Jones outs himself first
The Herald reports:
MP Shane Jones is expected to be one of the more embarrassed former Labour Cabinet ministers when details of credit-card spending going back six years are released today.
Before leaving office, he is understood to have repaid about $6000 for spending deemed outside the rules.
This included hiring a plane from Auckland to make a speech in Tauranga, movie rentals, and the purchase of magazines and expensive wine.
I hope we get to learn the titles of the movies, and the quality of the wine!
This will dent Shane’s leadership aspirations.
UPDATE: Stuff reports more:
Former Labour government ministers racked up taxpayer-funded credit card bills for a massage, new clothes, wine, pay-per-view movies, a $600 set of golf clubs and chartering a private plane,
A massage and golf clubs!
June 10th, 2010 at 9:04 am
And some boxer shorts.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:08 am
There was a comment on TV this morning about some expenses being reducted because of privacy issues. Didn’t catch much more than that but queation is why would anything spent using our money be considered private?
June 10th, 2010 at 9:12 am
Chris Carter has made a pre-emptive announcement as well. Why am I not suprised.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:13 am
I wonder if the wine was from John Key’s vinyard?
June 10th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Yeah but isn’t it sweet.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3793561/Wine-and-massage-on-the-taxpayer
” LATEST: A former Labour Minister, Chris Carter, has this morning admitted five instances of credit card spending outside of the rules.
He bought flowers for his partner’s birthday in 2004 and purchased a movie in a Washington hotel on New Year’s Eve in 2006. “
June 10th, 2010 at 9:14 am
“Before leaving office, he is understood to have repaid about $6000 for spending deemed outside the rules.”
If he dealt with it and repaid before this became an issue then he may stand on firmer ground than some.
Kevin, the “privacy” issue puzzled me too.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:16 am
“Labour sources admitted yesterday that some MPs would be deeply embarrassed by the release of records from Labour’s final five years in office, which show some of them using their ministerial credit cards like personal cheque accounts. “
June 10th, 2010 at 9:17 am
This is crap. Its not a political polarity problem, its a politician problem.
Cut the allowences to zip. You want to be a politicians this is what you get paid, go nuts or don’t apply.
If you have a system that can be a abused it will be abused so change the system.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:21 am
The system has already changed. This is a purge of past slackness.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:24 am
I want to know more about the “massage”.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:26 am
And if the recipient of said massage was wearing his/her new boxers at the time.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:30 am
From the Herald:
Oh dear. It’s hardly a categorical denial. No more BBQ’s at Shane’s place!
June 10th, 2010 at 9:32 am
A lot of the drip fed expenses news will need more scrutiny before reasonable conclusions can be made.
If this was to entertain visitors it would be very different to if it was all for personal use.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:32 am
This will dent Shane’s leadership aspirations.
I’m not sure about that. Depending on how bad tomorrow’s revelations are, his spending may well be forgotten amid they outrage at others’ excesses. That might be why he decided to front foot today.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:35 am
“It cost more than $50,000 to compile the material, which followed revelations by The Dominion Post in February that Fisheries and Housing Minister Phil Heatley used his credit card to buy personal items, sparking his resignation.”
Had better find at least $50k still out to MPs that can be collected…
TBH I don’t really care about those of them who used their work credit card and then immediately reimbursed us. But it’s disappointing that some are alleged to have kept quiet until chased up by Ministerial Services, I’d like to think those running the country would live by a higher than average moral code.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Jones has had to do quite a bit of front footing so it must be pretty bad news for him.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:44 am
This is like the anti-gay politician taking the rent boy on holiday to ‘carry his bags’. And why, as a centrist I have no time for the socialist left. Despite their righteousness and their criticism of the way the rich choose to live the lefties get the smell of a perk and they are into it boots and all. Jones already has form; remember his double dipping when he was involved in the Fisheries Commission and also an MP. So Mita ‘Tiger’ Ririnui needed golf clubs so urgently (shades of Len Brown) he had to use his Govt. credit card to purchase them? And no Govt. spending should be deemed private.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:45 am
From Stuff
Note that Carter will repay this IN THE FUTURE i.e. after he got caught. And why would a Minister be paying for a movie watched by a staffer?
June 10th, 2010 at 9:46 am
Press release from Labour party:
“Labour ministers credit card spending was an attempt to help stimulate the economy as the global recession began to hit NZ in Labours last year in power.This spending help protect working Kiwi’s jobs and kept Kiwi families in their homes.”
June 10th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Good satire by the Dimpost on this topic.
http://dimpost.wordpress.com/
June 10th, 2010 at 9:50 am
Until when will New Zealand tolerate parasites like Jones, Carter and several other MPs? The latter’s case is particularly bad.
An accomplished trougher dedicated to live the high life at taxpayer’s expense, Carter is not satisfied with his salary and perks. Hell no, he wants whatever freebies he can get for him and his partner.
The delicate Chris Carter must be forced to resign.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:50 am
Would also like to know the quality of the wine bought by Phil Heatley at the National party conference. Was the retail price really $70, or did the National party pocket the difference?
If John Key really is interested in transparency he will let us know the brand and the vintage
I wish the media would report the questionable spending as a % of total spending by a particular minister – while there should be some scrutiny it also should be in perspective.
Bet there are a few corporate CEOs with far more dodgy expense claims than ministers. I wonder how many pairs of golf clubs/memberships have been bought by shareholders over the years?
June 10th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Jones is covering his arse in anticipation of a possible ambush. His card will have been used to pay for hotel expenses of minions and guests. He’s buying time to ascertain what was spent, where and by whom. He says he repaid any personal expenses before he left office. If this turns out to be the case, I don’t see any problem – I have often found it necessary or convenient to use the firm’s card when there is a mix of personal and company purchases or I’ve left my own card in another piece of luggage.
Lets see how it plays out.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:55 am
So does this mean we’re eventually going to see Roger Douglas’s expenses from the 80s? Or the previous National Govt?
I mean, I can sort of see the public good in the raking over old claims, but if you’re only doing it selectively, not so much.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:59 am
RRM doesn’t like accoutnability and thinks its a waste of money to have it applied to labour. It was a different song when it was national.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:03 am
It’s never good to have your name in the same sentence as the word porn, but especially not as the lead story on the herald.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:04 am
A lot of the spending is really trivial as you expect people to spend money on such things. But agree with most of the sentiments here, most people will buy such things, but with who’s money?
I think the MPs should know better i.e. if there is a Ministerial Credit Card at all for you when you become a Minister you would expect they would find out exactly the types of things they can spend on.
And whatever is a grey area they should be onto it enough to just purchase it out of their own money (their salary) and keep the receipt and have a look at it later (have decent look at it) to see whether it is valid to then make an expense claim as that is what most businesses and organisations do…
Am certainly interested in this massage whether it is was a white light one (your rehab/therapeutic ones) or a red light one (the other kind)…
June 10th, 2010 at 10:06 am
The left really is low-rent when you look at what the money was spent on. I was hoping for a good old fashioned moat cleaning.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:07 am
lyndon – what are you on about? They’ve released National’s expenses as well, it’s not selective at all.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:07 am
I notice he is now saying he ‘can’t recall’ if the movies he hired were pornographic or not. Hmm…
June 10th, 2010 at 10:08 am
While I love to abuse the abusers like everyone else will today on the misuse of Ministers expense cards.. I am also thinking.. while all our attention is fixed on this issue… I wonder what the bigger issue is that the Govt is diverting us and the media from…. call me suspicious but I see a smokescreen a storm in a tea-cup that is diverting our attention..
Good to see Little now has a better chance at the Labour Party now… that Shane’s has revealed his inappropriate spending on inappropriate DVD movie titles.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:11 am
I think all MP’s (and civil servants) should have to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Use your own money (or CC) for your expenses and then submit a claim every month. Not having a ministerial CC is the safest way not to abuse it.
They should also have to move to Wellington if they’re a list MP. That’s where the job is, if you don’t want to move to Wellington don’t apply for the job.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:19 am
“lyndon – what are you on about? They’ve released National’s expenses as well, it’s not selective at all.”
lyndon and Joe work for Labour Central Damage Control.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:27 am
And we welcome the left running interference – Joe Hendren starts us off:
Joe, unless you are a shareholder in these businesses, it is none of your fucking business!!!! If you are a shareholder, then it is your duty to do diligence on the company before buying shares, and/or attending board meetings to make sure these practices are rooted out.
Now fuck off back to the stranded.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Nice photo of two useless mouths here:
http://nominister.blogspot.com/
Well done Adolf!
June 10th, 2010 at 10:31 am
But mattyroo it would be the business of the Serious Fraud Office, Securities Commission (for prospective purchasers of shares in such businesses) etc…
But difference is that Government spending is public (tax payers) and more transparent and even more rigorous in its accountability procedures…
June 10th, 2010 at 10:46 am
“http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3793561/Kitchenwear-splurge”
“10.05AM: Larger than life Labour MP Parekura Horomia spent $500 on a meal at Grand Century Chinese Restaurant in Wellington in June 2004. The meal was an official dinner, the receipt explains. ”
$500 would only cover what fatso could eat. What about his guests?
June 10th, 2010 at 10:48 am
They’ve released National’s expenses as well, it’s not selective at all.
Herald:
The details of ministerial credit-card spending will be released today under the Official Information Act.
…
Until this year, only the total spent on ministerial credit cards has been released, not the details.
But Prime Minister John Key decided that full details should be made public.
Ongoing release of current expenses is not the same as going back over historical spending. As I say, I wouldn’t have a problem with that – though I’d wonder if it was worth the resources – if the plan to do everything as far back as you can. But this is just ministerial expenses, and for a limited period.
I’m not saying anything found isn’t real; just that the approach does not seem to be motivated by fairness. But I’m also not clear about how all this came about, so there you are.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:50 am
“LATEST: MPs’ expenses revealed this morning include former Labour Minister Chris Carter spending $607.79 on kitchenware in Europe”
Funny that, he has only admitted to a total of $251.16 on his statement at Red Alert. Must have just overlooked this one.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:51 am
I’m all for accountability Murray. This has the ability to seriously affect my future voting as unlike most trash talked about Labour which is ideological sour grapes, this might uncover actual fraud/theft/call it what you will. Crime. But so far the most scandalous item discovered is a movie, $26.
I don’t see how it can cost fifty thousand dollars to go through a stack of Visa bills. So should they uncover/recover nothing near the $50k cost of doing the exercise, then I will be regarding the difference as National Party campaign expenditure.
And should they uncover an average of $20 per head in parking fees and takeaway lattes then I will be regarding it as H Fee Mk 4. Let’s just wait and see.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Inventory2 (4457) Says:
June 10th, 2010 at 9:45 am
From Stuff
Mr Carter said he had carefully checked his records and it appeared he had used the cards outside of the rules on five occasions. ….
Note that Carter will repay this IN THE FUTURE i.e. after he got caught. And why would a Minister be paying for a movie watched by a staffer?
Probably because he settled the Hotel bill on behalf of the staffer .
This is peanuts to be honest. Most businesses allow their staff or executives latitude on this sort of thing. Watching movies in a hotel room – so what! The range of what you can watch free on Hotel TV is crap – fox, cnbc, abc, money market shows with jim kramer!, 10 channels of sport all showing the same baseball game. Discovery chaneel showing ads of the Nat Geo channel which you cant get. Carter pays back the princely sum of $251 after it cost tens of 1000′s to prepare the info, probably more.
June 10th, 2010 at 10:59 am
RRM @9:35 am> I’d like to think those running the country would live by a higher than average moral code.
Where have you been.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:03 am
Chris has just come clean on radio. It was him who got the massage.
Maybe that’s why he had to buy some flowers for his partner.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:04 am
RRM, don’t let the facts get in the way of your ideology will you? Why should this be classed as National Party campaign expenditure? Their expenditure is also being revealed, it’s a bi-partisan expose.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Its moments like these that I wish there were a few Green MP Ministers.
The Greens are always looking for a free ride.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:27 am
“LATEST: MPs’ expenses revealed this morning include former Labour Minister Chris Carter spending $607.79 on kitchenware in Europe”
Yes, I can see how that expenditure could be conected with one’s with Ministerial duties.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:29 am
Mattyroo there is no means for the vast majority of shareholders to find out this information – that was my point. Talking of a duty of potential shareholders to find out such information is patently ridiculous when it is not in the interests of corporate management to disclose such information. They are as likely to out themselves as ministers before ministerial credit card spending was routinely released.
Many other countries have more stringent laws on corporate disclosure, and its common in the EU for even private companies to disclose more financial information than they do in NZ – civilised states recognise there is a wider stakeholder interest in such information.
As for claims by some I am some kind of Labour party stooge – I am sure many in the Labour party would find such claims hysterical. Have a look at my blog before you make such claims.
For the record I am not defending the spending of any individual minister, only looking to ensure these issues are kept in some perspective. Some spending is legitimate. If DPF is going to question Jones’ wine, then the same should apply to Heatley.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:30 am
lyndon “As I say, I wouldn’t have a problem with that – though I’d wonder if it was worth the resources – if the plan to do everything as far back as you can. But this is just ministerial expenses, and for a limited period.”
The IRD requires businesses to keep records for 7 years. I’ll leave it up to you to investigate how long these records are required to be kept by government, but I’d expect 7 years to be the likely rule there.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:32 am
“11.13AM: Former Labour Minister Chris Carter’s records suggest he spent almost $6000 on limousines during a four-day trip to Adelaide in April 2004.
A staff member’s credit card statement records total expenditure of $5507.11 on Hughes Chauffered Limousines of Richmond SA.
Elsewhere a handwritten note on the statement says: “Land Transport costs while travelling with the Hon C. Carter in Adelaide”.
Oh the gay gift that just keeps giving and giving……..no sorry that should be the gay gift that just keeps taking and taking.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:41 am
I want to know when they paid the money back.
Those who only paid when they became aware of the official information request should resign immediately and be charged with theft as they clearly had no intention of ever paying, it is a clear case of theft.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:42 am
The fact that he “can’t recall” whether any of the movies were porn or not tells me only one thing…. That he does watch porn.
If he never watched porn then he’d be able to say “no it wasn’t porn, I don’t watch that stuff”.
This guy is touted as a future leader of the Labour Party. Ewwww….
June 10th, 2010 at 11:47 am
This really pisses me off…
We should organise an MP expense watch group that advocates for full OIA inclusion of Parliament and Parliamentary expenditure…
Michael Laws on his show today, stated that the Police must investigate for theft if formal complaints are laid, not a bad idea that… They might start getting the message…
June 10th, 2010 at 11:50 am
This clue is obvious –
06/03/08
$21.50 Movie Stamford Plaza
07/03/08
$21.50 Movie Stamford Plaza
28/03/08
$18.68 Movie Stamford Plaza
June 10th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Oh Joe, I never implied that you were a “Labour stooge”. I just told you to piss off back to where all your type come from, I was just slightly wrong in my ultimate destination for you, instead of being Cuba (the stranded), it should’ve been Pol Pot era Cambodia, all greens “Happy Place”.
June 10th, 2010 at 11:56 am
If were pissed off now… Wait for the wet bus ticket punishments to come out… for the guilty.
June 10th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
There’s more of Carter’s stuff on Stuff now:
I think that Chris Carter’s initial offer to repay $251.16 to Internal Affairs is only the tip of the iceberg …
June 10th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Fuck me, now that is a surprise. Parekura likes food. Well I never.
June 10th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
The so-called disciples for the New Zealand working class/less fortunate have been caught with greed, selfishness and theft.
Why am I not surprised? Justice is only aimed at those that don’t steer the system of authority.
June 10th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
The useless Tizard was gorging on salmon and champagne at my expense. Helen’s best mate surely knows how to steal from the taxpayer.
Judith Tizard splashed out more than $200 on two bottles of wine at dinner at Cin Cin Auckland. The $155 bottle of Bollinger champagne and a $55 bottle of Allan Scott were purchased on the MP’s credit card on 23 May 2008, and accompanied a meal of roast salmon, grilled tuna and fresh figs.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
@ Manolo – she obviously believed that she had taken over Jonathan Hunt’s mantle as Minister of Wine and Cheese, and saw this as a legitimate ministerial expense …
June 10th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
The hypocrisy of some of these politicians is quite unbelievable. These same people were quick to penalize the so called “rich pricks”, many in NZ had to put up with vile, scorn and hatred from the socialists. I wonder if these pricks gave one minute of thought to where the cash for their lifestyles came from. At least the so called rich pricks use their own credit cards, I’m afraid many politicians would be totally fucked if they had to fend for themselves. Take the cards off the bastards, be interesting to see how keen they are to “serve” then.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
I wanna know how much was spent by the dyke mafia on pussy in whore houses.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Breaking news…
Shane Jones admits watching Porn and paying for it with tax payer money.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
From Stuff:
Wait for the howls of outrage from the women of the Labour caucus …
June 10th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Jones, what a tosser!
June 10th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
He have been watching that old classic “Left Wing Lesbian Lovers” in which case he should be OK with the Dykeocracy.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
I wonder if he charged any tissues to the ministerial card?
June 10th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Does this make Jones NZ’s first professional wanker? He’s getting paid for it after all…
June 10th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
If Jones has paid back the expenditure within a reasonable time of it taking place eg within a month then I dont see a problem. That would suggest to me that he used the card for convenience sake and knew he had to pay back as personal expediture.
However it does seem he had a case of the guilts later on – probably when someone in his dept tapped him on the shoulder and pointed out that a “pattern of behaviour” was obvious from his Hotel Bills.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
This is a monumental debacle for the socialist Labour Party, which falsely purports to represent NZ working class.
What a bunch of weasels, troughers and crooks it has as leaders.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
This is much worse for Jones, only this morning on Radio Live he denied watching porn, now he admits it.
What happened between 9am and now?
June 10th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
The interesting point is that it all happened under the watch of that person who was reputed to run a pretty tight ship.
Perhaps that was all bullshit just like the claim that the country prospered when she was PM.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
troughing thieving scum…every single one of them. We need a clean out…the whole lot..red , blue , green…gone.
Start again..
June 10th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
It’s quite odd the split in expenses: Labour MPs have been literally troughing it – Tizard spending $155 on Bolly (hideously overpriced muck, but what would you expect from her?); Parekura on food. Then there are the bauble-buyers: Shane Jones having a wank; Chris Carter buying pretty things and hiring 4WDs; Mita Ririnui buying a set of golf clubs.
Then you have Tim Groser holding the right’s end up by drinking his way around the world, with Murray McCully stepping in with a quick $500 on booze.
And just back to Ririnui: he spent $800 of my money on golf clubs, the prick; I haven’t got a fucking set myself, for Christ’s sake…
June 10th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
You all forget that Murray McCully has spent $2000 dollars on laundry – all charged to the tax payer.
This isn’t a Labour issue, this is a political issue that is embedded in a culture of political theft and misuse of funding – yet they campaign on transparency, accountability and every other term that means nothing to them.
It just goes to show that our current system just isn’t working.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
bearhunter… consider them all bears.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Interesting was Jones comment this morning that “it was the Maoris [in Labour] who got caught. Fair cop.” This indicates a mindset on two levels that really shows the extent to which he is unfit to hold public office with authority to commit NZ to uncounted millions of expenditure.
I say two levels because there is firstly the personal level. Quite clearly he has no concept of propriety, dignity or ethical behaviour in that he obviously let his feet leave the ground and was caught up in the excitement of having power, social standing and having a bunch of lackeys running round at his beck and call. Not exactly the wise and competent sort we look for to run the country.
The second level will cause me to be vilified as a racist but there is a Maori dimension also at play. The “fair cop” statement really grated with me because quite obviously he considered it to be a big game with no consequences, a sort of “oh damn it you caught me. Never mind we will reboot the program, set the counters to zero and start again” No shame, no remorse, just .. ‘I’m just the bloke next door doing what blokes do” accompanied by a shrug of the shoulders and a disarming little-boy grin.
And yet we are happily handing out hundreds of millions of dollars to iwi, hapu, whanau and tribe where the level of financial probity must be several points lower that that exhibited by the cream of the crop who get elected to Parliament.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
It just goes to show that our current system just isn’t working.
work works.. systems don’t… they are either good or bad.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Fale Andrew Lesser – So you would have our Minister of Foreign Affairs turn up day after day in other countries particularly in the tropics with sweat stained shirts and yesterday’s underpants? If you have ever travelled to Capitals of the countries that McCully has been to, you would discover that hotel laundry is heinously expensive and it is often cheaper, if you can fit the time in to buy it, to buy new clothes every day.
But then you would be bitching that he should wash his shirts in the bathtub of his hotel room.
Tropical countries in particular are bad to the extent that it is often appropriate to shower and change several times in a day.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Slimey Jones… he has’nt got a hope of gettig the womans vote.
his mana is now a banana.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Judith Tizard raking up some Dom Pergion champagne on the Ministerial card. Just why am I not surprised that tasteless slob chose THAT champagne (not NZ mind). What was going through her mind when she did that. “I deserve this, taxpayer can pay, let’s have a ball.”
June 10th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Of course it’s us the punters who end up paying the bill so it’s fair that we impose some conditions on the largese that a parliamentary life enjoys.For instance you could put restrictions on the cards use by coding them so that they only work in approved accomodation chains and limit air travel to economy class.Food could be sourced from approved providers like Cobb & Co or MacDonald vouchers for the busy.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7376609/jones-billed-19-adult-moves-to-taxpayer/
Its beginning to look like the old “Red Blooded Male” might actually be in need of psychotherapy.
He might be able to get us to pay for it by citing job related stress as the cause of his sexual problems.
Anyone spotted Phool Goofs press release on how he is dealing with the crisis? No. Thought not.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
David, if you don’t realise – a Minister’s salary is an excess of $200,000 dollars a year. $2000 dollars for laundry is not that much in comparison.
I don’t think a single corporate job in the world allows you to use the company credit card for your own laundry costs.
p.s
My sirname is Lesa, a German name without the double ‘s’.
[DPF: On the contrary laundry costs while travelling are quite standard in my experience. The test is whether you gain soem personal benefit from the expenditure or is this a cost you are forced to incur because you are not at home]
June 10th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Time Tim Groser sought AA help for his boozing addiction…. and pay for it himself… arrr sack him with the rest of them.
Clean slate sack em all.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
@ TVB: “Judith Tizard raking up some Dom Pergion champagne on the Ministerial card. Just why am I not surprised that tasteless slob chose THAT champagne…”
It was Bollinger, I thought. Either way, overpriced muck. Had it been Billecarte-Salmon I might have been slightly less pissed off.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
“Fale Andrew Lesa (241) Says:
June 10th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
… I don’t think a single corporate job in the world allows you to use the company credit card for your own laundry costs.”
Of course corporates allow you to use company credit cards for laundry – if you are away for a week or so – you have to.
how else can you get clean socks & undies – we dont all have the pragmatism and skills of Don Brash
June 10th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Hmm, I’m not sure VOR – maybe by paying for it themselves?
Ministers’ are sitting on fat salary cheques, why should the state also fund their laundry bills’? it just doesn’t seem appropriate to me, they get paid more than enough as it is with the current perks in place and yet they continue ‘milking’ the system.
Something is not right and something needs to be done. Tagging this as a Labour party issue will not provide the solutions’ that I favour.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
F.A.L. No offence meant with the misspelling.
I certainly do realise what a Minister’s salary is and I would make two points.
Firstly I would not expect a minister to have to pay for his laundry while travelling, any more than I would expect him to pay for his own local transport, meals, excess baggage, or the expenses of staff travelling with him.
Many corporates allow laundry as legit expenditure.
I did hear that at one stage in the 1990′s, the NZ Dairy Board regional marketing manager in Singapore expected his staff who were often travelling for 2 weeks at a time through multiple countries in SE Asia, to wash their clothes in their hotel room and to carry their own soap powder for the purpose. The policy was short-lived. People who took three suits and had them all drycleaned on a 2 day trip were easy to detect and either did no more travelling or got the message pretty bloody quickly when their expense claim was rejected.
The other point is that it would be a strange situation to allocate someone a salary then tell him how it should be spent while on the company’s business. Remember these guys are away often for several weeks at a time and are on the go 7 days, often negotiating/entertaining/being entertained most nights and most weekends. There is no overtime, days off in lieu etc so I have no issues at all with the taxpayer picking up the costs.
On the subject of Shane Jones, would it have been acceptable for us to pick up the tab for a movie if it had been “The Sound of Music”? If so, what is the problem with something blue? after all prostitution is legal now so surely we have moved on from burnings at the stake.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Remember also that Ministers never travel alone. There are always staffers in attendance ansd often reps from the local embassy tacked on to the travelling party.
What has proven unclear is the extent to which someone like Grosser would shout for the team during a debrief after a day’s work. I can believe that the safest place for a team talk would be in the security of the biggest room available – likely the Minister’s and a mini-bar could get a hammering very easily in those circumstances just like the team meal would be charged back to one room or another. the wise minister has most of these expenses charged back to his Private Secretary’s room or the room of the most junior member of the travelling party.
June 10th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Thank you very much David, your analysis was entirely appreciated and I am grateful for the knowledge of correction.
I was applying a secondary school theory to the same argument – if we were sent away to represent the school in full uniform, we were expected to pay for all laundry related costs.
It was very foolish of me to apply the principle to corporate/parliamentary protocol.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
F.A.L – I travel for business alot and without a hotel laundry service I’d be wearing smelly shirts and pongy socks
It is a common and definately legitimate business expense. Sure if you are in your home environment no problem with doing it & paying yourself.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Something is not right for sure, and it’s not being tagged simply as a Labour party issue. One reason they are under the spotlight however, is that earlier this year Phil Heatley was in the spotlight and resigned his cabinet post over his spending. Now is just Labour’s turn, it’s that simple.
What is highlighted IMO is that ALL politicians and ALL public servants should be the models of austerity. There is no justification for profligacy in public spending. Public servants should have functional, comfortable offices to work in, but not at the top of the price range and not flashy. Politicians are paid well, and their expenses should be limited to what is required in the course of their duties. This should not include partner’s travel unless the partner is required to attend a state function. All list MP’s should have to live in Wellington or else pay their own travel and accommodation.
And all public spending needs to be published (over a threshold such as $100) and open to scrutiny and complaints.
Let’s turn this country around.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Andrew,
I’ll warrant the headmaster has his laundry costs covered when he is away at meetings of the Federation, on a recruitment drive for Samoan rugby player scholarships in Apia or as part of a Trade Mission selling education in India or China.
The Secondary School travelling sports team model doesn’t translate particularly well because, the team isn’t in No1′s all the time and the competition is out on the sports field rather than in a situation where appearances are important so it is in the Company’s interest to have their representatives looking presentable and successful all the time. Besides everyone knows that a hint of scruffy and chalk dust on the baggy food stained blazer is “uniform” for Secondary School teachers.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Latest from Shane:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3796622/Shane-Jones-Minister-of-Pornography
June 10th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
David,
I was referring to school council conferences, debate tournaments, BOT Conferences, etc. I was frequently representing the Auckland Grammar for such initiatives and was never once assisted in laundry costs.
I even represented the school at Youth Parliament 2007, the school insisted that full-uniform was expected and again no assistance for laundry was offered.
I guess you could argue that the school adopts a ‘Conservative’ approach to spending, where a ‘pay as you go’ ideology is the preference?
Unfortunately I was never a sports team associate.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Time to kick them all out and install a benevolent dictatorship.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
This whole sorry saga still has a long way to go I suspect.
Liarbour must be really shitting themselves looking at the 280 comments (and rising rapidly) on the Stuff site most are from Liarbour stooges trying to spin it and turn it back on Fairfax.
They all are using basically the same phraseology so its obviously a jack up.
Might explain why Goof hasn’t fronted at all on it he knows that there is much worse to come.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Bevan. I thought we had that with Helengrad and that’s when the rot and corruption really got going!
June 10th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Even MMMMMMMMMMat McCarten thinks Jones and Carter are screwed.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
The only way out for Carter and Jones is to resign immediately. They are corrupt to the core.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Oh God. 90% of all New Zealand males have watched a porno, and the other 10% are lying (except my Dad, I’m pretty sure he’s never seen one).
It won’t hurt him in the long run to admit this. Except maybe with the Labour Wimmins Caucus.
Douchebag John Key is spending fifty million on a cycleway. Frankly he’d get better value for money flying Jenna Jamieson over to suck his cock, and filming it. Cycling just gives you haemhorroids, and nobody wants to see that on DVD.
[DPF: 20 demerits for un necessary references to Jenna and PM's cock]
June 10th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Thing is, it’s not just a movie occasionally. The receipt shows four movies in 2 days at the Sky City Grand Hotel for example
http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/shanejones-misc.jpg
In the long run Blair, maybe it won’t hurt him, but it will certainly have an impact in the short term. And while 90% of males probably have watched a porno I’m sure that a lot less than that have watched at least 12 over a 3 month period.
And agreed on the cycleway.
June 10th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
I wonder how Phil Goff will reconcile his attitude towards Phil Heatley’s exoneration by the Auditor-General with today’s revelations. He accused Heatley of having a “sense of entitlement” …
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/06/who-said-this.html
June 10th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
@ Blair – why would you need to fly Jenna Jamieson in when Lisa Lewis is in Hamilton?
June 10th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
@ IV2: Presumably because you’d want people to watch it…
June 10th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Who’s Jenna Jamieson?
June 10th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Hey Blair my personal preference would be Jenna Haze, but I digress. All the MP’s in New Zealand can go to hell and back, under MMP they are nothing but a pack of useless pricks and prickesses. Time for a clean out, spot election now, and then the wankers and wankesses can reapply for thier jobs.
June 10th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Shane Jones watched porn because of Post Colonial Stress Syndrome.
June 10th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
It just keeps gets better. Annette King says Jones must put his head down and his bottom up!
June 10th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
It’s an interesting insight into what traveling Ministers do at the end of a busy day. Shane Jones wanks, Tim Groser drinks. Now, which would have the Minister in the better state of mind for the next busy day?
Not that the taxpayer should fund either, I might add.
June 10th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Shane Jones’ comments would have been okay if he was a factory worker explaining to the line manager why he got a little excited with the company budget.
But for a MP who may be the Labour leader one day? You just have to know what to say, when and how. Fair enough he is trying to be honest but good grief what a wanker!
http://www.angel-charlene.com
June 10th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
“Not that the taxpayer should fund either, I might add.”
Well done toad, that is the crux of the matter.
June 10th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
“It’s an interesting insight into what traveling Ministers do at the end of a busy day. Shane Jones wanks, Tim Groser drinks.”
For gods sake Toad, show some pity, we don’t need to know what Chris Carter did when he was a traveling minister.
June 10th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
“For gods sake Toad, show some pity, we don’t need to know what Chris Carter did when he was a traveling minister.”
Well Johnboy, my guess would be living it up large on the taxpayers money.
June 10th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Are their any limits to the attitude as to what these pillars (FFS some have suggested this man could lead the labour party) consider to be allowed activities and entitlements.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
All of those cabinet ministers have a number of clerical staff monitoring their credit card expenditure and accounting for it. It baffles me that none of those public servants saw any need to bring these matters to the attention of any of the cabinet ministers.
In their position I would have quietly advised that such expenditure will be a bad look when it sees the light of day, and for the good of their futures in politics may I suggest that such expenditure cease forthwith. That is what any responsible bureaucrat would do, but I believe that they are too busy worrying about gender equality, equal opportunities and smoke free environments. That means that they have have no time left for the really important things. Things like protecting their bosses’ arse.
Okay, I accept that in Chris Carter’s case that is an unfortunate metaphor.
June 11th, 2010 at 6:43 am
Tauhei,
The fact is that Cabinet Ministers were warned about their credit card expenditure, but presumably they didn’t like being told what to do by mere officials.
Until recently I was working for a government department. I issued credit cards to staff. I worked for a fairly small department but there would be at least 50 staff with credit cards at any one time. Some with limits of $10,000. We’d be chasing up staff to reconcile their statements and sometimes it would take months to get the info we asked for. Sometimes we wouldn’t get receipts but a memo saying everything was hunky dory. If we questioned anything that looked dodgy, we usually didn’t get very far.
There must be hundreds of public servants with work-related credit cards. Expenditure relating to these should be scrutinised in the same way that Ministers’ credit cards expenditure is being examined.
June 11th, 2010 at 6:58 am
>likely the Minister’s and a mini-bar could get a hammering very easily in those circumstances….
Well yes it could. That’s not the issue. The issue is that the Minister should pay for it out of his own pocket. I would find it hard to believe that the Minister is destitute or doesn’t have a personal credit card. He can drink as much as he likes, as long as he pays for it. It’s like the situation last year with Bill English and his sense of entitlement over accommodation allowances. If he wants to live in lavish accommodation, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with him expecting me to pick up the tab. Ministers get well paid. They can afford to pay their own way. They certainly expect us to.