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References to income disparity being a major cause of modern malaise seem to be more common:
Bruce Judson, a senior faculty fellow at the Yale School of Management blames the extraordinary rise in income inequality over the past 30 years for a much afflicted and angry middle class. He argues that without a strong middle class America is at risk – of violent revolution.
“Ultimately, political stability depends on a strong middle class. If we have a strong middle class, we will do fine. If our middle class disappears, we have a problem.”
He points out that the last time inequality rivalled current levels was in 1928, just before the Crash and the Great Depression.
In that case, the US escaped the Depression thanks to Roosevelt’s New Deal and World War II. Things are much worse today, with the US more divided than at any other time, into a tiny plutocracy of super-rich, on the one hand, and a fragile, indebted, unprotected “former middle class” on the other.
“Historically one of the reasons that economic inequality is such a predictor of political instability is that wealth and power go together. And the wealthy start to do things that distort the economy in all kinds of ways.”
The Israeli attack on the Gaza freedom flotilla was an act of lethal stupidity. Lethal for its victims, stupid for Israel. It might be well, therefore, to remind the Jewish people of their own history.
Two years after World War II, a rustbucket American steamship renamed Exodus 1947 sailed from France with 4515 Jews on board. Most were Holocaust survivors, bound for a new life in the Promised Land, then the British Mandate of Palestine.
The British refused to accept them as immigrants and stopped the ship off the Palestine coast. Three people were killed when the Royal Navy boarded it by force and sailed it to the port of Haifa. The Exodus 1947 Jews were eventually sent back to occupied Germany, of all places.
This was a priceless propaganda coup in the fight for an independent Jewish homeland. There was a tremendous international outcry. The novel Exodus, by Leon Uris, a bestseller based on the story of the ship, and the 1960 Hollywood film of the same name, starring Paul Newman, cemented the idea of Israel in the Western political and cultural imperative.
Some of this ought to have occurred to the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, when he ordered the commando assault on the Gaza flotilla. Evidently not. Beneath that silvery, Harvard-educated veneer there lies an unprincipled thug addicted to the use of Israeli military might and impervious to world opinion.
Endlessly repeating the errors of history, Israel now engages in a savage repression of the Palestinian people and their right to a homeland of their own. The policy platform of Netanyahu’s Likud party makes no bones about it.
”The government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan River,” it reads. ”The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs.”
New York Times today has an Op-Ed about how the jews can be just as stupid as any other race or country and the recent boarding is a perfect example of that stupidity … written by a jew who was brought up to believe that jews were something special … some are, some are not … like any other group.
A mate of mine with NZ First links posted this on a site he blogs for.
Personally I think it’s a load of rubbish (Winston First having an ASIAN co-leader lol) but it’s worth the 5 minutes reading if only for the lulz factor.
@ Badger – the thought of Winston Peters allowing ANYONE to share New Zealand First’s leadership with him is a flight of fantasy. Winston Peters IS New Zealand First.
True IV2 but it would be good for ACT for those Asian immigrants are much more aligned to ACT philosophy than any other. The Nats. have proven unreliable, they don’t qualify for Maori and generally would not be Labour voters.
“Police may now look at testing the reduced tolerance again at Labour Weekend. “I think it is too early to say [we will introduce it permanently].” ” – stuff.co
Good, just what we need. Another law that might mean 100 kph, or perhaps 110, or maybe 104.
This post from KiwiInAmerica in the early hours of the morning might have been missed by many but it is a point that is difficult (if not impossible) to argue with. The hypocrisy is amazing.
“Good, just what we need. Another law that might mean 100 kph, or perhaps 110, or maybe 104.”
We already got that, Gauleiter Fane Troy of the Peoples Democratic Republic of Taupo has told his bosses to get stuffed and instituted his own rules since February.
Hardly surprising when you can put the burden onto the taxpayer instead. Imagine a world where you can run your business without fear of failure no matter how stupid your decisions are?
The irony of this situation is stunning. Financial institutions are amongst the biggest profit makers and best remunerated “industries” (a sad joke really, there is no industry). It wouldn’t be unrealistic to expect them to be a bastion of the principles of the free market would it? No – instead (when it suits) they see nothing wrong in operating on the lines of a state funded, post war, communist tram factory. With one distinct difference, pay rates are a tad better.
I don’t advocate a tax but by the same token I believe none of these institutions are “too big to fail”. Business failure is a cornerstone of free market principles. Weak businesses fail and stronger businesses survive. If you are going to play the game you can’t dismiss the first rule in the book. Irony and hypocrisy defined.
This story will still be going long after the blockade story has disappeared from the mind. Sad little indictment of the priorities of our world.
“Taupo area road policing sergeant Fane Troy introduced a 5kmh speed tolerance level when Operation Trench kicked off in February … Given the striking results, Mr Troy confirmed the stance was here to stay.
“Yes, the operation itself has finished but because we have had such good results we’re going to keep our low tolerance level and stop those travelling 5kmh above the speed limit.”
So north of the Summit of the Desert Road you need to do no more than 105, south after tomorrow you can do 110.
I’m a big fan of the uncommonly sensible writing of Stanford University economics guru Thomas Sowell.
In his latest opinion editorial on the Atlasphere site, he argues that the best form of public service is private enterprise:
Many starry-eyed young adults who are fresh out of college have dreams of helping their fellow man via the public service sector. But when has a bureaucrat ever bestowed mass prosperity?
Every year about this time, big-government liberals stand up in front of college commencement crowds across the country and urge the graduates to do the noblest thing possible — become big-government liberals.
That isn’t how they phrase it, of course. Commencement speakers express great reverence for “public service,” as distinguished from narrow private “greed.” There is usually not the slightest sign of embarrassment at this self-serving celebration of the kinds of careers they have chosen — over and above the careers of others who merely provide us with the food we eat, the homes we live in, the clothes we wear and the medical care that saves our health and our lives.
What I would like to see is someone with the guts to tell those students: Do you want to be of some use and service to your fellow human beings? Then let your fellow human beings tell you what they want — not with words, but by putting their money where their mouth is.
You want to see more people have better housing? Build it! Become a builder or developer — if you can stand the sneers and disdain of your classmates and professors who regard the very words as repulsive.
Would you like to see more things become more affordable to more people? Then figure out more efficient ways of producing things or more efficient ways of getting those things from the producers to the consumers at a lower cost.
That’s what a man named Sam Walton did when he created Wal-Mart, a boon to people with modest incomes and a bane to the elite intelligentsia. In the process, Sam Walton became rich. Was that the “greed” that you have heard your classmates and professors denounce so smugly? If so, it has been such “greed” that has repeatedly brought prices down and thereby brought the American standard of living up.
Back at the beginning of the 20th century, only 15 percent of American families had a flush toilet. Not quite one-fourth had running water. Only three percent had electricity and one percent had central heating. Only one American family in a hundred owned an automobile.
By 1970, the vast majority of those American families who were living in poverty had flush toilets, running water and electricity. By the end of the twentieth century, more Americans were connected to the Internet than were connected to a water pipe or a sewage line at the beginning of the century.
More families have air-conditioning today than had electricity then. Today, more than half of all families with incomes below the official poverty line own a car or truck and have a microwave.
This didn’t come about because of the politicians, bureaucrats, activists or others in “public service” that you are supposed to admire. No nation ever protested its way from poverty to prosperity or got there through rhetoric or bureaucracies.
It was Thomas Edison who brought us electricity, not the Sierra Club. It was the Wright brothers who got us off the ground, not the Federal Aviation Administration. It was Henry Ford who ended the isolation of millions of Americans by making the automobile affordable, not Ralph Nader.
Those who have helped the poor the most have not been those who have gone around loudly expressing “compassion” for the poor, but those who found ways to make industry more productive and distribution more efficient, so that the poor of today can afford things that the affluent of yesterday could only dream about.
The wonderful places where you are supposed to go to do “public service” are as sheltered from the brutal test of reality as you have been on this campus for the last four — or is it six? — years. In these little cocoons, all that matters is how well you talk the talk. People who go into the marketplace have to walk the walk.
Colleges can teach many valuable skills, but they can also nourish many dangerous illusions. If you really want to be of service to others, then let them decide what is a service by whether they choose to spend their hard-earned money for it.
George Osborne is planning to eradicate Britain’s budget deficit by emulating Canada, where borrowing was brought under control within just three years by spending cuts of 20 per cent.
The Chancellor will announce a “once-in-a-generation” revolution in public spending inspired by Canada in the mid-1990s, when the government turned a budget deficit of nine per cent of GDP into a surplus.
Canada brought public spending under control guided by the principle that people should ask “what needs to be done by government and what we can afford to do“.
Key? Key? Where you are John Key? Are you prepared to set aside your smiling-but-neverthless-naked lust for continued power and do what’s right for NZ? We’re waiting …
Johnboy – the police need to split from the traffic bureaunazis immediately – before any credibility and respect they have left is completely gone.
We need to go back to a traffic division and the vehicles and uniforms should not remotely resemble the police livery. They should be in civvies, with fluoro jackets and invoice books instead of ticketing books. Traffic management and policing are different things.
Simple isn’t it.
How the fuck can those dopey tourists in camper vans get confused with our simple road rules well you may ask.
Refer all such questions to that font of all wisdom Reichsfuhrer Paula Rose of the road policing division.
With the grand success of the latest confusion which is already being lauded.
I suspect the next move will be to lower the tolerance to minus 5 kph so any one doing more than 95 will get pinged, that of course will be more than 90kph in Gauleiter Troys protectorate.
This will have the immediate effect of increasing revenue by 5000% but that is not its intention, it is solely for road safety considerations. (insert a “yeah right” here if you feel so inclined)
Taken to its logical conclusion this means that anyone who pulls out to pass a car in front that is going too slow will in fact have to slow down dropping back into the line of traffic ten cars further back than they started from as the passing lanes peter out.
This of course will remove the frustration of being behind the slow driver that annoyed them and contribute greatly to a lower accident rate.
# Puzzled in Ekatahuna (58) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 11:13 am
“Police may now look at testing the reduced tolerance again at Labour Weekend. “I think it is too early to say [we will introduce it permanently].” ” – stuff.co
Good, just what we need. Another law that might mean 100 kph, or perhaps 110, or maybe 104.
Meanwhile the disgracefully inconsiderate and downright dangerous driving of the incompetent many continues unabated and unpoliced.
I suspect the next move will be to lower the tolerance to minus 5 kph so any one doing more than 95 will get pinged, that of course will be more than 90kph in Gauleiter Troys protectorate.
Or perhaps, Johnboy, in a much similar vein, we should ticket drivers who ‘look’ as though they will break the speed limit – you know; a ‘thought crime’ type offence. Much like the guy who beats up another bloke, in contrast to the guy who beats up a bloke who happens to be a sodomite, and as a result gets a harsher penalty.
I can just see it in court now:
Cop: I could tell he was just about to speed, your honour, as his eyes were too close together, and so, in the public interest, I ticketed the accused before he could carry out his crime.
Judge (to the accused): The court finds you guilty, sir, and imposes the following sentence …
In my opinion speeding sodomites should get a greater fine for speeding than speeding heterosexuals after all its obvious that they are only speeding to get to their next disgusting encounter more rapidly.
I’m sure Paula Rose and Fane Troy will note your comments and act accordingly.
As we just had a joke from V2, I thought I would also share an oldie but a goodie, and one quite germane to recent events in the Middle East:
This guy called John goes fishing off a pier. He finally catches a fish, and is about to put him in the cooler when he hears the fish cry out “Oh No! Please don’t kill me. I’m the only talking fish in the world!” “Oh yeah?” says John “What’s your name?” “I’m Rusty, the only talking salmon in the world! Please let me loose!” John thinks about it for a moment and then decides to throw Rusty back. Five years later John goes fishing at the same place where he caught Rusty and after a few hours he catches this huge salmon about 4 feet long. “Rusty?” says John. “John is that you?” asks Rusty. “Yeah, hi Rusty!” replies John. “So, watcha been doing?” questions Rusty. “Well, I’ve been working and keeping busy. What’ve you been doing, Rusty?” “Well John, while I was swimming, I found the Titanic, and it was so beautiful that I wrote a book of poems about it “Oh yeah? What’s it called?” queries John. Rusty then says: “It’s THE TITANIC VERSES, by SALMON RUSTY!”
[If you have to ask, then you obviously lack the knowlede that only age brings - hint 'a book' by Salman Rushdie]
Anyone care to comment on the 6 other flotilla ships boarded without incident?
Well done. Shame about the seventh.
Come on, Reid, you explain why only ONE of the seven vessels (two flotillas) required the Israelis to use deadly force to defend their lives, while the other six boardings went without incident? Remember, it takes two to tango, so to speak, and this was not a one sided affair, as the liberal Jew hating MSM, etc., would have us believe.
Kris K, your question may as well be asked about a street thug who got more than he bargained for. The Zionistas only had to use deadly force as their agression was met with resistance. Had they not been agressive, attacking an unarmed merchant vessel, then they would have not needed to ” defend themselves”.
A question for the unwashed left. Which of you brains trust chairmen were telling my brother to “go home” to Germany on Saturday?
On one side he’s 7th generation and on the other hes Maori. Coverting to Jeudaism doesn’t actually alter your heratige or DNA idiots.
Pretty rude coming from so of you who haven’t actually mastered English yet either and are waving the dflag of some other place. Always wondered what Germany was like in 1936, now we know.
Old Aussie family the Luqmans, used to farm camels out Alice Springs way back in the 1880′s.
Nice lad that Ahmed Luqman.
One thing you can say about the young scallywag–totally unbiased.
Used to do charitable works for old Rabbi Goldstein among the elderly Jewish folks at the Springs until he sailed off to Gaza.
Salt of the earth and a fine Australian.
It’s perception that matters here. That’s the only thing that matters.
Don’t you mean, ‘Perception ABOUT Israel’? I have little confidence that the other contributers to this event will come under the same magnifying glass as will Israel if any sort of enquiry were to proceed.
As the UN says, a full, transparent enquiry is required. And we should have one.
Is it even possible to mention the UN and “full, transparent enquiry” in respect to Israel in the same sentence?
Remember, we’re dealing with Israel here – any chance of a factual and objective enquiry occuring from an independent source has a bout as much chance as does Israel’s Islamist enemies accepting her right to exist.
Israel should just give the UN, and all her other protractors, the bird. Israel trying to appease her enemies, and I include the UN, has never worked in the past 62 years, and it will not work now. I think Israel is finally waking up to this fact, and about time, too.
You’re a fucktard billy. Something to add to your anti-Semitism.
When female body parts like billywanker are an example of the left Kris the only thing we can expect is free showers for all. the only real question is we’re going to let the socialists do the same thing again that they did in Germany. So far they have the media on side.
Is it even possible to mention the UN and “full, transparent enquiry” in respect to Israel in the same sentence?
Remember, we’re dealing with Israel here – any chance of a factual and objective enquiry occuring from an independent source has a bout as much chance as does Israel’s Islamist enemies accepting her right to exist.
Well that’s what transparent means: i.e. the IDF publishes everything it has, cleansed only to protect intelligence. After-action reports, mission planning, the lot. Look, Israel is fucked. It can’t spin this. There are dead people. The IDF killed them. Why the soldiers did it, I won’t speculate. It can’t be justified, given there are lots of non-lethal options from pepper-spray to nylon handcuffs to tasers. These were probably assault troops so expectedly strong and fit. The fact reports are saying there were multiple head-shots to at least one body, indicates they were in kill-mode: no wounding. What were their mission instructions re: deadly force? What was their rehearsal regime for dealing with a large crowd of angry muslims who could reasonably be expected not to react passively, given what was going down? Those are the sorts of things I want to know.
And if it is truly transparent, Israel will publish the original source documents. Note that I don’t expect this to happen. Israel will claim national security and publish very little, I expect.
the only real question is we’re going to let the socialists do the same thing again that they did in Germany.
Indeed, Murray (- and in the near future I believe us voicing our support for Israel, and our opposition to the socialist state, will likely end with us being incarcerated, or worse.)
Except this time it will be a global phenomenum, and will be under Hitler mark II.
And I have that on good authority – you know, my MAIN source of authority.
While I admire your ‘faith’ that Israel will receive a just hearing over this recent incident, Reid, I think history is against you. As Mike just mentioned – the Goldstone report – instills me with less than zero confidence in any sort of balanced and fact based independent report eventuating.
Apologise for cross threading but either you hadn’t thought of what it was like for the boarding team or didn’t know IDF anti terrorist doctrine.
# MikeNZ (2042) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
billyborker (1075) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
As you didn’t get it from the videos on the web, I’ll help.
Here I am being stabbed and clubbed and so is my mate who’s had his gun taken off of him.
I get my gun out and aim it the assailant turns (to run or take a swing) so I pop him back of the head bam, then turn to the one (s) who are trying to do my mate and bam, bam, both of them down also in the back of the head as they were facing away from me whilst bludgeoning my mate.
In the dark not having night vision (as my goggles were knocked off by the 2nd club hit) Rounds are going off at deck level amongst all the hullaboo and shouting allu ackbar and they don’t sound like our guns.
I turn towards someone firing and they turn to run to cover and bam I do him in the back of the head.
As per my training in close quarter combat against multiple assailants terrorists with (edged weapons or projectile weapons)
I shoot those I downed again in the head as I clear the area and enlarge the perimeter or move towards the gunfire. (procedures used by SAS and other special ops worldwide).
how hard is this Billy or don’t you want to know.
You do understand Israeli terrorist, doctrine don’t you?
1. try and save as many of the hostages as possible but kill all the terrorists.
2. stay alive
3. keep your team mates alive.
I repeat Kris, I don’t care what spin the reports put on it. Prima facie, Israel’s fucked. There is nothing it can do, to make itself look good. I don’t really understand why people are so desperate to put a positive spin on it.
So long as the report uncovers facts, I don’t care what else it says. My position is simple.
For whatever reason, the IDF used deadly force against civilians.
That seems wrong to me, so I’m awaiting further detail.
Do you have a link for that IDF soldier’s account? – I’d like it for my records as I can see the need to quote it again, and again, and again … to refute the naysayers.
No reid
They weren’t civilians as their actions were as combatants in trying to break a legal blockade.
They had all the options to comply and they didn’t.
They were prepared for violence weapons, prayers and swarming tactics worked out with weapons.
The primary assault weapons of the borders were paintball guns (stupid as they are at war and anti blockade is a war event, but there we are, stupid israeli decision)
they used secondary weapons for protection of life.
Kris
I made it up for Billy to get his head round the concept that there is another viewpoint.
And he doesn’t (or refuses) to understand that training takes over in action and circumstances are so fluid you just work through the situation sometimes.
( on a personal level I’d love to listen to the radio commentary)
sorry, I would have linked to a url (at least I’ve learnt something from you guys
I repeat Kris, I don’t care what spin the reports put on it. Prima facie, Israel’s fucked. There is nothing it can do, to make itself look good. I don’t really understand why people are so desperate to put a positive spin on it.
Do you see the irony in that paragraph?
So the UN’s ‘independent report’ can spin it without affecting the facts, while anyone who defends Israel MUST be spinning it despite the facts?
So long as the report uncovers facts, I don’t care what else it says. My position is simple.
The phrase, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump”, comes to mind.
For whatever reason, the IDF used deadly force against civilians.
Is your use of the term “civilians” under advisement?
Apologise for cross threading but either you hadn’t thought of what it was like for the boarding team or didn’t know IDF anti terrorist doctrine.
Fit young assault troops with clear instructions and realistic rehearsals could have done it without killing anyone, even given what happened with the crowd, which was an entirely predictable scenario.
They either weren’t properly prepared for the mission, or the mission instructions were at fault.
They clearly expected to run into issues, hence the paint-guns. So they don’t get to excuse themselves on the basis that it was unexpected. Therefore my current hypothesis is that the mission instructions authorised deadly force too readily, or someone panicked and it started a chain-reaction.
But whatever the true answer is, this should never have happened. Fit young guys are very capable of defending themselves against a middle-aged crowd, even given this crowd was angry and aggressive. There is no excuse and that’s where it ends. There’s nothing more to say. Israel fucked up, big time.
Kris
I made it up for Billy to get his head round the concept that there is another viewpoint.
sorry, I would have linked to a url (at least I’ve learnt something from you guys
Good as gold – I know you usually source your quotes.
I’ll just quote it and attribute it to you, “Mike says (followed by the quote)”.
(on a personal level I’d love to listen to the radio commentary)
Indeed, me too – let’s hope the IDF releases it to the web.
Bullshit Reid
I don’t think they authorised (live fire) it soon enough.
have you watched those videos?
(the swarming teams were prepped (whether from radar or night vision I don’t know, or even radio by Turkish oversight?).
The Israelis came down and were swamped simple and the videos and photos I’ve seen show not just middle aged people.
It seems you are missing info here or it’s your eyes?
there is no excuse, what happened is allowable in war.
The State of Israel is in an asymmetrical war (and by extension her citizens).
This was a legal blockade.
The blockade runners were acting in a war like fashion against Israel and aiding and abetting Hamas in breaking the blockade in a war they have instigated with Israel.
This was not a police action but against an act of war.
So the UN’s ‘independent report’ can spin it without affecting the facts, while anyone who defends Israel MUST be spinning it despite the facts?
Kris, I don’t give a fuck about spin. I read straight through it to get to the facts and then make up my own mind. If you’re influenced by it, I can’t help.
The phrase, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump”, comes to mind.
Does it? How peculiar.
Is your use of the term “civilians” under advisement?
As far as I know they didn’t belong to recognised terrorist groups and if a few of them did I don’t care. If the majority did then I would care but that’s not the case, is it.
Kris
they release so much and are the most open comapred to other democracies because of their High Court.
Who will be all over this already won’t they!
I’d trust the Israeli High Court over the UN anyday
As you know the IDF Junior, Middle and high level Officers get training ad finitem about all the civilian (bullshit) needs on operations.
I would have not landed with a paintball gun, duh.
now that officer should face a panel for sure.
Probably find out it was from some high ranking officer who’s head is close to the pollies arseholes.
Put his men in harms way with a very small paddle.
Bullshit Reid
I don’t think they authorised (live fire) it soon enough.
have you watched those videos?
(the swarming teams were prepped (whether from radar or night vision I don’t know, or even radio by Turkish oversight?).
The Israelis came down and were swamped simple and the videos and photos I’ve seen show not just middle aged people.
It seems you are missing info here or it’s your eyes?
there is no excuse, what happened is allowable in war.
The State of Israel is in an asymmetrical war (and by extension her citizens).
This was a legal blockade.
The blockade runners were acting in a war like fashion against Israel and aiding and abetting Hamas in breaking the blockade in a war they have instigated with Israel.
This was not a police action but against an act of war.
No it wasn’t. Newsflash. Israel isn’t at war with anyone.
A few people are at war with Israel, but that’s up to them. Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea to take on Mossad and the IDF but apparently some disagree.
It looks to me, Mike, that it was a convoy of civilian supply ships. Yes they were breaching a legal blockade, so what? Does that make what happened right?
Bryla
I think the Israelis did as best as their political masters let them (just like in Lebanon).
This has all the hallmarks of the PC-Legality brigade having too much say on operation specifics.
When the used targeted killings of terrorist leaders it usually involved a team of 50-60 each target with live feed where applicable and real time telephone link to the relevant minister for abort if he thought the collateral damage was too much for the target.
They would track and trace a target for weeks with the minister calling off the go again and again in the time period, all the while with legal oversight as they were at the initial targeting briefing.
This is how good the IDF can be, but when you allow non combatants the influence they do, this presents operational problems as I am sure it did here and we will find out in time as they are so open with their judiciary and media.
I ask you (as the US and European armies use the same urban tactics), have you ever read of the UK, French, German, US forces using thunderflashes to disperse civilians so they can put in arty against combatants?
Have you ever read anywhere of them phoning the occupants of a building telling them to clear out as they are going to conduct operations against the area or specific building?
You have got to be joking, Reid!!!
Israel’s enemies have declared a war of extermination against Israel, and have tried repeatedly to “wipe her from the map” since her inception back in 1948.
If you don’t think that that qualifies as “at war”, then I have a bridge I’d like to sell you …
Kris, I interpret that as an act of war – deliberately interfering in my sovereign right to vandalise whatever I want, whenever I want it. I’ve now dispatched a covert team of assassins (using forged passports) to deal with you once and for all. For decency’s sake, please leave your wife and family now, so that you don’t cause them to be tortured and killed too. Bloody terrorists.
Interesting point you make Bryla.
Do you think the British, Australian, Canadian, US, French, German, Russian, Italian, New Zealand, Irish, Spanish, Greek, Turkish, Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Iraqui, Iranian, Abu Dian countries Int forces not use whatever passports they need to to do the job?
No they defended themselves in a firefight (while they were intercepting blockade runners who were acting in a warlike manner doing so) as they were being swarmed by combatants.
That you and others like you call them civilians is a tactic of yours to delegitamise the Israeli forces and Israel.
If you aid and abet a terrorist then you cease being a civilian.
unless you can show you were being forced to at fear of your life or anothers.
Was that the case here?
No.
Therefore when they set out intending to run teh blockade they sided with the terrorist entity and (s).
when they refused to pull over they became terrorists and when they swarmed the borders they acted as terrorists.
if the blockade wasn’t legal then all of the above wouldn’t stand.
But the blockade was and is legal.
and continues to be so as long as Hamas refuses to stop the tunneling, kidnapping and rockets.
I’ve now dispatched a covert team of assassins (using forged passports) to deal with you once and for all.
I take it they will be coming from Australia by flotilla?
I’ve just arranged for my contacts at the IDF to organise a helicopter crew to intercept them just outside New Zealand’s territorial waters. They will contact you just prior to boarding your vessel(s). I suggest your team offer no physical resistance and comply with all directives.
The breaching of a blockade in war is an act of war as someone else has already posted.
Yes but as fas as I know, Israel is not in a declared state of war with anyone. Therefore it’s not a valid point and even if it was, I don’t give a fuck because it doesn’t change the main event.
The main event in this, as I alluded to above, is not the facts but the perception, and that’s already happened. The whole world is looking askance at Israel, as it should. This is fucking outrageous and totally unacceptable. You’d have to be mental to think otherwise.
That doesn’t mean to say I want to attack Israel, it means I want to help it, because this incident arose because of a blockade that should never have been necessary in the first place.
Please understand, I’m not attacking Israel’s right to do so, I’m suggesting it’s evidence of failure because it shouldn’t be necessary in the first place. This incident is just one more in a long line arising out of a totally fucked situation that really doesn’t have to be.
You don’t care if terrorists encamped themselves inside an operation to break a legal blockade? Why don’t you care?
I don’t care Mike, because there were hundreds if not thousands of people collectively on all those ships. They weren’t all terrorists, apparently. Otherwise the MSM would be full of it and the world would have a totally different view. But that’s not the case, unless I’m missing something, so I don’t care.
As for the assassins.
Good on the Israelis, more strength to their arm.
since 911 I suspect that there are loads (many ) people who have just disappeared from actions by many of those countries special & Int forces.
“If you don’t think that that qualifies as “at war”, then I have a bridge I’d like to sell you …”
Kris, it’s a nicety, I know, but a State at War files declarations and paperwork. Show me that in relation to Israel vs. any country. As far as I know, terrorist organisations are not countries, that’s probably why there is no paperwork, but unfortunately, you’re going to have to show me some, if you want to win.
Actually, Mike, we should just nuke Australia – this is obviously a statement of intent against the sovereign nation of New Zealand.
Excuse me, I need to make a phone call …
Yeah reid
so it’s all about perception isn’t it?
I suppose because a piece of paperwork hasn’t been filed at an impartial body (like the UN) then they aren’t an act of war?
Oh, mustn’t forget, kidnapping Gilad Shalit is now officially police actionable because Israel hasn’t declared war on Gaza or Hamas?
Have I got a deal for you?
There’s this guy I know who knows a guy who…..
“I’ve just arranged for my contacts at the IDF to organise a helicopter crew to intercept them just outside New Zealand’s territorial waters. They will contact you just prior to boarding your vessel(s). I suggest your team offer no physical resistance and comply with all directives.”
Don’t piss about with the amateurs Kris just get the BIG GUY to smite Brylas mob.
Sorry Kris don’t get carried away here
Bryla is just a citizen, she doesn’t represent the nation.
Besides which we haven’t had notification that Australia has filed a piece of paper with the UN .
OH no we haven’t filed a piece of paper either.
I am so sorry, I’ll get on to it right away….
Kris, it’s a nicety, I know, but a State at War files declarations and paperwork.
Tell that to Israel regarding her being attacked by the surrounding Islamic nations in 1948, 67, 73, etc. I don’t think they received the “nicety” of any formal declarations and the supporting paperwork.
Don’t piss about with the amateurs Kris just get the BIG GUY to smite Brylas mob.
Who do you think I just made my ‘phone call’ to, Johnboy?
It’s all been approved and I’d just like to say that Australia has 15 minutes to ‘vacate the premises’ – no rush, though.
Kris K, but I used my contacts with the IDF to use their nuclear armed submarines to bring my team of assassins across. Surely not even the IDF would be unethical enough to work both sides of the street.
Tell the BIG GUY not to damage any Aussie satellite dishes I have some History Channel stuff to watch tonight.
Can’t make any promises, Johnboy. But if you suffer a break in transmission I believe other satellites have been made available, so there should be minimal disruption. You’re lucky that the BIG GUY also enjoys the History Channel, otherwise it may have been a quite night.
He parted the Red Sea for Charlton Heston billy, don’t be too mocking, if the Israelites had stopped to collect the prawns they would have gone the same way as Yul Brynner’s chariots.
I see I missed a lot of fun yesterday, from the arch-propagandist KIA, who appears to get his posts straight from the Mossad intranet, to Mad Mike, the well known gun for hire to whom a human head is legitimate target practise.
Anyway, I thought a few words from the uber-cool and rational Noam Chomsky is in order, and the whole article is here.
But here’s a couple of extracts to give some food for thought:
Could I ask you for a statement on Israel’s attack on the Freedom Flotilla this week while it was in international waters on its way to Gaza?
Hijacking boats in international waters and killing passengers is, of course, a serious crime. The editors of the London Guardian are quite right to say that “If an armed group of Somali pirates had yesterday boarded six vessels on the high seas, killing at least 10 passengers and injuring many more, a NATO taskforce would today be heading for the Somali coast.”
It is worth bearing in mind that the crime is nothing new. For decades, Israel has been hijacking boats in international waters between Cyprus and Lebanon, killing or kidnapping passengers, sometimes bringing them to prisons in Israel including secret prison/torture chambers, sometimes holding them as hostages for many years. Israel assumes that it can carry out such crimes with impunity because the US tolerates them and Europe generally follows the US lead.
Much the same is true of Israel’s pretext for its latest crime: that the Freedom Flotilla was bringing materials that could be used for bunkers for rockets. Putting aside the absurdity, if Israel were interested in stopping Hamas rockets it knows exactly how to proceed: accept Hamas offers for a cease-fire. In June 2008, Israel and Hamas reached a cease- fire agreement. The Israeli government formally acknowledges that until Israel broke the agreement on November 4, invading Gaza and killing half a dozen Hamas activists, Hamas did not fire a single rocket.
Hamas offered to renew the cease-fire. The Israeli cabinet considered the offer and rejected it, preferring to launch its murderous and destructive Operation Cast Lead on December 27. Evidently, there is no justification for the use of force “in self-defense” unless peaceful means have been exhausted. In this case they were not even tried, although — or perhaps because — there was every reason to suppose that they would succeed. Operation Cast Lead is therefore sheer criminal aggression, with no credible pretext, and the same is true of Israel’s current resort to force.
The siege of Gaza itself does not have the slightest credible pretext. It was imposed by the US and Israel in January 2006 to punish Palestinians because they voted “the wrong way” in a free election, and it was sharply intensified in July 2007 when Hamas blocked a US-Israeli attempt to overthrow the elected government in a military coup, installing Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan. The siege is savage and cruel, designed to keep the caged animals barely alive so as to fend off international protest, but hardly more than that. It is the latest stage of long-standing Israeli plans, backed by the US, to separate Gaza from the West Bank.
These are only the bare outlines of very ugly policies.
and this:
In the US itself there also are changes. Whether they are fast enough to overcome the major problems I don’t know, but just take Israel and Palestine. Not many years ago, if I wanted to give a talk on this I had to have police protection at a university, because the meetings would be broken up violently. I can remember when the police insisted on accompanying me and my wife back to our car after a talk at a university. That’s not completely changed, but it’s been changing over the years, and it changed radically after Gaza. Now there are enthusiastic audiences, very much engaged, very involved, very much wanting to do things.
I suggest the flotilla massacre is another watershed in the process of justice for Palestinians. Time will tell. Regardless, Israel must prepare for the day when it loses US support, the process has already begun, and decide whether it wants to further descend into pariah status or come in from the cold.
And yesterday there were presented lots of examples of similar or worse atrocities in other countries. I agree they are tragic, but to answer the question of why Israel is singled out – it’s not. That’s only in their paranoia.
But Israel is a uniquely western construct, imposed in the dying days of western colonialism, founded in basic injustice to the indigenous population, so it’s primarily our responsibility perhaps even our primary responsibility given the increasing violent nature of the regime in Jerusalem.
Finally, to go back to Chomsky, he questions the validity of the slogan “speak truth to power” and wants an alternative found. For Palestinians, it has been found.
It’s Viva Palestina!
Viva Palestina!
By the way, it’s going to be interesting if the IRGC goes through with its offer to escort the next flotilla!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tOdW0qEy4g
Yeah let’s Free Gaza
From Hamas:
But would it make any difference?
Iran escort the next flotilla?
A wet dream for you and your buddies LUC.
Take a bit of time and see how long after 1948 it took for Hamas to form and get traction. It was nearly forty years, and then only after 20 years of brutal occupation that continues to this day – that’s over 60 years, MM.
Before Hamas, Gaza was about 20% Christian. Now it’s 2%. There is nothing pretty about Hamas – just like all resistance groups who arise from extreme adversity.
I don’t believe Iran will escort any ships, it would just see the US and Israel advance their attack plans by a decade or so. But I do think Turkey is going to get more involved, and that’s a different matter for Israel.
All sieges end, but now the end of this siege, whenever it comes, can only be seen as a defeat for Israel. It’s their fault for overplaying their hand, as Bibi has done before.
Let me just point out several things with Noam’s claim.
First, he word Tahdia is an Arabic term for a lull, not a ceasefire – that’s rather like the old schoolboy trick of making a promise whilst keeping your fingers crossed behind your back.
Second, the ‘lull’ in mortar and rocket attacks so praised here is only such when compared to the immediate periods either side. If one looks at the attacks over several years it’s quite apparent that the arrival of Hamas on the scene saw a near doubling and then tripling of such attacks. You’ll also notice that the did not fire a single rocket line is a lie.
Third, the Israeli government has never acknowledged any such thing, and if their pathetic little operation to find a tunnel a whole 250 yards into Gaza was regarded as a pretext for Hamas to start rocketing, then you’d have to ask why countless other breaches by both Israel and Hamas over the preceding few months did not have the same result? After all, for all the usual Noam chants about criminal actions it’s clear the Israeli military would have been good to go at any point in time. By contrast Hamas would have needed time to rearm – and it would seem that by December they had!
Fourth, Israel announced in mid-December that they wanted the ceasefire reinstated, provided Hamas could adhere to the conditions. A week later Hamas officially announced that they would not extend the ceasefire and only then, around Christmas, did Israel start warning that it was going to start taking action.
Fifth, one of the biggest ceasefire sticking points for Israel was their kidnapped soldier, Gilad Shalit, whom they offered some 500 prisoners for: Hamas responded by asking for 1000 and the Israelis figured the demands would simply increase with time. Hamas also rejected proposals to mediate by both European countries (such great friends of Israel) and even the Egyptians. To say the least, these are not the actions of a group negotiating in good faith.
Typical Chomsky lies in other words, though these are more blatant than usual. He’s slipping in his dotage.
The point that Hamas started firing rockets into Israel was to attract attention despite the fearful retribution it exacted, a form of masochism by Gaza as a last resort in dealing with an implacable foe. and when it seemed that contrary to expectation the Israeli might be going to give concessions Hamas stopped the rocket firing. The problem currently is that there are some rogue elements that Hamas does not have control over and it is they that are firing the rockets … though with Israeli drones I would have thought it an extremely hazardous practice … so I cannot see any reason for there to be a blockade. Just Israeli/Hamas cooperation in controlling or exterminating the rogue elements. The IDF has the firepower though perhaps it needs better skills judging by the armed hujacking of the freighter recently. It is tragic that Gilad Shalt has been imprisoned for so long but it merely illustrates the block headedness of the Israeli Government and their paranoia.
Not either side but preceding I think.
countless breaches by both Israeli and Hamas would seem to be a stupid middle east version of ‘Utu’.
The Israeli Prime Minister doesn’t look like a young cockeral from what I’ve seen on TV.
I appreciate that it is difficult, almost imposssible for somebody, in this case a people, suffering from paranoia to come to their senses without appropriate treatment and gradually growing out of it as the cause of the problem works its way out of them. The sad thing is that so much siffering will continue in the Gaza Strip while this is happening. You note not being involved I am an optomist that there will be a solution.
“Iran’s Revolutionary Guard naval forces are prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys that carry humanitarian assistance for the defenceless and oppressed people of Gaza with all their strength,” pledged Hojjatoleslam Ali Shirazi, Khamenei’s personal representative to the guards corps.
That should ensure peace and freedom. Will they still claim the terrorist activists on board are civilians? Suicide bombers are civilians too?
June 7th, 2010 at 6:20 am
Ah! Yes!
June 7th, 2010 at 7:26 am
Laura, did you say ‘Ah, yes’ several times? Unexpected joy, maybe?
June 7th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Fuck I hate the slimy ‘greens’.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Ah, yes Manolo. As it is Frog Strangling weather here in Katikati yet again it may be the greatest amount of enjoyment one is entitled too, today.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:12 am
References to income disparity being a major cause of modern malaise seem to be more common:
Should it be resolved? Can it be resolved? Or will it be self correcting, sooner or later?
I don’t suggest a flat income band, but the excesses of the rich getting richer seem to get out of hand.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:26 am
The Israeli attack on the Gaza freedom flotilla was an act of lethal stupidity. Lethal for its victims, stupid for Israel. It might be well, therefore, to remind the Jewish people of their own history.
Two years after World War II, a rustbucket American steamship renamed Exodus 1947 sailed from France with 4515 Jews on board. Most were Holocaust survivors, bound for a new life in the Promised Land, then the British Mandate of Palestine.
The British refused to accept them as immigrants and stopped the ship off the Palestine coast. Three people were killed when the Royal Navy boarded it by force and sailed it to the port of Haifa. The Exodus 1947 Jews were eventually sent back to occupied Germany, of all places.
This was a priceless propaganda coup in the fight for an independent Jewish homeland. There was a tremendous international outcry. The novel Exodus, by Leon Uris, a bestseller based on the story of the ship, and the 1960 Hollywood film of the same name, starring Paul Newman, cemented the idea of Israel in the Western political and cultural imperative.
Some of this ought to have occurred to the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, when he ordered the commando assault on the Gaza flotilla. Evidently not. Beneath that silvery, Harvard-educated veneer there lies an unprincipled thug addicted to the use of Israeli military might and impervious to world opinion.
Endlessly repeating the errors of history, Israel now engages in a savage repression of the Palestinian people and their right to a homeland of their own. The policy platform of Netanyahu’s Likud party makes no bones about it.
”The government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan River,” it reads. ”The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs.”
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/weve-been-here-before–but-israel-has-failed-to-learn-lessons-of-history-20100604-xkj2.html
June 7th, 2010 at 9:38 am
New York Times today has an Op-Ed about how the jews can be just as stupid as any other race or country and the recent boarding is a perfect example of that stupidity … written by a jew who was brought up to believe that jews were something special … some are, some are not … like any other group.
June 7th, 2010 at 10:05 am
@jcuknz: Just read that, myself. It’s an odd article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/opinion/06chabon.html
June 7th, 2010 at 10:12 am
“jews were something specia some are, some are not … like any other groupl”
Well if I was born in the Middle East I would want to be born in Israel.
June 7th, 2010 at 10:23 am
So
A mate of mine with NZ First links posted this on a site he blogs for.
Personally I think it’s a load of rubbish (Winston First having an ASIAN co-leader lol) but it’s worth the 5 minutes reading if only for the lulz factor.
http://vuemondiale.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/special-feature-a-speculative-piece-on-the-future-of-the-new-zealand-first-party/
June 7th, 2010 at 10:39 am
JiveKitty – Thanks for the link, that’s probably the best article I have read about the whole fiasco since it happened.
June 7th, 2010 at 10:56 am
@ Badger – the thought of Winston Peters allowing ANYONE to share New Zealand First’s leadership with him is a flight of fantasy. Winston Peters IS New Zealand First.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:03 am
True IV2 but it would be good for ACT for those Asian immigrants are much more aligned to ACT philosophy than any other. The Nats. have proven unreliable, they don’t qualify for Maori and generally would not be Labour voters.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Anyone care to comment on the 6 other flotilla ships boarded without incident?
How about the Egyptian blockade of gaza?
Or the charter of plaestine which has the destruction of Israel as its first and main point?
June 7th, 2010 at 11:13 am
“Police may now look at testing the reduced tolerance again at Labour Weekend. “I think it is too early to say [we will introduce it permanently].” ” – stuff.co
Good, just what we need. Another law that might mean 100 kph, or perhaps 110, or maybe 104.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Anyone care to comment on the 6 other flotilla ships boarded without incident?
Yes. The Israeli Zionista’s terror tactics have worked.
How about the Egyptian blockade of gaza?
Which is bad, but is not enforced by terrorists sanctioned by the state.
Or the charter of plaestine which has the destruction of Israel as its first and main point?
Liar. Or can you point to proof of this? And remember, Hamas is not Palestine.
Care to comment on Likud’s policy –
”The government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan River,”
Maybe there is your reason for Hamas’ policy.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:16 am
This post from KiwiInAmerica in the early hours of the morning might have been missed by many but it is a point that is difficult (if not impossible) to argue with. The hypocrisy is amazing.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/palmer_to_head_gaza_inquiry.html#comment-702220
June 7th, 2010 at 11:27 am
“Good, just what we need. Another law that might mean 100 kph, or perhaps 110, or maybe 104.”
We already got that, Gauleiter Fane Troy of the Peoples Democratic Republic of Taupo has told his bosses to get stuffed and instituted his own rules since February.
Welcome to Disneyland.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3780052/Taupo-cop-sets-pace-on-speed
June 7th, 2010 at 11:41 am
So the G20 have failed to agree on a global bank tax “aimed at making the financial industry shoulder the cost of bailouts”.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/economy/news/article.cfm?c_id=34&objectid=10650178
Hardly surprising when you can put the burden onto the taxpayer instead. Imagine a world where you can run your business without fear of failure no matter how stupid your decisions are?
The irony of this situation is stunning. Financial institutions are amongst the biggest profit makers and best remunerated “industries” (a sad joke really, there is no industry). It wouldn’t be unrealistic to expect them to be a bastion of the principles of the free market would it? No – instead (when it suits) they see nothing wrong in operating on the lines of a state funded, post war, communist tram factory. With one distinct difference, pay rates are a tad better.
I don’t advocate a tax but by the same token I believe none of these institutions are “too big to fail”. Business failure is a cornerstone of free market principles. Weak businesses fail and stronger businesses survive. If you are going to play the game you can’t dismiss the first rule in the book. Irony and hypocrisy defined.
This story will still be going long after the blockade story has disappeared from the mind. Sad little indictment of the priorities of our world.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:42 am
“Taupo area road policing sergeant Fane Troy introduced a 5kmh speed tolerance level when Operation Trench kicked off in February … Given the striking results, Mr Troy confirmed the stance was here to stay.
“Yes, the operation itself has finished but because we have had such good results we’re going to keep our low tolerance level and stop those travelling 5kmh above the speed limit.”
So north of the Summit of the Desert Road you need to do no more than 105, south after tomorrow you can do 110.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:48 am
The best public service is private
Thomas Sowell
I’m a big fan of the uncommonly sensible writing of Stanford University economics guru Thomas Sowell.
In his latest opinion editorial on the Atlasphere site, he argues that the best form of public service is private enterprise:
Many starry-eyed young adults who are fresh out of college have dreams of helping their fellow man via the public service sector. But when has a bureaucrat ever bestowed mass prosperity?
Every year about this time, big-government liberals stand up in front of college commencement crowds across the country and urge the graduates to do the noblest thing possible — become big-government liberals.
That isn’t how they phrase it, of course. Commencement speakers express great reverence for “public service,” as distinguished from narrow private “greed.” There is usually not the slightest sign of embarrassment at this self-serving celebration of the kinds of careers they have chosen — over and above the careers of others who merely provide us with the food we eat, the homes we live in, the clothes we wear and the medical care that saves our health and our lives.
What I would like to see is someone with the guts to tell those students: Do you want to be of some use and service to your fellow human beings? Then let your fellow human beings tell you what they want — not with words, but by putting their money where their mouth is.
You want to see more people have better housing? Build it! Become a builder or developer — if you can stand the sneers and disdain of your classmates and professors who regard the very words as repulsive.
Would you like to see more things become more affordable to more people? Then figure out more efficient ways of producing things or more efficient ways of getting those things from the producers to the consumers at a lower cost.
That’s what a man named Sam Walton did when he created Wal-Mart, a boon to people with modest incomes and a bane to the elite intelligentsia. In the process, Sam Walton became rich. Was that the “greed” that you have heard your classmates and professors denounce so smugly? If so, it has been such “greed” that has repeatedly brought prices down and thereby brought the American standard of living up.
Back at the beginning of the 20th century, only 15 percent of American families had a flush toilet. Not quite one-fourth had running water. Only three percent had electricity and one percent had central heating. Only one American family in a hundred owned an automobile.
By 1970, the vast majority of those American families who were living in poverty had flush toilets, running water and electricity. By the end of the twentieth century, more Americans were connected to the Internet than were connected to a water pipe or a sewage line at the beginning of the century.
More families have air-conditioning today than had electricity then. Today, more than half of all families with incomes below the official poverty line own a car or truck and have a microwave.
This didn’t come about because of the politicians, bureaucrats, activists or others in “public service” that you are supposed to admire. No nation ever protested its way from poverty to prosperity or got there through rhetoric or bureaucracies.
It was Thomas Edison who brought us electricity, not the Sierra Club. It was the Wright brothers who got us off the ground, not the Federal Aviation Administration. It was Henry Ford who ended the isolation of millions of Americans by making the automobile affordable, not Ralph Nader.
Those who have helped the poor the most have not been those who have gone around loudly expressing “compassion” for the poor, but those who found ways to make industry more productive and distribution more efficient, so that the poor of today can afford things that the affluent of yesterday could only dream about.
The wonderful places where you are supposed to go to do “public service” are as sheltered from the brutal test of reality as you have been on this campus for the last four — or is it six? — years. In these little cocoons, all that matters is how well you talk the talk. People who go into the marketplace have to walk the walk.
Colleges can teach many valuable skills, but they can also nourish many dangerous illusions. If you really want to be of service to others, then let them decide what is a service by whether they choose to spend their hard-earned money for it.
Sowell is the author of Basic Economics, The Housing Boom and Bust and many other books about economics, education, race and other subjects.
http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/the-best-public-service-is-private/
June 7th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Key? Key? Where you are John Key? Are you prepared to set aside your smiling-but-neverthless-naked lust for continued power and do what’s right for NZ? We’re waiting …
June 7th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Johnboy – the police need to split from the traffic bureaunazis immediately – before any credibility and respect they have left is completely gone.
We need to go back to a traffic division and the vehicles and uniforms should not remotely resemble the police livery. They should be in civvies, with fluoro jackets and invoice books instead of ticketing books. Traffic management and policing are different things.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:58 am
That depends on ones perspective. Forced wealth transfer is the modus operandi of socialism.
June 7th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
You’ve got it now Non-Puzzled in Ekatahuna.
Simple isn’t it.
How the fuck can those dopey tourists in camper vans get confused with our simple road rules well you may ask.
Refer all such questions to that font of all wisdom Reichsfuhrer Paula Rose of the road policing division.
With the grand success of the latest confusion which is already being lauded.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3783015/Speeding-blitz-cuts-road-toll-by-20pc
I suspect the next move will be to lower the tolerance to minus 5 kph so any one doing more than 95 will get pinged, that of course will be more than 90kph in Gauleiter Troys protectorate.
This will have the immediate effect of increasing revenue by 5000% but that is not its intention, it is solely for road safety considerations. (insert a “yeah right” here if you feel so inclined)
Taken to its logical conclusion this means that anyone who pulls out to pass a car in front that is going too slow will in fact have to slow down dropping back into the line of traffic ten cars further back than they started from as the passing lanes peter out.
This of course will remove the frustration of being behind the slow driver that annoyed them and contribute greatly to a lower accident rate.
June 7th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Kaya: Agreed it won’t happen though. Not many empires have ever been broken up without staunch resistance from within.
June 7th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
# Puzzled in Ekatahuna (58) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 11:13 am
“Police may now look at testing the reduced tolerance again at Labour Weekend. “I think it is too early to say [we will introduce it permanently].” ” – stuff.co
Good, just what we need. Another law that might mean 100 kph, or perhaps 110, or maybe 104.
Meanwhile the disgracefully inconsiderate and downright dangerous driving of the incompetent many continues unabated and unpoliced.
June 7th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Johnboy 12:01 pm,
Or perhaps, Johnboy, in a much similar vein, we should ticket drivers who ‘look’ as though they will break the speed limit – you know; a ‘thought crime’ type offence. Much like the guy who beats up another bloke, in contrast to the guy who beats up a bloke who happens to be a sodomite, and as a result gets a harsher penalty.
I can just see it in court now:
Cop: I could tell he was just about to speed, your honour, as his eyes were too close together, and so, in the public interest, I ticketed the accused before he could carry out his crime.
Judge (to the accused): The court finds you guilty, sir, and imposes the following sentence …
Who said we don’t live in a police state?
June 7th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
You have made a good point there Kris.
In my opinion speeding sodomites should get a greater fine for speeding than speeding heterosexuals after all its obvious that they are only speeding to get to their next disgusting encounter more rapidly.
I’m sure Paula Rose and Fane Troy will note your comments and act accordingly.
June 7th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
about the most economical speed is about 80k..
so you can expect that..as the oil runs down/out..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
June 7th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Obama told how bad spill would be days after BP’s rig exploded: report
Oh dear.
June 7th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Johnboy 1:11 pm,
One can only hope.
The only thing worse than a ‘speeding sodomite’ is a ‘backpeddling lesbian’.
June 7th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Time for a laugh. you boring sods.
Two Irish friends leave the pub. One says to other, ‘I can’t be
Bothered to walk all the Way home.’
I know, me too but we’ve no money for a cab and we’ve missed the last
Bus home.’
‘We could steal a bus from the depot.’ replies his mate.
They arrive at the bus depot and one goes in to get a bus while the other
Keeps a look-out.
After shuffling around for ages, the lookout shouts, ‘What are you doing?
Have you not found one yet?’
‘I can’t find a No. 91′
‘Oh Jaysus Christ, ye tick sod, take the No. 14 and we’ll walk from the
Roundabout.
June 7th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Well done. Shame about the seventh.
Outrageous.
Negotiable.
June 7th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
As we just had a joke from V2, I thought I would also share an oldie but a goodie, and one quite germane to recent events in the Middle East:
[If you have to ask, then you obviously lack the knowlede that only age brings - hint 'a book' by Salman Rushdie]
June 7th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Seeing it’s such a quiet day.
http://www.ew.govt.nz/environmental-information/Plant-and-animal-pests/Animal-pests/Magpies/
Anyone got any alphachloralose?
June 7th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
reid 1:33 pm,
Come on, Reid, you explain why only ONE of the seven vessels (two flotillas) required the Israelis to use deadly force to defend their lives, while the other six boardings went without incident? Remember, it takes two to tango, so to speak, and this was not a one sided affair, as the liberal Jew hating MSM, etc., would have us believe.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Crikey Kris, who cares what happened?
It’s perception that matters here. That’s the only thing that matters.
I don’t actually care whether or not they were setup for confrontation that got out of hand. It’s not relevant.
What’s relevant are the bullet holes in the bodies and how they got there. That’s all I care about.
As the UN says, a full, transparent enquiry is required. And we should have one.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Here’s an eyewitness account: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/07/2919698.htm
June 7th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Kris K, your question may as well be asked about a street thug who got more than he bargained for. The Zionistas only had to use deadly force as their agression was met with resistance. Had they not been agressive, attacking an unarmed merchant vessel, then they would have not needed to ” defend themselves”.
Death to the Zionistas.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
A question for the unwashed left. Which of you brains trust chairmen were telling my brother to “go home” to Germany on Saturday?
On one side he’s 7th generation and on the other hes Maori. Coverting to Jeudaism doesn’t actually alter your heratige or DNA idiots.
Pretty rude coming from so of you who haven’t actually mastered English yet either and are waving the dflag of some other place. Always wondered what Germany was like in 1936, now we know.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Always wondered what Germany was like in 1936, now we know.
Yes, Israel 2010.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Old Aussie family the Luqmans, used to farm camels out Alice Springs way back in the 1880′s.
Nice lad that Ahmed Luqman.
One thing you can say about the young scallywag–totally unbiased.
Used to do charitable works for old Rabbi Goldstein among the elderly Jewish folks at the Springs until he sailed off to Gaza.
Salt of the earth and a fine Australian.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
reid 2:07 pm,
Don’t you mean, ‘Perception ABOUT Israel’? I have little confidence that the other contributers to this event will come under the same magnifying glass as will Israel if any sort of enquiry were to proceed.
Is it even possible to mention the UN and “full, transparent enquiry” in respect to Israel in the same sentence?
Remember, we’re dealing with Israel here – any chance of a factual and objective enquiry occuring from an independent source has a bout as much chance as does Israel’s Islamist enemies accepting her right to exist.
Israel should just give the UN, and all her other protractors, the bird. Israel trying to appease her enemies, and I include the UN, has never worked in the past 62 years, and it will not work now. I think Israel is finally waking up to this fact, and about time, too.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Yeah Kris – Goldstone report by a secular jew brought in by the anti Israel UN.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
You’re a fucktard billy. Something to add to your anti-Semitism.
When female body parts like billywanker are an example of the left Kris the only thing we can expect is free showers for all. the only real question is we’re going to let the socialists do the same thing again that they did in Germany. So far they have the media on side.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Murray, cry me a river, coz I shed no tears over dead Zionistas.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Er, yes.
?
Well that’s what transparent means: i.e. the IDF publishes everything it has, cleansed only to protect intelligence. After-action reports, mission planning, the lot. Look, Israel is fucked. It can’t spin this. There are dead people. The IDF killed them. Why the soldiers did it, I won’t speculate. It can’t be justified, given there are lots of non-lethal options from pepper-spray to nylon handcuffs to tasers. These were probably assault troops so expectedly strong and fit. The fact reports are saying there were multiple head-shots to at least one body, indicates they were in kill-mode: no wounding. What were their mission instructions re: deadly force? What was their rehearsal regime for dealing with a large crowd of angry muslims who could reasonably be expected not to react passively, given what was going down? Those are the sorts of things I want to know.
And if it is truly transparent, Israel will publish the original source documents. Note that I don’t expect this to happen. Israel will claim national security and publish very little, I expect.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
You mean national socialists and not communists Murray?
June 7th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Murray 2:32 pm,
Indeed, Murray (- and in the near future I believe us voicing our support for Israel, and our opposition to the socialist state, will likely end with us being incarcerated, or worse.)
Except this time it will be a global phenomenum, and will be under Hitler mark II.
And I have that on good authority – you know, my MAIN source of authority.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
reid 2:43 pm,
While I admire your ‘faith’ that Israel will receive a just hearing over this recent incident, Reid, I think history is against you. As Mike just mentioned – the Goldstone report – instills me with less than zero confidence in any sort of balanced and fact based independent report eventuating.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
reid (4101) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Apologise for cross threading but either you hadn’t thought of what it was like for the boarding team or didn’t know IDF anti terrorist doctrine.
# MikeNZ (2042) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
June 7th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
I repeat Kris, I don’t care what spin the reports put on it. Prima facie, Israel’s fucked. There is nothing it can do, to make itself look good. I don’t really understand why people are so desperate to put a positive spin on it.
So long as the report uncovers facts, I don’t care what else it says. My position is simple.
For whatever reason, the IDF used deadly force against civilians.
That seems wrong to me, so I’m awaiting further detail.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
MikeNZ 3:21 pm,
Do you have a link for that IDF soldier’s account? – I’d like it for my records as I can see the need to quote it again, and again, and again … to refute the naysayers.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
No reid
They weren’t civilians as their actions were as combatants in trying to break a legal blockade.
They had all the options to comply and they didn’t.
They were prepared for violence weapons, prayers and swarming tactics worked out with weapons.
The primary assault weapons of the borders were paintball guns (stupid as they are at war and anti blockade is a war event, but there we are, stupid israeli decision)
they used secondary weapons for protection of life.
but it’s not about truth is it?
June 7th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Kris
I made it up for Billy to get his head round the concept that there is another viewpoint.
And he doesn’t (or refuses) to understand that training takes over in action and circumstances are so fluid you just work through the situation sometimes.
( on a personal level I’d love to listen to the radio commentary)
sorry, I would have linked to a url (at least I’ve learnt something from you guys
June 7th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
reid 3:25 pm,
Do you see the irony in that paragraph?
So the UN’s ‘independent report’ can spin it without affecting the facts, while anyone who defends Israel MUST be spinning it despite the facts?
The phrase, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump”, comes to mind.
Is your use of the term “civilians” under advisement?
June 7th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Fit young assault troops with clear instructions and realistic rehearsals could have done it without killing anyone, even given what happened with the crowd, which was an entirely predictable scenario.
They either weren’t properly prepared for the mission, or the mission instructions were at fault.
They clearly expected to run into issues, hence the paint-guns. So they don’t get to excuse themselves on the basis that it was unexpected. Therefore my current hypothesis is that the mission instructions authorised deadly force too readily, or someone panicked and it started a chain-reaction.
But whatever the true answer is, this should never have happened. Fit young guys are very capable of defending themselves against a middle-aged crowd, even given this crowd was angry and aggressive. There is no excuse and that’s where it ends. There’s nothing more to say. Israel fucked up, big time.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
MikeNZ 3:33 pm,
Good as gold – I know you usually source your quotes.
I’ll just quote it and attribute it to you, “Mike says (followed by the quote)”.
Indeed, me too – let’s hope the IDF releases it to the web.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Bullshit Reid
I don’t think they authorised (live fire) it soon enough.
have you watched those videos?
(the swarming teams were prepped (whether from radar or night vision I don’t know, or even radio by Turkish oversight?).
The Israelis came down and were swamped simple and the videos and photos I’ve seen show not just middle aged people.
It seems you are missing info here or it’s your eyes?
there is no excuse, what happened is allowable in war.
The State of Israel is in an asymmetrical war (and by extension her citizens).
This was a legal blockade.
The blockade runners were acting in a war like fashion against Israel and aiding and abetting Hamas in breaking the blockade in a war they have instigated with Israel.
This was not a police action but against an act of war.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Civilians aren’t civilians. Killing civilians is “self-defence’. We want the facts so bad we’ll just make them up if we want to.
Hmmmm, must be defending Israeli terrorism.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
i like the iwi idea of no private title to all new zealand coast/beaches…
they will give up any claims..if the current private titles are abolished..
and access for all..to all ..
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/iwi-insist-private-titles-must-goyeswhat-a-greatfair-ideaehrestoreenforce-the-queens-chainso-we-all-have-access-to-all-the-coastbeaches-of-our-countryehwhats-not-to-like-about-that/
whaddayareckon….?
a ‘real’ queens-chain..?
woo-hoo…!
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
June 7th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Kris, I don’t give a fuck about spin. I read straight through it to get to the facts and then make up my own mind. If you’re influenced by it, I can’t help.
Does it? How peculiar.
As far as I know they didn’t belong to recognised terrorist groups and if a few of them did I don’t care. If the majority did then I would care but that’s not the case, is it.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Kris
they release so much and are the most open comapred to other democracies because of their High Court.
Who will be all over this already won’t they!
I’d trust the Israeli High Court over the UN anyday
As you know the IDF Junior, Middle and high level Officers get training ad finitem about all the civilian (bullshit) needs on operations.
I would have not landed with a paintball gun, duh.
now that officer should face a panel for sure.
Probably find out it was from some high ranking officer who’s head is close to the pollies arseholes.
Put his men in harms way with a very small paddle.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Reid
You don’t care if terrorists encamped themselves inside an operation to break a legal blockade?
Why don’t you care?
June 7th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Mike, you should go and sort them out.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
No it wasn’t. Newsflash. Israel isn’t at war with anyone.
A few people are at war with Israel, but that’s up to them. Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea to take on Mossad and the IDF but apparently some disagree.
It looks to me, Mike, that it was a convoy of civilian supply ships. Yes they were breaching a legal blockade, so what? Does that make what happened right?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Bryla, haven’t you got another satellite dish you can go and vandalise somewhere?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Bryla
I think the Israelis did as best as their political masters let them (just like in Lebanon).
This has all the hallmarks of the PC-Legality brigade having too much say on operation specifics.
When the used targeted killings of terrorist leaders it usually involved a team of 50-60 each target with live feed where applicable and real time telephone link to the relevant minister for abort if he thought the collateral damage was too much for the target.
They would track and trace a target for weeks with the minister calling off the go again and again in the time period, all the while with legal oversight as they were at the initial targeting briefing.
This is how good the IDF can be, but when you allow non combatants the influence they do, this presents operational problems as I am sure it did here and we will find out in time as they are so open with their judiciary and media.
I ask you (as the US and European armies use the same urban tactics), have you ever read of the UK, French, German, US forces using thunderflashes to disperse civilians so they can put in arty against combatants?
Have you ever read anywhere of them phoning the occupants of a building telling them to clear out as they are going to conduct operations against the area or specific building?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
REID
The breaching of a blockade in war is an act of war as someone else has already posted.
I guess you missed that or are you ignoring it?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
reid 4:02 pm,
You have got to be joking, Reid!!!
Israel’s enemies have declared a war of extermination against Israel, and have tried repeatedly to “wipe her from the map” since her inception back in 1948.
If you don’t think that that qualifies as “at war”, then I have a bridge I’d like to sell you …
June 7th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Kris, I interpret that as an act of war – deliberately interfering in my sovereign right to vandalise whatever I want, whenever I want it. I’ve now dispatched a covert team of assassins (using forged passports) to deal with you once and for all. For decency’s sake, please leave your wife and family now, so that you don’t cause them to be tortured and killed too. Bloody terrorists.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Sorry can’t edit my last post.
Reid
You don’t care if terrorists encamped themselves inside an operation to break a legal blockade?
Why don’t you care?
waiting for the answer
June 7th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Kris
can I get a 10% commission finders fee?
pretty please
June 7th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Mike, they killed nine civilians and no terrorists. That makes the IDF terrorists. Clear now?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Interesting point you make Bryla.
Do you think the British, Australian, Canadian, US, French, German, Russian, Italian, New Zealand, Irish, Spanish, Greek, Turkish, Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Iraqui, Iranian, Abu Dian countries Int forces not use whatever passports they need to to do the job?
Wake up and smell the coffee.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Mike, RU saying the Australian and New Zealand governments are carrying out a systematic program of political murder?
RU attached to reality at all?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
No they defended themselves in a firefight (while they were intercepting blockade runners who were acting in a warlike manner doing so) as they were being swarmed by combatants.
That you and others like you call them civilians is a tactic of yours to delegitamise the Israeli forces and Israel.
If you aid and abet a terrorist then you cease being a civilian.
unless you can show you were being forced to at fear of your life or anothers.
Was that the case here?
No.
Therefore when they set out intending to run teh blockade they sided with the terrorist entity and (s).
when they refused to pull over they became terrorists and when they swarmed the borders they acted as terrorists.
if the blockade wasn’t legal then all of the above wouldn’t stand.
But the blockade was and is legal.
and continues to be so as long as Hamas refuses to stop the tunneling, kidnapping and rockets.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Bryla
here we go,
you said (using forged passports)
Then you deliberately ignore my statement and question.
What did I say?
not use whatever passports they need to to do the job?
Well do you think that the countries that I named (incl OZ and NZ) don’t use false or copied passports to fulfill their job (whatever it is).?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Bryla 4:11 pm,
I take it they will be coming from Australia by flotilla?
I’ve just arranged for my contacts at the IDF to organise a helicopter crew to intercept them just outside New Zealand’s territorial waters. They will contact you just prior to boarding your vessel(s). I suggest your team offer no physical resistance and comply with all directives.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Yes but as fas as I know, Israel is not in a declared state of war with anyone. Therefore it’s not a valid point and even if it was, I don’t give a fuck because it doesn’t change the main event.
The main event in this, as I alluded to above, is not the facts but the perception, and that’s already happened. The whole world is looking askance at Israel, as it should. This is fucking outrageous and totally unacceptable. You’d have to be mental to think otherwise.
That doesn’t mean to say I want to attack Israel, it means I want to help it, because this incident arose because of a blockade that should never have been necessary in the first place.
Please understand, I’m not attacking Israel’s right to do so, I’m suggesting it’s evidence of failure because it shouldn’t be necessary in the first place. This incident is just one more in a long line arising out of a totally fucked situation that really doesn’t have to be.
I don’t care Mike, because there were hundreds if not thousands of people collectively on all those ships. They weren’t all terrorists, apparently. Otherwise the MSM would be full of it and the world would have a totally different view. But that’s not the case, unless I’m missing something, so I don’t care.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Kris
why board when they can use a torpedo?
June 7th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
MikeNZ 4:13 pm,
You can have all the proceeds from the first bridge – I’m thinking this is going to be a multiple bridge sale.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
I think you may be correct considering the numbers here.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Hey Bryla
does this help?
http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/gavin-atkins-shadowlands/do-australian-intelligence-agencies-use-fake-passports
http://intelligencenews.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/01-471/
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/dershowitz/entry/an_intelligence_agency_misused_passports
As for the assassins.
Good on the Israelis, more strength to their arm.
since 911 I suspect that there are loads (many ) people who have just disappeared from actions by many of those countries special & Int forces.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
“If you don’t think that that qualifies as “at war”, then I have a bridge I’d like to sell you …”
Kris, it’s a nicety, I know, but a State at War files declarations and paperwork. Show me that in relation to Israel vs. any country. As far as I know, terrorist organisations are not countries, that’s probably why there is no paperwork, but unfortunately, you’re going to have to show me some, if you want to win.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
MikeNZ 4:30 pm,
Actually, Mike, we should just nuke Australia – this is obviously a statement of intent against the sovereign nation of New Zealand.
Excuse me, I need to make a phone call …
June 7th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Yeah reid
so it’s all about perception isn’t it?
I suppose because a piece of paperwork hasn’t been filed at an impartial body (like the UN) then they aren’t an act of war?
Oh, mustn’t forget, kidnapping Gilad Shalit is now officially police actionable because Israel hasn’t declared war on Gaza or Hamas?
Have I got a deal for you?
There’s this guy I know who knows a guy who…..
June 7th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
“I’ve just arranged for my contacts at the IDF to organise a helicopter crew to intercept them just outside New Zealand’s territorial waters. They will contact you just prior to boarding your vessel(s). I suggest your team offer no physical resistance and comply with all directives.”
Don’t piss about with the amateurs Kris just get the BIG GUY to smite Brylas mob.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Sorry Kris don’t get carried away here
Bryla is just a citizen, she doesn’t represent the nation.
Besides which we haven’t had notification that Australia has filed a piece of paper with the UN .
OH no we haven’t filed a piece of paper either.
I am so sorry, I’ll get on to it right away….
June 7th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Sorry JB
he’s playing with the new dog he got the girls.
Besides which Bryla’s mob are aiding the Mullahs (once removed) so he can’t interfere.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
reid 4:32 pm,
Tell that to Israel regarding her being attacked by the surrounding Islamic nations in 1948, 67, 73, etc. I don’t think they received the “nicety” of any formal declarations and the supporting paperwork.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Yes, it is.
The point you’re making is based on international maritime law. Therefore, I’m using a legal tactic myself and so far, I’m winning.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
sorry Kris gotta go cook tea.
Play nice
June 7th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
Johnboy 4:39 pm,
Who do you think I just made my ‘phone call’ to, Johnboy?
It’s all been approved and I’d just like to say that Australia has 15 minutes to ‘vacate the premises’ – no rush, though.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
MikeNZ 4:44 pm,
Meeoow, ktish.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Kris K, but I used my contacts with the IDF to use their nuclear armed submarines to bring my team of assassins across. Surely not even the IDF would be unethical enough to work both sides of the street.
June 7th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Tell the BIG GUY not to damage any Aussie satellite dishes I have some History Channel stuff to watch tonight.
June 7th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Johnboy 4:55 pm,
Can’t make any promises, Johnboy. But if you suffer a break in transmission I believe other satellites have been made available, so there should be minimal disruption. You’re lucky that the BIG GUY also enjoys the History Channel, otherwise it may have been a quite night.
June 7th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Thank GOD/BIG GUY//GAIA for that Kris. I do love watching Baldrick dig up the past at 6.30. Just like QT in parliament really.
June 7th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Funny how this BIG GUY never seems to help his chosen ones, eh?
Too busy making rules about butt fucking and prawn eating, I guess.
June 7th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
He parted the Red Sea for Charlton Heston billy, don’t be too mocking, if the Israelites had stopped to collect the prawns they would have gone the same way as Yul Brynner’s chariots.
June 7th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
I see I missed a lot of fun yesterday, from the arch-propagandist KIA, who appears to get his posts straight from the Mossad intranet, to Mad Mike, the well known gun for hire to whom a human head is legitimate target practise.
Anyway, I thought a few words from the uber-cool and rational Noam Chomsky is in order, and the whole article is here.
But here’s a couple of extracts to give some food for thought:
and this:
I suggest the flotilla massacre is another watershed in the process of justice for Palestinians. Time will tell. Regardless, Israel must prepare for the day when it loses US support, the process has already begun, and decide whether it wants to further descend into pariah status or come in from the cold.
And yesterday there were presented lots of examples of similar or worse atrocities in other countries. I agree they are tragic, but to answer the question of why Israel is singled out – it’s not. That’s only in their paranoia.
But Israel is a uniquely western construct, imposed in the dying days of western colonialism, founded in basic injustice to the indigenous population, so it’s primarily our responsibility perhaps even our primary responsibility given the increasing violent nature of the regime in Jerusalem.
Finally, to go back to Chomsky, he questions the validity of the slogan “speak truth to power” and wants an alternative found. For Palestinians, it has been found.
It’s Viva Palestina!
Viva Palestina!
By the way, it’s going to be interesting if the IRGC goes through with its offer to escort the next flotilla!
June 7th, 2010 at 7:35 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tOdW0qEy4g
Yeah let’s Free Gaza
From Hamas:
But would it make any difference?
Iran escort the next flotilla?
A wet dream for you and your buddies LUC.
What an idea.
June 7th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Who wants to bet young Billy got spit roasted by Father Thompson and Rabbi Goldberg? It would explain a lot.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Hurf – leave it out.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Mad Mike
I would love to see Gaza freed from Hamas.
Take a bit of time and see how long after 1948 it took for Hamas to form and get traction. It was nearly forty years, and then only after 20 years of brutal occupation that continues to this day – that’s over 60 years, MM.
Before Hamas, Gaza was about 20% Christian. Now it’s 2%. There is nothing pretty about Hamas – just like all resistance groups who arise from extreme adversity.
I don’t believe Iran will escort any ships, it would just see the US and Israel advance their attack plans by a decade or so. But I do think Turkey is going to get more involved, and that’s a different matter for Israel.
All sieges end, but now the end of this siege, whenever it comes, can only be seen as a defeat for Israel. It’s their fault for overplaying their hand, as Bibi has done before.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Mike, he would leave it out, but every time he tries, the rabbi makes him put it back in again.
June 7th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
when will farrar clean this sewer up…?
…and make drop-kicks like hurf use their real name…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
June 7th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
LOL bonkers – at least I tried to resist it.
June 8th, 2010 at 7:43 am
A more rational commentary than most to be found in this thread …
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/opinion/07douthat.html?th&emc=th
June 8th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Let me just point out several things with Noam’s claim.
First, he word Tahdia is an Arabic term for a lull, not a ceasefire – that’s rather like the old schoolboy trick of making a promise whilst keeping your fingers crossed behind your back.
Second, the ‘lull’ in mortar and rocket attacks so praised here is only such when compared to the immediate periods either side. If one looks at the attacks over several years it’s quite apparent that the arrival of Hamas on the scene saw a near doubling and then tripling of such attacks. You’ll also notice that the did not fire a single rocket line is a lie.
Third, the Israeli government has never acknowledged any such thing, and if their pathetic little operation to find a tunnel a whole 250 yards into Gaza was regarded as a pretext for Hamas to start rocketing, then you’d have to ask why countless other breaches by both Israel and Hamas over the preceding few months did not have the same result? After all, for all the usual Noam chants about criminal actions it’s clear the Israeli military would have been good to go at any point in time. By contrast Hamas would have needed time to rearm – and it would seem that by December they had!
Fourth, Israel announced in mid-December that they wanted the ceasefire reinstated, provided Hamas could adhere to the conditions. A week later Hamas officially announced that they would not extend the ceasefire and only then, around Christmas, did Israel start warning that it was going to start taking action.
Fifth, one of the biggest ceasefire sticking points for Israel was their kidnapped soldier, Gilad Shalit, whom they offered some 500 prisoners for: Hamas responded by asking for 1000 and the Israelis figured the demands would simply increase with time. Hamas also rejected proposals to mediate by both European countries (such great friends of Israel) and even the Egyptians. To say the least, these are not the actions of a group negotiating in good faith.
Typical Chomsky lies in other words, though these are more blatant than usual. He’s slipping in his dotage.
June 8th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
The point that Hamas started firing rockets into Israel was to attract attention despite the fearful retribution it exacted, a form of masochism by Gaza as a last resort in dealing with an implacable foe. and when it seemed that contrary to expectation the Israeli might be going to give concessions Hamas stopped the rocket firing. The problem currently is that there are some rogue elements that Hamas does not have control over and it is they that are firing the rockets … though with Israeli drones I would have thought it an extremely hazardous practice … so I cannot see any reason for there to be a blockade. Just Israeli/Hamas cooperation in controlling or exterminating the rogue elements. The IDF has the firepower though perhaps it needs better skills judging by the armed hujacking of the freighter recently. It is tragic that Gilad Shalt has been imprisoned for so long but it merely illustrates the block headedness of the Israeli Government and their paranoia.
Not either side but preceding I think.
countless breaches by both Israeli and Hamas would seem to be a stupid middle east version of ‘Utu’.
The Israeli Prime Minister doesn’t look like a young cockeral from what I’ve seen on TV.
I appreciate that it is difficult, almost imposssible for somebody, in this case a people, suffering from paranoia to come to their senses without appropriate treatment and gradually growing out of it as the cause of the problem works its way out of them. The sad thing is that so much siffering will continue in the Gaza Strip while this is happening. You note not being involved I am an optomist that there will be a solution.
June 8th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
“Iran’s Revolutionary Guard naval forces are prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys that carry humanitarian assistance for the defenceless and oppressed people of Gaza with all their strength,” pledged Hojjatoleslam Ali Shirazi, Khamenei’s personal representative to the guards corps.
That should ensure peace and freedom. Will they still claim the terrorist activists on board are civilians? Suicide bombers are civilians too?