Jones, Carter & Cunliffe

June 11th, 2010 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

The real winner out of yesterday’s revelations is David Cunliffe. Not only were his records squeaky clean, but he is now clearly the leader in waiting, with having self destructed.

But Jones may not be totally gone. While he is a List MP, it has long been rumoured that George Hawkins will retire from the safe seat at the next election, and George is said to have two preferences for his seat – anyone but Twyford, and Shane Jones as a mate to keep Twyford out.

Manurewa would give Jones a seat for life. It is one of the safest in the country. Will this plan go ahead now?

TV3 reported that was going to demote from the front bench at his upcoming reshuffle, due to his travel and spending. That is little surprise, but it raises the question about whether he will leave Shane Jones on the front bench?

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61 Responses to “Jones, Carter & Cunliffe”

  1. Danyl Mclauchlan (1,071 comments) says:

    Are Cunliffe’s records squeaky clean or have they just not gotten to them yet?

    [DPF: DC strikes me as a very careful person, and I will be surprised if his have much to them]

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  2. Whafe (650 comments) says:

    Cunliffe, Mmmmm the mind boggles on this sweet talking to the max lefty……….

    I have no expectations as to what Phil Goofy will have to say about this when he returns from overseas, however it will be amusing at the same time… I do hope he purchased some Concrete Pills from Chopper and HTFU…. (again, have no expectations of this)

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  3. tvb (4,519 comments) says:

    Jones is too right wing, too heterosexual, and too opinionated to be Leader of the Labour Party, always was. But Cunliffe??? National would have to become very unpopular for him to make it. But I always maintain you only get Labour Governments when there is a problem with the National Party which is the natural party of Government. Labour is the natural party of opposition. They even behave like an opposition when they are in Government – blaming the National Party for everything. Annette King managed that for 9 years while she was a senior Minister taking no responsibility for anything.

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  4. jims_whare (404 comments) says:

    I dunno if the Islander folks in Manurewa would be too impressed with (I gotta get it off) Jones standing for them. I know Hawkins wasn’t exactly a shining pillar but I wonder what the Sunday sermons would say about voting for Jones…..plus the fact that Jones’ may likely get a good whack form his missus for what he did.

    H

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  5. rubbernecker (13 comments) says:

    Interestingly, it seems like Groser is even more of an alcoholic than Peters. Next we will be having to pay for his treatment as well. Selfish prick.

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  6. tvb (4,519 comments) says:

    Yes I do think Groser has alcohol issues. I hope he does not dissipate his talent in dipsomania.

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  7. Whafe (650 comments) says:

    Its always a fine line to find the balance between how much piss a company should pay for for staff on work trips…. One I have had issues with with staff…. Is a dozen beers and a bottle of wine per night fair? Pffftttttt

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  8. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Demote Chris Carter? The trougher deserves an outright sacking. The same applies to the consumate onanist Shane Jones.
    These two weasels should have the decency to resign today. But, they won’t: they are socialist Labour politicians.

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  9. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Maybe Tim Grosser hass been on the turps all this time advising Key and Smith on the ETS. That would be a sensible explanation to the PM’s intransigence / stubborness on the issue.

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  10. tvb (4,519 comments) says:

    I am curious about this lost luggage rort that seems to be going on. The clothes that seem to be bought are not a complete wardrope which one would expect if luggage gets lost. No socks or undies for instance. I assume Ministers arriving only with the clothes they have on would want fresh underwear, socks shirts. They buy a jacket but no trousers. One shirt. Odd.

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  11. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    The next few placeholders on the Greens’ List will be hopeful. More craziness from Labour would surely see their vote take lift in 2011. As much as I like to see Labour destroy itself, I’m not sure more Green MPs is a good trade off.

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  12. Eddie (288 comments) says:

    TVB, good point. It sounds like a well trod path for upgrading your wardrobe overseas.

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  13. Monty (980 comments) says:

    The minister of Porn is also a liar. he started yesterday morning saying he could not remember what movies he watched. The by the middle of the day, a little investigation proved that he is a porn addict and he came clean. he knew all along what he had been watching. For that reason he should resign from Parliament.

    Meanwhile Goof 6% stays away and fails to front. What an abject failure he is.

    So the only person having a BBQ this weekend is Cunnliffe?

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  14. Inventory2 (10,443 comments) says:

    @ Danyl – you may well be right – I read or heard somewhere earlier this morning that only a small percentage of the documents had been analysed thus far.

    The other surprise is that the media has been VERY quiet about cigarette damage to a bedspread by a former Foreign Minister…

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  15. rouppe (984 comments) says:

    Yes, that is a good point tvb. It is similar to a rort I saw happening in a large IT firm.

    Some (usually managers or senior sales reps) would go on a 4 or 5 day trip somewhere and take along 3 or 4 suits and have them all dry-cleaned. No-one seemed to question this behaviour either.

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  16. TMC (75 comments) says:

    It’s amazing to see all the Labour folks coming out to say this isn’t news, move along, it’s gutter journalism, etc etc.

    Not too long ago they were outraged over the same thing and Phil Goff was quoted in the Herald as saying “There need to be sanctions against any person at any time who has that sense of entitlement and misspends Crown money.” 31 March 2010.

    But that was different wasn’t it? Hmm…

    If Labour wants to gain any traction at all, they need to stop taking lessons from the BP PR team – “move along, nothing to see here, it’s not a big deal, it’s just a small error…”

    Otherwise they will continue to look like d*cks. Swift strong action and they might regain a bit of trust.

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  17. tvb (4,519 comments) says:

    If Jones is a porn addict I would like to know what is on his parliamentary computer. I bet he regularly looks up porn sites on that.

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  18. Angus (536 comments) says:

    ..never really understood why Shane Jones was ever considered such a political talent anyway. He started badly by double-dipping on his his WFC and Parliamentary salaries before Klark made him a minister.

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  19. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Old habits die hard. Shane “Onanist” Jones must have been creaming it (pun intended) since his Treaty of Waitangi Fisheries Commission days.

    Once a cheat, always a cheat.

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  20. Forrest (15 comments) says:

    Shane Jones has an opportunity to not only deflect criticism but to also strengthen his position within the Labour party. He should claim that the videos he viewed were all gay porn.

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  21. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    It is theft as an employee and should be charged as such.
    can we appeal to the Speaker?

    No Ones talking about those who didn’t steal.
    Where is the comments asked of them?

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  22. Inventory2 (10,443 comments) says:

    @ Monty – I don’t know if BBQ’s are Cunliffe’s style. I think any plotting done around his dining table would be accompanied by haute cuisine. I wouldn’t be at all surprised though if Maryan Street was to hostess a fondue party in the near future though ;-)

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  23. flipper (4,241 comments) says:

    According to media reports Clark was “squeaky clean”. Oh, really?
    What about the $900,000 plus taxpayer rip – off for her 2005 pledge card and other matters, found by the Auditor General to be ILLEGAL.
    The fact that Clark had her bed-fellow, Simpson (H2), pressure Parliamentary Services to pay the bills and her Parliamentary lap dogs ratify those overtly illegal acts with retrospective legislation does not make it right. In short, it was/is worse than all others put together.

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  24. William J (44 comments) says:

    What I have also been amazed at is the fact that these Minister’s have obviously been drunk or at least massively hungover while on these business trips. They also always go on how their overseas trips are very good networking opportunities for NZ yet half of them are not out their networking, instead they are locked up in their hotel room getting drunk and watching movies or, even worse, porn! Typical Labour – while banning kids from eating pies they are lying, cheating, smoking, getting drunk, buying porn, bikes, golf sets, and clothes using other peoples money. It disgusts me.

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  25. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    Hidden amongst the sensation:

    It appears all the money Labour ministers charged was repaid well before the party lost office.

    That suggests the main issue could be inappropriate use rather than theft.

    but

    …journalists had still managed to read through only a fraction of them. There are still boxes of receipts for credit cards used by other Labour ministers and most National ministers to go through.

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  26. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    What I have also been amazed at is the fact that these Minister’s have obviously been drunk or at least massively hungover while on these business trips.

    Not obviously. How many drinks shared between how many people (staffers and visitors)? Alcohol in hotels, especially room service and self service from the fridge can be horrendously expensive.

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  27. burt (8,324 comments) says:

    Jones would be perfect for Labour leadership, he just needs to follow the trusted Labour party defense mechanism of Deny, Delay, Denigrate. This front footing it was never going to work – did you ever see Helen front up to doing wrong and apologise ?

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  28. PinkGina (91 comments) says:

    Shane Jones is a wanker, literally

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  29. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    So naughty, those dirty people watching porn. FFS get off your high horse. OK he shouldn’t have got his employer to pay for it, which is the real issue here. He should have paid for it with a private credit card or cash, but being in a hotel it was probably just easier to leave it on the bill and sort it out later. Or he should have downloaded some movies onto his laptop before leaving home.
    The fact that he watches porn probably wouldn’t hurt him, the Kevin Rudd strip club incident didn’t harm him.
    I’d be far more likely to vote for Shane Jones than David Cunliffe (isn’t he from the right leaning faction also or have I got that wrong?) simply because Shane Jones seems more “normal” and less polished – the polish that some politicians have really makes them seem too robotic and artificial. I really don’t have a problem with people like Jones being straight up – at least you know where you stand. I’d much prefer that to John Key who promises not to be a world leader on climate taxes and delivers the total opposite.
    I don’t expect a politician to be squeaky clean, I expect them to do the job they’re elected to do (which John Key is not).

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  30. LiberalismIsASin (290 comments) says:

    Pornography is evil, so Jones should go. Carter should go just on the basis that he is a pervert.

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  31. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    Have you never undertaken any sins of the flesh, LiberalismIsASin?

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  32. RRM (10,034 comments) says:

    Don’t be so sure.

    I heard Annette King commenting on the porn on the radio this morning, and it was a real welcome change to hear someone with balls speaking for Labour :-P

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  33. William J (44 comments) says:

    It’s amazing really that their first instinct was to cheat and use their business credit card for personal items. So even though they may have paid it back later on, it doesn’t take away from the fact that their initial natural instinct was to be dishonest and see what they could get away with. People in their position shouldn’t have to be micro-managed just to ensure they don’t steal from the system. If anyone else did it in any other business they would be fired immediately. It’s a matter of trust and honesty. I want MP’s to keep their credit cards though – as this whole saga has given us all a very good insight into how some of these MP’s think and act when away from the public eye.

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  34. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    William J – the hotel may have had a policy of not allowing the extras to be paid for seperately, in which case after he’s viewed the movie his only choice would be to put the movies on his work card and pay it back later.

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  35. burt (8,324 comments) says:

    gazzmaniac

    He had another choice – don’t watch them…. Don’t get me wrong I have no issues with porn. But if you are an MP and you have two options; Don’t watch porn that night OR have porn show up on your ministerial credit card – then the choice seems pretty easy to me… Take a walk to an establishment and use your own money for your own jollies. Pretty simple but I guess not an obvious choice to a person with a sense of entitlement over public money.

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  36. RightNow (7,013 comments) says:

    As burt points out, Jones had the choice not to watch the movies. By choosing to watch them he was taking a risk that this would become public knowledge. It may have been that at the time his compulsion overrode his common sense, but that implies an addiction and a porn addiction is one of the worst stigmas I could think of. I’d rather have a coke habit (especially if I could charge it to the taxpayer).
    I really feel embarrassed for him, he’s now known around NZ (and it’s probably been picked up by international media by now) to be an habitual porn watcher with all the connotations that go with that. However he made bad choices, and is now finding out the consequences. You certainly wouldn’t put that man on any international delegations, he’s made a very career limiting move.

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  37. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    LiberalismIsASin: Pornography is evil, so Jones should go.</i.

    Oh fuck off back to the bible belt. Jones should go for stealing tax payers money – that it was on Porn is a bad look, and is the nail in the coffin. Legitimate, and professional Pornography is not evil.

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  38. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Gazzamaniac

    Having watched porn in a hotel room. You go down to reception in the morning and say I want the room paid for on the company account or credit card and that I want the in room entertainment charged to my card here thank you or I will pay cash for the porn ta.

    Hospitality staff don’t give a toss, they have hookers walking through reception all the time, they know the hotel supplies porn so its no big deal and they are descreet as well they have to be.

    Whats a big deal is that Jones is so stupid not to have done it right, he’s like Tiger Woods not having a a seperate girl friend cell phone, you can have all the money in the world and no fucking brains

    Right now , why would you feel embarassed for a politician, thats part of the job requirement, being able to sing Kum By Ah in public

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  39. big bruv (14,165 comments) says:

    Family first have issued a press release condemning Jones for watching Porn, apparently they see a porn flick as more of a “sin” than the misuse of public funds.

    All the more reason to ignore almost everything that family first have to say, I detest corrupt pollies but I detest those who seek to rule our lives by way of the bible even more.

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  40. RRM (10,034 comments) says:

    ^^^ At last something we agree on Bruv.

    Don’t get too hot under the collar about family fist, I am certain a Graham Capill of their own will emerge from their midst in time, and that will be the end of them.

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  41. NX (504 comments) says:

    Couple of comments:

    1. There are parallels between Jone’s hotel behaviour & Don Brash’s. While Jones was watch porn, Brash was washing his socks. Both activities are dirty, involving hand work, but with a pleasing end result.

    2. Watching porn could actually enhance Phil Goff’s reputation.

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  42. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    Family First seems as appropriate a name as NZ First. Totally misleading.

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  43. Barnsley Bill (983 comments) says:

    @gazzmaniac. No hotel on this planet or any other will put a hurdle between porn and a wanker. Every hotel I have ever stayed at on business was more than happy to allow me to pay for the peanuts and coke seperately and then reprint the bill.

    It is not about Shameless Jones pulling his guts out. It is about doing something he was expressly forbidden from doing. Over and over and over again. And this was something he was told verbally when he became a minister and he would have had to sign a document to agree to getting a card. The document states that the card is not for personal use unless it is an EMERGENCY.
    A HARD ON AT 1 IN THE MORNING IS NOT AN EMERGENCY
    Personally I am more angry about the weekends at taipa Bay Resort for him and his legion of kids with big boy breakfasts thrown in. Why am I unhappy about this?
    Because Taipa is 15 minutes from the front door of his fucking house.

    However. Chris Carter is the worst of the lot and I think he is getting a fairly easy run this time for two reasons. The wanker and the fact that we all expect Carter to be ripping us off. We are numb from the constant revelations of his lifestyle on our dime and it no longer shocks us. That is the most shocking thing for me. We are numb and no longer able to muster the rage this POS so richly deserves.

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  44. lastmanstanding (1,304 comments) says:

    The issue is one of judgement. In this case bad judgement. Good governance is all about good judgement good decision making good morals and good ethics.

    People who display these charactistics will make consistently good judgements.

    Its not IMHO about the moralising its about what their behaviour suggests as regards their professional abilities.

    For this reason only, an employee should be viewed as a risk.

    Especially if they are charged with making high level decisions.

    I have had to deal with employees who displayed bad judgement over relatively minor matters but knowing that this was a pattern of behaviour that would be apparent when they called on to make the big hard decisions.

    And for that reason I had to make a judgement call as to whether they were capable.

    If I was the employer in this case I would have to make the call that they werent capable of performing their task and would have to go.

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  45. Inventory2 (10,443 comments) says:

    Clayotn Cosgrove is the latest to come under the microsope. His trip to the Beijing Olympics cost the taxpayer a packet:

    It also wasn’t easy on the tax-payer’s back pocket sending Mr Cosgrove and his wife to Beijing for the 2008 Olympics. The accommodation for the nine day-stay in an executive deluxe room at China World Motel alone was $6,388 (see receipt).

    Then Prime Minister Helen Clark agreed Mr Cosgrove had to go but questioned the length of the stay in a hand written note on the proposal for overseas travel (see note).

    Mr Cosgrove said the primary importance of the trip was to support New Zealand’s athletes but said he would try and arrange meetings with Ministerial counterparts and representatives of the World Anti-Doping Agency with which he was involved.

    There’s also a suggestion that he and his staff have been somewhat careless with their record-keeping …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3801336/More-MPs-spending-examined

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  46. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    Shane Jones for PM!

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  47. backster (2,185 comments) says:

    Well anyone who books into these hotels weekly watching up to 50 porn movies sometimes 3 a night has to be sick and perverted.
    The Herald also has an article on Clayton Cosgrove who seems to be the biggest trougher yet. His luggage went missing twice as well and had to be replaced with top of the line clothing. The original luggage was insured but the paperwork on his claims is ‘missing’.

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  48. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    Not even that Barnsley, Taipa is about 5 minutes from Mangonui, why the fuck was he not staying at home?

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  49. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    Just because somebody has an above average sex life doesn’t mean they’re no good at their day job. Ask Tiger Woods, David Letterman, Bill Clinton, John Major, Max Mosely, countless musicians, the list goes on and on. Like I said, I think the issue here isn’t that Shane Jones watches porn, but that he didn’t think before using his work credit card to pay for it.

    Also, I’m sure not everyone who is claiming the moral high ground here will be entirely innocent themselves, of not watching porn or not pushing the boundaries with their employer/IRD/whatever. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

    Nobody is perfect and it is good that at least some of the people representing us in parliament don’t claim to be.

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  50. Inventory2 (10,443 comments) says:

    @ nickb – because he couldn’t watch movies at home?

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  51. Johnboy (17,084 comments) says:

    “Just because somebody has an above average sex life doesn’t mean they’re no good at their day job. ”

    When did shagging your own hand mean you had a great sex life?

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  52. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    Perhaps my wording should have been “Just because somebody has an above average sex drive doesn’t mean they’re no good at their day job. ”

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  53. virtualmark (1,540 comments) says:

    Personally I can’t get that wound up about Shane Jones watching steamy movies in a hotel at night (and it’s really not an image I want in my mind …). What people do in their own time is up to them. Watching porn isn’t illegal. It is called a private life for a reason. I thought we’d moved on from being all puritanical about what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own lives. He really needs only to answer to his wife about it. Despite the media’s inevitable attempt to present this as a blockbuster coup this just doesn’t seem to me to be a hanging offence.

    That said, charging it to your Ministerial credit card shows a breathtaking lack of acumen, which should perhaps disqualify you from ever being a Cabinet Minister.

    But … the Yang Liu (sp?) case is far more relevant. That looks like a case where a Cabinet Minister – Mr Jones again – made a … highly debatable decision … clearly against the advice of officials and where there is a lot of smoke at least, if not fire, about improper influence from the person who benefitted from the decision. If improper – and dare I say corrupt – behaviour is shown there then that would be a sacking offence.

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  54. burt (8,324 comments) says:

    virtualmark

    The only sacking offense in the Labour party is saying you might stand as an independent.

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  55. Inventory2 (10,443 comments) says:

    Right; they’ve started on Cunners’ records:

    12.55 PM: One night at a top-end London hotel in Mayfair cost the tax-payer $1435.93, Ministerial credit card receipts reveal.

    Labour MP David Cunliffe travelled to London in his capacity as the Minister for Communications and Information Technology in March 2007.

    The receipt from the staff credit card used to pay for the trip shows Cunliffe and one other person booked two rooms at The Westbury Hotel in Mayfair, London.

    The Westbury is a five-star hotel on London’s exclusive Bond Street. The hotel charged $441 per night for each of the two rooms Cunliffe booked. Lunch at the hotel cost $117 and breakfast was $66.

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  56. Colonel Masters (409 comments) says:

    Riddle me this: Has any of these bastards ever inadvertently charged work expenses to their personal credit card?

    How come it is always the *personal* card which is “in another piece of luggage” or left at home, or, etc., etc.?

    It’s like when the supermarket rings up the wrong total on my receipt, somehow it is always an error in *their* favour.

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  57. bchapman (649 comments) says:

    Good to see someones talking sense here- David Cunliffe and Phil Twyford must be wrapped. Jones will be mocked for the rest of his short career and Twyford will get another chance at a seat- Te Atatu possibly, though given the list votes last time its probably a 50/50 seat.
    Cunliffe and David Parker will be the leaders after next year.
    Chances are they will have a whole new front bench. Thank goodness.

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  58. sooty (65 comments) says:

    Yes Shane Jones is a wanker for putting porn on the company credit card!! BUT the worst is that sanctimonious prick Chris Carter!!! He still whinging that he did no wrong. He still thinks he is entitled to trough as much as he likes. He thinks he can because he is member of the Labour Troughing Club. The prick would go out and do it all again tomorrow giving half a chance.

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  59. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..David Cunliffe and Phil Twyford must be wrapped..”

    (heh..!..)

    and..y’know..!..before farrar gets all hysterically judgmental on these ones..

    ..he should pause and realise/acknowledge that these are just the fall-guys…

    ..for decades of this behaviour…

    by both labour…and national…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  60. dad4justice (8,313 comments) says:

    I think it will be impossible to “rehabilitate” this parasitic trio of wasteful fools. Who in their mind could possibly respect a kiwi politician? What a fucking disgrace this sick country is!

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  61. WestonMan (3 comments) says:

    I heard on radio or tv somewhere that Chris Carter had charged $160 or so for massage services in a Cambodian hotel.

    Having spent my fair share of time working in developing countries I cannot fathom how one could spend such a large amount on massage services…without getting some serious happy ending action!

    This is Cambodia. Massages don’t cost a lot in countries like Cambodia. The question I have is, was Carter paying for extra massage services from strapping young Cambodian massueses?

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