Palmer to head Gaza inquiry?
June 6th, 2010 at 5:02 pm by David FarrarHaaretz reports:
United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has conveyed a proposal to Israel to set up an international commission of inquiry into the raid on the Gaza-bound aid flotilla a week ago.
The head of the committee would be former New Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer, an expert on maritime law. Committee members would include representatives from the United States, Turkey and Israel.
Senior officials at the Foreign Ministry said Israel should consider the idea favorably.
I think this is a very good thing. It would reinforce NZ’s role as a honest broker who doesn’t take sides, and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.
With so many allegations on both side, an independent inquiry which establishes what happened, and what was legal, would be very useful.
June 6th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
If Palmer takes the job, let’s hope he makes the inquiry broad enough to cover the Hamas-rort aspect of the Gaza aid.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,698766,00.html
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Would this be the same Geoffrey Palmer who was happy to consider alleged rape a ‘guilty until proven innocent’ offence?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Yes! Let’s exile the bastard! Maybe he will leave our booze alone.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Why oh why oh why…
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Why is it all of a sudden UN business?
Vote:Israel surely doesn’t need the UN’s permission to conduct its own affairs.
June 6th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
This is the doodery fool who saddled us with a Bill of Rights,
Also with The Principals of the Treaty of Waitangi which has done nothing but cause heart ache and hardship for all NZers and can’t even orgainize how we can have a beer in New Zealand.
The UN is a sad sad joke, we should not be even remotely proud as a country to be involved with the clowns.
Israel will be really worried now Big Geoff is riding into town …………… FFS
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
What a laugh. Even a Palmer headed inquiry would find Israel guilty. There will be acknowlegement that there was provocation (knives, iron bars, molotov cocktails, Islamic jihadi chants and shots from firearms taken from Israeli soldiers taken hostage by the ‘peace protesters’) but the end result will be a report that says Israel acted with disproportionate force.
Israel is hatedanyway so next time they should just sink the bastards and get it over with.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Brian Smaller is on to it. The inquiry could be headed by a blind, mute goat and the outcome would be yet another condemnation of Israel.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Failed NZ Labour Prime Minister to lead Gaza inquiry???
Please don’t let the fool take his trumpet with him (he fancies himself as a bit of a horn man) – the spectacle of him blowing and blowing till the walls come down would be just too embarrassing for all the other blameless NZers back here in Godzone.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
David, with respect, do you really consider the UN independent in any matter concerning Israel? Asking Palmer to head an inquiry is merely applying lipstick to the pig.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
I agree, it will be a whitewash from a partial witness, the UN.
Utter Bullshit.
Israel is a sovereign Nation who doesn’t need any one’s permission to protect her citizens.
NZ should be first in the line to say Turkey should back off as should all other countries, the blockade is there for a reason.
When Shalit Gilad is freed, the rockets and tunneling for attacks and kidnapping stops and Israel’s right to exist is recognised, then and only then should the blockade be lifted.
And where is this we are an honest broker rubbish from?
We signed an FTA with China and now Russia, two of the biggest Polluters and Human rights abusers in the world.
Crap, where were we over Zimbabwe, Sudan, Burma, China, Cuba, Indonesia & Saudi Arabia, have we ever asked for their voting rights to be denied for their human rights abuses.
Vote:If we had then I might agree that we were an honest broker but we have never.
June 6th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
krazykiwi 5.39, it will be, by the looks of it.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Jack
I wonder if he’ll find time to swim in their Olympic sized swimming pool?
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242
maybe he’ll eat in the fancy restaurants the press do but never tell us about.
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/25/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/#ixzz0p7sSNAwm
or he’ll shop in the plentiful stores that the activists do.
http://nwodaily.com/2010/05/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-swim-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/
http://israelseen.com/2010/05/27/free-gaza-fancy-restaurants-olympic-size-swim-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/
Maybe he’ll stay in their Grand Palace
Vote:http://www.grandpalace.ps/
June 6th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
if only they could bottle yr toxicities ….eh…?
i actuallly clicked on this thread..’cos i thought…wtf could the morons find to spew bile on this one…?
but you proved me wrong…
(you know those intense feelings you have when you express yr hatreds..?
you know they are eating you up from the inside..eh..?
but..darwinian natural selection..i s’pose..eh..?..)
..carry on….
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Brian Smaller (2602) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
What a laugh. Even a Palmer headed inquiry would find Israel guilty. There will be acknowlegement that there was provocation (knives, iron bars, molotov cocktails,
What stupid, self serving, zionist loving bullshit.
The provocation was the Israeli assault on an unarmed merchant vessel. Compounded by the fact the many of the dead were shot in the head from 45cm, in the back, by these cowardly thuggish Zionistas.
Brian, you are usually a voice of reason, why, on this topic, are you a useful idiot pushing Zionist propaganda?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
“NZ’s role as a honest broker who doesn’t take sides, and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”
Oh surely you jest David.
Billydorker, where is you evidence of shot in the head from 45cm, that is unusually precise from the like of you.
It might have escaped your notice that another ship was boarded a few nights ago and there were no casualties. The reason no-one was shot? They did what was asked and didn’t attempt to stab, maim or kill Israeli soldiers.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Maybe is Israeli terrorist thugs hadn’t boarded an unarmed merchant ship there would have been no attempts to stab, maim or kill Israeli Zionistas.
Cam, you’re just one more useful idiot in the service of a terrorist state.
Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
With Palmer on the job.. Israel will now only be aloud to kill a set quota of Gaza aid activists.
Israel should consider the idea favorably.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
the soldiers are not at fault, i would have emptied my clip if 20 people were running at me with knives and poles.
the officer running the op should stand down. he underestimated the situation.
end of report.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
“and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”
Surely DPF said that with tongue firmly in cheek. Winner of the best joke heard so far this year.
Palmer would be fair? The ‘well-past-his-due-date’ pompous Labour politician is an utter fool. You have to look at his flimsy track record to surmise the man is a complete wet, a chardonnay socialist, a clown captured by political correctness, a non-entity.
Israel is an independent state and should not allow U.N. interference, let alone Palmer investigating any thing.
The U.N. is beyond help if they select the hopeless Palmer to lead such investigation. The outcome is already pre-determined.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Err…we ARE talking about Geoffrey Palmer, the same man who sold NZ’s anti-whaling seat on the right hand of God down the drain…aren’t we? The same man who said that “we” – yes, ALL of this country – would be happy for Nasty Nippon to continue whaling, as long as the scientific loophole was closed…? Ahhh, yes, THAT man!!!
Vote:Wonder what words of wisdom he’ll spout forth in this inquiry…?
“It’s ok to attack soldiers, as long as we call ourselves peaceful protesters”?
Or perhaps he could use the Waihopai defence: “we killed the protesters because we thought it would be for the greater good”!
June 6th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Billy Borker
“Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics.”
Do you feel as strongly about the Palestinian terror tactics?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
More to the point, treat the whole UN interference with the contempt it deserves.You can be sure everyone else in the world will, particularly the Israelis. The UN is an expensive, pathetic joke that should be disbanded.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
“…where is you evidence of shot in the head from 45cm, ”
it’s widely available..
some with up to five bullets in them..from that distance..
and some in the back of the head…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
“… and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”
Words completely fail me, DPF. This pompous, pontificating prick, possessor of NZ’s least deserved knighthood, should forever be hanging his head after his infliction of his dreamed up “principles of the Treaty of Waitangi” upon us – and all the gi-normous expense, racial disruption and corruption it has unleashed. If anyone epitomises political prostitution, it is he.
The man is a completely over-qualified twit. Who’d wouldn’t want him near a local council dispute, let alone something towards which the UN would be automatically and completely biased. We’ve enough lunatic “protestors” – Minto, Locke, etc., doing our image nothing but harm – and by what streak of insanity would we want to be remotely involved with something as dubiously self-sustaining as the UN?
In any other country’s case – except Israel’s – the right to scrutinise or prohibit entry would be stringently endorsed and upheld – yet TVNZ gives inordinate coverage to the Greens’ wacky viewpoint – holders of 6.5% support in the polls. Ab-so-lutely nucking futs!!!
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
big bruv, in a word NO.
Defending your homeland is not terror, but the Zionista invasion of Palestine was most certainly terror.
Israel, born in terror, sustained by terror.
Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Positan (46) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
“… and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”
Words completely fail me, DPF
So why’d you keep typing them?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Billy borker
“Defending your homeland is not terror”
Then why do you have a problem with “the Jews”?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Geoffrey Palmer is a fantasist… He still believes in a great big melting pot.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
I have no problem with the jews, as long as they pack their bags and get the fuck out of the middle east.
Guess you’re just one more useful idiot swallowing the zionista bullshit, hook, line and sinker.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
heh i like billy, he is rational
i like the statement “many of the dead”. wasnt there like 9 killed in total? many suggests a lot more than that.
fuck em, they were on their way to cause shit, the attacked israeli soldiers and got killed. fair game.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
I guess the UN could, but it seems an awful waste of time and money to simply dust off the already written report.
Why can’t they just get Goldstone back to do another? The world seemed to find his last one perfectly acceptable.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
the attacked israeli soldiers
Would you defend yourself, or roll over and be arse fucked by a Zionista?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
ololololol. Palmer has as much credibility as Goldstein, coming from the Labour Party.
You let yourself be arse fucked by a Catholic priest, so it can’t be all bad.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:36 pm
billyborker
Why hold back, why not tell us that you would prefer to see Israel and all its people wiped off the face of the earth?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
I wonder if Father Thompson and his six inch cock realise the damage they did to young Billy.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
I have no idea about the facts of the incident beyond some brief media reports. I didn’t realise so many kiwibloggers were eyewitnesses on the ship.
If a Commission of Inquiry would be dissed as much in advance in the Middle East as it is by the entrenched conclusion jumpers here I can’t see it changing much (that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be investigated).
So far it seems to have been a major international PR disaster for the Israelis, an inquiry may actually help their case.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
If Palmer’s involved, it will be anything but.
This man personifies professional integrity.
In addition, he has internationally recognised heavy-weight credentials, being an ex-PM and all. Good on him.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
borker – if i was in that situation i would sit down and shut the fuck up and let them do their job.
but hey, im always happy to see left wing “activists” and terrorists bring a steel rod to a gun fight.
shame all 600 didnt get taken out.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
To those that support the flotilla…….welcome to the jihad ,you are part of it.
Israel today,who next? Just dont mention the rockets.
billyporker and where should the Jews go from out of the Middle East?Jews lived in Arabia at the time of he who should not be depicted…..and as they did not follow him the men had their throats cut and the women and children became slaves.The Turks on the jihadi ship sang about it. Looking for a fight by the sound of it and they got what was coming to them.he he he.
As Jonesey would have said “they dont like it up ‘em”…………oh and dont mention the rockets……or the Kurds or the Armenians.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
borker you are and always have been a one sided moron. Once upon a time the jews had packed their bags and were out of the middle east.
What happened? In every country they lived in they ended up persecuted and killed by racist jerks such as yourself. This culminated in the holocaust and pogroms in soviet russia.
The Zionist movement arose from the realization that the jewish people could not rely on any country of the world to live in peace unless they lived in their own country ruled by themselves. (Huh that sounds like the right to self determination??)
As to their boundaries being born of war, then look at every country in the world – virtually all of them were determined as a result of warfare and the victor determined the resulting boundaries. (Think all European/African/Asian/American countries)
If the arabs had accepted the UN plan of 1947 then there would have been 2 states arab and jewish co existing.
The arabs didn’t want this and attacked the jews. The jews fought back and won. They set the boundaries (and should have happened in 1967 as well if the UN hadn’t poked their nose in)
So piss off with your one eyed anti semite views and go do something useful like shaving your head and tattooing a swastika on your head so that all people can see you for the limp dick that you are.
.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Israel comes from the position that it knows it has no friends,so does not really give a shit about defending itself by any means.
Vote:I am constantly surprised by the idiots that chose to pick a scrap and coming off second best then complaining about Israels reaction.
If Israel disamed tomorrow they would be gone by lunchtime,anybody not realizing that knows fuck all.
Yon kipper in 1973 is well remembered.
Israel is in a continuous state of war,and will fight with all it has available.
June 6th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
This is fun!
I can just imagine Billy sitting there, steam coming out of his ears, bashing the shit out of his keyboard in an ever increasing rage.
Of course he really does not give a shit about the Palestinians, he could not care less, the real target of his rage is not even the Israel’s, it is the great satan, the supreme evil….capitialismim and the good old USA.
See, Billy and the rest of the pinko fuckwits (Locke, Minto and co) are using the Palestinians as a cause, they are using them in the same way they used black South Africans all those years ago, what they want to see is capitalism defeated and replaced with communism, and through that, see the demise of the USA.
In their eyes the biggest crime the Israel’s commit is being a capitalist democracy.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
As usual these threads on the problem with Israel are quite hilarious, or would be if the problem wasn’t so serious. One can only hope that with the younger American jews gaining control over the Zionist organisations there that some sense will prevail and the obsesive fear of persecution held by the Israeli will be overcome. The trouble is that that will be a slow process and the situation needs a humanitarian solution yesterday. Listening to the Israeli Prime Minister it is obvious that he is locked in to what happened in the past and is incapable of finding a humanitarian solution for the concentration camp that is the Gaza Strip.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
I think it more than likely that Israel will tell the UN to FRO.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
billyborker (7:08pm, 8:14pm etc etc) – you seem a little confused: your new favourite term “useful idiot” was Lenin’s phrase to describe Western liberals who supported Communism. It is hardly applicable to Big Bruv and others you are railing against here, and is probably more accurately applicable to you yourself.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Sadly I’m sure your are correct andretti. The solution depends on the United States of America rather than the UNO.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
And in effect putting them ideologically in the same company as Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Wonderful bedfellows.
And of course, Hulun the Wench probably has her greasy fingers all over this Palmer crap.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
“This is fun!”
Really?
You idiots mindlessly responding to the fuckwit troll and narcissist Borker need your heads read.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
cause redbaiter never responds to trolls..
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
can i ask again…
when will farrar clean this sewer up..?
and make people use their real names..?
surely the likes of hurf..and the other maggots..
..wouldn’t have the balls to stand behind/beside their ‘droppings’…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Speaking of the Yanks…
Does anybody know how the Kenyans golf handicap is progressing?
It seems he plays rather a lot of golf, oil spilling into the sea, wildlife perishing, peoples livelihoods disappearing yet the Kenyan still find plenty of time to play golf.
Can you imagine how the MSM would have treated Bush is he played as much golf as the Kenyan?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Hurf Durf (9:01pm) – can we please leave the Cottager’s Wife out of this?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
3-coil (732) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
billyborker (7:08pm, 8:14pm etc etc) – you seem a little confused: your new favourite term “useful idiot” was Lenin’s phrase to describe Western liberals who supported Communism.
One more useful idiot, parading his ignorance. Lenin said no such thing. It was a phrase invented by the Randians.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
“You idiots mindlessly responding to the fuckwit troll and narcissist Borker need your heads read.”
FFS!….are there not re runs of your hero Glenn Beck that you can be watching Comrade Redbaiter?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
I love the way JCUKNZ and others think that the Israelis are unrealistically paranoid.
So, but for the slavering multitudes on their borders preaching that Jews should all be slaughtered, the Iranians going hell for leather after nukes to nuke tel aviv, and “condemnation” from everyone should these evil Israelis not want thousands of “home made” rockets fired on their towns.
Yup totally unreasonable paranoia.
Poor bastards. Who’d be jewish. The only religion everyone is allowed to hate. and how dare those evil Joos not just lie down and let Hamas arm itself with heavy Iranian weaponary – oh yes, sorry, “humanitarian aid”
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Billyborker has contributed 1064 times. I’m really curious. Has anyone actually seen one where he attempted a rational, intelligent or even informative contribution which addressed the actual subject matter in hand, and wasn’t clouded by the sort of denigrating stupidity his apparent leanings seem to compel him to utter?
I’m really curious. Why waste one’s time attempting to contest such flatulent needs for manual gratification?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Wouldn’t you say NZ are patently anti-israel?
I just get that impression for some reason.
My own opinion, if a neighbouring country were lobbing missiles in Auckland, wellington and other cities, I’d probably want to defend myself.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
It’s the whole “support the underdog, no matter what” mentality. Being in a strategic backwater helps, too. Israel doesn’t have that luxury.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Oh Wreck, don’t be unreasonable. They are merely harmless homemade symbols of frustration at Israeli oppression and occupation, all 3,000 of them.
Funny how no-one notices that Israel has done pretty much everything asked of them – including exiting from Gaza and South Lebanon, but strangely the result wasn’t peaceful coexistance, rather it meant the missile launchers moved that much closer to Israel.
Now if Hamas were to renounce its charter – that charter, the one calling the for destruction of Israel, oh and to stop throwing Fatah opponents off buildings, then maybe there might be grounds for a chat. But at the moment I am happy with Hamas = genocidal terrorist theocracy.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
I can see the thesis title already: Persecution Complexes and their Treatment: A Comparison of Therapeutic Suggestion vs. Operant Conditioning via Kaytusha Rockets
Breaking news: First concentration camp in history to have it’s own offshore oil and gas fields.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
As I am happy with Israel = genocidal terrorist Zionistas.
All Jews out of Israel, now.
How many NZ passports have Palestinians stolen/forged/obtained under false premises?
Israel is a rogue state that must be brought to heel.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Hey Billy, when’s the Civil Union with Luc planned for?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
“Wouldn’t you say NZ are patently anti-israel?”
Nope, apart from those of us who are passionately interested in politics the rest of the country could not really give a shit.
Most of us grew up with war in the middle east, it was a bit like the IRA in the UK, after a while it becomes boring to them.
At the moment I suspect that the only things most Kiwis are interested in is keeping their jobs and feeding their families, possibly the only thing that will get them off their apathetic backsides is the amount of money they see stolen from their pay packet every week to fund the likes of Fuller and Ure.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
……said little Peter as he snuggled further into his warm, cosy blanket. The bed was a bit wet and cold but it would warm up, and anyway there had been a wonderful story – filled with exciting tales of moral outrage performed by Ban Ki and Kofi.
He shivered with excitement as his mummy smiled, tucked him in and whispered in his ear, Awwww……. that is so sweet Peter – and all the wet stuff you’re lying in means that they’ll be a pony here tomorrow..
He could hardly wait!
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
Hurf, you seem to have a fixation on poofters, are you a shirtlifter or a dung puncher?
[DPF: 20 demerits]
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Some of this ought to have occurred to the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, when he ordered the commando assault on the Gaza flotilla. Evidently not. Beneath that silvery, Harvard-educated veneer there lies an unprincipled thug addicted to the use of Israeli military might and impervious to world opinion.
Endlessly repeating the errors of history, Israel now engages in a savage repression of the Palestinian people and their right to a homeland of their own. The policy platform of Netanyahu’s Likud party makes no bones about it.
”The government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan River,” it reads. ”The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs.”
Now, what was that about a state wanting the destruction of another?
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
The plaster strip over the Gaza Strip that is the festering sore for the Israelis.. is far too small to cover the wound from bleeding Western liberals.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Do you like being a dick, tom?
If Israel’s actions were justified as they claim then there’s a possibility they will be vindicated.
I usually stay out of Middle East arguments, it’s very complex with difficult solutions at best. A few ranters this far removed are irrelevant.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Got this from an article written by someone living in Jerusalem. Nice to read the other side of the story.
1. WHEN PEACE ACTIVISTS SERVE TERRORISM
Much has been written and reported on the flotilla attempting to reach Gaza on Monday. It resulted in the death of 9 persons on board and the injuring of 7 Israeli soldiers. Criticism against Israel is now heard from all over the world, and there are demands for an independent investigation into the incident. Turkey, from where the flotilla was organized and from where hundreds of the participants came, has canceled military exercises with Israel, called their ambassador home for consultation, and there are rumors that trade agreements between the two countries will be canceled.
But most nations condemned Israel long before the facts had been established. For countries like Sweden, Norway, Russia, and France, facts do not seem to count as long as there is a possibility to criticize and condemn Israel. Sadly, the same is true for many Christians who, mistakenly believe they are serving as moral guardians and as a counter weight to the “blind-eyed Israel supporters”, join the band wagon.
It is easy to criticize, and much harder to defend Israel. But this is not because defending Israel demands any kind of moral compromise – On the contrary! People who criticize Israel before knowing the facts are obviously acting out of stupidity, but people who do so after knowing the facts seem to have lost their moral compass. Consider the following background to the flotilla incident.
Hamas’ Struggle Against Israel
Gaza is ruled by Hamas, an organization that is recognized by the US, the EU, and Israel among others, as a terrorist organization. During the years from 2001-2008, Hamas fired or supported the firing of 12,000 rockets, most of them against Israeli civilians. The war in Gaza a year and a half ago did not end with a peace agreement (it cannot as long as Hamas is ruling), and so Hamas is still intent on destroying the Jewish state.
Since the war, 164 rockets and 74 mortar shells have been fired from Gaza at Israeli targets, and in March of this year two IDF soldiers were killed by terrorists trying to enter Israel from Gaza. Contrary to international law, Hamas is holding an Israeli soldier captive, denying him the most basic rights such as a visit by the Red Cross.
Hamas has for years been smuggling weapons, and material used for building weapons and defense installations into Gaza – willingly financed and backed by Iran. Their stated goal is to prepare for the next war. Israel is obligated to protect its citizens and has therefore maintained a blockade on Gaza to prevent Hamas from rearming. The blockade concerns only products that can be used in warfare against Israel. Israel feels no obligation to provide Hamas with the means with which they will try to kill Israelis.
The Blockade does not include food, medicine, or clothes. Six days a week, trucks are passing into Gaza from Israel with fruit, vegetables, spices, cheese, bread, wheat, rice, milk powder, baby food, meat, fish, medicine, clothes, and cattle – to mention a few of the items. This is done partly in cooperation with humanitarian aid organizations and partly on Israel’s initiative. There is therefore no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and there is an organized way for aid organizations of bringing goods into the area. Except for construction material, the goods that were on the boats of the flotilla have all been shipped into Gaza by the Israelis already.
The Organizer of the Flotilla
Now to another question: Who were the people behind the flotilla to Gaza? The flotilla was organized by the Turkish Islamic organization IHH (Humanitarian Relief Fund). This is yet another organization which uses humanitarian work to cover up its support for terrorism. IHH has for years identified ideologically with the radical Moslem Brotherhood of whom Hamas is an offshoot. IHH is raising funds for Hamas and organizing demonstrations in support of the terror organization. The ship Mavi Marmara is owned by IHH.
The Struggle on Mavi Marmara
There are videos showing that prior to the Israeli take over of the ship Marmara, some of the participants were singing songs in Arabic about killing the Jews. A woman also said that martyrdom would be a “good thing.” This is in line with an interview on Hamas TV the day before in which Dr. Abd Al-Fatah Shayyeq Naaman stated: “The [Gaza] flotilla commander said yesterday: ‘We will not allow the Zionists to get near us and we will use resistance against them.’ How will they wage resistance? They will resist with their fingernails. They are people who seek Martyrdom for Allah, as much as they want to reach Gaza, but the first [Martyrdom] is more desirable.” “Resistance,” as is well known, is a Hamas’ code word for terrorism.
In spite of the fact that the organizers of the flotilla repeatedly stated they would not use violence if boarded by Israel, recordings made by the Israeli navy shows groups of 5-10 people throwing themselves over the soldiers rappelling down from the helicopter. The soldiers are being hit with iron batons, stabbed with knives, and in the end, fired upon with live ammunition. One badly beaten soldier is shown being thrown over board. There are Israeli soldiers hospitalized today with skull fractions, stabbing wounds in the stomach and bullet holes in the back.
The Israeli soldiers who arrived first on the boat were armed mainly with crowd dispersion weapons. They were not prepared for attempts of lynching. According to an Israeli television commentator, it took 40 minutes before the soldiers were given a green light to use live ammunition, and this was only after shots were fired at the soldiers and their lives were seriously threatened.
The Terrorists on Board
Following the incident, it turned out that nearly 50 of the participants at Marmara, were members of different terror organizations. Their overriding goal was to attack the IDF soldiers. A search of the boat revealed a cache of weapons including many knives, slingshots, rocks, smoke bombs, metal rods, improvised sharp metal objects, sticks and clubs, 5KG hammers, firebombs and gas masks.
The True Intention of the Flotilla
Taking into consideration the lynching attempts on the Israeli soldiers and given the fact that the equipment the flotilla brought had other ways to reach Gaza, it can safely be concluded that the flotilla’ supposed humanitarian character was of secondary importance. This view is reinforced by the fact that the organizers refused to bring a greeting and food to the captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit from his parents. The goal of this flotilla was to create something that could be presented as an Israeli provocation and unite the world in denouncing the Jewish state. It was an abuse of an alleged humanitarian crisis to create a PR stunt that would strengthen Hamas and weaken Israel.
The Term “Useful Idiots” Receives a New Application
There might have been those on board who naively believed they were on a human rights mission. Although most of these might have nothing but contempt for Israel, they had no intention of attacking or lynching the IDF soldiers. These are the “useful idiots” that Hamas has become an expert in abusing for its own perverted purposes. And this should come as no surprise since it is exactly the pattern that Hamas and other terror organizations have been following for years: They let their “heroic” terrorists hide behind civilians in order to claim immunity against counter attacks. But the willingness of peace and human rights activists to let themselves be used in this fashion is beyond belief. Offering themselves as shields for terrorists is a highly immoral behavior that in effect undermines the human rights they claim to represent.
Is Israel Criticism Accepted?
So is it not allowed to criticize Israel? It sure is! Blind support has no credibility and does no good for any party. There are instance when Israel makes mistakes. Nobody can or should deny this. However, the major problem concerning Israel is not blind support, but blind criticism. When Israel makes mistakes, that is exactly what they are: mistakes. For the Israel bashers, Israel is unable to do anything right, and everything it does, is described as a gruesome and planned strategy. For these people, Israel behaves arrogantly and tramples upon international law.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Israel knows better than anyone that all eyes are directed at what they do and don’t do. Therefore, as has become a pattern, also this time they consulted with experts on international law before acting. They followed the book in detail by contacting the ships before hand, and even offering them the option to bring their goods to Gaza via the Israeli port of Ashdod. Instead of endangering the lives of those aboard by shooting warning shots or in another way try to control the ship’s course from a distance, they boarded the ship by peaceful means thereby endangering their own soldiers. For 40 long minutes the soldiers fought for their lives before they were shot upon and decided to respond to the fire. It has been said that this was a massacre, and it has been called “Turkey’s 9/11.” Such claims empty the words of all meaning and are despicable attempts to vilify Israel.
For all those who criticize Israel, there is one test that they need to pass in order to avoid the stamp of being anti-Semitic: Use the same standard when judging other nations. There is no doubt that when Israel’s actions are measured against those of other nations, the high moral standards of the Israeli Army will be revealed. If Israel therefore should accept an investigation of the flotilla incident, revealing the true circumstances around it will only vindicate the Jewish State. But Israel’s problem is that, based on experience, they cannot expect a fair treatment from an independent investigation. As with the Goldstone Report, reaching the truth is not the goal – Finding a way to criticize Israel and undermine its right to exist, is.
The facts are there for all to see, but many prefer not to be confronted by them. Revelation of the facts will challenge the blind criticism that fits so well with their ideology.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
what a load of absolute fucken horse-shit…
4-5 bullets in corpses…fired from 45cm away..
..and some in the back of the head…
explain/spin that away…
..eh..?
murderous bastards…nothing less…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
What else do you think pistols are for? Sniping?
Get a life, Philip. Go chain yourself to one of these boats if you care so much.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
There’s truth and lies on both sides.. and you can’t build a bridge when each side burn their end.. so there is no end in sight.
As a well published book say’s… the world begins and ends there.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
“…As a well published book say’s..”
is that ‘the hitchikers’ guide to the galaxy’…?
..or ‘atlas shrugged’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
Your copy of the Caran Phil.
Vote:June 6th, 2010 at 11:34 pm
The United Nations proposal to have Geoffrey Palmer as committee head has Helen Clark written all over it.
Vote:Another entry on her CV and a step closer to becoming United Nations next Secretary General.
June 6th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Philu – the whole incident has parallels with the incident involving 2 British soldiers caught at the an IRA funeral in Milltown cemetery in Belfast. Those fellas were also armed with handguns and were surrounded by a hostile crowd. They chose not to shoot anyone. Here’s the result.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MILLTOWN_PRIEST_DC_1_copy.jpg
I don’t care about the politics, if I had a gun and was being beaten with bars or stabbed I know what I would be doing, even if I saved the last round for myself.
These young British soldiers didn’t shoot and finished up dying in the most horrific fashion at the hands of a frothing mob.
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzWSoFszn9U
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 5:42 am
The inestimable historian Victor Davis Hansen has just penned the most succinct summary of the hypocrisy of so much of the criticism of Israel:
“Yes, yes, I know — faulting Israel is hardly anti-Semitism. But note the obsessive focus on Israel, especially from the left. So take any issue: occupied land? Why do we not evoke Ossetia, Tibet, or Cyprus? Or for that matter Prussia?
Take a divided city? How about Nicosia?
Take disproportionate force? Try the leveling of Grozny?
Targeted killing? Our own Predators have killed more than Israeli air attacks.
The killing of Muslims? India and China trump Israel.
Wait — the issue is U.S. aid? OK, are we “shocked” that Egypt gets billions and harasses human rights activists, stifles democracy, and tortures its own?
No, the issue is blockading Gaza? So Turkish and European flotillas are off the Egyptian coast?
No, no, the problem is the detention of third parties in international waters? So President Obama has ended, as promised, rendition (remember the movie?)? Hardly.
Yes, the Arabs have hundreds of millions, Israel seven. Yes, they have oil, the Israelis none. Yes, libel a Jew and it’s cute, libel the prophet and go into hiding. And yes, Israel is a surrogate often for anti-Americanism. But all that said, it is still strange that so many Westerners focus such antipathy and attention on Israel over precisely the topics that they otherwise ignore in other countries.
It is not anti-Semitic to discuss divided cities, occupations, the use of force, blockades, refugees, etc. It is, when all these topics mysteriously appear only in reference to Israel so as to suggest it is somehow singular in its transgressions. I somehow know who Rachel Corrie is, but not any of the names of tens of thousands of Kurds in Turkey, or Chechens in Grozny, or Tibetans in China, or Egyptians in Cairo. Why? I know the rough square mileage of “occupied” Palestine, but not the acreage of Turkish-controlled Cyprus.”
He cleverly explores the crucial role that Turkey’s lurch towards Islamic fundamentalism is playing in this specific Gaza blockade situation.
http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/should-jews-apologize-to-turkey/
I think that Palmer will be a reliable parrot of the left’s prevailing view on Israel. If he is true to the lawyer in him he may surprise with a factual analysis so well covered in the article in GJ’s post (which btw GJ you need to show the attributing link).
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Kiwi in America, great article.
Anti-Israel, anti-american, anti-capitalism, warmists, environmentalism, pacifists are mainly the same people. Example, if you hear someone who is anti-american, then that person is definitely anti-capitalism. Leftists don’t like the dominance of western culture (wealth & military power) and at the same time, they (themselves) are parasitically surviving off the fruits & benefits of western culture & capitalism. These people feel guilty for being born in a superior culture.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Aside from the to-and-fro of ill-informed public debate on this issue, should we not wonder whether the UN has any validity to hold an investigation into this mess? After all, it was sooooooooooo highly effective in stopping the Rwandan genocide before it started…
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Well here’s my take on Turkey from several days ago
The UN is utterly irrelevant to what is happening here with Turkey, Israel and Iran.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 9:42 am
“I think this is a very good thing (blah blah)… would be very useful.”
DPF: you ARE taking the piss, aren’t you? Please tell us you are joking. Please….
Or is somebody paying you to write this stuff?
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Hey, full of shit, wrong again.
I am anti-American foreign policy, when that leads to tragedies like Afghanistan, but I am not anti American.
I am not anti-capitalist, but I do believe that we need laws to reign in its excesses.
I do not subscribe to AGW.
I do not feel guilty for being born in a superior culture, and this is why I want to eliminate the free influx of chinese, samoans and other such lower peoples.
And YES, I AM A LEFTIE!
Fuck, isn’t it hard to put people ina box, so how about actually mounting an agrument?
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 10:01 am
big bruv (6543) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
“Wouldn’t you say NZ are patently anti-israel?”
Judging by the local ODT blog I’d say you are correctin saying the Kiwi is not interested or bothered judging from the diet of rugby and stadium that dominates the column.
Awhile back somebody asked why Hamas, or at least some in Gaza , keep on firing rockets at Israel. Becuase Israel thumps back so hard? It is the only way to keep their plight in the view of the world. If Israel, and other western countries, accepted Hamas as the legitimate and democratically elected government and treated it with respect the way they treat other nationa there would be no need for rockets to be fired into Israel. The Israeli have amply proved that it is a form of masochism by Gaza. The sensible and powerful person knows how to restrain themselves. Not only are the current leaders of Israel paranoic but also rather stupid in their use of lethal force.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 10:09 am
Phil U said…
this is why I want to eliminate the free influx of chinese, samoans and other such lower peoples.
So, you want to eliminate parasites, useless & lower people such as yourself too? Good job, the sooner parasites such as yourself are eliminated and shipped off to Somalia, the better for this country.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Eh Billy … shouldn’t the line “I do not subscribe to AGW” have continued ” but I like to hedge my bets” ?
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 10:16 am
Falafulu
I’m on a non-RIP’d Firefox and saw the comment. It’s from Billy Borker not Philu.
I ripped Billy a long time ago as it’s clear that he is either trolling (because naturally right-wingers would line up beside a comment like his) – or Alf Garnett irrational.
I’ve no doubt he’s of the Left though.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Well I think billy has told us everything we need to know about the left. They have no grasp of history whatsoever and they’re rabid anti-Semities.
DPF why are you giving unfettered air time to someone chanting fuck the Jews? Would you be so tolerant of someone saying fuck the arabs? If you bend over backwards to be an applogist any furthters you’lll meet you self on the other side.
Racist scum DPF, thats all billy and his kind are. they love the terrorists and hate Jews, thats all. Where do you fit into that picture David?
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 10:43 am
I retract my comment above && apologize to Phil U.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Murray, i will concede that “fuck the jews” was wrong, as there are many fine jews. I should have written “fuck the Israeli Zionistas”.
ANd I have a good grasp on history, which is why I see paralleles between Warsaw 1943 and Gaza 2010, the only difference is there are 5 times more people being starved in Gaza than there were in Warsaw.
And I know why the Rachel Corrie is so named. Do you? Good jewish name that, Rachel.
But that’s oK murray, you go right on being a useful idiot in the service of Zionism.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 11:16 am
I believe the Islamic notion of “ummah” ,brotherhood is playing a role here too.The Ottoman Turks oppressed their fellow Muslims in their empire.Modern Turkey became ostensibly secular and could therefor have an alliance with the hated Jew.But now we have an Islamist party ruling an increasingly Islamic Turkey so Islamic ideals such as the ummah come increasingly into play.
Islamism is a huge danger to the middle east and to Europe. It must be resisted,but to do that it must be recognised.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 11:17 am
ANd I have a good grasp on history, which is why I see paralleles between Warsaw 1943 and Gaza 2010, the only difference is there are 5 times more people being starved in Gaza than there were in Warsaw.
Really? Good grasp on history? Yet you have missed one of the key point.
During both times, the Jewish peoples enemy had a stated objection to wipe them off the face of the earth. This time though, the Jew is able to defend himself.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
You know billy your concern for Rachel Corrie would have more weight if you would tell us that you marched in the streets protesting about the death of another Rachel – that of Rachel Thale. Rachel was a 16 year old British girl born and raised in London who was killed when a Palestinian suicide bomber went into a pizzeria in a crowded Tel Aviv mall on 16 February 2002. No – the American Rachel, who incidently CHOSE matryrdom by deliberately lying down in the path of the bulldozer in Gaza is the RIGHT victim for the anti-Israeli left as opposed to the British Rachel (who was INNOCENTLY killed) and is the entirely the WRONG victim because her killers were waging an ideologically approved campaign – against the evil Zionist state.
As Mark Steyn so accurately puts it” Rachel Corrie’s diaries have been published in book form, turned into a hit London play at the Royal Court, and her name has been cited in The Guardian alone hundreds of times (“Remembering Rachel”, “Rachel’s War”, “Rachel Corrie: A True Martyr”, “The Lonesome Death Of Rachel Corrie”, “Rachel’s Words Are A Spur To Action”, etc).
By contrast, Rachel Thaler was a British subject. Yet not a single British journalist has ever mentioned her, profiled her, interviewed her parents or other British relatives, or published her diary in a Fleet Street newspaper – except for a single solitary mention by the great (Jewish) comedienne Maureen Lipman noting that nobody ever mentioned her, or the other victims of Palestinian terrorism.”
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjJlOGY3OGY3YWQ4MjYyMjVhNjYwODIzM2YwNWU5N2E=
Did you march against the Russian invasion of Ossetia or their brutal treatment of Chechyan (Muslim) rebels in Grozny? If not why not? What the Russians have done to those who oppose them makes anything Israel has done on her worst day pale into insignificance.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/the-hijacking-of-the-truth-film-evidence-destroyed/
“… From the moment the helicopters arrived, the sequence of events becomes confused.
The dizzying number of claims and counter-claims serves only to present an incomplete account of a military operation that went badly, badly wrong.
More than 1.7 million viewers have pored over the edited YouTube footage posted by the Israeli navy since Wednesday.
In the dramatic clip, commandos rappel down on to the deck from a helicopter, where they are met by angry activists armed with iron bars and sticks.
This is a critical point, for Israel has rallied domestic opinion on the crucial claim that its soldiers dropped into a meticulously planned riot for which they were completely unprepared.
Panicked, they acted in self-defence after they landed, shooting only those who threatened them.
The video is problematic, though.
The images of angry protesters are striking, but they lack context.
What happened before?
What happened next?
Had the soldiers started shooting when they descended to the deck?
The only account offered by the Israelis of what happened next is left to Staff Sergeant S, a commando who claims he shot six of the protesters.
The last of 15 to arrive on the deck, he said he saw that two of his colleagues had gunshot wounds.
Pushing others into a protective cordon around the injured soldiers, he shot at the protesters to force them to fall back.
It’s a neat account, but several eyewitness accounts tell a very different story.
Mr Elshayyal, a reporter for the Arab channel al-Jazeera, was standing to one side of the ship and had a view of the front and back of the vessel when the fighting started.
By his account, soldiers fired down on the protesters from the helicopters before an Israeli soldier had even set foot on the ship.
A man next to him was shot through the top of his head, dying instantly.
“What I saw were shots being fired from the helicopter above and moments later from below – from the ships,” Mr Elshayyal said.
“As far as I am concerned … it’s a lie to say they only started shooting on deck.”
At least two other eyewitnesses saw soldiers firing from above the ships before they landed on the Marmara’s deck.
It is possible that this is what prompted the fierce resistance to the soldiers when they dropped down.
Several passengers recount how organisers urged their peers to stop hitting the soldiers …
…aware of how it would harm their claim to be peaceful protesters.
Others on the ship claim they raised a white flag, but say that it was ignored.
They also used a loudspeaker to reiterate their message of surrender and requested that the injured be taken off the ship to get medical assistance.
Again, they were ignored.
At some point early on, the activists dragged three, possibly four, injured soldiers to a lower deck, either to keep as hostages or for their own safety.
It was then, several passengers say, that the situation quickly deteriorated.
Israel has insisted that the protesters took two of the soldiers’ pistols and used them …
… but others claim the pistols were taken away to prove that Israel planned to use live rounds.
Below, the protesters rummaged through captured soldiers’ belongings and claimed to unearth a document that they allege is a list of people Israel intended to assassinate.
The booklet, written in Hebrew and in English, contained some photographs of passengers on the Marmara …
… including the leader of IHH, the Turkish charity that provided two of the ships, an 88-year-old priest …
… and Ra’ad Salah, head of the Northern Branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, Mr Elshayyal said.
A military spokesman, Lt Col Avital Leibowitz, insisted soldiers acted in self-defence and that she “was not aware” of any list.
But one thing is fast becoming clear – many of the dead were shot multiple times at point-blank range.
One was a journalist taking photographs.
“A man was shot … between the eyebrows, which indicates that it was not an attack that took place from self-defence,” Hassan Ghani, a passenger, said in an account posted on YouTube.
“The soldier had time to set up the shot.” Mattias Gardell, a Swedish activist, told the TT news bureau: …
…”The Israelis committed premeditated murder … Two people were killed by shots in the forehead…
… one was shot in the back of the head … and one in the chest…”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Phil – are you attempting to claim that this one sided, heavily biased report by a well known Palestinian supporter (Catrina Stewart) is in any way accurate?
Are you suggesting that in this day and age of modern media that amongst 550 activists, not one of them managed to capture some damning footage on their cellphone or camera that could have been hidden from the Israelis? That the Israelis are so efficient at searching a ship they could recover every single memory card and cellphone and completely obliterate all evidence apart from what they took themselves????/ Riiiggggggggghhhtttt.
I don’t have a leaning either way in this, because of my upbringing (Belfast until 1985) I understand how complex issues like this can be so I try to assemble all available information before forming any opinion (if any). This piece of “journalism” is utter garbage, full of conjecture and “what ifs”. It offers nothing to the discussion.
Similar crap was written for the benefit of Irish Americans who saw the conflict in NI in equally black and white terms as this issue. Consequently Americans poured millions of dollars into the IRA coffers dragging the conflict out for years and causing the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of people.
Vote:While in Texas in the late 80s I had a redneck tell me (because I told him I was Protestant) that I should get the hell out of NI and go back to where I came from. He wasn’t particularly impressed when I pointed out my family could trace our heritage back prior to the Pilgrim Fathers and maybe he should consider moving himself.
June 7th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
that you supported the british occupation/suppression of ireland..
..and also support the horrors being committed on the palestinian people..
..does kinda go together..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Strange reading some of the reports that the party predicted to not agree to the UN investigation is not Israel, but Turkey.
Speculation is growing that the Turkish PM does not want his links with IHH confirmed through any official findings.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
PhilU how about Western media censoring the clip of the Navy commander requesting over radio multiple times for the boats to divert to the Israeli port.
Why didn’t the Western media play the replies from the boats including “Go back to Auschwitz” and……………. ” don’t forget 9/ 11 guys “.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
BillBorker you absolute leftist pig.
There can be no comparison made between the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza.
Have you not read the paper today including interviews with Gaza shop keepers selling Cadbury chocolates and HD TV’s. Even Hamas spokesman agreed there is no humanitarian crisis, but just a slight decrease in living standards.
The Warsaw ghetto was a very small city block with more than 100,000 Jews cramped into with no food at all, heavy disease and random evacuation to concentration camps. There was no smugglers tunnels it was absolute hell.
You are a fuckin absolute troll who should be executed for even trying to make a comparison. Fuck you.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Southern Raider (1260) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
BillBorker you absolute leftist pig.
There can be no comparison made between the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza.
Says who? You? Of course a comparison can be made, and I made it, as have quite a few others.
Have you not read the paper today including interviews with Gaza shop keepers selling Cadbury chocolates and HD TV’s.
There is a difference between stocking and selling. Did you not read the part about no customers?
The Warsaw ghetto was a very small city block with more than 100,000 Jews cramped into with no food at all, heavy disease and random evacuation to concentration camps. There was no smugglers tunnels it was absolute hell.
So the jews weren’t as resourceful as the Palestionisn? So what?
You are a fuckin absolute troll who should be executed for even trying to make a comparison.
Typical resposne of the right wing when challenged – violence. They know no other way.
So, as the poet said, go fuck your mother in law.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
You fuckin absolute low life.
Have you been to the Warsaw ghetto?
Have you talked to any Jews that were in death camps?
Have you been to Yad Vashem and seen the pictures of the ghetto and listened to the stories of those there?
No so stop being such a cunt and get back down your hole.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
To “Falafulu Fisi”,
Vote:I totally disagree that “if you hear someone who is anti-american, then that person is definitely anti-capitalism”.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of a western culture and the earnings generated by a capitalist society…while HATING the holier-than-thou, we-are-the-greatest, World Police, globally-ignorant, socially-arrogant, loud, obese, checkered-pants-and-hornrimmed-glasses generalisation of a white middleclass CNN-world-view-believing American (did I cover off everything?).
Show meeeeeeeeeeee da money…anyday!
June 7th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Southern Raider (1261) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
You fuckin absolute low life.
Your opinion, not that of my friends and famly.
Have you been to the Warsaw ghetto?
No, I saw enough Jews in Caulfield and St Kilda as I was growing up.
Have you talked to any Jews that were in death camps?
No,they’re dead, aren’t they? And if not, what could they tell me that I don’t already know?
Have you been to Yad Vashem and seen the pictures of the ghetto and listened to the stories of those there?
Why bother? It is self seving Zionista propaganda perpetuating the myth that only Jews died in death camps, that only Jews were victims in WW2, that only Jews feel pain.
No so stop being such a cunt and get back down your hole.
Why do you think cunt is a derogatory term? I love cunts, so nice, warm and comforting. I hole I am always happy to get down in.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/25/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html
missed these did you Billy?
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
billyborker (1075) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
As you didn’t get it from the videos on the web, I’ll help.
Here I am being stabbed and clubbed and so is my mate who’s had his gun taken off of him.
I get my gun out and aim it the assailant turns (to run or take a swing) so I pop him back of the head bam, then turn to the one (s) who are trying to do my mate and bam, bam, both of them down also in the back of the head as they were facing away from me whilst bludgeoning my mate.
In the dark not having night vision 9as my goggles were knocked off by the 2nd club hit) Rounds are going off at deck level amongst all the hullaboo and shouting allu ackbar and they don’t sound like our guns. I turn towards someone firing and they turn to run to cover and bam I do him in the back of the head.
As per my training in close quarter combat against multiple assailants terrorists with (edged weapons or projectile weapons)
I shoot those I downed again in the head as I clear the area and enlarge the perimeter or move towards the gunfire. (procedures used by SAS and other special ops worldwide).
how hard is this Billy or don’t you want to know.
You do understand Israeli terrorist, doctrine don’t you?
Vote:1. try and save as many of the hostages as possible but kill all the terrorists.
2. stay alive
3. keep your team mates alive.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Southern Raider 2:02 pm,
Ignore Borker (aka LeftRightOut, MyNameIsJack), he’s just an hate mongering anti-Semite who has no interest in the facts, and his putrescence is obvious to all who bother to read his twisted diatribes.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
kowtow (291) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 11:16 am
and to us Kowtow because of the influence on foreign policies by dhimmi acting governments and by the OIC’s work at the UN and it’s NGO’s.
Vote:NZ is at risk as some time in the future and is being influenced right now.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
MikeNZ (2037) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
billyborker (1075) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
As you didn’t get it from the videos on the web, I’ll help.
Here I am being stabbed and clubbed
Stop right there. You’re only being stabbed and clubbed because you have attacked an unarmed merchant vessel and put its passengers and crew in fear of their lives.
You seem to forget – the Israelis were the agressors, any stabbing and clubbing was brought upon themselves by their own actions.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
MikeNZ 2:44 pm,
It’s a shame, Mike, that that account will never make the 6 o’clock news here, and nor are we likely to see it appear on the BBC or any of the other socialist MSM ‘news’ services.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
tom hunter (889) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
Good point but then you know the UN likes excuses to run up tabs on our bills, good fresteraunts etc etc.
Vote:Can’t do that if they just copy reports and change dates headlines etc
So Sir Geoff is needed for the expense bill at least.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
# jcuknz (441) Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Absolutely right.
When the OBAMA tells the UN and all it’s members to recognise Israel’s right to exist and if they don’t then they should leave the UN and lose access to the gravy train.
Then all member states must desist from aiding anyone who attacks her and if they won’t then they should leave or risk being attacked as an accessory.
Then Israel can start “thinking” that the UN and USA are any way towards fair.
Vote:Until then countries should STFU
June 7th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
tom hunter (889) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 9:39 am
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the-problem-with-playing-defense-15459
Good points here.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Billy billy billy
1. terrorist state lobbing rockets, kidnapping etc etc
2. Military action
3. legal blockade
4. stopping vessels in international waters agai9nst said blockade allowable in international law
5. boarding troops used paintball guns as primary weapons in boarding.
6. attacked by edged and projectile weapons as well as swarming close qtr tactics with clubs.
7. some boarders stabbed and shot as well as thrown over board.
wakey wakey, this is the real world
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Philbee (4) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 9:28 am
side from the to-and-fro of ill-informed public debate on this issue, should we not wonder whether the UN has any validity to hold an investigation into this mess? After all, it was sooooooooooo highly effective in stopping the Rwandan genocide before it started
I think they proved themselves with the goldstone report.
Vote:if they had any integrity they would apologise and shut up.
don’t hold your breath.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
So billy I suppose the fact that 50 hard core trained terrorists joined the passengers on the Marmara AFTER the 450 peace activists embarked in Turkey and that it was this group that bragged on al Jarzeera TV BEFORE leaving about the Jewish ass they were about to kick and it was this group that the video footage shows being well prepared to initiate a violent confrontation is meaningless?
Funny how the regular peace activists on the other 5 vessels in the convoy and the peace activists on the ‘Rachel Corrie’ all were true to their stated peaceful intentions and passively resisted the Israeli’s blockade requests but acquieced WITHOUT violence when the IDF enforced the blockade.
So the only exception to these non-violent outcomes was this group of thugs who were trained specifically to meet any commandos with knives, pipes, chains and stun grenades. Even the remaining 450 passengers on board have been seen on film trying to persuade this aggressive group to not provoke the Israeli commandos and a few even shielded the fallen and injured soldiers from attempts by this hard core group of 50 to finish them off.
Were you outraged when Muslims were slaughtered in Grozny? If you were there’s scant evidence of it in your posts on kiwiblog – I guess its OK for Russians to perpetrate atrocities and count on the left’s silence but when the Joos try to defend their homeland from needless rocket attack by searching ships heading for Gaza, well that’s beyond the pale and worthy of the foul contempt that you express so coarsely on this blog. You reveal yourself as nothing more than a contemptuous anti-Semite.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
phil – your retort leaves me speechless.
At what point did I say I supported anything that you suggest? On the post you submitted I said it was “journalistic” crap based on nothing but conjecture/fantasy. No evidence whatsoever. On the Ireland thing, what part didn’t you understand there?
You say I supported the suppression/occupation in Ireland????? I was fucking born there! I lived in the fucking ghettos! They weren’t the sole preserve of the Catholic population!! A common misconception.
I had three close relatives shot dead in random attacks. Two by the IRA, one by a piece of UDA scum.. My mother was traumatised from the age of 30 till she died 4 years ago at the age of 69 after being caught up in the Oxford Street bus station bomb attack by the IRA, part of Bloody Friday. She saw people dismembered by the explosion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Friday_%281972%29
I had a gun put in my mouth and was threatened with kneecapping because I had a Catholic girlfriend. I got beaten up by my catholic friend’s older brother when I was 13 because I was protestant. I have seen the effects of bigotry and hatred. It is tragic, but what I hate almost as much is journalists who lie and/or twist the truth to support their pet “cause” or to sell some column inches.
I was talking about poor journalism and lies and the grief they can cause and you twist that somehow to say that I support terror and subjugation of people? You really are pathetic sometimes. No wonder people get fucked off with you.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
There’s a funny photo on the front page of the ODT today.
It shows some musslmen praying in the Octagon while their co jihadis from the socialist international are lying down pretending to be victims of the Jews.
The funny thing is the scarved muslim women in the background looking on…… they cant pray with the men you see.And I thought socialists were about equality . Strange bed fellows indeed.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
yes very strange bedfellows, the Left and the Islamists
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
MikeNZ 4:47 pm,
Bedfellows of convenience, I might add – and only until the Islamists have no further use of the socialists. Then they, too, will have their heads on the block.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
“You really are pathetic sometimes. No wonder people get fucked off with you.”
I’ll drink to that kaya.
Vote:Still you must remember that phil is just a little twat who has never had a life other than his drug induced haze and his keyboard fantasy world.
Pity is better than fucked off and taking the piss is best.
He loves it really why else is he here?
June 7th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
For BillyBorker. Watch to see why the blockade should be lifted.
Vote:
June 7th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
I’ve got a question for PhilU. Israel leads the world on marijuana research, specifically for medical use, without the bias that the US positions against any research that may show it in a positive light.
Would you like to see sanctions against Israel to prevent this research being used throughout the world?
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/the-messy-state-of-medical-marijuana-in-israel/
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/36/11078?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Dr.+Irit+Akirav+&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
http://israel21c.org/health/marijuana-could-alleviate-symptoms-of-ptsd
Thanks for that Tim
Vote:interesting.
June 7th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Just reading the latest NZ Management Mag.
NZ has dropped two places to 20th for most competitive economy. Israel has leap 7 from 24th to 17th.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Executive summary:
The “aid workers” beat the soldiers with metal poles, the soliders shot “aid workers”…
Please have my 100K cheque in the post ASAP…
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
“….Would you like to see sanctions against Israel to prevent this research being used throughout the world?…”
no..why on earth should i…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
I just wondered … many anti-Israel commentators call for a boycott of Israeli goods, scholars, etc… Also I wonder if a Palestinian government would allow such research…? …just a thought …
… …
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Billy Borker said at 8.02pm yesterday “Defending your homeland is not terror, but the Zionista invasion of Palestine was most certainly terror.Israel, born in terror, sustained by terror.Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics”
and then at 8.14pm – ” I have no problem with the jews, as long as they pack their bags and get the fuck out of the middle east”
Can I just clarify Billy- are you calling for the forced expulsion of the Jews out of Israel and the Middle east? If so what is your rationale?
Vote:Lastly – are you really looking for a final solution to the problem of the Jews?
June 7th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Is it worth pointing out that the subject of this piece was “Palmer to head Gaza enquiry?”
From the irrelevant evidence adduced- and pathetic posturing displayed by argumentative
Vote:contributors in the last 50-odd items – no one would ever have guessed.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
I thought what needed to be said, got said, before your first post at 8pm.
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
Indeed. Borker succeeded. Truly a troll worthy of the label – and everybody has gone for him.
Well done BillyBorker
Clap………clap……….clap
Vote:June 7th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
kiwi in america (889) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
So billy I suppose the fact that 50 hard core trained terrorists joined the passengers on the Marmara
*********************************************************************************************************
Has anyone told KIA that Israel has now retracted that claim?
Or are the hasbara cannon fodder too far down the food chain to be kept up to date … after all, tell a lie often enough…
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 4:24 am
From the IDF’s website on 6th of June
http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/Press+Releases/10/06/0601.htm
“The following passengers on board the Mavi Marmara are known to be involved in terrorist activity. The Mavi Marmara attempted to break the maritime closure on the Gaza Strip on Monday, May 31st 2010, and was boarded by Israel Navy forces.
Fatimah Mahmadi (born 1979), is a United States resident of Iranian origin, and an active member of the organization “Viva Palestine”, she attempted to smuggle forbidden electronic components into the Gaza Strip.
Ken O’Keefe (Born 1969), an American and British citizen, is a radical anti-Israel activist and operative of the Hamas Terror organization. He attempted to enter the Gaza Strip in order to form and train a commando unit for the Palestinian terror organization.
Hassan Iynasi (born 1982), a Turkish citizen and activist in a Turkish charity organization, is known of providing financial support to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terror organization.
Hussein Urosh, a Turkish citizen and activist in the IHH organization, was on his way to the Gaza Strip in order to assist in smuggling Al-Qaeda operatives via Turkey into the Strip.
Ahmad Umimon (born 1959), is a French citizen of Moroccan origin, and an operative of the Hamas Terrorist organization”
No sign of any retraction on the IDF’s website or in any Israeli media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSAxAj2KIdU
Vote:Here’s a flotilla ‘peace’ activist expressing his desire in English to be a martyr.
June 8th, 2010 at 7:27 am
Helen Thomas has resigned as a White House reporter, effective immediately.
Maybe she can get a job broadcasting for Viva Palestine. She’s fully qualified, the only competition she has is Luc, and he’s even uglier!
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 8:42 am
I’ve just posted this item on “General Debate” – but as this thread is still active, I’ll post it again here as well. It probably won’t serve to convince those whose beliefs are so solidly set on opposing lines, but who knows – facts should always be accepted as facts.
“At last, something to uphold that the Israelis were indeed justified in boarding the Mavi Marmara flotilla.
Look at what’s been found hidden in the “humanitarian aid” containers.
(2 minute video clip follows 20 sec commercial in Hebrew)
http://www…flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3423928
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Munted link there Positan
Tom – yes even the White House had to admit her “go home to Poland/Germany” comments were over the top.
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Yah – after four days of waiting to see which way the wind was going to blow.
Actually they should have just left her there at the front row where she could have bravely continued to ask the questions no one else will ask and speak truth to power. She could have served as a living, breathing example of what’s going on now in the West.
Let’s face it, her attitude towards that particular ‘solution’ for Jews is increasingly common – as can be seen from Luc’s regular comments here – it’s just that most journalists can’t admit it (perhaps even to themselves) and she had to grow dotty in her old age and be caught in front of something that did not resemble a typical TV camera before she slipped up and revealed what she’s undoubtedly thought all these decades.
I loved Jim Treachers comment on this:
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Dear Positan:
Thanx for the flix link to “the smoking gun”: it was sure to turn up, sooner or later. Of course there will be those who’ll say the Israelis planted that…if so, it’s a pretty elaborate hoax. And those conspiracy theorists will never accept any investigation carried out by IDF either.
Vote:But there’s now so much video evidence and researched articles over this past week to support IDF’s claims that the flotilla was an innocent pawn in a terrorist chess game. You win some, you lose some: they’ll always try to get munitions into Gaza, so Israel will always try to stop them.
Rest assured there’ll be more of this…
June 8th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Positan – guess I’m not convinced. The rather amateur blockade runners must have known that the IDF would intercept the shipment. Why load it with self-incriminating evidence? We’ll see I guess.
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
that video is from 2009…
doh…!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
how about that philbee..?
colour him stoopid..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Get off your ass phool.
Stop watching videos and start looking for a job.
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
get back on the laz-y-boy…!..
..that bum-crease calls you…
..john old-man…
(have you taken yr pills yet…?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
No way for the CEO of a News Aggregator to address his customers magpie.
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Had the phone call from WINZ yet Phool?
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
you’re a customer..?
i take it all back..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
for sa while there..i had a policy of just ignoring the morons…
..and just arguing the case/w.h.y…
i think i will return to that regime…
..as of now…
..(i do however retain the right to ‘laugh at’…and lampoon…
..but i will go vitriol-free..for a while…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Just as well magpie I was going to get a UN referee to measure our respective bum crease signatures knowing full well that mine could never match the immense one that you have developed by spending the last 30 years on your arse.
Here comes Paula….eh?
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
i will attempt to emulate shaw…
..and ‘think very carefully about what i want to say..
..and then say it with the utmost levity.’..
(i have a yoga-arse….eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
Part of me wonders what’s to investigate, there’s enough video evidence to show the IDF being attacked when they attempted a non-violent boarding of the ship. Then I realise Palmer is part of the troughing elite, and the UN is the trough of troughs. No doubt he’ll get a cushy posting there when he’s extracted all he can from NZ.
Vote:Let’s hope the UN is thoroughly discredited when a full on war breaks out in the middle east.
June 8th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
Israel need look no farther than UNSC Res 1701, which ended Lebanon War II. That resolution was to put a stop to the rearming of Hezbollah. It failed miserably. Why should better results be expected in Gaza?
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
The Damour Massacre occurred on Jan. 20, 1976 as part of a series of events during the Lebanese Civil War, in which Palestinians joined the Muslim forces, in the context of the Christian-Muslim conflict. Subsequently, Beirut was divided along the infamous Green Line, with Christian enclaves to the east and Muslims to the west.
At Damour, PLO guerrillas locked in the women and children before lighting the church on fire. The attackers destroyed the buildings in the seaside village systematically and then took revenge on the remaining Christian inhabitants. The Christian cemetery was destroyed, coffins dug up, the dead robbed, vaults opened, and bodies and skeletons thrown across the graveyard. The church was burnt and an outside wall was covered with a mural of Fatah guerrillas holding AK47 rifles. A portrait of Yasser Arafat was placed at one end.
Twenty Phalangist militiamen were executed and then civilians were lined up against a wall and sprayed with machinegun fire. None of the remaining inhabitants survived. Estimate of the civilian dead is 584.
Vote:June 8th, 2010 at 11:44 pm
kiwi in america: some superb posts, thanks.
Here’s another reason why a Palmer inquiry would never be credible: http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/leftist-un-appoints-leftist-pm-to-absolve-club-wielding-leftist-peace-activists/
Vote: