Solomon on Private Prisons

June 6th, 2010 at 1:54 pm by David Farrar

Ngai Tahu Chairman was interviewed today on Q+A. The part I want to emphasise is this:

MARK I like the concept, I like the concept of the way that they deal with the cultural aspects within a prison system. For example one of the maximum security prisons we visited in Australia had a rather large Aboriginal population. The reality the management were Scots, and Australians and English people, and I simply asked them well how do you deal with the cultural needs of the people that you’re not connected to, and their answer was quite excellent from my point of view – we don’t, we have gone into a relationship with the Aboriginal tribes in the region and they work with us to set the cultural aspects within the prisons system. But what we found when we went through the prison was – I mean I’ve been to Paremoremo, I’ve been to Paparoa, I’ve had a look through the New Zealand prisons. The atmosphere between the two prisons was absolutely outstanding, the difference between the Australian model under the , to what we have here. For example, every prisoner in the Port Prince prison has three opportunities every day, they’re either in a hospital bed, they’re at a work station, or they’re in education. That’s their choices. We went into what’s known as the youth wing, 18 to 29 year olds, they run companies within the prison.

GUYON So it’s a lot more innovative than in the New Zealand system?

MARK Lot more innovative, they’re educated in drive, they’re upskilling, and the latest thing I heard from GE4S that they were petitioning the Australian government to introduce trade training, and their view is what is the point of having a prisoner behind bars five to 15 years, and at the end of it you chuck him back out on the street with no qualifications, no skills, within a month he’s back in prison. You’ve got to look at how do you address the recidivism.

Just remember, this is what Labour and the Greens have fought tooth and nail against.

And Solomon say the praise isn’t commercially motivated:

MARK Myself and three other Iwi leaders were invited by TPK to meet with some of the companies that are coming into the company to potentially bid for private prisons. I will be up front, my interest wasn’t so much in having an equity share in the prison. I wanted to know how these companies that are offshore companies would deal with the cultural aspects when they came into New Zealand. So we met with GE4S.

GUYON A Melbourne based company.

MARK And Serco, yes the other Australian based company. We were blown away in the way that they deal with their prisoners.

GUYON You were impressed?

MARK We’re completely impressed.

For all their talk about the need for better rehabilitation in prisons, Labour and the Greens put narrow ideology ahead of something that could make a real difference.

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24 Responses to “Solomon on Private Prisons”

  1. peterwn (3,213 comments) says:

    Greens – would be idelogoly because that is the line fed by Labour

    Labour – claims it is idelogoly but in reality it has more to do with keeping in sweet with the unions especially the public sector unions.

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  2. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “MARK Lot more innovative, they’re educated in drive, they’re upskilling, and the latest thing I heard from GE4S that they were petitioning the Australian government to introduce trade training, and their view is what is the point of having a prisoner behind bars five to 15 years, and at the end of it you chuck him back out on the street with no qualifications, no skills, within a month he’s back in prison. You’ve got to look at how do you address the recidivism.”

    All of this is quite true of course but to use a phrase leftists are fond of, its putting the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. I support any initiative that keeps law abiding citizens free from violence and crime, and these people are trying to do that.

    However what is really happening here is that the state is substituting for parents and parenting. The mothers and fathers should be inculcating their offspring with values and morals that keep them out of prison. Why aren’t they? Because the parents and their children are imprisoned by the left’s politically advantageous welfare state and all of the immorality and despondency that comes with it.

    If we really want to stop children falling into chasms, we address the problem at the top of the cliff, and that problem is the welfare state that the cynical power obsessed left regard as a political expediency.

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  3. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    I watched Q & A this morning. They had a guy on the panel because he was a Maori. No other reason apparently. He pointed out that his tribe had turned a $3 million Treaty settlement into $400 million. I am more than a little curious to find out how they managed to do this. If it was done by normal business practises I think they would make Warren Buffett look like a limp dick.

    Then Solomon pointed out how Ngai Tahu have increased their $170 mil to $600 mil. Even though things did not go well to start with when they got their settlement. Now, Ngai Tahu have the right, under their settlement, to get first dibs on any “surplus” Crown property. Forever. They have done well from this. I would like to know some details on what property deals have been done between the Crown and Maori regarding taxpayer owned assets.

    Solomon also pointed out that Maori get charged with a lot more offences by the cops than non-Maori. Maybe that wouldn’t happen if they stopped committing the offences. D’uh.

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  4. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    He pointed out that his tribe had turned a $3 million Treaty settlement into $400 million. I am more than a little curious to find out how they managed to do this.

    Perhaps $3m buys enough lobbying to secure another $397m handout. Heaven help us if the $397m is similarly spent.

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  5. theodoresteel (91 comments) says:

    I think the point was more, when a Maori is arrested, they are charged with 6 offences, whereas when a Pakeha is arrested they are charged with one.

    ie same circumstances but Maori would be charged with assault, battery, attempted kidnapping, disorderly behaviour, obstruction, conspiracy to assault and Pakeha would be charged with assault.

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  6. backster (2,123 comments) says:

    In the case of Ngai Tahu I would imagine that a substantial part of their assets would be in SeaLOrds as they would have received substantial Fishing Assets over and above the $170 mill.Ngati Whatua would have benefited from prime Auckland real estate value increases since Bastion Point was given to them.

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  7. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    theodoresteel… bullshit. The cops need to get all their numbers up so that it doesn’t look like they spend all their time giving tickets to people driving at 111, or 105 on long weekends, on the highway.

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  8. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    The National ideology is the same as Mark Solomons and Maori .. get off the road to dependency and get on the road of self-sufficiency. He makes some very good points Australian prisons are more innovative for prisoners rehabilitation giving prisoners the opportunity for more educated drive and upskilling so they are more prepared and less likely to re-offend after they leave. Were we tend to let our prisoners rot to re-offend later. Mark Solomon other comment on the program that Maori would be the Governments best SOE partner if they were to sell off SOE,s as Maori aren’t going anywhere and invest in their own people and country is also a good point. Maori partnerships and businesses can only be good for the Government and all New Zealanders as a whole by keeping jobs and investments in NZ and not see them syphoned off overseas. Maybe its about time we trusted Maori to get on with it.. by backing them and inturn securing NZ future.

    I usually say shoot the prisoners and Phuck the Maori’s… but to be realistic its not realistic and its not our future.

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  9. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    Anybody else living in Auckland had the value of their property increase by more than 130 times in recent years?

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  10. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    Correction… but to be realistic its not realistic and its not our future…

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  11. Chuck Bird (4,765 comments) says:

    Solomon also pointed out that Maori get charged with a lot more offences by the cops than non-Maori. Maybe that wouldn’t happen if they stopped committing the offences. D’uh.

    The actual quote was.

    MARK Well of course it’s partly our problem, but there are issues that have to be addressed. For example, if you are Maori, Pacific Island, you are four and a half times more likely to be incarcerated if you go in front of a judge. If you are a Maori or Pacific Island on average when you are arrested in any Police district of the country, if you are Maori or a Pacific Islander you will face on average six charges as opposed to one charge for a European in any Police district of the country.

    Mark is talking about charges per arrest as well as relative incarcerated rates if you go in front of a judge.

    He alleges racism. That may or may not be true or there may be a small element of that. It could also be that more Maori or a Pacific Islanders are repeat offenders and therefore should go to jail.

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  12. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    Solomon is a liar. The minimum number of charges is ONE. So the average for European, or rather, non-Maori, must be higher than one. Unless, of course, non-Maori only ever get charged for one offence when arrested.

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  13. Viking2 (11,275 comments) says:

    Well then the queation is; what are we, the state and the community doing, or have done that has created a situation where this is the option for so many. Why has this situation developed?
    Its a waste of human resources.

    In the case of many young men we should look hard at the loss of rights the have incurred. Yep that’s right.
    They have been shunted to second class by the feminists.
    They have been deprived by law and socialists of being allowed to leave school at 15 and go to work which is much more suited to there initiative than school. (now before you all rant about education school is not the only place to learn and indeed many very wealthy have never made it far in school. Its a socialists thing.)
    They have been denied trade based training at high school.

    They have been deprived of the right to ask an employer for a job and negotiate a training rate which suits both parties.
    They have been granted a free pass with benefits and their girlfriends have been granted a free pass with benefits for both.
    their traditional jobs in places like forestry, farming, road works have been commandeered by efficiency experts to the point where we would rather bring in new immigrants than train our own. Easier to pay the dole out than accept the need to train young people.
    We have priced them out of any employment market by exporting the jobs to China because the socialists and the feminists want things like 10 days sick pay and four weeks holiday and maternity leave and so on.

    Thats why so many young men finish up angry and frustrated. That’s why they go to jail. Angry and frustrated. They are no longer valued by their own communities. Whereas immigrants apparently are.
    When we all had jobs back in the 60′s we didn’t have this problem.
    So, we need to turn the clock back and remove the socialism in legislation and in education and get everyone back to work.

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  14. Viking2 (11,275 comments) says:

    john.bt.
    No its not. You are assuming everyone arrested is charged but that’s not the case.

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  15. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    I am not a lawyer, God forbid!, but how can one be arrested and not be charged with an offence?

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  16. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    For all their talk about the need for better rehabilitation in prisons, Labour and the Greens put narrow ideology ahead of something that could make a real difference.

    Why is better rehabilitation now only possible or more likely through using private providers?

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  17. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Good point Stephen.

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  18. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    Viking2………. How can one be arrested and not charged with an offence?

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  19. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    MARK Lot more innovative, they’re educated in drive, they’re upskilling, and the latest thing I heard from GE4S that they were petitioning the Australian government to introduce trade training

    Uh – NZ’s been doing trade training for years… More innovative?

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  20. malcolm (2,000 comments) says:

    I don’t buy the “they need their own culture in prison to help them” rubbish. It’s just a way for people with no skills to latch onto the public tit by selling their supposedly unique cultural insights. But how much value can that culture provide if it’s the very wellspring from which these criminals come in the first place?

    Most prisoners need a lot less of their own culture and a lot more exposure to a culture of self-improvement, self-respect and being a productive and law-abiding member of society.

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  21. Viking2 (11,275 comments) says:

    johnbt.

    A person can be arrested and released without charge or arrested and given a warning or arrested and given diversion and probably others as well.
    Drunks get arrested nightly but released after a night in the cells.
    you need to get out more.

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  22. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    I take RB’s idea but not his solution …. the point is that if the family do not provide the guidance and the child goes to prison then it makes sense for the state to do the training as Mr soloman found in Australia.
    If they are trained and in a job I think there is a fair chance that having a position in society they will be less likely to break the law.

    A point …. Labour = Unions = Union empire building with more and more prisons being built and staffed by their increasing membership. No wonder they are against innitiatives which could reduce the prison population.

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  23. MikeG (415 comments) says:

    The trouble the private prisons will be tendered out to the lowest cost bidder, so how will they find the money to fund rehabilitation schemes?

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  24. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    innitiatives which could reduce the prison population

    Make all our prisons Maori owned and run… With only Maori culture customs and language… that will not only deter whites from affending… but Maori to.

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