Carter is probably telling the truth
October 14th, 2010 at 12:00 pm by David FarrarThe Herald reports:
Labour MP Charles Chauvel is thought to be one of the three members of Parliament Chris Carter claims he plotted with about a leadership change on the night before he sent an anonymous letter to media.
Mr Chauvel denied plotting against Labour leader Phil Goff but said he could have been in Mr Carter’s office on July 28 – the night on which Mr Carter claimed he met with three other Labour MPs to discuss the best time for a leadership change. …
His submission to the disciplinary meeting in defence of his actions was leaked to media and included the July 28 meeting as well as a further claim that there were 17 Labour MPs with whom he had discussed a change of leadership.
I think on this occasion, Chris Carter is telling the truth. And the Labour MPs all denying that have ever had any such descussion about the leadership are probably relying on Clintonian definitions.
I have some experience of being in an Opposition (as staff, not MP) which is struggling in the polls. Let me tell you that the leadership is discussed constantly, and by most MPs. The notion that Labour has spent two years in Opposition, are constantly 20%+ behind in the polls, has a Leader who fails to make 10% as Preferred PM, yet they have never discussed leadership options is insane. I would even wager on any given night there are MPs talking leadership options. This is how MPs socialise – discussing who will be the next Leader, and when. Most of us discuss the rugby – MPs discuss the leadership!
So Carter I am pretty sure is telling the truth that he would have discussed leadership changes with at least 17 MPs.
Now Labour MPs in their denials use terms such as “plot”, saying “I have not plotted against Phil Goff”. This is different to have you ever discussed the leadership and under what situation would you want to change it (such as Labour staying below 30% for more than three months). An MP will not regard their frequent conversations as plotting, until it reaches the stage that there is a definite challenger and you are commiting yourself to that challenger.
As far as I know there is no challenger (mind you Shane Jones looked like he would before his hotel porn episode put paid to that), and hence Labour MPs can deny formal plotting. But as sure as hell, a very common topic of conversation will be the leadership and whether they would do better under another leader.
Carter suggests that in at least one discussion, they had discussed the best time for a leadership change. Again, this is quite plausible, but it does not mean there was in fact someone willing to challenge. The conventional wisdom is you don’t change leaders in election year, so any change would have to occur in the second half of 2010. It would be quite natural for MPs to be talking in terms of “If there is a challenge, then it has to be in November”.
So if Carter does name any names, the questions that should be put to them is not “Were you plotting to roll Phil Goff?” to which they can honestly answer “No” but “Did you have discussions with Chris Carter about the leadership of Labour?” which they will find it harder to deny.
UPDATE: A reader writes in:
Both Chris Carter and Charles Chauvel were on the Select committee hearing submissions on the Local Government Amendment Bill over the period that Carter drafted and dropped off his letter. Indeed they sat next to each other.
Carter was really edgy and kept on getting up and leaving and at one point he asked Chauvel to leave the room with him. They had a 5 minute chat and then they both came back into the room. Chauvel was then looking just as worried as Carter. At the time I thought it all very strange and was wondering what was going on. I then heard the news on the radio as I was driving and everything fell into place……
Very interesting information.
Related posts:
- Carter defiant and calls for a new leader
- Editorials on Carter & Goff
- Carter names Mallard
- Goff’s Carter problem
October 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
At this stage I don’t think a drop of truth ina sea of sef rightous entitlement and wild flailing is going to tip the scales for Chris.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
One thing I know for sure is that ALL and I do mean ALL poliies are devious treacherous and would stab their grandmother in the back if it meant gaining an advantage.
Still they provide entertainment all be it very expensive entertainment for students in human behaviour.
They bring out the worst traits in what would otherwise be sane people.
Thats why we the citizens must watch them like hawks.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Why is Chris Carter doing talkback on RadioLive this afternoon when we are paying for him to be present at his workplace? By my reckoning, he hasn’t fronted up in the debating chamber since July.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Because he is entitled to take money out your wallet Inv. ENTITLED you hear!
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Look it’s worth having him away from the house for as long as possible, every day he is left feeling isolated and alone is another day he has to pluck up the courage to spill the dirt on his ‘above the law’ collegues.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Question to Chris Carter [á la - 'Have you stopped beating your wife?"]
sent to Radio Live on which Carter is supposed to answer questions between 2 – 3 pm this afternoon
“Regarding the information you have told Phil Goff you may release, is this material of importance for the general public to know, regardless of your relationship to Goff, or not? – and if it is, why do you not release it for our knowledge any case?”
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Another question for Chris Carter: Do you not think that at the age of 58 you are a bit long in the tooth to be running around saying “I’m going to tell on you” when you don’t get your own way?
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Question for Chirs Carter, when are you going to get a job and start contributing to tax take after years of taking from it?
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Goff’s leadership status is that of “nightwatchman” (in cricketing terms) – there is ZERO chance that who will be next in has not been discussed by all the caucus.
Whether Goff has been privy to these discussions is another matter…
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
@ 3-coil – the big question now is whether the nightwatchman can survive everything that the bowlers throw at him prior to stumps, of in Goff’s case, Election 2011.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
A delicate flower, Chris(tine) Carter conspired with another diva, the “virile” Charles Chauvel? What a surprise!
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Hell, it’s not the bowling he has to survive. It’s the return throws from his own side.
Labour is so bad even the Three Wankers would beat them – just as they are going to whip the appalling Slack Caps.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
@ Inventory2,
Unfortunately / Fortunately depending on how one looks at it MP’s are not Employees, they are an elected or appointed (ministers) office which don’t fall under the definition of employment, basically its up to Leaders, Whips, Speakers Rules and Peer Pressure to control things, which works fine if you want longevity but if your on a blaze of glory quest like Carter it ain’t so good
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
bearhunter, murray
Vote:you questions [1:17 and 1:23pm] have been forwarded to Radio Live
October 14th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Carter clearly is not telling the truth. As you explain, DPF, such conversations around the performance of the leader are bread and butter for caucus members. I’m certain there are members of the National caucus who have bitterly criticised Key for coming over all dumb-struck and adopting his trademark silly grin when confronted with Paul Henry’s over racism on live nationwide television. Does that mean some National MPs want to roll Key? Of course not. Neither do conversations amongst Labour MPs over Goff’s performance and prospects mean there is a coup in the making. The only truth in play here is that Carter is a pampered and spoilt pet whose enabler and protector is now in New York, and he is struggling to cope with reality.
[DPF: All parties have conversations about the leadership. However the ones in Labour will be of a very different nature to any in National. Some MPs in Labour do want Goff gone, but are sticking with him because there is no better alternative. I don't think anyone in National is sticking with Key just because there is no alternative - generally they are very enamoured of him]
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Tom, Henrys “racism” is a subjective issue. The majority of people do not accept it as having been racist and the leftist tendancy to thrashing a claim to try and make it sound true isn’t going to fly here.
Don’t you have an election to bitch about?
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Tom,
“The only truth in play here is that Carter is a pampered and spoilt pet whose enabler and protector is now in New York, and he is struggling to cope with reality.”
Agreed. So his ‘tell all’ threat really does amount to attempted blackmail. Foolish foolish individual. How he was ever made a Minister beggars belief
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Brings to mind fairy rings and toadstools.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
“How he was ever made a Minister beggars belief”
Vote:Because he’s Gay
October 14th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
And was Helen Clark’s pet.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
This brings to mind John Tamihere’s statements about Labour being full of people who do nothing but plot. They have no life outside of the politics of the party.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
If Cater is not in politics and he does not exist outside politics will he dissapear in a puff of logic?
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
if Chuck is one of the plotters then it really is time to man up …. oh
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
You lost me after “Carter is probably telling the truth”.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
A bitchy little club, Chris & Charles.
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
I suppose it’s statistically possible for someone on the left to tell the truth. I would geuss it’s a rarity though.
cheers
David Prosser
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
The empire strikes back
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4233982/Carter-fined-for-Parliament-absence
Vote:October 14th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
“I don’t think anyone in National is sticking with Key just because there is no alternative.” DPF, not so. Simon Power could very easily take over from Key, and maintain high poll numbers. In many ways, he would be a better PM. I’m certain that he would have given Henry a serve, unlike the dim witted Key.
Vote:October 15th, 2010 at 4:01 am
Charles Chauvel is the master of being unable to recall details. It’s his trademark. His only claim to fame is getting drunk on a flight and telling off a few tiny kids.
Vote: