Jones and Carter to be demoted

June 12th, 2010 at 9:27 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Shamed MPs and are expected to be demoted ahead of Tuesday’s caucus for their credit card spending while they were in government.

I think that is an astute decision by .

That will mean freeing up their two major portfolios as well as their rankings – possibly to the new crop of MPs.

Mr Carter is foreign affairs spokesman and is ranked No 7, and Mr Jones is environment spokesman and ranked No 11.

Leader Phil Goff returns tomorrow from China. He is thought to want some issues sorted before the caucus on Tuesday. A fuller reshuffle is likely later.

Who to promote has two aspects to it. Who do you move to the front bench, and who do you give their portfolios to.

The two Labour MPs most deserving of front bench status in my view are and . They will both clearly be senior Ministers in a future Labour Government.

As it happens, they both also have the experience to take up the portfolios up for grabs. Grant is a former MFAT staffer and would be an easy fit to Foreign Affairs. Charles has been very involved in climate change issues, so Environment also an easy fit.

However neither of them are particularly close to Goff, being more from the left of the party and very close to Clark.

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62 Responses to “Jones and Carter to be demoted”

  1. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Charles Chauvel? Comes across as smarmy, arrogant and one of those who knows what’s best for us. Watch him on TVNZ7 and you’ll see what I mean.

    Grant Roberston? Seems to have his head in the sand about public service cuts. Just the sort of politician NZ does not need i.e. someone who believes that spending their way out of the recession (by borrowing to keep an inflated public service) is the answer.

    Two more reasons why as a former Labour supporter I won’t be voting Labour again. They really need to tip the party upside down and jetison these troughers and politically correct corrupt, fiscally inept idiots.

    Anyway a promotion of these two will increase the Rainbow faction of the party, something I doubt Goff would really want?

    [DPF: I don’t agree with their politics, but I think they are capable MPs. I don’t care about their sexuality, and I would hope neither would Phil Goff]

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  2. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    shit .. I was typing my thought in the General Debate section on this subject

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  3. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (852 comments) says:

    This isnt astute, its a cop out based on feebleness.

    As we have seen, in the UK and Australia this sort of troughing leads to public ridicule and resignation from Parliament.

    In New Zealand, not so much.

    Because we have such low expectations of our “leaders”?

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  4. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Heh, heh, I can see promoting Chauvel and Roberston makes some sense ….. when Helen finishes her UN posting and re-takes control of the dismal poll rating Labour Party, she will have two able and trusted lieutennants by her side, tails wagging ….

    C’mon Goff, pull up, pull up! Take Labour into a new direction and make the party more relevant to NZ!

    (Jeez there must be a lot of bitter positioning going on behind the scenes with the various Labour factions ….

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  5. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (852 comments) says:

    and as niggly says, does Goff really want to promote 2 more of Helen’s people into positions of authority

    I guess the poor schmuck really is a dead man walking isnt he.

    If he hardens up he either gets rolled or gets Judith Tizard back

    If he limply “demotes” the troughers including sex-fiend Jones and born to limo Carter, then he gets more of his enemies on the front bench, who will undoubtedly roll him by Christmas = and part of their evidence for his unfitness to lead will be this issue – lack of testicular fortitude.

    Time to fire up the BBQs i feel.

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  6. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    niggly is correct about Chuck .. he, as with many Labour MP,s (Ardern another) have that no all contemptuous look about them if someone dares to challenge their thoughts.
    Robertson is a friend of Davids so wouldn’t dare criticize his thoughts there.
    But as many have said many times, the cupboard is bare .. where is 2 jobs Andrew when you need him?

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  7. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    I see Koru Club’s posting on Redablurt passed 300 yesterday .. call the Limo Now buddy, you have to go .. REALLY, you have to go.

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  8. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Charles has been very involved in climate change issues, so Environment also an easy fit.”

    “Involved”??

    Yeah, I guess that is one way of putting it.

    Chauvel has put a lot of energy into pushing climate change propaganda and shutting down any contrary views. That this elitist Stalinist creep is even in parliament is a sign that government in NZ is completely depraved. He is as good a reason as you’d ever find to validate the view that socialism is a corrupt and failed experiment, eventually fatal to any country that falls under its vile spell.

    That political troglodytes like Chauvel and Robertson actually threaten to become part of NZ’s government is something I find unbelievable. Have we really sunk to such a low?

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  9. davidp (3,588 comments) says:

    So Goff ends up with two enemies on the front bench, and has made two new enemies on the back bench. Sort of like Jim McLay demoting Bill Birch and George Gair.

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  10. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    I loved the way that Labour, Sunny Dayz King as acting “leader”, made a brief and lame weak statement about their MP’s appalling credit card spending by finishing with the old “we will not be making any more comments” line. Didn’t they do that with Phil Field after his conviction .. yes Labour, he was convicted.

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  11. mickysavage (786 comments) says:

    I would pick Jacinda Ardern as a bolter for Environment. She is a highly respected and very well performing MP. She will be a senior MP in the very near future. And the extra publicity will give her a push for the Auckland Central campaign as well as even up the gender balance.

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  12. Mr Nobody NZ (391 comments) says:

    If Goff wanted to appear decisive he would begin the process for booting them out of the Labour party completely, this just looks like a slap on the wrist.

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  13. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    and as mentioned in General Debate, why is Mayor Jim still on the front bench .. he is the so called “leader” of a soon to be (some will say already defunct) defunct Party and he is leaving next year to be ChCh’s new nightmare. When you look at his disgusting use of our money on his holiday around Europe, he would be one of the worst troughers.

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  14. Yeti (64 comments) says:

    If Goff only demotes these people it’ll be a limp useless and pointless exercise. He needs to force them to resign. The company I work for just fired (two weeks ago) a good person for misuse of their company credit card on a scale much less than these two clowns.

    I am utterly appalled that such blatant criminality can in essence be condoned, it enrages me. I have never really been that bothered by politicians but this is our money they’re spending with seemingly wilful disregard for the electorate and these fuckers just don’t seem to give a good shit about that. I am disgusted. Totally and utterly disgusted.

    They need to resign and leave public life as they clearly do not care for anything other than their own egos.

    Need I remind anyone that they were ministers of the crown when this flagrant abuse of our money took place, thus they were earning exceptionally good coin compared to the people they pretend to represent. Way more than most of us who would be fired on the spot for the outrageous transgressions these filthy egocentric fucktards undertook.

    Getting vexed again. Better go and have a cup of tea and a sit down.

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  15. dad4justice (8,313 comments) says:

    These parasitic socialist scumbag creeps should be sacked. What kind of sickness is New Zealand politics. Great role models for a public losing patience with these smug cretins!

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  16. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Demoted? It shows Goff has the spine of a jellyfish.
    Cheats like Carter and Jones need to be pushed to resign their seats immediately. They are a pair of disgraceful, unprincipled troughers.

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  17. Michael (912 comments) says:

    Can we expect David Shearer to be promoted up the ranks quickly, too? He has far more experience in Foreign Affairs and is more a Goff supporter than Chauvel or Robertson.

    [DPF: That is not an entirely bad idea. Could happen]

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  18. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    @Yeti 10:05 – that’s a large footprint of distain you left just there :) (.. and I agree completely!)

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  19. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    “She (Jacinda Ardern) will be a senior MP in the very near future.”

    Micky, why are you on the turps so early in the day? Your original definition of “near future” must be at least five years away. Ardern will not be senior MP while socialist Labour rots in opposition. She’ll continue to be a quiet backbencher.

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  20. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Labour does need to be careful, I sense the public is sick to death of those politicians “that know what’s good for us” etc.

    So rather than promoting the likes of Charles, Grant or even Jacinda, Goff should simply promote people like eg David Shearer, someone who alot of Kiwibloggers won’t care for I know, but I take it because of his international experience would be a lot more fiscally wiser (than the idealists such as C, G & J etc)?

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  21. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Has anyone asked Clark? She still thinks she runs the party after all.

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  22. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Yes they have, that’s why Charles and Grant have been suggested :-)

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  23. Inventory2 (10,443 comments) says:

    @ Manolo (10.06am) – you’ve hit the nail on the head, even if advertantly. Jones does NOT have a seat to resign. At least Carter has a mandate from the voters of Te Atatu; Jones is merely there on the largese of Labour’s former ruling elite.

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  24. CharlieBrown (1,028 comments) says:

    “Charles Chauvel? Comes across as smarmy, arrogant and one of those who knows what’s best for us. ”

    Isn’t any MP who voted for removing section 59 smarmy, arrogant and one of those who knows what’s best for us? The most smary and arrogant mp of the lot in my opinion is John Key.

    I used to agree with people when they thought Goff was from the right of the party, but I really struggle to believe that now with all his increidbly naieve and left-wing thinking eg, breaking the consensus on the reserve bank, promising to reverse the tax cuts. I see no right wing move of the labour party since Helen left power.

    And why oh why is Judith Tizard still on the list? From the labour party’s point of view, she is worse than a bad smell that won’t go away, no-one apart from the most hard-core feminists wants to see that old trout back in parliament, including most labour mps.

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  25. CharlieBrown (1,028 comments) says:

    Inventory2 – Electorate mps have no more mandate from the people than list mps. We have 2 or 3 maori party mps in parliament who shouldn’t be there just because of the way we treat electorate seats, NZ didn’t vote these people in. Electorate mps do not represent their electorate, they represent their party. If they did, you wouldn’t see pylons going through the waikato, you wouldn’t see rural mps voting for the stupid ETS, and you wouldn’t have seen section 59 removed.

    Both those labour mps should be charged with theft, just as a shoplifter would be.

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  26. mickysavage (786 comments) says:

    Manolo @10:11

    You obviously have not seen Ardern in action. She will go far and will rise in prominence before the next election.

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  27. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,924 comments) says:

    Labour needs to get in some new blood NOW. This is a golden opportunity.

    They should reorganise their list now and remove Jones from parliament, leaving Carter on the back bench and under no illusion that his future pre-selection is is doubt. Goff should bring in some new genuine talent via the list and make it clear that the new talent will be front bench material for 2014. I can’t think who that might be but somewhere out there will be Labour’s Stephen Joyce – new, clean, capable and electable.

    He should NOT HAVE A BARR of Chauvelle or Robertson – they are throwbacks to the era in which all the sludging took place AND like it or not, their sexual orientation will be a vote looser. The way they are going, Goff may well soon be the only ‘straight’ fellow in the parliamentary party. Labour does not have a shit’s show in hell if it goes to the polls with a team in which more than 50% are perceived to be poofters.

    Sorry DPF, that’s the reality of it.

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  28. JC (973 comments) says:

    Contrary to some opinion I don’t think its at all comforting to drop a gay and a challenger.. and replace them with more gays. That front bench would look increasingly at odds with the overall electorate.

    As we’ve seen with Jones, its prurience that did him in, and the persistent offending of Carter coupled with him playing the gay victim card does other gays no favours.

    I mean.. what *is* the Labour Party? Is it a gay, educated, spendthrift elite? Jones takes away a Maori, heterosexual bovver boy with crossover appeal and leaves the damaged goods in Horomia in a top place.. hardly what you want to take into the next election.

    JC

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  29. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    Goff should simply promote people like eg David Shearer,

    Yeah…surely it should be at least neck and neck for the foreign affairs position!

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  30. Captain Neurotic (203 comments) says:

    The thing about Labour is that a lot of their voting constituent does come from working class families in working class trade e.g. mining, electricians, painters, mechanics etc and these are the ‘red blooded’ men to which Shane Jones would have been appealing to. I have a a lot of mates in trades and when I have a beer with them and their friends the one thing that is noted is that the are generally not very PC motherfuckers!

    I put the suggestion to them last night if they were not prepared to vote National would they still feel comfortable voting for labour if three of the senior ministers were gay and one likely to be the first gay PM (sex-orientation does not bother me – I was merely playing the Devils advocate) – these blokes were outraged that Labour had gay MP’s.

    The point I am trying to make is even though this was a small group of voters – there is still a lot of hate towards homosexuals within the blue collar of NZ who generally vote Labour.

    It would be a bad move for Goff to promote openly gay ministers on this factor.

    Sad but true – These men would prefer voting National than voting for poofs.

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  31. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Nice post Adolf, agree all the way except to the last. Personally I don’t care if MP’s are gay or not, when I referred to Labour’s Rainbow faction possibly benefiting from the promotions I meant I’m concerned about the balance of power of the factions …… (because after-all, to be a Labour MP one has to fit into a pre-determined “compartments”)!

    I haven’t bothered to work out the balance of power of the Labour factions since eg 1999-2010 (imagine comparing to previous decades and plotting the shifts over time – fascinating!), and I don’t think anyone else has either (well, obviously, apart from the Labour Party heirarchy themselves :-) ) but it would make truely fascinating reading! Perhaps the MSM journos with Mana eg Fran O’S, John A, or Collin J could do this one day, but it would be a bit politically incorrect for them or their company hence it will have to go to the likes of Ian Wishart, please, or even Chris Trotter, when he’s in one of his stirring moods, which is is at the moment to do.

    As an aside, fascinating stirring commentary from Chris Trotter in last night’s DomPost opinion piece on the Greens and conservatism.

    In my mind the very likes of some of the ascendant Labour Party factions are very conservative in nature IMO, they still cling to outdated prejudices and ideology, are so arrogant that they sterotype or compartmentalise EVERYBODY, they are ept at using deception (especially of the politically naive). They epitomise what they alledgedly despise, the true Conservatives etc. Bizzare, politics is such a mind fuck really …but not suprising when quite simply some politicians because of their factional, activist groupthink upbringing are quite, well f’ed in the head, compared to mainstream thinking.

    Goff needs to do the (faction) numbers, get some balls and whilst giving the faction (retain) some power (to genuinely represent “these” constituants, who are an important facet of NZ contemporary life) but let them know their era under the Clark years is over, like they way these same guys rolled the 80’s Labour old guard, and Labour needs more “real” people who are pragmatic and open – minded. Goff may be from the old generation, but alas he’s the only dude with (some, or once pre-2008 change of govt) mana in there to get things moving. If he loses and the factions retain power, Labour is truely screwed for a generation as the general populos continues to switch off to the irrelevant Labour brand.

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  32. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    “Goff may well soon be the only ’straight’ fellow in the parliamentary party.”

    What about the ginga Hughes? Is he rainbow too?

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  33. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Gawd knows why the heck I’m defending Goff, but this credit card spending rort should give him the perfect opportunity to cull alot of former ministers and high flyers, and reshape the Labour party to be relevant to the 21st Century (not the flippin’ 18-19th Century ClassWar shite).

    After all, he would have the public on his side (because there must be total distgust out there – quick someone do a Poll :-) ), and what better way to be seen to be redeeming Labour?

    National doesn’t really have to bother too much, as they’ve only come into power and JK made it clear very early on to his Ministers to not abuse their new status (good job, perfect timing!), plus deny the opportunity for Labour to dig in rubbish bins for dirt, as they are so expert in, sigh.

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  34. niggly (831 comments) says:

    “What about the ginga Hughes? Is he rainbow too?”

    No he’s just a sterotypical ginga, which is bad enough!

    Likes to crack the Whip etc!

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  35. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    Labour haven’t asked Helen to come back after her term at the U.N. – yet.

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  36. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,924 comments) says:

    Niggly, you should go back and read again what I said.

    It had nothing to do with my own likes or dislikes. Like you, I couldn’t care less about a person’s bedroom antics provided he or she keeps them private.

    Unfortunately the majority of people do not think the same way and that is what I was attempting to show.

    Having said that, I must acknowledge that over time I have come to see a most unattractive and often common thread of arrogance, selfishness and petulance in the character of those males and females who profess to be poofters (gay, lesbian or transsexual in PCspeak.) Carter and Chauvelle are excellent such examples. There are some exceptions but they are few.

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  37. tvb (4,519 comments) says:

    Jones and Carter are going to the back benches though Jones will be told he will be given an opportunity to earn his place back, strictly on merit. Carter however is finished and should contemplate his retirement Anderton should have his portfolios stripped as well as he will be busy on the CHCH Mayor campaign. Horomia can f***k off too and Mitinui is on the back benches.

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  38. Johnboy (17,074 comments) says:

    As you say Adolf no one really cares where they stick their dicks as long as it isn’t in the rest of our faces.
    Poofter, born to trough pricks, (I am not PC) like Carter and Chauvelle have no place in a party that used to represent the ordinary worker.
    If this sorry little episode gives the gutless Goof a chance to cleanse the ranks of Labor it will be the best thing that has happened to them in years. I used to vote for them once but it will be a cold day in hell before I ever do again unless some major alterations occur in the candidate selection process, and John Key pisses me me off any more than he is already doing.

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  39. Banana Llama (1,043 comments) says:

    Wish i could run off with the company credit card and spend it up on whores an alcohol only to get demoted when caught.

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  40. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Adolf – sweet as, I get you now!

    Indeed, whilst Labour are busy travelling on buses scratching their heads wondering why they are disconnected from the voters, could it be that the general populance simply wan’t a bit of normality (no pun intended!) and hence why the National Party are polling consistently well, including the womens vote etc?

    Labour and Goff: there’s your answer, now what are you going to do about it?

    How about getting rid of the other pre-programmed Partychik hanger’s on eg the Dyson’s, the Streets, dear I say it the Ginga himself? Incidentally they don’t resonnate well with the general populance!

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  41. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (852 comments) says:

    Well if you got rid of the union plants, the communist apparateckniks, the rainbow members, the fabian socialists, the university lecturers, and the token maori and PI “representatives” you wouldn’t have enough members left to fill a phonebox, let alone a front bench.

    So you see Goff’s problem, Labour hasn’t had an actual worker in Parliament since about 1989.

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  42. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (852 comments) says:

    …but i am sure there is a new generation of party “activists” sitting in university student unions and the labour party research unit waiting their turn to step up…

    bwuhahaha

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  43. Caroline Castle (16 comments) says:

    Goff has just had a reshuffle handed to him on a platter. He has to do something bold or he will be seen as weak. Chauvel to the front bench is good. At least he had a proper job before he entered parliament. David Shearer must go up the rankings. Very silly if Goff leaves him on the back bench. Jacinda , I don’t think so, still needs to prove herself more, but the rumour is she’s one of Goff’s favourites.

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  44. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    Labour, the workers’ champions.

    Bad enough they pissed away taxpayers’ dollars: the fact that Shame Jones wanked all over them beforehand is the final insult.

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  45. Jeremy Harris (319 comments) says:

    Shearer is definitely in Goff’s camp and given his experience would be a likely candidate for Foreign Affairs…

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  46. Biomag83 (94 comments) says:

    Go ahead Phil and promote Robertson and Chavuel. Just two more rainbow MPs ( and Im not concerned about sexuality, but I do get concerned when such MPs promote the lifestyle and the homosexual agenda. Chris Finlayson is gay but hes not a member of the rainbow camp) Two more rainbow MPs completly out of touch with the ordinary kiwi with two kids and a mortgage

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  47. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    When did the Labour Party, the party which purports to represent the average hard-working New Zealander, was taken over by its lesbian/gay branch?

    The socialists have always been led by academics, professors, and political science graduates, but when was the year when the rainbow faction start to impose itself and to defeat the union-supported side of the party?

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  48. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Ian Wishart’s Absolute Power has the answers to your questions, Manolo :-)

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  49. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    “So you see Goff’s problem, Labour hasn’t had an actual worker in Parliament since about 1989.”

    Does that explain why they didn’t seem to have a clue about what sort of expenses are acceptable in real life?

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  50. Johnboy (17,074 comments) says:

    “——-Goff’s camp——”

    Shit is that right! Tell us more JH.

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  51. Johnboy (17,074 comments) says:

    Q: “The socialists have always been led by academics, professors, and political science graduates, but when was the year when the rainbow faction start to impose itself and to defeat the union-supported side of the party?”

    A: When the bitch took over, Manolo?

    Shit this is better than the Dompost quizz. :)

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  52. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Dompost Quizz? That’s an idea!

    Perhaps NZ On Air should commission a political quiz/comedy type show, episode 1, how and why the Labour Party went wrong :-)

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  53. bchapman (649 comments) says:

    Be interesting to see what happens to the Te Atatu seat. As it stands, Chris is a good chance to lose to Tau or Michael Jones or whoever is against him. Unlike Cunliffe who has done lots about New Lynn, Carter seems to be away somewhere. Might be worth asking Mike Williams and Leila Harre what the plans for the seat are!

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  54. niggly (831 comments) says:

    Episode 2, Labour: how to keep digging a hole until it is even larger (by pretending there isn’t a problem)!

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  55. Biomag83 (94 comments) says:

    I wouldnt be surprised if Carter intends to resign before at the next election anyway. I read once in an interview with him that Helen Clark asked him how long he intended to remain in politics. He replied that he would be there as long as she was around. Clark was surronded by militant homosexual males, the consumate fag hag. There is something very creepy about Chris Carter

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  56. Johnboy (17,074 comments) says:

    “Episode 2, Labour: how to keep digging a hole until it is even larger (by pretending there isn’t a problem)!”

    All under control niggly.

    Goofys back tomorrow and he is really peeved! Heads will roll! (Cue whole nation laughing).

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  57. trout (945 comments) says:

    Is this the same Chauvel that flew to Sydney (on the State) to attend the gay parade and had just enough testosterone left to complain about kids’ behaviour on the (State paid) flight home.

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  58. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    I love watching Philin doing angry .. he would be in front of a mirror now practising .. he has to lose that goofy smile though

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  59. sbw (44 comments) says:

    If Phil Goff was brave and smart, he’d promote Lianne Dalziel to the front bench. I reckon she’s earned her place to the front bench; she’s respected by the business community, and she’s to the right of Labour which would strengthen Phil’s grip over the party. G Robertson and Chauvel will only aid a left coup (Trev/Maryan)

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  60. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Phil Twyford’s Facebook account has disappeared in recent days. Related? Though, TBH, I’m not sure how much lower ol’ Phil can slip…

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  61. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,754 comments) says:

    It’s fun watching a Labour opposition floundering around in irrelevance. Same this is happening here in the UK.

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