Apology demanded for jokes

September 27th, 2010 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

The Daily Telegraph reports that a London borough is warning against mother-in-law jokes as they are “offensively sexist” and ageist.

Sigh. They should watch Southpark, if they really want to see offensive .

and back home, the Dom Post reports:

Islamic community leaders have written to Prime Minister John Key demanding Building Minister Maurice Williamson apologise for jokes he made about Muslims.

The Federation of Islamic Associations New Zealand sent the letter more than a week ago but has yet to receive a response. At the time Mr Key played down the jokes, saying Mr Williamson was known for his humour.

President Anwar Ghani said New Zealand Muslims were “very upset” about the intolerant remarks and were happy the federation was raising it officially.

I’ve often praised the Federation, for their moderate leadership. I think they play a constructive role in NZ society.

But on this issue, I think they are being rather too precious. Let us look at the two jokes Maurice told.

The first was a weather joke about how it was sunni in the morning, and shiite in the afternoon.  Now the joke is very lame, but it certainly can’t be offensive. It is merely a play on how two well known sub-sets of sound.

The second was a joke aimed at both Kiwis and Muslims, saying Kiwis get stoned and committ adultery and Muslims commit adultery and then get stoned.

Now I well accept that many Muslims may have found that joke distasteful. But why? Because, there is a degree of truth to it. In Iran, a woman is facing death by stoning for adultery – underIslamic sharia law.

What is truly offensive is that Iran is planning to do this. Not that on the other side of the world, a joke was made about it.  Should not the anger be directed at Iran for bring Islam into disrespute by such barbaric practices?

Has the NZ Federation of Islamic Associations written to the Iranian Government urging them not to stone the woman to death? Wouldn’t that be far more productive than shooting the messenger?

There is one mildly unfortunate part of the joke – it suggests Kiwis and Muslims are two seperate groups, and of course they are not. There are many proud Kiwi Muslims. But it was a joke, not a speech. Like billboards, you can’t always be precise in a limited space, and the wording is sort of necessary for the joke.Maybe it would have been better as a joke about Australians and Iranians?

But please let us not turn our MPs into drones who are too scared to have a sense of humour.

It is good to be able to laugh at yourself. Compare these two responses to cartoons.

The response to the Danish cartoons featuring Mohammod, was death threats, violent protests, burnings etc.

Th Iranian President then decided to launch a cartoon competition about the Holocaust. He hoped it would show the West is hypocritical. But he was disappointed. Rather than try to stop his cartoon competition, scores and scores of Israeli and Jewish cartoonists entered it. A brilliant response, which totally undermined what the Iranian President tried to do.

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123 Responses to “Apology demanded for jokes”

  1. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    Rather than try to stop his cartoon competition, scores and scores of Israeli and Jewish cartoonists entered it

    One Israeli artist announced: “We’ll show the world we can do the best, sharpest, most offensive Jew hating cartoons ever published! No Iranian will beat us on our home turf!”

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  2. CHFR (229 comments) says:

    Oh wow just when the race card was maxed out these idiots find the Islamic Card.

    News flash one thing that differentiates us from other animals is the ability to laugh at ourselves.

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  3. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Tell the precious little petals that if living in the west offends them then its not the west that needs to get on a plane.

    Its does need to learn to say no though. Useful word, try it out some time.

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  4. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    The Religion of Perpetual Outrage. They want an apology with their sub-text that if it is not forthcoming Muslims might get “angry”. We all know what happens when Muslims get angry. BOOM.

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  5. Sam (502 comments) says:

    “Now I well accept that many Muslims may have found that joke distasteful. But why? Because, there is a degree of truth to it. In Iran, a woman is facing death by stoning for adultery – underIslamic sharia law.”

    Actually, Muslims do not interpret Sharia law the same way universally (let a lone practice the fundamentalist aspects of it). Williamson’s joke is akin to saying all Maori are wife-beaters because a few are.

    Don’t you mean the ability to laugh at others?

    Pretty funny huh?

    The joke might have been less offensive if it applied to Iranians rather than the Muslim culture as a whole. Anyway, it really is pretty bad judgement from a government minister, whichever way you look at it.

    And…

    “News flash one thing that differentiates us from other animals is the ability to laugh at ourselves.”

    [DPF: Of course not all of Islam says that you should stoen adulterers. But in this case an actual Islamic Government has allowed such a sentence to be pronounced]

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  6. Sam (502 comments) says:

    oops – cut’n’pasted in the wrong place above – the second part should read thus:

    And…

    “News flash one thing that differentiates us from other animals is the ability to laugh at ourselves.”

    Don’t you mean the ability to laugh at others?

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  7. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I’ve often praised the Federation, for their moderate leadership. I think they play a constructive role in NZ society.”

    Fool fool fool. Give em an inch, next time they want a mile.

    Good link.

    Bit by bit, they’ll eventually own the farm. If we let it happen.

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  8. wreck1080 (3,917 comments) says:

    Speaking of muslims and the minorities controlling the majority.

    The local primary school has just cancelled halloween, and, christmas too. Might offend someone you see. So, no christmas decorations at my 7 year olds school this year.

    I cannot understand why christian based western societies are so embarrassed by their culture.

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  9. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Show me where their unique right to go through life without being offended is enshrined in our law Sam.

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  10. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Change school wreck. Join the fast growing industry of home schooling.

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  11. k.jones (210 comments) says:

    i always thought for something to be “humourous” it had to be funny? Williamson is to humour, what Anne Tolley is to Pole dancing….

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  12. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    all a load of codswallop.

    When The Federation of Islamic Associations New Zealand apologies for Sharia law being wicked and abusing the basic rights of women and non-Muslims then we should give them the time of day.

    John Key as the Prime Minister of a liberal Democracy should ask them for that as a basis for even writing to him.

    John Key could also ask to see their condemnations of violence and suicide bombing in the name of Allah and Islam every time it has happen. oops they haven’t, wonder why?

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  13. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Mike, wonder why you don’t you condemn spouse domination abuse and sex abuse by Christians every time it happens?

    There should be an apology – from whoever made the “joking” public in the first place, surely knowing it would likely stir things up. It should have remained a private event. The Federation of Islamic Associations New Zealand have just (unwisely) taken the bait and made it more of an issue,

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  14. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    k.jones and could you direct me the government agency that evlauates what is funny please.

    You’re in the realm of the the subjective. In fact the joke was more offensive to kiwis. But where not making home vidoes of hand hacking so no one is worried about pissing us off.

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  15. k.jones (210 comments) says:

    “k.jones and could you direct me the government agency that evlauates what is funny please.”

    Cheif of Staff, Prime Minister’s office, as a general rule.

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  16. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    You’re choosing something when you emigrate to New Zealand. Life in a fervent Islamist state is in option that is available elsewhere.

    We don’t kill you for believing in the wrong God here, but we don’t stop what we’re doing and bow to Mecca 5 times a day either. (You are free to do the latter if you wish.)

    They have the right to ask for an apology. But they should be told NO.

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  17. Bob R (1,375 comments) says:

    ***I cannot understand why christian based western societies are so embarrassed by their culture.***

    Blame Hitler. Western societies have veered away from any kind of cultural pride since he came along. He paved the way for extreme multiculturalism. Views recognising that western societies have some valuable traditions, or that other cultures may not be compatible with western ones, tend to get linked back to his murderous extremism. For example, the German banker Thilo Sarrazin created considerable controversy recently pointing out assimilation problems with some Muslim migrants. The instinctive reaction of many was to call him a nazi.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=186775

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  18. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “There should be an apology”

    You give it then. After all you spend all day and almost every day on here as a sneaking and cowardly apologist for almost every evil out there.

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  19. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    I cannot understand why christian based western societies are so embarrassed by their culture.

    Please define “christian based”. I love the western heritage of classical music and art, but I don’t have God or Jesus in my life.

    Come to think of it, please also define “so embarrassed by”. The last time I looked, ANZAC day dawn service attendance was increasing…

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  20. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    I never got an apology for being called a rich PRICK. that wasnt even a joke.

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  21. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    But Murray, when a European male kills and dismembers the mother of his own child we don’t declare war on all European males do we?

    Also, I would be interested in perusing the actual wording of the letter and see if the use of the word “demanding” is a media beat up.

    But really, DPF seems to be advocating that we should construct a relationship with Muslims in New Zealand that reflects the same level of rapport as betwen Iran and Israel i.e. animosity and constant conflict, to put it mildly. So helpful.

    Minorities everywhere are far more sensitive to jokes at their expense by the majority than the reverse. This should be just common sense.

    [DPF: Luc I advocated no such thing. Do not slander me. I used the example of how Jews in Israel, despite the so called humour coming from an enemy who wants to wipe their country out, showed that the best response was undermine his attept at hate cartoons, rather than burn buildinsg down protesting them. It is sad you can't see that]

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  22. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    Yeah but you are a prick Dime. No apology needed.

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  23. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    k.jones,

    ““k.jones and could you direct me the government agency that evlauates what is funny please.”

    Cheif of Staff, Prime Minister’s office, as a general rule.”

    Sorry – I think you are a little confused. Helen & Heather no longer occupy the 9th floor offices.

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  24. Sam (502 comments) says:

    Murray – I’m just saying the joke was in bad taste, and that DPF’s “element of truth” is probably even worse. I’m not saying anything else – that such jokes are/should be illegal, that anyone has the right to lead an insult free life or whatever else you want to build your straw man with.

    I fully believe in freedom of speech, poor jokes included, and Williamson’s/DPF’s right to be complete dicks. But I also reserve the right to be able to call people up on it where I see fit.

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  25. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Also, dime, you didn’t need to take it personally – unless you have inside knowledge as to its veracity.

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  26. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “But really, DPF seems to be advocating that we should construct a relationship with Muslims in New Zealand that reflects the same level of rapport as betwen Iran and Israel i.e. animosity and constant conflict, to put it mildly.”

    What a shame you’ve apparently never lived in a Muslim country. A sickening liberal like you would be lucky to get off the plane in some of them.

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  27. Bob R (1,375 comments) says:

    ***Minorities everywhere are far more sensitive to jokes at their expense by the majority than the reverse. This should be just common sense.***

    Then perhaps they should consider condemning barbaric practices that lead to said jokes?

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  28. Sam (502 comments) says:

    “Then perhaps they should consider condemning barbaric practices that lead to said jokes?”

    You mean, exactly as they have in most Muslim states!? Actually, I am not sure about condemning, but not practising at least…

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  29. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Luc,

    “But really, DPF seems to be advocating that we should construct a relationship with Muslims in New Zealand that reflects the same level of rapport as betwen Iran and Israel i.e. animosity and constant conflict, to put it mildly. So helpful.”

    What would be more helpful Luc, the rapport you exhibit to Isreal? – the accusations and invective you unleash with such predictability and frequency, it is almost metronomic.

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  30. k.jones (210 comments) says:

    Murray – “Sorry – I think you are a little confused. Helen & Heather no longer occupy the 9th floor offices.”

    Confused? non. Wayne, while lower profile, has been known lay down the law with Junior Ministers (when he’s not doing on RnR “serious betting” with gambling lobbyists in Vegas of course)

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  31. eszett (2,408 comments) says:

    What a shame you’ve apparently never lived in a Muslim country. A sickening liberal like you would be lucky to get off the plane in some of them.

    And on the other hand, they warmly welcome people like you, Red.

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  32. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    After all you spend all day and almost every day on here as a sneaking and cowardly apologist for almost every evil out there.

    Not surprised to see a totally over the top response. I’m not an apologist for you.

    I’ve got nothing to apologise for on this. I haven’t publicised a private event speech. I haven’t written or publicised a letter to the PM about it.

    The problem is not in a joke or a cartoon or a book burning. It is in how small and trivial things can be used to generate world wide publicity – one day one of these could be the spark that ignites something major.

    Those that want to prove the evil of Islam, those that want Armageddon to happen to prove themselves “right”, those that choose to stoke and prod and needle, they are as responsible as those that react. And so are the media, those that transport the fuel.

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  33. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    But Murray, when a European male kills and dismembers the mother of his own child we don’t declare war on all European males do we?

    I wasn’t aware a war had been declared on all Muslim males….

    About the only people who trumpet about a generic War on Islam seem to be either fundamentalist Muslims or Far Left westerners.

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  34. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    This is yet another heads up to all those useful idiots that Islam is well and truly here in NZ, and that it will continue to push for “Muslim Rights”, and will continue to demand apologies of those who ‘offend’ Islam or her prophet.

    While at the same time they will continue to demand that crosses atop clock towers, Christmas, Easter, and any other Christian symbols and observances are offensive to Muslims, and therefore must be removed/ceased to be observed.

    When are we going to wise up and do a little DEMANDING ourselves? – perhaps when Muslims emigrate here we should require them to pledge allegiance first and foremost to New Zealand and our existing culture. If they can’t/won’t then perhaps they can go back to where they came from.

    I refuse to see NZ go down the same road as Europe and the UK, where we bend over backwards to appease the Islamists who enter our borders. Who the hell do these arrogant ‘recent arrivals’ think they are? If we continue to permit ongoing Muslim immigration into our nation then, I believe, we can say goodbye to our culture – New Zealand will just become the latest Western nation to succumb to the invasion of the Islamic hoardes … and those of us who survive will find ourselves living as Dhimmis under Sharia Law. I’ll lay down my life before I permit that to happen!!!

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  35. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Kris, are you starting to understand how some Maori might have felt?

    Of course we have to keep NZ as we want it, it’s now very multicultural. But it’s not something for minority groups to try and encourage wars for – that’s not a very Kiwi sort of thing to do.

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  36. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    RRM – true :P But he did label 10+% of the country pricks.

    I do like how muslims can do no wrong cause either A -jews did blah blah or B – christains did blah blah

    2 wrongs dont make a right??

    these people need to lighten up or fuck off :) and that my friends, is the general feeling of most kiwis – if the green leader with the giant ear rings can talk on behalf on kiwis, then so can i!

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  37. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Pete G[e]orge 12:53 pm,

    Kris, are you starting to understand how some Maori might have felt?

    I think you’ll find, Pete, that many Maori at the time embraced being ruled by “Mother England” – especially when contrasted with the alternatives of short life expectancy, being slaughtered/eaten by rival tribes, and living under the superstitious world-view of pre-Europen Maori culture. Many Maori at the time openly embraced the Christian gospel and in no way wanted to go back to their old ways.

    So not a particularly good comparison there, Pete.

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  38. Shunda barunda (2,983 comments) says:

    – New Zealand will just become the latest Western nation to succumb to the invasion of the Islamic hoardes … and those of us who survive will find ourselves living as Dhimmis under Sharia Law. I’ll lay down my life before I permit that to happen!!!

    Well Kris, before you start strapping bombs to yourself and blowing up mosques perhaps you could focus on strengthening your own culture first? Perhaps culture is simply the strength of a nations identity, if Islam can just march in and make themselves our overlords perhaps we are just getting what we deserve?

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  39. CJD (333 comments) says:

    Bob R “Minorities everywhere are far more sensitive to jokes at their expense by the majority than the reverse. This should be just common sense”

    Generally seems to be a specific type of minority. You don’t see Dutch or South African immigrants showing such discomfort at being the but of jokes.

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  40. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    Pete George @ 1253 spouts the line that so many,including politicians do, that NZ is “multicultural”.

    This is simply not true. Many may like the notion but there has been no debate,there should therefor be no change.

    NZ is now multi ethnic or multi racial (arguably always has been) but NOT multicultural. We’re still closed on Sunday.And should be. And Christmas and Anzac Day.

    Sorry to change the subject.

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  41. CJD (333 comments) says:

    MikeNZ “John Key as the Prime Minister of a liberal Democracy should ask them for that as a basis for even writing to him.”

    Are you suggesting that John tells China to go to hell as well? Cos that is where your arguement is leading.

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  42. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    NOT multicultural.

    In one small city, alongside a marae or two, we have many cultural events, Christmas parades (pagan/Christian/consumerism), Pacific festivals, Chinese New Year celebrations, haggis ceremonies and pipe band parades, St Patrick’s Day celebrations, there are a mix of religions including English, Scottish and Italian influences, and so on. I can choose to go out and eat steak and chips, sushi, pizza, satay, kebabs, vindaloo, neeps and mince pies etc etc – my local fish and chip shop also sells Russian delicacies.

    What do you call that culture?

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  43. CHFR (229 comments) says:

    No Sam I meant ourselves. To laugh at others that is a lefty trait.

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  44. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda 1:13 pm,

    I’ll lay down my life before I permit that to happen!!!

    Well Kris, before you start strapping bombs to yourself and blowing up mosques

    Did I actually say that, Shunda?
    It’s funny how people like you seem to gain a perverse pleasure in putting words in other peoples mouths. It’s the language which the Leftard Socialist appeasers seems to employ on a regular basis …

    … perhaps you could focus on strengthening your own culture first? Perhaps culture is simply the strength of a nations identity, if Islam can just march in and make themselves our overlords perhaps we are just getting what we deserve?

    I think you’ll find, Shunda, that most of us here are passionate about our NZ culture and heritage – hence our continual warning that our culture, values and way of life are at risk, not least from allowing immigrants who hold to an ideology totally foreign to that of Judeo-Christian Western culture.

    We are the ones trying to “strengthen [y]our own culture”, whereas you and your ilk seem happy to see it go quietly into the night without even a whimper. Perhaps you need to get your own house in order first, Shunda, before you start throwing around false accusations at others …

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  45. serge (108 comments) says:

    I wonder if Hone would like his daughter to bring one of them islamics home…..

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  46. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    The story about the demand for apology has made it onto the Jihad Watch site.

    Meanwhile, Seattle Weekly cartoonist Molly Norris, who proclaimed a “Draw Muhammad Day” has been put on an execution hit list by U.S.-born Yemeni cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, has had to change her name and gone into hiding on the advice of the FBI.

    Madness….

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  47. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I think you’ll find, Shunda, that most of us here are passionate about our NZ culture and heritage”

    Some are not. Spend all day disclaiming it, apologising for it, bad mouthing our forefathers as wife beaters and drunkards or racists and oppressors and stealers of land, attacking and betraying our armed forces. To them, Western culture is the worst in the world, they can find nothing good about it at all, and they cannot wait to see it absorbed and over-run by the (foreign) cultures they see as superior.

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  48. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    What do you think of NZ and NZ culture as it is today Redbaiter?

    Yes, I know it’s a question, but I want you to confirm that your normal raving about how bad it is here is what you actually believe. If you do that would make your post curious to say the least.

    Is the Tea Party a foreign culture?

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  49. lyndon (325 comments) says:

    It’s like this: Islam is not things-done-in-the-name-of-Islam is not Islamic-countries is not individual-muslims.

    You play the ignoring-the-difference with any religion of ideal you like. But if you so it you’re part of the problem.

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  50. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    I find it ironic that the Left declare that when Muslim’s stone a women for committing adultery, or 19 Muslim’s fly planes into buildings in the name of Islam or do so according to Sharia, it is not representative of Islam as a whole. But when a sick Catholic priest fiddles with a child the whole Vatican is complicit and is rotten to the core…

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  51. lastmanstanding (1,297 comments) says:

    In ones own humble opinion being able to laugh at jokes about ones race culture ethicity believes is to have achieved the highest level of self belief and self understanding. One is secure in ones space.

    On the other hand when a group is outraged and takes offence even when none was deliberately intended then that group and the individuals within the group are sad insecure creatures unstable and unsure of themselves and their beliefs.

    Its like kids that need constant reinforcement.

    And that folks is what the fundemental mad Muzzies are all about. Note I said the fundementals NOT the good Muzzies because there are some but not enough of them.

    Anyone or any group who declares they want to kill me and my family unless I convert to their way of thinking has made themselves my enemy to be terminated with extreme predjudice.

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  52. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Redbaiter 2:28 pm,

    “I think you’ll find, Shunda, that most of us here are passionate about our NZ culture and heritage”

    Some are not. Spend all day disclaiming it, apologising for it, bad mouthing our forefathers as wife beaters and drunkards or racists and oppressors and stealers of land, attacking and betraying our armed forces. To them, Western culture is the worst in the world, they can find nothing good about it at all, and they cannot wait to see it absorbed and over-run by the (foreign) cultures they see as superior.

    If I had my way, Red, these traitors would be lined up and shot for treason – and it wasn’t that long ago treason still attracted the death penalty; long after we got rid of the death penalty for all other crimes.

    It pisses me off no end when these traitors accuse those of us who actually place a value on our culture and heritage of NOT defending our culture – when it is them who are selling us out wholesale. Typical duplicitous Leftards who deflect their own dishonesty onto those who are actually defending our freedoms and way of life. Two faced hypocritical bastards one and all!!!

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  53. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    Pete George (7,239) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    There should be an apology

    I agree Pete. In fact there should be two.

    You should apologise to us for posting such drivel and the muslim dickheads should apologise to NZ for being dickheads.

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  54. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    # Redbaiter (11,578) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    “I think you’ll find, Shunda, that most of us here are passionate about our NZ culture and heritage”

    Some are not. Spend all day disclaiming it, apologising for it, bad mouthing our forefathers as wife beaters and drunkards or racists and oppressors and stealers of land, attacking and betraying our armed forces. To them, Western culture is the worst in the world, they can find nothing good about it at all, and they cannot wait to see it absorbed and over-run by the (foreign) cultures they see as superior.

    Western culture Red?

    We in NZ are in the South East

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  55. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    You see our culture is British.
    If NZ is “south east”,it is south east of where?
    Greenwich,so the world is defined in terms of British explorers,scientists ,soldiers and sailors.
    Hip hip hurrah.

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  56. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    MT_Tinman 3:31 pm,

    Western culture Red?

    We in NZ are in the South East

    And Israel, the only truly Western democracy in its region, is situated in the Middle East.
    So what’s your point? – NZ gets its democracy from being linked to and based on English democracy, not through some irrelevant position it may be located on the globe.

    Don’t you guys ever get sick of your obfuscations?!

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  57. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    If I had my way, Red, these traitors would be lined up and shot for treason

    You want to go to war and fight Muslims who kill people for not agreeing with them, and you think that anyone who doesn’t agree with you should be shot?

    It pisses me off no end when these traitors accuse those of us who actually place a value on our culture and heritage

    Kiwi culture has never been starting wars and killing any of our own who won’t comply (I suspect JC wouldn’t approve either). I’m proud to be a Kiwi, but not your sort of Kiwi.

    Our position on the globe is very relevant to how we are as a nation, and the mix of people that make up our unique combination of cultures.

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  58. Sam (502 comments) says:

    CHFR (6) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    No Sam I meant ourselves. To laugh at others that is a lefty trait.

    But isn’t this storm in a teacup all about a wealthy white male making jokes about Muslims in Iran? How ‘lefty’ is he?

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  59. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Islam is not to be ridiculed. Ridicule highlights that fairy tale’s short-commings. This is why muslims get so upset over their relgion being joked about.

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  60. Bob R (1,375 comments) says:

    ***Meanwhile, Seattle Weekly cartoonist Molly Norris, who proclaimed a “Draw Muhammad Day” has been put on an execution hit list by U.S.-born Yemeni cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, has had to change her name and gone into hiding on the advice of the FBI.***

    The US media have turned a blind eye to that.

    “This sort of assault on free speech — one of the West’s most cherished liberties — has become sadly familiar in places like the Netherlands and Denmark. In 2004, for example, a Muslim extremist slit the throat of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh in retribution for his movie condemning the abuse of women in conservative Islamic societies. In 2006, Dutch-Somali writer and politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali — an outspoken critic of Islam — was forced to flee Holland after threats on her life. In Denmark, cartoonist Kurt Westergaard lives under police protection after a Somali man attempted to murder him.

    Now an event like this may be shaping up in America, with chilling implications for freedom and the rule of law. Yet chances are you haven’t even heard about it….

    Surely, you say, American journalists and media moguls — always staunch defenders of the First Amendment — are proclaiming outrage and rallying round this young woman? On the contrary. The media have largely been silent about her nightmarish plight.

    When the Washington Examiner, an on-line newspaper in Washington, D.C., asked the American Society of News Editors for a statement about Norris, none was forthcoming. Ditto for the Society of Professional Journalists. This, despite the fact that the editors group’s mission statement extols “the First Amendment at home and free speech around the world,” while the journalists claim to stand for “the perpetuation of the free press as the cornerstone of our nation and liberty.”

    http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/103748279.html?elr=KArksc8P:Pc:Ug8P:Pc:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

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  61. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    The US media have turned a blind eye to that.

    Try typing Molly Norris into a site called google and then clicking on the News link near the top left of the page.

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  62. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    Bob R

    Your post puts me in mind of this item from David Vance’s excellent Biased BBC about the media ignoring certain stories while going hard out on the Tea Party woman O’Donnell or whoever it was. I love his line “Look there’s a witch”. I’m going to use that now.
    You know ,”Muslims demand…….never mind, look there’s a witch!”

    http://biased-bbc.blogspot.com/2010/09/shh-dont-mention-new-black-panthers.html

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  63. Seán (397 comments) says:

    While I agree with the point in David’s post, I notice he once again doesn’t apply the sames rules to Judiasm:
    Kiwiblog – Prime and Jews”

    Other lobby groups being too precious:
    Stuff.co.nz – Prime TV billboards axed after complaint

    “The billboards were for Madmen: The Glory Years of Advertising, due out at the end of the month, and bore the slogan: “Advertising Agency Seeks: Clients. All business considered, even from Jews.”

    The billboards were removed after a complaint from New Zealand Jewish Council chairman Geoff Levy, who was also angry about a two-page advertisement using the same wording in the latest Time magazine.

    Mr Levy said Prime had acted quickly to remove the billboards and if the council received a written apology and a two-page apology in the next Time the matter would be resolved.”

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  64. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Pete G[e]orge 3:50 pm,

    … highlights yet again his total lack of comprehension ability.
    You Leftard duplicitious cowards couldn’t even lie straight in bed if your eternal destiny depended upon it.

    How does it feel, Pete, when ALL the evidence keeps on telling you that you’re WRONG? – I’ll give you cowards one thing, you certainly have extremely thick skins.

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  65. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Is it not an accepted fact that muslims have no sence of humour whatever.
    Are there any muslim comedians. No there are none.
    If anyone can name a muslim comic i will apologise
    At least when E.T. got the message, he went home.

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  66. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    # Kris K (3,118) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    A NZ gets its democracy from being linked to and based on English democracy, not through some irrelevant position it may be located on the globe.

    Wrong again.

    NZ may base it’s culture on European ideals but our culture is our own, not simply one transplanted from western climes.

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  67. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    Originally posted by bereal:
    Is it not an accepted fact that muslims have no sence of humour whatever.
    Are there any muslim comedians. No there are none.

    http://www.allahmademefunny.com/

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  68. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    Review by whitey here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/nov/22/theatre.islam
    http://www.theage.com.au/news/arts/comedy-of-terrors/2006/06/29/1151174330447.html

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  69. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    # Pete George (7,242) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Kiwi culture has never been starting wars and killing any of our own who won’t comply (I suspect JC wouldn’t approve either). I’m proud to be a Kiwi, but not your sort of Kiwi.

    Our position on the globe is very relevant to how we are as a nation, and the mix of people that make up our unique combination of cultures.

    Pete I agree with your second point but suggest your first one is historically incorrect.

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  70. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Mr Tinman, its give those who would subvert us endless pleasure to know the depths of our ignorance and weakness, and no one lets them know that more effectively than fools like you (and cowards like Pete George) who can’t even comprehend what the fight is about.

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  71. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    who can’t even comprehend what the fight is about.

    One of the fights is with some Muslims who want to stir shit in the world (terrorists).
    Another of the fights is with stupid buggers here who want to stir shit in the world and start wars with all Muslims.

    How does it feel, Pete, when ALL the evidence keeps on telling you that you’re WRONG?

    Ok Kris, show me the evidence you have that JC would support shooting people you disagree with?

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  72. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Are there any muslim comedians. No there are none.

    And you could try “The Daily Show.” Yes, indeed, a Muslim comic employed on a show starring a Jew! (It’s also, according to one poll, American’s most trusted news show, even though it’s a comedy).

    By the way, you should all check out Jon Stewart’s extended interview with King Abdullah of Jordan. It was very serious and a cut above that generally seen on your much beloved MSM.

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  73. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    For Pete, Shunda, and all the other cowardly appeasers of Islam and the Marxist state:

    There are worse things than civil war:

    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
    John Stuart Mill

    There’s no doubt that the “miserable creatures” have abdicated their responsibilities to “better men” than themselves. All that is required now is for the better (good) men to stand up and be counted.

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  74. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Aw this is just not on, Williamson and Shonkey should invite the Islamic Federation down to the beehive so they can apologise, perhaps they could organise a pig on the spit and a couple of kegs of piss.

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  75. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “It was very serious and a cut above that generally seen on your much beloved MSM.”

    Of course.

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  76. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    John Stuart Mill sounds like a man who never saw much war.

    And oh – look at his dates. How about that.

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  77. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Here is a joke for all my muslim brothers, i hope it will not result in my being hunted down and stoned.
    Abdul visits his Iman
    Abdul, “Iman, I have had sex with an infidel.”
    Iman, “How did this happen my son?”
    Abdul. “I was going home and as I passed the railway lines I saw a white infidel lying there, I took her home and we
    had sex, it was wonderfull, we did it every way, me on top, her on top, everywhich way.”
    Iman, “By the beard of the prophet, was she as beautifull as a desert flower my son?”
    Abdul, “I dunno, I didn’t find the head.”

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  78. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I see that Sean’s 4.50pm post caught the inconsistency rife on this blog very effectively.

    But I’m not sure what he meant by

    While I agree with the point in David’s post

    .

    Is DPF’s point that people who hold different, more intense, views as to the sanctity of their religion (as opposed to satirising the actions of a recognised nation state, a different matter) should always kowtow (irony intended) to our “superior” sense of self?

    If it is, I don’t agree. Even if we think that their intolerance for our kind of humour is misplaced, the facts are that it exists, that it doesn’t do us any harm if we don’t offend it, and that the religious and racial stress caused is simply gratuitous and entirely avoidable.

    In Britain, and some other European countries, as I understand it, people like Kris K would be hunted down and charged with hate speech. And DPF could be in trouble as well. I’m happy we don’t feel the need for such laws, but if this level of Islamophobia continues, it may become inevitable.

    [DPF: A religion is just a belief system. There is no right to have one's beliefs free from mocking, humiliation, rebuttal, criticism etc etc. The moment you demand that I must be forced to not criticise your belief system, you are forcing it on me]

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  79. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    “if this level of Islamophobia continues …”

    Of course a phobia is a fear of something. Me, I just hate a religion that prescribes a law that condemns a rape victim to be buried to her breasts and stoned to death.

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  80. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    I’m willing to fight Kris, if necessary, I just have different standards to you.

    Where is your evidence that warring with religions you disagree with and shooting people in your own country you disagree with is something JC would approve of? You sound more and more like a false Christian.

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  81. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    War is a punishment from God.

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  82. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Luc H[a]nsen 5:41 pm,

    In Britain, and some other European countries, as I understand it, people like Kris K would be hunted down and charged with hate speech. And DPF could be in trouble as well. I’m happy we don’t feel the need for such laws, but if this level of Islamophobia continues, it may become inevitable.

    Our resident anti-Semite trying to stifle free speech – what a surprise.
    And of course I’d likely be “hunted down” in Islamified Europe – why the hell do you think I’m exercising my democratic rights here in NZ while they still exist? That’s the whole point. If Islam becomes established here to the same degree it is in much of Europe then heaven help us all.

    And, Luc, “such laws” will only become “inevitable” if we continue to allow essentially open borders to Islamist immigrants, followed up by our ever increasing appeasement of said immigrants and their satanically inspired scriptures.

    Salman Rushdie certainly got it right when he described the Koran as the “Satanic Verses”.

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  83. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    I was curious to see on what grounds Federation of Islamic Associations New Zealand want the apology. All I could find was that the jokes were “highly inappropriate”. There’s no mention of untruth in them. There’s hardly an explanation beyond “religious intolerance”, which is kinda funny as both jokes make fun of intolerance in a way.

    But then, having an MP make jokes at the expense of a religious minority is not a good look, either. So while the jokes are mostly inoffensive, in my opinion, it probably would be a good idea for some sort of show of contrition for making those sorts of jokes publicly, especially since there has been offence taken.

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  84. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria 6:37 pm,

    War is a punishment from God.

    Not ALL wars, Lucia.
    Some wars result when evil rises up against good. And many wars are the result of fallen man’s arrogance, pride, and his desire to subjugate others – but I’m sure you’re familiar with the many wars initiated by various Roman Catholic Pontiffs throughout the well named Dark Ages.

    More often than not God (of the Bible) has very little to do with such wars.

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  85. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    One side’s good is another sides evil. And vice versa. Some can only see one side, if they stand behind a fence.

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  86. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    Kris,

    God holds back evil. But at times He will not hold it back enough, and wars result.

    The Dark Ages are called such because of the constant barbaric invasions (including Islamic invasions) in what used to be the old Roman Empire. Various Pontiffs were landowners and as such, were involved in wars. But painting them as evil is somewhat tired, Kris. Considering that being Pope is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world.

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  87. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Bevan you’ve got it in one, great summation.

    Bevan (2,619) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
    About the only people who trumpet about a generic War on Islam seem to be either fundamentalist Muslims or Far Left westerners.

    Bevan (2,619) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    I find it ironic that the Left declare that when Muslim’s stone a women for committing adultery, or 19 Muslim’s fly planes into buildings in the name of Islam or do so according to Sharia, it is not representative of Islam as a whole. But when a sick Catholic priest fiddles with a child the whole Vatican is complicit and is rotten to the core…

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  88. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    I hope John Key asks The Federation of Islamic Associations New Zealand when they are going to explain the human rights violations of Sharia Law to our Human Rights Act and the UN declaration to New Zealanders.

    As the leader of our democracy I’d love to see them with him on Campbell Live explain that to us all.

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  89. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    God holds back evil

    But according to doctrine, Lucia, God made all, therefore God made evil, therefore one could say God is evil.

    That’s a view I personally adhere to, and I have requested God to debate his role in creating the human condition, but to date the old prick has been too timid to face up to me and the consequences of His own actions.

    being Pope is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world

    wtf?????

    Being in charge of enough wealth to solve basic water access problems throughout the world, and almost overnight and refusing to do so living in obscene wealth and privilege is a good example of the aforementioned evil.

    Kris K

    Our resident anti-Semite trying to stifle free speech

    There is no such thing as free speech, Kris. All freedoms are defined by their limits. You surely breach not only the spirit of free speech tenets, but also the limits of civil discourse. Of course, many would say that is the aim of this blog, anyway, so you do fit in well.

    Now Kris, just do me one favour – point to anything I have written that indicates that I am anti-Semite. I am against the form of Zionism that justifies the dispossession and oppression of the indigenous Palestinians. I am against the violence engaged in by both sides. I support the two-state solution as the best current means of ending the killing and allowing Palestinians their rights as human beings and as an indigenous people.

    I heard one of your Zionist settlers on the radio today, justifying appropriating Palestinian land on the basis of a (very approx) 4000 year old dream, which was formally recorded less than 3000 years ago. If such nonsense was a recognised basis for claiming land, there would be a lot more wars being fought all over the place! More wet dreams stuff for you as you cower under your blankets and bask in your anonymity.

    You obsessively engage in hate speech, stereotyping an entire, diverse, religion. You are a blight on New Zealand.

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  90. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria 7:41 pm,

    The only thing “tired”, Lucia, is your refusal to acknowledge the evil done at the behest of the various Popes throughout the entire history of the Roman Catholic church. And worse is that the evils of Rome are used as an excuse to tar the entirety of biblical Christianity, when Rome acted purely out of self-interest, and certainly NOT as representative of biblical Christianity.

    The historical atrocities of Rome are no better than those committed by Islamists which confront us on a daily basis.

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  91. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    # MikeNZ (2,912) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Bevan you’ve got it in one, great summation.

    Bevan (2,619) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
    About the only people who trumpet about a generic War on Islam seem to be either fundamentalist Muslims or Far Left westerners.

    In fact, polls show that this is a common belief amongst Muslims. And although we may argue it is not, to them, it is, and they are the ones we are killing.

    Bevan (2,619) Says:
    September 27th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    I find it ironic that the Left declare that when Muslim’s stone a women for committing adultery, or 19 Muslim’s fly planes into buildings in the name of Islam or do so according to Sharia, it is not representative of Islam as a whole. But when a sick Catholic priest fiddles with a child the whole Vatican is complicit and is rotten to the core…

    While the last is actually unfounded and a convenient straw man argument (the justifiable outrage is at the lack of action by the Vatican and the Pope on those sick Priests) one could also add:

    but it’s OK for us to blow to bits women and children with Hellfire missiles from 30,000 feet – just collateral damage in the noble cause of spreading democracy Christianity.

    Or, if you prefer, in the cause of spreading Christianity democracy.

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  92. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Luc H[a]nsen 8:33 pm,

    Your opinion of me, Lucy, bothers me about as much as last week’s fart following a bad bowel movement.

    And I will continue to expose you for the anti-Semite, Muslim appeasing, Marxist lowlife that you are.

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  93. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Luc,

    How was your meeting tonight? Did you dish it out to John Boscawen like you promised you would? I note that meeting started at 7pm and you posted here again (another of your loooong posts) just after 8:30pm. Live next to the yacht club do you?

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  94. Positan (390 comments) says:

    Frankly, much of the debate on this issue falls far short of the KiwiBlog standards to which I’ve grown accustomed – in most cases, appeasers’ views being either completely irrelevant, or wet to the point of inadequacy. It’s highly noticeable that, since the quacking Left discovered how little reward there was in trying to sustain the unsustainable in discussing their fatuous views among themselves on RedAlert and the like, they’ve appeared on KiwiBlog in greater numbers and, as a result, polluted what used to be intelligent discussion.

    While I’m all for wide-ranging input – too often what we’re getting now is reminiscent of a Labour conference – all the intellectual depth of a kindergarten sandpit.

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  95. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    You could always try and raise the standard Positan. Do you think anyone should apologise? Do you think this issue should have seen the light of day?

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  96. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Mohammed takes his daughter to the doctor.
    Doctor asks, ” is she sexually active?”
    Mohammed says, ” no, she just lies there, same as her mother.”

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  97. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hey, Luc Hansen, I can keep this up for as long as you can talk crap.

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  98. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    bereal, joined your mate Kris K in the sewer, have you? I’m not a Muslim, so your pathetic jokes (I can tell you a few PI ones that sound remarkably similar) and I refuse to respond in kind.

    bhudson, I cocked up, sadly, with both the venue and time wrong. That’s what running around after a two year old does to me!

    Poor Kris, still hiding under the bedsheets! Unlike you, I don’t do doctrines. But keep up with the invective – such an endearing fundie Christian trait.

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  99. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    Luc,

    From my post a while back: Lust and Stupidity take on the Pope:

    Rome has historically not been a safe place for popes. The first one (St Peter the Apostle) was crucified there. The next four successors were also put to death. After a gap of three popes, the following five were also killed. The 3rd century saw three executed popes. The city became much safer for popes and all Christians after Constantine declared Christianity the state religion in the 4th century.

    However, after the collapse of the Roman Empire, Rome eventually became so dangerous for popes that they relocated to Avignon in France in 1309 for 100 years or so. Not that Rome was much safer when the popes returned, so the 1400’s saw a number of popes who needed to exercise military skill to get the city under control. As you would with any city that is constantly rioting and revolting against the rulers.

    My post then goes on to Lust and Stupidity, so I didn’t really get into what’s been happening in recent times, such as the assassination attempts on Pope John Paul II (he was shot, right next to the heart, and stabbed on another occasion).

    But according to doctrine, Lucia, God made all, therefore God made evil, therefore one could say God is evil.

    Faulty logic, Luc.

    Evil is the absence of good. Since all goodness comes from God, it is also the absence of God. In terms of action, it acts in opposition to God and in opposition to what is good. Since God gave us freewill, he gives us the choice to choose good or evil. But evil does not come from God.

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  100. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hey Lucia Maria, I guess your major problem is with sex, which is at the root of most of
    your other problems. scuse the pun. Maybe you should get together with Luc
    Could do both of you a world of good.

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  101. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    Kris,

    What saved Western Civilisation in the Dark Ages?

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  102. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Luc, you may not be a muslim, but you are a Quisling.
    Sorry, but you drove me to name calling.
    Normally i wouldn’t stoop that low
    Good nite and good luck to your family.

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  103. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Lucia

    I really don’t think that one or two assassination attempts over hundreds of years makes the job one of the most dangerous in the world. Pathetic.

    And evil is actually: ,blockquote>Evil is intentionally causing harm or destruction, or deliberately violating some moral code. My logic stands.

    Now as regards bereal’s suggestions, hey, I’m game if you are! (Hope my wife doesn’t read this!)

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  104. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    Luc,

    Fidelity is essential in marriage, therefore you need to get your mind out of the gutter right now.
    As for Bereal, I can see why it is that you don’t comment often.

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  105. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Yes Miss.

    But you do sound so just like my Std 6 Nun. She ran off with the Priest!

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  106. Shunda barunda (2,983 comments) says:

    Kris K said:

    For Pete, Shunda, and all the other cowardly appeasers of Islam and the Marxist state:

    There are worse things than civil war:

    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
    John Stuart Mill

    There’s no doubt that the “miserable creatures” have abdicated their responsibilities to “better men” than themselves. All that is required now is for the better (good) men to stand up and be counted.

    And maybe you can wave your underpants at them when they walk past.
    I have no love for Islam and what it stands for, I also have no love for a form of Christianity that essentially behaves the same way.
    Your talk of shooting people for “treason” is just scary and quite frankly impossible to reconcile with the teachings of Christ.
    The fear that many Christians spread with these sorts of issues is corrosive to true faith and simply blinds people to the real solutions.
    Tell me Kris, what is stopping the followers of Islam in NZ being converted to Christianity? Is their God stronger than yours?

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  107. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Their God may not be stronger but their brainwashing is. There are Egyptian muslims converting to Christianity in NZ . They are very upset that their families at home are cutting contact with them. Afghans also are very inclined to convert to Christianity after they leave Afghanistan. Surely you know that they can’t convert in their own countries . Islam is for life. Anyone who tries to leave islam is an apostate and automatically they are put on a death list. Charming..most are born into it and then they risk their own lives to leave it.
    There are various websites and groups for ex muslims..A well known site is ” Faith Freedom International.”

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  108. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Shunda barunda 12:01 am,

    Your talk of shooting people for “treason” is just scary and quite frankly impossible to reconcile with the teachings of Christ.

    When did Christ EVER condemn the right of the state to institute the death penalty for extreme crimes?
    There is nothing contradictory about Christians supporting the right of the state, in acting as God’s agent, to put to death those convicted of such crimes as murder, rape or treason.

    In a similar way, I have no issue with Christians being in the armed services, going to war, or possibly having to engage in activities which may result in the death of an enemy combatant – where there is a threat to our peace, freedom, and way of life from foreign regimes. It is clear that someone who commits treason against the state has declared themselves an “enemy combatant”, and as such the state has every right to bring full judgement against that individual – death penalty, life imprisonment, whatever.

    Even Christ drove out the money changers, etc from the temple with a “scourge of small cords” – not a lot of cheek turning going on here – how UN-Christian of Christ. You guys always emphasis that Christians MUST ALWAYS turn the other cheek.

    Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    Ecc 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
    Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    Ecc 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    Ecc 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    Ecc 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    Ecc 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    Ecc 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

    Sometimes you social gospellers make me want to puke.

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  109. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Also from Ecclesiates: “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.” (King James version)

    Also from the King James Version: Thou shalt not kill.

    From the Kris K Farm version: “Thou shalt not kill. Unless they make you puke.”

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  110. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Pete G[e]orge 10:50 am,

    Also from the King James Version: “Thou shalt not kill.“

    This speaks of the individual, NOT the state, and is in the context of the individual killing/murdering another individual. When the state acts as an agent of God, whether in defending her citizenry against hostile regimes, or against those indivduals who would put her citizenry at risk or in harms way, then the STATE is biblically, if needs be, permitted to take the live[s] of those guilty parties.

    Otherwise, Pete, no sovereign nation, who held the Bible as authoritative, would be permitted to defend itself against hostile foreign regimes. For example, England and the allied forces defending themselves against Nazi Germany and Japan in WWII.

    Good try, but no cigar unfortunately.

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  111. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Amazing contortions, even for you. Cherry picking quotes to try and justify your killing wish. You can try and de-personalise all you like with “the State”, but it’s individuals in “the State” who order other individuals to kill individuals they want eliminated becasue of some perceived threat. Mao, Trotsky, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kris K sort of thinking.

    Just in case you forgot what you said (at 3:29 pm):
    “If I had my way, Red, these traitors would be lined up and shot for treason”

    That is not even aimed at hostile regimes, it’s aimed at people in your own country you simply disagree with. Your intent is as bad as the worst of the Muslims.

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  112. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Pete G[e]orge 11:59 am,

    Once again your total lack of comprehension comes to the fore, Mr George.
    Try actually reading what people say without putting the ‘George’ spin on it.

    With people like you at the helm, Mr George, no doubt Hitler and the Japs would have rolled right over the top of Western civilisation. Thank goodness for people like Churchill who stood up to the evil oppressors, rather than appeasers like you and Chamberlain; who seem[ed] intent on allowing the self destruction of the West by ensuring we put up no resistance. Idiots and traitors with no moral fortitude.

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  113. Shunda barunda (2,983 comments) says:

    Even Christ drove out the money changers, etc from the temple with a “scourge of small cords” – not a lot of cheek turning going on here – how UN-Christian of Christ. You guys always emphasis that Christians MUST ALWAYS turn the other cheek.

    “You” guys? who are these “guys” Kris?
    And regarding Jesus driving out the money changers, why did he do it Kris? Because they were making a mockery of his fathers temple, much like most Christian leadership does today.
    Some how I don’t think your desire to kill me and Pete George for treason is the same thing, and I don’t think that Jesus would endorse your rationale one iota.
    Jesus may not have opposed the authority of the state to kill it’s citizens but he sure didn’t encourage it, in fact since he was executed for exactly the same reasons you put forward here I think he has an entirely different view to you.

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  114. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Kris, you are trying to divert attention from being called out again. You have suggested shooting New Zealanders that you disagree with. Krisinquisition?

    Trying to liken me to Chamberlain is pathetic, and your continued simplistic criticism of him ignores the complex realities he faced. It’s easy criticising him from the other side of the world seventy years after the event, isn’t it.

    And I’m not trying to appease you. Hadn’t you noticed?

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  115. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    It is morons like you who lead our enemies to think victory is within their grasp. BTW, where was your criticism of Luc and his “hunt them down” comment? Don’t bother responding with another of your worthless evasions. Go away you gutless troll.

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  116. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    I don’t read a lot of what Luc posts and avoid getting into many of the discussions involving him. Something you may not be aware of, freedom of speech also means freedom not to speak if you don’t want to.

    BTW, where is your criticism of Kris’s anti freedom threats to kill? Or do you only support freedom for anyone you agree with?

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  117. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Pete G[e]orge 1:55 pm,

    Kris, you are trying to divert attention from being called out again.

    Is that what you think you’ve done, Pete – I think you’ll find all you’ve done is confirmed you have zero comprehension ability.

    Whatever my personal thoughts may be regarding murderers, rapist, and traitors receiving the death penalty – it has little effect on whether or not the state actually carries out that penalty for those who commit such crimes – not that it would worry me if we had the death penalty. But I don’t even know why I try and explain my self to the likes of you and Shunda – for I know you two would be the last kind of people I could rely on when the chips were down, and when they (fascists/Marxists/Muslims) were going door to door and removing ‘dissidents’ to detention centres, or worse.

    No doubt you two, Pete and Shunda, and those like you, would have been there cheering on the Nazis while they were taking the Jews off to the gas chambers. You certainly wouldn’t have been intervening on the Jews’ behalf, and much less using forceful measures to do so, of that I can be sure. Appeasers, enablers and traitors – the end result is exactly the same.

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  118. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    That’s really harsh, Kris. You don’t know what someone would do in a terrible situation such as that until it happens. You can only hope and pray that you yourself would do the right thing, let alone anyone else.

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  119. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria 6:06 pm,

    The point is, Lucia, if certain people are prepared to sit back and do nothing when they witness, or are aware of, atrocities being committed, then they are just as guilty as those who commit such atrocities – they condone such things by their silence.

    Remember the quote –

    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    Edmond Burke 1770

    Conversely; those who do nothing are generally evil men by their implicit condoning of evil.

    The truth is often harsh.

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  120. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Not as harsh as the mad radical fundie Christianists who infect not only this site but the US as well-and THAT’S the scary thing.

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  121. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Kris, you accuse me of having “zero comprehension ability”, and then make outlandish statements alleging what I would do in a hypothetical situation. I don’t know what I would do if confronted with anything like that, I know what I think I should do but until tested none of us know. You have absolutely no idea what I would do. You wouldn’t know the truth if it jumped out from behind a bush.

    All you are doing is flailing from the safety of your anonymity because you don’t like some of your failings pointed out. Being nasty won’t change anything, it just keeps exposing your unchristianness.

    I won’t demand an apology, but you could consider thinking through what a spectacle you are making of yourself. When are you due to go to confession next?

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  122. Shunda barunda (2,983 comments) says:

    Kris, I am not the person you think I am – not a socialist Marxist appeaser, not a liberal theology preaching leftard, and certainly not a Jew hating Nazi.

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  123. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Me too, Shunda…

    But I think Kris is damaged goods from who knows what.

    I resile from being too hard on him.

    But God, it’s tempting!!

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