General Debate 4 September 2010
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General Debate 4 September 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 8:09 am
Nice Day.
September 4th, 2010 at 8:11 am
Unless you live in Christchurch and Darfield . . .
September 4th, 2010 at 8:28 am
Busy news day today. No one had time for GB yet. Perhaps we should talk religion and get it going!
Nephew’s got an almost empty fish tank. Nearly drowned him on the way past to his kids room. Hasn’t found the fish.
September 4th, 2010 at 8:29 am
Just been over to ‘No Minister’ and found this term
‘NACTionalMP gummint’.
What does Nactional mean?
September 4th, 2010 at 8:30 am
Duh
Act/National.
Defunct.
September 4th, 2010 at 8:47 am
OK – so some low life, drug dealing criminal (Jan Molenar) with no gun licence and a collection of firearms that were illegal (he had no licence and by the looks of things, no gun safe either) goes nuts, so once again the Coroner and Co are calling for “tighter” gun laws. How exactly does that stop criminals again? The guy handed in his licence in 2002 and the cops did not check him out to see if he had any firearms in his possession. At least Greg O’Conner had it right when he said
“he was disappointed the coroner had focused on the Arms Act rather than considering whether arming police might have prevented the tragedy.
“It’s a bit of a missed opportunity. To talk about the Arms Act is superfluous because many of the people we deal with, the firearms they have are illegal.”
September 4th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Lately, I’ve noted people crying about the ending of the gold standard. I want to know why. Surely fixing the value of a currency to gold ($x per oz) is just as arbitrary as assigning some value to pieces of paper/coinage (and affixing the value to gold has an implicit problem in that gold values fluctuate, yet the dollar value assigned may not?). Currency values probably fluctuate more now, yes, but isn’t that because the majority of countries have floating rather than fixed or pegged exchange rates (and money supply is also easier to expand or contract, I would guess). At its root, money is just a convenient medium of exchange with little implicit value in and of itself (i.e. it only has value because people believe it does). Affixing it to an arbitrary gold standard doesn’t affect that.
This obviously isn’t my area. I haven’t looked at money supply or the like for a long time, so I’m definitely rusty. Anybody got any ideas as to the other thinking as to why the gold standard was such a marvellous thing?
September 4th, 2010 at 9:04 am
V2, the fish always get it first.
September 4th, 2010 at 9:06 am
@jivekitty
Gold gives paper worth for a start
Ron Paul asked for an anudit of the US gold reserves and was declined.
He’s actually asking if the US still has gold. No one’s seen any for a long time.
Along with his outstanding attack on the Fed, his questioning the gold is making people in high plpaces nervous.
No wonder he denies running in the next election. He’s worried himself.
September 4th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Brian
very good points, though in the DOMPOST I read this am, I thought the emphasis was on assault weapons.
South Africa instituted a 5 yrs jail term for illegal arms and longer if it was automatic or assault.
September 4th, 2010 at 9:15 am
The big ‘plus’ of a gold standard or using any other valuable commodity as a medium of exchange is its scarcity, or perhaps its economic scarcity. Roman soldiers were paid with salt (probably only at various times) hence the word ‘salary’ and the expression ‘worth his salt’.
The gold standard got debased about a 100 years ago with the advent of Government issued banknotes (even banknotes issued by Scottish banks are Government controlled – the banks must hold special Bank of England megapound notes to account for notes on issue). Governments then placed restrictions on trading and holding of bulk gold to protect paper currency. Until the 1980′s or so the ‘official’ price of gold was $US35 but there was no way you could buy gold for that.
The problem with trying to bring back a gold standard is there is probably not enough gold in the world to make it a viable medium of exchange.
September 4th, 2010 at 9:16 am
Ahem, I’ll start you off
Peace talks in the Middle East, rubbish it is all show.
http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=186905
here is the reality of what is in the background in the Middle East, enforcement of “rules” for the beauty of Sharia.
http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=22115
Every terrorist needs a safe anchor to refer back to and it is them and their supporters the world must deal with before any headway can be made against Dawa.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/world/middleeast/03iran.html?_r=1
Barry Rubin has some wise words at the end.
http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2010/09/terror-attack-near-hebron-not-incident.html
Until the West treats Israeli kids like they treat Arab ones, then and only then will they have any currency.
http://www.giladgreetings.org/
But for those in power the pen shows their hearts and minds.
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=3&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=624&PID=0&IID=4636&TTL=Anti-Semitic_Cartoons_on_Progressive_Blogs
What is a refugee?
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=186742
September 4th, 2010 at 9:18 am
How much is Gold with tungsten inside the ingot actually really worth? That was the concern about the British Gold reserves. US likely to be similar? Plus never trust anything that passed via the sneaky Ruskies
September 4th, 2010 at 9:19 am
All bloggers should have the constitutional right to bear arms. That should cheer Cameron up!!
September 4th, 2010 at 9:27 am
http://www.ejpress.org/article/45637
How much education about the holocaust is too much?
September 4th, 2010 at 9:28 am
wikiriwhis business (933) Says:
September 4th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Why is he worried?
September 4th, 2010 at 9:28 am
David
what happened to my 9.16am post?
September 4th, 2010 at 9:35 am
@ JiveKitty – Read this:-
http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/american-and-world-economies-in-deliberate-state-of-slow-collapse/
September 4th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Mike – probably a repetition overload filter.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Pete G[e]orge 9:36 am,
Lucky Kiwiblog doesn’t have a crap overload filter, eh Pete?
September 4th, 2010 at 10:07 am
The right to bear arms is almost as ludicrous as the right to arm bears……….
September 4th, 2010 at 10:08 am
“so once again the Coroner and Co are calling for “tighter” gun laws.”
Just like Adolf and every tyrant that has ever gained power has in the past. These scum socialists are getting nervous and so they should.
Since the US fell into the hands of the Progressives, and with financial collapse imminent in so many other socialist controlled countries, and thuggish behaviour and corruption so widespread, democracy is looking pretty tenuous in many places in the world. The need for the citizenry to retain military firepower should be recognised and regulations regarding the ownership of such weapons relaxed rather than tightened.
This misguided fool David Crerar needs to be sought out in person by a few gun owners and informed on the historical folly of governments taking guns from citizens.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:11 am
It certainly is Kris!! SO what’s your considered view on Hawking’s new book?
September 4th, 2010 at 10:12 am
“Gold gives paper worth for a start”
I realise many people place value on gold, but it’s still an arbitrary store of value – it only has the value that people place upon it much the same as paper and coins issued by government – and its value will still fluctuate in line with that: it seems an unnecessary extra step, except as an added measure to maintain people’s confidence in the continued viability of the system. And I would say that its relative scarcity is its strength and its weakness. Its relative scarcity gives it strength because more value is placed upon it, but it also means that there is unlikely to be enough to back a currency viably as peterwn stated, “The problem with trying to bring back a gold standard is there is probably not enough gold in the world to make it a viable medium of exchange.”, particularly if wealth can be increased(?) (and you also get what France(?) did to the US which lead to the currency pegging to the gold standard being removed). Why gold and not some other commodity (although as I’ve stated I don’t see the need for the backing of a commodity)? It just seems wholly arbitrary and unnecessary.
@mawm: Thanks. I’ll read your link and see if it answers my questions.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:12 am
You would know KK.
TV1 is doing the right thing with earthquake coverage but are suffering from major repetition syndrome too – always happens with continuous disaster coverage, when they run the most coverage they have the least material to show. Often it takes a day or two to get the full picture.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Redpizzle, just what part of the firearms laws do you think ought to be relaxed?
The vetting procedure?
September 4th, 2010 at 10:16 am
@thedavincimode: The view I’ve seen trotted out is essentially this: http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/09/03/exist/ Well, either that or cries of “No, it needs a creator.” without bothering to back that up. (I’m not sure if Hawking has denied the role of a creator or just said one’s unnecessary. I know what the headlines have said but from what I recall, the direct quotes I’ve seen don’t make it clear – although they certainly imply a lean in that direction.)
September 4th, 2010 at 10:16 am
“The need for the citizenry to retain military firepower”
What would be the point in that, apart from fueling a civil war? Ah, right, that’s what you want, anarchy and revolution.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:18 am
“The vetting procedure?”
Go away arsehole, with your obsessive stalking you long ago lost any right to be recognised as a legitimate debater, and in any place, if you have some POV, try stating it instead of so arrogantly presuming to interrogate other commenters. There’s already one too many posters suffering that overbearing affliction.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:20 am
“with your obsessive stalking” – says the masterbaiter attack troll.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:23 am
“What would be the point in that,”
Financial collapse, followed by the collapse of government, followed by anarchy, followed by an inter-group political struggle to assert power. That power will be largely resultant upon who has the most effective firepower. If you can’t defend yourself or your family, or participate in the defence of democracy, you’ll be just another victim
A scenario that could be far more imminent than such as you could ever realise.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Jivekitty
He’s apparently said there was no creator, whereas my vague recollection is that previously he had left the door open on the prospect (which he nevertheless didn’t rate highly) and had expressed a hope that there was.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Never stalked anyone ever Pete- another one of your habitual false allegations and smears. Commie.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Its a simple question Redcheeks.
You stated:
“The need for the citizenry to retain military firepower should be recognised and regulations regarding the ownership of such weapons relaxed rather than tightened. ”
I asked:
“Redpizzle, just what part of the firearms laws do you think ought to be relaxed?
The vetting procedure”
Now, my suggestion that the vetting procedure might be the focus of your concern may be incorrect – I don’t know. But that doesn’t invalidate the question. So let me pose it again in order that you have the opportunity to substantiate what would otherwise remain as a mere assertion lacking substance and credibility.
Just what part of the firearms laws do you think ought to be relaxed?
September 4th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Can’t you read you dumbfuck? Shove your questions up your arrogant arse. If you’ve got a point, make it, but don’t expect me to volunteer to expand the limited horizons of your knowledge of history or politics. Especially with the kind of obsessive psycho that you have demonstrated yourself to be. Go stalk someone else freak.
[DPF: 20 demerits]
September 4th, 2010 at 10:33 am
If you think that those with “the most effective firepower” would “participate in the defence of democracy” then you are “just another victim” of stupidity.
Being called a commie by you is about as bad as being called a capitalist by Sue Bradford.
“Never stalked anyone” – you don’t fool anyone (except maybe yourself). I suppose you have your own quaint term for it – prowl and attack, attack, attack?
Re relaxing firearms laws, Redtroll doesn’t consider anything beyond his slogans. Relaxing would have to mean less stringent vetting or allowing for more powerful weapons.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Stalking, in the blogosphere Pete, (seeing as usual you appear so ignorant of the term) is the act of following a particular commenter obsessively and responding to every message that poster makes in derisive manner and most often in off topic mode. Unfortunately, I seem to attract these sick white knuckled psychotics in droves.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Redbaiter 10:23 am,
And I’m sure you’re right, Red.
One only needs to look at what’s happening in Christchurch a matter of hours after the earthquake took the power out, and many shop frontages were exposed, and the resultant looting by opportunists.
At any given time I believe we’re just a heartbeat away from total societal collapse and anarchy.
“Hand me my gun, darling.”
September 4th, 2010 at 10:44 am
Redcheeks
I’m not asking you to ” … volunteer to expand the limited horizons of [my] knowledge of history or politics.”
I’m simply asking you to explain what is an otherwise unsubstantiated assertion.
So, just what part of the firearms laws do you think ought to be relaxed? Or are you suggesting that there should be no gun laws at all, or that only a single or limited classes of the citizenry should be permitted to hold firearms; two possibilities that might be inferred from your comment at 10.23am.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:46 am
More often than not you are the one doing the prowling and initial attacking. Sure, a few bait you but that’s mostly for entertainment.
That’s what you do. And then try and deny it.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Except of course Adolf and his nazi mates didn’t use gun control.
The Firearms Policy Journal (January 1997) writes:
“The Nazi Party did not ride to power confiscating guns. They rode to power on the inability of the Weimar Republic to confiscate their guns. They did not consolidate their power confiscating guns either. There is no historical evidence that Nazis ever went door to door in Germany confiscating guns. The Germans had a fetish about paperwork and documented everything. These searches and confiscations would have been carefully recorded. If the documents are there, let them be presented as evidence.”
On April 12, 1928, five years before Hitler seized power, Germany passed the Law on Firearms and Ammunition. This law substantially tightened restrictions on gun ownership in an effort to curb street violence between Nazis and Communists. The law was ineffectual and poorly enforced. It was not until March 18, 1938 — five years after Hitler came to power — that the Nazis passed the German Weapons Law, their first known change in the firearm code. And this law actually relaxed restrictions on citizen firearms.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:19 am
“That’s what you do. And then try and deny it.”
You’re a lamer. Point out please where I have asserted that the left should not be attacked. The issue is that Conservatives need to develop from a position of continual defence to one of agression against those who would enslave us. I stand by that, I continue to encourage it, I am pleased to observe it is a lot more prevalent now than what it was and I am also pleased to witness it bearing fruit, as demonstrated by the abject panic exhibited by the left in so many different areas of the globe.
Its clear though that obsessive and psychotic stalking would be by its very crazed and insane nature detrimental to any cause, and I would never engage in it or encourage it, so once again, you’ve exposed yourself as crosswired as ever in respect of the concepts under discussion. Just another boring slow witted time wasting left wing fool of such narrow political perspective they’re completely out of touch and irrelevant in any discussion on current events.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:21 am
“Except of course Adolf and his nazi mates didn’t use gun control.”
Pitiful socialist propagandist. Seek out “Jews For The Preservation of Firearms” (or such) and understand why they exist and what event gave rise to that existence.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:22 am
JiveKitty – I’ve only taken an interest in the monetary system in the last year and what I’ve read to date is horrifying. I’m not sure yet exactly how a gold standard would work but we need a better system than the present one in which private businesses (banks) are allowed to create fiat money out of thin air through the process of fractional reserve banking.
“A fiat monetary system allows power and influence to fall into the hands of those who control the creation of new money, and to those who get to use the money or credit early in its circulation. The insidious and eventual cost falls on unidentified victims who are usually oblivious to the cause of their plight. This system of legalized plunder (though not constitutional) allows one group to benefit at the expense of another. An actual transfer of wealth goes from the poor and the middle class to those in privileged financial positions.” (Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX)
On fractional reserve banking:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/frb.html
The present system is a pyramid scheme which is why we have constant inflation and why we have an ever increasing money supply.
As you say, money is simply a means of exchange, it should be run by Government for the people. (One of the few things I believe Government should run). Profit shouldn’t be a factor.
“The government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the tax payers will be saved immense sums of interest. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the government’s greatest creative opportunity. – Abraham Lincoln
“Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talk of sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile . . . Once a nation parts with control of its credit, it matters not who makes the nation’s laws . . . Usury once in control will wreck any nation.” – William Lyon MacKenzie King, former Prime Minister of Canada
It’s an amazing topic and one which the majority haven’t got a clue about. I’m reading “The Lost Science of Money” by Stephen A. Zarlenga, which is excellent. Explains the system from caveman days to present times. I’ve only got to about the 1600′s and it is freaky!
I think people need to start asking questions and doing their own research. Most people (apart from those in the “industry”) feel something isn’t right with a system which sees the majority in permanent debt. Almost like an intricate version of bonded slavery really.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:26 am
General Redbaiter Platform 4 September 2010
Yawn, I wondered why I don’t read this thread much. Then I remembered.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:39 am
“Its clear though that obsessive and psychotic stalking would be by its very crazed and insane nature detrimental to any cause”
I agree.
“and I would never engage in it or encourage it,”
The jokes keep coming.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:46 am
“The jokes keep coming.”
“Joke’s” being of course a euphemism for the usual sick and cowardly smears. You’ve already been fried on that one, but like the fool you are you insist on further attempts to prosecute it. Same old same old Goebellian and Stalinist propaganda tactics that supporters of tyranny have used throughout history. Only you, in your abject and isolated ignorance would continue to see it as useful. This is the information age, and any such tired old statist tactic cannot work when the smears can be countered instantaneously. Only a tired out of touch jerkoff like you Pete (and others of your equally desperate Commie ilk) would continue with such discredited strategies.
Name a commenter you consider I have stalked.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:52 am
That’s how things have generally worked for a long time. A few gain some sort of power (military and/or financial) and use and exploit the masses.
A basic flaw in the “market rules” approach is that it becomes corrupted by a few who want to rule and exploit rather than just compete. Sports need referees for good reason, “the market” seems to make it’s own rules to suit an unbalanced team.
The communist approach becomes corrupted as a few seek more power and riches at the expense of others, and many try to get a free ride. The main difference is that communism has been just about entirely discredited, capitalism encumbered by consumerism is still setting itself up for a major fall. Some time it will happen.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:58 am
A basic flaw in the “market rules” is the fact that fractional reserve banking is a giant Ponzi scheme. That is the reason for the fear of a run on the banks, they are promising something they don’t have and are charging interest on it! Stunning really!
Money should not be a commodity for profit. The “major fall” will happen when enough people understand the rort and refuse to play, it is only a matter of time.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Hahaha. 11,000 posts. Don’t want to fill up the thread with the obvious – just browse back through then archives or use google, it’s not difficult. You are known widely, here and throughout the blogosphere, as an attach dog with no teeth. Unless you can prove that’s not true
September 4th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
So Redpizzle, why won’t you substantiate your bare-faced assertion?
Or are you a bit twitchy now because you’ve stashed things under your bed that you shouldn’t have? And I’m not talking about those photos of Kris K, the rubber camo pajamas, the year-long supply of baked beans or the bottled water.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
“Hahaha. 11,000 posts. Don’t want to fill up the thread with the obvious – just browse back through then archives or use google, it’s not difficult.”
So you cannot name one, and feign humour in an obvious transparent and weak attempt to once again remove the focus from your habitual lying smearing and cowardice. When one allegation is exposed as a lie, you just move on to the next one without exhibiting a skerrick of shame. Three times already this morning you have easily been exposed as a liar and a coward and it troubles you not one iota. The perfect amoral Communist mindset.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
“your habitual lying smearing and cowardice”
priceless
September 4th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
“priceless”
Identify one lie you sad pathetic psychotic.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
“you sad pathetic psychotic”
I take it you don’t deny the smearing and the cowardice.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
As I thought, just another psychotic smearer and stalker with nothing but empty assertions. At least when I assert you to be a sad pathetic psychotic, there is evidence to back it up, and that evidence is your obsessive stalking and desperate attention seeking that must be an indicator of a severe difficulty in coping with reality. Join Mr. George in the fruitcake tin.
“Priceless”, he sneers so arrogantly, and then quickly turns to water when asked to support it. I dunno why I bother with you lame and shallow fuckwits.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
That sounds like stalking, making repeat false accusations and refusing to substantiate any of your bullshit.
And I see you are self-satiring again, take the mirror down from behind your screen.
You illustrate your amoral Communist mindset very well.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
“with nothing but empty assertions”
Which brings us to your as yet unsubtantiated and therefore, empty assertion that: “The need for the citizenry to retain military firepower should be recognised and regulations regarding the ownership of such weapons relaxed rather than tightened. ”
So, just what part of the firearms laws do you think ought to be relaxed? Or are you suggesting that there should be no gun laws at all, or that only a single or limited classes of the citizenry should be permitted to hold firearms; two possibilities that might be inferred from your comment at 10.23am.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
You’re just an endless cassette of lies and cowardice Mr. George.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Show your bravery and honesty then, answer davinci’s question. If you mean what you post then surely you have the balls to back it up and explain it. Surely you are more than empty slogans.
You are lying claiming I have lied. More unsubstantiated smears. Your typical MO.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
“You’re just an endless cassette of lies and cowardice ”
Mirror mirror on the wall …
September 4th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Have just spent 30mins watching a rather large whale in Wellington harbour. Not an Orca, where we do see from time to time. This large fella drifted around 10-15 meters off Mahanga bay, seems to take a nibble at or around the fisheries research stations there. Never have my harpoon on me when I need it
September 4th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
“answer davinci’s question”
You lot are so lame. I have already explained in no uncertain terms why I choose not to debate with obsessive stalking psychotics like the presumptuously named davinci. Did you read it? Did you comprehend it? Apparently not. Or if you did read it, as always, you’re off in some insular communist inner space that effectively walls you off from ever understanding anything outside that twisted and corrupt and shameless paradigm.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
So you prefer to stick with the empty assertion.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
You are the one making the empty assertions, namely of lying and then being unable to identify a single deliberate untruth. Fuck off lamer. Your 15 minutes were up a long time ago.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Redpizzle, you have on this very page made an empty assertion. Where is your evidence to the contrary?
September 4th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
krazykiwi – got any dynamite? That’s what they tried in Oregon in 1970…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79tl2H3QzT0&p=20AF0A7EE84DB46F&playnext=1&index=1
September 4th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Red I read your posts in awe, not so much for there content, but for there tenacity in bothering to reply to these 2, who only want to wind you up, for a bit of sport.
Leftists are like that, their sense of entitlement oozes from every word they post.
Christ don’t davinci & pete have anything else to do on a lovely saturday?
I am off to do some gardening, wash the new ute, and then have a quiet beer.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
“Redpizzle, you have on this very page made an empty assertion. Where is your evidence to the contrary?”
Hahha, You sad illiterate lamer, you cannot even write anything coherent.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Ok, that confirms that your wee spiel on relaxing firearms control has a major flaw that you want to hide, so you try and divert from that with your usual bluster. It would have taken a simple explanation/answer. A few words. One line. Instead you post ten rambling diversions. Back to the beginning, you said”
What sort of military firepower do you retain under your bed? Do you want that legalised by getting regulations relaxed? There must be some reason for your bizarre statement.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
“Red I read your posts in awe, not so much for there content, but for there tenacity in bothering to reply to these 2, who only want to wind you up, for a bit of sport.”
Yeah, you’re right Lofty, but we should never let a chance to show the rest of the world what vermin leftists are go by. As long as they are happy to unwittingly expose their ideological corruption and perversion, we should make use of that willingness.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
“communism has been just about entirely discredited, capitalism encumbered by consumerism is still setting itself up for a major fall”
Pete IMO the thing about communism re: this is that classic communism wraps up both electoral and economic environments into a single package whereas capitalism doesn’t pretend its anything else but economic. Communism doesn’t have to be like this for its electoral component is separable, as we see in China.
Capitalism is clearly the best system, but not necessarily the way its currently designed. The finance sector IMO, doesn’t operate properly in the world’s current version of it, because finance is used for avaricious purposes as much as if not more than, productivity. Finance in its current version provides massive profits way out of proportion to the very very few. The fact it pretends to the useful idiots that life as we know it wouldn’t function without them and some useful idiots buy that, doesn’t change that fact. To me, the current system is a hollow shell. The reason for this IMO is our unwise obsession with consumerism. As personified by the number of times people talk about their gadgets that often do nothing but make time pass more rapidly: i.e. nothing productive. He says as he types into his computer on a beautiful Wellington Saturday…
Seriously though. With all the power we have at our collective fingertips, does the world really do a wise job of benefiting itself? I wonder if you rated our performance on a what-we-should-be-doing vs what-we-actually-do scale, how well the current world, would stand up?
September 4th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
“not so much for there content,”
Even your support notices.
“As long as they are happy to unwittingly expose their ideological corruption and perversion, we should make use of that willingness.”
Why do you think I lead you along? You willingly oblige.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
“Capitalism is clearly the best system, but not necessarily the way its currently designed. “
I agree, but we have to have and need to have a side serving of socialism as well.
“With all the power we have at our collective fingertips, does the world really do a wise job of benefiting itself? I wonder if you rated our performance on a what-we-should-be-doing vs what-we-actually-do scale, how well the current world, would stand up?”
I don’t think it stands up very well, more like propped up precariously with many vested interests wobbling it.
I think many people understand the flaws, but it’s such a big complex established mess that it’s very difficult to fix it from the ground up. Unless that is done we are likely to crash big time, sooner or later.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
RB – why waste your time with a bunch of infantile ‘progressives’. Their backs are against the wall and they are lashing out at those who don’t have the same sense of impending doom as them.
Come November it is all ‘change’, and ‘hopey’ will be gone in 2012. Climate alarmism has been discredited forever. Labour are goneburger. Welfarism is under the microscope….THERE IS NOTHING LEFT FOR THEM. Bwahaaahaaa.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/
Did any of you know that Hindu Kush means Hindu slaughter?
I didn’t, I just thought it referred to a geographic area in India.
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28014130/Moslem-Conquest-of-India-by-Will-Durant
September 4th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
“I agree, but we have to have and need to have a side serving of socialism as well.”
Do we? Why? Isn’t a genuine democracy quite sufficient. Notwithstanding whatever we have now, re: the genuine bit.
Socialism is an electoral concept, not a commercial one. Why conflate the two?
“I think many people understand the flaws…”
I think many people know that something is wrong, but they can’t put their finger on it. Then they turn their thoughts back to the compelling and fascinating telly.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Why can’t capitalism be kind to the poor?
September 4th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Too much greed and laziness.
Humans haven’t yet figured out how to set up sustainable systems or civilisations. Or simply can’t. Maybe collapse of financial systems and nations is as inevitable as earthquakes.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Redcheeks, in its context, the statement: “You are the one making the empty assertions” infers that you are not making empty assertions.
That is plainly not the case. You said:
“The need for the citizenry to retain military firepower should be recognised and regulations regarding the ownership of such weapons relaxed rather than tightened. ”
You have not substantiated that assertion.
Your susbsequent comment:
“Financial collapse, followed by the collapse of government, followed by anarchy, followed by an inter-group political struggle to assert power. That power will be largely resultant upon who has the most effective firepower. If you can’t defend yourself or your family, or participate in the defence of democracy, you’ll be just another victim”
does not in fact substantiate the first. It merely makes further assertions that you have not substantiated with any evidence or rational explanation. Other comment by you infers you support your position based on history but if that is your only evidence could I perhaps point out these outcomes have only occurred in regions and under regimes where large portions of the populace, some of whom would not necessarily be as stupid as you, possess firearms.
You are making empty assertions. So why don’t you embark upon that trek to Mt. Credibility by explaining just what part of the firearms laws you think ought to be relaxed. And if you’re suggesting that there should be no gun laws at all, or that only a single or limited classes of the citizenry should be permitted to hold firearms and, that being the case, why that would be good for democracy.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Mike I think the kindness comes from the electoral system we have.
In all societies it’s when the electoral system breaks down that you see the ruthlessness.
It’s not capitalism’s job to be anything but ruthlessly focused on achieving maximum efficiency in terms of productivity. Where its lost its way is that it’s been diverted into a wealth accumulation machine for the benefit of the few. It doesn’t have to be like that but currently, it is.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/how-goldstone-is-making-p_b_701950.html
I do not see the Western nations including ours doing this, so I am not at all hopeful for peace in the Middle East.
To my mind this is common sense and shows that if we won’t defend the rights of all Nations to act responsibly to protect it’s citizens in the international forums we operate in, then we mustn’t moan and must rather keep our mouths shut.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Reid
So the onus is on individuals within the capitalist system to act kindly to the poor, not to the state to ensure they aren’t abused by the ruthlessness of it?
September 4th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
reid – well said. The resources of the planet are poorly used, this is one of the side effects of greed/unbridled capitalism.
It doesn’t encourage innovation as most proponents would argue. We know for example that all products could be made better and to last longer but there is no point doing that in a market measured by economic formulae that sets max profit as the ultimate measure.
The financial sector is a shining example of an “industry” that provides very little of worth yet takes a disproportionate amount of wealth. The growth in this area in the last 50 years has been phenomenal. Compare the banking system of the 50′s to today! Truly insane when in essence, this sector brings the least to the “table” in terms of the needs for a decent way of living.
The financial sector is truly nothing more than a casino which sets it’s own rules – Crazy. That was the reason for my absolute disgust at the bailout of SCF with taxpayers’ money. That was no different than Sky City telling all their punters to come on down, you can’t lose.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Kaya
We know for example that all products could be made better and to last longer but there is no point doing that in a market measured by economic formulae that sets max profit as the ultimate measure.
Is this in the way of a sustainable economy?
September 4th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Lofty & Mawwm
A couple of redneck fuckwits who are incapable of grasping the simple notion that bullshit and bluster and linking to nut-job web-sites in the US is not a substitute for an argument . So you’ve got a ute eh Lofty? Have you also got a “Let’s Fuck” keyring? How’s that mullet?
Ordinarily, I would lament the fact that morons like you have a vote. But for as long as you enjoy sucking on ‘baiters nuts in your pathetic and puerile attempts to ingratiate yourselves with him rather than take the time to have some ideas of your own, then I guess you won’t be voting for Labour and the melons which makes you useful for that reason, but none other that I can think of.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Political correctness gone mad.
30+ black youths going round stating it’s beat whitey night and the administration reassign a policewoman who called it what it was.
shit, I hate progressive mindsets, what don’t they understand about what comes out of peoples mouths can be what they mean?
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100903/NEWS01/9030368/Police-spokeswoman-moved-after-remarks-on-fairgrounds-fights
September 4th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Thanks for that davinci, you have just reaffirmed ny opinion of you.
Sorry pal not enough hair for a mullet, have to wear a cheesecutter to keep the sun off.
Had to get rid of the “Lets Fuck” keyring, the old fella aint so good nowadays.
The thought of sucking reds nuts makes me feel physically ill.
Ingratiate myself????????? WTF???
Anyway carry on, my lovely brand new ute waits for a grooming, and the sun is shining.
Take care of yourself.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Got sent this link.
Do you AGW experts out there know whether this is credible?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/is-the-day-after-tomorrow-happening-today-ice-age-imminent.html
September 4th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
“So the onus is on individuals within the capitalist system to act kindly to the poor, not to the state to ensure they aren’t abused by the ruthlessness of it?”
In an ideal world that would happen automatically. We are almost all born naturally altruistic but life gradually beats that out of us as we realise that if we were to give half our pay packet to that guy sitting on the side walk with a sign, we wouldn’t be able to pay our mortgage. So at the mo, I think the onus is on the state to make sure that everyone is looked after properly because if we leave it up to individuals it won’t happen. The kindness of a genuine democracy is that it accurately reflects the collective kindness of the individuals living in it.
I think you can have a successful society without capitalism but it’s not as efficient. This is why I think socialists are fucking mental. They seem to want us to have a poorer life. To punish us. It’s nuts. The point is, there is nothing inherent within capitalism that makes this inevitable, but the only way it’s going to change is via democracy. When people say capitalism is driven by greed they’re right.
Unfortunately, what we have today is that we elect people to whom power is an opiate. They enjoy leading us, it makes them feel better. i.e. they don’t do it for us, they do it for them.
So in summary, our capitalism is infected by avarice, and our democracy by venal ego. Isn’t that good.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I can’t see how the US can repair it’s financial and political systems, too interconnected, too many people with too much to gain/lose.
NZ could be different, small enough – but I doubt we are brave enough, and we will always float on the international breeze. It first needs a bit of a reform of political thinking and tweaks to the democratic system, wouldn’t take a lot to make significant changes, but it has to be driven by people rather than politicians.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
mawm (109) Says:
September 4th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Jivekitty
Is this a good reason for all nations to control their central banks and not have them as private enterprises?
September 4th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Reid
I think the onus is on the state to make sure that everyone is looked after properly because if we leave it up to individuals it won’t happen. The kindness of a genuine democracy is that it accurately reflects the collective kindness of the individuals living in it.
Is the problem here (in NZ ) that too many (as in %) have come to regard their aid as an entitlement (permament) rather than temporary aid or is it because the numbers are dragging us down in relation to those producing?
What does it mean to look after everyone properly?
Why should the state take the place of families and whanau, because the load is spread or because they (whanau) won’t or can’t do it?
September 4th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I’m a prostitute!
Are you?
http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2010/08/30/we-are-all-prostitutes-today/
September 4th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Da Vinci – true to form….the personal attack.
MMmnnnn….what can we pull out of the Alinsky handbook….racist? Nope, being used too often. Redneck? That would fit as he obviously doesn’t support ‘progressivism’, so he must have a mullet and is married to his cousin.
You see Da Vinci, it is really simple to lower myself to your level and make assumptions. Unlike Red, I try not to engage lefties in argument because it is futile, uninformative and the personal insult is heralded as a display a higher intellect. RIP.
September 4th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Mawm, don’t you see that it is generally futile to engage Red as well? At least it is futile to debate with him because he won’t, or can’t. But he does highlight his own contradictions.
He engages in at least as much if not more personal insult than anyone here. Do you accept that just because he claims to be “right”?
September 4th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
mawm at 12:58 pm
“RB – why waste your time with a bunch of infantile ‘progressives’. Their backs are against the wall and they are lashing out at those who don’t have the same sense of impending doom as them.
Come November it is all ‘change’, and ‘hopey’ will be gone in 2012. Climate alarmism has been discredited forever. Labour are goneburger. Welfarism is under the microscope….THERE IS NOTHING LEFT FOR THEM. Bwahaaahaaa.”
mawm at 1:44 pm
“Da Vinci – true to form….the personal attack.
MMmnnnn….what can we pull out of the Alinsky handbook….racist? Nope, being used too often. Redneck? That would fit as he obviously doesn’t support ‘progressivism’, so he must have a mullet and is married to his cousin.
You see Da Vinci, it is really simple to lower myself to your level and make assumptions. Unlike Red, I try not to engage lefties in argument because it is futile, uninformative and the personal insult is heralded as a display a higher intellect. RIP.”
Mawwm, why am I not surprised you can’t even remember what you’ve posted 46 minutes earlier? For most it would just be hypocrisy, for you … well ..
September 4th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Pete George – Yes he does insult the idiots here, but time and time again his arguments are sound and the Lefty responses revert to infantile drivel, personal invective and repetition of baseless ‘fact’. It is much more productive to go and hit one’s head against a wall.
Much of what one argues is defined by personal experience. Like Red, I see Capitalism and freedom as being much more succesful than Communism, Social Democracy, Progressivism and ‘Hope and Change’. History would back this outlook – the Soviet Union, NuLabour and our own recent experience here in NZ, for example, has shown how destructive these policies are. Obama is reconfirming it in spades.
I don’t want to engage in any discussion where center-right stances are hyped as being ultra right-wing, where conservative values are equated with being a redneck, etc. This is plainly not true and is dishonest. Unfortunately this is the level of debate that comes from those leftists on this board. I blame their education and the mainstream media for it. Modern educationists, who themselves have not had any original thoughts, are suddenly responsible for teaching them to use their own minds…and failing; and the media, where the option for original thought is stifled, have been shown repeatedly to foster and propagate untruths.
So, personally I don’t want to engage in tiresome arguments about the same things, but will quite happily cheer from the sidelines as Red exposes the left. It is such a pity that some of them do not read his references and try to understand what is being said as they would learn a lot. However I’d say that it is a bit like trying to convince the flat earth society that the world is round.
September 4th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
“What does it mean to look after everyone properly?”
To educate them with respect to the values of self-discipline and helping others.
I think we’d be much better off if the school curriculum included community service as part of the standard package from day one in year one. I think we should also teach children how the world of work really works, not just in theory but in practice. We should teach them about tax, about banking and finance, all the things we currently pick up only after we leave school. A heavy component should be inculcating them with the value of hard work, thrift and self-denial for the longer term benefit.
We should take poor children around rich neighbourhoods and not only tell them they can get there if they want to but show them what they need to do, to do it. We should tell them for example, the most rich people are much better at delaying gratification than most of us and just exactly what that means. We should eliminate the insanity that is the belief that getting rich involves taking from others, that’s one poison we just don’t need to have, at all, in our society.
How the hell we do all that based on what we have now, I have no idea. Well I do, but it involves large-scale re-education camps and for some reason, some disapprove of that approach.
September 4th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Da Vinci – I suppose it would be a waste of time to suggest that there is a difference between making a comment on observed behaviour as opposed to suppostion.
September 4th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Mawn, you seem to be inconsistent.
RB frequently accuses people with centre right, centre and centre left views as being ultra left. Is that not being is “plainly not true and is dishonest”?
You think it’s ok for people you disagree with to be insulted, supporting an attack rather than debate approach, but criticise others for doing anything similar.
RB exposes himself and his own deficiencies far more than he exposes “the left”. Sometimes he posts some interesting points but has a hissy fit if anyone tries to discuss it. He thinks he is attacking but he comes across as trying defend his own shortcomings with bluster bombs.
RB would find a lot more support for his ideas here if he had enough confidence in them to expand on them and discuss them, and didn’t go on the protective defensive so much.
If you think anything but “the right” is unacceptable do you think an inclusive democracy is unacceptable?
September 4th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Next up is The Labour Theory of Value.
I realise that people like Kaya have very little interest in what happens back on earth but down here I can say that the cars, planes, phones, computers, medicines, medical treatments, houses and almost everything else I use in everyday life are quite superior to what was available 30 years ago, let alone 50-100 years ago. I can also point to everyone of those items and find people who have made profits (often quite big profits) from improving them.
The other important thing to note is that it is these types of core, “common-sense-that-everybody-naturally-understands”, prejudices about capitalism – more than any intellectual understanding of socialist, communist or even social democratic theory – that are the pivot upon which statists constantly lever for more government control over our lives.
September 4th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Gee, I would love it if we still had karma Pete, so that you wouldn’t forget so quickly how most readers here think you are a tool and can tell plain enough what Red is getting at.
In saying that Pete, you are occasionally readable and reasonable, but you are now very much in the skim reading basket. If you can’t make your point about Red in 3,000 posts or less, I would give up.
Yours, and a couple of other posters dumb obsession with making fools of yourselves re Red has replaced Philu’s posts as kiwiblogs no1 cause of excessive use of the scrollwheel.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Mawm there is a difference but I don’t see how that supports your fawning comment and the supposition it contained.
Nor do I see how anyone can credibly see that anything posted here by sheepbaiter as an “argument”. And as for your criticism of people you then presume to be lefties, it is the very fault that the lunatic ‘baiter exhibits day in and day out. Your responses have no credibility. You know as well as I do that ‘baiter was sprung yet again, and his typical response was the bullshit, bluster and invective to which you chose to lend your support. The thread was guns; ‘baiter ran and you kissed his arse as he whistled past.
You clearly agree with some of his opinions, but that fact does not in itself mean that you are agreeing with any rationally articulated argument because there never is one.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
“can tell plain enough what Red is getting at”
Sonny, what do you think he was getting at when he said “The need for the citizenry to retain military firepower should be recognised and regulations regarding the ownership of such weapons relaxed”?
Do you think he meant more people should be allowed them? Or more firearms should be allowed to those with licenses? Or more powerful firearms should be allowed for a few?
September 4th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
“how most readers here think you are a tool”
How do you count? Do more readers think I’m a tool than think Redbaiter is a tool? Or that think you are a tool?
Doesn’t really matter. I don’t post here to win a popularity contest, I want to challenge myself and challenge others – some obviously don’t like that, they seem to think it’s their own wee club – as they abuse much of what DPF stands for.
Red knows if he wants some mutual backslapping he can hop over to the Rabbit. But he likes to draw attention to himself here, seems to think it will make the world a better place – for the few that remain after he has eliminated all his enemies.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
“So the onus is on individuals within the capitalist system to act kindly to the poor, not to the state to ensure they aren’t abused by the ruthlessness of it?”
Capitalism is not ruthless: it it simply the voluntary and mutually-beneficial exchange of goods and services.
Contrast that with the state-operated redistribution scheme based on coercion and which in practise constitutes nothing but a politicised trough which benefits not the poor (the hundreds of millions living on $2 a day) but the local special-interest groups mobilised to control the process. It is nothing but mob rule.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
So boobquake finally struck in Christchurch. Proof of mighty Allah’s wrath. He’s just been a bit busy over the past few months going over all evidence of licentiousness and sin.
Given this, I have a question. Two, in fact. In Islam, do women get to go to heaven? If so, when they get to heaven, are they transformed into men so they can get their 852 virgins or whatever it is?
September 4th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
tom hunter
Tom, that’s a little unkind. The Soviet bread queue was quite an innovation in its day.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
So sad. My heart goes out to the families of the dead.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Luc’s Hamas mates are at it again…
The slightest suggestion of peace and they up the violence.
When will the world wake up and deal with these evil murdering bastards?
September 4th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Jivekitty. No, but they still get their virgins. How he does it only KK and Pete know. Numbers just don’t add up here om earth.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
On Q + A this Sunday:
Paul Holmes interviews former South Canterbury Finance Chief Executive Sandy Maier about what went wrong and what chance taxpayers have of recovering the losses.
South Canterbury Finance’s collapse has its origins in the global financial crisis. Reserve Bank Governor Alan Bollard joins Guyon Espiner to talk about his new book, Crisis: One Central Bank Governor & the Global Financial Collapse and his battle to save our finance sector during the worldwide meltdown. Was the deposit guarantee scheme that saved SCF this week well conceived? Did anyone see this coming? And what does he really think of the government’s efforts to counter the crisis?
Paul and Martin Sneddon talk rugby. One year from RWC kick-off, are we ready? Or are the critics right to be sceptical?
Dr Therese Arseneau is joined on the panel by 2025 Taskforce head, the former Reserve Bank Governor and National Party leader, Dr Don Brash and Waitakere mayor Bob Harvey, who’s soon to take over development of the Auckland waterfront.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Good Heavens. NZ has made the front page in Aussie twice today.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/
September 4th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Should be no problem up there, just replicate a few ribs or fish or bread loaves or something.
September 4th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Pete, here’s what’s coming.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/poor-weather-forecast-for-first-days-of-royal-adelaide-show/story-e6frea83-1225913220997
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/north-east-victoria-on-flood-alert-from-heavy-rain-and-winds/story-e6frf7kx-1225913698797
“This is a significant event, it’s probably the biggest we’ve had in 15 years and we’re working hard to ascertain and get that message out and see what the impact is.”
September 4th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
More likely commit the fraud of repaired virgins Pete.
Lucia Maria reckons the earth never moves for the immaculate conception so i guess that’s what happened to all those women of Islam .
September 4th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
The prediction is for it to come straight across the Tasman, hit the West Coast (probably quite hard Sunday/Monday) and break up, so for the rest of the SI it depends on how much spills over the alps and sneaks around the bottom of the island. The east seems to be largely shielded by the hills. Until next weekend, when a more southerly storm is possible.
If virgins can get pregnant (especially good teenage virgins still living at home) then I guess anything’s possible.
September 4th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Yes, well, we have one of those. I’ve had a gentle word with her boyfriend while shapening a boltcutter. I think he got the message.
September 4th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
kk
The world is awake to it; the question is how to deal with it. Marginalisation over the long haul is the only solution I suspect. Gun barrel politics in the past has only ever got people to the table; it hasn’t actually represented a solution in itself – there’s plenty of evidence of that historically. Remove the reasons for Hamas to have any appeal to its recruitment pool and align Palestinian perceptions of Hamas to what they actually are and then maybe you can start getting traction. But that’s a pretty big ask in that region, nestled right up to the mad hatter states. The aspect that I always find perplexing is the apparent lack of support from the neighbouring non-nutter states when they have a clear vested interest. Hopefully there’s more going on behind the scenes.
It would indeed be interesting in hearing Luc explain this response without effectively justifying Hamas on the basis of Israel’s actions. Those types of responses on either side won’t take this shambles anywhere. The resolution in N Ireland necessitated the swallowing of some pretty big rats; notably in the form of Gerry Adams.
Clinton looked like the cat that got the cream in the paper so she seems happy with progress.
September 4th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
“If virgins can get pregnant (especially good teenage virgins still living at home) then I guess anything’s possible.”
Psst. I’ve got the coffee table he made while apprenticed to Ahab the carpenter of Bethlehem.
No reasonable offer refused.
September 4th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
@thedavincimode – Yes, Hillary looked pretty chuffed didn’t she. Further down in that Hamas story:
Sure he might be playing to the gallery, but this madman has plenty of oil yet needs nuclear technology to generate electricity. Riiiight.
September 4th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
I don’t take him seriously. He looks like a monkey. Maybe he wants it because he’s Green?
I suspect that eventually someone is going to blow those monkey ears right off his noggin. Hopefully it won’t be the neighbours on the other coast or things will get really bad.
September 4th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
“you know as well as I do that ‘baiter was sprung yet again”
What utter crap. You are one sick little lying puppy that is for sure. I have never had any other viewpoint (expressed on here often enough) except that there should be no restrictions on firearms ownership for law abiding and sane people. The reason I choose not to debate any issue with you Davinci I will say once more seeing you seem so fucking thick you cannot get it. You’re lowlife, a stalker and psychotic, and I simply choose not to waste time dealing with your sickness. Now fuck off you deranged whining lying little coward.
September 4th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
“How do you count?”
Most people remember well enough the contempt you garnered when karma was in use you deceitful spineless amoeba.
September 4th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
“there should be no restrictions on firearms ownership for law abiding and sane people”
Well it took you all day, but you got there. Well done blusterbaiter!
You’re probably a bit overwrought at the moment – answering a question directly and all – it will have taken it out of you, so I won’t trouble you with the more interesting next question which is how that will save democracy if the plagues of jihadist nutters pretend to be law-abiding until such time as they move onto full jihad alert. All I can think of at such short notice is something like an anti-jihad sensor that locks the gun – similar concept to the car locks for drunk drivers.
Be interested in your views at your convenience however.
September 4th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
What is it with you simpleton commies that you ask dumb question in the belief that answering them demands some kind of massive leap in logic and reason. In fact the inanities you call questions are nothing more than rank examples of a dysfunctional brain shackled by political concepts as thin as paper. Go away- you’re boring and insane, and like your good buddy Pete George, so prone to shameless lying there is absolutely no profit in attempting to reason with you.
September 4th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
“so prone to shameless lying”
“Never stalked anyone ever”
Redtroller lies again (and misses his self stoked karma).
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/09/general_debate_4_september_2010.html#comment-736225
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/09/general_debate_4_september_2010.html#comment-736230
September 4th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Well actually blusterbaiter, that question was an essential pre-requisite to you substantiating your assertion that gun laws should be liberalised, oops sorry, I should have said relaxed. So far you haven’t, and as I’ve pointed out earlier in the day, your subsequent comments regarding history and the defence of democaracy don’t do that. SO lets be clear, the empty assertion remains. I was just trying to reward you for taking that important first step – you know, a bit like giving a dog a biscuit for sitting on its hind legs.
September 4th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
You mentioned “military firepower” in your initial post. Does that include no restrictions on types of weapons. Automatics? Grenades? Rocket launchers? SAMs?
September 4th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Pete, virgins can get pregnant. We have our own personal example close to home. Her then boyfriend, now husband, when they were petting, had what she politely called a “spill” all over her nether regions and next thing she knew she was pregnant, but still a virgi as there had not been any penetration.
And don’t forget guys and girls, Dogs Bollix in Newton tomorrow evening, 5,30pm to 7.30pm, free entry, New Zealand musicians, humanitarian fundraiser for the suffering innocents of Gaza.
I’ve been meaning to do a post on my blog about the The Nation interview with the KIaOraGaza spokesman and interviewers Plunkett and others, all uniformly hostile and in particular, attacking the participants rather than discussing the real issue, the siege that remains in place even though condemned by the entire international community.
But my main argument was with a guest, David Zwartz. I have crossed swords with him before and he is yet another who promotes myth as historical fact. Even worse was his inhumane and condescending statement that Gaza is not in dire need because 250 trucks per day are permitted into the territory.
Well, 250 trucks is only a fraction of the estimated tens of thousands of trucks needed to return Gaza just to pre-siege days, and I would like to challenge Mr Zwartz how he thinks Auckland, with similar population numbers, although not as high a proportion of children, would fare under those conditions. No ships allowed in, no air fright arriving, just 250 trucks per day containing whatever the capricious and usually hostile Israeli officials determine is their version of humanitarian aid.
The siege is illegal because the expressed purpose of punishing the people of Gaza is collective punishment under international law, no matter how Israel’s spokespeople distort both the letter and the spirit of the international legal system.
However, even that is a red herring. Israel can only do what it does with the complicity and support of the US. That’s a fact. The country will quickly come into line when one day the US view changes and that change of view is followed by action, eg no longer exercising its veto power in favour of the most egregiously rogue state in the MIddle East.
Go the Warriors!!
September 4th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
er Luc, what about Hamas and the monkey man on the other coast getting into line? Any requirement for that?
September 4th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Viking2@3.4
Q + A this Sunday.
Well what you say will not happen, it is the ‘Phomes Show’
If only he would shut the fuck up and let someone finish a sentence.
Your ego needs stroking Phomes, put some oil on it
September 4th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Hey Johnboy. I’ve got an old stable in Bethlehem town here that I can rent you. Even find you an ass.
Luc Hansen (1,841) Says:
September 4th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Pete, virgins can get pregnant. We have our own personal example close to home. Her then boyfriend, now husband, when they were petting, had what she politely called a “spill” all over her nether regions and next thing she knew she was pregnant, but still a virgin as there had not been any penetration.
So that’s everyones pants off, but we didn’t do anything Sir! HMMM medical miracle.
September 4th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
It’s a virgin birth, viking, proving that it can happen.
And maybe Mary’s virgin wasn’t quite the miracle it is supposed to be – more a matter of her naughty Dad getting his jollies off!
Although, personally, I think it’s all just post-construct creative fiction!
September 4th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
davinci
monkey man?
Elucidate, please.
September 4th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
“Hey Johnboy. I’ve got an old stable in Bethlehem town here that I can rent you. Even find you an ass.”
Thanks but no thanks V2. My sheep get very jealous when I chase after stray ass.
September 4th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
“The cost of damage from today’s devastating quake could be as much as $2 billion, Earthquake Commission chief executive Ian Simpson says.”
I thought Key was lucky? Coming right on top of SCF, what are the rating agencies going to do?
P.S. Thank goodness no deaths reported yet. That’s the best kind of luck.
September 4th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Gwen Dire (“Moderate majority no threat to Demtards” even though the moderate majority, um, oppose the GZM) and the emaciated mong who looks like a smug academic being printed in today’s Huruld proves that rag’s total irrelevence in providing anything even resembling balanced, fact-based opinion journalism. What next? Oh, it’s McCarten tomorrow. Wonderful.
September 4th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
And these are supposed to be the people who tell us what we need to do, in an emergency.
September 4th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
reid (4,771) Says:
September 4th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Yep all that you wrote.
Pity we can’t get to their parents too.
re-education camps, were you thinking of the watermelons or just the poor beneficiaries?
September 4th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Jivekitty
It’s 72 virgins.
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=565
http://www.masada2000.org/BetterWorld.html
But dang they support Israel so for the LUC’s of this world
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2329/does-the-koran-really-promise-islamic-martyrs-72-virgins
September 4th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Both of course, Mike.
As well as some others…
September 4th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
“Luc’s of this world”
That’s nearly the whole world, Mike.
September 4th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
BTW, I would have thought a $2,000,000,000 estimate is too low, when you think of all the structural integrity checks that now have to take place , for every single workplace in ChCh.
Let alone every single house…
September 4th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
have we got that much in the bank?
September 4th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Mike, you fool, they get 72 raisins. It’s a translation error.
September 4th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
I just googled “eqc nz” to find out what was currently in the bank, and guess what?
Very first link said:
EXCELLENT service. Highly commendable.
September 4th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
Hurfie
re al qaeda
you should do as I do and get the inside info here
September 4th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Been working.
Tom Hunter- “I realise that people like Kaya have very little interest in what happens back on earth but down here I can say that the cars, planes, phones, computers, medicines, medical treatments, houses and almost everything else I use in everyday life are quite superior to what was available 30 years ago, let alone 50-100 years ago.”
It’s Earth I’m worried about, I have kids.
I don’t disagree that things get better, things improved from the stone age to the iron age to the bronze age, but I doubt many people made it onto the Fortune 500. Sure some products genuinely improve but most could be made better.
The rate we turn over equipment, cars, phones, tvs, whiteware is a waste of resources, most of it unnecessary.
How many blades has your razor got, 4? 5? A toothbrush that cleans your tongue? Give me a break!
I’m sure you know all about planned obsolescence. Is it socially responsible? Chasing profit causes businesses to push the consumption that constant turnover requires, wasting resources. But then we have to have choice, it’s our right huh?
Medicine and medical treatments? The vast majority of people in the world don’t have access to them because of greed.
I don’t disagree with our capitalist system, work hard and get rewarded, I disagree with the way some abuse it.
September 4th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Luv
That was a gratuitously denigrating reference to Mr Och Ma Dinna Jed! and his simian features.
I can accept the humanitarian concerns regarding what’s happening but playing tit for tat with madbaiter and his revivalist glee club todoesn’t fix the problem. I don’t think its practical to just ask Israel to go somewhere else irrespective of whether you think they should (I have no idea if you do) and I think they’ve indicated that they won’t anyway.
So, what’s the answer if nobody wants to leave, both parties see themselves as fighting for survival and we get this less than constructive but entirely predictable response to yet another peace initiative from Hamas and the mad Mr Och Ma Dinna Jad! ?
September 4th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
“It’s a virgin birth, viking, proving that it can happen.
And maybe Mary’s virgin wasn’t quite the miracle it is supposed to be – more a matter of her naughty Dad getting his jollies off! ”
The message I get from that is that condoms fail, abstinence fails, so all that’s left is anal sex. Never been all that interested myself, but if it prevents a baby, well, who am I to deny the revealed truth of the Bible?
September 4th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Er that was meant to be “Luc”
September 4th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
davinci
Let’s ignore your gratuitous racist insult to Ahmedinjad and cut to the chase
The humanitarian imperative is Gaza and the so-called peace process has nothing to do with it. The 1.5 million people of Gaza are being collectively punished for the heinous sin of allowing a bunch of armed thugs to oppress them, in addition to the oppression already imposed by an occupying force, Israel. The whole world condemns this, even Israel’s partner in occupation and war crimes, the USA.
Of course I don’t advocate Israel goes someplace else. That’s up to them. I do advocate that Palestinians ie the men and wome and children in the street, who are just like you and I and our families, be accorded the full human rights, including the right of self-determination, denied to them since 1945.
But even that has nothing to do with the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
The siege is illegal. The US is the only country preventing the imposition of sanctions on Israel to end the siege and, incidentally, to end the fighting by agreeing to two states based on the 1967 armistice lines.
The US is the elephant in the room, not misguided settlers in Palestine.
I urge you to support Palestinians caught up in this geo-political imbroglio, and one concrete act available to all of us is to support well-intentioned people trying to take humanitarian relief to the people of Gaza. It doesn’t mean another Holocaust will befall Jews.
And Ahmadinejad may be strident, but he is not mad. He is just a Persian G. W. Bush and, like Dubya, he is not permitted to run for re-election.
Let’s focus on ordinary humans, not the geo-politics. You can pop over to Kiwipolitico for that detached, academic analysis.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
“And Ahmadinejad may be strident, but he is not mad.”
Ha ha ha….
September 4th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
oops
Strike 1945 and write 1918, sorry.
Fot, takes one to know one, eh?
September 4th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Hahahahaha.
LEAVE MAHMOOD ALOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!
September 4th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
“Ahmadinejad may be strident, but he is not mad.”
Well this is quite the case, is it not?
Do you really imagine you could be a long-term President of Iran if you were fucking insane?
Honestly?
September 4th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Illegal? Nope. You might think it unnecessary or undesirable or immoral… but illegal it is not.
As to your point about sanctions, here is a list of sovereign nations. Please provide evidence that each of these, apart from the USA, endorses sanctions against Israel. You can’t of course, but that doesn’t stop you lying.
September 4th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
Roflmao.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=related
September 4th, 2010 at 11:01 pm
KK
This is what I meant:
the US is the only member of the Security Council that consistently exercises its veto in favour of Israel’s genocidal policies. And the few nations that support the US and Israel generally as regards Israel are Melanesia, Palau, Nauru, Marshall Islands and sometimes Australia and/or Canada, depending on the leadership of the day.
New Zealand, under the current mob, largely falls into line as well, by abstention, mainly, but National always has lacked principles when it comes to geo-politics.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
“National always has lacked principles when it comes to geo-politics”
The alternative view of which is National is pragmatic whereas Liarbore is idealistic: e.g. the nuke-free policy which has achieved precisely nothing in nuclear weapons reduction at a great cost to us as a nation.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
reid
where have you been for the last few elections?
National signed up to the nuke-free policy as well, eventually.
But if you prefer the interests of the few to hold sway over the interests of the many, well, you’re entitled to your opinion.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:33 pm
KK
By all means give us chapter and verse of why the siege is legal. I will enjoy dissecting it and liberating you from your delusions with truth.
September 4th, 2010 at 11:55 pm
Luc, the best thing to do, internationally, seldom coincides with the popular opinion.
I mean, do you want examples: e.g. Britain, 1930′s?
September 5th, 2010 at 12:01 am
For “but National always has lacked principles” read “not been reliably anti-Western enough.”
Though I figure Puke Hansen would be one of the few deluded enough to think the luddite anti-nuke policy was worth shit.
September 5th, 2010 at 6:17 am
When it says there is a series of 20:20 Cricket tests. Are those the official starting betting odds in Pakistan?
September 5th, 2010 at 8:50 am
Luc, by all means don’t dodge. You claimed the seige is illegal. The burden of proof is yours. Time to stop making shit up.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:19 am
You can’t see it can you Luc.
On the one hand you argue to depoliticise what is a human tragedy, but you concurrently politicise it by your criticism of the US and Israel. If you want to point the finger, then you’re about 60 or 70 years too late, if not longer.
The Palestinians are the meat in a 60 or 70 year old geo-political sandwich. Suggesting that the US is the elephant in the room is simply farcical. The reality is that whatever criticism you might choose to level at the US in tems of its motives, the US has been a persistent broker of a peaceful solution in the region. Yet again it has brokered a basis for the principals to move forward and yet again the same interests respond by setting out to undermine it.
Crapping on about what is or isn’t legal is a pointless exercise when the target of your criticism is under constant attack and threat. If you want to push it on humanitarian grounds good on you. But admonishing Israel and the US to the exclusion of the real obstacles to this shambles, being the elements that have a vested interest in actually prolonging it, only detracts from your objective.