Way forward bleak for ACT
September 17th, 2010 at 12:18 pm by David FarrarUPDATE 1218: David Garrett has resigned as a member of ACT. He is taking two weeks leave to decide whether or not to continue as an Independent MP.
For my 2c David can not continue as an Independent MP. He is a List MP and got there on the ACT list. He may need a few days to come to this conclusion, but it is the only viable one.
Earlier: I’ve spent a couple of days thinking about this, and I have to conclude the future is bleak for ACT. Not terminal necessarily, but their brand may be too damaged to repair.
It was a critically bad decision to keep Garrett’s offending secret. While what he did was very bad (and one can only have immense sympathy for the family of the deceased infant, who are having to cope with all of this), it could have been handled, if prior to the election it was revealed. NZers do not expect MPs who have never made mistakes.
But keeping it secret, while one rails against crime and suppression orders means that ACT is seen as hypocritical. And the nature of the offence risks them being seen as a bad taste joke.
So how do they move forward?
An absolute minimum is that David Garrett must be removed as Law & Order Spokesperson. It is impossible for him to perform that role with credibility anymore.
But I don’t think that will even be enough. So long as David remains in the ACT Caucus, this will remain an issue. Some may say it is unfair (remember Trevor Mallard remained an MP despite being convicted of assault – while an MO, of another MP, and in the lobby of the debating chamber), but this is about political survival.
Also recall that there will not be inquiries into whether Garrett should have disclosed his Tongan conviction to the courts. I am sure he will face complains to the Law Society. The Tongan doctor is alleging a different set of facts to him, and more witnesses may come out about that. ACT can’t afford to have this dominate reporting on them for weeks and months to come.
If Garrett resigns, then Hilary Calvert would become an MP. She is well regarded within ACT (not a star, but a safe steady performer insiders say) and she is loyal to the leadership. It is a myth that she would be a vote for Heather.
So in my opinion ACT need to do that. However, that still leaves them some problems.
Rodney’s standing is damaged by this, and questions will be asked about why Garrett is deemed necessary to resign now, yet Rodney was happy to have him as an MP when it was secret. Rodney will need to acknowledge that this should have been made public before the election. Now to be fair to Rodney he was not the only person who knew of this.
Another issue, is where did this stuff on Garrett came from? If it did come from people with ACT, then it signifies that they have scorpions in their ranks who are happy to kill off the entire party so long as they can poison their target. As I understand it the number of scorpions is small – four or so. But they may need to be exterminated.
But even if you get past that, you have the very difficult challenge of re-establishing a brand for ACT that can attract support and allow Rodney to retain Epsom.
I would say ACT has mainly had three brands – low taxes, hard line law & order and perk busting.
Both of the latter two brands are destroyed or seriously damaged. That laaves the low tax brand. The problem there is that a minor party’s impact on tax policy is always going to be relatively small. And anything you do achieve the bigger party can get credit for,
What else can ACT build their brand on – they can go down the “Maori Party has gained too much path”. But Winston is already there, and he will always be able to push that barrow more effectively.
They can position themselves as the anti ETS party. But now 1 July has been and gone, and the world did not end, I am not sure if it will be much of an issue next election.
Maybe to some degree, one can’t draw up a path for survival at this point. But one can take a couple of steps in the right direction. See how you are doing, and then plan the next two steps. But any mis-steps are likely to be fatal.
September 17th, 2010 at 11:23 am
They shouldn’t have adopted the law and order policy they have in the first place. ACT has always been the Low Tax party and its deviation in my opinion has tarnished that brand. It’s time for them to move back to their roots and campaign solely on the reduction of the size and power of the state and the resultant reduction in taxes.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:29 am
You missed the most important one.
Vote:Anthropogenic Climate Change is a complete hoax with enormous potential for economic damage.
(OK – I see you mentioned that later)
September 17th, 2010 at 11:34 am
They’re toast.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:35 am
The faction within ACT that is doing this are a small group who have no business being in politics or in any team environment. Their selfish egoism is entirely destructive and it will not enhance their reputations to tear other people down.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Problem with Act going ‘back to their roots’ is that their roots are in 1980s neo-lib economic theory and gives them a votability of about 0.5%. Without populist policies such as their anti-ETS stand and Laura Norda, they are basically unelectable.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:37 am
Very thoughtful post Mr Farrar.
So many questions, and just as many answers.
The first thing ACT needs to do is remind people if ACT goes out one door, Winston will come in the other. National will have a coalition government with a bigoted Winston against a racist Maori Party. ACT needs to remind people of that. It’s John Boscawen, Rodney Hide, and others, or bigots and racists. You choose NZ.
The second thing is for the brand to change from a “dog-whistling” tough-on-crime party (boring with a capital B) to a more classically liberal party. Sure, you’d lose the conservatives in the party, but a total shift to a social and economically liberal party is a start.
The third thing you do is bring in very new young blood in 2011 in a total cleanout. Hide must stay, Boscawen too, but Garrett, Douglas and Roy must be consigned to the scrapheap. The next three places can be filled with people like David Seymour or Helen Simpson. Where have they gone?
The fourth thing they do is change the name of the party – call it something like the NZ Free Democrats or similar.
Fifth, change colours, logo etc.
There is more. But ACT seems finished unless they embark on a total remodeling. I’d hate to see ACT go and Winston back, but there was always a fear with ACT I think that it would be brought down, not by the voters, but by internal ructions – which is bearing true. Roy and Ewing are destroying what hundreds, if not thousands, of volunteers and activists have worked for over the years. That’s the sad part.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:37 am
Oh yes, definitely in the Right direction.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:37 am
I will not vote ACT again. But I’m willing to be part of something new. Just set up http://realnzparty.org.nz. If you are interested, go there.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Exactly!
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:43 am
The “Anthropogenic Climate Change is a complete hoax” line severely diminishes the the importance of “with enormous potential for economic damage”.
This is a symptom of one of Act’s problems – oppose the ETS and get associated with the ignore-the-science camp, propose tougher penalties and get associated with the throw-away-the-key brigade etc.
To regain integrity they need to find a way of separating reasonable policies from been seen to cater for extreme pressure groups.
The “us or Winston” threat is just trying to scare people into backing them, have they got anything positive at all to promote?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Rodney Hide’s credibility is zero. Beyond zero – he is a liability. There’s civil war in the party and rogue elements running interference. The ACT brand is indeed tarnished beyond repair. They have a far-too cosy relationship with the Sensible Sentencing Trust and appear internally conflicted on social issues.
A new small government, lower taxes, business friendly party is needed.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:50 am
What Radman said. They’ve gone to the trouble of bringing back Roger Douglas the master economic theorist, and for what? All they appear to be using him as, is a mantelpiece ornament – Hey look who we’ve got!
Their main 08 campaign slogan was “NZ needs a change of government, and then it needs a change of direction.” I voted for the other side but I thought that was a very good sentiment, if it were true. But we’ve heard precious little more about this “change of direction” since the perkbuster got the Super City job. Perhaps Act have forgotten they are meant to be trying to change the country’s whole economic performance?
Or perhaps they are realizing that talk is cheap when you’re the opposition, making stuff happen when you’re the gummint is harder?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:54 am
They need to get rid of Hide and start again. You can’t base your party on a one man personality cult and you can’t have leadership no body trusts. The guy is in parliament solely at the whim of JK- so in effect JK is the one calling the shots in ACT, Hides job is to cajole, beg, borrow and bribe his MPs to stay together, so that JK stays happy with him and does not oppose too strongly in Epsom next time.
In short whilst Rodney remains leader they ahve no autonomy, no coherent ideology and no unity. You can’t get more hopeless leadership than that.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Trevor Mallard was convicted for “fighting in a public place”, a less serious offence than assault. Assault is where you beat someone up. A fight is where two people mutually/consensually assault each other.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
they’re soo close to rooted…. Any thoughts on what this means for national longer term?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Said scorpions need to be exterminated before Garret can go..
@ Radman – David Seymore and Helen Simpson are having too much of a good time on their OE’s to want to be in NZ I think!
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Dr Puloka is a known asshole in Tonga. He has always used his high profile position (in the country/community) to intimidate other people especially those whom he regards as inferior to him in terms of wealth (by way of island scale) or in terms of connection to the royal & nobility circles. He frequently goes out to bars with mates (often younger than him) that act as his wingman, so one of his wingman will usually approach a chic and asked her to join Dr Puloka at their table. Puloka and his mates do this sort of thing frequently even if they know that the woman is already booked. Puloka and his mates were belted at a Christmas party at the Tongan Yacht Club in 2005, because he was trying to make a move on a wife of a relative of mine from my village.
I also heard that there were similar incidents like that, in the late 1990s, where bar brawls erupted in various bars in Nuku’alofa that got involved Puloka and his wingpeople. So, when I first heard about Garret’s conviction over assaulting this asshole Puloka, I thought, Garret must not have started it because Puloka is well connected even to the Police/Judges etc,… That’s exactly what the bloke from my village whose wife that Puloka tried to hit on at a Christmas party at the Tongan Yacht Club in 2005. He said that one of Puloka’s wingman hit him first when he confronted Puloka not to harass his wife. When the cops turned up, my relative and his mates were arrested but not Puloka or any of his wingman.
I think that Mr Garret gave Puloka what he’s always been looking for. If you look for trouble, then don’t cry-baby when you receive one. So, Puloka never learnt from David Garret back then in 2002, because he and his mates received some good blows from the dudes from my village in 2005.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Radio NZ says that Garrett has quit Act, but not parliament.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
@ Falafulu Fisi.
I have a relative who is a businessman in the islands (first PNG, now vanuatu) and runs into the same sort of people/behavior you describe. Usually the cops are also in for some sort of bribe to suppliment their pay. Average kiwi doesn’t understand how corrupt the island countries are. (you’d be amazed to hear the sort of things he’s been charged with – simply for being a wealthy european in the islands, and its cheaper to pay the ‘fine” than deal with the courts)
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Piggy, if that’s the case couldn’t Rodney write to the speaker to enact the law that Labour and the Alliance made in 1999?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Newstalk says Garret has resigned – my take is that he is leaving Parliament – inevitable in the circumstances.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Ahhh well….at least hes done the honorable thing I suppose.Sad to loose him but I guess there was no way back.At least he gave us three strikes so his main task was done.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Before ACT thinks about policy they need to sort out some rogue members. Apparently there were few members who knew of Garrett’s history. Hopefully they can find out who leaked this to the media.
I read somewhere that someone claimed that Rodney would kick out a few members. He does not have that power. It takes 75% of the board to do such a thing.
I certainly support Rodney as leader and would do so if there was no 5% requirement of electorate seat requirement. Who else
could lead the party? I am not on the board bur have talked to a lot of members. Apart from Tashkoff and Kevin Campbell who may have rejoinded ACT I have not talked to anyone who thinks he should be replaced.
In regards Garrett, I think we should look at Steven Joyce. Should he still be Minsiter of Transport? He is a minister not just a spokes man with no real power. I believe he should stay as should Garrett.
ACT can survive but is will not be easy. I beleive a small number of people will have to be kicked out as they will not accept the
Vote:views of the vast majority of the membership. Unless the interal problems are sorted out no policy direction will make any difference.
September 17th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
“Another issue, is where did this stuff on Garrett came from? If it did come from people with ACT, then it signifies that they have scorpions in their ranks who are happy to kill off the entire party so long as they can poison their target. As I understand it the number of scorpions is small – four or so. But they may need to be exterminated.”
Yeah that’s right. They’ll be infinitely more electable if they can keep their pasts secret.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
A few points:
1) There’s still a sizeable real right wing voter base looking for someone to vote for.
2) The Nats need to make sure those votes result in seats in parliament.
3) JK won’t dare move the Nats off the centre ground to capture those votes directly.
I do think that Act need to re-radicalise themselves – for instance, where is Lindsay Mitchell’s good sense on welfare reform? I’ve never been a member of a political party, but the day I join one may be at hand…
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
first, I would like to declare that I have been fined for no WOF on a trailer and 2 speeding fines .. nothing else, honest.
Vote:fancy a politician falling on his sword for something he wasn’t conficted of 20 years ago.
Daffy tried to say that he was open about his assult/fighting charge whatever it was .. what a moron, he wasn’t open about it , the whole bloody country knows about it AND it was while he was already and MP .. and Minister
September 17th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
“scuse me while I put on my political grave dancing shoes. Now to get “3 strikes” struck off…
On the subject of Act, it’d be a huge loss to NZ if this was to mean the end of John Boscawen’s career. I’m not entirely sure what he should do at this point…
It’s cynical I know but I’d be advising him to stay with Act till the election (so as not to have to leave Parliament and inevitably fade into obscurity thanks to the MSM’s gnat-like attention span) and then stand as a principled independent espousing the basic principles on which Act was founded before it was hijacked by the SST. If he picked the right seat, he could just about swing it, I reckon.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Garrett got a discharge with out conviction. It is deemed an acquittal. He is legally well within his rights to keep this offending secret. It is common to get a section 106 to protect a clean record. And people truthfully say after the 106 that they have no criminal record. And they are given for these reasons. Garrett was lucky to get this 106. I presume the passport was never used and had EXPIRED by the time the issue came to police attention some years later. But I think this offending was serious, had the passport been used and kept current then Garrett should have gone to jail. But his credibility as an MP on Law and Order issues is well and truely shot. Resignation is the only course for him. Luckily the next person on their list looks very good indeed. So there is hope. Plus I think Boscowan looks quite good as a future Leader. Hide may have to go for the Party to regain credibility.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
^^^ TVB – Graham Capill learned the hard way that if you want to lecture the country on morality, you’d better not be a paedophile.
Hear hear, a list MP is one house voting unit, put there by the public to give that PARTY a certain amount of voting power. That is all he is. (Though obviously in a small party like Act every MP is a feature of the Party.)
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
ACT Media Centre NewstalkZB have been running counter measures all morning.
Vote:It was an adventurous stunt says clueless Leighton Smith as he springs to the defence of his party. We should give these losers a chance he says, they stand for law and order and an open transparent government.
September 17th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Being a list MP and an becoming independent didn’t seem to be a problem for Gordon Copeland
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Talking of politics I see Hone is trying to shock everyone with Bin Laden comments. ACT seems to be hogging the headlines so Hone tries to get in on the act. I would suggest Hone would be right at home making cups of tea for Osama.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
A few years ago a friend of mine who was an active ACT party member resigned immediately when Donna Awatere joined the party – something about leopards & spots. At that time ACT was pretty well focused on low taxes/small government; I think the law & order and perk busting stuff were later add-ons.
A small party is critically dependent on the credibility and performance of ALL its MPs, whereas the likes of National & Labour can get away with having a few loose cannons. So if ACT can have a cleanout and get back to basics they may survive, but not otherwise.
Incidentally, I’m not sure that the “anthropogenic climate change is a complete hoax” line (PG@11.43) can be attributed to ACT. They are certainly anti-ETS – someone needs to be! – but I doubt they would say that humans have absolutely no effect on climate, although it tends to be localised rather than global, eg the melting icecaps on Kilimanjiro appear to be a direct result of deforestation at the base – a local environmental issue but not a global climate change one. In any case, the anti-ETS thing fits under the low tax umbrella.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
I am confused (I think!?) … could someone please ‘nail’ the provision of the Electoral Act that allows for a List MP to resign from his Party and remain in Parliament as an Independent.
And if there is such a provision it sure makes a mockery of MMP (or more a mockery than it already is).
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
You are all hypocrits for persecuting a person who has already been before the courts.
Vote:It would appear the assault offence is a jumped up one in a Country know for its slippery ways but the Press carry on as though it was legitimate.
The pass port one (though distasteful) has been tried and dismissed without conviction 26 years ago along with name suppression but the press push along creating angst for the family concerned probably the original reason of the name suppression.
September 17th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
JohnG, I didn’t say attributed, I said associated – when a few of the extremers attach to Act for it’s anti-ETS stance it’s hard to avoid the two looking like a single campaign.
And – a problem with painting yourself as the lower tax party limits your options. It’s possible that a properly implemented carbon tax could be beneficial, but if you have already fixed yourself as anti tax it makes it difficult to back what may be best.
(Carbon tax effectiveness is debatable and unproven, and it’s hard to see a non-compromised version getting any traction anyway due to competing interest groups)
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
@JohnG- sadly the ETS has nothing to do with the environment, despite it being ‘sold’ that way to the NZers. It’s a eco-guilt mechanism designed to:
a) supply wealth to a forestry-sector support constituency, and;
b) extract more targeted tax revenue from an apparently wealthy sector (farming), and;
c) lift the profits of SoE electricity generators.
Like you said, ACT were absolutely right to oppose the ETS. Someone needed to as none of the whipped National MPs dared speak their mind.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
I would hope this had been sorted out by now and wasn’t allowed, otherwise it would make (another) mockery of MMP – unless in this case Garrett does the proper thing and resigns from parliament.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
IIRC ACT were a lot more (relatively of course) popular back in the 90s, when in terms of tax/government they were a lot more ‘extreme’. There’s a whole history of ACT at http://liberation.org.nz/ which I can’t really be bothered reading again…
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Pete George: Gordon Copeland – ring any bells?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
The decision of Garrett to quit is a great victory for the Left and for the left wing mass media. Act does now seem to be on a path to destruction as the Left Wing Media will now focus on destroying Rodney aided by discontents within the party. This will be a total disaster to National who will be rule at the mercy of the Maori Party. The odds on Labour returning to power at the next election now look good.
Vote:Taking into consideration all the aspects of the actions of Garrett and the timeline I don’t think he did much wrong, and don’t think he needed to leave Act except to mollify the Left Wing Mass Media… In achieving the three strikes law he achieved what both main parties have promised for decades yet always reneged on. He took positive action to ensure that vicious recidivists were dealt to. It’s a great shame that we are losing such a man from Parliament.
September 17th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Also, when is Steven Joyce going to resign over not declaring his driving convictions?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
“I would say ACT has mainly had three brands – low taxes, hard line law & order and perk busting.
Both of the latter two brands are destroyed or seriously damaged. That laaves the low tax brand. The problem there is that a minor party’s impact on tax policy is always going to be relatively small. And anything you do achieve the bigger party can get credit for,
What else can ACT build their brand on – they can go down the “Maori Party has gained too much path”. But Winston is already there, and he will always be able to push that barrow more effectively.”
Theres plenty of options:
1) Repeal the anti-smacking law. An interesting strategy could be to make this a bottom line and the main focus of their election campaign.
Pros: Get christian right vote. Appeal to more social conservative side of ACT.
Cons: May annoy some libertarians (most libertarian agree with the bill but will change ACTs brand)
2) Education Reform. Same as above exept running an Auckland based campaign around school zoning and bulk funding schools and preformance based pay on teachers.
Pros: Keep libertarians and conservatives on side
Cons: Limited constituency
3) Direct democracy. Promote binding Citizens Iniaited Referenda
Pros: Reinforce option 1
Cons: Maske the party look populist, Limited constituency
4) Bash immigrants/Maori
Pros: Worked well for most politicians who tried it
Cons: Winston stealing same stuff, annoy libertarians and damege liberal brand, if immigrants attacked large asian constituency in Epsom may be reluctant to re-elect Hide
Best option. Continue low taxes, but add a populist flavour (same income splitting for families). Also include some of options 1 and 3. Also promote education reform, and a bit of maori Party bashing. Steer away from immigrants though.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waka-jumping
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Some say we need new parties to replace the old, which I tend to agree with, but it is almost an impossible road to hoe.
Vote:Just look at the mayoral race in Auckland between Banks and Brown. Could Colin Craig be a viable alternative? Who knows, the new boys hardly get any press coverage to evaluate them.
I thought the Family Party had great policies in the last elections (and still do) but to get any traction was almost impossible.
So basically many want change without changing anything, and that is an impossibility! Interesting days.
September 17th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Time for a new coalition partner
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
From a centre-right perspective I don’t think ACT policy is really an issue and/or needs to be reinvented, though I would like to see a tougher line taken on immigration, i.e. one rule for all and bolder initiatives for education, e.g. offering Mandarin language classes at all schools in NZ.
They need to sort out their internal problems and present a united face, otherwise ACT probably is terminal and National run the risk of being back in opposition again. The only way National would survive is if they maintain their current poll ratings, and historically spaking that is unlikely closer to the election.
Policy is their main strength and I for one would like to see them speak out more on issues such as ETS, GST, though it is hard with a left-wing media that ignores them.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
@Backster.
Well said, this is a disgrace IMHO.
He was discharged without conviction and that should have been the end of it.
We all do things as young people that we are not proud of in later life I suspect. The person/people who raised this are responsible for the new round of anguish for the family on the alter of political points scoring and they should be ashamed of themselves.
David Garrett resigning on this is a weak ass situation, he should have gone back on the attack and outed the assholes who did this, pointed at them and said while my actions were at fault I have owned them and it was in the past, these people are responsible for this latest round of pain and anguish to the family.
If you go down, do it fighting. Do not go quietly because left wing journos and sacked insiders have it in for you.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
There is no fucking good party to vote for in this country.
I voted ACT last election, but after Rodney’s tax payer spend on a holiday, Roy’s roll and now this… I no longer feel comfortable voting for them.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Theres plenty of options:
1) Repeal the anti-smacking law. An interesting strategy could be to make this a bottom line and the main focus of their election campaign.
Pros: Get christian right vote. Appeal to more social conservative side of ACT.
Cons: May annoy some libertarians (most libertarian agree with the bill but will change ACTs brand)
Most libs I know want the law gone…its effectively the nationalistion of children under the guise of “child protection”.
2) Education Reform. Same as above exept running an Auckland based campaign around school zoning and bulk funding schools and preformance based pay on teachers.
Pros: Keep libertarians and conservatives on side
Cons: Limited constituency.
I suspect most parents would find that rather appealing….?
3) Direct democracy. Promote binding Citizens Iniaited Referenda
Pros: Reinforce option 1
Cons: Maske the party look populist, Limited constituency
…and counter to ACTs belief in the soverignity of the individual.The tryanny of the mob and the repression of individuals by the collective are things we need less of…not more.
) Bash immigrants/Maori
Pros: Worked well for most politicians who tried it
Cons: Winston stealing same stuff, annoy libertarians and damege liberal brand, if immigrants attacked large asian constituency in Epsom may be reluctant to re-elect Hide
Totally counter to ACTS priciples.Thats Winstons gutter to swim in…let him have it.
Whats really needed is cull of the current leadership and an injection of the more true to principle members of ACT on Campus who will follow and expose ACT’s Classic Liberal values without the tired old baggage we currently see. The future voter base is young and liberal….thats what ACT needs to project if its to prosper and grow.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Political scandals are often compared to Watergate. The main issue isn’t the initial wrongdoing but it is the attempt to hide it.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Pete George: Gordon Copeland – ring any bells?
…drummer for The Police ?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Rodders you are right. People who decide to become a moral authority who arent squeaky clean tend to come unstuck. Thats whats happened here, Garrett like Graham Capill is a hypocrite.
Vote:Wonder where hes going on holiday and which passport he will use
September 17th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Well I hope ACT use this to get their house in order, still plenty of time before the election. As the only party right of centre New Zealand desperately need them. If they go, then what? National given free reign to be a slightly better looking Labour party, Maori party given even more leaverage to divide the country on race, Winnie back? No thank you. Oh no 26 years ago Garrett wasn’t an angel, meanwhile government spending continues to increase billions every year, national debt continues its skyward trend, and NZers continue to leave for greener pastures. Good times….. NOT.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Firstly there is plenty of precedent for Garrett staying on as an independent. I don’t think it makes much sense but there is precedent for MP’s staying on usually for purely financial reasons.
Secondly Mallard got away with it because everyone knew he was a meathead. The assault just didn’t seem out of character for him (or Henare) so people just got a good laugh out of it. It was only the media and the beltway that got upset about it.
Garrett (like Capill) set himself up as being tough in an area and then was shown to be a hypocrite at best. The lack of transparency is what people hate.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
He must go.
Vote:Rodney may well have to too.
Unless he can regain support from voters, which I doubt he should become the 2ic and Boscawen become the leader.
I don’t know if he is man enough to be able to do that, being honestly and faithfully someone else’s no 2.
My take is that he is shot as leader, as knowing all the history and keeping mum, actually shows he isn’t leadership material.
September 17th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Fuck it, we should just let the left wing media rule New Zealand and forget about parliament altogether.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
DPF : You said “As I understand it the number of scorpions is small – four or so. But they may need to be exterminated.”
I couldn’t agree more. Heather Roy is rotten from head to toe. She has leaked before and she will leak again in the future. She has no credibility or integrity left, and it appears she is a compulsive liar. Ironically she doesn’t seem to support transparency and accountability for her actions – the classic being when she was sacked as deputy and wouldn’t accept responsibility for the leaking of her own document (regardless of who did it).
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Oh, here’s a great idea for the Association of Criminals and Tax Lawyers…..
Just wheel out the sun-baked old trout from Hong Kong to start abusing anyone who blogs bad things about Rodney.
Rodney has to go too. His judgement is far far worse than Garrett who told Rodney at the start that he didn’t think he could stand for Parliament with his record of dishonesty. It was Rodney that said to him ‘don’t worry old chap, we’ll just keep it under wraps and no one will be any the better.’
Rodney *HIDE* is right. Hiding this from the public make the odious little man even more dishonest than Garrett, and that really is some accomlishment.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
I don’t see how any of ACT’s shennanigans can have any real effect on New Zealand politics. They are irrelevant sideshows; meanwhile National and Labour seem to be working together with exactly the same policies and exactly the same planned outcomes – the only difference being which one will beat the other at being first to promise the most to the Maoris.
Politics in this whole stupid country has become one sick joke.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Same planned outcomes? Name these shared outcomes our two major political parties have planned please. tia.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Hagues “Well I hope ACT use this to get their house in order, still plenty of time before the election”
Vote:You are so right on this. All this rubbish that is going on is merely a sideshow. The clowns involoved in no way represent the real ACT. And there is a huge space wide open on the political spectrum that will allow ACT to forge ahead with the pressing matters that constrin this country from growing in the economic arena.
All this is smoke-it will blow away and ACT will emerge stronger. My message to all the ACT supporters-don’t get disheartened as that plays right into the hands of the silly lefties.
September 17th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
The faction within ACT that is doing this are a small group who have no business being in politics or in any team environment. Their selfish egoism is entirely destructive and it will not enhance their reputations to tear other people down.
LOL You just described EVERY faction in ACT!!!
Had to laugh at mention of my old co-conspirators Seymour and Simpson. There are a few of us in exile around the world. Like Macarthur, we shall return. Give us another ten years, my pretties and all New Zealand’s Base will belong to Us
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
With this latest drama ACT’s toast. It’s all falling apart very publically. Key will probably hang in with the rump of the ACT party through to the next election. Then, if the Nats have any sense, they’d stand a decent candidate in Epsom and no longer give the electors there the nod to vote for Hide. ACT’s brand has been fatally compromised and it’s now in an irretrievable tail-spin.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
10 years is too late Blair…ACT need a cull and the young blood bought in….NOW!
That would revive the party,return it to its roots in freedom and individual sovereignty,make it more appealing to the younger voters who are after all the future,and overall wipe a lot of the slate clean.There is some great talent within ACTs younger ranks…it needs to rise up fast.
I like Rodney et el but things must change.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
This very dark cloud may indeed have a silver lining for ACT if their highly risky expose designed to kill off Garrett and McVicar, and rid the party of the crazy Sensible Sentencing clowns, and then Hide himself, comes off. They can then rebuild on the basis of their original ideological platform.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
I wrote an earlier blog on this matter that if Richard Prebble was leader he would have told Garrett to shove off and certainly not invited him to join the ACT team. Rodney in turning a blind eye to the passport fraud showed shocking judgement. Leadership is about judgement. Rodney’s position is indefensible.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Umm… some of the shared outcomes are
- the blatant and continued attacks on our productive base via their delusional ‘carbon’ schemes,
- the steadfast refusal of both parties to reduce the depth and scope of governmental interference in our lives
- both parties’ implicit support for busybodies’ efforts to criminalise parents’ child discipline choices
- both parties’ absolute refusal to address the question of entrenched multi-generational welfarism
- the almost unconscionable effort of both parties to protect and nurture financial fraudsters at the expense of producers
- etc etc etc etc
The list is almost endless. There is almost NO discernable difference between National and Labour. There was very little difference before the last election save for a few bland slogans which have been shown up for the worthless shit that they were. National was in fact called ‘Labour Lite’ and now with their capitulation to the racist party’s mafiosi, the Labour Party itself has shown itself to just another pathetic bunch of quislings.
I would say ‘a plague on both their houses’….. but I honestly wouldn’t be able to think of a plague bad enough to deal them both what they actually deserve.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
James – I think Dave would make an excellent National MP for Whangarei, and Helen should unseat Lindsay Tisch in whatever they call his constituency at the moment. Let’s not waste our time in the sandpit with these minor parties and their childish quarrels.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Well you can just luv it all. Back to National and Labour with a sprinkling of Green or brown,.
Vote:Its time to leave me thinks.
September 17th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Garrett was a one trick pony-we have three strikes now and he had no further value. This process has actually helped the party. And James “There is some great talent within ACTs younger ranks…it needs to rise up fast.” I could not agree with you more
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
I hope this cretin is not going to go back to practising as a lawyer. He must be struck off for his dishonesty. I hope the Law Society are moving quickly to do this. He is a disgrace to the legal profession.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Get back to “the liberal party”, with a focus on social liberalism and removal of bad legislation from the books. I’d still vote for that, frankly the SST crowd put me off ACT and I was thinking about not voting for them this time round, the stance on climate change annoyed me because they took that too far. Tack to the popularist side of the right wing, my vote goes away. Move back to a socially liberal side, maybe I come back.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
@ummmm Don’t be silly. How can anybody possibly be a DISGRACE to the LEGAL PROFESSION?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
@ ummmm “I hope this cretin is not going to go back to practising as a lawyer”
Vote:Hey you can take part in a gan rape, become police commissioner, fall from grace, study to be a lawyer while being paid heaps of taxpayer money…and be admitted to the Bar. What is a little deception and fraud between friends??
September 17th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Dimes 2 cents:
Rebrand. Everyone goes but Rodney. Rodney swallows his pride as brings in a new party leader. I think Rodney is a good local MP and has value as a minister. Just not a great party leader.
ACT! used to have quality MP’s. They all seem like loons now. BUMMER!!!
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
James – I think Dave would make an excellent National MP for Whangarei, and Helen should unseat Lindsay Tisch in whatever they call his constituency at the moment. Let’s not waste our time in the sandpit with these minor parties and their childish quarrels.
For all the good that would do they might as well stand for Labour.National is sterile….what does it bring in terms of making NZ more free and properous?
ACT needs a bleedout,a refocus on its reason for being and the goals its trying to achieve and a game plan to get there.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
ACT were destined to fail from the start. Anyone with basic political knowledge and/or experience could see through their facade of being ‘Liberal’ and that really they were just for greedy National voters with more dollars than sense. As their true colours emerged, the perk-buster was abusing perks, the crim-buster actually a crim. It takes a special breed of idiot to believe in homeopathy but not climate change. Laughingstock.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
“Helen should unseat Lindsay Tisch in whatever they call his constituency at the moment.”
Man!….you obviously have no idea about Tisch’s constituency.
I am not defending Tisch, IMHO he is a lightweight, however the people who he represents would vote blue if Stalin himself was standing for National.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Fot – yes, I am talking about a contested National Party selection.
James – I seem to recall the wondrous things Jack Marshall, Derek Quigley, Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble, Trevor De Cleene and Ruth Richardson did for ACT while they were in parliament… oh no! Wait! they were in NATIONAL and LABOUR!!!!!! Guess that’s how you get things done in this country huh.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
I have a cunning plan to avoid the horrible prospect of National not having Act MPs to help it form a Govt: Tell the Act voters to vote National. Problem solved.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
My advice to Act would be to revitalise their lineup with an emphasis on ability rather than pandering to certain demographics. To repackage. And not to aim too far with policies, for example it’s all very well having tax ideals like lower tax and flat tax but it’s pointless if it’s unlikely to happen and puts off more moderate voters. Far better to have potentially achievable goals rather than great ideals that will never happen.
One part of realistic policies – it’s no point in having policies that are based on “if we were in government”. Best to base them all on what is far more likely – “when we are a minor coalition partner” and “when we are a minor opposition party”. And don’t rule out doing deals with any government, whether in formal coalition or not. Best to have some influence rather than none.
It would be a real shame to lose Act from the mix. It’s going to be a difficult rebuild but easier to resurrect an existing party with existing structures than start from scratch.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I agree with everyone who has said we need a new party, new brand. Get back to the basics of small govt.
A complete clean out. Ditch the pitchfork brigade.
What’s still worrying is this Hilliary Calvert will not definitively say she has no conviction skeletons in her closet…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10674191
Come clean from the beginning. Who cares… playing hard to get only intensify the reaction when the goss gets leaked.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Key is a populist, as he has cited public opinion as the primary determinant, it does not seem to matter if any principle is involved.
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
This all happened a long time ago and is no different to any other MP who has convictions. THere are probably many more who have broken the law at some time but not been caught.
Garrett is the most honourable person in Parliament right now.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
@MikeMan hear hear.
People who have been through the courts and prosecuted, sentenced and served their sentence are supposed to have paid their debt to society.
Hide is a fool for believing he could keep it quiet. His head should roll instead.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
This stopped being about Garrett the minute we learned that Rodimus, and indeed the rest of the caucus knew about this. This is Roddy’s fourth strike: 1) the nature of his response to the travel grief; 2) his inability to manage a caucus that could fit in a phone both in terms of the way he dealt with the silly schoolgirl Roy, 3) insisting on Garrett standing, and now 4) the cowardly way that, having made the decision to pick Garrett knowing of the substantial downside, he’s given Garrett the arse when it did go bad and told him, of all things, that he “has no future in ACT”. This has nothing to do with people doing the right thing; it is all about the rats fighting over the lifeboats and Rodney is the King Rat.
Its sadly ironic that after giving career creep WR Peters so much grief, that in the end Rodney Rat appears to have expended so much effort in chasing Peters that he started to think like him. Its OK as long as nobody finds out.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Anyone remember Trevor De Clene? Till his death he slept with a gun under his bed. No convictions though.
Vote:There is a list of past pollies with worse behaviors than Garrets.
There’s ones that have been in the police force, there’s ones that have been in unions and there’s ones that have been business people. What’s the fuss if it isn’t about destroying democracy.
September 17th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Yet again and for the umpteenth time this has exposed politicians to be 2 faced arsesholes and arsesolesses. They just dont get it.
They lack the ethics and morals to be able to make good judgements and do the right thing at the right time.
Even when they are caught in the head lights they try and lie thru their teeth saying blacks white.
Thats why I and many others have no time and no respect for them. If they want to get respect then they gotta earn it.
By doing the right thing at the right time.
I expect them to have the same ethics and morals at least as I do Otherwise they are inferior beings that I look down on.
So what they want to control my life well sorry folks being financially independent and paying you your fat undeserved salaries and perks means I owe you nothing and you owe me heaps.
Only problem is you cant dont deliver. Promises promises and more promises all broken all lies
Yes I have voted ACT from the beginning and YES ACT are a huge dissapointment but no more so than the rest.
But as i believe democracy is crap but all the other systems are worse i will continue to vote and continue to regard pollies as the inferior beings that they continue to show themselves to be.
When they clean up their act (pun intended) then and only then will I start to think about having any respect.
So what you say. Well when enough of us think like that the pollies should be very afraid When you piss off enough people as the French aristos found in the late 1700s your heads can be swiftly separated from the rest of your body.
Think on that arseholes.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
^^^ This.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
at 12:43 above, I announced my convictions .. tearfully I might add, but no-one else has??
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
speaking of convictions, where’s Philu? eh??
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Anyone remember Trevor De Clene? Till his death he slept with a gun under his bed. No convictions though.
There is a list of past pollies with worse behaviors than Garrets.
And sleeping with a lawfully owned shot gun under your bed is the business of the law just how exactly?
Funny thing is Garrett once told me that he did exactly the same thing!
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Nothing wrong in the eyes of the law James. Its what caused him to need to do so.
Vote:Trevor was a character, tough, verbose and a barrister.
September 17th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Retraction
Rodimus appears to have lucked out with the porky affidavit so strike 4 is unreservedly withdrawn.
But does it really matter given that Rodimus and his caucus have been perfectly happy to sit in Parliament knowing this? Whatever they say, they kept it quiet knowing that it was damaging and they can’t escape that. If Whaleoil is correct in his suspicions about the source of the leak, then it says even less of a caucus member that was happy to go along with this when the going was good but spills the beans when things go tits up.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Here’s something to ponder over. Barristers by their very occupation know where a lot of skeletons are hidden.
What skeletons will surface now that the Barristers have been provoked.
All politicians have skeletons. Even John Key.
Mad Mike might not have found them but they will surface in due course.
Its now notable that Key essentially told Garret to resign. Could this have anything to do with Garretts opposition to the Foreshore and Seabed Legislation in the house currently?
Legislation that has had its name changed so we won’t recognize its evil intent. Legislation that gave a Cabinet Minister utter discretion and final ruling over giving to Maori that which they are going to claim, irrespective of the rights of the rest of NZer’s.
No more free beach or fish, guys. But then socialists never do those things anyway do they.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
People unassociated with ACT and the incestuous infighting,
Vote:find Heather Roy more likely to increase the total vote at the next election.
She doesn’t have the right wing puglist label.
She also wears green knickers and thats good
Repeat Heather Roy is more likely to regain public confidence.
Rodney had contrived that she would be placed so low on the list, that he invited waht happened.
peterquixote
September 17th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Forget about Act unless you can attract people with sound political experience and judgement.
People attack the major parties but they are major because they attract people of high political calibre.
The Greens is the only party to try to emulate this in my view (and I am not a fan of them in any way). Of course the Greens are not really any different from any other party in Parliament but they at least have stuck to their principles, as all of the other minor parties are populist in nature. This is a fatal character flaw.
Hide’s latest buffoonery is just the latest in a long line of proving like Peters he is not fit to lead a political party, having repeatedly shown poor judgement on a long line of occasions over his entire political career.
There is enough grounds for Key to disown them at the ballot box next time around and consign them like Peters to the graveyard.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
JohnG – if your friend left the ACT Party when Donna Awatere Joined that means your friend was there before ACT was founded, as she was a founding member along with Derek Quigley, Sir Roger Douglas and Rodney Hide, amongst others. You sure about that?
bchapman “You can’t base your party on a one man personality cult” Err, it worked with Helen and National ok.
I am sure that Garrett will leave altogether and Hilary Calvert will come in and will keep the party free from trouble until the election. This will mean that Heather will have to tell her attack dog Simon to stop leaking. Whether or not she will do this is another thing, but there are quite a few bitter angry ex ACT people out there who seem to want to destroy the party altogether, forgetting that there will not be anywhere to go after 2011.
If ACT Mps or supporters went to National – and many have – they will be bloody miserable. Look at all the dead rats that they are swallowing now under a supposed right wing leader? The Nats have a softcock Blue Libs wing that is there to appease the ex ACT members but it is just window dressing and a way to keep their vote straying back to ACT. There is no way I would ever tell an ACT supporter to vote National if they wanted anything done as we know it simply won’t!
Keep the faith I say. No point writing the party off (yet again). ACT has Rodney, John and Roger who are all head and shoulders ahead of any 3 Nats both in deeds, actions and philosophy. Heather can bounce back and Hilary isn’t known to be a slacker.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Clint, faint heart never won fair lady, I suppose.
Vote:September 18th, 2010 at 10:27 am
@Clint Heine, thanks for the info. My recollection is that Sir Roger Douglas & Derek Quigley formed ACT in 1993/94, and that Donna Awatere joined later ((1996?) and entered parliament that year. But I may well be wrong about the timing. What I do remember clearly is that my friend, who worked for me at the time, came into work one day almost apoplectic about Donna’s involvement – but it may have been about her being put on the list rather than her joining the party. As he has since died I can’t check it with him now.
Also, I seem to recall that she was dismissed from parliament (as a list member) under some Act [as in legislation] at the time, but can’t find it now. So maybe Garrett is not obliged to leave parliament, but it would be prudent for him to do so.
PS I started this post last night when the lights suddenly went out in Remmers and simultaneously my UPS failed. A fat lot of use that investment was. So decided it was time for bed. At least I could find a torch.
PPS Was one of the many so-called tactical voters for Rodney Hide in the Epsom electorate last time – but then the alternative was one R Worth Esquire so no real surprises there.
Also watched Rodney Hide on Closeup & thought he handled Mike Hosking quite well.
Vote: