of the likely results, there is malice aforethought.

    Another question I feel it’s pertinent to ask: is the charge and the sentence a deterrent to the individual and the general public?

    Guilty plea to manslaughter and a sentence of five years and nine months. Probably released in a little over three years for good behaviour.

    I suggest that in the case of this individual, it is probably a deterrent. However, in the more general sense of deterrence I suggest that the plea for manslaughter being accepted is not. Too often, it seems, manslaughter pleas or even manslaughter charges are accepted those who harm children in an egregious manner. This fails as a deterrent effect. The stigma of manslaughter is far less than the stigma of murder. If the charge was murder, regardless of degree, I suggest there may be a more significant deterrent effect on potential offenders.

    I know there are some legal eagles here. Can you please explain to me where I am wrong?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    It’s sorta normal for coral islands to grow. Also volcanic islands. And it’s not uncommon for other land masses to be pushed upwards, especially on the edge of colliding plates (like the Southern Alps).

    Key issues are whether they can outgrow rising sea levels, and whether the coral will stay alive if the water temperatures rise.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Repton (769 comments) says:

    Repton, Pacific Islands mostly not shrinking: from TVNZ http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nz-research-shows-pacific-islands-not-shrinking-3577883

    Ah, that is interesting.

    Points from the article:
    1. Sea levels are rising, currently averaging 2mm/year over the last 60 years.
    2. Rising sea levels will not necessarily drown the islands, because the islands are growing due to other factors — notably, slow continuous growth from eroding coral, and occasional dumps of sediment from cyclones.
    3. 23 of the 27 islands measured have not shrunk, and seven have grown by 3% or more over the past 60 years.

    Not quite the message I got from Sonny Blount’s post (which I thought implied that the islands were growing because sea levels were falling). If I were the leader of a small pacific island, I think I’d still agree with this:

    “Unless we better understand the probable melt rate of ice in Antarctica and Greenland we haven’t a hope of being adequately prepared for the inevitable sea level rise in the decades ahead.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Repton (769 comments) says:

    It’s also good news for all those internet companies that bought .tv domain names, since Tuvalu is one country commonly considered at risk of disappearing :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. mawm (211 comments) says:

    Russell Norman has Tibetan flag ripped out of his hands by Chinese VP’s security. Big hoo-hah at parly now. Norman is a twit being deliberately provocative now protesting about anti-democratic behavior of Chinese……like he would not recognize democracy if it bit him in the bum.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    Red Russ roughed up by Chinese security.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3825646/MPs-Tibet-protest-flag-removed

    Pity the Chinese did not deal with him in a more forceful manner.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    @Repton – These are worth a look too: Sea Level Rises…What Sea Level Rises?, and NZers misled by unfounded sea level claims

    Note that Nils-Axel Morner is the former emeritus head of the paleogeophysics and geodynamics department at Stockholm University.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. kevin_mcm (152 comments) says:

    head over to interest.co.nz and see the Jon Stewart clip from the 10 for 10 today – absolutely amazingly funny. Read the rest of the items if you want to become seriously depressed (as per normal)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Pity the Chinese did not deal with him in a more forceful manner

    No market for his organs :D

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Grant (444 comments) says:

    Light humour….

    Mr. Jones booking into a hotel asks the receptionist “Is the Porn channel in my room disabled?”

    “No,” she replies “it’s just regular porn you sick bastard.”

    G

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Chicken Little (741 comments) says:

    Sea levels are rising, currently averaging 2mm/year over the last 60 years.

    Who give a fuck?

    The point is that NOTHING in climate or in the effects of climate change is static. It’s always changed, and it always will.

    What these 2500 esteemed scientists need to show is how much of any change can be DIRECTLY attributed to man, by show I mean empirical evidence from actual observation not some bullshit ‘what if’ scenario dialed into their computer models.

    As has been recently shown by viking burial sites uncovered by receding ice in Greenland the ice level and presumably temperature were higher in the early centuries of the last millennium prior to any major man-made pollution. Thats only 1000 – 1200 years ago. Funnily enough the same time the migration/s of proto-Maori are thought to have occurred. Within a couple of hundred years Maori had stopped doing large ocean voyages. Why? Climate change? Ocean currents changing? Enough resources here? Who knows but they never started it again and the art of building sea going canoes was lost.

    There are multiple spots around the world where previous civilisations have had to move to higher ground because of rising sea levels, again prior to any major man made pollution. In fact the reason anthropologists have such a hard time tracking mans spread around the planet back in the day is because in some areas sea levels have risen by as much as 120 meters and as the seaside gave early man a much better choice of resources thats where he lived. All lying under water now.

    From the story PG linked to –

    Rather there will be a cumulative, run-away effect as the greenhouse influence raises ocean temperatures, shifts ocean currents and alters the frequency of climatic events

    That is post normal science at it’s best. Obviously this ‘cumulative, run-away effect’ is well documented and highly proven in multiple peer reviewed papers? No? Oh….they just made it up. This is exactly the type of crap that needs to stop. This is not science.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Poliwatch (335 comments) says:

    Does anyone know what Judith Tizard is doing at the moment?

    No doubt she has found some suitable trough to slop around in but really not sure what it would be given that Labour doesn’t really want her around. Perhaps she is representing the Unemployed.

    Can anyone help?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Repton said: “Not quite the message I got from Sonny Blount’s post (which I thought implied that the islands were growing because sea levels were falling).”

    Sonny Blount said: “A recently released study has determined that 23 out of 30 Pacific Islands are growing, so yes, it’s overdramatising.” (in response to something Pete George posted)

    Anything I’m missing Repton? I’d prefer not to jump to conclusions about you without you having the chance to defend yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Sonny Blount (1,782 comments) says:

    I think what could be done for those island nations that expect to be ‘rescued’ from AGW, is all fossil fuel powered shipments to and from them should cease.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    The growing of islands has nothing to do with sea levels falling and little or nothing to do with climate change – although it’s possible temperature changes affect coral growth and deterioration rates.

    BTW, the natural cycle of sea levels during interglacials reaches at least 4 -6 metres higher than today, so until this threshold is exceeded, no anthropogenic effects are demonstrable

    That sounds like nonsense, it’s quite feasible for anthropogenic effects to be demonstrated long before historic maximums are reached (albeit difficult due to complexity of related systems).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    U.S. bureaucracy and red-tape gone mad:

    Coast Guard Orders Barges to Stop

    “The Coast Guard came and shut them down,” Jindal said. “You got men on the barges in the oil, and they have been told by the Coast Guard, ‘Cease and desist. Stop sucking up that oil.'”

    A Coast Guard representative told ABC News today that it shares the same goal as the governor.
    “We are all in this together. The enemy is the oil,” said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Dan Lauer.

    But the Coast Guard ordered the stoppage because of reasons that Jindal found frustrating. The Coast Guard needed to confirm that there were fire extinguishers and life vests on board, and then it had trouble contacting the people who built the barges.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Sonny Blount (1,782 comments) says:

    The growing of islands has nothing to do with sea levels falling and little or nothing to do with climate change

    I think you mean climate change has little or nothing to do with the growth of islands.

    That sounds like nonsense, it’s quite feasible for anthropogenic effects to be demonstrated long before historic maximums are reached

    Really? You would have to know precisley what all of the natural influences are and when they occur. Having a broad term to describe effects such as ‘milankovich cylces’ does not mean we precisely understand or know all of them.

    So tell me Pete, when will we enter the next glacialiation cycle, what will the sea level be and what will the rate of change to that point and then to maximum glaciation be?

    Also what will cause the next glaciation and please describe how you know that your explanation comprises the complete range of effects.

    Once your predictions have been proven correct, you will have some credibility.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    I didn’t realise you had to know everything to prove anything. All science must have no credibility.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    One solution to the problem of the Gulf Spill and the US Presidency

    change the job description of the Presidency

    What can Obama do well? He can give speeches and say positive things. Can’t we make it so the presidency involves only doing that? We wouldn’t be the first country to do it; in Israel, the president is basically an apolitical, ceremonial figurehead.
    ……
    It would be perfect for him; he’d be like our own Queen of England.
    ……
    Either way, once we get it done, think of how much better a president we’ll have. With the oil spill, he’ll go to a beach and look all concerned and vow that action must be taken, and then we’ll have to agree he’s doing a great job as president because you wouldn’t expect a figurehead to do anything more than that. And as for the economy, Obama would go on TV and say, “We will create more jobs. We will have a strong economy again. Yes we can!”

    I’m having dinner tonight with an old and beloved friend who’s in from the US for a few weeks. It will be interesting to see if the KoolAid has worn off. Either way, it’s going to be fun time.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    RRM:Why not claim ownership of the red frequencies of visible light also?

    They should claim gravity as a Taonga then sue the hydropower people.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    @Chick Little 1:54pm – Here’s an example of a submerged city: BBC News: Lost city ‘could rewrite history’.

    36m beneath the sea, thought to be 9000 years old. Simple maths (ie devoid of any IPCC-style ‘adjustments’) puts average, natural sea-level rises at ~4mm/yr over that period.

    Actual, measured rises in recent times have been approaching 0mm, meaning rate has probably been much higher long before mankind had the hubris to think we could control the earth’s climate.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    Krazy, if the 9000 year date is accurate-ish the rate of sea level rise would have been much greater then as there would have been massive melt from the recent ice age, so simple maths averages over the whole period are meaningless.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    @Pete – Noted, and the BBC story says as much.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    In today’s Hitler spoof video, Hitler is annoyed by the Vuvuzela soccer horns :D

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Repton (769 comments) says:

    Repton said: “Not quite the message I got from Sonny Blount’s post (which I thought implied that the islands were growing because sea levels were falling).”

    Sonny Blount said: “A recently released study has determined that 23 out of 30 Pacific Islands are growing, so yes, it’s overdramatising.” (in response to something Pete George posted)

    Anything I’m missing Repton? I’d prefer not to jump to conclusions about you without you having the chance to defend yourself.

    Well, start with Pete George’s post, which quotes an article saying sea levels are rising, and asks if it is overdramatising.

    Sonny Blount replies saying “Yes, it’s overdramatising because Pacific Islands are growing”, according to a “recently released study” which he didn’t supply.

    So I thought that the study must show that islands are growing because sea levels are falling — else, why bring it up? The original article was about rising sea levels, not about shrinking coral islands.

    I’m not sure what conclusion you want to draw about me from all this.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    The Friday haiku

    despair in the gulf
    BP deep pockets short arms
    Tony gets life back?

    Apologies for the late post – and my recent absence: it’s been a busy week.

    A quick glance through today’s GD reassured me that the many deranged regulars are alive and well. God bless them. They reassure the rest of us of our sanity.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    Not the only bullshit that’s been flowing. Obama has struggled to deal with it practically and politically. But a major clanger today from Republican congressman Joe Barton:

    “I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday. I think it is a tragedy in the first proportion, that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown – in this case a $20bn shakedown.”

    “I’m only speaking for myself. I’m not speaking for anyone else, but I apologise. I do not want to live in a county where anytime a citizen or a corporation does something that is legitimately wrong, it is subject to some sort of political pressure that is, again, in my words, amounts to a shakedown. So I apologise.”

    Republicans with districts bordering on the Gulf publicly denounced Barton. “I condemn Mr Barton’s statement. Mr Barton’s remarks are out of touch with this tragedy,” said Republican Jeff Miller, who represents Pensacola in Florida, which has been hit by the effects of the spill.

    Barton was summoned to a meeting with Republican leaders John Boehner and whip Eric Cantor, and told: “‘Apologise, immediately. Or you will lose your position, immediately.”

    Barton’s office put out a statement that “retracted” his original apology to BP:

    “I apologise for using the term ‘shakedown’ with regard to yesterday’s actions at the White House in my opening statement this morning, and I retract my apology to BP… I regret the impact that my statement this morning implied that BP should not pay for the consequences of their decisions and actions in this incident.”

    http://joebartonwouldliketoapologize.com

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Sonny Blount (1,782 comments) says:

    I didn’t realise you had to know everything to prove anything. All science must have no credibility.

    Before you can ascribe an effect to a single cause, you must determine that it does not have any other cause.

    We simply don’t know all the effects that make up the shifts in our climate. Whatever forcings there are, always get reversed eventually.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Someone should ask Obama if he will shakedown Chevron and Esso for the efforts they have made in the Niger. Worse than this but further away.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    In this case, Sonny, “eventually” will be when there are not many of us around, especially us white fellas.

    But we will all be CO2 by then, anyway, so who gives a fuck?

    I continue to be amazed at the non-scientists who believe they know more about the climate system than the 2500 scientists mentioned in the Herald article.

    And Sonny, our knowledge of the climate system is more complete than it ever has been, to the extent that the uncertainties are only about extent, not the event.

    Tell me, exactly what are these unknown effects you know about?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Well said Viking2: I applaud you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..shakedown Chevron and Esso for the efforts they have made in the Niger..”

    yeah..all the seven sisters are utter bitches….

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..In today’s Hitler spoof video, Hitler is annoyed by the Vuvuzela soccer horns :D..”

    that’s very funny…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Sonny Blount (1,782 comments) says:

    How about, what is the effect of aerosols on climate Luc?

    Because all the models use a different made up forcing for aerosols in order to get them to approximate historical temperatures.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    Before you can ascribe an effect to a single cause, you must determine that it does not have any other cause.

    No one is trying to ascribe a single cause.

    We simply don’t know all the effects that make up the shifts in our climate.

    Correct, nor is anyone sure of the degree of affect that any have.

    Whatever forcings there are, always get reversed eventually.

    How do you know that?
    How do you know if “eventually” is soon enough to avoid major problems?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    @Pete George: Wait, what? Some people are stupid, huh?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    @PG: Just to be clear, I was responding to your comment about Joe Barton.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Hands up if you’re sick of hearing of the oil spill and the poor little pelicans and Big Bad Barky getting tough and angry.

    O/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    The Kenyan checking out some ass :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    And speaking on the president ‘looking the wrong way’… he’s coming in for a bit of criticism about his lack of action in respect of the oil spill, and he is seemingly unconcerned about the jibes about his golf efforts while the oil continues to flow.

    Does anyone think that this might be a convenient way to build his case for his repeated, increasingly unpopular attempts to push climate legislation though?

    “Last night President Obama reiterated his call for comprehensive energy and climate legislation to break our dependence on oil and fossil fuels. Next week he will be reaching out to senators on both sides of the aisle to chart a path forward.”

    If the president of the Unites States wanted the oil to stop flowing then the problem would have been fixed by now IMO.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    If the president of the Unites States wanted the oil to stop flowing then the problem would have been fixed by now IMO.

    Krazykiwi strikes again (admittedly late last night, probably after a few…)

    But has he ever heard of King Canute?

    What’s Obama going to do? Dive down like Superman and block the well with kryptonite?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote