Still not contrite

June 20th, 2010 at 8:57 am by David Farrar

sent home, hoping he would come back to Parliament contrite for his spending. But as the SST reports, he is anything but:

Goff said Carter, MP for Te Atatu, had failed to express contrition and forced him to apologise unreservedly. …

Carter said: “We could argue the rights and wrongs of whether I’ve done anything wrong. The only personal items were two bunches of flowers that a staff member sent on their card, and all ministerial travel was signed off.”

Once again, he is arguing he did nothing wrong. Also overlooks the flowers were to his own partner.

He said the apology was given “because you have to think about what is good for the Party”.

In other words, he didn’t mean it. He did it to help Labour, not because he accepts any errors of judgement.

Carter was embarrassed again last week when it was revealed he promised exclusive interviews to both TV3 and TV One. “I guess I just wanted to be nice. It’s called PR, that’s what politicians do.”

No, there is another word for that, one you can’t use in the House.

So last week Carter was at least pretending to be contrite. Now he has emerged to talk to the media and once again declare he has done nothing wrong and only apologised to help Labour. So who is advising him?

Chris Carter last night broke his silence, saying he was returning to parliament, having taken advice from the party’s former head, Helen Clark.

This really makes Goff look a man not in charge of his own party.

Matt McCarten writes in the HoS:

But Carter’s meltdown this week surely finishes him. It’s not the card misuse that will kill him, it’s his clear inability to admit he’s done anything wrong.

As we see above.

His tiresome claim that he was being targeted because he was gay was absurd when of the four Labour MPs Phil Goff promoted, three were gay.

They were promoted on merit – their sexuality had nothing to do with it.

Yep.

Carter’s actions this week was politically unforgivable. Goff had his perfect story.

The errant credit card behaviour was under ’s watch, not his. It was a golden opportunity for Goff to act tough; discipline the three transgressors and stamp his authority on his caucus. …

But Carter’s actions completely destroyed Goff’s strategy. Understandably Goff hit the roof and banished Carter to home detention to reflect on his indulgence. But the damage was done.

Instead of Goff looking like a leader in charge and his party being able to move on from the scandal we have a party still being rocked by their own indiscipline.

Will Goff now demote Carter to the backbenches? Surely after the SST story, he has no choice? Or is Clark still protecting Carter from afar?

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140 Responses to “Still not contrite”

  1. dad4justice (8,238 comments) says:

    Aunty Helen gave us Chris.

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  2. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    It’s been a running joke about texts from New York. The joke’s on Chris Carter now; Goff must sack him, if only to prove that Goff is the leader, not Clark.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/06/whos-pulling-labours-strings.html

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  3. lilman (960 comments) says:

    God the guy makes me puke.
    Hardern up ,what a pathetic waste of space.
    Carter is more of the same we have had to put up with from the capital and it makes me sick.
    What a man.
    A theif and a liar go together and he is a good example of the quote.

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  4. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    “Or is Clark still protecting Carter from afar?”

    That’s what Carter is trying to spin. Goff has to decide if he wants a Labour Party for the future, or a Labour Party of the past.

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  5. Banana Llama (1,043 comments) says:

    About as rational as a blue arssed baboon in heat.

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  6. dad4justice (8,238 comments) says:

    PG – I think the real story of the Aunty Helen era is sordid locked closet. Press it in the middle and it delivers flowers and a bucket of smelly whitewash. Hi Peter got any bolt cutters?

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  7. Yvette (2,824 comments) says:

    “…having taken advice from the party’s former head, Helen Clark.”

    He is again in error, for seeking Helen’s advice, but he is a utter idiot for making that public.

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  8. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    Like sand through the hourglass, these are the days of the labour party :)

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  9. Michael (910 comments) says:

    McCarten is predicting a fall in the next polls for Labour, I think the opposite will happen. Goff has handled this well and party polling performance is increasingly linked to Leader performance. At the very least, preferred PM support for Goff will double.

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  10. OliverI (112 comments) says:

    “Chris Carter last night broke his silence, saying he was returning to parliament, having taken advice from the party’s former head, Helen Clark.”

    Still ruling the Labour party from NY then..

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  11. mjwilknz (605 comments) says:

    Is anyone else amazed by the influence Helen Clark still appears to wield in the Labour Party?

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  12. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    @ Michael – I disagree. Goff is now damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t. Helen Clark still has a lot of loyalists in Labour’s caucus, and if Goff cuts Carter loose, as he should …

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  13. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    @mjwilknz – not in the slightest. Once a control freak …

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  14. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    “Goff is now damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t. ”

    Maybe not. If he does what’s necessary to create a new Labour free of the Clark legacy there might be some carnage, and it might sink him quicker, but in the end it will help Labour find a way forward so he will have done some good.

    On the other hand if he does it forcefully enough he could end up staying in charge for another term, if that were to happen anything could eventuate from there. And at least Labour should be stronger.

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  15. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    This constant harrassment of a guy who was nothing more than a hard working and conscientious Minister is nothing but pure gay bashing.

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  16. Yvette (2,824 comments) says:

    It would appear that Clark’s advice to Carter is that he should return to Parliament immediately.
    Goff’s intention appeared to be that Carter should not return until he had thought about his future.
    It should be good to have Carter present when National asks the questions, which they no doubt will, about who is now running the Labour Party.

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  17. fatman43us (166 comments) says:

    Clark! – A Stalinist to the bitter end! And Carter is her Beria

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  18. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    This was bitchy, plain and simple – http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/2010/06/ditch-bitch.html

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  19. JC (958 comments) says:

    As has been pointed out, Helen approved all Carter’s trips and both her and H2 would have been well aware of the problems of unauthorised expenditure.. its unthinkable that with the policy of “no surprises” that she wasn’t being informed by Ministerial Services of the goings on.

    So she is obviously setting up a putsch against the Goff faction.. is it Street who will emerge the leader of the Clark faction?

    JC

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  20. mjwilknz (605 comments) says:

    @Inventory2, well, I am still amazed. How can the Clark loyalists remain so even while Labour languishes in the polls? Do you think they’re expecting Clark will at some stage return like a knight in shining armour to save the fair Labour maiden from the fire-breathing John Key dragon? It’s a bit ridiculous, isn’t it? I guess I must be underestimating the sway that Clark held over Labour as PM. Because they came to rely on that sway so much, they still look for it, even now it’s over the other side of the world!

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  21. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    There seems to be a certain type of leader who when they’re deposed take it out on their successor. We saw Muldoon actively undermine McClay and we’re seeing it again here. I have a lot of time for Muldoon but I’ve always felt that that was one of his less great moments.

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  22. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Norman whines “give me back my flag” over and over again in a pathetic Rhys Darby voice. But still comes out looking like the week’s second least-relevant party leader. At first Goff looked like a man in control. But how many times did he have to reorganise his spokespeople last week? Carter repeatedly ignores what Goff has to say to him, mocks Goff, the media, and the people of NZ publicly, and tells us that Clark is still running the party. Goff is the big loser here. Demoting Carter again is going to be seen as a wet bus ticket punishment that will just emphasise Goff’s irrelevance. The only thing he can do now is to force Carter’s resignation.

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  23. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    Carter was embarrassed again last week when it was revealed he promised exclusive interviews to both TV3 and TV One.

    Not that I have any sympathy for Carter or Labour, this could be dreadfully unfair to him. When you set up media you do talk to all media about exclusives, hoping one reporter will bite. That might be loosely described as a promise, but really it is just an offer.

    Now of course if Carter had actually agreed with two organisations for an exclusive, then that is patently silly of him, but I really doubt that’s what happened.

    I have to say we’ve seen this before from the media. Occasionally a politician seems to cross a line with them and then they go into attack dog mode and misconstrue everything somebody says. Remember TV3 leading last year with the story of Melissa Lee stumbling an answer. That is not news. And every other interview they do, the interviewee will stumble, and they will cut it. But TV3 led with it and embarrassed her. Ugly journalism.

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  24. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (852 comments) says:

    So lets play who’ s party is this anyway?

    Seems like the rainbow coalition led from NY is firmly in charge.

    So Goff has two choices

    He stamps it out, fires Carter and calls a bye election (using the Hooton script it must be said).

    Or he rolls over and admits that he is just keeping the seat warm for the next leader (Street or Little it seems).

    The problem is that if he tries strategy 1, he very well may not have the numbers and may get humiliated anyway.

    The interesting question is which is worse for the long-term prospects of the Labour Party.

    A horrible public bloodletting, Goff bringing the Temple down and lots of bright sunlight about the future of the party – and the fight in public might not be such a bad thing really. Labour hasnt a hope in hell of winning 2011 anyway, so what does Goff really have to lose here. After all, if Labour stays as it is, the party of career academics, gays and womyns issues, then it stands a strong chance of losing its base.

    Time to break out the beer and popcorn (or in language the labour luvvies can understand, “time for the Bolly, Darlings”!)

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  25. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    Reid

    We saw Muldoon actively undermine McClay and we’re seeing it again here. I have a lot of time for Muldoon but I’ve always felt that that was one of his less great moments.

    I’d say it was one of his better moments. Most of his career was spent making New Zealanders poorer. Confining the damage to Jim McClay is a win.

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  26. Manolo (13,838 comments) says:

    Carter is publicly challenging Goff to take action knowing full well the weak Labour leader will dodge the issue as long as he possibly can.

    Goff is a known appeaser without hope of leading the socialists much longer, while Clark, in the background, pulls her puppets’ strings. Goff, the invisible man, will soon be history.

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  27. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Think about this.
    Did Carter ring Helen or did Helen ring Carter.
    Once Carter went hawking his exclusive do you think that Helen panicked about what might be said?
    Err yes.

    So what influence has Helen exacted over Carter to make him come out fighting?
    Ensure that he stayed out of the media exclusive.

    Good questions.

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  28. si_rangi (60 comments) says:

    Chris Carter – the gift that just keeps on giving

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  29. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    My guess is this is mostly or wholly a Carter play, trying desperately to resurrect past glory and privileges. He seems to care only for himself and doesn’t give a stuff about Goff, the future of Labour nor the up and coming Labour MPs.

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  30. Seán (397 comments) says:

    Matt McCarten said:

    His tiresome claim that he was being targeted because he was gay was absurd when of the four Labour MPs Phil Goff promoted, three were gay.

    They were promoted on merit – their sexuality had nothing to do with it.

    Actually I don’t think Chris Carter ever accused Goff or his Labour colleagues of targeting him for being gay, but rather the media. A massive difference that McCarten and Farrer miss. Nevertheless it is a tiresome claim indeed.

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  31. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    One thing I really noticed this week is how Goff was walking. He had a new walk! Designed, I believe, to look like he’s in charge.

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  32. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    “He had a new walk!”

    Which would have made my suggested tactic for him even more impressive.

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  33. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    This is such a non issue. The public don’t give a shit about Carters credit card spending or that he’s gay. It s even more of a media beat up now just to wring the last bit of faux outrage out of the right leaning homophobic bloggers…*yawn*

    I’m pickin Goff will just ignore this *ahem * story, Carter will be advised by others in the party to wind his neck in and it’ll be a united front of, business as usual showing up what a joke most of the NACT ministers are.

    [DPF: You think the public don't give a shit about the spending? I think around 100 unemployed former UK MPs would disagree with you]

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  34. Seán (397 comments) says:

    In McCarten’s linked article above he goes too soft on Shane Jones in the first few paragraphs. For me Jones’ spending is by far the most blatant. While others may have been excessive in their spending of transport, accommodation or alcohol, at reasonable levels these items are more or less acceptable. Hotel porn movies? Not acceptable under any circumstances. Jones was deliberately and knowingly stealing. There’s just no other way to see it. He was stealing from the taxpayer, stealing from the working man, a sector of society McCarten purports to support. Well next time McCarten accuses some employer of ripping off the hard working man, just remind him of his go-easy on Jones in this column of his. McCarten – the hypocrite.

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  35. Paulus (2,632 comments) says:

    With Jones gone Street must be smiling. Isn’t about time we had a woman Labour leader – they cannot survive in a male world.

    Who signed off Carter’s spending – the bilious bithch and her right and left arms Simpson.

    They will be back before you realise it, continuing to run the Labour party. Isn’t she on a 3 year contract? I understand her chances of further movement in the UN is not good – she has upset the establishment too much, and is no Adminstrator –

    Simpson is better but she let the rorts pass when in power. Who authorised the pledge card?

    Has Goof got piles? “the navy sailor” way he is walking recently shows something . Must close his buttocks really, especially when Carter is around.

    [DPF: 20 demerits for that last sentence.]

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  36. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    @ pollywog “I’m pickin Goff will just ignore this *ahem * story, Carter will be advised by others in the party to wind his neck in and it’ll be a united front of, business as usual showing up what a joke most of the NACT ministers are.”

    Maybe in HQ PR but back on the SS Labour the deck chairs are getting worn out, waters coming on-board and if able seaman Carter got tipped overboard it would make every-ones life a bit easier, imho.

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  37. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    Must close his buttocks really, especially when Carter is around.

    I suppose the same applies to Key when Finlayson is around ?

    Helen…thats Clark eh ? Didn’t she hand English’s arse back to him in shreds for probably the most embarassing National election defeat ever.

    How the hell he ever made it back to control the countries purse strings is beyond me, let alone gift out slush money to his freshie mates at PEDA LTD ?

    4.8 million dollars ?…kinda makes Carters gift money look insignificant. And then theres the rorting of his family trust to cheat the taxpayer out of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars?

    remember how contrite and apologetic he was ?…No ?…oh thats cos he wasn’t and still isn’t !!!

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  38. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    Carter won’t walk and Goff won’t push him.

    It might just ignite the bonfire of all the vanities and Goff could find himself being the effigy paraded in the street and torched instead.

    Walking the talk like theres a carrot up your arse makes for good posture, but it takes more than that to secure your seat at the head of table.

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  39. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    pollywog, English wasn’t seasoned enough to lead the Nats when he was required to take it over. He’s basically not a leader, he’s an engineer and his economic training and Treasury experience makes him well suited to his current role.

    “4.8 million dollars ?…kinda makes Carters gift money look insignificant.”

    Please don’t conflate two separate issues, there’s a good chap.

    “And then theres the rorting of his family trust to cheat the taxpayer out of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars?”

    Sorry, you obviously have information the rest of us don’t. Pray tell, if you’d be so kind. And don’t just simply repeat English’s history with that issue. He was in compliance with the rules at all times. I didn’t like it either, and thought at the time Blinglish was quite good. I’m past that now, and I’ve grown up. Character traits are reflected in long term actions. English passes that, most of Liarbore’s don’t.

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  40. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    it was actually a half a million that english ‘earned’…for pretending to live in dipton..

    ..did he pay it back..?..b.t.w..?

    ..that rather large misuse of ‘the credit card’…?

    ..and the (short) passage of time…

    ..makes that ‘ok’..eh reid..?

    (oh..!..and that was ‘over a long period’ of time..eh..?..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  41. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Walking the talk like theres a carrot up your arse makes for good posture, but it takes more than that to secure your seat at the head of table.

    What he should do is get one of those giant gatling guns like the Terminator uses and walk around with that. People would take him very seriously then.

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  42. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    “..that rather large misuse of ‘the credit card’…?..and the (short) passage of time…..makes that ‘ok’..eh reid..?”

    Er, yes? Is that the right answer, phil?

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  43. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    and..reid..what exactly are the ‘long-term character traits’ that are exhibited by a regime….

    ..that under which..

    ..nine people out of ten who apply for basic counselling after being raped/sexually abused…

    ..are refused..?

    ..eh..?

    what particular dark/fucken nasty ‘character trait’ is that..?

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  44. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    “what particular dark/fucken nasty ‘character trait’ is that..?”

    Yeah I’m not very happy about that particular policy either, phil. I guess they picked it because you have to start somewhere to manage the scheme. An insurance company can’t pay for everything, simple as that. So which things aren’t you going to pay for? One ACC rule I’ve always found idiotic and I don’t know if they still do it, is that they not only fund for current and intermediate but also long-term future liability, and if that’s the case, that’s just fucking nuts.

    Seen Commanding Heights yet?

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  45. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    Well pardon my ignorance reid, cos here was me thinkin Blinglish was just a southland farmer with a head for figures.

    His character traits show he’s got form on rorting and seems not to have learnt a thing since his housing scandal subsidy to advising PEDA ltd on how to secure public money unchallenged. That leads me to suggest his long term actions are to rip off the system for as much as he can get for himself and his mates as his current role will allow, all within the rules of course…

    so ummm yeah, pull the other one, it rings kind of hollow.

    But interestingly do you think Key is/was seasoned enough to be leader, given his reluctance to front the media without well rehearsed soundbites, his lack of facial control which renders his contempt and vulnerability visible and the fact he doesnt know when to shut up about personal shit ?

    Hardly leader material in my books.

    Conflating 2 separate issues ? Oh, you mean like tying Len Browns credit card spending to Labour’s in trying to block smear everyone with the same cheap shit reporting under the guise of accountability but really…

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  46. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    Your book is the ‘young socialists guide to collective farming’ though pollywog.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/442px-Kolkhozianos.jpg/220px-442px-Kolkhozianos.jpg

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  47. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    cos here was me thinkin Blinglish was just a southland farmer with a head for figures.

    Well aren’t you just the big silly then, pollywog.

    do you think Key is/was seasoned enough to be leader, given his reluctance to front the media without well rehearsed soundbites, his lack of facial control which renders his contempt and vulnerability visible and the fact he doesnt know when to shut up about personal shit ?

    Key is a different person to English, and yes, he is a leader. Apparently many people disagree with your analysis, given his poll ratings. Too bad people didn’t like Hulun quite as much. Isn’t that galling.

    Conflating 2 separate issues ? Oh, you mean like tying Len Browns credit card spending to Labour’s in trying to block smear everyone with the same cheap shit reporting under the guise of accountability but really…

    Yes that’s another separate issue. The clue is in the fact it’s a different person in a different political arena. All people who’ve been troughing need to do, is accept that we’re not their personal ATM. It’s been quite abusive being treated as such, and the nature of the expenditure is appalling and the excuses given for them weak. How could they ever have thought that any of it was justified? No-one I repeat no-one would ever treat their corporate credit card like that. They’d get fired immediately. So it’s not rocket science, is it.

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  48. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    [DPF: You think the public don't give a shit about the spending? I think around 100 unemployed former UK MPs would disagree with you]

    You think the public give a shit about 100 former UK MP’s on the dole ?

    actually, do you think the NZ public give a shit about a 100 UK anything ?

    I think the media inclusive of you would love the public to give a shit, but truth is, WE the public have better things to give a shit about.

    [DPF: You must be having a slow day. The UK public did give a shit. They sacked 100 or so MPs who rorted their expenses. As much as you would like it otherwise, the NZ public also do give a shit. If you think they do not, you live in a cocoon]

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  49. mattyroo (1,029 comments) says:

    I think that by Carter running off to Helen for advice shows he also has a contempt for Goff’s leadership. Him now saying that he will return to parliament next week, “because Helen told him to do so”, is a real one finger gesture to Goff, saying, you can’t boss me around and tell me to go home.

    It clearly shows Helen is still running one faction of the party – which to my mind isn’t a bad thing, because a lot of Labour voters out there will have nothing to do with Labour, whilst there is still an element of the bilious bitch in the mix.

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  50. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    Key is a different person to English,

    no shit Sherlock ?

    Apparently many people disagree with your analysis, given his poll ratings. Too bad people didn’t like Hulun quite as much. Isn’t that galling.

    Many people are informationally challenged. Deliberately dumbed down by the media and politicians. Most wouldn’t know spin when it’s swirling around them in the media everyday and probably think ‘bait and switch’ is something you do to catch a different type of fish.

    Helen and Cullen were of their time. That time has been and gone, and in that time they did bloody well up until Winston got involved. I would no longer wish any of them back than i would Goff to be the next PM or Key to be re elected but what’s a poor boy to do ?

    The clue is in the fact it’s a different person in a different political arena.

    You’re on a roll here bro, don’t let me slow ya down !

    For me, the clue is in right leaning media colluding with right leaning Manukau staff and National spinsters in trying to win the supercity mayoralty for the right leaning fatcat Banks, using the opportunistic excuse of public accountability over some trifling credit card expenses.

    same political arena, different names but the game remains the same. Left vs Right…*yawn*

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  51. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    If you guys were smart you’d leave Goff where he is. Someone with some brains comes along (Andrew Little has a few) there is plenty of opportunity to undermine National’s support.

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  52. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    @ polywog “Many people are informationally challenged”

    others have head up the collectives arse

    @ polywog “right leaning media colluding with right leaning Manukau staff and National spinsters in trying to win the supercity mayoralty for the right leaning fatcat Banks, using the opportunistic excuse of public accountability over some trifling credit card expenses”

    continuation of head up collective arse speak

    You and your crew haven’t realised that the landscape has changed, I know it’s been a quick change for y’all, only being flagged back during the accommodation allowance rorting saga, so will recap – the public do care about pollies stealing taxpayers dollars for personal expenses. Start there and then work on the ‘born to be in gummint’ delusions.

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  53. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    [DPF: You must be having a slow day. The UK public did give a shit. They sacked 100 or so MPs who rorted their expenses. As much as you would like it otherwise, the NZ public also do give a shit. If you think they do not, you live in a cocoon]

    slow day ?…yup you got that right. Grey and gloomy here in Nellyville :)

    but anyway, WE IMHO, the NZ public dont give a shit what the UK public give a shit about their troughing MP’s in as much as although we gave a shit about Blinglish rorting thousands out of the taxpayer for him to live in his own Welli house…

    He’s still controlling our purse strings and making it harder for the average Joe to succed/get ahead at the expense of serving up gifts in the form of taxcuts and budget gifts to his mates.

    It makes trifling credit card expenses by a former gov’t pale into insignificance. The fact that the mainstream media would rather wet themselves playing hide and seek with Chris Carter rather than keep the gov’t honest is a disgrace.

    don’t you think ?

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  54. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    …Helen and Cullen were of their time. That time has been and gone, and in that time they did bloody well…

    Yeah, that global commodities boom was really all cause of them, wasn’t it. The thing is pollywog, Hulun’s legacy is of transparent social engineering and a wasted opportunity to become debt-free, which we could have had with no pain whatsoever, if only Cullen could keep his hand away from the cookie jar. But he couldn’t and as a result of hugely expensive policies like the interest-free student loan, we have to now borrow $250m – is it weekly or monthly? It’s a lot, anyway. And the peculiar thing has been, that everytime they invested OUR money in major ways, it curiously ALWAYS seemed to specifically benefit their own base. Now wasn’t that good of them, and you can’t I’m afraid argue that they didn’t do that, because the facts are in, the jury has sat, and they are guilty as hell.

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  55. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    You and your crew haven’t realised that the landscape has changed,

    I dont have a crew or should that be clue ? Im just straight shooting from the hip.

    Sure the landscape has changed. You’d be a fool not to have noticed any flow on from the financial meltdown and economic reccession.

    Just like you’d be a fool to think theres not a concerted smear campaign against Len Brown and Chris Carter for reasons beyond reconciling questionable credit card spending.

    …and an even bigger fool to think Blinglishs ‘trickle down’ economic policies are gonna result in aything less than ‘the hard done by’ being pissed on from an even greater height by the ‘well to do’.

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  56. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Carter has made himself a cancer on Labour poll ratings. As long as he hangs around refusing to accept and acknowledge he was wrong, Key and National will stay way out in front.

    I think the voting public are absolutely concerned about public servant rorting. Many look upon this as theft, pure and simple. And they will vote accordingly. This is going to hit Labour right where it hurts – their working class support base.

    Carter’s (and Len Brown’s) sense of entitlement is sickening. A stint on the dole queue might help to wake him up to reality (yeah right)

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  57. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    Sorry polly, that was a bit ott.

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  58. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    everytime they invested OUR money in major ways, it curiously ALWAYS seemed to specifically benefit their own base.

    What base was that and whats wrong with transparent social engineering, whatever that means ?

    How is it any different to what the current gov’t is doing ?

    For me it comes down to motive and intent. I don’t trust that Key, English and co have noble intent or pure motives for anything they do supposedly in the publics interest.

    likewise, i think it’s pointless talking about Helen or Cullens motives or intent or even talking about them at all. If you stand looking towards the past, you’ve got your back to the future.

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  59. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    “Just like you’d be a fool to think theres not a concerted smear campaign against Len Brown and Chris Carter for reasons beyond reconciling questionable credit card spending.”

    Yes, perhaps they just should not have done it. I doubt there’d be any smearing, then. Was that a bit hard to do, was it? But I AM entitled, says Chris and Len as they battle it out with their other selves.

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  60. Chuck Bird (4,897 comments) says:

    This is going to hit Labour right where it hurts – their working class support base.

    That is a long time ago. The only party concerned about the elderly with no extra income having to go to bed early because then cannot afford to run a heater is ACT.

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  61. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..The only party concerned about the elderly with no extra income having to go to bed early because then cannot afford to run a heater is ACT…”

    hil-ar-i-ous…!

    if yr gonna tell a lie…

    may as well make it a whopper…!

    eh chucky..?…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  62. Chuck Bird (4,897 comments) says:

    Once again, he is arguing he did nothing wrong. Also overlooks the flowers were to his own partner.

    Carter also forgot extra charges to his hotel accounts including movies, the car hire in Oz, massages in Thailand and much more as Cam Slater has highlighted.

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  63. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    “What base was that”

    So let’s take the students, who also have parents and grandparents. There’s a tremendous number of students who vote left because they think it’s caring to do so. You don’t yet understand how things really work when you’re at uni. So when Liarbore announced this hugely expensive policy on the eve of the election, it got not only all of those well-meaning but completely naive people, it also got many of their parents and grandparents. It was a very smart move, but it’s a policy that fails to benefit the majority of people, and the timing was designed specifically around their own selfish electoral interests, for which we all pay for.

    “whats wrong with transparent social engineering, whatever that means”

    Social engineering is always bad when lefties do it, pollywog. That’s basic politics. What got my attention was in her late first or early second term, Hulun tried to tie early-childhood funding only to approved “education centres” and guess what they were going to be teaching? She had to back down on that but I thought at the time, there’s a prime example of large-scale lefty sleaze. That passed under most people’s radar but to me it was perfectly evident what her intent was. It’s the same as when Lange appointed himself Minister of Education when he was PM and started Tommorrow’s schools and all the PC psychobabble bullshit began to spew from teacher’s mostly naive minds.

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  64. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    big-picture leftie-conspiracy-stuff there..eh reid..?

    zombie-armies of brainwashed teachers….brainwashing our children..eh…?

    (woof..!..woof..!..eh..?..

    have you met chucky yet..?..)

    hil-ar-i-ous..!..(part 2..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  65. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    “big-picture leftie-conspiracy-stuff there..eh reid..?”

    phil, I’ve told you before I deal only in facts.

    You look up the press record of that childhood education incident and try to deny that Tommorrow’s Schools launched the never-ending-it-seems era of PC psychobabble spewing forth from teacher’s mostly naive mouths.

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  66. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    best to just cut funding to them..eh reid..?

    what should they be teaching..?

    those rand-ite fantases that fuel yr lot..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  67. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    phil, if you really think Ayn Rand is a hero to this generation of conservatives, you are so far off the mark I’m not sure where to begin.

    How’s Commanding Heights going?

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  68. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    so..solutions..?

    re-brainwash those teachers to ‘your way’..?

    d’yareckon..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz0

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  69. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    just who are the ‘heros’ ‘to this generation of conservatives’..there..reid…?

    douglas..?..reagan..?..bush..?..(both..?..)..thatcher..?

    btw..do you know how many thousands of people died from aids..’cos reagan pandered to his conservative-rump…

    ..and blocked any federal-funding of needle-exchange programs…?

    hmm..?

    ..directly responsible for those deaths,,,

    ..is reagan/american’ conservatives’

    ‘heros’..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  70. Caroline Castle (16 comments) says:

    Just had a look at the SST. Obviously Helen didn’t give him the advice she always took: the law of holes: when you’re in one, stop digging.

    Carter will bring Labour down. He has to go. The people do care about his travel expenses. I suppose the trips were in the school holidays so his partner could travel with him.

    Looking forward to reading during the week that Goff has at least booted him to the back bench.

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  71. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Douglas, Reagan and Thatcher ARE some of my heroes. I’m surprised you’ve never read anything I’ve ever said about either Bush – I’ve said quite a bit about both, over the years. And it’s all been consistent.

    phil, like I said, you don’t get it and you won’t until you watch Commanding Heights. How’s that going?

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  72. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    rightwing agit-prop..?

    pass..!

    reagan was/is a murderous fool..(cf..aids..just for starters..eh..?

    thatcher is a malignant/murdering/twisted personification of evil..

    and douglas…fucked new zealand…

    ..great ‘heroes’ you’ve got there reid…

    ..more anti-heroes..?..aren’t they…?

    ..really..?

    just going on their records/’works’..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  73. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    At the very least, preferred PM support for Goff will double

    If it doubles he’s irrelevant.
    If it halves he’s irrelevant.
    If it is unchanged he’s irrelevant.
    .. bottom line is this: he’s irrelevant.

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  74. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    Phil – whilst I won’t resort to the same language as you, Douglas is far less responsible for the state of New Zealand in 2010 as the legions of those who have CHOSEN not to be productive.

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  75. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    just going on their records/’works’..

    phil, you’ve given nothing to this country, and remain an economic and social parasite. the troughing of Carter et al pale in comparison to the year-on-year theft you perpetuate.

    perhaps the time for you to so vehemently criticise others is after you’ve got off your lazy, drug infested ass and earned an honest living ie no welfare, no bags of Jamaica’s finest, no armed holdups… chosing instead a lifestyle that shows dignity and respect for your fellow NZer, while setting a good example for you son.

    I guess that’s too much to hope for, but miracles do happen.

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  76. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..Douglas is far less responsible for the state of New Zealand in 2010 as the legions of those who have CHOSEN not to be productive…”

    shit..! i hadn’t noticed benificiaries flogging off our countries assets to rightwing scumbags..

    was he complicit..?

    or just a pawn/fool..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  77. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    christian fascists making moral judgments on sole-parents….etc..

    that’s novel..!

    and..you’d be one of those deeply morally confused ‘christians’..

    whose ‘care for the foetus/unborn’…

    ..ceases/ends at time of birth..

    after that..they can just rot in the gutter..eh..?

    you are bit too far down..to be making any moral-judgments…

    ..’miracles’..indeed..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  78. American Gardener (556 comments) says:

    Perhaps Carter sees nothing wrong with what he has done ? He may well feel it is simply fair compensation for the sacrifices he made to fulfill his role as a servant of the people. Long periods from home.

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  79. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Perhaps Carter sees nothing wrong with what he has done ?”

    He doesn’t and that’s the problem. Another arrogant amoral commie.

    And he’s no servant of mine. I wouldn’t let him in my front gate. (Or should that be the back door?)

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  80. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    carter needs to just fuck right off..basically…

    bring on a bye-election..!

    ..i say..!

    hold the bastards to account…

    show/emphasise for key..his one-term future…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  81. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    phil, have taken comment to GD

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  82. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Douglas’s contribution needs to be seen both in the context of what was there before, and to this day. On both those measures he’s been one of the most outstanding politicians of our lifetime, and this is why.

    In 1984 when he came to power, Douglas was facing a highly regulated Keynesian economy geared toward big govt which owned most utilities and a lot of infrastructure. This was also the case in both the UK and the US. Carter was overseeing an economic disaster with the oil-shock coming on top of a highly-regulated market environment while Thatcher was dealing with the state-run coal miners.

    Douglas single-handedly elevated NZ to the top of the fast movers list with respect to implementing Friedrich Hayek’s economic theories which stressed the importance of governance over ownership. It wasn’t necessary for the govt to run all these things likes mines and electricity and phone etc and besides it makes it difficult because you get tricky situations like cutting off someone’s power so you have soft policies in a lot of areas which make the whole thing altogether inefficient, which if you drop the sentiment, simply means the outcomes are slower, there are less of them, they cost more, and they’re lower quality, and this is quite provable.

    And what he did then has proven over time and you can’t deny it, to have resulted in a quite benign and efficient environment where things happen and no-one gets to suffer undue hardship anywhere at all in our multi-layered and varied society. I mean, living example, how’s that roof over your head, your food in the fridge and your internet connection working out for you, phil? Is it nice and comfy or is it like some Dickensian debtor’s prison where we’ve thrown you?

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  83. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    carter personifies all that was wrong with clarks’ tilt at a rightwing labour-lite labour government..

    this is why he ..and his ilk…have to go…

    ..so the labour party can be re-claimed/restored…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  84. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    ..and blocked any federal-funding of needle-exchange programs…?

    hmm..?

    ..directly responsible for those deaths

    I gotta call you on this, how about those people accepting the consequences of using illegal substances?

    not that it has anything to do with Koru Club’s contrition, mind.

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  85. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..And what he did then has proven over time and you can’t deny it, to have resulted in a quite benign and efficient environment where things happen and no-one gets to suffer undue hardship anywhere at all in our multi-layered and varied society…”

    big-fucken-lie-time…eh..?

    we have gone from being the most egalitarian country in the world..

    to one where the gap between rich and poor is one of the largest in the developed world..

    we have a permanent-underclass….riven with crime/poverty/ill-health/bad-diets…

    ..and our rivers/streams are full of shit…

    and raw sewerage pours into the harbours of our major cities/towns…

    the clark version of labour must accept some responsibility for all that..

    and must become the agent of the changes needed to turn all of that around…

    the fucken conservatives never..

    this fucken mess suits them..

    ‘cos they are sitting high on the shit-pile..

    ..and making fist-fulls of money..

    ..at our/the environments’ cost..

    as i said..

    carter..and a few others..

    ..have to fucken go..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  86. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    Phil – did I mention you, or sole parents specifically? Then again, if the cap fits …

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  87. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..I gotta call you on this, how about those people accepting the consequences of using illegal substances?..”

    are you talking about fucken pot again..?

    reality-check…!

    pot has never killed anyone…got that..?

    alcohol kills thousands every year…not to mentionall the other shit that goes with it..

    what’s yr poison..?..guv..?

    fucken hypocrite..!

    aren’t a christian fascist are you..?

    they fucken mainline hypocrisy..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  88. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    Phil,
    I was unaware that you can use needles with pot, but I defer to your infinitely superior experience in this field.

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  89. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    I honestly wish you guys would stop pandering to this jerkoff. He’s suffering a mental disease (NPD) and should not be taunted this way.

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  90. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    “we have a permanent-underclass….riven with crime/poverty/ill-health/bad-diets…”

    And who’s fault is that, phil? Is it their fault? Does their own attitude condemn them and their children to a lifetime of it? Or are they, unlike any other human beings on earth, permanently encased by evil capitalists 24/7/365 who control their every thought, thus preventing them completely from ever elevating themselves from those wretched hell-holes they call their life?

    I know that DARPA has been working on such a device, but I’m not allowed to talk about it. I must check to see if they’ve begun the tests.

    NPD, RB?

    BTW, I truly never do this with phil to taunt, I really think he has some interesting points. Sometimes.

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  91. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    so..wtf were you talking about..if not pot..?

    oh..!..i get it..!..they ‘deserved’ to get aids…

    because they ‘used illegal substances’..eh..

    ooh…!..aren’t you a ‘sweetie’..?..

    ..eh..?

    the milk of fucken human kindness well and truly passed you bye..

    ..eh..?

    a christian fascist are you..?

    you are displaying all the requisites…

    (sneering contempt/disregard for those suffering..being your forte..?..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  92. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    go on red..!..back to yr laz-ee-boy..!..eh..?

    yr bum-print awaits/calls…?

    and how are the greasy-cuffed cardies..?

    ..and the lank comb-over..?

    ..and the trackies..eh..?

    it must be nearly talkback time..

    off ya go..!

    your audience awaits..

    been banned from many…?

    (and hey..!..about time you gave that screen a wipe..eh..?..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  93. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    deserved… maybe, maybe not…. but they did have a choice

    Same as Carter, put himself between a rock and a hard place.

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  94. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    so..just to tighten the focus here..you approve of reagan not funding needle-exchange programs..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  95. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    NPD

    Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    Phil knows its true.

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  96. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    I approve of don’t do drugs

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  97. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    do you use alcohol..?

    do you drink coffee..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  98. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    sofitd

    sad old fuck in tauranga disorder..

    red-bum-biter ‘knows its(sic) true’..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  99. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    No, I dont use alcohol, and I prefer Milo.

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  100. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    Reid: earlier you mentioned English’s finance training. One of the first things he’ll tell you is his lack of training in finance and economics. Which continues a long tradition of ministers of finance like that. Not only do they lack any training in this area, it is a badge of honour for senior politicians. Sadly I think that says something about the country, or at least its electorate.

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  101. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Who really cares about the socialist turds? I hope the pricks take to each other with gay abandon. Philin is weak as weasel piss, Chrissy should grow up, for fuck sake how old is the “man”. Shit the dole lines can handle a few more wasters.

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  102. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    And now it looks like Key has backed English view of events leading up to the rewarding of 4.8 million dollars to his freshie mates at PEDA LTD.

    http://pacificeyewitness.com/2010/06/19/prime-minister-john-key-blames-te-heuheu-bill-english-on-morning-reportaudio/

    English take on events being, blame Georgina Te Heu Heu for not discretely following up on his dodgy ol boy deals in the backroom and throwing him into the limelight.

    If we were to apply UK standards for serial troughers and incompetent politicking English would have been gone long ago.

    So someone tell me again why we still suffer the fool ?

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  103. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Yeah well so far English hasn’t let me down, ben. If he does I’ll be disappointed.

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  104. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    As long as you’re sweet then reid…

    …and fuck everyone else ?

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  105. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Deleted by author before it was too late…

    …thanks…

    …bye…

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  106. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    …and fuck everyone else ?

    I certainly hope so, pollywog. I think I’ll get me one of those terminator gatlings myself. The ammo’s a bit heavy but by leaving out the mercury-tip rounds I should manage OK. I think I’ll just leave it propped up against the wall, so everyone can see it when they walk in. I’m hoping this will lead to less personal criticism and laughter behind my back.

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  107. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..and I prefer Milo…”

    do you lose any sleep over the fact yr ‘milo’ was harvested by child-slaves..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  108. big bruv (13,932 comments) says:

    “do you lose any sleep over the fact yr ‘milo’ was harvested by child-slaves..?”

    Do you lose any sleep knowing that hard working Kiwis are grafting hard all week so you can sit on your backside doing nothing?

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  109. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    Like shooting fish in a barrel isn’t it big bruv

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  110. big bruv (13,932 comments) says:

    IV2

    It is the arrogance that gets me, Phool always talks about the gap between the rich and the poor as if he has some god given right to be wealthy when the reality is that the very people he pretends to care about are the ones he steals from every week.

    As we all know, the uber rich are not the ones who finance Phools lifestyle, he (Phool) is stealing from the battlers.

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  111. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    I think I’ll get me one of those terminator gatlings myself. I’m hoping this will lead to less personal criticism and laughter behind my back.

    heh…i wouldn’t trust myself not to do something outrageous with it

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  112. trout (939 comments) says:

    Carter’s comment in the SST are an open challenge to Goff. ‘ Sounds like – ‘Mummy has said you shouldn’t bully me’ but the underlying message is ‘you do not have the numbers to sack me’. Big H and probably H2 have been firing texts off the Darren et al to gauge support. Carter has more support in the Labour caucus than is appreciated, and now has Helen’s endorsement. Goff was always to be a ‘fill-in’, the end of his leadership is nigh if he cannot deal with this.

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  113. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..so you can sit on your backside doing nothing?..”

    gee..!..36 new stories/links on http://whoar.co.nz/ today..

    i wonder who did that…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  114. Comrade Greenie (31 comments) says:

    big bruv… as strange as this may seem you have a very good point regarding phil.

    Goff is in all honestly a pushover and at this point in time the whole labour party is a pushover.

    pity…

    Since now when we actually need a decent opposition to a government that intends to sell off state owned assets we have a whole load of fuck all.

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  115. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    gee..!..36 new stories/links on whore today

    Yeah, but how many comments?

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  116. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    Oops, my bad.

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  117. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    so..leonidas…the chocolate/child slavery question…?

    ‘oops..!’..indeed…eh..?

    and definitely your ‘bad’…eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  118. Manolo (13,838 comments) says:

    gee..!..36 new stories/links on whore today. Yeah, but how many comments?

    0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.
    The news agreggator, aka the bludger, must be very busy answering the torrent of comments. Actually, any excuse is good for him to justify being a parasite.

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  119. Comrade Greenie (31 comments) says:

    philu

    I have no other option but to suggest you spend the taxpayers money you recieve on some more conventional drugs to make your language more understandable…

    as it is I’m wondering wtf you are smoking now. can I have some?

    seriously… string a damn sentence together.

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  120. slightlyrighty (2,475 comments) says:

    I thought NPD was Needless Punctuation Disorder.

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  121. reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Thanks, slightlyrighty. I suspect many of us have been wondering what it was.

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  122. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    death to the twin-tyrannies of sentences….and their bloated big brother..paragraphs….

    ..ridiculous strictures driven by the cost of paper/printing…

    ..set yr words free…!

    ..eh…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  123. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    Some entrepreneurial hemophiliac could cease the moment and put out a new toilet paper range onto the market… called CaterWipes.

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  124. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    was that ‘needles punctuation disorder’…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  125. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “…could cease the moment..”

    heh..!

    (the involuntary humour provided by the functionally illiterate…eh..?

    very non-p.c…i know….

    ..but funny….

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  126. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    Well, Phil, what about your enslavement of the NZ tax payer?
    You take a substantial slice of their money that they have no choice about, unless you have private insurance?
    what about them?
    don’t you owe them something?
    why don’t you start with some gratitude?
    eh?…..

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  127. Barnsley Bill (983 comments) says:

    When are we going to stop fucking about and actually tell the truth about this situation? Carter had to take his partner on his trips. Clark knew this and authorised it.
    I am sick of everybody dancing around an issue that everybody in Labour knows about and has spread around the traps far and wide.

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  128. American Gardener (556 comments) says:

    Why did Carter “have” to take his partner ?

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  129. big bruv (13,932 comments) says:

    Yeah Bill…..why did he have to take his partner?

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  130. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    Well, imagine the “extra’s” he may have charged if he didn’t have his Kaiser on tap.

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  131. Barnsley Bill (983 comments) says:

    Trust issues

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  132. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    @ Barnsley, that explains a lot

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  133. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    so..we can take it from yr glib reply..

    that you couldn’t care less if yr milo was picked by child slaves…(some as young as seven…)

    ..eh..?

    sorta fits with yr morally bankrupt/greed-driven politics..

    ..eh..?..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  134. Barnsley Bill (983 comments) says:

    Leonidas. It explains almost everything.
    Behaving like previously poor lotto winners these teachers have gone from a good income to the ability to enjoy a fantastic lifestyle without working for it. The pathetic wretches fall apart once the money is gone.

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  135. Leonidas (1,434 comments) says:

    Phuck you’re phuckin phunny phool.

    Morally bankrupt?, greedy?, you’re the one sitting on your arse collecting a handout, you ungrateful phuck! then you have the nerve to criticize those who pay your way, you’re the phucking hypocrite here phool. Been taking lessons from Koru Club have we?

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  136. big bruv (13,932 comments) says:

    Poor old Goff, I see that he has said that he does not think Chris Carter running off to Mummy is a threat to his leadership.

    The man is deluding himself, it is now clear that the homosexual wing of the party is calling the shots, if Goff has any self respect left he must resign.

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  137. Manolo (13,838 comments) says:

    “it is now clear that the homosexual wing of the party is calling the shots”

    It’s been like that for many years. To the unionist’s faction despair, the Rainbow branch of socialist Labour has a firm grip on power, and will be difficult to dislodge.

    On the other hand, Goff wants to avoid confrontation. His days are numbered.

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  138. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..you’re the phucking hypocrite here phool..”

    nah..!..sorry..!..that’s you…

    from yr high moral-pedestal…

    ..you are au fait with people dying of aids..from dirty needles..(‘cos they shouldn’t use illegal drugs..’)..

    ..as yr defense of the murderous-fool reagan…(!)

    ….and you care not a fuck…that the chocolate you eat…

    ..is proven to be farmed/harvested by/using child/slaves..

    ..of course yr a fucken hypocrite…

    ..how cd you not be..?..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  139. snowy (108 comments) says:

    Aw fuck

    Who left the back door open?

    That magpie Philu is hard to get rid of

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