Herald debunks PPTA claim

October 4th, 2010 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

How excellent to see a media outlet investigate a claim made, rather than merely report it. The Herald reports:

The head of the secondary teachers’ union has claimed teachers deserve a bigger pay rise than police because nobody is queuing up to be a teacher – but Herald inquiries have found the claim does not stack up.

Universities have reported significant increases in the numbers applying to become secondary teachers over the past two years, which most attributed to the recession prompting people to retrain in areas such as teaching because of job security.

Most schools of education have had at least double the number of applicants for the spaces available. This year, Auckland University had 905 applications for the 340 places available.

So the claim there are no queues is in fact completely untrue. Not only is there a queue, it has doubled recently and less than 1 in 2 in the queue will even get in.

Post Primary Teachers’ Association president Kate Gainsford made her “no queues” claim after Finance Minister Bill English said the union needed to explain to nurses, civil servants, police and doctors why teachers deserved double the increase they had settled for.

The salaries of nurses, police and teachers are usually comparable.

Ms Gainsford’s response was that there was a queue wanting to become police officers.

“There is no queue for people wanting to become secondary school teachers. That is the problem, and we don’t want that to become a crisis.”

Problem solved. There is a queue and there is no crisis. You can call the strike off now.

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26 Responses to “Herald debunks PPTA claim”

  1. campit (467 comments) says:

    Perhaps teachers and public service workers should receive the same increase that politicians do every year?

    [DPF: If teachers and PS workers wish to give up the right to strike, in return for having an independent tribunal decide how much of a pay increase they should get, then I am sure the Govt would be keen]

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  2. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    Typical of the teaching “profession” – make up whatever suits the moment.

    Lying again – oh I forgot – what an example to teach our children – become a teacher and learn to lie?

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  3. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    campit,

    Perhaps they could. Perhaps they could also take on the same responsibilities too. Perhaps they could allows us to fire them every 3 years at our personal whim, without justification or reasoning and without recourse to appeal or employment court.

    That might make it a feasible deal.

    Do you think they (the workers) would buy into that???

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  4. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    I know several people who had planned to start teacher training next year but wont because they were declined due to the excessive number of applications.

    Offer to pay them the same as the army see how they like that cut in pay.

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  5. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    Seems like another example of the left spreading mis-information .. getting monotonous.

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  6. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    I don’t know whether no queue equates to no crisis.

    For example, there has been quite an explosion of population in Porirua due to the development of Aotea, and the continued development of Whitby. There is known pressure on the secondary school rolls, and to some extent on the primary school rolls. The primary school where our son has just started has been saying they need another school block and more teachers in order to keep teacher-pupil ratios at the same level.

    I’m not sure restricting the teacher intake is wise. Fewer philosophy and drama places maybe, but not teachers, nurses, engineering…

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  7. trout (939 comments) says:

    A new high school is opening at Papamoa next year; the board has been swamped with applications for teacher positions (in the ‘hundreds’). No local teacher was able to get a position. So much for a teacher shortage? More lies from the PPTA.
    I do have reservations though that successful applicants had to prove they were able to teach in some newly invented mode – is this just another disastrous experiment? (like open plan and combined classes as was tried in primary schools).

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  8. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    rouppe there IS a queue. Thats kind of the point.

    People are being turned away from teacher training.

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  9. tvb (4,421 comments) says:

    Lock the teachers out from the beginning of December until the end of January with no holiday pay. And if necessary lock them out all of February as well.

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  10. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Right, so the PPTA President doesn’t even know the recruitment levels of secondary school teachers…

    I think they may need a new El Presidente.

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  11. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Don’t annoy self rightous teachers with facts Bevan.

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  12. mpledger (425 comments) says:

    I would be surprised if there are plenty of maths, science, accounting and it/media (qualified) teachers.

    I suspect that there are many subjects not offered or not offered to everyone because of shortages in those areas. It just means that there is no perceived shortage i.e. all the kids are getting taught something but maybe not what the kids would have chosen.

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  13. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “all the kids are getting taught something but maybe not what the kids would have chosen.”

    Yeah, perhaps we should have more teachers qualified in teaching how to excel at video games, how to get a cheap high, how to steal a car, how to do burn-outs, how to maximise your benefit earning potential and how to wear your pants around your thighs.

    What would be nice if the kids would get taught what the parents want them to learn.

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  14. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    As they destroy everything they control, so the left have destroyed public education. It is no longer a workable proposition. Education has to be privatised.

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  15. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    What would be nice if the kids would get taught what the parents want them to learn.

    A lot of parents do that, it’s one of the most important parts of their education. Where that’s lacking is where the worst education problems are. Most kids with good parents survive a mixed quality education ok.

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  16. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    RightNow (1,474) Says:

    October 4th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
    “all the kids are getting taught something but maybe not what the kids would have chosen.”

    What would be nice if the kids would get taught what the parents want them to learn.

    And what’ stopping you teaching your kids what you think they need to learn, in addition to the public education system teaching them what they need to learn?

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  17. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    Murray

    Whoops, I articulated that the wrong way. I intended to say ‘just because there is a queue doesn’t mean no crisis’.

    The rest of my post was about how there seems to be demand for school capacity and teachers so restricting entry seems counter-productive…

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  18. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “What would be nice if the kids would get taught what the parents want them to learn.”

    I was wrong with that statement. In retrospect there’s too many parents out there without the basic skills themselves to even have an idea of what their kids need to know.

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  19. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    DPF: If teachers and PS workers wish to give up the right to strike, in return for having an independent tribunal decide how much of a pay increase they should get, then I am sure the Govt would be keen.

    Well funny that you should say that, because that is exactly what happened as a result of the bitter dispute that happened approx 8 years ago. (By the way this was during a labour government, so that puts to bed the rubbish spouted by some people in here that teachers are all labour party members and that teachers deliberately wait until a national government before they go on strike. I know, it sounds pathetic, but that’s what some people here believe).
    Anyway, with considerable damage done to the recruitment and retention of teachers both the government and PPTA agreed to an independent working group to be set up to ensure that further disputes could be minimised and that the teaching profession become more attractive to graduates.
    Things were going smoothy, but guess what, the working group recommended a pay rise that the government baulked at and the working group is now effectively a non-entity.
    So DPF, the government certainly is NOT keen for an independent tribunal because they won’t like to hear from the tribunal what everyone knows – that teachers salaries and conditions are inadequate.

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  20. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    SAY IT ISN’T SO, the left lie again, surely it’s not possible. You have to wonder how these bastards sleep at night, bent over like post staples, it can’t be possible they lie straight in bed.

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  21. GPT1 (2,121 comments) says:

    I am aware of at least one union delegate who has been heard to opine that if forced to strike it might be time to find another delegate.

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  22. GPT1 (2,121 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (11,680) Says:

    October 4th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
    As they destroy everything they control, so the left have destroyed public education. It is no longer a workable proposition. Education has to be privatised.

    Now that would be a response. Vouchers for everyone – take “your” education funding where you want.

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  23. peterwn (3,271 comments) says:

    I do not think there is much of a real queue for those wanting to join the police. AFAIK the police are scratching to find enough suitable applicamnts anyway.

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  24. Caleb (479 comments) says:

    what we lack today is journolists with a brain. (or at least an even spread with disclosed agenda)

    when someone makes such a statement (these kind of bs statements are made all the time) the journo should call them out.

    on the spot.

    are you 100% sure that is correct?
    do you have proof?
    if you are proved wrong, will you stand down or apologise?

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  25. Caleb (479 comments) says:

    i would fully support the police going on strike.

    maybe this country would wake up a bit.

    what is the average teacher salary compared to police???

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  26. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Well done The Herald

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