Praise, before I forget
September 15th, 2010 at 8:51 pm by David FarrarMeant to blog this a few days ago, but kudos to Labour for voting for the repeal of the Foreshore & Seabed Act. Never easy to admit you were wrong, and that your successors have handled it better.
But more important than point scoring, is that this should be durable – with both major parties supporting it.
Related posts:
- Harawira on FSA
- Labour flip-flops again
- Armstrong on Foreshore & Seabed
- Labour backs down on Foreshore & Seabed Law
September 15th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
the tears are flowing .. I watched PTV and didn’t see too many examples from the Labour lot admitting they fucked up
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
in fact, I just checked out RednotsoAlert and no mention of this momentous occasion???
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Basically the same law so no reason why labour wouldn’t have voted for it
[DPF: Could Iwi go to court to claim customary title under the old law? Could they in fact gain customary title at all?
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Praise for labour???????????????????????????? Lest we forget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God I shudder when I think back.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
The F&S was still better being in Crown hands , so it could not be “owned” or abused by anyone.
Stupid, stupid doing away with it. Nothing to cheer about.
It was probably the one right thing Helen did.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Appropriate use of speech marks there Fletch. The government is redefining the concept of ownership, and then interpreting it in the most constituency-friendly way to all/any side of the debate. In other words, zero integrity and maximum re-election opportunity.
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
So what now with that protester … woops, Member of Parliament, woops, racist, woops activist, woops, wanker … Haweria? No cause left, what will he do now?
Collect a nice fat Parliamentary dole cheque while all of the cuzzies get the ordinary dole I suppose.
[DPF: 20 demerits for wanker]
Vote:September 15th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
Ahem
Let’s say at the next election Hide loses Epsom, and National can’t govern without the Maori Party. The Maori party demands a new deal on F&S.
Durable, still?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:51 am
We all need to all look at this issue logically and objectively, there have been some serious abuses of the coastline around New Zealand by various Councils and Multinational Companies which have destroyed the local tangata whenua’s marine resources, just have a look at the Waitara River situation in the Taranaki.
All Maori are asking for is a fair suck of the Kumara, this paranoia about Maori closing off the beaches is whiteman hysteria, sure you may have some problems in some areas but there is also alot of beachfront in pakeha hands which the public may have access to.
The problem is European do not understand Maori affinity with their resources and the sustainability of these resources.
Dialogue and an open mind is the best method of understanding the issues. There is still alot of water to go under the bridge.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:26 am
This is a good precedent. Now we need parliament to admit they were wrong with the Canterbury Earthquake Response and Recovery Bill, and re-handle it much better.
I have reasonable faith that the bill as it is won’t be mis-used, but that is not a reason for giving themselves such sweeping powers.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 7:42 am
Durable Still?
As of to-day, on current form and polling feedback, it would be reasonable to assume that National would be easily able to govern alone.
SAD ACT are going to have to re-invent themselves with other leadership in place. Maori are factional and will have gifted more votes to
National than they realise from their expected followers. Just amazing that Luc sees any prospect of Labour getting any bounceback. Helen made sure that the Party was unviable without her.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 8:08 am
Tariana Turia says laws can be remade. Basically the foreshore and seabed is an arm wrestle. On the surface it is about iwi and hapu who have lived continuously and contiguously (?) by the seaside being able to claim customary title (so they can do Maori things which won’t substantially interfere with Pakeha things). The Green Party (and Maori Party) are arguing for customary title based on aboriginal title (as at 1840) becoming common law but also under the treaty of Waitangi were the indigenous version is recognised by international law (tino rangitiratanga , forests and fisheries). The Greens are asking for the bar to be lowered when proving customary title where each increment equals another x km of beach under Maori control. They see Maori as being custodians of the environment were as Pakeha (and their capitalist governments) are exploiters.
In 1840 there were about 2000 Europeans and 60,000 Maori. Europeans reached parity with Maori in 1858. Now the population is 4.4 million and as Chris Trotter puts it
” By convincing the National Party leader that the foreshore and seabed issue is nothing more than a dispute over property law, they have opened the way to a much more radical application of indigenous rights.
For who can dispute that, at one time, the entire geographical entity we call New Zealand was the property of Maori collectivities? ”
Vote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/258693
September 16th, 2010 at 9:34 am
So the Foreshore and Seabed Act is good for Parliamentarians and good for Maori.
TWO OUT OF THREE AIN’T BAD.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
“your successors have handled it better”
No, YOUR successors have handled it better. The reason it’s all going swimmingly is because the opposition is not scaremongering like the previous National opposition did on this issue.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Thats final then… The country is fucked. Will the last person to leave please remember to turn off the lights?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
‘The problem is European do not understand Maori affinity with their resources and the sustainability of these resources”.
like the rape of paua using customary rights for black market gain
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Lets say Rodney actually holds power and is the kingmaker, because of all the running dogs pretending to be representive of New Zealanders
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
DM – 12.30pm – agree
A stable political environment is needed for people to invest in their future.
Vote:Unfortunately, we keep giving people a reason to take their wealth overseas.
September 16th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Swiftman the infidel 9:34 am,
Over recent history I have come to the conclusion that if something is good for BOTH Parliamentarians AND Maori, THEN it is most definitely BAD for the rest of us.
The evidence just keeps stacking up …
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
[DPF: Could Iwi go to court to claim customary title under the old law? Could they in fact gain customary title at all?
The answer to the first question is YES. And it isn't about going to court anymore. It is about the Maori elite going to Chris Finlayson, the lawyer that represented iwi in previous treaty of whaitangi claims, and make BACK ROOM DEALS. He shouldn't even be on the government side, there is a HUGE conflict of interest that will hurt kiwi's for years down the line.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Yes Julian, but its worse than that. The vast bulk of kiwis’ ‘wealth’ is tied up in their property (numerically speaking) and it will become obvious to people that they have no guarantee of tenure on their own property as Maoris claim and get given more and more and more. Once this act is passed, look for ever increasing claims on all classes of land in New Zealand.
Industry in this country has already been destroyed and will continue to be throttled as the ETS bites into our economy; our
financial system is at the mercy of unpricipled sharks, and now the very fabric of our land ownership has come under attack.
What will your house be worth in 10 years’ time with legal claims on it from three different tribes and physical intimidation by the local Hapu brandishing knives and clubs and blocking the road with spikes?
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
…. yes, I am expecting all kinds of comments from people telling me I am a stupid redneck bigot; that it’s ‘payback time’ and people like me had better get used to it etc etc etc.
My answer is that I have been in this country for 42 years and I have worked hard and paid my taxes and, even though I have been a citizen for amost all of my time here, I now thank my lucky stars that I can still get out due to having another passport which will entitle me to live in my dream Normandy farmhouse.
Fuck you, John Key. There are hundreds of thousands like me all getting itchy feet.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Dave Mann,
Iwi can claim on crown land and crown land only (okay, F&S too now, if historically proven).
That’s why a lot of them have got forestry land back (i.e. it used to be theirs).
Read a book.
Vote:September 16th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Ten years ago the ordinary rational well-informed person would wet himself laughing at the very notion the the Maoris could even CLAIM any rights over the whole seabed of New Zealand…. let alone actually be virtually given it.
Twenty years ago ditto all the forests that New Zealanders have worked their arses off to establish and planted….
Thirty years ago ditto the idea that the little-known Treaty Of Waitangi could have any relevance at all to modern new Zealand….
Tomorrow all the remaining Crown Lands, the National Parks and DOC land.
The day after tomorrow all the local council owned and administered land and resources.
The day after that comes the biggie. The final nail… The day of reckoning when the ‘evil colonialist’ fiction which used to be called ‘New Zealand’ finally falls annd all privately owned land and its improvements come under tribal ownership. They will probably let us continue to occupy it for a while, provided sufficient compensation is given….. but who knows? Things move fast and they are moving faster by the year.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:06 am
can we repeal Tim Selwyn’s jail time,
can we give him plus 18 months,
plus 18 months of fun and good times,
here is to you Tim Selwyn,
Vote:from Paul Scott