NZEI on National Standards

July 20th, 2010 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

I thought readers may enjoy this helpful newsletter form the on .

NZEI and NS

The part that is of most significance is the statement that NZEI believes there are clear links between National Standards and the position the Ministry has taken in the primary teacher and principal bargaining.

What this means is that the NZEI is going to go on strike unless they get a massive pay increase as “compensation” for national standards.

It’s never really been about national standards. No one could seriously think they are a bad thing to do. It’s all about league tables and pay.

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29 Responses to “NZEI on National Standards”

  1. kiwiteen123 (8 comments) says:

    Is that Paul Henry’s Stephenie Mills?

    [DPF: Yes, but please focus on the issue of national standards, not individual employees of NZEI]

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  2. YesWeDid (1,002 comments) says:

    Admit it DPF, you don’t know what the f&*K you are talking about when it comes to national standards, you are just parroting the National Party policy mixed in with your own anti-union bias.

    [DPF: Why don't you try making a substantive point]

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  3. questlove (241 comments) says:

    “It’s never really been about national standards. No one could seriously think they are a bad thing to do. It’s all about league tables and pay.”

    Yeah that’s a pretty big call.

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  4. ben (2,385 comments) says:

    Would be interesting to quantify just how much damage education unions alone have done to New Zealand by raising education costs and lowering quality. Probably $billions in PV terms, taking into account the lower education standards they have produced. All in the name of ‘fairness’. Hell of a bargaining chip is our kids’ futures.

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  5. Komata (966 comments) says:

    Ah, but Ben, you’ve missed the point lad – it’s all about ‘equality’ and ‘equal opportunity’. Can’t have anyone doing better than anyone else (especially it the ‘anyone else’ has a suntan). It’s what the socialists hate old chap – someone actually succeeding and doing well. Don’t forget ‘all men are equal’ (at least according to Marx – and then only when it suits), and success is an absolute anthema to those of the left – and they’ve just had at least 12 years to make try and ensure that the evil weed called ‘success’ is killed-off.

    Sadly, the children don’t matter – the ideology does. As you may have noticed, in the socialist world, ‘all men are equal’ – and the NZEI will have another pay rise (thankyou) to ensure that they remain equal to everyone else – otherwise they are going to feel terribly ‘unequal’ and ‘left out’. It would be so ‘un-fair’ if that were to happen wouldn’t it? So ‘un’ equal.

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  6. mpledger (428 comments) says:

    For me, since I am not a teacher, the renumeration aspect doesn’t matter to me. And I still dislike National Standards for the same reasons the NZEI are talking about….

    However, since I am a statisician, I can see how fundamentally flawed it is to base teacher remuneration on national standards results. It’s lunacy …
    1) to reward teachers for test results when teacher’s are not randomly assigned to pupils and teacher’s often have only a moderate choice about what school they teach at,
    2) to try and compare results when teachers are using three different types of tests and each type has it’s own test bank and
    3) to not have any kind of moderation to check that schools are all testing to the same level.

    It’s a policy that’s been showen to have negative consequences when it’s been used overseas – in Britains where the curriculum has narrowed, in the USA where there has been rampant cheating and very little improvement in test scores and in Australia where private schools performed badly (and you know that’s just not the reality of the quality of the schools).

    And even though when national testing it is done right, it doesn’t work, New Zealand has gone for some quick, cheap and nasty way of trying to do it.

    I can understand why teachers worry that government are going to use their position as wage payers to force them to use a stupid system – that’s the leverage the govt holds and it would be silly for the teachers to not be aware of it.

    [DPF: national standards are not national testing]

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  7. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    Admit it DPF, you don’t know what the f&*K you are talking about when it comes to national standards, you are just parroting the National Party policy mixed in with your own anti-union bias.

    To quote Toad: We Won, You Lost – Eat THAT!

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  8. lastmanstanding (1,154 comments) says:

    Right So the teachers and their supporters view is as follows

    Teachers cant be judged on the results of their efforts to teach.

    Teachers should be paid a set renumeration and not be subject to any performance review because of the above.

    Teachers are “different” to everyone else. Its not possible to determine their ability by reference to any outcomes.

    Well blow me down with a feather.

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  9. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    “A lot of our students start behind the ‘norm’ and we work hard with them to lift their achievement. My Board and I are concerned about how data from National Standards will be used. Our priority is to support teaching and learning, not to demoralise schools and children’s confidence by ‘naming and shaming’ them in simplistic league tables.
    – Karl Vasau, Principal, Holy Family School, Porirua

    LEAGUE TABLES are the crux of the problem. Minister Tolley has said there will be none [officially], but media will be able to collate information and construct these themselves for those parents who have the need [as they do now with reputations of Auckland secondary schools] to rate the school their child attends, or will attend. A flow-on effect from league tables to teacher performance is what teachers fear.

    And there is of course situations where the best of teachers have a class of 15 new entrants, 12 of whom are Maori, and NONE of them will met the National Standards levels for their age. The NZEI upfront will say the reflection on those children is unacceptable, and ALSO the reflection on the teacher is unacceptable.

    It is about standards AND league tables AND pay.

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  10. RKBee (1,344 comments) says:

    It’s all about league tables and pay… then Little is the best man for them..

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  11. db.. (78 comments) says:

    Note the similarity of mindset, openness and honesty matching Climate Science and the Specialists that control the Teaching profession.

    Taxpayers use your Vote wisely.
    Parents just weep for your children, as I do.

    db..

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  12. YesWeDid (1,002 comments) says:

    lastmanstanding – I’ll put it into simple terms so that you can understand.

    Imagine you are a rugby coach and you totally randomly get 15 people you have to coach into a team. You get no say over who you get but your ability as a coach is totally judged on how well your team does. Doesn’t seem fair does it?

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  13. Lucia Maria (1,983 comments) says:

    This will be interesting.

    I’m so glad I home-school.

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  14. slightlyrighty (2,448 comments) says:

    Yes We Did.

    Your Rugby analogy makes no sense.

    All schools have randomly assigned students. Within decile ratings, some classes do better, some do worse. The main variable is not the students, it’s the teacher.

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  15. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    Here is the conspiracy theory – literacy numeracy conspiracy, that is –
    “If the public system is perceived as failing we are softened up for privatisation.”
    http://www.handsupforlearning.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NatStandardsposter.pdf

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  16. Lucia Maria (1,983 comments) says:

    Yvette,

    My theory is that National Standards are just a vehicle for increasing Government control over education through monitoring children from a younger age than has been previously possible. Once the system is in place, it can be used for other things. It’s a natural by-product of computerisation.

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  17. Jimbob (639 comments) says:

    If we had a Labour Government in for the next ten years, all we would have left in New Zealand would be the Labour party, national parks and teachers.

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  18. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    slightlyrightly – “All schools have randomly assigned students.”

    No, some schools [Taupo, for example] have 75% Maori children.

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  19. Nick R (443 comments) says:

    A couple of points. First, it is quite possible to be in favour of national standards, but oppose the standards that are being introduced for example, on the grounds that they are badly designed or rushed. Only a moron would suggest that everyone must support the current standards. In the real world people will disagree vehemently, and it is disingenuous to attribute a corrupt motive to anyone who doesn’t toe the party line. It suggests an unwillingness to debate the merits, or an unquestioning support for the Govenment. This is lazy.

    Second – why the hell shouldn’t the NZEI lobby for better pay for its members? That’s its damn job. And if the Government decides to lumber teachers with new administrative burdens it is predictable that they will ask to be paid more to do them.

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  20. lastmanstanding (1,154 comments) says:

    YesWe Did

    Let me explain it for you.

    At the start of the year you apply a test to measure where the students are on the scale.

    At the end of the year you apply a test to measure where the students are on the scale.

    You then compare the results to a standard to determine whether the teacher has progressed both individuals and the group to a point that is either above or below the standard.

    Its not rocket science. It can be done. The only problem is that teachers dont want to tested which is the supreme irony for me as they are in the business if testing their students.

    This is where they fall down.

    They dont have applied to them that which they apply to their students.

    Now how dumb arse and cynical is that sort of behaviour.

    Do as we say not as we do is the teachers mantra

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  21. Inventory2 (9,788 comments) says:

    Kiwiteen said

    Is that Paul Henry’s Stephenie Mills?

    It is indeed. It’s also the same Stephanie Mills whom the Wanganui Chronicle quoted as a “concerned parent” back in March, without disclosing that the said “Stephanie Mills – concerned parent” was also Stephanie Mills, Communications Director for the NZEI. To compound their initial error, the Chronic later published an explanation that they were aware who Ms Mills was, but interviewed her as a parent and not as a NZEI staffer with a vested interest in opposing National Standards.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/03/wanganui-chronicle-fail.html

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  22. Hollyfield (67 comments) says:

    YesWeDid (100) Says:
    …….Imagine you are a rugby coach and you totally randomly get 15 people you have to coach into a team. You get no say over who you get but your ability as a coach is totally judged on how well your team does. Doesn’t seem fair does it?

    The coach could be judged (and rewarded with higher pay) based on his effort and dedication, his ability to motivate his players, to encourage his players to do their best, to instigate programmes that ensure his players are eager to turn up to training sessions and train to their best of their ability (whatever level of ability they have), by how much his randomly selected players improve (both in effort and achievement) between the start and the end of the season. Of course, his players would need to be tested against some sort of standards to see how much they improve as a group over the course of a season.

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  23. fatman43us (165 comments) says:

    Its very simple – Parents should control education. While the NZEI and PPTA exist parents will never get further than cooking the scones. Put Teachers’ pay into the parents hands and it all – from the NZEI down changes.

    That is what we need.

    Wobbly Key will never be able to do it; therefore we are doomed to another generation of mediocrity.

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  24. Tauhei Notts (1,509 comments) says:

    I told the NZEI representative on the Board of Trustees some years ago;
    “Teachers striking for the good of the childrens’ education is like fucking for virginity.”
    The Chair (or was it the couch?) of the Board objected to my choice of language.

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  25. BeaB (1,945 comments) says:

    Number 1 NZEI is a lobbyist for teacher pay and conditions.
    Number 2 When they oppose things it’s because they want leverage for upping said pay and conditions and
    Number Three They HATE accountability.
    High shcools teaxhers are held publicly accountable every year for three years with NCEA. Primary teachers have eight years of taxpayer funded time, no accountability at all and send far too many kids to high school woefully ill-prepared. A child who can’t read at age level is doomed to failure once they leave happy dappy primary land.
    That we have to have to fund remedial reading (Now called literacy or some other tosh) classes at high school says it all.
    If I were Tolley I’d introduce a national literacy and numeracy test at the end of Year 6 and any kids who hadn’t been properly taught would have Years 7 and 8 for intensive teaching so they can cope with high shcool subjects.
    Believe me, it’s all about the teacher.

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  26. muppet (42 comments) says:

    This fellow is supposed to be a leading academic on NZ education…take a look, this is the mindset of a so-called leading expert on NZ education. FFS. I really like how he looks at this objectively and uses his “expertise” to offer alternatives…not.

    http://www.lesterflockton.co.nz/press/?cat=14

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  27. muppet (42 comments) says:

    Oh, BeaB…spot on.

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  28. bc (1,251 comments) says:

    DPF “No one could seriously think they (National Standards) are a bad thing to do.”

    Now I’m pretty sure you are not ignorant about this issue, so I can only conclude that you are toeing the party line. In fact a lot of people do seriously think that National Standards are a bad thing to do.
    How about John hattie for starters? John Key and Anne Tolley were saying he is an internationally expert in the field of education (which he is) until he started talking about the damage that National Standards can do to children. Key and Tolley don’t talk about him any more.

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  29. bc (1,251 comments) says:

    Oh and another thing – why is it not unreasonable for NZEI on behalf of its members to include the administration of National Standards as part of their wage bargaining?
    If any other worker took on extra duties and responsibilities of course they would use that when negotiating their contract. Why are teachers any different? Teachers are currently renegoitiating their employment contract so of course National Standards are going to be used as part of that negotiations. It would be naive to think otherwise.
    Note the emotive language too – according to DPF the teachers are going to go on strike if they don’t get a “massive” pay increase. Really? Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

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