Palmer to head Gaza inquiry?

June 6th, 2010 at 5:02 pm by David Farrar

Haaretz reports:

United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has conveyed a proposal to to set up an international commission of inquiry into the raid on the Gaza-bound aid flotilla a week ago.

The head of the committee would be former New Zealand prime minister , an expert on maritime law. Committee members would include representatives from the United States, Turkey and Israel.

Senior officials at the Foreign Ministry said Israel should consider the idea favorably.
I think this is a very good thing. It would reinforce NZ’s role as a honest broker who doesn’t take sides, and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.
With so many allegations on both side, an independent inquiry which establishes what happened, and what was legal, would be very useful.
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153 Responses to “Palmer to head Gaza inquiry?”

  1. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    If Palmer takes the job, let’s hope he makes the inquiry broad enough to cover the Hamas-rort aspect of the Gaza aid.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,698766,00.html

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  2. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Israeli media report Sir Geoffrey has been named by UN chief Ban Ki-moon as a possible member of a panel to look into the raid.

    Would this be the same Geoffrey Palmer who was happy to consider alleged rape a ‘guilty until proven innocent’ offence?

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  3. BlairM (2,341 comments) says:

    Yes! Let’s exile the bastard! Maybe he will leave our booze alone.

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  4. Captain Neurotic (203 comments) says:

    Why oh why oh why…

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  5. Sideoiler (74 comments) says:

    Why is it all of a sudden UN business?
    Israel surely doesn’t need the UN’s permission to conduct its own affairs.

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  6. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    This is the doodery fool who saddled us with a Bill of Rights,

    Also with The Principals of the Treaty of Waitangi which has done nothing but cause heart ache and hardship for all NZers and can’t even orgainize how we can have a beer in New Zealand.

    The UN is a sad sad joke, we should not be even remotely proud as a country to be involved with the clowns.

    Israel will be really worried now Big Geoff is riding into town …………… FFS

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  7. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    What a laugh. Even a Palmer headed inquiry would find Israel guilty. There will be acknowlegement that there was provocation (knives, iron bars, molotov cocktails, Islamic jihadi chants and shots from firearms taken from Israeli soldiers taken hostage by the ‘peace protesters’) but the end result will be a report that says Israel acted with disproportionate force.

    Israel is hatedanyway so next time they should just sink the bastards and get it over with.

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  8. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Brian Smaller is on to it. The inquiry could be headed by a blind, mute goat and the outcome would be yet another condemnation of Israel.

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  9. 3-coil (1,220 comments) says:

    Failed NZ Labour Prime Minister to lead Gaza inquiry???

    Please don’t let the fool take his trumpet with him (he fancies himself as a bit of a horn man) – the spectacle of him blowing and blowing till the walls come down would be just too embarrassing for all the other blameless NZers back here in Godzone.

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  10. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    With so many allegations on both side, an independent inquiry which establishes what happened, and what was legal, would be very useful.

    David, with respect, do you really consider the UN independent in any matter concerning Israel? Asking Palmer to head an inquiry is merely applying lipstick to the pig.

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  11. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    I agree, it will be a whitewash from a partial witness, the UN.
    Utter Bullshit.

    Israel is a sovereign Nation who doesn’t need any one’s permission to protect her citizens.
    NZ should be first in the line to say Turkey should back off as should all other countries, the blockade is there for a reason.

    When Shalit Gilad is freed, the rockets and tunneling for attacks and kidnapping stops and Israel’s right to exist is recognised, then and only then should the blockade be lifted.

    And where is this we are an honest broker rubbish from?
    We signed an FTA with China and now Russia, two of the biggest Polluters and Human rights abusers in the world.

    Crap, where were we over Zimbabwe, Sudan, Burma, China, Cuba, Indonesia & Saudi Arabia, have we ever asked for their voting rights to be denied for their human rights abuses.
    If we had then I might agree that we were an honest broker but we have never.

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  12. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,903 comments) says:

    krazykiwi 5.39, it will be, by the looks of it.

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  13. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Jack
    I wonder if he’ll find time to swim in their Olympic sized swimming pool?
    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242

    maybe he’ll eat in the fancy restaurants the press do but never tell us about.
    http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html
    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/25/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/#ixzz0p7sSNAwm

    or he’ll shop in the plentiful stores that the activists do.
    http://nwodaily.com/2010/05/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-swim-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/
    http://israelseen.com/2010/05/27/free-gaza-fancy-restaurants-olympic-size-swim-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/

    Maybe he’ll stay in their Grand Palace
    http://www.grandpalace.ps/

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  14. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    if only they could bottle yr toxicities ….eh…?

    i actuallly clicked on this thread..’cos i thought…wtf could the morons find to spew bile on this one…?

    but you proved me wrong…

    (you know those intense feelings you have when you express yr hatreds..?

    you know they are eating you up from the inside..eh..?

    but..darwinian natural selection..i s’pose..eh..?..)

    ..carry on….

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  15. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Brian Smaller (2602) Says:

    June 6th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
    What a laugh. Even a Palmer headed inquiry would find Israel guilty. There will be acknowlegement that there was provocation (knives, iron bars, molotov cocktails,

    What stupid, self serving, zionist loving bullshit.

    The provocation was the Israeli assault on an unarmed merchant vessel. Compounded by the fact the many of the dead were shot in the head from 45cm, in the back, by these cowardly thuggish Zionistas.

    Brian, you are usually a voice of reason, why, on this topic, are you a useful idiot pushing Zionist propaganda?

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  16. Whaleoil (767 comments) says:

    “NZ’s role as a honest broker who doesn’t take sides, and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”

    Oh surely you jest David.

    Billydorker, where is you evidence of shot in the head from 45cm, that is unusually precise from the like of you.

    It might have escaped your notice that another ship was boarded a few nights ago and there were no casualties. The reason no-one was shot? They did what was asked and didn’t attempt to stab, maim or kill Israeli soldiers.

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  17. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Maybe is Israeli terrorist thugs hadn’t boarded an unarmed merchant ship there would have been no attempts to stab, maim or kill Israeli Zionistas.

    Cam, you’re just one more useful idiot in the service of a terrorist state.

    Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics.

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  18. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    With Palmer on the job.. Israel will now only be aloud to kill a set quota of Gaza aid activists.

    Israel should consider the idea favorably.

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  19. Caleb (479 comments) says:

    the soldiers are not at fault, i would have emptied my clip if 20 people were running at me with knives and poles.

    the officer running the op should stand down. he underestimated the situation.

    end of report.

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  20. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    “and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”
    Surely DPF said that with tongue firmly in cheek. Winner of the best joke heard so far this year.

    Palmer would be fair? The ‘well-past-his-due-date’ pompous Labour politician is an utter fool. You have to look at his flimsy track record to surmise the man is a complete wet, a chardonnay socialist, a clown captured by political correctness, a non-entity.

    Israel is an independent state and should not allow U.N. interference, let alone Palmer investigating any thing.

    The U.N. is beyond help if they select the hopeless Palmer to lead such investigation. The outcome is already pre-determined.

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  21. Philbee (6 comments) says:

    Err…we ARE talking about Geoffrey Palmer, the same man who sold NZ’s anti-whaling seat on the right hand of God down the drain…aren’t we? The same man who said that “we” – yes, ALL of this country – would be happy for Nasty Nippon to continue whaling, as long as the scientific loophole was closed…? Ahhh, yes, THAT man!!!
    Wonder what words of wisdom he’ll spout forth in this inquiry…?
    “It’s ok to attack soldiers, as long as we call ourselves peaceful protesters”?
    Or perhaps he could use the Waihopai defence: “we killed the protesters because we thought it would be for the greater good”!

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  22. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Billy Borker

    “Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics.”

    Do you feel as strongly about the Palestinian terror tactics?

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  23. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    More to the point, treat the whole UN interference with the contempt it deserves.You can be sure everyone else in the world will, particularly the Israelis. The UN is an expensive, pathetic joke that should be disbanded.

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  24. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “…where is you evidence of shot in the head from 45cm, ”

    it’s widely available..

    some with up to five bullets in them..from that distance..

    and some in the back of the head…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  25. Positan (390 comments) says:

    “… and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”

    Words completely fail me, DPF. This pompous, pontificating prick, possessor of NZ’s least deserved knighthood, should forever be hanging his head after his infliction of his dreamed up “principles of the Treaty of Waitangi” upon us – and all the gi-normous expense, racial disruption and corruption it has unleashed. If anyone epitomises political prostitution, it is he.

    The man is a completely over-qualified twit. Who’d wouldn’t want him near a local council dispute, let alone something towards which the UN would be automatically and completely biased. We’ve enough lunatic “protestors” – Minto, Locke, etc., doing our image nothing but harm – and by what streak of insanity would we want to be remotely involved with something as dubiously self-sustaining as the UN?

    In any other country’s case – except Israel’s – the right to scrutinise or prohibit entry would be stringently endorsed and upheld – yet TVNZ gives inordinate coverage to the Greens’ wacky viewpoint – holders of 6.5% support in the polls. Ab-so-lutely nucking futs!!!

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  26. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    big bruv, in a word NO.

    Defending your homeland is not terror, but the Zionista invasion of Palestine was most certainly terror.

    Israel, born in terror, sustained by terror.

    Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics

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  27. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Positan (46) Says:

    June 6th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
    “… and I think Sir Geoffrey would be scrupulously fair.”

    Words completely fail me, DPF

    So why’d you keep typing them?

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  28. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Billy borker

    “Defending your homeland is not terror”

    Then why do you have a problem with “the Jews”?

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  29. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    Geoffrey Palmer is a fantasist… He still believes in a great big melting pot.

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  30. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    I have no problem with the jews, as long as they pack their bags and get the fuck out of the middle east.

    Guess you’re just one more useful idiot swallowing the zionista bullshit, hook, line and sinker.

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  31. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    heh i like billy, he is rational :)

    i like the statement “many of the dead”. wasnt there like 9 killed in total? many suggests a lot more than that.

    fuck em, they were on their way to cause shit, the attacked israeli soldiers and got killed. fair game.

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  32. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    …….to set up an international commission of inquiry into the raid on the Gaza-bound aid flotilla a week ago.

    I guess the UN could, but it seems an awful waste of time and money to simply dust off the already written report.

    Why can’t they just get Goldstone back to do another? The world seemed to find his last one perfectly acceptable.

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  33. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    the attacked israeli soldiers

    Would you defend yourself, or roll over and be arse fucked by a Zionista?

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  34. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    ololololol. Palmer has as much credibility as Goldstein, coming from the Labour Party.

    be arse fucked by a Zionista

    You let yourself be arse fucked by a Catholic priest, so it can’t be all bad.

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  35. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    billyborker

    Why hold back, why not tell us that you would prefer to see Israel and all its people wiped off the face of the earth?

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  36. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    I wonder if Father Thompson and his six inch cock realise the damage they did to young Billy.

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  37. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    I have no idea about the facts of the incident beyond some brief media reports. I didn’t realise so many kiwibloggers were eyewitnesses on the ship.

    If a Commission of Inquiry would be dissed as much in advance in the Middle East as it is by the entrenched conclusion jumpers here I can’t see it changing much (that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be investigated).

    So far it seems to have been a major international PR disaster for the Israelis, an inquiry may actually help their case.

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  38. reid (16,523 comments) says:

    I agree, it will be a whitewash from a partial witness, the UN.

    If Palmer’s involved, it will be anything but.

    This man personifies professional integrity.

    In addition, he has internationally recognised heavy-weight credentials, being an ex-PM and all. Good on him.

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  39. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    borker – if i was in that situation i would sit down and shut the fuck up and let them do their job.

    but hey, im always happy to see left wing “activists” and terrorists bring a steel rod to a gun fight.

    shame all 600 didnt get taken out.

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  40. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    To those that support the flotilla…….welcome to the jihad ,you are part of it.
    Israel today,who next? Just dont mention the rockets.
    billyporker and where should the Jews go from out of the Middle East?Jews lived in Arabia at the time of he who should not be depicted…..and as they did not follow him the men had their throats cut and the women and children became slaves.The Turks on the jihadi ship sang about it. Looking for a fight by the sound of it and they got what was coming to them.he he he.

    As Jonesey would have said “they dont like it up ‘em”…………oh and dont mention the rockets……or the Kurds or the Armenians.

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  41. jims_whare (403 comments) says:

    borker you are and always have been a one sided moron. Once upon a time the jews had packed their bags and were out of the middle east.

    What happened? In every country they lived in they ended up persecuted and killed by racist jerks such as yourself. This culminated in the holocaust and pogroms in soviet russia.

    The Zionist movement arose from the realization that the jewish people could not rely on any country of the world to live in peace unless they lived in their own country ruled by themselves. (Huh that sounds like the right to self determination??)

    As to their boundaries being born of war, then look at every country in the world – virtually all of them were determined as a result of warfare and the victor determined the resulting boundaries. (Think all European/African/Asian/American countries)

    If the arabs had accepted the UN plan of 1947 then there would have been 2 states arab and jewish co existing.

    The arabs didn’t want this and attacked the jews. The jews fought back and won. They set the boundaries (and should have happened in 1967 as well if the UN hadn’t poked their nose in)
    So piss off with your one eyed anti semite views and go do something useful like shaving your head and tattooing a swastika on your head so that all people can see you for the limp dick that you are.

    .

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  42. andretti (130 comments) says:

    Israel comes from the position that it knows it has no friends,so does not really give a shit about defending itself by any means.
    I am constantly surprised by the idiots that chose to pick a scrap and coming off second best then complaining about Israels reaction.
    If Israel disamed tomorrow they would be gone by lunchtime,anybody not realizing that knows fuck all.
    Yon kipper in 1973 is well remembered.
    Israel is in a continuous state of war,and will fight with all it has available.

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  43. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    This is fun!

    I can just imagine Billy sitting there, steam coming out of his ears, bashing the shit out of his keyboard in an ever increasing rage.

    Of course he really does not give a shit about the Palestinians, he could not care less, the real target of his rage is not even the Israel’s, it is the great satan, the supreme evil….capitialismim and the good old USA.

    See, Billy and the rest of the pinko fuckwits (Locke, Minto and co) are using the Palestinians as a cause, they are using them in the same way they used black South Africans all those years ago, what they want to see is capitalism defeated and replaced with communism, and through that, see the demise of the USA.

    In their eyes the biggest crime the Israel’s commit is being a capitalist democracy.

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  44. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    As usual these threads on the problem with Israel are quite hilarious, or would be if the problem wasn’t so serious. One can only hope that with the younger American jews gaining control over the Zionist organisations there that some sense will prevail and the obsesive fear of persecution held by the Israeli will be overcome. The trouble is that that will be a slow process and the situation needs a humanitarian solution yesterday. Listening to the Israeli Prime Minister it is obvious that he is locked in to what happened in the past and is incapable of finding a humanitarian solution for the concentration camp that is the Gaza Strip.

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  45. andretti (130 comments) says:

    I think it more than likely that Israel will tell the UN to FRO.

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  46. 3-coil (1,220 comments) says:

    billyborker (7:08pm, 8:14pm etc etc) – you seem a little confused: your new favourite term “useful idiot” was Lenin’s phrase to describe Western liberals who supported Communism. It is hardly applicable to Big Bruv and others you are railing against here, and is probably more accurately applicable to you yourself.

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  47. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    Sadly I’m sure your are correct andretti. The solution depends on the United States of America rather than the UNO.

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  48. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    See, Billy and the rest of the pinko fuckwits (Locke, Minto and co) are using the Palestinians

    And in effect putting them ideologically in the same company as Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Wonderful bedfellows.

    And of course, Hulun the Wench probably has her greasy fingers all over this Palmer crap.

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  49. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “This is fun!”

    Really?

    You idiots mindlessly responding to the fuckwit troll and narcissist Borker need your heads read.

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  50. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    cause redbaiter never responds to trolls..

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  51. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    can i ask again…

    when will farrar clean this sewer up..?

    and make people use their real names..?

    surely the likes of hurf..and the other maggots..

    ..wouldn’t have the balls to stand behind/beside their ‘droppings’…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  52. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Speaking of the Yanks…

    Does anybody know how the Kenyans golf handicap is progressing?

    It seems he plays rather a lot of golf, oil spilling into the sea, wildlife perishing, peoples livelihoods disappearing yet the Kenyan still find plenty of time to play golf.

    Can you imagine how the MSM would have treated Bush is he played as much golf as the Kenyan?

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  53. 3-coil (1,220 comments) says:

    Hurf Durf (9:01pm) – can we please leave the Cottager’s Wife out of this?

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  54. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    3-coil (732) Says:

    June 6th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
    billyborker (7:08pm, 8:14pm etc etc) – you seem a little confused: your new favourite term “useful idiot” was Lenin’s phrase to describe Western liberals who supported Communism.

    One more useful idiot, parading his ignorance. Lenin said no such thing. It was a phrase invented by the Randians.

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  55. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    “You idiots mindlessly responding to the fuckwit troll and narcissist Borker need your heads read.”

    FFS!….are there not re runs of your hero Glenn Beck that you can be watching Comrade Redbaiter?

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  56. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (852 comments) says:

    I love the way JCUKNZ and others think that the Israelis are unrealistically paranoid.

    So, but for the slavering multitudes on their borders preaching that Jews should all be slaughtered, the Iranians going hell for leather after nukes to nuke tel aviv, and “condemnation” from everyone should these evil Israelis not want thousands of “home made” rockets fired on their towns.

    Yup totally unreasonable paranoia.

    Poor bastards. Who’d be jewish. The only religion everyone is allowed to hate. and how dare those evil Joos not just lie down and let Hamas arm itself with heavy Iranian weaponary – oh yes, sorry, “humanitarian aid”

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  57. Positan (390 comments) says:

    Billyborker has contributed 1064 times. I’m really curious. Has anyone actually seen one where he attempted a rational, intelligent or even informative contribution which addressed the actual subject matter in hand, and wasn’t clouded by the sort of denigrating stupidity his apparent leanings seem to compel him to utter?

    I’m really curious. Why waste one’s time attempting to contest such flatulent needs for manual gratification?

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  58. wreck1080 (3,924 comments) says:

    Wouldn’t you say NZ are patently anti-israel?

    I just get that impression for some reason.

    My own opinion, if a neighbouring country were lobbing missiles in Auckland, wellington and other cities, I’d probably want to defend myself.

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  59. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Wouldn’t you say NZ are patently anti-israel?

    It’s the whole “support the underdog, no matter what” mentality. Being in a strategic backwater helps, too. Israel doesn’t have that luxury.

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  60. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (852 comments) says:

    Oh Wreck, don’t be unreasonable. They are merely harmless homemade symbols of frustration at Israeli oppression and occupation, all 3,000 of them.

    Funny how no-one notices that Israel has done pretty much everything asked of them – including exiting from Gaza and South Lebanon, but strangely the result wasn’t peaceful coexistance, rather it meant the missile launchers moved that much closer to Israel.

    Now if Hamas were to renounce its charter – that charter, the one calling the for destruction of Israel, oh and to stop throwing Fatah opponents off buildings, then maybe there might be grounds for a chat. But at the moment I am happy with Hamas = genocidal terrorist theocracy.

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  61. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    One can only hope that with the younger American jews gaining control over the Zionist organisations there that some sense will prevail and the obsesive fear of persecution held by the Israeli will be overcome.

    I can see the thesis title already: Persecution Complexes and their Treatment: A Comparison of Therapeutic Suggestion vs. Operant Conditioning via Kaytusha Rockets

    ……for the concentration camp that is the Gaza Strip.

    Breaking news: First concentration camp in history to have it’s own offshore oil and gas fields.

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  62. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    As I am happy with Israel = genocidal terrorist Zionistas.

    All Jews out of Israel, now.

    How many NZ passports have Palestinians stolen/forged/obtained under false premises?

    Israel is a rogue state that must be brought to heel.

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  63. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Hey Billy, when’s the Civil Union with Luc planned for?

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  64. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    “Wouldn’t you say NZ are patently anti-israel?”

    Nope, apart from those of us who are passionately interested in politics the rest of the country could not really give a shit.

    Most of us grew up with war in the middle east, it was a bit like the IRA in the UK, after a while it becomes boring to them.

    At the moment I suspect that the only things most Kiwis are interested in is keeping their jobs and feeding their families, possibly the only thing that will get them off their apathetic backsides is the amount of money they see stolen from their pay packet every week to fund the likes of Fuller and Ure.

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  65. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    …..an inquiry may actually help their case….

    ……said little Peter as he snuggled further into his warm, cosy blanket. The bed was a bit wet and cold but it would warm up, and anyway there had been a wonderful story – filled with exciting tales of moral outrage performed by Ban Ki and Kofi.

    He shivered with excitement as his mummy smiled, tucked him in and whispered in his ear, Awwww……. that is so sweet Peter – and all the wet stuff you’re lying in means that they’ll be a pony here tomorrow..

    He could hardly wait!

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  66. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Hurf, you seem to have a fixation on poofters, are you a shirtlifter or a dung puncher?

    [DPF: 20 demerits]

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  67. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Some of this ought to have occurred to the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, when he ordered the commando assault on the Gaza flotilla. Evidently not. Beneath that silvery, Harvard-educated veneer there lies an unprincipled thug addicted to the use of Israeli military might and impervious to world opinion.

    Endlessly repeating the errors of history, Israel now engages in a savage repression of the Palestinian people and their right to a homeland of their own. The policy platform of Netanyahu’s Likud party makes no bones about it.

    ”The government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan River,” it reads. ”The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs.”

    Now, what was that about a state wanting the destruction of another?

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  68. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    The plaster strip over the Gaza Strip that is the festering sore for the Israelis.. is far too small to cover the wound from bleeding Western liberals.

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  69. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Do you like being a dick, tom?

    If Israel’s actions were justified as they claim then there’s a possibility they will be vindicated.

    I usually stay out of Middle East arguments, it’s very complex with difficult solutions at best. A few ranters this far removed are irrelevant.

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  70. GJ (329 comments) says:

    Got this from an article written by someone living in Jerusalem. Nice to read the other side of the story.

    1. WHEN PEACE ACTIVISTS SERVE TERRORISM

    Much has been written and reported on the flotilla attempting to reach Gaza on Monday. It resulted in the death of 9 persons on board and the injuring of 7 Israeli soldiers. Criticism against Israel is now heard from all over the world, and there are demands for an independent investigation into the incident. Turkey, from where the flotilla was organized and from where hundreds of the participants came, has canceled military exercises with Israel, called their ambassador home for consultation, and there are rumors that trade agreements between the two countries will be canceled.

    But most nations condemned Israel long before the facts had been established. For countries like Sweden, Norway, Russia, and France, facts do not seem to count as long as there is a possibility to criticize and condemn Israel. Sadly, the same is true for many Christians who, mistakenly believe they are serving as moral guardians and as a counter weight to the “blind-eyed Israel supporters”, join the band wagon.

    It is easy to criticize, and much harder to defend Israel. But this is not because defending Israel demands any kind of moral compromise – On the contrary! People who criticize Israel before knowing the facts are obviously acting out of stupidity, but people who do so after knowing the facts seem to have lost their moral compass. Consider the following background to the flotilla incident.

    Hamas’ Struggle Against Israel
    Gaza is ruled by Hamas, an organization that is recognized by the US, the EU, and Israel among others, as a terrorist organization. During the years from 2001-2008, Hamas fired or supported the firing of 12,000 rockets, most of them against Israeli civilians. The war in Gaza a year and a half ago did not end with a peace agreement (it cannot as long as Hamas is ruling), and so Hamas is still intent on destroying the Jewish state.
    Since the war, 164 rockets and 74 mortar shells have been fired from Gaza at Israeli targets, and in March of this year two IDF soldiers were killed by terrorists trying to enter Israel from Gaza. Contrary to international law, Hamas is holding an Israeli soldier captive, denying him the most basic rights such as a visit by the Red Cross.

    Hamas has for years been smuggling weapons, and material used for building weapons and defense installations into Gaza – willingly financed and backed by Iran. Their stated goal is to prepare for the next war. Israel is obligated to protect its citizens and has therefore maintained a blockade on Gaza to prevent Hamas from rearming. The blockade concerns only products that can be used in warfare against Israel. Israel feels no obligation to provide Hamas with the means with which they will try to kill Israelis.

    The Blockade does not include food, medicine, or clothes. Six days a week, trucks are passing into Gaza from Israel with fruit, vegetables, spices, cheese, bread, wheat, rice, milk powder, baby food, meat, fish, medicine, clothes, and cattle – to mention a few of the items. This is done partly in cooperation with humanitarian aid organizations and partly on Israel’s initiative. There is therefore no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and there is an organized way for aid organizations of bringing goods into the area. Except for construction material, the goods that were on the boats of the flotilla have all been shipped into Gaza by the Israelis already.

    The Organizer of the Flotilla
    Now to another question: Who were the people behind the flotilla to Gaza? The flotilla was organized by the Turkish Islamic organization IHH (Humanitarian Relief Fund). This is yet another organization which uses humanitarian work to cover up its support for terrorism. IHH has for years identified ideologically with the radical Moslem Brotherhood of whom Hamas is an offshoot. IHH is raising funds for Hamas and organizing demonstrations in support of the terror organization. The ship Mavi Marmara is owned by IHH.

    The Struggle on Mavi Marmara
    There are videos showing that prior to the Israeli take over of the ship Marmara, some of the participants were singing songs in Arabic about killing the Jews. A woman also said that martyrdom would be a “good thing.” This is in line with an interview on Hamas TV the day before in which Dr. Abd Al-Fatah Shayyeq Naaman stated: “The [Gaza] flotilla commander said yesterday: ‘We will not allow the Zionists to get near us and we will use resistance against them.’ How will they wage resistance? They will resist with their fingernails. They are people who seek Martyrdom for Allah, as much as they want to reach Gaza, but the first [Martyrdom] is more desirable.” “Resistance,” as is well known, is a Hamas’ code word for terrorism.

    In spite of the fact that the organizers of the flotilla repeatedly stated they would not use violence if boarded by Israel, recordings made by the Israeli navy shows groups of 5-10 people throwing themselves over the soldiers rappelling down from the helicopter. The soldiers are being hit with iron batons, stabbed with knives, and in the end, fired upon with live ammunition. One badly beaten soldier is shown being thrown over board. There are Israeli soldiers hospitalized today with skull fractions, stabbing wounds in the stomach and bullet holes in the back.

    The Israeli soldiers who arrived first on the boat were armed mainly with crowd dispersion weapons. They were not prepared for attempts of lynching. According to an Israeli television commentator, it took 40 minutes before the soldiers were given a green light to use live ammunition, and this was only after shots were fired at the soldiers and their lives were seriously threatened.

    The Terrorists on Board
    Following the incident, it turned out that nearly 50 of the participants at Marmara, were members of different terror organizations. Their overriding goal was to attack the IDF soldiers. A search of the boat revealed a cache of weapons including many knives, slingshots, rocks, smoke bombs, metal rods, improvised sharp metal objects, sticks and clubs, 5KG hammers, firebombs and gas masks.

    The True Intention of the Flotilla
    Taking into consideration the lynching attempts on the Israeli soldiers and given the fact that the equipment the flotilla brought had other ways to reach Gaza, it can safely be concluded that the flotilla’ supposed humanitarian character was of secondary importance. This view is reinforced by the fact that the organizers refused to bring a greeting and food to the captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit from his parents. The goal of this flotilla was to create something that could be presented as an Israeli provocation and unite the world in denouncing the Jewish state. It was an abuse of an alleged humanitarian crisis to create a PR stunt that would strengthen Hamas and weaken Israel.

    The Term “Useful Idiots” Receives a New Application
    There might have been those on board who naively believed they were on a human rights mission. Although most of these might have nothing but contempt for Israel, they had no intention of attacking or lynching the IDF soldiers. These are the “useful idiots” that Hamas has become an expert in abusing for its own perverted purposes. And this should come as no surprise since it is exactly the pattern that Hamas and other terror organizations have been following for years: They let their “heroic” terrorists hide behind civilians in order to claim immunity against counter attacks. But the willingness of peace and human rights activists to let themselves be used in this fashion is beyond belief. Offering themselves as shields for terrorists is a highly immoral behavior that in effect undermines the human rights they claim to represent.

    Is Israel Criticism Accepted?
    So is it not allowed to criticize Israel? It sure is! Blind support has no credibility and does no good for any party. There are instance when Israel makes mistakes. Nobody can or should deny this. However, the major problem concerning Israel is not blind support, but blind criticism. When Israel makes mistakes, that is exactly what they are: mistakes. For the Israel bashers, Israel is unable to do anything right, and everything it does, is described as a gruesome and planned strategy. For these people, Israel behaves arrogantly and tramples upon international law.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Israel knows better than anyone that all eyes are directed at what they do and don’t do. Therefore, as has become a pattern, also this time they consulted with experts on international law before acting. They followed the book in detail by contacting the ships before hand, and even offering them the option to bring their goods to Gaza via the Israeli port of Ashdod. Instead of endangering the lives of those aboard by shooting warning shots or in another way try to control the ship’s course from a distance, they boarded the ship by peaceful means thereby endangering their own soldiers. For 40 long minutes the soldiers fought for their lives before they were shot upon and decided to respond to the fire. It has been said that this was a massacre, and it has been called “Turkey’s 9/11.” Such claims empty the words of all meaning and are despicable attempts to vilify Israel.

    For all those who criticize Israel, there is one test that they need to pass in order to avoid the stamp of being anti-Semitic: Use the same standard when judging other nations. There is no doubt that when Israel’s actions are measured against those of other nations, the high moral standards of the Israeli Army will be revealed. If Israel therefore should accept an investigation of the flotilla incident, revealing the true circumstances around it will only vindicate the Jewish State. But Israel’s problem is that, based on experience, they cannot expect a fair treatment from an independent investigation. As with the Goldstone Report, reaching the truth is not the goal – Finding a way to criticize Israel and undermine its right to exist, is.

    The facts are there for all to see, but many prefer not to be confronted by them. Revelation of the facts will challenge the blind criticism that fits so well with their ideology.

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  71. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    what a load of absolute fucken horse-shit…

    4-5 bullets in corpses…fired from 45cm away..

    ..and some in the back of the head…

    explain/spin that away…

    ..eh..?

    murderous bastards…nothing less…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  72. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    What else do you think pistols are for? Sniping?

    Get a life, Philip. Go chain yourself to one of these boats if you care so much.

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  73. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    There’s truth and lies on both sides.. and you can’t build a bridge when each side burn their end.. so there is no end in sight.

    As a well published book say’s… the world begins and ends there.

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  74. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “…As a well published book say’s..”

    is that ‘the hitchikers’ guide to the galaxy’…?

    ..or ‘atlas shrugged’..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  75. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    Your copy of the Caran Phil.

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  76. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    The United Nations proposal to have Geoffrey Palmer as committee head has Helen Clark written all over it.
    Another entry on her CV and a step closer to becoming United Nations next Secretary General.

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  77. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    Philu – the whole incident has parallels with the incident involving 2 British soldiers caught at the an IRA funeral in Milltown cemetery in Belfast. Those fellas were also armed with handguns and were surrounded by a hostile crowd. They chose not to shoot anyone. Here’s the result.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MILLTOWN_PRIEST_DC_1_copy.jpg

    I don’t care about the politics, if I had a gun and was being beaten with bars or stabbed I know what I would be doing, even if I saved the last round for myself.

    These young British soldiers didn’t shoot and finished up dying in the most horrific fashion at the hands of a frothing mob.

    Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzWSoFszn9U

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  78. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Kiwi in America, great article.

    Anti-Israel, anti-american, anti-capitalism, warmists, environmentalism, pacifists are mainly the same people. Example, if you hear someone who is anti-american, then that person is definitely anti-capitalism. Leftists don’t like the dominance of western culture (wealth & military power) and at the same time, they (themselves) are parasitically surviving off the fruits & benefits of western culture & capitalism. These people feel guilty for being born in a superior culture.

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  79. Philbee (6 comments) says:

    Aside from the to-and-fro of ill-informed public debate on this issue, should we not wonder whether the UN has any validity to hold an investigation into this mess? After all, it was sooooooooooo highly effective in stopping the Rwandan genocide before it started…

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  80. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    Well here’s my take on Turkey from several days ago

    Turkey keeps getting portrayed here as an honest broker rather than just another nation state pursuing it’s interests.

    Its interests 20 or more years ago lay with keeping the USSR and friends at bay, continuing to Westernise and democratise in the hope of joining Europe, and bringing with that a disdain for the seemingly hopeless and powerless Arabs and Persians it had once ruled.

    As a result it was more than happy to be part of NATO, be bestest friends with the USA and thereby get on well with the US’s main Middle East ally, Israel – which also happened to be a Westernised, democratic, economically developing country that appeared to be a beacon for modernising Turks.

    In 2010 of course communism is dead, Russia is just another power – with resources and technology to boot, Europe has repeatedly stiffed the Turks and has serious questionmarks over it’s future now anyway. The US appears to be ignoring Europe and as a result NATO is increasingly a moribund joke. So being best friends with the US is no longer quite so important – and neither is being friends with her key allies.

    By contrast Iran, aided by China and Russia, is flexing its muscles via Syria, Lebanon and non-state actors such as Hamas and Herzbollah, and appears to be heading towards a nuclear bomb – all while the West mewls and calls for more sanctions.

    Given all that, Turkey would be very smart to cover its butt and cozy up to the reality – and if that means stiffing Israel, so what? There will be no downside for Turkey here.

    But of course the cream on top is the fact that the PM of Turkey and his party are also pushing an Islamist agenda as fast as is practicable in the nation that Ataturk built. Sure it’s still a distance from the likes of other Muslim nations – but it’s farther from being what it was, where even ordinary Turks spoke out against ‘nutty’ Islamists. They’ve grown quieter in recent years and will be almost silent now. How much longer before they’ll simply shrug their shoulders and move with the times.

    And of course, in keeping with this thread, Israel will be blamed for having ‘provoked’ or exacerbated that situation.

    The idea that the Turkish PM and co. might be active participants in this affair, that they might be acting from a wellspring of rational, internal motivations of traditional political power plays anmd dirty tricks, rather than simply being lab rats who react only to the actions of the West and Israel, is not one that gets much attention. When it does, the critique is still wrapped in the phraseology of well, yes, yes – but we made things worse……

    The UN is utterly irrelevant to what is happening here with Turkey, Israel and Iran.

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  81. Dave Mann (1,224 comments) says:

    “I think this is a very good thing (blah blah)… would be very useful.”

    DPF: you ARE taking the piss, aren’t you? Please tell us you are joking. Please….

    Or is somebody paying you to write this stuff?

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  82. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Hey, full of shit, wrong again.

    I am anti-American foreign policy, when that leads to tragedies like Afghanistan, but I am not anti American.

    I am not anti-capitalist, but I do believe that we need laws to reign in its excesses.

    I do not subscribe to AGW.

    I do not feel guilty for being born in a superior culture, and this is why I want to eliminate the free influx of chinese, samoans and other such lower peoples.

    And YES, I AM A LEFTIE!

    Fuck, isn’t it hard to put people ina box, so how about actually mounting an agrument?

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  83. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    big bruv (6543) Says:

    June 6th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
    “Wouldn’t you say NZ are patently anti-israel?”
    Judging by the local ODT blog I’d say you are correctin saying the Kiwi is not interested or bothered judging from the diet of rugby and stadium that dominates the column.

    Awhile back somebody asked why Hamas, or at least some in Gaza , keep on firing rockets at Israel. Becuase Israel thumps back so hard? It is the only way to keep their plight in the view of the world. If Israel, and other western countries, accepted Hamas as the legitimate and democratically elected government and treated it with respect the way they treat other nationa there would be no need for rockets to be fired into Israel. The Israeli have amply proved that it is a form of masochism by Gaza. The sensible and powerful person knows how to restrain themselves. Not only are the current leaders of Israel paranoic but also rather stupid in their use of lethal force.

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  84. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Phil U said…
    this is why I want to eliminate the free influx of chinese, samoans and other such lower peoples.

    So, you want to eliminate parasites, useless & lower people such as yourself too? Good job, the sooner parasites such as yourself are eliminated and shipped off to Somalia, the better for this country.

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  85. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    Eh Billy … shouldn’t the line “I do not subscribe to AGW” have continued ” but I like to hedge my bets” ? :-)

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  86. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    Falafulu

    I’m on a non-RIP’d Firefox and saw the comment. It’s from Billy Borker not Philu.

    I ripped Billy a long time ago as it’s clear that he is either trolling (because naturally right-wingers would line up beside a comment like his) – or Alf Garnett irrational.

    I’ve no doubt he’s of the Left though.

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  87. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Well I think billy has told us everything we need to know about the left. They have no grasp of history whatsoever and they’re rabid anti-Semities.

    DPF why are you giving unfettered air time to someone chanting fuck the Jews? Would you be so tolerant of someone saying fuck the arabs? If you bend over backwards to be an applogist any furthters you’lll meet you self on the other side.

    Racist scum DPF, thats all billy and his kind are. they love the terrorists and hate Jews, thats all. Where do you fit into that picture David?

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  88. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    I retract my comment above && apologize to Phil U.

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  89. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Murray, i will concede that “fuck the jews” was wrong, as there are many fine jews. I should have written “fuck the Israeli Zionistas”.

    ANd I have a good grasp on history, which is why I see paralleles between Warsaw 1943 and Gaza 2010, the only difference is there are 5 times more people being starved in Gaza than there were in Warsaw.

    And I know why the Rachel Corrie is so named. Do you? Good jewish name that, Rachel.

    But that’s oK murray, you go right on being a useful idiot in the service of Zionism.

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  90. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    I believe the Islamic notion of “ummah” ,brotherhood is playing a role here too.The Ottoman Turks oppressed their fellow Muslims in their empire.Modern Turkey became ostensibly secular and could therefor have an alliance with the hated Jew.But now we have an Islamist party ruling an increasingly Islamic Turkey so Islamic ideals such as the ummah come increasingly into play.

    Islamism is a huge danger to the middle east and to Europe. It must be resisted,but to do that it must be recognised.

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  91. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    ANd I have a good grasp on history, which is why I see paralleles between Warsaw 1943 and Gaza 2010, the only difference is there are 5 times more people being starved in Gaza than there were in Warsaw.

    Really? Good grasp on history? Yet you have missed one of the key point.

    During both times, the Jewish peoples enemy had a stated objection to wipe them off the face of the earth. This time though, the Jew is able to defend himself.

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  92. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    http://whoar.co.nz/2010/the-hijacking-of-the-truth-film-evidence-destroyed/

    “… From the moment the helicopters arrived, the sequence of events becomes confused.

    The dizzying number of claims and counter-claims serves only to present an incomplete account of a military operation that went badly, badly wrong.

    More than 1.7 million viewers have pored over the edited YouTube footage posted by the Israeli navy since Wednesday.

    In the dramatic clip, commandos rappel down on to the deck from a helicopter, where they are met by angry activists armed with iron bars and sticks.

    This is a critical point, for Israel has rallied domestic opinion on the crucial claim that its soldiers dropped into a meticulously planned riot for which they were completely unprepared.

    Panicked, they acted in self-defence after they landed, shooting only those who threatened them.

    The video is problematic, though.

    The images of angry protesters are striking, but they lack context.

    What happened before?

    What happened next?

    Had the soldiers started shooting when they descended to the deck?

    The only account offered by the Israelis of what happened next is left to Staff Sergeant S, a commando who claims he shot six of the protesters.

    The last of 15 to arrive on the deck, he said he saw that two of his colleagues had gunshot wounds.

    Pushing others into a protective cordon around the injured soldiers, he shot at the protesters to force them to fall back.

    It’s a neat account, but several eyewitness accounts tell a very different story.

    Mr Elshayyal, a reporter for the Arab channel al-Jazeera, was standing to one side of the ship and had a view of the front and back of the vessel when the fighting started.

    By his account, soldiers fired down on the protesters from the helicopters before an Israeli soldier had even set foot on the ship.

    A man next to him was shot through the top of his head, dying instantly.

    “What I saw were shots being fired from the helicopter above and moments later from below – from the ships,” Mr Elshayyal said.

    “As far as I am concerned … it’s a lie to say they only started shooting on deck.”

    At least two other eyewitnesses saw soldiers firing from above the ships before they landed on the Marmara’s deck.

    It is possible that this is what prompted the fierce resistance to the soldiers when they dropped down.

    Several passengers recount how organisers urged their peers to stop hitting the soldiers …

    …aware of how it would harm their claim to be peaceful protesters.

    Others on the ship claim they raised a white flag, but say that it was ignored.

    They also used a loudspeaker to reiterate their message of surrender and requested that the injured be taken off the ship to get medical assistance.

    Again, they were ignored.

    At some point early on, the activists dragged three, possibly four, injured soldiers to a lower deck, either to keep as hostages or for their own safety.

    It was then, several passengers say, that the situation quickly deteriorated.

    Israel has insisted that the protesters took two of the soldiers’ pistols and used them …

    … but others claim the pistols were taken away to prove that Israel planned to use live rounds.

    Below, the protesters rummaged through captured soldiers’ belongings and claimed to unearth a document that they allege is a list of people Israel intended to assassinate.

    The booklet, written in Hebrew and in English, contained some photographs of passengers on the Marmara …

    … including the leader of IHH, the Turkish charity that provided two of the ships, an 88-year-old priest …

    … and Ra’ad Salah, head of the Northern Branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, Mr Elshayyal said.

    A military spokesman, Lt Col Avital Leibowitz, insisted soldiers acted in self-defence and that she “was not aware” of any list.

    But one thing is fast becoming clear – many of the dead were shot multiple times at point-blank range.

    One was a journalist taking photographs.

    “A man was shot … between the eyebrows, which indicates that it was not an attack that took place from self-defence,” Hassan Ghani, a passenger, said in an account posted on YouTube.

    “The soldier had time to set up the shot.” Mattias Gardell, a Swedish activist, told the TT news bureau: …

    …”The Israelis committed premeditated murder … Two people were killed by shots in the forehead…

    … one was shot in the back of the head … and one in the chest…”

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  93. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    Phil – are you attempting to claim that this one sided, heavily biased report by a well known Palestinian supporter (Catrina Stewart) is in any way accurate?

    Are you suggesting that in this day and age of modern media that amongst 550 activists, not one of them managed to capture some damning footage on their cellphone or camera that could have been hidden from the Israelis? That the Israelis are so efficient at searching a ship they could recover every single memory card and cellphone and completely obliterate all evidence apart from what they took themselves????/ Riiiggggggggghhhtttt.

    I don’t have a leaning either way in this, because of my upbringing (Belfast until 1985) I understand how complex issues like this can be so I try to assemble all available information before forming any opinion (if any). This piece of “journalism” is utter garbage, full of conjecture and “what ifs”. It offers nothing to the discussion.

    Similar crap was written for the benefit of Irish Americans who saw the conflict in NI in equally black and white terms as this issue. Consequently Americans poured millions of dollars into the IRA coffers dragging the conflict out for years and causing the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of people.
    While in Texas in the late 80s I had a redneck tell me (because I told him I was Protestant) that I should get the hell out of NI and go back to where I came from. He wasn’t particularly impressed when I pointed out my family could trace our heritage back prior to the Pilgrim Fathers and maybe he should consider moving himself.

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  94. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    that you supported the british occupation/suppression of ireland..

    ..and also support the horrors being committed on the palestinian people..

    ..does kinda go together..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  95. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Strange reading some of the reports that the party predicted to not agree to the UN investigation is not Israel, but Turkey.

    Speculation is growing that the Turkish PM does not want his links with IHH confirmed through any official findings.

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  96. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    PhilU how about Western media censoring the clip of the Navy commander requesting over radio multiple times for the boats to divert to the Israeli port.

    Why didn’t the Western media play the replies from the boats including “Go back to Auschwitz” and……………. ” don’t forget 9/ 11 guys “.

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  97. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    BillBorker you absolute leftist pig.

    There can be no comparison made between the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza.

    Have you not read the paper today including interviews with Gaza shop keepers selling Cadbury chocolates and HD TV’s. Even Hamas spokesman agreed there is no humanitarian crisis, but just a slight decrease in living standards.

    The Warsaw ghetto was a very small city block with more than 100,000 Jews cramped into with no food at all, heavy disease and random evacuation to concentration camps. There was no smugglers tunnels it was absolute hell.

    You are a fuckin absolute troll who should be executed for even trying to make a comparison. Fuck you.

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  98. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1260) Says:

    June 7th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    BillBorker you absolute leftist pig.

    There can be no comparison made between the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza.

    Says who? You? Of course a comparison can be made, and I made it, as have quite a few others.

    Have you not read the paper today including interviews with Gaza shop keepers selling Cadbury chocolates and HD TV’s.

    There is a difference between stocking and selling. Did you not read the part about no customers?

    The Warsaw ghetto was a very small city block with more than 100,000 Jews cramped into with no food at all, heavy disease and random evacuation to concentration camps. There was no smugglers tunnels it was absolute hell.

    So the jews weren’t as resourceful as the Palestionisn? So what?

    You are a fuckin absolute troll who should be executed for even trying to make a comparison.

    Typical resposne of the right wing when challenged – violence. They know no other way.

    So, as the poet said, go fuck your mother in law.

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  99. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    You fuckin absolute low life.

    Have you been to the Warsaw ghetto?

    Have you talked to any Jews that were in death camps?

    Have you been to Yad Vashem and seen the pictures of the ghetto and listened to the stories of those there?

    No so stop being such a cunt and get back down your hole.

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  100. Philbee (6 comments) says:

    To “Falafulu Fisi”,
    I totally disagree that “if you hear someone who is anti-american, then that person is definitely anti-capitalism”.
    There is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of a western culture and the earnings generated by a capitalist society…while HATING the holier-than-thou, we-are-the-greatest, World Police, globally-ignorant, socially-arrogant, loud, obese, checkered-pants-and-hornrimmed-glasses generalisation of a white middleclass CNN-world-view-believing American (did I cover off everything?).
    Show meeeeeeeeeeee da money…anyday!

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  101. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1261) Says:

    June 7th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
    You fuckin absolute low life.

    Your opinion, not that of my friends and famly.

    Have you been to the Warsaw ghetto?

    No, I saw enough Jews in Caulfield and St Kilda as I was growing up.

    Have you talked to any Jews that were in death camps?

    No,they’re dead, aren’t they? And if not, what could they tell me that I don’t already know?

    Have you been to Yad Vashem and seen the pictures of the ghetto and listened to the stories of those there?

    Why bother? It is self seving Zionista propaganda perpetuating the myth that only Jews died in death camps, that only Jews were victims in WW2, that only Jews feel pain.

    No so stop being such a cunt and get back down your hole.

    Why do you think cunt is a derogatory term? I love cunts, so nice, warm and comforting. I hole I am always happy to get down in.

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  102. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/25/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/

    http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html

    missed these did you Billy?

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  103. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    billyborker (1075) Says:
    June 6th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    As you didn’t get it from the videos on the web, I’ll help.

    Here I am being stabbed and clubbed and so is my mate who’s had his gun taken off of him.
    I get my gun out and aim it the assailant turns (to run or take a swing) so I pop him back of the head bam, then turn to the one (s) who are trying to do my mate and bam, bam, both of them down also in the back of the head as they were facing away from me whilst bludgeoning my mate.

    In the dark not having night vision 9as my goggles were knocked off by the 2nd club hit) Rounds are going off at deck level amongst all the hullaboo and shouting allu ackbar and they don’t sound like our guns. I turn towards someone firing and they turn to run to cover and bam I do him in the back of the head.

    As per my training in close quarter combat against multiple assailants terrorists with (edged weapons or projectile weapons)
    I shoot those I downed again in the head as I clear the area and enlarge the perimeter or move towards the gunfire. (procedures used by SAS and other special ops worldwide).
    how hard is this Billy or don’t you want to know.

    You do understand Israeli terrorist, doctrine don’t you?
    1. try and save as many of the hostages as possible but kill all the terrorists.
    2. stay alive
    3. keep your team mates alive.

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  104. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Southern Raider 2:02 pm,

    Ignore Borker (aka LeftRightOut, MyNameIsJack), he’s just an hate mongering anti-Semite who has no interest in the facts, and his putrescence is obvious to all who bother to read his twisted diatribes.

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  105. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    kowtow (291) Says:
    June 7th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    and to us Kowtow because of the influence on foreign policies by dhimmi acting governments and by the OIC’s work at the UN and it’s NGO’s.
    NZ is at risk as some time in the future and is being influenced right now.

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  106. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    MikeNZ (2037) Says:

    June 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
    billyborker (1075) Says:
    June 6th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    As you didn’t get it from the videos on the web, I’ll help.

    Here I am being stabbed and clubbed

    Stop right there. You’re only being stabbed and clubbed because you have attacked an unarmed merchant vessel and put its passengers and crew in fear of their lives.

    You seem to forget – the Israelis were the agressors, any stabbing and clubbing was brought upon themselves by their own actions.

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  107. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    MikeNZ 2:44 pm,

    It’s a shame, Mike, that that account will never make the 6 o’clock news here, and nor are we likely to see it appear on the BBC or any of the other socialist MSM ‘news’ services.

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  108. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    tom hunter (889) Says:
    June 6th, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Good point but then you know the UN likes excuses to run up tabs on our bills, good fresteraunts etc etc.
    Can’t do that if they just copy reports and change dates headlines etc
    So Sir Geoff is needed for the expense bill at least.

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  109. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    # jcuknz (441) Says:
    June 6th, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Sadly I’m sure your are correct andretti. The solution depends on the United States of America rather than the UNO.

    Absolutely right.

    When the OBAMA tells the UN and all it’s members to recognise Israel’s right to exist and if they don’t then they should leave the UN and lose access to the gravy train.

    Then all member states must desist from aiding anyone who attacks her and if they won’t then they should leave or risk being attacked as an accessory.

    Then Israel can start “thinking” that the UN and USA are any way towards fair.
    Until then countries should STFU

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  110. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    tom hunter (889) Says:
    June 7th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the-problem-with-playing-defense-15459

    Good points here.

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  111. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Billy billy billy

    1. terrorist state lobbing rockets, kidnapping etc etc

    2. Military action

    3. legal blockade

    4. stopping vessels in international waters agai9nst said blockade allowable in international law :-)

    5. boarding troops used paintball guns as primary weapons in boarding.

    6. attacked by edged and projectile weapons as well as swarming close qtr tactics with clubs.

    7. some boarders stabbed and shot as well as thrown over board.

    wakey wakey, this is the real world

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  112. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Philbee (4) Says:
    June 7th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    side from the to-and-fro of ill-informed public debate on this issue, should we not wonder whether the UN has any validity to hold an investigation into this mess? After all, it was sooooooooooo highly effective in stopping the Rwandan genocide before it started

    I think they proved themselves with the goldstone report.
    if they had any integrity they would apologise and shut up.
    don’t hold your breath.

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  113. kiwi in america (2,456 comments) says:

    So billy I suppose the fact that 50 hard core trained terrorists joined the passengers on the Marmara AFTER the 450 peace activists embarked in Turkey and that it was this group that bragged on al Jarzeera TV BEFORE leaving about the Jewish ass they were about to kick and it was this group that the video footage shows being well prepared to initiate a violent confrontation is meaningless?

    Funny how the regular peace activists on the other 5 vessels in the convoy and the peace activists on the ‘Rachel Corrie’ all were true to their stated peaceful intentions and passively resisted the Israeli’s blockade requests but acquieced WITHOUT violence when the IDF enforced the blockade.

    So the only exception to these non-violent outcomes was this group of thugs who were trained specifically to meet any commandos with knives, pipes, chains and stun grenades. Even the remaining 450 passengers on board have been seen on film trying to persuade this aggressive group to not provoke the Israeli commandos and a few even shielded the fallen and injured soldiers from attempts by this hard core group of 50 to finish them off.

    Were you outraged when Muslims were slaughtered in Grozny? If you were there’s scant evidence of it in your posts on kiwiblog – I guess its OK for Russians to perpetrate atrocities and count on the left’s silence but when the Joos try to defend their homeland from needless rocket attack by searching ships heading for Gaza, well that’s beyond the pale and worthy of the foul contempt that you express so coarsely on this blog. You reveal yourself as nothing more than a contemptuous anti-Semite.

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  114. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    phil – your retort leaves me speechless.

    At what point did I say I supported anything that you suggest? On the post you submitted I said it was “journalistic” crap based on nothing but conjecture/fantasy. No evidence whatsoever. On the Ireland thing, what part didn’t you understand there?

    You say I supported the suppression/occupation in Ireland????? I was fucking born there! I lived in the fucking ghettos! They weren’t the sole preserve of the Catholic population!! A common misconception.
    I had three close relatives shot dead in random attacks. Two by the IRA, one by a piece of UDA scum.. My mother was traumatised from the age of 30 till she died 4 years ago at the age of 69 after being caught up in the Oxford Street bus station bomb attack by the IRA, part of Bloody Friday. She saw people dismembered by the explosion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Friday_%281972%29

    I had a gun put in my mouth and was threatened with kneecapping because I had a Catholic girlfriend. I got beaten up by my catholic friend’s older brother when I was 13 because I was protestant. I have seen the effects of bigotry and hatred. It is tragic, but what I hate almost as much is journalists who lie and/or twist the truth to support their pet “cause” or to sell some column inches.

    I was talking about poor journalism and lies and the grief they can cause and you twist that somehow to say that I support terror and subjugation of people? You really are pathetic sometimes. No wonder people get fucked off with you.

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  115. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    There’s a funny photo on the front page of the ODT today.
    It shows some musslmen praying in the Octagon while their co jihadis from the socialist international are lying down pretending to be victims of the Jews.

    The funny thing is the scarved muslim women in the background looking on…… they cant pray with the men you see.And I thought socialists were about equality . Strange bed fellows indeed.

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  116. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    yes very strange bedfellows, the Left and the Islamists

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  117. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    MikeNZ 4:47 pm,

    yes very strange bedfellows, the Left and the Islamists

    Bedfellows of convenience, I might add – and only until the Islamists have no further use of the socialists. Then they, too, will have their heads on the block.

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  118. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    “You really are pathetic sometimes. No wonder people get fucked off with you.”

    I’ll drink to that kaya.
    Still you must remember that phil is just a little twat who has never had a life other than his drug induced haze and his keyboard fantasy world.
    Pity is better than fucked off and taking the piss is best.
    He loves it really why else is he here? :)

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  119. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    For BillyBorker. Watch to see why the blockade should be lifted.

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  120. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    I’ve got a question for PhilU. Israel leads the world on marijuana research, specifically for medical use, without the bias that the US positions against any research that may show it in a positive light.

    Would you like to see sanctions against Israel to prevent this research being used throughout the world?

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  121. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/the-messy-state-of-medical-marijuana-in-israel/

    http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/36/11078?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Dr.+Irit+Akirav+&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

    http://israel21c.org/health/marijuana-could-alleviate-symptoms-of-ptsd

    Thanks for that Tim
    interesting.

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  122. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Just reading the latest NZ Management Mag.

    NZ has dropped two places to 20th for most competitive economy. Israel has leap 7 from 24th to 17th.

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  123. Jeremy Harris (319 comments) says:

    Executive summary:

    The “aid workers” beat the soldiers with metal poles, the soliders shot “aid workers”…

    Please have my 100K cheque in the post ASAP…

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  124. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “….Would you like to see sanctions against Israel to prevent this research being used throughout the world?…”

    no..why on earth should i…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  125. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    no..why on earth should i…?

    I just wondered … many anti-Israel commentators call for a boycott of Israeli goods, scholars, etc… Also I wonder if a Palestinian government would allow such research…? …just a thought … :-) … …

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  126. Scott (1,805 comments) says:

    Billy Borker said at 8.02pm yesterday “Defending your homeland is not terror, but the Zionista invasion of Palestine was most certainly terror.Israel, born in terror, sustained by terror.Fuck Israel. Fuck the Jews. And fuck those who support their terror tactics”
    and then at 8.14pm – ” I have no problem with the jews, as long as they pack their bags and get the fuck out of the middle east”

    Can I just clarify Billy- are you calling for the forced expulsion of the Jews out of Israel and the Middle east? If so what is your rationale?
    Lastly – are you really looking for a final solution to the problem of the Jews?

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  127. Positan (390 comments) says:

    Is it worth pointing out that the subject of this piece was “Palmer to head Gaza enquiry?”

    From the irrelevant evidence adduced- and pathetic posturing displayed by argumentative
    contributors in the last 50-odd items – no one would ever have guessed.

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  128. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    I thought what needed to be said, got said, before your first post at 8pm. ;-)

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  129. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    Is it worth pointing out that the subject of this piece was “Palmer to head Gaza enquiry?”

    From the irrelevant evidence adduced- and pathetic posturing displayed by argumentative
    contributors in the last 50-odd items – no one would ever have guessed.

    Indeed. Borker succeeded. Truly a troll worthy of the label – and everybody has gone for him.

    Well done BillyBorker

    Clap………clap……….clap

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  130. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    kiwi in america (889) Says:
    June 7th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
    So billy I suppose the fact that 50 hard core trained terrorists joined the passengers on the Marmara
    *********************************************************************************************************

    Has anyone told KIA that Israel has now retracted that claim?

    Or are the hasbara cannon fodder too far down the food chain to be kept up to date … after all, tell a lie often enough…

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  131. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    Helen Thomas has resigned as a White House reporter, effective immediately.

    Maybe she can get a job broadcasting for Viva Palestine. She’s fully qualified, the only competition she has is Luc, and he’s even uglier!

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  132. kiwi in america (2,456 comments) says:

    Munted link there Positan

    Tom – yes even the White House had to admit her “go home to Poland/Germany” comments were over the top.

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  133. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    ….even the White House had to admit her “go home to Poland/Germany” comments were over the top.

    Yah – after four days of waiting to see which way the wind was going to blow.

    Actually they should have just left her there at the front row where she could have bravely continued to ask the questions no one else will ask and speak truth to power. She could have served as a living, breathing example of what’s going on now in the West.

    Let’s face it, her attitude towards that particular ‘solution’ for Jews is increasingly common – as can be seen from Luc’s regular comments here – it’s just that most journalists can’t admit it (perhaps even to themselves) and she had to grow dotty in her old age and be caught in front of something that did not resemble a typical TV camera before she slipped up and revealed what she’s undoubtedly thought all these decades.

    I loved Jim Treachers comment on this:

    “Remember: You’re a Nazi for saying we should enforce our own immigration laws… But not for telling the Jews to beat it.”

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  134. Philbee (6 comments) says:

    Dear Positan:

    Thanx for the flix link to “the smoking gun”: it was sure to turn up, sooner or later. Of course there will be those who’ll say the Israelis planted that…if so, it’s a pretty elaborate hoax. And those conspiracy theorists will never accept any investigation carried out by IDF either.
    But there’s now so much video evidence and researched articles over this past week to support IDF’s claims that the flotilla was an innocent pawn in a terrorist chess game. You win some, you lose some: they’ll always try to get munitions into Gaza, so Israel will always try to stop them.
    Rest assured there’ll be more of this…

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  135. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Positan – guess I’m not convinced. The rather amateur blockade runners must have known that the IDF would intercept the shipment. Why load it with self-incriminating evidence? We’ll see I guess.

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  136. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    that video is from 2009…

    doh…!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  137. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    how about that philbee..?

    colour him stoopid..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  138. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    Get off your ass phool.

    Stop watching videos and start looking for a job.

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  139. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    get back on the laz-y-boy…!..

    ..that bum-crease calls you…

    ..john old-man…

    (have you taken yr pills yet…?..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  140. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    No way for the CEO of a News Aggregator to address his customers magpie.

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  141. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Had the phone call from WINZ yet Phool?

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  142. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    you’re a customer..?

    i take it all back..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  143. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    for sa while there..i had a policy of just ignoring the morons…

    ..and just arguing the case/w.h.y…

    i think i will return to that regime…

    ..as of now…

    ..(i do however retain the right to ‘laugh at’…and lampoon…

    ..but i will go vitriol-free..for a while…)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  144. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    Just as well magpie I was going to get a UN referee to measure our respective bum crease signatures knowing full well that mine could never match the immense one that you have developed by spending the last 30 years on your arse.

    Here comes Paula….eh?

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  145. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    i will attempt to emulate shaw…

    ..and ‘think very carefully about what i want to say..

    ..and then say it with the utmost levity.’..

    (i have a yoga-arse….eh..?..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  146. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Part of me wonders what’s to investigate, there’s enough video evidence to show the IDF being attacked when they attempted a non-violent boarding of the ship. Then I realise Palmer is part of the troughing elite, and the UN is the trough of troughs. No doubt he’ll get a cushy posting there when he’s extracted all he can from NZ.
    Let’s hope the UN is thoroughly discredited when a full on war breaks out in the middle east.

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  147. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Israel need look no farther than UNSC Res 1701, which ended Lebanon War II. That resolution was to put a stop to the rearming of Hezbollah. It failed miserably. Why should better results be expected in Gaza?

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  148. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    The Damour Massacre occurred on Jan. 20, 1976 as part of a series of events during the Lebanese Civil War, in which Palestinians joined the Muslim forces, in the context of the Christian-Muslim conflict. Subsequently, Beirut was divided along the infamous Green Line, with Christian enclaves to the east and Muslims to the west.

    At Damour, PLO guerrillas locked in the women and children before lighting the church on fire. The attackers destroyed the buildings in the seaside village systematically and then took revenge on the remaining Christian inhabitants. The Christian cemetery was destroyed, coffins dug up, the dead robbed, vaults opened, and bodies and skeletons thrown across the graveyard. The church was burnt and an outside wall was covered with a mural of Fatah guerrillas holding AK47 rifles. A portrait of Yasser Arafat was placed at one end.

    Twenty Phalangist militiamen were executed and then civilians were lined up against a wall and sprayed with machinegun fire. None of the remaining inhabitants survived. Estimate of the civilian dead is 584.

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  149. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    kiwi in america: some superb posts, thanks.

    Here’s another reason why a Palmer inquiry would never be credible: http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/leftist-un-appoints-leftist-pm-to-absolve-club-wielding-leftist-peace-activists/

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