Well done Len and the left in Auckland

October 9th, 2010 at 1:34 pm by David Farrar

Not online yet but I am told has won the Mayoralty with a pretty large margin, and also that the left hold 11 of the 20 Council seats. I believe C&R have five seats and not sure how the others lie yet.

It’s an over 50% turnout so those who won can claim a good mandate to govern Auckland for the next three years – they have the challenge to make the Super City work, and be an improvement on what was there in the past.

I also understand despite being an incumbent Mayor, failed to even be elected as a Ward Councillor.

With 95% counted it is huge – 220,000 to 160,000 – a real mandate.

UPDATE: Fuller results now in.

  • Andrew Williams got under 1% in his Mayoralty bid. Colin Craig got 40,000 votes – watch him in 2013
  • In Rodney, Mayor Penny Webster got elected to Council
  • In Albany Michael Goudie and Wayne Walker won. Andrew Williams got a humiliating 4,429 votes only – in 10th place!!!! He did beat Cameron Slater, but Cameron will be very happy as his campaign was about stopping Williams. When before has an incumbent Mayor polled 10th just for a Council spot?
  • On the North Shore George Wood stormed him, balanced by Ann Hartley in 2nd place. Two former Mayors.Grant Gillion and Christine Rankin very narrowly behind.
  • Waitakere Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse takes first place locally with Sandra Coney 2nd. An unfortunate result some may say!
  • Mike Lee crushed opposition in Waitemata and Gulf, beating Tenby Powell and Alex Swney combined
  • Noeline Raffills won Whau fauirly comfortably for C&R
  • Albert-Eden-Roskill has a split result with Chris Fletcher 1ston 19,500 votes and Cathy Casey 2nd on 14,000. Paul Goldsmith only 250 votes behind.
  • Cameron Brewer has a massive victory in Orakei, with 17,000 votes to 10,000 for Doug Armstrong. Congrats Cameron.
  • Sadly in Maungakiekie-Tamaki Richard Northey beat the talented Alfred Ngaro by 1,800 votes
  • In Howick Sharon Stewart gets 1st with 22,500 votes followed by Jami-Lee Ross on 18,382. Team-mate Dick Quax just behind on 18,045.
  • Former Mayor Sir Barry Curtis dips out in the Manurewa-Papakura ward, by 1,000 votes behind Calum Penrose. John Walker another 3,000 votes ahead of him.
  • As expected Des Morrison wins in Franklin Ward

And for some of the boards:

  • Gary Holmes got elected to the Hibiscus and Bays Local Board, which will upset Andrew Williams even further.
  • The Upper Harbour Local Board gets Christine Rankin and Brian Neeson.
  • Nick Kearney is one of the few right faces on the Kaipatiki Local Board
  • He’s 85 I think but Assid Corban is back on Henderson-Massey Local Board. Future West got none.
  • Greg Presland makes the Waitakere Ranges Local Board
  • GBI Board Chairman Paul Downey is re-elected to the GBI Board in the regions’ highest turnout race
  • Denise Roche tops the poll for Waiheke Board
  • City Vision get a majority in the Waitemata Board
  • Michael Wood tops the poll for the Puketepapa Board, and his wife Julia Fairey is in third place. They almost form a board quorum :-)
  • C&R win 6/7 seats on Oraeki Board
  • Neelam Choudary misses out on the Howick Board
  • Labour clean sweep the Mangere-Otahuhu Board
  • Labour, including Daljit Singh, don;’t win any seats on the Papatoetoe section of Otara-Papatoetoe Board
  • Colleen Brown tops the Manurewa Board poll followed by George Hawkins
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193 Responses to “Well done Len and the left in Auckland”

  1. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    This will end badly

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  2. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    I look forward to the abject failure of this political group and hope the morons who voted for them learn the error of their ways. More importantly, I hope the so called right learn the error of trying to push a tired old politically confused has-been like John Banks as their prime opposition to leftist hegemony. He doesn’t have a clue.

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  3. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    Seems more Aucklanders like slapping themselves in the face than I first thought.

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  4. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    ..and another thing.

    For weeks we’ve been hearing about what crooked practices the left have indulged in while in office and during the campaign, and when they win, we’re meant to be all gracious and congratulate them?

    How the hell does that work?

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  5. andretti (130 comments) says:

    Means little to me as I dont live in the north,however you guys must have short memories of the term of Hubbard what a disaster.
    Its going to be fun watching from the backblocks.Even better when he makes Sue Bradford deputy!!!!.

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  6. Brian Smaller (4,013 comments) says:

    Yes, Congrats to Len Brown. Auckland have got the mayor they deserve. Remember who you voted for when your rates bill arrives.

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  7. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    This is going to be a fun thread full of good cheer and good humour, isn’t it?

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  8. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Dick Hubbard
    Len Brown

    another fuckwit elected- you deserve it Auckland, just don’t come crying when he bankrupts the city

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  9. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    They probably won’t notice at all but the Nats. had better watch out. Banks got only one term because he appeased al;l the factions and so became politically compromised. Same may happen to the Nats. if they don’t harden up.

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  10. Rufus (655 comments) says:

    This is a car-crash waiting to happen.

    I’m glad I don’t live in Auckland.

    Mind you, here in Chch the situation isn’t that much better. The only positive thing about our local scene is that whoever gets the keys to the Chch kitty will have a much smaller pile of cash to squander.

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  11. shady (246 comments) says:

    Totally depressed! Dickhead lefties trying to get rid of Paul, the best comedic NZ TV entertainer, and Len Brown for Mayor. Can’t get any worse!

    Toad – what would you know about humour?

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  12. the bird is the word (67 comments) says:

    Oh dear…

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  13. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Well said Viking2.

    We need fighters not compromisers.

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  14. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Too many voters without any skin in the game.

    A legion of parasites voted in their thieving representatives.

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  15. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Progress results for the 2010 election show Mayor Bob Parker has been re-elected as Mayor of Christchurch. Voting in the 2010 election closed at 12 noon today.

    This result is based upon 98% of returned voting papers.

    The progress result does not include some special votes and voting papers returned today before voting closed.

    According to the progress result, 68, 245 votes were received for Bob Parker.

    His closest rival, Jim Anderton, received 51, 566 votes, a difference of 16, 679.

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  16. backster (2,152 comments) says:

    Well I hope Banksie gets his old job back as early talkback host on Radio Live.

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  17. Brian Smaller (4,013 comments) says:

    So how did Whale do? did he get more votes than Williams?

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  18. Repton (769 comments) says:

    Remember who you voted for when your rates bill arrives.

    Rodney Hide?

    Oh, wait, most of us didn’t…

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  19. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    @backster
    I hear there is a breakfast TV host position becoming available. Banksie to the rescue?

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  20. Jack5 (5,053 comments) says:

    Thank you Rodney Jekyll Hyde! What have you wrought?

    A super city that will be a continuing leftist political monster, a sea anchor on NZ’s national economic voyage.

    Let’s hope its voting corruption doesn’t spread throughout the country.

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  21. Fot (252 comments) says:

    A victory for deceit, dishonesty, and theft.

    Never mind, the right will have to come along and clean it all up again in three years.

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  22. CHFR (227 comments) says:

    Good luck Auckland…you will need it.

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  23. CHFR (227 comments) says:

    Does that mean we get to find out who was at his birthday bash now???

    Just asking

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  24. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Yep Banksie for breakfast TV host.
    Ya’all deserve it.

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  25. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Well I hope Banksie gets his old job back as early talkback host on Radio Live.”

    Why, so he can whine endlessly about cruelty to animals? Big help.

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  26. adamsmith1922 (890 comments) says:

    It will be very interesting to see where the votes for Brown came from.

    Banks was not the right standard bearer for the opposition to Brown. It looks like Auckland will forever be left in the mayoralty stakes, now that Labour are mobilising the South AUckland vote in droves. C&R need to be thoroughly sorted out. Brown was Labour’s guy, National should have put up a cohesive front, more poor political amangement.

    This will be a nightmare, I can just see my rates bills ballooning and everything getting worse.

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  27. TCrwdb (242 comments) says:

    Is Toad an Auckland rate-payer?

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  28. adamsmith1922 (890 comments) says:

    We now have a mayor who will only tell the truth, with limits, and wants to sing at the RWC. What a disaster.

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  29. nickb (3,686 comments) says:

    This imbecile can’t even manage a credit card, and the fucking morons of jafaland have trusted him to run a city with 1/3 of the NZ population????

    They deserve him.

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  30. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @TCrwdb 2:12 pm

    Indeed, I am. And unlike most here, it seems, I want to see better public transport and better services for the people of Auckland. And unlike most here, it seems, I am prepared to pay for them.

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  31. Fot (252 comments) says:

    On the bright side….think of the fun we are going to have for the next three years tearing the arms and legs off this politically correct wanker Brown.

    Every three months we get to see how much of the rate payers money he is stealing……this is going to be a blast.

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  32. Fot (252 comments) says:

    Happy to have a mayor who is proven to be an abuser of public finds Toad?

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  33. TCrwdb (242 comments) says:

    @Toad

    And you’re happy for him to use your (and mine) rates for birthday bashes with his mates?

    If you believe that Brown is going to do anything about public transport then you’re just a sucker for his BS. And what services need a council provide other than water, sewerage and rubbish collection?

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  34. TCrwdb (242 comments) says:

    Oh, and Toad are you a real rate-payer or a renter who attempts to claim that they are a rate-payer by proxy?

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  35. jaba (2,137 comments) says:

    oh my god
    in a way I’m glad. I will be a shit of a job and Brown will not be up for it .. when it all turns to shit, the left will have to accept responsibility. Oh oh .. no they won’t, it will be National and Acts fault.

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  36. jaba (2,137 comments) says:

    and Goff will see this as his chance

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  37. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    “Every three months we get to see how much of the rate payers money he is stealing”

    Ahh, but will we know what it is going to?

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  38. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Toad

    Oh yes you will pay and pay and pay and pay until you are using super absorbent extra large because you will be bleeding that badly

    I hope you have deep pockets because you are going to need them

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  39. tvb (4,364 comments) says:

    The Labour Party will try and draw some political support from this. But no-one was prepared to openly acknowledge their connection with the Labour Party. Banks did not have the unqualified support of the right and I am unsure why. So his election had to be in doubt.

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  40. nickb (3,686 comments) says:

    Banks would not have been much better, judging from his pinko comments over the last few months.

    Wanting to “eradicate poverty” etc. See what that does to rates…

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  41. TCrwdb (242 comments) says:

    what services need a council provide other than water, sewerage and rubbish collection?

    Parks, public libraries and ROADS spring to mind.

    Note I said NEED.

    NZ govt and private sub-developers pay for most new roads nowadays, the other two are a luxury.

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  42. Steve Wrathall (283 comments) says:

    There goes the Olympics

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  43. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Tim Shadbolt keeps Invercargill mayoralty
    By EVAN HARDING – The Southland Times
    Last updated 12:18 08/10/2010

    Local Elections 2010
    New Hamilton mayor

    LATEST: Incumbent Tim Shadbolt has won the Invercargill mayoralty race in a landslide victory over challengers Suzanne Prentice and Carl Heenan.

    The local body election results were announced at 1.50pm today, with Mr Shadbolt getting 16,275 votes; well ahead of Ms Prentice with 5311 votes and Mr Heenan with 669 votes.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/local-elections-2010/4215402/Tim-Shadbolt-keeps-Invercargill-mayoralty

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  44. bhudson (4,738 comments) says:

    Bugger

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  45. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    How sad.
    Brown vs Banks was a no win for Auckland.
    Best of luck to Len Brown. Maybe he could rise to the occaison. I hope so.
    I worry we might have got what we deserve in the same way U.S.A. got Obama.
    It took less than 2 years for Obama to be found out.
    The selection of the deputy will be instructive.
    Anyway, he cant be worse than Dick Hubbard was.
    Have you been down the revamped Queen Street recently?
    Thanks Dick.

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  46. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Auckland – Len Brown

    Christchurch – Bob Parker

    Invercargill – Tim Shadbolt

    Nelson – Aldo Miccio

    Ashburton – Angus McKay

    Westland – Maureen Pugh

    Hamilton – Julie Hardaker

    Napier – Barbara Arnott

    Central Hawke’s Bay – Peter Butler

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  47. TCrwdb (242 comments) says:

    Brown vs Banks was a no win for Auckland.

    Amen, but hey at least we can glow in the wonderful feeling that our rates are subsidising free swimming pools for the fatties in south Auckland…

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  48. jaba (2,137 comments) says:

    I keep wanting to laugh at Aucklanders yet again BUT Franklin has been sucked into the so called Super City so the mad mayor is now my fkg Mayor … aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    So his No 2 is .. Bradford or The Clown or Chris Carter or does it have to be a councillor??

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  49. jaba (2,137 comments) says:

    oh well … sorry can’t stop. The Naki v Manawatu game isn’t doing anything for me so I might as well laugh at what will come.
    Lenny B is going to .. walk the talk. Can’t wait to see him do it.
    U2 .. “the wheels are turning but your upside down”

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  50. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    2.21: The 20 people elected to the Auckland Council have been confirmed. They are Michael Goudie, Wayne Walker, George Wood, Ann Hartley, Penny Hulse, Sandra Coney, Mike Lee, Noelene Raffills, Cathy Casey, Christine Fletcher, Cameron Brewer, Richard Northey, Jami-Lee Ross, Sharon Stewart, Penny Webster, Calum Penrose, John Walker, Des Morrison, Arthur Anae, Alf Filipaina.

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  51. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Hahahahahaha so Aucklands got Cooney and Fletcher, Mike lee, Penny Webster, John Walker et al.

    House prices down, emigration up.

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  52. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Oh dear oh dear oh dear. It really is sad.

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  53. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “There goes the Olympics”

    Very droll.. thanks for the smile.

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  54. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Tauranga Mayor Stuart Crosby is to lead the city for the next three years after winning the election in emphatic fashion.

    The progress results came in at about 2.30pm and show Stuart with 16,586 votes. The next best was Murray Guy with 4285 votes.

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  55. ciaron (1,423 comments) says:

    Welcome to Auckland: truth with limits.

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  56. Lazybum (259 comments) says:

    I have already offered Len my wallet, he will make sure tax cuts are redistributed.
    I pick 10% increases yearly for Auckland ratepayers to pay for the social experiment we will be subjected to.

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  57. BlairM (2,321 comments) says:

    Oh God, the humanity…

    Hide completely failed to sell the super city to Aucklanders, especially right-leaning ones. They effectively boycotted the vote as a result, which was stupid of them, because now they are stuck with the Left running things AGAIN. And of the C&R people elected, one of them is Christine Fletcher, who is practically left wing anyway. Glad to see Penny Webster, Noeline Raffills and Cameron Brewer on there to hopefully inject some common sense into proceedings.

    Franklin and Rodney were included precisely because they are chock full of Tories. But none of them voted. Meanwhile you have every PI church in South Auckland completely ignoring that whole “Thou Shalt Not Steal” thing and turning out for Len.

    Congratulations Auckland. You now have the Council you deserve. It’s going to be a long three years.

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  58. Offshore_Kiwi (499 comments) says:

    Lazy (3.37pm) you’re wrong. There will be no increases for “Len’s people”, but watch what he does to those of the North Shore and wealthier regions of Auckland City. If the goal was to make Auckland poorer and lefter, then it has been accomplished. Watch the talented, industrious and wealthy leave in droves.

    Toad (2.17) congratulations. You exemplify beautifully the left and its lies. “I want…better public transport and services and …I am prepared to pay for them.” If you (and the rest of the fools who use public transport) were prepared to pay for it, then ratepayer subsidies wouldn’t be needed. What you really mean is you want better public transport and (in typical leftie fashion) you are happy to force everyone to pay for them. Regardless of whether they ever step onto a bus or a train in their lives, they must be made to pay!

    Auckland should be the engine room for New Zealand’s economy, not the sand in the fucking petrol tank. Auckland, you have the mayor and council you deserve. And I have a good reason to stay in Melbourne for another 3 years. Now, to break that little piece of news to SWMBO…

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  59. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    jaba
    a very small point.
    that is an old saying from a boxing commentator.
    “We know he can talk the talk, but can he walk the walk?”
    Now we are going to find out.
    There is no.
    “walk the talk.”
    Can Lenny, Walk the walk ?
    We know he can ,”Talk the talk.”
    Sorry to correct such a small point
    Probably says more about me than you

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  60. ciaron (1,423 comments) says:

    And Winston thinks the bloke with the dicky ticker, a track record for abusing his credit card and prone to public displays of self-flagellation is somehow a victory for Auckland????

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  61. JeffW (326 comments) says:

    Re Toad at 2:17. It would be good if you and likeminded citizens are prepared to pay for public transport – this means there would be no need for subsidies from ratepayers. I suspect, however, that what you really mean is that unlike many here, you are happy that coercion is used to force others to pay for public transport.

    As for Len Brown, how can the MSM be so forgiving to such a person? I would love to see the votes for him v Banks by ward.

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  62. Offshore_Kiwi (499 comments) says:

    bereal, unfortunately, “walk the talk” has found its way into our nomenclature. In fact in my company, it’s a regular feature of our Wank Words Bingo that we play whenever one of the “Cs” (CEO/COO/CIO) start speaking.

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  63. Offshore_Kiwi (499 comments) says:

    OK so now, who the fuck did he shout at his birthday party at Volare? Lying, thieving, disingenuous POS.

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  64. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “And of the C&R people elected, one of them is Christine Fletcher, who is practically left wing anyway. ”

    So why was she even on the ticket?

    “Franklin and Rodney were included precisely because they are chock full of Tories. But none of them voted.”

    Well, I never heard Banks say anything that appeared as if it was designed to attract the right. Everything I heard him say sounded more like an appeal for left wing votes. If he wanted the right to vote for him, maybe he should have said something to attract their vote.

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  65. Banana Llama (1,043 comments) says:

    So happy to be living in Auckland today, maybe next time National will ask people if they want a change in governance. Oh an i seriously doubt ACT will survive this.

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  66. Gwilly (158 comments) says:

    Paul Henry for Mayor 2013.

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  67. CharlieBrown (1,003 comments) says:

    Haha – living costs in Auckland will no doubt increase faster now with the credit card happy, chest punching Len Brown in power. It really shows the character of most Aucklanders… its scary thinking Auckland is nz’s biggest city.

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  68. Offshore_Kiwi (499 comments) says:

    And that’s part of the problem Red (3.57pm). Plenty on the right just don’t like Banks. Combine an unpopular candidate with a poorly-sold construct (the super city itself) with the New Zealand right’s general apathy, and the right practically handed the election to the left.

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  69. CharlieBrown (1,003 comments) says:

    “with the New Zealand right’s general apathy, and the right practically handed the election to the left.”

    Yip, the left are just that little bit more desperate to spend other peoples money and butt into peoples lives than the right is to stop them.

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  70. Cunningham (843 comments) says:

    This is a decison that will not only come back and bit Auckland in the arse but also the rest of NZ. Thanks Aucklanders for voting in this currupt lunatic! Don’t come crying to the rest of NZ when he racks up mountains of debt for your city.

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  71. Offshore_Kiwi (499 comments) says:

    Sad but true, Charlie. How else would Clark’s corrupt dictatorship have lasted as long as it did?

    New Zealanders generally are in a welfare-induced coma, and they’re more interested in staying there than they are in getting out, getting a job and getting wealthy. That’s why the left finds it so easy to steal and spend other people’s money.

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  72. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    # Offshore_Kiwi (219) Says:
    October 9th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    And that’s part of the problem Red (3.57pm). Plenty on the right just don’t like Banks. Combine an unpopular candidate with a poorly-sold construct (the super city itself) with the New Zealand right’s general apathy, and the right practically handed the election to the left.

    Nothing wrong with the Super City other than the new council but the Nats need to stop trying to please the left. Obvious lesson here.

    Auckland Council Elections

    This weekend we will know the results of the city council elections from across the country. In Auckland there will be substantial changes due to the creation of one large territorial authority covering the whole city. What we are really creating is a state government similar to those which exist in Australia. For example the State Government of South Australia is only marginally larger than the new Auckland city council, covering a population of 1.6 million whereas Auckland has an overall population of $1.4 million. A few areas where Australian state governments have made an impact, and our new elected council should do as well, is in the areas of integrated public transport and ensuring we have adequate roading to service our increasing population. The old community boards will become something similar to the old borough councils predating the 1989 council amalgamations. This is a major reform for Auckland and let’s hope that we see some major improvements over the next three years, without any significant changes to our rates.

    Cairns,Lockie.

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  73. wat dabney (3,725 comments) says:

    Both Banks and Brown make you reach for the sick-bag. It’s a shame one had to win.

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  74. ciaron (1,423 comments) says:

    @ CharlieBrown,
    It’s no longer about stopping the left. the right are more than happy to play with the left and see who can get their hand in deepest.

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  75. noodle (151 comments) says:

    A poisoned chalice .. O what fun when our Mayor Lennie realises that, in the nature of local politics, he will still require authorisation in triplicate from all participants, before he can even break wind in any non-designated area.
    Hopefully, within the next 3 years , a credible candidate will emerge. As an Aucklander, I know I should not be excited about the impending catastrophe …….

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  76. James Stephenson (2,153 comments) says:

    Oh fuck, time to leave town while I’ve still got some money left to buy elsewhere. Still, I suppose you only need to drive on Auckland’s motorways to realize the mental capacity of most inhabitants.

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  77. DJP6-25 (1,376 comments) says:

    [Redbaiter 1.44] Exactly! They deserve nothing but contempt.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  78. BlairM (2,321 comments) says:

    Banksie’s problem was that he is well loved in Auckland City, but he has no constituency outside of there. When people out West, North, or South-East did take notice of him, it was usually for negative reasons. He just did not connect with right leaning voters out beyond the old Auckland City. A great shame.

    Oh well, these commies who swindled their way in this time will almost certainly alienate the electorate very quickly, as the Left council in Auckland City did last time. Brown is Hubbard Part Two.

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  79. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Who has been a mayor of Auckland, in the past, deserving of respect, and why?
    Maybe a debate about that could focus minds for the future.
    Was John Logan Cambell a mayor ? i cant remember. Havent got time to look it up just now.
    What about Sir Dove Meyer Robinson?
    Maybe Len Brown is a man for the times. I dont write him off. Yet. I’m an optimist. i have faith that the majority
    has got it right. Even if i disagree.
    Offshore_Kiwi 3.56
    Your right, i gotta get with the new interpretation of reality.
    Where are the likes of George Grey, John Cambell today ?
    Can a new man stand up from nowhere ?
    How many of our leaders from the past have been socialists ?

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  80. James (1,338 comments) says:

    Im ok with Brown winning.The beddown of the SC is going to cause rucksions and the incumbents will have to take the flak from the people no matter how unfair that will be….good election to lose in my opinion.Next time the right will piss in and will have avoided the dross of the change over phase.

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  81. hinesite (4 comments) says:

    At least Michael Goudie got onto the Auckland Council. Fantastic young guy who has some great ideas, definitely one to watch. From what I know he is pretty right leaning. He should inject some fresh ideas and ruffle some ideas of the old left guard that have be elected.

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  82. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Helen almost suceeded in establishing a critical mass.
    Put them all on welfare, bring in any immigrant.
    They will all vote for us.
    F. the country as long as we can keep power.
    Drag it down to the lowest denominator, so what, as long as we rule.
    In this case, Akl Mayoral election, the people have spoken. Accept it.
    Only trouble is, in this case daljit singh and his mates have prevailed.
    Does that make you sick ?
    It didnt used to be like this.

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  83. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    This is a serious message for conservatives isn’t it.

    What I’ve noticed is there a lot more people formerly apolitical who now aren’t, since Hulun. I think long-term, the lefties are managing to convince large swathes of reef-fish that they’re not insane, after all.

    This is a problem, for those of us who know different.

    I think the govt is going to have to start slamming their mental ideas a lot harder in public, all the time. We have to use every opportunity. No more Mr Nice guy and all of that.

    Key could not do that because it would counter his brand, which is to be as a person the opposite of what Hulun was and is, but the rest of the Cabinet could easily turn feral on the lefties, and they should, right now.

    Otherwise the insanity will continue to grow and spread and eventually strangle the whole country and we’ll all have to go to Australia.

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  84. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    reid
    Well said.
    it used to be a saying, “you cant fool the children of the revolution.”
    Problem is, these days the children are on the dole, or some sort of welfare.
    Turkeys dont vote for an early christmas.
    How do we solve this F.up ?

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  85. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Well if you had voted ACT in the last elections by a few more votes then it would on its way to being addressed for Keu would have had less be nice and play the party options. One more Act MP would have done the job so don’t forget next time for Key will need a lot more Act votes to remain in power.
    As always one could not rely on Maori for they will run with whoever offers the most bribed for their votes. Just keep that in the forefront of your tiny minds.

    And never mind any obstifusion on the subject. Cut to the chase for votes.

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  86. jaba (2,137 comments) says:

    sorry about the wank words .. I hate them with a passion .. I also hear them at work with “going forward” my most hated phrase.
    Mike Lee .. oh no
    the meetings will be sooooo funny. this is a disaster.Our rates went up more than we hoped this year and mad Lenny will kill us.
    Oh .. but the good news is that he will make Auckland the Sth Pacific Capital of the world. Sounds cool BUT who will pay for his visions????
    He owes the PI community (he uses that term with monotionus regularity) BIG TIME.
    All you right leaner’s who a/ didn’t vote b/ voted for Colin Craig .. it’s all your fkg fault

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  87. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Anyone know about Wanganui?

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  88. Shunda barunda (2,978 comments) says:

    Viking2, who’s idea was the supercity again? One more Act MP wil fix it ya say?
    FFS!.

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  89. Banana Llama (1,043 comments) says:

    No i think i am going to stay well away from ACT and National after this fiasco, if they want my vote they can earn it like donny brash did.

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  90. Paulus (2,607 comments) says:

    Well done Auckland, you have got the governence you deserve – Lord Mayor Lennie Brown.
    Glad I no longer live in Auckland.
    Watch the rates hikes.
    Socialists love spending other people’s money.
    Ask Michael Cullen he knows how to do it, and lie about it.

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  91. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Actually it was Helen Clarks and the Labour Govt. and a royal Commission. You should be pleased that Rodney was given the job of sorting out the dross.
    Unfortunately he just couldn’t give the control to the right so you’se get what you voted for.
    The good stuff is that plenty of the council business has been separated from the dross who would waste the money and the likes of Lee who would continue to grow the control of land to the point where the Maori could get it all back for nothing.

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  92. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Viking voting more ACT people in won’t solve the problem. This is because we are on the same side and the discussion is about how to make our whole side bigger, not about how big a particular rump of us is.

    The issue lies in the middle ground, but I personally think we should make an attack on the unions in some way. These are the worker drones of the lefty voter network which is ironic when you think about it. Anyway, we must cripple or destroy them, somehow. Preferably in a diabolically pain-filled way as well, but that’s optional.

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  93. jaba (2,137 comments) says:

    V2 .. Annette Main came from left field to beat Ray and Dot .. wouldn’t know her from a bar of soap but some say she will be ok so lets see.
    I hope so, we maybe returning soon

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  94. John Gibson (295 comments) says:

    Massive swing to the left – good sign for next years general election.

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  95. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    RE JeffW (45) @3:55: “Re Toad at 2:17. It would be good if you and likeminded citizens are prepared to pay for public transport – this means there would be no need for subsidies from ratepayers. I suspect, however, that what you really mean is that unlike many here, you are happy that coercion is used to force others to pay for public transport.”

    Excuse me but the Right Socialised Roads over 60 years ago! At lest the payment of them. Right wingers tend to conveniently forget that OUR RATES SUBSIDISE the private motorists use of roads from 40-60%. The remainder coming from user pays. On top of that the national highways received a top up of $2.5 billion from general taxation in 2009.

    Your rates subsidise roads by 10 times the amount spent on public transport! So do a little research before making such uneducated and uninformed comments.

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  96. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    “Massive swing to the left – good sign for next years general election.”

    You’ve unleashed the hounds of hell, John.

    I hope you’re happy.

    Personally, my hope is they don’t turn out to be merely annoying yappy little Spaniels. I’m hoping for nay expecting Irish Wolfhounds, Kooikerhondje Bloodhounds (for tracking unionists), Large Munsterlander Border Collies (because everyone likes Lassie), Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Giant Schnauzer St Bernards (to bring us refreshments in the field), Tibetan Mastiffs and one or two Hungarian Pulis.

    Don’t expect me to take responsibility either, it’s your fault for being lefties in the first place.

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  97. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Ratepayers in the BOP subsidize the buses to the tune of 0.80 cents per dollar of income granted to Tainui Bus Company to do a job a locally owned companyused to do and spent a whole lot of years building up.
    Its (the money), is stolen from EBOP who in turn steal it from earnings of the Port Company and all ratepayers.
    The good thing about this election is that the fraudulent ex stockbroker, who cannot pay his bills, that was responsible for the great spend up on bus fares has been dumped from the EBOP Council.
    So that’s one down.

    P.S. Thats a great fleet of yellow buses that roam around the town carrying almost no one. Large buses that are to big for the smaller shopping centers and with about 90% underutilization. Socialist economics at work.

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  98. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    “My name’s Len Brown / you’re in my town / I’ve got it going down / hnnnnnnnnnnnng my heart”

    Only a matter of time before he appoints Sue Bradford to some position of influence.

    You stupid fucking bastards.

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  99. Viking2 (11,413 comments) says:

    Kerry Prendergast wins by a whisker
    The Dominion Post
    Last updated 19:14 09/10/2010

    Kerry Prendergast has retained the Wellington mayoralty with a majority of only 40 votes but the result could be overturned once special votes are counted.

    Ms Prendergast leads rival Celia Wade-Brown by 24,468 votes to 24,428.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/local-elections-2010/4215814/Kerry-Prendergast-wins-by-a-whisker

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  100. Deep Throat (28 comments) says:

    MickeySavage gets voted in to make decisions on behalf of the Westies. FFS who would want a bile spouting blog bigot like that fool representing you with some of the shit he’s spouted on the blogs over the years.

    FFS A least vote in an open an honest Leftie not that fucktard.

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  101. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Yeah, more fucking rates plunged into fucking bus lanes and train lines to shitty parts of Souf Auckland Bro. Gotta gets da moneyz in fo’ da votes yo.

    MickeySavage gets voted in to make decisions on behalf of the Westies.

    BWAHAHAHAAHAH. This shit town is even more fucked than I thought.

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  102. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    One thing Len should be required to do is publish an annual report card, on his financial performance. This should be a statutory requirement for every local and regional council. Wouldn’t that be good.

    That way, we could claim it’s for transparency, which it clearly is.

    We could claim it’s for honesty, which it clearly is.

    We could design it to show real hard facts, where we want them to be shown, which we can clearly do.

    I suspect Len would LIKE to publish an annual report card, but he’d make it full of touchy-feely bullshit and fuck that.

    On the hypothesis that borrow and spend will otherwise be Len’s strategy in order to keep the rates down. He can’t do it nearly so much with this over his head, can he.

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  103. ciaron (1,423 comments) says:

    FFS A least vote in an open an honest Leftie

    Name one.

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  104. Right of way is Way of Right (1,121 comments) says:

    This is a terrible, terrible outcome. With the amount of Labour and Union cash behind him, this election was bought, pure and simple. However, as things go horribly, horribly wrong, as I have no doubt they will, I can see this backfiring terribly on Labour at the next General Election.

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  105. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    As Right of way said, it’s a good opportunity to make Lennie the face of Labour.

    “Comical Len Brown sent Auckland’s rates up 50% in a year. Is that what you really want? Party vote National.”

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  106. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “MickeySavage gets voted in to make decisions on behalf of the Westies.”

    I always thought that was some 14 year old school kid.

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  107. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    Let the puke-fest continue, NACToids.

    Go Greg (mickysavage), although I don’t always appreciate your slavish devotion to Labour when the Greens offer something better.

    Anyway, good to see you back on local government as a local board member. Go well, and wisely.

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  108. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @ Redbaiter 8:18 pm

    I always thought that was some 14 year old school kid.

    No, that is Paul Henry.

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  109. jaba (2,137 comments) says:

    Brown is indebted to people who will want pay back .. oh dear

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  110. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    We can learn a few tips from the left, actually.

    Len Brown: Not My Mayor.

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  111. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    FFS A least vote in an open an honest Leftie.

    Name one.

    Keith Locke.

    Seriously.

    He believes sincerely what he says. I would trust him with my life.

    Unless the conservatives had done something particularly appalling that particular day.

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  112. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I would trust him with my life.”

    He promised to run naked, but didn’t.

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  113. James Stephenson (2,153 comments) says:

    Len Brown: Not My Mayor.

    Yeah, reckon there might be a bit of dosh in the bumper sticker business over the next few years.

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  114. JeffW (326 comments) says:

    Kane @ 6:33, thanks for the lecture. My understanding is that petrol taxes go the general fund to a greater extent than government expenditure goes on roads. So road users subsidise welfare (as does every economic activity in the country).

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  115. ciaron (1,423 comments) says:

    Aside from the fact he’s bat shit crazy, He’s not running for local body, has snout in bigger trough.

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  116. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    “He promised to run naked, but didn’t.”

    Yes but he actually publicly resolved his own foolishness in the most dignified way possible given he is an MP and that in my book was good enough.

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  117. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Come to think of it, it was probably John Banks’ handling of the bullshit bus lanes earlier this year that contributed the most to his loss.

    Hear that, Brownie? Bus lanes are a concept that will go down in history alongside Nazi racial theory. Of course, he’ll make Great South Road one big bus lane.

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  118. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    Okay, here’s my analysis on the Auckland Council election:

    Of the 20 Councilors, there are two Greens, Cathy Casey and Wayne Walker.

    Penny Hulse, Sandra Coney and Michael Goudie are Green-friendly, although not party members.

    Mike Lee and Richard Northey are both endorsed by City Vision, a Labour-Green-Community Independent coalition.

    Alf Filipaina is Labour endorsed, and Ann Hartley is a former Labour MP.

    Sir John Walker stood as an independent and has usually taken a progressive social and environmental position as a Manukau City Councilor.

    Arthur Anae is a former National MP, but fell out seriously with National after discovering he was somewhat to the left of them. Likewise Christine Fletcher, who is a former National MP and former Auckland City Mayor and a Citizens & Ratepayers endorsed Councilor, but will be good on environmental and human rights issues (if the C&R block vote allows her to, which I suspect they will, given their annihilation in the election, because if they don’t she will likely break ranks).

    Sharon Stewart is an independent who is pro-environment and pro-public transport and has defeated ACT-aligned sitting Manukau City Councilor Dick Quax in the Howick ward.

    Cameron Brewer is economically right, but socially liberal. Probably the best option you could get from the wealthiest part of Auckland, and as an independent he defeated the sitting Auckland City C&R (ie NACT) Councilor Doug Armstrong.

    Calum Penrose is a law and order hard-liner and former Mayor of Papakura, but I don’t know much more about him.

    Des Morrison, George Wood, Jami-Lee Ross and Noelene Raffills (all C&R) are hard right, as is former ACT MP Penny Webster, although she may be a bit more socially liberal than these C&R ones.

    The really inspiring thing about this Council is that they are not going to be privatising anything and will endeavour to make progress on public transport in Auckland.

    The other inspiring thing is that Rodney Hide is still likely on his haunches in the smallest room talking to Huey and Ralph on the big white telephone.

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  119. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    and will endeavour to make progress on public transport in Auckland.

    MORE FUCKING BUS LANES HURRAY HURRAY HURRAY

    Brownie wants to make Auckland the world’s most liveable city. Hah! After I quit the place in 2011 you couldn’t pay me to live in fucking Auckland.

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  120. ciaron (1,423 comments) says:

    Billy Connolly fan?

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  121. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    If Mickysavage ( two strikes now, a lawyer and elected creature ) has landed on the public tit he may disappear from here – a positive

    Toad , Luc – stand for office get elected disappear from here – more positives.

    Its not all bad then is it.

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  122. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    …(all C&R) are hard right, as is former ACT MP Penny Webster, although she may be a bit more socially liberal than these C&R ones. The really inspiring thing about this Council is that they are not going to be privatising anything and will endeavour to make progress on public transport in Auckland.

    You make it sound sinister. Duh. Efficiency vs profligacy is the basic equation Toad and that has an objective not a subjective answer.

    The other inspiring thing is that Rodney Hide is still likely on his haunches in the smallest room talking to Huey and Ralph on the big white telephone.

    If I were Rodney right now, I’d be sitting in some sort of national command post, monitoring the situation, “somewhere in Waiouru.” I think that’s more likely the case than the big white telephone scenario, Toad.

    I mean, really.

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  123. bhudson (4,738 comments) says:

    John Gibson,

    A swing to the left? On what basis do you make that (rational) assertion?

    A swing either way would have required an incumbency which didn’t exist. What we have seen is the strong left support, particularly of South Auckland, take the Super City Mayoralty. That is democracy in action and I, for one, congratulate Brown, his campaign and the Left on what was clearly a great job.

    But there was no swing to claim. It is a 1-0 result after game 1. The result at the next election will point to a swing either way.

    The results by ward will be interesting if/when released. I wonder perhaps if Banks’ perceived divisiveness might have led to some moderates preferring anyone but Banks. In any case, the Left mobilised support & voters in South Auckland just as they did 2005 – and well done to them for achieving that. A tough challenge for the right to overcome next time.

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  124. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Let’s see what Len “Twat” Brown’s pamphlet has to say.

    “Len will open the books so everyone can see how their rates are being spent” (LOL)

    “Len is open and honest about his policies for a better Auckland” (LOFUCKINGL)

    “Len has delivered the lowest average rates in the Auckland region without huge borrowings” (derp)

    “Len believes in educating motorists to respect bus lanes to keep the city moving” (oooh, educate, how about you fuck off you rapping clown)

    Ho fucking ho. Can’t wait.

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  125. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    “But there was no swing to claim.”

    Yes, there is, to the extent Auckland controls the election of Parliament.

    Which is, a lot.

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  126. bhudson (4,738 comments) says:

    reid,

    There is not yet any clear evidence to say that x more people voted left in this local body election than voted left in the last general election.

    There is not yet any clear comparison to make such a statement. If it is not the case then there is no swing.

    I certainly hope there wasn’t

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  127. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    b, it’s the machinery they’ve used for this, which will from now on switch into medium then into high gear, coming into the Rugby World Cup.

    This was a practice, for that.

    Auckland elects the govt. You cannot ignore it because of the Party Vote concentration.

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  128. hinesite (4 comments) says:

    @toad

    “Penny Hulse, Sandra Coney and Michael Goudie are Green-friendly, although not party members.”

    I can assure you that Michael Goudie might be Green-friendly but definitely has a party preference. A better analysis of him would be to say he is closer to Cameron Brewer, but only in the ideological sense.

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  129. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @bhudson 9:12 pm

    A swing either way would have required an incumbency which didn’t exist. … But there was no swing to claim. …The results by ward will be interesting if/when released.

    Let’s just look at the Albany ward for a moment. This is (largely) the area that has elected Murray McCully to Parliament for aeons. But for the Auckland Council election it elects a Green Party member (Wayne Walker) and an environmental activist (Michael Goudie).

    Go figure!

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  130. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Green scum.

    Eco-totalitarian excrement.

    Bah.

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  131. rakuraku (162 comments) says:

    What a fantastic result Auckland can have a united city under a Mayor who shows some sensitivity, is well educated and has some human values.

    Bad luck to John Key’s an Rodney Hide’s Puppet.

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  132. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @ hinesite 9:43 pm

    I can assure you that Michael Goudie might be Green-friendly but definitely has a party preference. A better analysis of him would be to say he is closer to Cameron Brewer, but only in the ideological sense.

    And Cameron Brewer is a lot better than the Crusty and Rusty Shits and Rats, and I’m very happy Brewer has been elected. Michael Goudie, like Brewer, is pro-business. The things some of you guys on the right don’t get is that the Greens are pro-business too – as long as business doesn’t stuff up the environment or exploit its employees for short-term gain.

    I, and I’m sure most other Green supporters, always try to look at what will be the best policy for the next 300 years, not just the next 3 years (until the next election).

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  133. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    John Gibson.
    how do you feel your, “shirt lifting” crowd fared these elections.
    Cant get, shirt lifting?
    If its not in your reference book let me know and I’ll spell it out 4 u
    No probleemo.

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  134. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @Hurf Durf (9:48 pm

    Green scum. Eco-totalitarian excrement.

    A wee bit upset are we, HD? Would you like a cuddle?

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  135. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Congestion charge for Central Auckland.

    You heard it here first.

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  136. John Gibson (295 comments) says:

    Hurf Durf – we will need a congestion charge, additional parking levies, an increase to the Auckland petrol tax, increase in parking enforcement fine collection, and road tolls to help pay for the roading and public transport upgrades.

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  137. John Gibson (295 comments) says:

    bereal – shirt lifting ? LOL

    So your point is ?

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  138. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    An 80% tax on Green Party voters would serve just as well, without hassling the people who JUST WANT TO GET ON WITH THINGS.

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  139. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    The things some of you guys on the right don’t get is that the Greens are pro-business too – as long as business doesn’t stuff up the environment or exploit its employees for short-term gain.

    Yes this is in fact the issue, toad.

    You see, we don’t care. Our hearts don’t bleed.

    A smart way to do this is to get farmers themselves to set the green targets. That would actually achieve some measurable valuable data. But strangely I’ve never heard the greens talk about this obvious strategy. Of course I’ve always heard they’re completely mental, so I’m just waiting to see what happens next, re: you guys.

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  140. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    The things some of you guys on the right don’t get is that the Greens are pro-business too

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Laugh of the night, thanks frogboy.

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  141. RRM (9,834 comments) says:

    Sucks to be you if you were hoping Hide would re-shape Auckland into a right-wing tax dodger’s paradise.

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  142. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @ Hurf Durf 10:47 pm

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    Laugh of the night, thanks frogboy

    .

    Liquid laugh for you HD!

    Vomit!!! Copiously!

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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  143. Nichlemn (63 comments) says:

    I’d be interested in knowing the results by former city (i.e. did Banks win the old Auckland City?)

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  144. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Every time I think of the Greens I chunder.

    Doesn’t do well for my choloric intake.

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  145. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Every time I think of the Greens I chunder.

    Doesn’t do well for my choloric intake.

    Choloric???

    Do you mean…

    colonic?

    Surely you do…

    you shirtlifter, you!

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  146. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Yeah, I love being bummed, I do.

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  147. hinesite (4 comments) says:

    @Toad

    “I, and I’m sure most other Green supporters, always try to look at what will be the best policy for the next 300 years, not just the next 3 years (until the next election).”

    The realistic approach that “some of you guys on the right” (which by the way you just grouped me into, without any knowledge of my preference) take is that policy for the next 300 years is not viable economically or socially. The needs of a nation and in this case a city, change rapidly. Hence why most people look to what is best for the next 3 years, if not slightly more; say 10-15 years. As people realise that in 3 years time they will have to re-elected another group, with the chances being that group will have different aspirations to those who have just been elected.

    Unless by chance you have a crystal ball that you can predict our future? Then I am sure having in mind the best policy for the next 300 years will work.

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  148. James (1,338 comments) says:

    The Super city was a National/Labour dream…not so ACT…so if you voted Nat/Lab then YOU caused it to happen….Rodney was only the Minister National appointed to the job to make it happen….and no one else would have done a better job.At least the right people were appointed to the really important positions like Ford etc….Browns just a figure head.

    Bank’s heart wasn’t in it…it was with his son over the Webster incident. Brown bought votes from South Auckland with the money of the rest of Auckland…just normal lefty steal and bribe. Whaleoils going to ride dirty Lens arse about that credit card nondisclosure till he cracks and either fess’s up or keels over with that dicky ticker.

    Next time I want a real right/libertarian standing who will campaign to reduce rates,rid the people of the public liabilities that are bleeding us dry,scrap the dead dog of public transport and allow everyone an “opt out” option on their rates so we aren’t forced to fund lefty wankery like libraries,pools,parks,sports,galleries,museams etc etc….a user pays utopia.

    I wont hold my breath….

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  149. Mark (1,480 comments) says:

    This appears to be a fairly solid move to the left by the big urban areas. The Auckland result must be a huge concern for Key and National.

    The next polls will be interesting to see if key has suffered any fall out from his poor handling of the Henry debacle.

    The other big concern for Key will be the timing of the enxt election. Before or after the RWC. Its a big decision for a leader who does’t like making them

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  150. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    JeffW @ 8:41 pm ” thanks for the lecture. My understanding is that petrol taxes go the general fund to a greater extent than government expenditure goes on roads. So road users subsidise welfare (as does every economic activity in the country).”

    Not since 2008, When the then Labour Government mandated 100% of Fuel taxes, RUC’s and other road user charges to go into TRANSPORTATION!

    The Whig Government has maintained this, however with one change – NZTA – were mandated to direct most of these available funds to ROAD transport. This is the same NZTA who in 2009 needed a $2.5 billion top up from general taxation for additional highway construction. This is also the same NZTA who released a study early 2010 showing that for every dollar spent on public transport they save $4.40 on Private transport. Check out http://www.nzta.govt.nz/ and do some research.

    Right, centrist or left, we all benefit by increased public transport. It free’s up the roads for those of us who need to use them. So Len’s primary goal of building a transit city should be welcomed by us all.

    So if your road user charges aren’t enough to pay for the highways, that means there is nothing left over for local roads. Who pays for them. THE RATE PAYERS! So as the minister of trucking dreams up spending $2 billion on his holiday highway, our rates are going to take an even bigger hit just up keeping our local roads.

    PS Congestion charging – bloody good idea. USER PAYS. Come on people, it’s just so right wing! Or do you want to dive under your SOCIALIST BLANKET for comfort. Or is there hypocrisy at work here. Private use of the roads, but socialise the cost. Remember your fuel taxes, RUC’s have only paid 40-60% of these roads, the rest has been… that dirty socialist word again, SUBSIDISED by rate payers.

    YES roads are SUBSIDISED. They get 10 x more SUBSIDY than buses, trains, of ferries!

    From http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/documents/annualreport/report2009/docs/03parttwo_2.pdf 2008/2009
    That council spent $106m on roads and $18m on Public Transport. How much did they earn from each mode? $10m private roads and $4m from PT. Interesting mathematics but it looks like PT cost the rate payers only $14m vs Roads $96m.

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  151. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Right, centrist or left, we all benefit by increased public transport.”

    Spoken like a true statist who puts no value on personal freedom. Go away. Don’t tell me what is good for me. Don’t tell me what I need. I will decide for myself. I suggest you take yourself and your ideas to Nth Korea. They’re much more used to busybodies like you running their lives for them, and you will fit right in.

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  152. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    ^^ Fine. Then you can pay the true cost of your “personal freedoms”. Any and everything you want or need you can pay the true cost of. Bring on USER Pays.

    No more free car parking (costs generally absorbed in your grocery/rates bill). No more police coverage or protection. No more MAF or Customs. No more Navy protecting our fishery commercial rights. No more education for all. No more parks to relax at or clean beaches to swim at. Oh Gods the list just drags on. These are all the things we take for granted in our SOCIALISED Society.

    Dah, the we all benefit by increased public transport, if you read on, specifies this FREES up the roads (from congestion) for the use and enjoyment of the rest of us. But hay, your so blinded by your Neo Con ideology you must truly enjoy you FREEDOM of an hour or TWO stuck in congested traffic!

    Oh the $$$$ wasted.

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  153. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Fine. Then you can pay the true cost of your “personal freedoms”. ”

    (Oh yeah, you care so much about “$$$$ wasted” don’t you?)

    No problem. Key word of course being “true”, not some self serving analysis prepared by some shiny arsed bureaucrat whose primary purpose is to expand his empire or make himself look indispensable.

    Should “true” cost involve paying ridiculous salaries and pensions to legions of unproductive administrators and managers employed by central and local government? I don’t think so.

    And as for the rest of your stuff.. just boring crazy shit. That’s always the problem when trying to reason with communists. Their minds are so gummed up by doctrine they need a liberal application of turps over a decade or two before they can ever start thinking clearly and rationally.

    Here you are suddenly ranting about Police and Navy and Customs. For fuck’s sake. What a loon. Y’know I could respond to that rubbish, but what I thought we were discussing here was public transport being forced down our throats because some pack of self serving arseholes somewhere think its a good idea. They want to steal my money to pay for it, because even though its a “good idea”, nobody will put money into it voluntarily. How does that work?

    You want to force people to use public transport when they don’t want it. You want to force people to pay for it when they’d rather spend the money THEY EARNED on something else. You want to force people to pay for it even though they will not use it.

    You talk about user pays but what you’re really talking about is force. That’s why I said you need to export yourself to Nth Korea. You might call it socialism. I call it neo-fascism.

    Jesus, y’know what really breaks my balls on public transport? That I would have to sit next to some stinking farting foul breathed germ spreading fat arsed lazy fascist like you. Give me the air conditioned relaxing interior of my seven series any day. And at any price providing it doesn’t include a pay off to government mafia and fascists.

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  154. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    No ones suggesting forcing anyone onto anything. Len Brown is proposing giving people a C H O I C E. It’s another MODE of transport that anybody can use or not use, but it is another CHOICE. You come across as someone who might appreciate having the roads nice and clear to really open up your 7 Series, but if you prefer the status quo, then you can enjoy hours of your plush air conditioning whilst cruising at a snails pace.

    Don’t you get it? An efficient public transport system will clear the roads for you personal freedom. 20 lanes of free way will only induce even more congestion.

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  155. rakuraku (162 comments) says:

    Hey Red you should be a consultant in John Key’s Foreign Policy Team.

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  156. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Don’t you get it?”

    You are the one who does not get it. Here’s what you don’t get. There are a hundred reasons why public transport is not the solution you claim it to be. There are a hundred reasons (practical and moral) why government should not be invested in public transport. There are a hundred reasons why the rosy outcomes you predict will not eventuate.

    There are a hundred reasons why we do not need planners. There are a hundred reasons why every perceived problem cannot be solved by an army of self serving bureaucrats. There are a hundred reasons why perceived problems cannot be solved by increased regulations and taxation. There are a hundred reasons why citizens should not be forced to live in high density housing.

    Once you’ve educated yourself about all of those reasons, then you might get it.

    The main reason of all though is that there is never any good to come of market distortions by government. The negatives always outweigh the positives. You won’t ever admit this because your head is full of socialist hogwash but anyone who knows anything of economics and history knows this is as true as the fact that water will never run up hill.

    Look at the Soviet Union. Full of your kind. Planners, do gooders, administrators, and it failed completely. Made the Russian people paupers. Fuck off before you ruin our society and civilisation like you did theirs.

    There are a hundred reasons why the problem will sort itself out. Government is always the biggest part of any problem. Never the solution.

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  157. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Socialists just never get it.
    While we have breath in our bodies and petrol in our tanks we will never give in to their mantras and catch the bus or train. It’s just too icky to be crammed into a metal tube full of coughing, farting humanity.
    I gave up flying when you couldn’t open the window to throw out your butt anymore.

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  158. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    You won’t ever admit this because your head is full of socialist hogwash but anyone who knows anything of economics and history knows this is as true as the fact that water will never run up hill.

    There may be a hundred ways water will go up. It will flow up uphill if it has enough energy. It comes up pipes out of the ground, at my house anyway. And it will rise out of the sea into the clouds. But I guess it doesn’t run up like your imagination.

    There may be a hundred ideals behind a private enterprise utopia, but there will also be a hundred reasons why it has never worked in practice in the modern world, the same as communism doesn’t work. No reasonably functioning country operates without significant local and national governments. There are problems when they get to big and do too much, but there is no sign of any practical alternative except in thinly scattered imaginations.

    Public transport snobbery is something different, it may be difficult to convert a lot of Aucklanders, who seem happier gridlocked in their private automobubbles, where they have time to ponder well removed from the real world. They can even listen to Michael Laws while they do it.

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  159. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “It will flow up uphill if it has enough energy.”

    Go away George. Your disgusting presence on this blog always degrades discussion to the level of complete idiocy and that statement is a perfect example of how .

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  160. bhudson (4,738 comments) says:

    kane007,

    Your proposition that the use of ratepayers money to help fund local roads is to the detriment of the ratepayers is errant nonsense. The vast majority of ratepayers are users of private transportation and therefore beneficiaries of the roads that their rates have helped to fund. (This includes cyclists too, which I why I have not limited it to motorised transportation.)

    Public transportation, while available for all to use, is used by a smaller percentage of the population – exercising their choice.

    To divert a greater percentage of rates (including increasing rates) to pay for a service that a smaller group wish to use is unfair on those who do not wish to use it. It is a discriminatory practise which favours a small group of users ahead of the majority – it penalises a group who exercise their choice differently (so it also undermines their right of choice against others’.)

    To claim that public transportation frees up the roads for other users is simply allowing textbook theory to take precedence over simple observable fact. Have you never had to follow buses before? (This is particularly an issue in Wellington with our narrow roads, but the principle holds elsewhere – those behemoths cause congestion, particularly in the peak hours when there are so many of them converging on the same bus stops.)

    To introduce, or raise, a regional fuel tax to have private transport users subsidise bus & train users is simply legislated theft.

    It should also be pointed out that the public transport subsisidsation (be it rates or fuel tax) does not go to fund the shared infrastructure (i.e. roads), but to pay for running the service (operational & maintenance costs) that only a few wish to use. So what we have is a genuine case where those who do not use a service are having to pay the costs so that others can.

    If people wish to use public transport they should be happy to pay the full costs for doing so. 

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  161. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    If a hundred reasons why we shouldn’t have PT, then what should we have instead? What do you propose?

    How many bureaucrats will be needed to fulfill your dream? Dare I also point out the numbers of planners and bureaucrats that have been used for motorways and roads.

    So far all I am seeing is opinion. No facts supporting anything resembling a logical argument. I do agree that the Soviet Union was a complete Cluster Fuck, over taken by self serving morons.

    Lets look at economics and history. I will use facts however, and very recent ones for anyone born yesterday. The 2007 Financial crises was 100% the fault of your much vaunted deregulation. Yep great example of what can go wrong when stupid big business thinks they can run things their way. Greed and corruption. Oh, and who saved their sorry arses? How many small and medium sized companies went under.

    And by the way, these are the same clowns that lots of people think can run our country.

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  162. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I will use facts however, and very recent ones for anyone born yesterday. The 2007 Financial crises was 100% the fault of your much vaunted deregulation.”

    This is not a fact. It is a complete and utter lie, and that you would make such an absurb claim shows that the opinion I expressed in my first response to you was correct. You care not one jot for liberty. Worse you seek to attack and destroy it by means of lies and deceit.

    That it is always such as you who are to be found advocating for public transport is one of the best reasons to reject it.

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  163. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    So if according to you socialism doesn’t work and capitalism doesn’t work what is the answer kane?

    Should we just kiss our arses goodbye? Or go to hell on a publicly-owned handcart?

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  164. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    You can kiss your arse if you like Johnboy, but I’m happy to try for the best balance – that is theoretically what all democratic governments try and do while battling against special interest groups and those with a special interest in their own degree of power.

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  165. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    bhudson “To claim that public transportation frees up the roads for other users is simply allowing textbook theory to take precedence over simple observable fact.”
    Sorry this is your anecdotal evidence not actual measured data. In July 2010, ARTA presented to the NZTA the following presentation http://transportblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Auckland-Public-Transport-Strategy.pdf – check it out. But of most relevance to our debate is the bottom graph on page 6.

    This shows the percentage of people going either by car or bus over the harbour bridge into the CBD during the morning peak hour. Since 2005 it looks like we’ve gone from having around a quarter of person trips over the bridge being by bus (5000 out of 20,000) to having over a third (9000 out of 25,000) of the trips being by bus in 2010. But perhaps most critically, what this has enabled is simply more people than ever before to get across the bridge at peak times. What is the benefit to Auckland’s economy of being able to get 25,000 people across the Harbour Bridge at peak times as opposed to 20,000? I don’t know – but I imagine it could be significant.

    Also if you look closely you will see a decline in private car users over this time, while PT increases. Unfortunately this data discredits the argument of increasing traffic volumes requiring we have another harbour crossing. Instead we should use the argument of strategic security.

    Also Johnboy – You need to read some of the US Defence Department Media releases on PEAK OIL. Your greasy stuff wont have long to go, unless you nuke China, India, and all of South America. But the nuclear fallout and winter will need you to climb back into your metal tube you so detest.

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  166. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    “battling against special interest groups and those with a special interest in their own degree of power.”

    As always you are quite right Petty. You will be no doubt be pleased to see that the iniquitous compulsory membership of the students union is about to be terminated. :)

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  167. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    “Also Johnboy – You need to read some of the US Defence Department Media releases on PEAK OIL. Your greasy stuff wont have long to go, unless you nuke China, India, and all of South America. But the nuclear fallout and winter will need you to climb back into your metal tube you so detest.”

    Ahh! the truth outs kane.

    You are one of those dreamy, greenie tossers who have no faith in the triumph of humankind over their natural environment.

    You get in the people tube. I will continue to gas up my V8 and lay a few tracks around the roads that I am paying for. :)

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  168. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    Johnboy, you shant put words in my mouth. I never said capitalism nor socialism doesn’t work. I did say the Soviet Experiment was FUBAR.
    Red, I care deeply for liberty. I will be one of the first to take up an AK47 if our government took away my democracy. I dream of the day NZ becomes a Republic and thus a full democracy.

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  169. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    “I will be one of the first to take up an AK47 ”

    God kane you give yourself away with every stupid comment you make.

    An M16 man, that is the weapon of the freedom loving people of the world not a bloody commie AK47.

    Fool!

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  170. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    But AK47’s are so much cheaper, more plenty full and easier to come by. I was thinking of the cost, FOOL!

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  171. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Typical commie. They never appreciate quality. :)

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  172. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    AK47 0.47 USD in North Africa vs 2000 USD in the US with the latest M4 system.

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  173. bhudson (4,738 comments) says:

    kane007,

    Thank you for ignoring the following sentence after taking the selective quote. Of course there will be an improvement in congestion if you i) have multi-laned roads and ii) reserve one or more of them for buses. My point was that buses create just as much congestion in peak hours in narrow streets (which is a curse for Wellington and, harbour bridge notwithstanding, not something that Auckland is completely immune from either.) That is observable fact – spend a couple of days in Wellington city and surrounds and you will observe. [Also the statistics on your page 6 also show that private vehicle crossings represented 40% of the increase in volumes - even with the reserved bus lane, you still have a long way to go to actually reduce congestion on the road.]

    We are even more stupid here in that we subsidise trolley buses so that they can break down and hold up not only every car behind them, but also every other bus on the same line. All the while consuming a resource we are told has real supply constraints – therefore also helping to keep our power price up too!

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  174. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    Ok, so what would happen in Wellington if all those bus patrons were to instead get behind the wheel of a single occupancy motor car?

    What reserved bus lane on the Auckland Harbour Bridge? Or am I miss reading this?

    PT is just offering another mode of transport that without it congestion would be far worse.

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  175. Offshore_Kiwi (499 comments) says:

    RedB, you made a comment at your and KG’s place the other day … circling the drain. I think this comments thread proves the truth of that comment.

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  176. bhudson (4,738 comments) says:

    kane007,

    I think no one here is saying we shouldn’t have any PT. What is common to views opposing yours is that the cost of PT should be borne by its users. There would probably be less howling if the subsidies that exist today were held as is and not increased, but some/many are not happy with (in effect) paying even more to subsidise services that only a comparative few want to use.

    I am not saying ‘get rid of the buses’. I am happy for the service to continue – I actually use it. But not at the expense of non-users.

    Perhaps a better solution would be to removed the disincentives to providing a more cost effective service [that's a Wellington example - the regional council funding doesn't really incent better cost management by the provider.] That would help to keep costs down – minimising price increases for users and not requiring non-users to pay more in subsidies.

    [The comment about bus lane was somewhat speculative - I know there is a lane out of Takapuna heading south, but I was just assuming that is continued all the way over the bridge (which the photo seemed to support) - Does it not?]

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  177. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    “I think no one here is saying we shouldn’t have any PT. …”

    There’s always one…

    Redbaiter at 1:36 pm
    There are a hundred reasons why public transport is not the solution you claim it to be. There are a hundred reasons (practical and moral) why government should not be invested in public transport.

    There are a hundred reasons why the problem will sort itself out. Government is always the biggest part of any problem. Never the solution.

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  178. kane007 (11 comments) says:

    Bhudson, the northern busway is a 2 lane grade separate right of way from Mairangi Bay to just after Onewa Rd, basically the foot of the bridge southbound. Starts at Takepuna Northbound.

    Even the NZTA releases the cost effectiveness of investing in PT – every $1 spent on it saves motorist $4.40.

    Len Brown has spoken also of making the cities bus network more efficient. The best way to do this is to utilise that most hated of right wing words – regulation. Currently the private bus companies overload the most profitable routes and savage the least profitable. Thus instances of 8 or 9 buses queued up with only a hand full of passengers on a few. They are largely creaming the subsidy paid to them. What is proposed is a rationalisation and a complete networking of bus routes.

    Historically all roads led to Rome (Auckland in this case). But employment patterns have changed markedly since the original tram network of the 1950’s and now I think less than 20% of employment is based in Auckland’s CBD. Yet most buses still make their way here. Therefore a real pain for some one wanting to get from home in Glendene to work in Onehunga. Networking will change the route patterns to reflect these changes so way more cross isthmus routes. Rationalisation can get rid of duplicate routes, stops, unnecessary competition with rail.

    Whether one uses it or not, increasing the investment in PT does benefit us all. I just can’t get away from the economics of it as spelt out by the NZTA’s $4.40 from every $1.00.

    If it is the common view of most here that users of public transport should pay the fall cost, then they should not be adverse to paying the fall cost of using the roads, and paying for all car parks. After all a car park is still a plot of land that is affected by land rents too. Direct costs AND the indirect costs (Health/social/pollution etc),

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  179. bhudson (4,738 comments) says:

    kane007,

    Down here we do pay for all the car parks that matter. Even many of our central residential streets have coupon parking and resident parking zones (which the residents pay.) Some of us are lucky enough to live in suburbs to have curbside parking at ‘no additional cost.’

    We all pay for them through rates in any case. As my earlier comments noted, the vast majority of rate payer use private transportation, so the payment or subsidisation for roading and parking are instance where the costs are being taken from the group benefiting from the service/facility.

    It would seem that you have a similar problem with the current funding system not incenting the private provider of PT to manage the cost, scheduling and service as effectively as it could be. That would be a far better place to start than to introduce new or greater levies on all.

    I haven’t looked at the NZTA data. I will speculate that at that ratio there are a number of ‘assumed/inferred’ and other ‘soft’ benefits in the number. If it was, in fact, the case, more people would be using the services available today and more investment would have been made to date – both public and private.

    I only have to also look at our Wellington metro train system as evidence on how poorly public transport investment has been managed in the past and how inefficient and unreliable the service remains today.

    As with a commercial organisation – If you want to win the customers, you have to provide both a service they want and a service that is of high quality (including reliable.) Simply poring more money from forms of taxation does not fix the problem if the money and/or service is poorly managed (which is the experience to date.)

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  180. libertyscott (359 comments) says:

    The Nat-ACT government has failed miserably in Auckland.

    It took Labour’s Royal Commission and implemented almost all of its recommendations. It created the biggest local authority in Australasia with an “empowered” Mayor.
    It took Sandra Lee’s Local Government Act 2002 and its “powers of general competence” (which both parties opposed) and kept it.

    In effect the only difference from Labour being in power is that there aren’t Maori seats.

    All those who believe in less local government and more free market principles, private property rights and ensuring local government doesn’t inexorably grow should feel completely ripped off by this government.

    Len Brown’s embrace of the cargo cult of multi-billion dollar urban rail projects, which aren’t remotely financially viable, are economically highly dubious and will do nothing to relieve congestion says it all. The Mayor of Auckland is now a position for a think big glory seeking power junkie (oh and John Banks would have been little better).

    What’s the role of local government? The answer you get from this government is the same as Labour, the Alliance and the Greens – whatever local politicians want it to be!

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