September 15th, 2010 at 4:38 pm by David Farrar
- Applying for a passport in the name of a dead child is a seriously bad thing to do – even for someone in their 20s. I myself had some well known legal problems in my 20s, but was never this stupid.
- It was 26 years ago. By itself it does not make himself ineligible to be an MP, or even a law & order spokesperson.
- The decision by the court in 2005 to discharge without conviction was in my opinion correct, but the granting of name suppression was wrong. There should have been some consequences for the offending.
- David Garrett was right to disclose this to the ACT Party when he sought nomination.
- It was a incredibly bad call to not disclose it publicly prior to him entering Parliament – even more so considering his high profile on law & order issues.
- Thinking it would not eventually come out, reflects bad political judgement on behalf of both Hide and Garrett.
- As far as I know, a defendant is able to breach his own name suppression, and reveal his or her own court experiences. Using name suppression as a reason not to have revealed this earlier is a cop out.
- This, along with the Tongan assault conviction, seriously undermines Garrett’s ability to continue as law and order spokesperson. I’d put Heather into that portfolio, and move Garrett into other areas where he has a strong background such as industrial relations.
- Again, if this had been disclosed in 2008, I doubt it would have received more than a passing “Wow what a stupid thing to do when you were young”, and it would not be hurting ACT today, when they least need this.
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September 15th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
DPF – what are the requirements for MP’s to disclose? Is there some register of convictions?
[DPF: No - there is no requirement]
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Theres no way he can remain in politics.
A person who steals the identity of dead babies has damaged their credibility beyond repair.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
As far as I know, a defendant is able to breach his own name suppression, and reveal his or her own court experiences.
Nope.
[DPF: Okay, but the chance of facing legal sanction for doing so must be miniscule. I'm talking about cases where the defendent asked for name recognition, and it doesn't involve any of the victims etc]
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Dear Rodney,
I’m a liability to the ACT party because I am stupid and dumb and I resign.
Signed
Vote:David Garrett
September 15th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
first the nonsense over Heather Roy, now this with Garrett.
Does ACT have a death wish, or is someone white anting Garrett to get him to stand down. Would the next one on the list be a Douglas/Roy supporter by any chance?
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
ACT have zero credibility now.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
DPF he is gone, no way can he stay in Parliment. Next there will be MOSAD agents in the SIS.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
I actually think this is a hanging offence. The assult conviction is quite probably not sound and can be overlooked. Ironically I was a little suprised that the offence was outside of the statute of limitations. I really have difficulty with the prank excuse.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
There’s no other f-ing right wing party to vote for though, is there.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Big wow and who cares? This pissanting hand wringing about re Garrett and trival bullshit is getting old fast.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Yet again, DPF, your political zeal is showing. Had this been a Labour MP in 2007 you and the rest of the glee club would have been all over it, calling for heads to roll. Garrett must resign. If he refuses, he must be sacked. Hide should go too, as he covered it up. The issue here is can Key maintain his credibility with Hide in his Cabinet, knowing he covered up such a despicable act, no pun intended. The prank excuse is pathetic, as is your defense of him.
[DPF: Please stop lying about me. You have done this several times now, claiming what I would have done. Go away and find an example of where I have called for a Labour MP to resign from Parliament for a criminal offence committed 26 years ago]
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
Would those without sin please join the line to lambast David Garrett…? Anyone…hello?
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
What an idiot.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
My thoughts on Farrar:
1. If you were put in Rodney Hide’s position as leader of the ACT party, and given the fact that the opposition will harp on about something if revealed at any stage regardless of severity or truthfulness (e.g. Nick Smith being on medication) you would have made the exact same decision not to disclose against the risk of it becoming public.
[DPF: Nope my advice is almost always towards pro-active disclosure]
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
One law for all huh? – if he has any shred of decency remaining he should leave…….NOW
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I wish there was another right wing party to vote for. Seems like ACT is just a bunch of misfits.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Now that was quick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrett_(politician)#Obtaining_a_Passport_by_False_Pretences
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
@James-Jesus how can you even contemplate defending this guy not only only has been convicted of Assault, and taking the name of a dead child to get an Official Passport – He is supposed to be the LAW & ORDER spokesman, he didn’t dip his wick anywhere he should not have (well he may have, but it would certainly not be as big a deal) he is not guilty of a moral indiscretion.
Riddle me this, if it was an Arab kebab shop owner in Palmerston Nth who was caught taking the name of a dead child for a passport, would you be so forgiving? what about a Sth Akl overstayer who was convicted of assault?
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
It happened 25 years ago, and justice was done. Not worried about the crime itself – half of parliament has some sort of dodgy past. But douchebag should have disclosed his brushes with the law up front. It might even have strengthened his argument. He could have said “Look, I’m no saint either, but I think it’s important that our system of justice serves as a proper deterrent. It has certainly deterred me!” Now he looks like even more of an embarrassment than he was before.
Confirmation of how ridiculous ACT is: Garry Mallett couldn’t even remember hearing about it. The Party President!! I think I would remember something like that if I was President and vetting candidates. What a fucking mickey mouse outfit they are. They deserve to fade into oblivion next year, and hopefully we will get some flowers of freedom growing out of the corpse.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
3. The decision by the court in 2005 to discharge without conviction was in my opinion correct,
oh yeah and why is that ? do you know something we don’t ?
or is it that the passage of time lessens the crime ?
like if i killed someone in 1984 and didn’t get caught til 2005 but i didn’t kill anyone in the intervening years, i should get a reduced sentence for good behaviour yeah ?
Is that how it works or does that only work for white lawyers, represented by white lawyers in a court presided by a white judge ?…fucking bullshit and you know it !!!
need i remind you the guy…
KNOWINGLY AND INTENTIONALLY ASSUMED THE IDENTITY OF A DEAD BABY !!!
that’s as offensive a crime as there is and what sort of punishment did he get ?
NONE AT ALL !!!
and justice was done
NO..it wasn’t, and it wasn’t even seen to be done because of name supression.
[DPF: 10 demerits for fucking bullshit]
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
If the Law Society had known about this when he sought to get admitted to the bar he would never have been given a certificate of good character. He is a callous dishonest fraudster who has seriously added to the distress of grieving parents. Most of the people who got caught in the big Internal Affairs sweep went to jail.
Vote ACT, our spokesman on crime is a dyed-in-the-wool expert.
Oh, and another display of stunning judgment by Rodney Hide to find such a suitable candidate for a party of hypocrites.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
“Does ACT have a death wish, or is someone white anting Garrett to get him to stand down. Would the next one on the list be a Douglas/Roy supporter by any chance? ”
No
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
I cannot figure out why he did this. To say it was some sort of prank does not wash with me, though he did get a section 106 and with permanent name suppression. Just imagine if his 3 strikes legislation was in force. He cannot credibly continue in his present role, he was a nutcase on law and order issues anyway. I would like to see him shoot through quite frankly, but does this mean Rodney loses control over caucus???
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
OK, that’s two stikes…. who’s got the third one to pin on him….. Time for a snap election, put this tardy business to the test of the voters.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Heather Roy for PM !
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
If you want my thoughts on Garrett the stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming and ACT is dog tucker. It will not survive this.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Unelected Muppet.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
ACT’s Roll of Crooks: Awatere-Huata, Garrett, – not bad for such a tiny group, why do they seem to attract them? and of course Rodney showed his colours with his nose in the trough – the party has no moral weight left.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
micky, some people said that Paula Bennett wouldn’t survive the disclosure of benefit details of someone who challenged her, I wouldn’t be surprised if Garrett remains in parliament.
edit: for the record, I now believe Bennett is one of nationals better ministers.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
PARTY VOTE ACT – ZERO TOLERANCE FOR CRIME!
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Good call. A bit of righteous indignation from the host is always fun to watch
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
DPF he is gone, no way can he stay in Parliment. Next there will be MOSAD agents in the SIS.
We could only hope…
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Now that I know this happened many many years ago I retract me earlier condemnatiion of Garrett, yes it was a dumb thing to do but we all did dumb things when we were young.
The lefty scum are beating this up to be far more than it is, where is the flase outrage about….
Keith Locke being a supporter of Pol Pot
Phil Goff being a supporter of the Khmer Rouge.
Brafords numerous convictions.
John Hatfields (aka Hone Harawira) numerous convictions.
David Parker’s shady dealings.
Stick to your guns Mr Garrett, the house needs people like you.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
The crime Garrett committed of assuming the identity of a deceased person is absolutely disgraceful. If when Garrett stood for Parliament the ACT leader was Richard Prebble rather than Rodney then Garrett would have been been told in no uncertain terms to shove off and go look for another party. A leader’s judgement is everything in politics. Rodney’s judgement is clearly suspect as this was not only an accident waiting to happen, but shows that Garrett is clearly a fruitloop. Couldnt Rodney see this? I am amazed.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Mike S – yes get rid of all candidates in ACT who are female (Roy, Awatere,Newman), ethnic (Awatere, Wang), from a working class background like Garrett, drink, smoke, do drugs or a little bit of a risk politically because they have committed sins 25+ years ago when they freely admit to being a dumb fuck before straightening themselves out.
You’d be complaining then that ACT is a rich white man’s party full of boring people who dress in black suits and go to bed by 10pm with milk and cookies.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
@Tom Gould: as someone who’s actually read most of what DPF’s written twice, his answer is quite correct and you are blowing smoke out of your rear based on your prejudices. DPF is usually quite consistently liberal when it comes to former offenses.
*My* view of this particular matter is he should go completely. He’s just a joke now.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Garrett can go when all MP’s who have: convictions going back 25+ years, discharges without conviction going back 25+ years, called people white mofo’s, earned DIC’s and those who have ever been in a fight, done drugs, got drunk in public. When they all go, we can add Garrett to that list and he can go too. I will accept that.
Someone once posted a list on Kiwiblog of MP’s in the House and all their sins. Lets have a close look at that again if that person is reading.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
How would Garrett have revealed this earlier? It was covered by a permanent suppression order so even if he was brave enough to tell anyone – no one in the media could run it.
It seems no one told Guyon about that before he blew the whistle at midday. I wonder if a conviction and $750 fine will come his way?
And in terms of his future with ACT, he had told Rodney so it would be very tough to then sack him for not revealing a conviction he didn’t get.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
I must say I was amused by his Wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrett_(politician) must have been a few road to Damascus moments
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Did he actually use the passport in question? If not (and I guess from the discharge without conviction that he didn’t) then he didn’t actually “assume the identity” of anyone.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Scrubone – he was a joke long before today. It’s only now that Act fans are starting to see it.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
What a bunch of hand wringing whinging socialists and this used to be a right wing blog. Its just about descended to red alert status.
All those who lambasted whale for his stance on name suppression and who now accuse Garret of a cover up are complete hypocrites.
Vote:If you want to dig into MP’s pasts and convictions then go search our history. Plenty of bad bastards been in Parliament and worse plenty of thieves and con men and the like. Before the last election we had the biggest bunch of dishonest thieving bastards in charge in our history and many of you still revere them.
Do the names Clark, Peters, Glen, Carter, Cullen et al ring any bells?
Does $800,000 or $156000 ring any bells.
What faux outrage from the wankers eh.
September 15th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Cactus, I think you’re missing the point. Garrett’s parliamentary career has been built on law and order and yet he has not publicly disclosed his own offending. It’s entirely relevant to his credibility. Potentially, he could have used his discharge without conviction to argue for sensible sentencing (but not the permanent suppression order IMO). It’s not the fact of his offences, its his failure to disclose them (and the argument regarding the supression order only arises because he applied for it).
A child died, the parents would have been traumatised enough by this, but to have the death used for a “prank” is appalling and does not compare with DICs or drug offences.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
DPF, stop being silly. No Labour MP has been revealed to have “commmited a criminal offense 26 years ago”. More relevant, which Labour MPs have you suggested should resign from Parliament?
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
Obviously it was a stupid thing to do but it was a long time ago and the fact he was discharged without conviction indicates the judge felt it was at the bottom of the scale of offending. It sounds like something that he did “to see if it could be done” without thinking of the seriousness.
The main point of discharging without convictions and the clean slate act is to that minor offenses that people commit perhaps while young and foolish will not blight them for the rest of their life.
There are plenty of people walking around who have convictions and a greater number who have “gotten away” with speeding, drug use, fraud, assault, underage sex, public urination, drunkenness and the like which if a policeman in a bad mood had walked by at the wrong time would have landed them with a serious conviction.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Sorry David this clown cannot remain in parliament. He no longer has any credibility on any issue not just law and order. As much as the identity theft which is a crime we are all very conscious these days. We have past demonstations of Rodhey Hides political judgement but this as undermined the both of them even further.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
I like Garrett, he was the only one that stood up vocally against the foreshore and seabed act (other than hone, but for different reasons) and wanted to repeal the anti-smacking law. He was right about the politicians spitting on the voters after they voted against his bill in Parliament. I think this is a hack job by National and John Key. The only way voters can get their say is by binding referendums. MP’s lack principle except for the greens but their motives are too red for my blood (no pun intended).
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
It is quite straight forward to get a Passport in an new name, if you are willing to change your name by deed and then apply for new passport.
The only disadvantage is that the new passport carries history with it, that is, reference back to change of name on birth certificate, , and continuance of birth date.
Although Government agencies do not notice these discrepancies Credit companies do, they cross reference dates and addresses, and various other things .
The system has moved since the Garrett adventure, and you can not easily get credentials referring to other people dead or alive.
Vote:peterquixote
September 15th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Well takes your choices guys. If Act don’t remain committed to Govt you get left with National and Maori.
Vote:Seabed and Foreshore anyone.
No more whitebait or free swimming.
Guess it would mana from heaven for you socialists.
September 15th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
As far as I know, a defendant is able to breach his own name suppression and reveal his or her own court experiences,
Vote:While I haven’t read any comments above who may have pointed this out I know for a fact you are wrong there. However they can reveal their own court experiences provided that such revelation does not link them to a specific case that would identify that suppressed name.
September 15th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
CK – it’s really good to see where your ethical standards lie – Huata’s ethnicity has nothing to do with it – she is a crook, Garrett stole a dead child’s identity – but you’re obviously fine with that – and Rodney showed his hypocrisy, from perk buster to wallowing in the trough – but again, you obviously approve.
This is a startlingly bad record for such a tiny party.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
labrator says:
Wouldn’t it be a lot easier if Garrett were an electorate MP and subject to recall or recoverable proxy. Then the people who put him there, and to whom, he was accountable, could sack him.
That way Act (and every other party) would not be able to get away with tolerating a violent fraudster in their midst (which it looks as though they’re more than happy to do in return for SST support), and it wouldn’t be an issue.
Cactus:
Convictions for what? Drunk and disorderly? No, most 20 something year olds would have done that, if not been convicted of it. Identity theft and fraud… uh, yeah. Or would you be happy if the Act caucus was found to be hiding a few of Pol Pot’s henchmen, just because some other caucus might be harbouring an undisclosed panty thief? It’s a matter of degree, obviously. And anyone with a serious undisclosed conviction ought to have to re-submit themselves to the electorate.
Aside from DICs those aren’t convictions. And there’s more than one politician I can think of who’s been Minister of Transport and had to resign after committing a traffic offence. Garrett set himself up as someone who could lecture the rest of us on our latent criminality and the punishments we should suffer… now we see he not only has feet of clay, but they’re buried beneath a very large pile of something that isn’t clay.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
No Paul the point is quite easy to spot – politics and yet another (yawn) “get ACT” campaign from detractors of the Party.
ACT’s law and order policy is just that – ACT’s. It is the most popular policy within the ACT Party and at conferences and amongst the membership is the most widely supported. While David Garrett is the spokesman, it is definitely a members policy and a popular one. David Garrett is what he is, a once very rough man who has by all accounts turned his life around and come good relevant to what he used to be like.
If you want another preppy twat speaking about law and order then go speak to FIGJAM Power.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
Just watched the personal statement in the house and have read a few of his blogs it is difficult not to have a degree of admiration of the guy. He has done what Carter failed to do. I would have to say I have done some fucking stupid things in my life fortunatly for me not criminal and I have definatly broken the law just not been caught for it or if caught given a kick in the pants and told to grow up. Garrett’s handling of this has been good today but had he fronted up about this when the assult allegations broke it would have been better. Hyde has no choice but to back him so he is safe but I suspect his parliamentary career is over in just over a years time.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
“…a harmless prank”
A prank normally involves someone else and everyone has a laugh. Getting a passport in the name of a dead child is not a prank. And trying to portray it as such makes you look very strange. Unless Garrett comes up with a better explaination for this odd behaviour (and assuming it’s not something even more weird) then I think he’s toast.
And unfortunately ACT are looking more and more like toast as well. Shame. Roger Douglas must be turning in his grave. Oh, wait. He’s still alive. Just dead silent and almost invisible.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Cactus, in this instance, no one “got ACT”, this is clearly self-inflicted. And BTW, this is politics remember – playing politics for politicians is hardly exceptional. Did Hide and Garrett genuinely think this issue wouldn’t surface? How incredibly naive.
ACTs law and order policy might be extremely popular with the members, but did they know it’d be fronted by a man who’d not be honest about his past?
I’m sure the public will finally determine whether this matter is important or not.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Its pretty clear this is another smear campaign from Heather Roy and her cronies. Garrett voted to boot her out, and this is how he pays for it.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
This is great news. With all the income from fines the media will be paying for breaching the name suppression order, we’ll be able to afford another round of tax cuts. The deterrent effect of Whaleoil being fined lasted less than 24 hours.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Bugger; the one day when I didn’t MySky Parliament before I went to golf …
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
“Garrett set himself up as someone who could lecture the rest of us on our latent criminality and the punishments we should suffer… now we see he not only has feet of clay, but they’re buried beneath a very large pile of something that isn’t clay”.
Garrett was discharged without conviction Rex on one count and received a massive $10 fine while an expat in Tonga for a fight he seemed never to have landed a punch over. In both cases he received punishment as the law in each country stood. If he was a hardened criminal or the “violent fraudster” you have termed him, don’t you would think he would advocate lesser sentences rather than harsher ones? He assisted in creating law that in the future will be harder on him if he ever offends while under that law.
To tag him a “violent fraudster” on the basis of a $10 fine from Tonga for a fight he suffered a haymaker from behind in which he was fined a tenth of his opponent and an incident he was never actually convicted, is about as remarkably careless as deeming you a name for something you were found not guilty over.
“And anyone with a serious undisclosed conviction ought to have to re-submit themselves to the electorate”. What serious conviction is that in Garrrett’s case? Because I hardly deem a $10 fine from a 3rd world country where he was an expat for a fight where he didn’t seem to land a punch, to be serious? And if you were talking of the other incident, again – never convicted.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
My thoughts on Garret:
There are f”k all times that I agree with Mickey Savage over at The Standard, but this is one of them.
Credibility zero. Time to go. You won’t be missed.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
TV3 is salivating over “The end of the ACT party”. The prospect of the political spectrum moving further left is positively intoxicating for them.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
Paul Williams – yeah the information about Garrett just floated up due to Garner and Espiner’s award winning journalism skills when one day they both thought, “oh lets look at David Garrett months after 3 strikes was passed and see if we can find a case from years ago where his name was suppressed and check our huge network in Tonga to find out about a case where he was fined $10″….and no I am not accusing the Opposition parties of anything here in breaking this story to the media.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
I agree that the assault charge is a nothing Cactus.
But stealing the identity of dead babies is not nothing. It’s seriously repugnant.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Garrett is surely the best thing to happen to ACT since the delightful Donna Awatere-Huata. Will somebody please take this pitiful party out the back and shoot it? What’s happening at present is simply inhumane.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Hey look everyone, i got…
[DPF: 10 demerits for fucking bullshit]
Garrett got off scot free for stealing a dead baby’s identity !!!
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
..stealing the identity of a dead baby…what a filthy scumbag…your credibility just went down the shithouse..resign you p.o.s…
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
I wonder if this has been well timed, or if it just took this long to dig something up? Perhaps it’s to distract from something else, perhaps it’s to even up for the media treatment of Chris Carter. Skullduggery is still rampant in NZ politics.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
I am horrified by the sordid antics and sick backgrounds of our disgraceful MP’s. When will it stop! Yeah right not in this country mate.
No wonder the public view them as lower than a pus ball. Sack the lot of them and start again FFS!
What a sick Beehive.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
Garrett is a complete liability to a party which has very little going for it already, apart from the tireless and unrewarded efforts of John Boscawen.
For the only right wing party in Parliament, and taking into account the complete spinelessness of the National government, they really are proving themselves to be completely fucking inept.
Garrett should go.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
Well past time to clean up that cess pit Beehive!
Would a REAL LEADER PLEASE STAND UP.
Sit down John Boy Wee!!!
Garret should get whips from the cane. FFS what a sick – sad country run by wimps.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Cactus don’t be naive, nobody sane questions that the info. was fed to the media that is life in the public glare what the hell did you expect them to do ? It would be very interesting to know who fed it to the media, we will never know but I would hesitate before saying it wasn’t self inflicted by Act.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
That surely does not have to be the case at all. You are presuming a lot there about the electorates. Do you think Rodney will loose Epsom at the next election?
Winston Peters kept winning Tauranga. And Philip Fields surely would have had a good chance to continue to hold on to his electorate.
The notion that list MPs are not accountable is simply wrong. Garrett is the proof of that. He has done more damage to ACT than he possibly could have in an electorate. He is held accountable to all New Zealanders and not just a randomly selected few.
So is Hide. But he may be able to hang on to Epsom, no matter what. But with polling at 1.3% it will be very lonely.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
26 years ago I regularly drove drunk (and I don’t mean just over the limit), used a version of what is now known as “P” (we called it no-doze or methamphetamine) regularly during busy times, regularly drove vehicles I had no license for, occasionally used recreational drugs, worked with a fellow who sold same in large quantities and allowed me to play with a .22 pistol he’d scored from a Russian fishing boat.
Nah, I’ll not criticize Mr Garrett.
Just note that 26 years ago was a bloody long time ago, in fact a different life.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
I think your take is on target, David – and so is Cactus Kate’s. Watching him during in the House today was painful. I really like him on a personal level and his distress was apparent. But “stealing a dead baby’s identity” is such an over-loaded way to describe what he did.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
David Garrett will be speaking in my town on Sunday.
He will not get a pleasant response.
That conviction in Tonga; what a farce. But the biggest idiot is Garrett. He had heaps of political capital to make out of it.
After lots of reading I have found that he had his jaw broken in two places. He had to eat puree meals for six months because of the injury he sustained. The Tongan court ruled that after he had had his jaw broken in two places he assaulted a victim. There was a witness to the assault. Yeah, right, the witness was not within three kilometres of the event! Hands up all of those Labour Party people, particularly people like Chris Carter and Grant Robertson, who could commit a serious assault whilst they were suffering from a jaw that was broken in two places.
Imagine if he had made these facts public knowledge before he was elected. Every time Tapu Misa comes up with glib crap about the Pacific Islands being such wonderful places, Garrett would have been in position to make her look, incontrovertibly, as stupid as most of us know her to be.
But he stuffed up; big time.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
I don’t get this debate at all?? Isn’t there ‘spose to be a Court imposed supression order on naming this perp? I wonder if that nasty Judge Harvey is wringing his hands in glee, reading this blog..???
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Garrett may have told Rodney everything in 2008 but neither of them told the ACT Party Board nor the Party itself. So the board chose Garrett as No. 5 on the list without knowing these facts. An already divided board will be asking for some serious explaining from Hide and Garrett over this.
Also, I now await the Police investigation into the bloggers who are discussing this case and naming names that are subject to a permanent suppression order. Whaleoil’s appeal is starting to look better and better.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
The whole thing with ACT leaves me feeling sad. empty and disappointed.
All that time put in fighting the good fight, and this is where the end begins, as without doubt, it’s ACT fall from grace. It isn’t just this one event, it’s simply death by a thousand cuts.
There are some fine arguments here explaining Mr Garrett’s position, and they all make sense. But the people putting those arguments know, that, at the end of the day perception is reality. If the voters perceive, however factually incorrect they are, that ACT is simply a bunch of hypocrites, then that is reality.
The saddest thing for me is that this was predicted long ago, when Rodney became leader and the ‘idealists’ lost to the ‘populists’.
The populists undoubtedly put ACT on the electoral map, but the seeds of defeat were sown the moment they became populist. Really ACT has become something like NZ First. The harder line, more populist a politician becomes, the more likely they are to end up sticking their great feet in their mouths and turn into hypocrites.
My only hope is that the imminent demise of ACT presents to opportunity for a new libertarian-lite political party to emerge from the ashes…
… ‘Gareth Morgan for Parliament’ anyone?
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Timing is everything. If yesterday Judge Harvey had used his reputed insight into the power of the internet, he could have made reference to the fact that name suppression laws are useless and he could have used the opportunity to express his views and been an advocate for change. But no, he was without doubt, mindful of his superannuation package. If he had done that, today he would be a hero. Instead, Garretts outing today has made an even greater mockery of the judiciary and in turn, turned Whale an even greater hero to his cause.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
When the left starts calling for the resignation of Len Brown because of misusing his credit card, I’ll call for the resignation of anyone on the right. I wish the world was different, but on the left they never resign, so the right should not feel pressured to do so either: a level playing field please.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
I’m not much interested in the Act Party but it occurs to me that given Hide knew about Garrets criminal record then that left Garret beholden to Hide.
So when the recent vote to oust Roy as deputy leader was taken, Hide knew he could rely on Garrats deciding vote to get rid of her from her position.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
If it was A-OK for Berzerk Ebola to hang out with Bill Ayers because he stopped bombing things twenty years prior, it’s A-OK for Garrett to be Act’s law and order spokeman because his passport fraud dalliance happened twenty years prior.
Two can play at their game.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Garrett has as much appeal as pond scum. Taking anyone elses identity is just revolting and he should have seen the interior of a prison cell. By calling it a prank, he dishonors the memory of the child that died. The parents of this child not only had their grief renewed at the time of the court case but have been freshly reminded of the despicable act by these latest revelations. Saying sorry is not enough. As a parent affected like this, I would epect justice to be served. By covering these crimmnal acts up, Hide and his henchmen have once for all demonstrated that ACT is not fit to be in our Parliament. I would epect not only Garrett to go but for Rodney to resign too. Hopefully Epsom will have a real election next time!
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Why do you think the left want Garrett to resign? I sure don’t! Having Carlos “David Garrett” the Jackal as ACT’s major spokesman into the next election is pure, pure gold.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
“Don’t fuck with Heather Roy” has to be the message here, doesn’t it?
The next one on the ACT list (Hillary Calvert) is a staunch neo-lib who will support Roy and Douglas and reject the Garrett/Hide populist/authoritarian stuff. The tide may turn, and ACT return to being a party of principles (albeit still the wrong ones imo, but at least I have more respect for Roy and Douglas than the other ACT MPs).
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
It’s not the offences, though the passport is pretty damn stupid, like really stupid.
Vote:It’s being in based on Law & Order from an agenda based on naming criminals & no forgiveness basically, to not disclose your own misdemeanors in this scenario is rank stupidity & hypocrisy almost of the level of a perk buster who drinks at the trough through like the best of them once he has a hot chick to impress.
The sad part is ACT as pure economic agenda party had a future, it’s all the other crud like law & order etc & to be fair relatively minor perk busting as opposed to significant items like tax & govt expenditure as % of GDP ( I know you start saving with pennies, but this is politics not the real world ) have so diluted the message that I have to ask, what does ACT stand for ????.
Minority parties have to have a clean agenda, like the environmental policies of the Greens I think to survive, to broad an agenda & they fade into minime’s of their coalition partners.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
You’re dissembling, Cactus. I’ve daid clearly yesterday that I thought Garrett should never have been arrested, let alone convicted, for the assault. But nor should a lot of other people, some now languishing in our jails and fair game, according to him, for anal rape.
A “violent fraudster” is precisely the way Garrett would characterise someone with an assault conviction who’d also been found guilty of identity theft. Many of the people he condemns in pursuit of gathering a pitchfork-and-burning-torch crowd behind him would have equally valid excuses for their behaviour and perhaps, like him, not have deserved one or more of their past convictions. One “armed robber” may have poked their finger in their hoodie pocket and said they had a gun in a desperate bid for drugs; another may have executed a planned robbery using loaded weapons with money as the object. Yet in Garrett’s world there is no distinction; no understanding to be had; they’re both “criminal scum” and whatever their sentences, they wouldn’t be long enough.
He shows no empathy nor makes any allowance for the possible injustices people have faced before condemning them and therefore I cannot find it in myself to offer him any understanding either.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
I agree. It’s a storm in a tea cup, but seeing how as politics is all about perception, I suggest the most principled course of action for ACT is to change Garrett’s responsibilities and drop him down the list for the next election at which point, hopefully he will resign.
He’s contaminated goods.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
MT_Tinman confesses:
Are you an MP? If so, did you hide such behaviour from party officials and the voting public when standing for office? Since being elected have you postured about portraying yoursdelf as disgusted with precisely the same behaviour as that in which you indulged on the past, thus making you a rank hypocrite?
Have you managed to stupify the idiots in Parliament ito passing a law which will punish other offenders far more harshly than you yourself were punished, thus making you even more/i> of a hypocrite?
No? Well carry on then…
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Have you managed to stupify the idiots in Parliament ito passing a law which will punish other offenders far more harshly than you yourself were punished, thus making you even more of a hypocrite?
Rex
All I can say is well said …
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
Sad too see so many who profess to be on the right so easily manipulated by the solidly left wing media. This was 26 years ago and he was discharged without conviction. Its a non event and this bullshit about stealing a baby’s identity is just weak arsed crap. If you’re all going to cave this easy then honestly this country has got nowhere to go but even further to the left. Grow a fucking spine and stop being so easily manipulated by the commies who dominate the media. When the damn hell are you people going to start fighting the left instead of climbing over each others backs to kiss their arses? Just a pack of gullible wimps. (Cactus and a few others excluded of course).
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
Sorry red, I’m pretty Liberterian, but I can’t see any defence to this that makes sense. Why would you wake up one day and say to yourself “lets get a fake passport”? Then go to those lenghts to get one? I would be unlikely to think about getting a second drivers’ licence … unless I had a ulterior reason
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
“Sorry red, I’m pretty Liberterian,”
Sorry RP, I don’t see what that’s got to do with it. I’m a right wing Conservative and I find most Libertarians to be navel gazing misguided fuckwits who don’t have a clue regarding political strategy. I’ll concede you may not be one of those Libertarians, but this is just a beat up designed to destroy (1) Garret and (2) ACT, orchestrated by the left wing media, and if we are going to so easily let these fake journalists continue to set the debate then its all over for New Zealand.
Nothing will change here unless people wake up to how the left wing media are leading everybody by the nose. They have to be confronted. There’s no issue here. Its a complete beat up. The left wing media want to get ACT and Garret. End of Story.
(edit- look back up the thread and see all the lefties who are on your side. That should be enough to wake you up to what a scam this whole thing is)
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
Get real redbaiter – this isn’t a left v right argument. This is about hypocrasy of the highest idea not too mention just plain creepy and repugnant.
But since left v right is the only way you can think (strange that you call yourself redbaiter when black and white seem to be the only colours in your spectrum – but I digress!), let me ask you this:
If it was an MP from the “left’ that had done what Garrett had done would you be so charitable??
No I thought not.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:26 pm
(substitute ‘idea” in the first line to “order”)
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Oh, by libertarian, I mean I don’t believe in asking the state for the right to pass through ports nor drive a car or a motorbike in my own counrty. But I conform because if I don’t the bastards tax me when they abuse my rights and detain me in the interests of “road safety” for a check of my “papers”.
My views would suggest that I should take a fake passport about as serriously as back-street photocopies of the center-fold of Hustler, and actually that is where I get to with the act. Its just what he was possibly intending that bothers me a bit.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:39 pm
“This is about hypocrasy of the highest idea not too mention just plain creepy and repugnant.”
That’s not even coherent but if it was it would be just as much crap. Its nothing but an attempt by the left and their mainstream media plants to get ACT and Garret, and if you think I’m going to be moved by appeals from commies like you, you must be even more intellectually incoherent than you are literally. The crescendo of complaints all targeting the same issues is even more proof of how orchestrated the whole thing is.
I repeat my message to right wingers- You can either be content to be a victim of the left’s manipulation or be your own person. Your call.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:03 am
Act is gaining a reputation as a party of clowns that is going to be hard to escape. This is sad as it was once a party of high principles, which agree with it or not, made a valuable contribution to political thought.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:26 am
I am really struggling to get my head around what is going on in this country, there appears to be one set of rules for one group of people and one set of rules for another group of people. I guess if you go to the right schools and universities, and are socially connected to the right people there are people in the system that will look after you.
I have my doubts about the transparency and sincerity of the judicary in this country.
I had better be careful what i say as big brother is probably observing this blog.
Are we heading towards a disguised dictatorship???
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:28 am
I can’t decide what’s more amusing, the implosion of ACT or a hypocritical redbaiter going into overdrive.
Imagine Keith Locke pulling such a stunt 26 years ago. Would it matter if it were 26 years ago? Of course not. Red would be hopping mad, foaming, demanding his head (more than he already does). Just imagine the words he would use.
But not so if it’s one of his own. Then totally different rules apply.
Vote:You are a right wing, conservative hypocrite par excellence.
September 16th, 2010 at 12:39 am
“Red would be hopping mad, foaming, demanding his head”
The left are so desperately inadequate when their bullshit is confronted that all they can come up with is a totally false scenario and then to attack on the basis of that falsity.
You’re going down like flies in the US because the people are finally awakening to the fact that deceit is your primary modus operandi.
The same awakening is going to come here in NZ too, so do the best you can in the short time you’ve got remaining.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:48 am
Redbaiter is so desperately inadequate when his bullshit is confronted that all he can come up with is a totally false scenario and then to attack on the basis of that falsity.
You are such a parody of a right winger, red, I sometimes suspect you secretly work for the standard.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:53 am
deceit seems to be more the MO of ACT given the recent events
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:53 am
Nice to Ezzie Baby changed his nappy fast enough to post a few more words here.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:59 am
I’m still amazed that he got discharged without conviction for what is about the most serious identity fraud possible. Hopefully more to come on that.
As for David’s laughable assertion that we should ” find an example of where I have called for a Labour MP to resign from Parliament for a criminal offence committed 26 years ago” The name David Benson-Pope springs to mind.
Epic fail Mr Farrar.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:00 am
Those without sin who want to condem Garrett…? Anyone…? Thought not…so shut up and fuck off….
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:03 am
funny you should say that, as it was Garrett who was portraying himself to be without “sin” and condemning others.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:09 am
Thanks for that James, now no-one can ever condemn anyone for anything. I for one will be looking forward to you putting that resolution into practice in your own posts.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:30 am
Fuck off sonic. Garrett has done bugger all some 25 yeras ago…big whoppdee doo.Labour MPs have lied and shat on Mr and Mrs NZ recently just how many times…?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:35 am
Honestly, do you not think it would have been a good idea to not make your law and order speaker a little less “colourful”? Are you doing strategy for ACT as well as coaching the French football team?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:35 am
The left can suck balls.Who cares a fuck what those slimly liars think? David Garrett is more in tune with real NZ than any toss pot,tit sucking piss wank Labour pollie you can name.
Please front with a lefty pollie that has more moral standing than Garrett…no…?!…didn’t think so.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:47 am
I say….Practice what you preach…ZERO tolerance! Out!
But thanks Garrett, you’ve made me join the bloggers…
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:51 am
James, I’m sure that David Garrett is relieved to know people like you are behind him.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 2:03 am
I see James’ “let those without sin thrown the first stone” attitude lasted all of 5 mins!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:02 am
The identity theft is a bad look, very bad, but somewhere along the line we’ve forgotten a Green MP (recently retired) with a far more impressive list of convictions than Garrett has amassed.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:24 am
@Rex Widerstrom – I would suggest those in glass houses …
You can count your self lucky you do not have a very serious criminal conviction relating to an underage girl.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:42 am
Wouldn’t surprise me if James actually is Garrett. He’s certainly dumb enough.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:08 am
Rex Widerstrom: care to give an example where David Garret went after someone who got a $10 fee as conviction? You’re setting up a straw man. Give a true example, not something from your feverish imagination.
bc: this isn’t a left v right argument.
It shouldn’t be, but it is. When Helen Clark can fake signatures to help charities and no one calls for her resignation, the playing field isn’t level. People on the right always have to resign, on the left they never do.
Who was that Labour MP that rorted the taxpayer for years and still is an MP? Did anyone on the left ever call for his resignation?
The indignation of the left is always one sided, and therefore hypocritical. That’s unfortunately the world we live in. The same people would be extremely upset if you’d suggest that a discharge without conviction would have an impact on one’s career.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:20 am
@ berend – to be fair, heaps of people called for Helen Clark’s resignation. It’s just that she wasn’t listening …
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:24 am
So he made a mistake when he was a young wild lad, albeilt a silly one. We all have a few skeletons in the closet, most of whch we regret and would prefer them to stay there.
I actually admire the guy for having a good hard look at himself and deciding 25 years ago to turn his life around. Now he is one of the most effective MP’s in the House and has surprised many with the results he has delivered. The tireless work he has done to make 3 strikes law will make NZ safer and ultimately save lives, so how about a bit more gratitude.
I think those throwing stones should look a little closer at themselves.
This is a Left wing beat up by our left leaning media, and quite frankly most of these people are hypocrites.
If I were ACT I would threaten to publish a list of all MP’s offences unless this nonsense stops immediately.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:33 am
Good idea Gwilly, why don’t they pass retrospective 3 strikes legislation for all MPs. And retrospective non-namby pambying of sentences like discharges for serious identity frauds. That should stop the nonsense.
berend, fundraising for charity is on a par with illegal passports?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:36 am
Oh look more skeletons dragged outta the old closest. I wish the truth would come out about the Peter Davis incident. Oh that’s right it didn’t happen just like Lockwood on film etc….
Dirty mongrels infest the Beehive.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:39 am
DFJ, this time I agree with u.
Unfortunately cleaning out the public trough as did the likes of Carter doesn’t actually meet a criminal test. Shame really. Rather more a moral problem.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:43 am
Look the sordid secrets of our deceitful pollies must be exposed so we can fumigate the stench of corruption saturated in that disgusting Beehive. I believe the low down moral calibre of pollies is beyond belief. I detest liars Miss Klark!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:58 am
There’s been a few idiots saying this is “hypocritical” in light of the “three strikes” law, but where is the connection ? Do either of these count as a ‘strike’ ? Of course not. Passport fraud is not one of the 40 violent or sexual offenses that count as a strike, and was discharged without conviction, therefore two reasons why it’s nothing to do with the strikes law. The ‘assault’ one was in a mickey mouse court in Tonga which makes it irrelevant in NZ, but also ordinary assault is not a strike offense, it would have to be at least GBH or Aggravated Wounding to count for that , two reasons why it’s nothing to do with the strikes law. Not even an incompetent Tongan court is going to give GBH for attempting to punch someone back who’s just broken your jaw. This is exactly the kind of low-end offending that three strikes is designed to ignore. Some dishonest commenters are inventing a straw man Garrett who wants everyone given 25 years for everything. Typical lefties and PC crim-cuddlers, don’t let the facts get in the way…
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Good lord. I find myself agreeing with Toad!
(I should also clarify, that if that were to actually happen, then ACT could in fact secure my vote)
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:20 am
I think those defending Garrett are missing the point.
There are some fine arguments and technical things that would say it really isn’t a big deal, at face value neither things are, now.
The real issue is that this is politics, and Act has handed it’s opponents yet another stick to beat it with, and beat they will. The media love this stuff, it’s easy copy, nice headlines, and everyone likes seeing hypocrite politicians getting a good public flogging… This is simply a tidier version of putting someone in stocks and chucking rotten fruit at them.
The death of all politicians and parties comes when the public floggings merge into a continuous orgy of cringe inducing events, the politicians and party lose all credibility, the voters grow tired of the antics, and everything implodes.
There’s no good telling us to harden up, or comparing this to Helen forging a signature, because this doesn’t change what is happening. Just as Tony Blair’s smarmy slickness wore thin with voters in the UK, or Helen’s complete out-of-touchness and mounting hypocrisy led to her downfall, so too, are the growing list of stunningly bad calls by Act’s leadership reaching a tipping point.
Mainstream voters just think it’s all a poor joke based on the vacuous 10 second sound bites on TV, and Acts voters are feeling that they have been treated like idiots by Hide because he thought he could somehow bury this and no-one would find out.
Hide should have handed Garrett and sword and told him to fall on it, but he can’t because he himself is so hopelessly compromised after taking his girlfriend on a trip compliments of the taxpayer.
Hell hath no fury like a women scorned. I suspect someones ex secretary has been busy.
I guess the main question is, what else is there? Because I personally cannot trust their word now, if they thought they could dodge this, then one should assume there is other stuff.
Act could still sort this out, but it would take some resignations that I don’t see happening now.
Perhaps it was siege mentality that led to this incident, who knows. It doesn’t matter anymore, because if the tipping point hasn’t already been reached in the minds of the voters, it must only be another incident away.
So, it isn’t the specific incident that is the problem, it’s the frequency and manner of them that’s the issue.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:27 am
Well pending the arrival of an alternative right-leaning party to vote for, they’ve still got mine. Tea Party NZ anyone?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:32 am
This is looking more and more like a left, right combination on Hide, the second whammy while he is out of the country and his chief press secretary walks out on him. Actoids have made it clear Hide ok’d Garrett’s misdemeanors without letting the wider party know. Law and order is just a sideshow.
If Hide remains as leader of Act they will limp on as a crippled party, and he will probably keep getting Act shots at both his feet.
If he is rolled Act may fall over completely, or by a bigger miracle than a casualty free earthquake they could rebuild with a new image absent of factional infighting.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Yes please.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:56 am
so its all over the front page in both major papers i saw this morning: ACT party of convictions, says one of them with a huge picture of garret and the words “day of the jackass” under it.
I’ve never seen a front page headline saying the same about the greens and they have way more convictions. their newest mp has being arrested as one of his career headlines. where was the media outcry about that?
This is a beat up pure and simple. people do stupid things, and if they don’t keep doing it and they turn their life around, why should we throw away the key?
i did some pretty stupid crap in my childhood, but would it be fair to judge me now based on what i did 15 years ago at 18? accoriding to those attacking garrett, the answer is yes.
And this is one of the areas i tend to disagree with garretts law and order push, i do think people can reform and change, but if we get too hard on all crime (excluding murder, rape etc) then people like me and garrett get no chance to reform.
Politically he is dead meatand i doubt he will in the next parliament, becuase the media and left hate him, not becuase of what he actually did. becuase if his crimes were enough to get him ineligible for parliament then none of the greens and a lot less of the labour party would be eligible as well.
Oh and BTW sonic is lying again. David benson pope was undone by the fact that he claimed to be a great teacher and lied about complaints about him. Garrett fronted up, very different, but facts are not sonics strong point.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:01 am
Grendel, this is only slightly about Act, party of convictions.
It is far more about Act, party of internal ructions.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:04 am
politically sure Pete, the ructions are not good. but thats not what the media are doing.
Why are they so proud of the greens convictions (sue Bradford used to use them as a badge of honour) but any criminality by act is worthy of hanging.
my issue with it is the unbalanced handling of it. do i think garret is gone? yes, should he be? not for this, unless you agree to clear all MPS with a conviction out.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Garrett was always a loose cannon..it was only ever a matter of time before things went really wrong for him but stealing the identity of a dead child; this is very serious. The spotlight should be on hypo Hide for helping him conceal this fact…Just recently when asked about the assault charge , Garrett said there was nothing else. What a liar.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Grendel, the media don’t like juicy little stories being kept from them, that is a hanging offence more than any other. Maybe the voters should also know relevant details of MPs.
An interesting point about the Garrett name suppression and victims rights – how would the family of the identity baby feel each time Garrett spoke about name suppression and toughening up on crime with harder sentences?
Joana – agreed, this week’s carefully orchestrated double barreled attack is partly aimed at Garrett, but Hide is complicit, and has been secretive, that has obviously annoyed some Actoids. He is the main target.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:16 am
No, he was asked if he had any other convictions, this was discharged without conviction. That’s why Espiner had to ask if he’d pleaded guilty to anything else.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:19 am
@Grendel 8:56 am
Ther difference is that Sue Bradford’s and Gareth Hughes’ brushes with the law were politically motivated and they have always been up front about them. David Garrett, by contrast, did everything he could to conceal his and had to be outed for them. His assault conviction is the result of him getting involved in a brawl. Who knows what motivated the passport fraud – Garrett’s explanation that he did it just to see if it could be done doesn’t stack up. Why would anyone go to all the trouble of getting a false passport if he never had any intent to use it?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Just out of interest, since every one keeps passing this off as “identity fraud”, surely he would’ve had to have passed himself off as the person to be guilty of this? His crime was obtaining a passport by false pretences, I haven’t seen anywhere he was charged with identity fraud.
I have to say, after watching TV3 news last night, my opinion changed. Using “making a lewd statement” as strike 1, a “conviction” by a seemingly corrupt Pacific nation which is still under appeal and a non-conviction as 3 strikes then predicting imminent demises of the entire party? Well I just switched off, I’ve pretty much lost all respect for TV3 as a news source.
@Toad – He legally had to conceal the second one, it was covered by a suppression order.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:23 am
I think David Garrett should do the honorable thing and shave off that moustache.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:24 am
ACT tries to claim the moral high ground but they are built on clay.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Make no mistake, from a centre-right perspective ACT must survive in order for Nats to remain in govt. The alternative makes me nauseous just thinking about it.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:32 am
He could have requested to have it removed. Or not requested to have one in the first place.
Actually it begs the question, was the suppression order granted at Garretts request?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Gwilly, I want to see a strong Act in Parliament, it’s just looking far from likely at this stage. They can’t just keep stumbling on as they kick each other in the shins.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:42 am
labrator – you should’ve heard anti-National Radio before, they’re so desperate to get some tears out of this that they dragged out the father of a dead baby that actually had been used for identity theft by someone who faked their own death and started a new life under the dead baby’s name. Obviously couldn’t find anyone upset enough over the actual case under discussion, so they found someone who’s upset by a different and infinitely worse case. Then they brought out some breathless crim-cuddling lawyer who complained that this was “hypocrisy” becasue Garrett is against the “clean slate bill” despite benefitting from it himself, which is ludicrous because the clean slate bill only deals with convictions, and there was no conviction on the passport fraud, and the $10 rumble in Tonga was outside new zealand anyway. Also the clean slate bill applies to convictions older than seven years, so even if he had been convicted of passport fraud in 2005, he has not benefitted one iota from the clean slate bill. Never let the facts get in the way…
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:43 am
It continues to amaze me, that this is brought up again and again. And here I was, thinking always that ACT were claiming the moral high ground. Now it’s just relative to Sue Bradford.
The issue is not the convictions themselves.
It’s being the toughest law and order spokesman and keeping those convictions from the public. It’s about fighting against name suppression but using it when convenient.
Obtaining a false passport, it’s silly, but you have to admire it somewhat. I do remember way back when seeing Day of the Jackal (The version with Edward Fox) wondering if it could be really that easy. Well, thanks to David Garrett for answering that question for me.
Anyway, he had 20 odd years to do the right thing. Contact the authorities, admit his youthful bravado and hand back the passport. He chose not to do so.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Most people have done stupid things when young and most have grown up and learnt valuable lessons. 25 years is a lifetime ago. We gain character and wisdom from life’s experiences. Imagine if the beehive was full of moralistic boring people who had never put a foot wrong. To coin a phrase… “Let him without sin cast the first stone”.
Vote:(I am neither an ACT supporter or religious)
September 16th, 2010 at 9:45 am
I uttered a loud guffaw when I saw that David Garrett is a lawyer. Of all people he would have known how illegal his actions were and what the consequences could be for his career… Lucky for him he wasn’t caught sooner. But, regardless of your political views and personal reaction to this particular crime, this was an extraordinarily STUPID thing to do. Added to his other foolhardy antics we need to question his judgement and therefore suitability for his role. Come on, surely there are some intelligent, ethically unsullied, visionary thinkers, with good interpersonal skills somewhere out there among the right thinkers? If so, ACT needs you!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:05 am
I hope David hangs in there and keeps working on the voluntary sterilisation idea. That and the three strikes would make him one of the most useful pollies NZ has ever had.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:29 am
@Gwilly
So like if ACT implodes and ceases to be then ex-ACT voters will switch to the left????
That would be a serious case of cutting off the old nose to spite the face.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Oh c’mon. It’s not like he murdered the baby so he could take it’s identitiy. And it was 25 years ago FFS. Get over it you lefty foamers. Is the earthquake news that easily for gotten?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 11:12 am
It seems like the Hide/Roy earthquake hasn’t been easily forgotten in Act ranks.
And looks like ongoing dysfunction is not easily forgotten:
Dump him from the party – 773 votes, 26.0%
Vote:Dump him from his law and order portfolio – 376 votes, 12.6%
Dump him, and roll Rodney Hide as leader – 1392 votes, 46.8%
Nothing – 434 votes, 14.6%
(Stuff online poll)
September 16th, 2010 at 11:23 am
That’s 3 ACT MPs in the news for the wrong reasons in less than 12 months. Who is next??? Maybe some dirt on John Boscawen from 25 years ago – ooh scandalous!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Toad,
At the time of Garrett’s case there were also a number of other cases that went to court. The one I can find is a certain Frank MacSkasy, who I think was a parliamentary aide to Jim Anderton’s party, and he also said he did it to see if it was really that simple to do as the book described.
As to your question about did he use the passport, I am sure that Immigration or Internal Affairs would know the answer to that. If he had then I doubt he would have got away with discharge without conviction. Maybe he used the passport as a form of identity to get a dodgy loan from SCF?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Anyone using a dead person’s identity to obtain a passport has a high likelihood of being caught. Systems including death-record checks, a shorter term of passport validity and the introduction of e-passports have made the crime easier to detect.
People who have been caught in New Zealand include:
2006: Frank Macskasy, 48, of Upper Hutt, is fined $2000 for forgery after using the name and details of a dead baby to get a passport. He said he had wanted to try The Day of the Jackal scam.
2006: Porirua man Dacey Jon Cameron is jailed for two years after attempting to obtain a passport in the name of a dead baby. Cameron changed his name by deed poll in 2004 to that of an infant who died almost four decades before and applied for a passport soon after.
2006: Peter Fulcher, a former kingpin in the Mr Asia drug syndicate, escapes a jail term despite admitting stealing the identity of a five-year-old who died in 1945, to obtain a passport.
2006: Rotorua man Christopher Mark Grose, 36, is fined $10,000 after stealing the identity of a dead baby to obtain a passport.
2005: William Kevin Roach, 49, a United States citizen, is jailed after admitting forgery charges. Also inspired by The Day of the Jackal, he assumed the identity of a baby after visiting a Tauranga cemetery.
2000: Jo-Anne Mary Cole, 43, is sentenced to 4 1/2 years’ jail after being convicted of fraud and passport offences. Cole also used the Forsyth techniques.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4133210/Identity-theft-no-harmless-prank
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
A question worth asking is why the left wing media are going after ACT.
They (the media) will say that they are doing their job by exposing this kind of thing, of course that is true to some extent but the hypocritical part of all this is that they continue to turn a blind eye to the criminal records of left wing politicians.
I suspect that the real reason they are going after ACT has nothing to do with ACT as a party, it has everything to do with trying to take down the National government, the scum who masquerade as our political journalists know that Key and he Nat’s are near bullet proof at the moment so they are attempting to take them down by having a crack at their support parties.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Perhaps National have decided they just don’t need ACT any more. We’ll see if they contest Epsom I suppose.
Vote:I think it’s likely somebody has been sitting on info about Garrett for some time.
September 16th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
fot, your naivity is astounding.
Vote:ever considered that this whole thing may be coming internally from ACT? Incredibly bad timing for Hide.
Blaming the media is such a lame and boring excuse, can’t you come up with something better
September 16th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Of course the tip off came from inside the ACT party, and you choose to overlook that the left wing low life media have been after ACT for some time now, this just gives them another excuse to go after the party.
Ask yourself this, do the media go after the left with the same passion?
Try looking at things with both eyes open for a change eszett.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
They’d never chase a leftie homosexual MP around parts of Parliament they’re not supposed to go in pursuit of a story, would they. I think they said something like “the story was to important to follow the rules”.
They’d never highlight a leftie leader’s continued poor poll results and gleefully say “if an election was held today he’s toast”.
Try the both eyes trick yourself.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Exactly, eszett. Heather Roy might look cute, but she has very sharp claws and I suspect from the manner she was dealt to by Hide, Garrett and Boscawen, she is not shy about using them at the moment.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
-Francis Urquhart
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
I tend to be in the camp which suspects this leak came from within ACT, as much as I don’t want to believe so. It’s also hard not to feel the party is imploding, which would be a shame given the huge comtribution ACT has made to this govt in such a short time.
In their favour is time. People have terribly short memories (in this day and age in particular) and Epsom voters IQ I would suggest is higher than the NZ average (in fact considerably higher), and they realise the Nats are buggered without ACT, so will vote strategically (some just to spite lefties like John Armstrong).
Secondly, they must quickly to pull together and focus solely on promoting new ideas and policy. Then come election time focus on their achievements as a minority partner – reminding the right-wing that it was ACT who forced the govt to open ACC to more competition and 90 days probabtion to ALL businesses (Nats didn’t want to do either). They can also remind right-leaning voters they were the only party opposed to ETS and Foreshore & Seabed legislation. Then throw in a few radical right-wing policies on topics such as immigration and they will walk Epsom. Come to think of it – when is NZ going to follow the frogs and ban the burka?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
fot, there is no need for the media to “go after” the ACT party. They are pretty good at going after themselves. That is just the lamest excuse when you have run out of all other excuses.
Talk about bias if you must, but to say that “the media is going after ACT” is simple paranoia.
What are they supposed to do? Not report this? Not comment on it?
ACT has turned into a party of hypocrites. First Douglas, then Hide, now a double whammy for Garrett. Add the Heather Roy fiasco into the mix.
One thing for sure it is highly entertaining. The Day of the Jackal angle alone is brilliant. No left wing controlled media would have dreamt that one up.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Probably not long after we ban short skirts, speaking Mandarin, and homosexuality Gwilly.
Otherwise good post.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Definitely a lot higher than in the ACT party itself, which doesn’t not seem hard these days.
Nats are buggered without ACT? What parallel universe do you inhabit? If the Nats call a snap election because ACT implodes, then they are likely to get a majority all by themselves and ACT disappears from the radar.
I would say ACT is at the mercy of National at the moment.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Gwilly, they won’t get the chance. At every turn, they will be reminded of and challenged over their hypocrisy and deception, just as Peters was last time. They have dug their own grave. It’s all over for these folks. Maybe Roger should get out now, while he still has his considerable reputation largely intact. It would be a shame for him to hang around and go down with the ship.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Eszett – it is a well known fact that The Herald supports Labour / Greens, it always has. It’s also a well known fact that their chief political reporter John Armstrong is a commie who hates everything ACT stands for and has a personal vendetter against Hide. This is not paranoia, but plain and simple facts.
Fortunately most thinking NZers are aware of this, and anyone with slightly centre-right views ignores most of what they say. Certainly anyone that votes for ACT knows this, and doesn’t really take The Herald seriously.
If I was Hide I’d go as far as banning all interviews with them, much like Alex Fergusson has done with BBC or dig up all the dirt on Armstrong… and you can gaurantee there would be a fair bit. Notice the Greens and Maori have been very quiet. They wouldn’t want the glass house to come tumbling down on them.
Time for ACT to go on the attack!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Snap elections are generally a bad idea and Key isn’t that stupid. It is possible National gain votes to a degree they can govern without ACT, but under MMP it is extremely risky, not to mention unlikely. Polls always narrow closer to election time…remember NZ is predominantly a left-wing leaning country and Labour can always count on luny parties such as Greens for support and they usually get 7-10% of the party vote. Nope – National could do with 5 ACT seats in the bag. ACT has always been the insurance policy National need come election time, and to ram through unpopular but necessary legislation, e.g. 90 days probation bill. Key will not be happy about this at all.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
The paranoid never think that they are in fact paranoid and they pose the paranoia always as undeniable plain and simple facts.
Elections are always a risky business, but In the current situation I’d say National was never as well posed to actually gain a majority of seats even under MMP. With ACT polling at 1.3% there wont be 5 seats, maybe 2, more likely none.
As you said Epsom voters are intelligent, voting again for a loony party that ACT has proven to be I’d say Hide will have a difficult time regaining that seat.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
Chuck Bird says:
I can’t Chuck, you lying little toerag. Because the complainant in my case admitted she lied. She did so once in a sworn statement, and then again in public to the Wanganui Chronicle when your idol Lhaws tried the same smear.
In case you’re scratching your head wondering what the point is, numbnuts, I’ll tell you: That makes me completely innocent. Garrett, on the other hand, is guilty. x 2.
But as I’ve said, that’s not the point (especially the bogus assault conviction). The point is that he wouldn’t give anyone else the understanding he’s asking for now. He’d be calling them a “violent fraudster” or some such, and claiming their sentences were inadequate.
I, OTOH, accept that people are fallible and make mistakes and get into situations outside of their control and we ought to offer them some compassion. Yes, even David Garrett. Who doesn’t think that.
So the issue isn’t his criminality, it’s his rank hypocrisy. As those with more than one eye open have been explaining to the likes of you for two days now.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Vote for ACT. The ideas transcend the current management and you’ll never attract a better class of MP if the party is languishing south of 5%. They’re operating in the margins and attract marginal MPs as a consequence. Even RD seems to have given up on achieving anything meaningful for NZ; killing compulsory student unions – FFS.
Everyone who voted National and are disappointed they’re Labour-lite and have done bugger all to roll back soft socialism, should (IMHO) vote ACT. Get them well above 5% and see what happens. If they’re rubbish then, ok so they’re rubbish. But give the dog a chance.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Malcolm, voting for Act and having faith in them conjuring up a radically better class of MP as a result is more wishful thinking than believing government won’t mis-use the Canterbury Earthquake Act.
Why not get a heap of people to vote for NZ First and attract a class of MP who will keep in touch with and follow the wishes of their constituents, the first wish being that they retire Winston?
I know there’s some chicken/and egg with Act, but what the current lot have to do is prove they can work together and prioritise and act as they say. Then they may attract some more votes, then they may attract some better people (ones that can leave their hatchets in their woodsheds).
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Hmmm, let me see, National is currently polling above of what they received at election, ACT is on 1.3%.
Vote:That would seem to me that people are quite happy with the National and the disappointment is more on the ACT voters side.
September 16th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Polls are very misleading at the best of times. A good example is ACT which always polls around 1-1.5% but come election time manages 3-4%. I’ve lost count how many times the media has predicted their demise. Remember a large proportion of expats vote for ACT.
I agree with Malcolm, there is a significant National voting block that are disappointed at their lack of boldness and failure to reverse the socialist policies enacted by Labour, not to mention the cuddling up to Maori. National voters need to understand that a vote for National is a vote for a conservative govt who are very good at administering policy, but they have never been an ideas party.
One of the reasons ACT has been so appealing is their bold vision for NZ and their approach to adopt ‘best in the class’ polcies that have been proven to work overseas.
As for the other parties, the Greens want to take us back to the Stone Age era. I’ve never met a Greens voter (except my sister who ticked the box by mistake!), so who the feck are these 1 in 10 voters? Labour doesn’t have a single policy to increase the size of the pot and our standard of living, and NZ First just wants to appease Grey Power and flip flops based on the polls. Peter Dunne is just there for the limo, and Jim Anderton is a commie.
Geez, isn’t this depressing!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Rex Widerstrom, you say I am lying. You tell the story. Were you commincating on the net with underage girl?
If so, how old was she?
How old did she tell you she was?
You want put the boot into Garrett make sure you are sqeaky clean.
Give us the facts about the girl.
Vote:and let others decide if I am lying.
September 16th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Chuck, you’re sounding very squeaky, but not so clean.
What are your thoughts on Garrett? (that’s what this topic is about) Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the passport do you think he will be a benefit or a burden to Act from now on?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Gwilly, on the one hand you are saying there is massive disappointment with National, but on the other hand you say that it is business as usual in the polls and the low polling for ACT is “normal”.
Don’t trust the numbers, don’t be bothered with facts, just stick to the narrative.
I think that the “significant” disappointment is just wishful thinking by some of the far right. Certainly if it were that significant, it would show in the polls.
National has significantly approval ratings. ACT is in free fall. Labour can barely keep above 30%.
Surely if your assumption were correct there would be some uplift in ACTs polls. Or at least a significant drop in Nationals.
The numbers and trends just don’t fit your story.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
I’m not sure how ad hominems will help your hero Chuck. Perhaps you could give us an insight? Diversion? The old “A did something wrong so he has no right to criticise B” theorem so favoured by those defending the indefensible? As Pete George says, this is about Garrett, not about me.
Care to reveal your identity and swear to having no convictions Chuck? I’ve done both. After all, if my brushes with the law affect my right to an opinion then so do yours.
I’ve explained it all (including answers to your questions), on another thread a long time ago when another hero of yours, Ron Mark, tried to smear me and then cowered behind the skirts of Parliamentary privilege. I’m not about to trot out the whole saga every time I make a comment on a justice-related issue. If you’re that excited by underage sex scandals, go Google it.
Anyway… I’ll say it AGAIN… it’s not about Garrett’s convictions (or convictions without discharge). At least not for me.
It’s about his lying by omission.
It’s about his judgment.
It’s about his hypocrisy.
It’s about whether these things make him suitable as an MP.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
That old chestnut. ACT is nothing of the sort. Many of the policies described on their 20 Point Plan have been implement in countries that we regard to our left. The issue of not that them being ‘far right’, more that NZ has been marching to the left for a few decades. This hasn’t worked out too well for Greece, Spain, Portugal or Italy… big fat governments getting bigger and fatter while the productive economies get taxed out of existence. NZ desperately needs to move to the right economically because the current path has us destined to become a sleepy pacific backwater – a tiny island paradise for an elite few and an impoverished prison for the rest.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Chuck
FWIW – the Rex Widerstrom saga here…
http://www.mayormichael.co.nz/pressitems_council/060116-blog.html
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Pete, I do not claim to be squeaky clean. What Garrett did was a serious criminal offence but 26 years ago. Compare this to Clark. She comitted forgery. An equelly serious crime. The police found that there was a prima facie case to answer but Clark did not have to stand trial. All Labout Party supported Clark even though she commtie dher crime while an MP. Maybe Annette King could say why she thinks Garrett should resign but not only support Clark but numerous other Labour MPs.
As I said I do not clam to be squeaky clean. However, I am an ACT member and if people want put boot in to an ACT MP they can expect a response.
I think what he did was quite wrong but the way some people are talking you would think he was a pervert like Benson Pope. Did Benson Pope resign?
I do not support everything Garrett has said any more than I support all that Rodney has said.
I think Garrett still has the potential to makle a very effective MP. Maybe too effective when it comes to the foreshore and Seabed legislation.
The likely came from an ACT or ex Act member but who knows.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
LOL Angus, linking to Lhaws for an “unblemished” accoutn of what happened to me is like linking to The Standard for a fair and balanced assessent of Don Brash
Instead try DPF’s own take in which he called allegations similar to those being made by Chuck “a new low”.
Or if you’d prefer something more official, DPF was also kind enough to public the text of the formal response made in Parliament which had to pass the scrutiny of the Speaker’s Office as to factual accuracy.
edit: Chuck, you might care to note that I’m not attacking Garrett “because he is an Act MP” but because of what he has done. I have nothing but admiration for John Boscawen; I’m a little disappointed in Rodney but still think he has a valuable contribution to make; I’ve known other Act MPs (Shirley, Jennings, Prebble) and admired them too. Garrett lets them all down, same as Awatere did.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
@eszett
Or people who voted Labour have decided that they like John Key as PM and he’s no threat to the soft-socialism status quo. You can slice and dice polls anyway you like and the bare numbers can hide movements in and out. I personally know many people who voted National and are disappointed with how little they’ve done to undo socialism in NZ. JK called Working For Families ‘socialism by stealth’. But has no plans to scrap it.
@Pete
Not at all. ACT occupy (in theory, stay with me on this…) a fairly clearly defined segment of the political spectrum. The tent is pitched, we just need some better campers who know how to keep the fire going (to coin a lame and painful analogy)
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Chuck, what about his ultimate effectiveness, on the party vote?
Malcolm, I get what you mean, Unfortunately the current furore won’t exactly encourage heaps of contenders to step up to the scrutiny.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
malcolm:
Since you started the tortured analogies
Why get out and push a vehicle with four flat tyres and steam pouring from the engine, and which is facing partly in the wrong direction, when the people who know what direction it should be heading can get in a shiny new vehicle that’s never faced a recall?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Yeah but Rex, even if the old Morrie has a blown head gasket, a stripped tooth in 2nd gear, bald tyres and your licence is suspended, she’s can still take you to the dairy at a push to buy a carton of milk when you’ve got dinner half-made, the spuds cooked and you’re all set to start mashing. You know what I mean? Butter alone is no good. You need milk as well. Having a brochure on the table for the new 2012 Ford Falcon isn’t going to get you the milk. And besides you can always find BMC parts. They’re everywhere, like potential list MPs. So in summary, when the spuds are ready for mashing you need milk. And ACT can deliver milk. It just needs a new driver, a head-job and a replacement gearbox.
.. but that new Falcon sure looks nice. 0 ks, a warranty and that new car smell…
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
A common narrative, but it nowhere adds up. Where are all those disgruntled National voters? If Labour voters are voting for National and Labour, well with National at 50% and Labour at 30% that makes 80%.
Even if a lot of Labour voters would now vote for National and are propping up the National vote, where did all the National voters go? It just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Truth is there is only a tiny minority of fringe hard right, who mostly voted ACT anyway, who are disappointed for not getting their way and just cannot understand why the remaining 98.7% don’t see it their way.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Everyone loves a good redemption story. Darkest before the dawn and all that.
Old pirates, yes, they rob I;
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took I
From the bottomless pit.
But my hand was made strong
By the ‘and of the Almighty.
We forward in this generation
Triumphantly.
Won’t you help to sing
This songs of freedom
‘Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs.
….
I’ll get my coat.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Eszett – significant disappointment does not equate to National voters switch sides to Labour. For example, many farmers who are unhappy about ETS vote National as a matter of principle whatever the circumstances. They will still vote National, and some will give their party vote to ACT.
You can’t say ACT are in freefall…but certainly the media want to portray that, but actually they are polling consistently at historical levels of abour 1-1.5%. Come 2011 there will be the usual demise of ACT stories being peddled out by Armstrong & co.
As a general rule Labour & National have a hardcore support of 30% each. Another 5-7% are Greens. You have approx 30% floating voters. Many of those at present would probably vote National, but with the way MMP works Labour/Greens/Maori/NZ First(?)Dunne/Anderton combined will make up close to 50%, so which ever way you look at it National are on shakey ground. Those 5 ACT seats may not seem like much, but they are critical, and in my opinion Epsom voters understand this. ACT will visit every household in the electorate just to ram home this message. Not a single person in Epsom is stupid enough to want a mickey mouse coaltion of losers and misfits from the Left.
And quite frankly God help us if we return to a coalition of that nature. Then we are bordering on a banana republic.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Eszett, you could be right. My personal take from talking with real people (as opposed to online) is that there are a lot of National voters who are not happy. Is that reflected in the polls? Hard to say. I put little stock in polls outside of an election.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
“Chuck, what about his ultimate effectiveness, on the party vote?”
Pete, that is hard to say. It depends on what he learns from this.
I hope he may consider looking at the Scott Watson case.
He is doing a very important job on the Foreshore & Seabed legislation.
I bet if ACT ceases to exist some of those crying for blood will be crying about paying to go on the beach,
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
The Minor/Act analogy is perfect malcolm. Held off the ground by four short twisted little shafts, and led along by a weighty yet underpowered cast iron lump with a shiny flat head.
Sadly, they removed their attractive hood ornament last month…
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
I thought those on the Right ate babies instead of just stealing their identities.
What a bore this story is; Heather Roy should have her life support turned off more than Garrett should.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Considering that there was the same foaming at the mouth from most of you fools when you heard Garrett was convicted for being at the wrong end of a punch from an angry Tongan, I don’t really have anything to say to any of you.
Too bad you all pretty much swallowed yet another cum shot from Simon Ewing-Jarvie and his ball sack of ACT secrets and lies. Fark you guys are so easily wound up. I am so bored of the “attack ACT” silliness that’s too many of you slip into when it suits you.
This hasn’t changed my feelings about ACT whatsoever. Anybody who reads Garretts newsletters know that this guy has head head screwed on very tightly. We have all been dumbasses in our younger years.
Does anybody still have that list that was on Kiwiblog (?) ages ago with MPs and ex MPs convictions?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
I think you miss the point Heine. Your mates have been caught out and proven to be a bunch of hypocrites.
Vote:They dont like name suppression. Unless its for one of their own.
They dont like the Clean Slate bill. But will use it now to defend their own
Rodney the “perkbuster”
And all they have done in the David “the Jackal” Garrett episode is provide a pretty good argument for why the three strikes policy maybe flawed. “I was young and dumb”, “It was just a prank” etc etc.
September 16th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Y’know Mikey you need to come to grips with the harsh reality that we are right wingers. We don’t care what the opinion of an extreme leftist like you might be on this issue or any issue. Your (plural) world view is perverted, your ability to think logically is non existent, and you have nothing to say on any issue that carries any weight with us. When you post a load of opinionated codswallop such as the rubbish you have just posted, you’re totally spinning your wheels. Wake up to yourself and save some bandwidth.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
Just a thought, can we get hold of 26 year old bank records and see if Garret’s bank balance took a left turn into credit at that time?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
@Clint Heine 9:00 pm
Clint, you are a fool. ACT used to be a party of principles, albeit principles I disagrered with.
What needs to happen now is for ACT to dump Garret and Hide, and make Sir Roger Douglas or Heather Roy the Leader. I disagree vehemently with Douglas’ and Roy’s politics, but if ACT wants to return to its former “Values, not Politics” mantra, the opportunist and untrustworthy characters like Garrett and Hide have to be given the boot.
At least we wold then know what ACT represents. At the moment they just appear to represent duplicity, evasion of criminal responsibility, and troughing.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Im not a leftist MrBaiter(or is it Master) and as for codswallop I think we all here on Kiwiblog know who is wasting bandwith.
Vote:I can just see you sitting there with your tinfoil helmet on screaming at your monitor.
It isnt about left or right or whether or not Obama was born in outer Mongolia its about hypocrisy, plain and simple. Blinkered dickheads like yourself struggle to comprehend that and to be honest from the blathering madness you post here its no surprise
September 16th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
We can argue here like this until we are blue in the face but the reality is that in all Kiwiblog-dom there are about a hundred slathering right wingers like baiter, and about twenty leftie trolls like smokes and myself. Even if you broke the margin of error down and analysed the bejesus out of it, our worldly opinions just don’t matter.
What matters is this – my boss and my mates at work who aren’t interested at all in politics. Real sane people. What few comments there were around the smoko table this afternoon, basically agreed with exactly what Toad said:
Scream and curse and Redbait all you want, that is the reality.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
RRM Im not a leftist mate. I just hate hypocrites
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
“I just hate hypocrites”
The standard leftist behaviour pattern- posture as holier than thou arbitrators of all that is good and right, and point and scream at anyone they consider less clean than themselves, when their whole belief system is one of complete and utter hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy- the worst and most frequent crime in the leftist lexicon and most often an allegation falsely made, and made by people who are more often hypocrites themselves by means of their own dysfunctional belief system.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Toad what on earth makes you thnk we’re at all interested at all in what an extreme leftist like you thinks ACT should do? For God’s sake..!!!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
Wrong again MasterBaiter. Fuck your a dumb cunt. I would still be an ACT voter if they hadnt proven to be such hypocrites.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
“if they hadnt proven to be such hypocrites.”
I might ask you to explain why they might be “hypocrites” Mikey but I know it would be utterly futile.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
That sounds very much like you, red. Another apt self-description.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Garrett is a criminal, Hide is a trougher and Redbaiter is a moron
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
“my boss and my mates at work who aren’t interested at all in politics”
but might one day wake up to the fact that the media they get their “information” from is largely a gang of left wing propagandists posing as journalists, and duping them entirely as to the political reality.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
“Garrett is a criminal, Hide is a trougher”
As I said- futile.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Poor Ratbiter, not interested in what the lefties say, but spends his whole life arguing with them.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
They dont like name suppression. Unless its for one of their own.
They dont like the Clean Slate bill. But will use it now to defend their own
Rodney the “perkbuster”
And all they have done in the David “the Jackal” Garrett episode is provide a pretty good argument for why the three strikes policy maybe flawed. “I was young and dumb”, “It was just a prank” etc etc.
Give me something MasterBaiter just something that refutes what I posted earlier
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
“Poor Ratbiter, not interested in what the lefties say, but spends his whole life arguing with them.”
Of course, that’s why I’m so loved and admired by the left.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
“Give me something MasterBaiter just something that refutes what I posted earlier”
Sorry Mikey, I don’t have time to shoot the breeze to every mainstream media influenced incoherent and brainless moron with a computer. Your claim that Garret is a hypocrite is so weak and factless and illogical its not worth a cup of cat’s piss. To claim that because he was discharged without conviction for a minor offence some 26 years ago, this makes him a hypocrite for fighting serious and violent crime today is a path of logic only a complete and utter lunatic could subscribe to.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
Your an idiot misterbaiter if Garrett had his way people like himself would be in the big house.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
“if Garrett had his way people like himself would be in the big house.”
A totally false claim. Three strikes crimes are categorised, and they sure as hell do not include discharges without conviction. Go away you uninformed waste of time.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Thats odd Ratbiter, a minute ago you were not interested in what the left said, yet your last three posts have been responses to us rabid commies.
Care to explain this contradiction, or better yet take a vow never to waste your time mentioning us again!
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Its here nore there anyway Redwanker, I for one will be drinking to the fall of ACT and their dead baby identity stealing law and order spokesman. You keep defending the indefencible. Im off to smoke a blunt, sip some scotch and hit some pussy.
Vote:You enjoy your tinfoil helmet
September 16th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
“Care to explain this contradiction,”
Telling you that I’m not interested in your viewpoints on current events because of your predilection for seeing every issue through a blinding and innately insane red haze is not any kind of “contradiction”. (leaving aside the fact that many lurkers out there not so afflicted as yourself are making objective judgments on these discussions)
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
Err Mikey, when did ACT say they didn’t want the name suppression laws to benefit them? Garrett was quite open to discuss his ill-deeds from all those years ago. Nor did I see any defence of the clean slate bill.
I guess you didn’t look too much at the 3 strikes bill that ACT championed either. Otherwise you’d know that none of these would fall into the catagory you’re going on about.
Toad – thank goodness no political party would ever take advice from the Greens. They would have to have a deathwish.
Vote:How are the red/green factions working again?
September 16th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
It might be water tight by law Heine, but for me the hypocrisy is too much. My vote will be going somewhere else since ACT is goneburger
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:01 am
I’d be interested to know why he actually did it. To me it just seems odd to go to such perverted lengths to create a fake identity “just to see if you could do it”.
People create fake identities for reasons. I bet trying to claim welfare he wasn’t entitled to, or something like that, wouldn’t be out of line with ACT’s hypocrisy.
I also love that he’s blogged complaining about name suppression while knowing full well that he’s a beneficiary of it.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:10 am
Nicola, he did it to see if he could do it. The courts found that he never used it. I know many people who have entertained the idea but haven’t carried through with it – just because they wondered. Yeah its dumb but no more dumber than some of the crimes people actually commit these days.
Mikey. Love to know where your vote is going to. If you had to vote for a party that wasn’t ever hypocritical I’m afraid you may as well stay home on voting day.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:51 am
Heine I have young kids as I assume you do. If some cunt stole my dead babie’s identity as a “prank” I would use one of my three strikes to cripple the cunt.
Vote:And unlike your cowardly homeys I would waive name suppresion and go to court with my head held high.
You seem hell bent on defending not only an idiot but a coward.
And by the way where is your blog contributor, troll and bet welsher Big Bruv on this??? Dont tell me he and Garrett share the same passport?
Jog on you fucking numpty. What kind of animal steals a dead kiddies identity?
September 17th, 2010 at 2:59 am
Anyone else notice the uncanny resemblence between David “the Jackal” Garrett and Clayton Weatherston???
Vote:Bit of dye, some glasses and a bit of weight loss. Hahahaha bye bye ACT
September 17th, 2010 at 3:18 am
“The courts found that he never used it.”
I don’t see how a court could find that. He claimed he never used it and barring evidence to the contrary the court accepted that. I’m interested to know if he ever travelled on it, I agree with Nicola no one commits such a serious offence just for the sake of it, he had a reason.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 6:02 am
Redbaiter@10.46 “Your claim that Garret is a hypocrite is so weak and factless and illogical its not worth a cup of cat’s piss. To claim that because he was discharged without conviction for a minor offence some 26 years ago, this makes him a hypocrite for fighting serious and violent crime today is a path of logic only a complete and utter lunatic could subscribe to.”
Poor Redbaiter. There must be a lot of “complete and utter lunatics” out there then because most NZers (whatever side of the political divide they are from) are in agreement today that he’s a complete and utter hypocrite and he’s got to go. And take his waste of space party with him. Bye bye ACT…
Vote:September 22nd, 2010 at 4:07 am
I didn’t defend Garretts actions mikey. Take a leaf out of your own book and grow up. I hope your kids don’t hear you use that language. I doubt you ever voted ACT the way you’re going on about it.
ACT will survive, if every party collapsed because of one bad MP we’d have nobody left to vote for.
Vote: