The taxpayer funded lies continue

September 22nd, 2010 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

TV3 report:

John Key is accusing of lying in advertising material it’s sending out ahead of next week’s increase of 12.5 percent to 15 percent.

Labour leader Phil Goff says he stands by the flyers, which claims National is adding 15 percent GST to all power, phone, rates and food bills.

Pretty clear they are lying.

Chris Wright thought something was wrong when a Labour Party pamphlet turned up in his letterbox, and he was right to question it.

“It’s just wrong, they’ve just added 15 percent to everything and that’s what GST is going to be. And that’s not the case, no I thought it was going up 2.5 percent,” says Mr Wright.

The pamphlet sent out by Labour MPs highlights the increase in GST next week.

But instead of saying it’s going up 2.5 percent it adds what it calls National’s 15 percent GST rate to all power, phone, food, rates and car bills.

“It says National 15 percent as though National has just added 15 percent,” says Mr Wright.

But Mr Wright was further confused when he rang Labour’s head office – he says the woman there told him, yes 15 percent is being added to the current 12.5 percent.

“She told me GST was going up 15 percent and I said ‘does that mean it is going to be 27.5 percent’ she said ‘yes’,” he says.

I guess merely telling the truth that the GST increase will push prices up by 2.2% doesn’t scare enough people.

In one of the examples Labour starts with a GST exclusive $189.34 power bill and adds National’s 15 percent of $28.40. The power bill becomes $217.74.

But Labour should have started with a $212 power bill including the 12.5 percent GST that Labour introduced.

National’s 2.5 percent increase actually amounts to $5.74, not $28.40.

Prime Minister John Key is accusing Labour of lying.

“Labour is using taxpayers money to get these lies out into the public domain,” he says.

National, or someone, should complain to the Advertising Standards Authority. I’d say it was an open and shut case.

Mr Goff says it is not his problem.

“National has increased it to 15 percent; therefore it’s National’s 15 percent.”

Do you really want Labour back in Government with this attitude?

The equivalent would be Labour putting income tax up from say 19% to 21%, and National putting out pamphlets that tell you that your take home pay is going to drop by 21% because of Labour.

It is so fundamentally dishonest, that it really i indefensible.

One senior Labour MP told 3 News the brochure is technically correct but he accepted it was a bit “exuberant” in places.

Just like the 2005 pamphlet claiming National will evict state house tenants if elected.

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78 Responses to “The taxpayer funded lies continue”

  1. Mark (497 comments) says:

    Lefties always lie

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  2. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    Goff is going to defy the laws of physics and manage to look like even more of a plonker when people get their next power bill and see for themselves that the bill has only gone up by a few dollars.

    Perhaps we should gift him a GST flag so he can wave it around out the front of Parliament like another complete muppet we know well.

    Mind you, I would like to express my sincere thanks to him and his colleagues for ensuring that National remains in power for at least another term.

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  3. malcolm (2,000 comments) says:

    Never mind. A fair chunk of the population will be confused by explaination of the confusion, DPF. However if they believe prices are going to increase by 15%, then chances are they don’t understand what 15% is, anyway. So no problem.

    Just keep it simple. Price will be 102.2% of what they were prior to the increase – Holly hell, the government is doubling the price of everything!

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  4. Say Goodbye to Hollywood (553 comments) says:

    Typical modus operandi from the left. Confuse, lie and blame someone else.

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  5. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    Anyone else find the site was just broken????

    One senior Labour MP told 3 News the brochure is technically correct but he accepted it was a bit “exuberant” in places.

    BULLSHIT!! How can that be? IT JUST CAN’T!!!

    Never come across such a lying pack of bastards.

    And are they going to reverse it??

    NO

    Fucktards…….

    Wonder if I’d get into trouble if I called the entire lot of them “silent T’s? :)

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  6. tankyman (120 comments) says:

    has anyone got a scanned copy – Im happy to lay a complaint to the advertising standards auth. (seems they didnt deliver them to our neighborhood – perhaps because our locals can do maths)

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  7. RightNow (6,646 comments) says:

    Key has capitalised on Labour’s deception very well I thought, he’s basically turned this material against Labour.

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  8. beautox (430 comments) says:

    Why didn’t they tell the truth and say that GST is going up by 20%?

    After all, a rise from 12.5% to 15% is in fact a 20% rise !!

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  9. malcolm (2,000 comments) says:

    Anyone else find the site was just broken????

    Yeah. “Error establishing a database connection” and it’s been happening for the last 2-3 days AFAICT. I’ve emailed DPF about it.

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  10. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    The whole of the leftist political construct is underpinned by deceit. (ie- follow our doctrine and we will bring you Nirvana) And its always so easy for them to lie, for by means of that very same construct, they have no morality, and anything is permissible to them in terms of advancing their political agenda. The only constraint is the fear of being caught out, and they’ll weigh that inconvenience against the effect of the lie as they most likely have done in this case.

    Quote-

    “We will take them (the right) down at every opportunity, we will use every tool at our disposal.”

    Unquote

    100 million dead at their hands during last century are testament to the left’s moral bankruptcy.

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  11. Brian Smaller (3,983 comments) says:

    Just like the 2005 pamphlet claiming National will evict state house tenants if elected.

    Now there is a policy I would vote for.

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  12. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,790 comments) says:

    Surely a complaint to Mr Speaker must be in order? How is it that these ratbags get public money for such blatant and dishonest party political rubbish?

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  13. Brian Smaller (3,983 comments) says:

    Red – did you see the study based on Chinese State Archive material opened in 2005 that showed that Mao’s Great Leap Forward 1958-62 killed 45 million people? And lefties still think Mao was some sort of good guy.

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  14. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Why didn’t they tell the truth and say that GST is going up by 20%?

    After all, a rise from 12.5% to 15% is in fact a 20% rise !!

    Quite correct.
    And that’s how any other price increase would be portrayed. So the Faux outrage from DPF is rather disengenuos really isn’t it because niether Party are actually telling the truth.

    [DPF: Don't be stupid.

    The prices of goods or services will increase 2.2%. The absolute increase in the rate of GST is 2.5%, and the relative increase is the GST is 20%. All fairly simple. But none of them excuse Labour for making it look like prices will increase 15% instead of 2.2%]

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  15. Mark Petersen (1,360 comments) says:

    “Mark (246) Says:

    September 22nd, 2010 at 10:15 am
    Lefties always lie”

    If you changed that to Politicians some of us may beleive you. Lets hope that you are not naive enogh to think that the right and left both do not resort deception from time to time.

    Labour have been stupid here and Key has scored a flurry of political points. Goff is not the sharpest leader labour have had

    Personally I am not a fan of the GST rise as it is without doubt a regressive tax that penalises the low paid to a greater extent. As a small business owner it is a pain in the neck frankly. The timing of this rise in the middle of a recession is difficult for many small business operators. When margins are so squeezed we will have to absorb this additional GST or lose customers further eroding those thin margins

    I am fast becomming sceptical that this national government will deliver in a number of key policy areas for small business operators, especially around compliance costs. The GST rise is just another situation where I am spending a lot of time working for the government for free, not only do I work for them for nothing but if I get it wrong they whack me with fines and penalties. GST may be the wondertax for the free marketeer, for small business it is just another comliance cost and more unpaid work for the government.

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  16. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    Viking2: so if Labour put income tax up from 19% to 22%, that would be a 15% increase in income tax, or a 3% increase? I’m pretty sure in general usage we’d say income tax had gone up by 3%. You may be semantically correct in saying it has increased by 15%, but most people would be able to see you were an idiot. Same with GST.

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  17. Fot (252 comments) says:

    I wonder who in our political media will cover this story with total impartiality….

    Fran Mould?

    Kris Faafoi?

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  18. wreck1080 (3,725 comments) says:

    I’ll say it again, Labour supporters are often the less educated and if the boss said it, then it’s true.

    Phil-in could have said GST is increasing to 50% and many would simply believe it because he said it.

    So, Phil is certainly being somewhat mischievous, and congrats on using such effective tactics. Can you blame him, even if it is morally corrupt to lie?

    National would never get away with such tactics simply due to the higher levels of education among it’s supporters.

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  19. malcolm (2,000 comments) says:

    @Paul

    I’m pretty sure in general usage we’d say income tax had gone up by 3%.

    True. But this is a good example of the general usage being ambiguous and sloppy – something I’d expect by Simon Dallow. You should say “the income tax rate has increased by 3 percentage points“. At a push you could say “the income tax rate has increased 15.8%” but using % increase when you’re talking about percentages in the first place is just plain confusing.

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  20. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Red – did you see the study based on Chinese State Archive material opened in 2005 that showed that Mao’s Great Leap Forward 1958-62 killed 45 million people? And lefties still think Mao was some sort of good guy.”

    Yeah I did Brian. So many of their heroes are mass murderers and killers- Che Guevera another stand out example. A cold blooded killer and murderer whose face is emblazoned on t-shirts worn by the left all over the globe.

    They have no moral restraints, and it is only because firing squads are so undignified that they have dropped out of favour.

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  21. Tom Gould (141 comments) says:

    And when Key says that everyone will be better off under his ‘tax shift’ then that’s not “lying”? Maybe he meant to say ‘tax shaft’? Being accused of lying by Key is just like being accused of duplicity by Hide.

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  22. Nick R (497 comments) says:

    This is pathetic stuff from Labour. They ought to be able to do better than this. It’s the lack of respect for the intelligence of the public which really appalls me. Either they are too dim to get it right, or they think the public is too dim to notice the errors. Either way – pathetic.

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  23. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    It must feel really insulting to be a labour supporter when your party treats you like stupid enough to accept this utter bullshit from Goff.

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  24. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I am fast becomming sceptical that this national government will deliver in a number of key policy areas for small business operators, especially around compliance costs.”

    Unbelievable that you ever thought they would. The National Party today is largely made up of the same kind of socialist that exists in Labour. Until we get real choice in government you’re wasting your time voting for National, and for you to believe that they might offer you something as a small business owner is an example of such staggering naivety and gullibility it beggars belief.

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  25. Psycho Milt (2,255 comments) says:

    It must feel really insulting to be a National supporter when they treat you as stupid enough to accept the bullshit they’ve put out about teacher salaries. Er, except National supporters do actually seem to be that stupid…

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  26. Rich Prick (1,538 comments) says:

    Perhaps your garden variety Labour voter is thick enough to believe it. No wonder they oppose national standards, the Labour Party can hardly claim to be numerate if this is anything to go by. Or they are just bullshitting again.

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  27. Pete George (22,765 comments) says:

    Why can’t they just say it’s going up from 12.5% to 15% – if they had done that they could have made some political mileage, now they just look stupid over it.

    And, even if they had portrayed it accurately and honestly, I think it’s a bloody waste of taxpayer money sending out rubbish like this. Those who need to know and want to know already know.

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  28. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    Except I’m not a national supporter and I’ve spent more time dumping on Key than you have so stick up your ass sycophant.

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  29. Inventory2 (10,095 comments) says:

    Let’s not forget the “Axe the Tax” bus trip earlier in the year. Labour spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars (yes, every sign on the bus carried the Parliamentary crest) broadcasting a message which Labour has no intention of delivering on. Goff had admitted that Labour will not roll back any increase in GST.

    Labour is a party of hypocrites of the worst order.

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  30. s.russell (1,559 comments) says:

    Phil Goff is right … in thinking that no intelligent person is going to vote Labour anyway, so there is nothing to lose in going after the votes of the easily confused instead.

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  31. Yvette (2,687 comments) says:

    Can we spot the irony between this post and the previous one.
    How bigger fucking morons does Labour think we are?

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  32. Pete George (22,765 comments) says:

    Perhaps a bit cynical s.russell, but this sort of money wasting rubbish will certainly influence how intelligent people may vote.

    Yvette, I did notice the bouquet followed by a bloody great brick. Unfortunately it’s deserved.

    I2, I’d rather not remember the magicless mystery tour. Goff shows some signs of intelligence and common sense and then undoes it in larger doses.

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  33. adamsmith1922 (888 comments) says:

    And here was I thinking that nice Clare Curran meant what she said about honesty, transparency and truthfulness!

    Obviously I have a different dictionary

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  34. Guy Fawkes (702 comments) says:

    What is most concerning? The deliberate lies with the crap maths? Or the fact that they seem to know how to continuously waste our money on blatant partisan electioneering?

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  35. mattyroo (961 comments) says:

    The worst thing about this, they have used our fucking money to insult our intelligence.

    OUR FUCKING MONEY!!!

    If Labour thinks this is the best use of a hundred nicker, then any wonder they are in opposition, with zero credibility.

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  36. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “And here was I thinking that nice Clare Curran meant what she said about honesty, transparency and truthfulness!”

    You need to look up her past thesis on the use of language. Real Soviet style propaganda that could have been written by any mindless apparatchik in Stalin’s Ministry of Information way back then.

    http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly34.htm

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  37. Sam (497 comments) says:

    I cannot find any surprise in my reaction to this – par for the course if you ask me, just revealing that Goff and Co. have learnt nothing from the mistakes they made while in government when it comes to using public money for blatant propaganda.

    With this lot in opposition the right could have identity fraudsters in their caucus and still be more electorally attractive than labour.

    Oh, wait…

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  38. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    On the plus side, anyone dumb enough to believe these lies is probably a Labour lifer anyway, so I can’t imagine it having much impact on the vote, if anything it’ll push the more intelligent sector of the population towards National when they see what contempt Labour has for their intelligence.

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  39. Simon (680 comments) says:

    “Do you really want Labour back in Government with this attitude?”

    How about stop borrowing money & increasing GST to fund the income tax cuts. Just cut spending.

    Cant tell the difference between National & Labor.

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  40. Yvette (2,687 comments) says:

    I was holding back here to allow teachers plenty of room to comment on matters of literacy and, more important, numeracy.

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  41. Nigel (508 comments) says:

    Leaving aside the confusion of dictators using communism as a vehicle for their own ends ( Mao/Stalin ) and left wing ideology this is plain madness.

    I just read an article in the AA mag breaking down road fatalities & it’s highly unlikely that reducing the alcohol limit will have any impact, like even one death.

    But it’ll have a major impact especially on rural communities & fundamentally I think it’s unfair for townie leftie idealogues to needlessly introduce rules which not only won’t solve a problem but will alienate yet more of the population towards roading regulations which seem out of whack with reality, or at the very least the enforcement ( eg. speed cameras on straight clear roads vs areas which have high accident rates ).

    Why is it ACC which is left to have the only rational road safety message out there ( drive to the conditions ), mmm the grim reaper on the corners is also excellent, but really most bear little resemblence to the reality of driving & actually encourage bad driving ( suggesting slower speeds is safer creates a dangerous mindset IMHO, slowing to match the conditions is definitely safer, but just driving at a slower speed is not necessarily safer, as that “slower” speed can very easily still be to fast for the conditions ).

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  42. jackp (668 comments) says:

    “Do you really want Labour back in Government with this attitude?” DF

    I don’t want either government back in power. That is why I will probably vote for Winston. Both governments are deceptive. John Key made a promise not to raise gst. He lied. Also, wonder what this will do to the GDP since its performance was dismal this last quarter .6 percent increase. Wow, something to write home to mom about.

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  43. slightlyrighty (2,496 comments) says:

    Seriously Jackp?

    You would vote for Winston becaue you think both governments are deceptive?

    Do you have alzheimers?

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  44. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Good on ya Simon, whether it’s Liarbore or the National Socialists they both think money forms at the end of rainbows, poor deluded souls.

    Well fucking said Nigel, brilliant. Many of us rural residents are sick to fuck of these scum sucking lefty townie pricks that proclaim laws for all from their ivory towers in the big smokes. These bastards don’t give a flying fuck about saving lives it’s about pushing a warped ideology and flexing political muscle that rocks these arseholes boats.

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  45. Pete George (22,765 comments) says:

    Seriously Jackp?

    You would vote for Winston becaue you think both governments are deceptive?

    Do you have alzheimers?

    Who else votes for Winston?

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  46. tvb (4,197 comments) says:

    12.5% OUT OF 15% BELONGS TO LABOUR.

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  47. jackp (668 comments) says:

    Yes, that’s why I am voting for Winston. I was deceived by John Key. He got in on the coat tails of Don Brash’s Orewa speech. That put National back up almost immediately. If it wasn’t for the free interest studen loan bribe, Don Brash would have won. National is a little better than Labour but since the foreshore and seabed repeal, John Key lost my vote. He has raised taxes something he promised he wouldn’t do. People voted for him because they were tired of Helen. I noticed by watching him, He says one thing for appearance sake but will do the opposite for $$$$. To him that whole thing is about money. I watch him in parliament, he is not a leader. I like Act but they might not be in office next year. The purpose for voting for Winston is to dilute national’s lead. If Winston got back in, I would be pissed if he formed an alliance with National. That would be my biggest worry.
    Some room for thought.

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  48. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    You would vote for Winston becaue you think both governments are deceptive?

    Do you have alzheimers?

    Probably not, but there are more and more people saying the same thing.

    We had an aspirational goal to catch Australia but that’s been pushed aside now. we are destined for mediocre. Failure to govern and lead. Failure of having goals to suceed.

    I see the propaganda today is exalting bike riding tourists as our future moneymakers. ERRR dream on.

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  49. Lance (2,441 comments) says:

    O.K.
    So who here that is actually going to vote for Winston…
    doesn’t think he would right royally roger you the moment he had a hint of real power?

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  50. scrubone (3,044 comments) says:

    They haven’t really thought this one through have they?

    What happens when all the people who trust them find out that the price rise barley registers?

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  51. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    HMMM. DPF
    Stupid huh.
    Then as tax rates are going down you would suggest that they are dropping 5% but for political sakes you would say they are dropping 24%.
    Same deal

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  52. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    1. All politicians are at least partly deceptive. Because people vote for politicians who are deceptive, they don’t vote for politicians who tell the truth. We get what we vote for. Kind of like something I remember from my marketing 101 paper – there’s a massive market in NZ for sweet white wine in a bottle with dry written on the outside…..

    2. If you’re changing your vote based on lying, then voting for Winston would seem the least logical thing anyone could do. He’s the biggest liar of the lot of them, so there’s no way you could do that without somehow thinking it was a cunning tactical move (i.e. you wouldn’t do it because you trusted Winston – how could you?) Uou indicate that towards the end of your comment – you’d be gutted if he supported National. So that means you want a Labour govt, so why don’t you just vote Labour – then you wouldn’t have a risk.

    3. If you really want to vote for an honest party that does what they say, probably the Greens are as close as you get. Of course, what they say is completely insane, but they also act insane once in parliament, so no lying there. ACT didn’t do as they said, so can’t be trusted. National actually ran a govt, and were forced by economic circumstances to break some promises – I thought most people were OK with that, clearly you weren’t. Labour lied about all sorts of stuff, Peter Dunne flip flops, couldn’t trust him, Anderton will be gone. I guess Maori could be an option – they’ve mostly done what they said they would, even in govt.

    Remember Winston lying to the select committee about the money he’d accepted? How could you vote for that?

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  53. Spoon (101 comments) says:

    I was impressed by the idiot TV3 found the other day. He was absolutely convinced he was going to be worse off after the tax shuffle. It then cut to TV3 doing the maths – $20 a week more in the hand, $15 per week more outgoing in GST, leaving him $5 better off.

    They then cut back to him saying he still thought he was going to be worse off.

    That’s pretty crappy of TV3 – firstly they shouldn’t have the guy on at all because he’s talking rubbish, and secondly it’s pretty rude to put someone on TV and show thousands of people how stupid they are…

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  54. RRM (9,428 comments) says:

    Picture of one of these fliers please?

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  55. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “and secondly it’s pretty rude to put someone on TV and show thousands of people how stupid they are…”

    Try and understand Spoon. They went through hundreds of Labour supporters trying to find one who wasn’t stupid, but in the end they gave up and used this guy because he was one of the brightest.

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  56. Yvette (2,687 comments) says:

    “Yes, that’s why I am voting for Winston. I was deceived by John Key”

    Remember Winston swearing his party would remain on the cross benches ‘to keep them honest’ and vote issue by issue. How long did that promise last?

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  57. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    Picture of one of these fliers please?

    What? Are you not able to find one yourself?

    Or do you think TV3 is lying about the pamphlet?

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  58. Pete George (22,765 comments) says:

    Here’s one shot: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sleemanj/7399

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  59. Psycho Milt (2,255 comments) says:

    They then cut back to him saying he still thought he was going to be worse off.

    Perhaps because, unlike the govt and its supporters, he doesn’t feel obliged to pretend that a cup of coffee’s only going to increase in price from $3.50 to $3.58.

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  60. Inventory2 (10,095 comments) says:

    @ Milt – I venture to suggest that more cafe owners than not will leave the cost of a coffee at $3.50, and suck up the GST increase.

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  61. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    @Milt: what do you think will happen to the price of a cup of coffee? $3.60? $3.50 with increase absorbed? $4 and take the risk that your customers will go to the guy down the road who’s selling at $3.60 or $3.50?

    You seem to think that $3.58 isn’t plausible (and I’d agree, since you can’t get 2c of change), but I’m guessing you’re not getting excited about the difference between $3.58 and $3.60?

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  62. RRM (9,428 comments) says:

    What? Are you not able to find one yourself?

    Or do you think TV3 is lying about the pamphlet?

    I know only what I have seen on this thread. That makes me want to see the source for myself.

    Your e-thug is less impressive than you think it is Bevan.

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  63. jackp (668 comments) says:

    I know Winston has a few issues with integrity but at least I know what I am getting. Don Brash’s task force came up with a lot of good ideas like keeping government spending down to 2005 levels.. This way there wouldn’t have to be gst rise and infact there could be a low flat tax. Don Brash gets a lot of bad press because the press is pro union. But he was a principled man. Key shot it down faster than shit through a goose. I voted for National because I thought they would do something like what Don Brash suggested. They won’t and don’t intend to. Instead they listened to a few scholastic idiots that their only realm of reality is in a classroom. I don’t see much change from National. The Maori elite are going to make billions and should be kissing John Key’s ass.

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  64. jackp (668 comments) says:

    sorry guys, getting off the subject

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  65. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    Nope, interested jackp.

    Very interested in how the problems and concerns you describe could possibly be resolved by voting for Winston. The only potential advantage is that last time you voted for someone, and as you see it they broke their word and didn’t implement policies that would help NZ grow. If you voted for Winston, he definitely wouldn’t implement policies that would help NZ grow, but he wouldn’t have promised them in the first place.

    But, another way to look at things is, if you vote for Winston the chance of getting policies that will help NZ grow is precisely zero. If you vote for ACT, 50% chance they just don’t get back in and your vote is wasted, 50% chance they do get back in, and if they do you can be pretty sure they’ll hold to their principles and push for good policies. If you vote for National, good chance they’ll get in, 50% chance they continue to be soft cock labour-lite (putting words in your mouth there – I actually think they’ve done OK given the need to actually remain in power), 50% chance they take one more step towards the right and implement some policies you want.

    So, voting ACT or National, 50% chance you get what you want. Voting Winston, zero % chance.

    Just saying.

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  66. DJP6-25 (1,268 comments) says:

    [Brian Smaller 10:31 am] I saw the post. I think it was on Arts and Letters Daily.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  67. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    # Yvette (1,058) Says:
    September 22nd, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    “Yes, that’s why I am voting for Winston. I was deceived by John Key”

    Remember Winston swearing his party would remain on the cross benches ‘to keep them honest’ and vote issue by issue. How long did that promise last?

    FUCKTARD

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  68. DJP6-25 (1,268 comments) says:

    [Yvette 11:51 am] That will happen approximately 30 minutes after hell freezes over.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  69. jackp (668 comments) says:

    PaulL, you’ve got a point I understand what your saying. I feel like Redbaiter, I am just pissed off at National especially after this foreshore and seabed fiasco.

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  70. Pete George (22,765 comments) says:

    Need a ballot paper option “I want to register a vote, but none of the above”.

    Then a more accurate level of mandate may be expressed. Currently if you don’t like anyone it can be a bit of a dilemma.

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  71. jackp (668 comments) says:

    “soft cock labour-lite (putting words in your mouth there)”

    Hope your not putting those words in my mouth, I am not Chris Carter.

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  72. Brabus (31 comments) says:

    “I know Winston has a few issues with integrity”

    You sir have a gift for understatement.

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  73. Inventory2 (10,095 comments) says:

    Actually, I think it’s the other way around; integrity had some major issues with Winston Peters ;-)

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  74. ch123 (558 comments) says:

    jackp (467) Says: September 22nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    “I know Winston has a few issues with integrity but at least I know what I am getting.”

    Really? If you vote for Winston you *don’t* know what you are getting. He might go with National. He might go with Labour. He’ll go with whichever one will give him power, even though he tells us he doesn’t want the baubles of office.

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  75. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    @ch123:

    If you vote for Winston you *don’t* know what you are getting

    You’ve just described the generic problem with MMP: The tail wags the dog, and the shape of the government is determined by shady backroom deals where principles are sacrificed for power and status.

    It is so fundamentally dishonest, that it really i indefensible.

    Indeed. Sadly it’s Labour’s MO.

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  76. thedavincimode (6,529 comments) says:

    jackp (467) Says:

    September 22nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    “I know Winston has a few issues with integrity”.

    Really; I didn’t think the two had met. Continue to advance the case for voting entitlement being subjected to a minimum IQ threshhold jackp.

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  77. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    It’s almost as dishonest as saying that teachers are paid $71,000 on average when that’s a blatant lie. That hasn’t stopped Anne Tolley from deliberately telling porkies. No doubt you’ll report that with the same vigour.

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  78. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    I am bemused by John Key’s comment that: “Labour is using taxpayers money to get these lies out into the public domain”. Hang on a minute – who said that GST wouldn’t be increasing if National became the govt? The same Mr Key. I find it curious and a little ironic when someone caught out in a blatant lie rails aginst another for lying. Sorry, John, on this issue you don’t have any credibility.

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