UN votes that executing gays is okay

November 23rd, 2010 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

The enemies of freedom continue to make gains at the . This is the problem when so many of the members are countries with little regard for human rights.

Pink paper reports:

The United Nations has removed a plea for lesbians, gays and bisexuals not to be executed in a narrow vote.

For the last 10 years sexual orientation has been included in a list of discriminatory grounds for executions – rights activists say the vote to remove that listing is “dangerous and disturbing.”

The UN resolution urges countries to protect the right to life of all people, calling on them to investigate killings based on discriminatory grounds. Sexual orientation was previously listed as one of these forms of discrimination, alongside ethnicity, religious belief and linguistic minorities.

Others protected by the resolution were human rights defenders (like journalists, lawyers and demonstrators), street children and members of indigenous communities.

So pretty much everyone except gays have the right to life.

But now sexual orientation has been taken out of the list. The amendment was supported by Benin in Africa on behalf of the African Group in the UN General Assembly. It passed on a narrow vote of 79 for, 70 against , 17 abstentions and 26 absent.

Some of those voting to remove sexual orientation were countries where gays are known to be or thought to be executed or summarily killed including Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iraq.

No doubt many of them are members of the Human Rights Council.

Iran almost got elected to the Women’s Rights Commission – it took a dedicated campaign from the US to shame enough other countries to vote against Iran.

We do need a UN which all countries belong to. But its scope should be limited. We need another body to complement it – some sort of league of democratic nations. There should be quite tough criteria for admission, the ability to be expelled, and benefits for joining (such as free trade between members).

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129 Responses to “UN votes that executing gays is okay”

  1. slightlyrighty (2,475 comments) says:

    Helen Clark should resign if that ruling stands. At least she should if she has any principles.

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  2. Monty (978 comments) says:

    I am sure that Helen Clark will now resign in protest rather than work for an organisation which is happy to continue to allow gays to be executed. Work in this area has been her life work and if she does not resign then she will risk being called a hypocrite. Oh wait …….

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  3. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    >Iran almost got elected to the Women’s Rights Commission – it took a dedicated campaign from the US to shame enough other countries to vote against Iran.

    However, Saudi Arabia was elected to the body. The UN is a disgrace.

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  4. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    Sadly the UN is a joke.
    It has been since it’s foundation based on the victorious Allies 0f WW2 that had to include the despotic Soviets and the shambolic Chinese (who were eventually expelled to include the more numerous Communist Chinese).
    The post colonial era brought in the African kleptocracies and of course we are now witnessing the new Islamic era.
    I find it ironic though that there is a call to protect all life when the UN is used as a global abortion promoter.Some life is more protected than others.

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  5. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    And UN performs what useful function?

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  6. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    The Saudi dictatorship has been elected to the UN Women’s Rights Commission? May as well vote for Jack the Ripper.

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  7. petal (706 comments) says:

    deleted – comment on wrong page. how did that happen?

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  8. Atheist1 (174 comments) says:

    KrisK will have something nice to say about the UN for once. Beats his idea of sending all sodomites to a desert island.

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  9. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Those 26 absentees should give themselves an uppercut.

    This is an outrageous decision and I hope the MSM makes a meal of it.

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  10. Brian Smaller (4,023 comments) says:

    Those 26 absentees should give themselves an uppercut.

    This is an outrageous decision and I hope the MSM makes a meal of it.

    adze – don’t hold your breath. The Left MSM wont say a word against sharia law and Islamic barbarity. Why will they start now? They have said nothing much about gays being executed in Iran or Saudi for years.

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  11. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    We need another body to complement it – some sort of league of democratic nations.

    If the UN is going to accept lowering of standards then I agree there should be some sort of CN also. (Civilised Nations.)

    I wonder what the CN benchmark on tolerance for homosexuality would be. Would it be truly aspirational or would it merely default to being the same as the USA stance? I.e. It’s not ok to summarily kill them (as in Saudi) but it’s ok to deny access to marriage, adoption (as in USA?)

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  12. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    david
    you state We do need a UN which all countries belong to. But its scope should be limited. We need another body to complement it – some sort of league of democratic nations. There should be quite tough criteria for admission, the ability to be expelled, and benefits for joining (such as free trade between members)

    Why not everyone at the UN have to honour the UN Human rights declaration as members and if they don’t, that country cannot sit on committees and only has Observer status with no voting rights until it is put right.
    This should also apply to membership of the Security council too, surely?

    I’m not sure any alternative organisation would work as it will have to exclude all Islamic Sharia compliant countries as Sharia law is non democratic and doesn’t recognise our common humanity.

    All non-muslims are 3rd class citizens in the country of their birth, behind Muslim women who are 2nd class.

    as for Free trade, are you suggesting we should can our free trade agreement with the Chinese Regime?

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  13. Jeff83 (745 comments) says:

    I wonder what the CN benchmark on tolerance for homosexuality would be. Would it be truly aspirational or would it merely default to being the same as the USA stance? I.e. It’s not ok to summarily kill them (as in Saudi) but it’s ok to deny access to marriage, adoption (as in USA?)

    Or even serve in the military.

    US is hardly the country anymore to champion rights for homosexuals, the conservative movement in the US has seen to that.

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  14. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    This is actually a bit of a beat up.

    No one said it’s OK to kill anyone!

    Shows the power of the pinkies too that this is running like it is.

    By the way after the amendment was accepted 165 voted for with 10 abstains. Godzone one the 165.

    Here’s a more detailed link.

    http://alaskapride.blogspot.com/2010/11/79-united-nations-members-resist-gay.html

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  15. lastmanstanding (1,297 comments) says:

    Example 7937 why the UN and all who work there are a waste of oxygen

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  16. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    A haven for Dictators, despots and tyrants.

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  17. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Thanks Kowtow.

    In case anyone has missed it they didn’t vote to execute homosexuals.
    They voted not to give homosexuals the same protected status as colour, gender etc.

    In that they made the discrete decision to treat Homosexuality as a choice/behaviour
    or
    as something that is not helpful or bad to society and shouldn’t be privileged
    or both.

    Of course the first world voted for the amendment, they have been captured by the pro homosexual lobby through their media, education and political process.

    But don’t worry those sick evil third world countries will grow up and get educated sometime and they’ll come running when they want more money too!
    So we’ll get them then.

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  18. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    The Saudi dictatorship has been elected to the UN Women’s Rights Commission?

    What would you want then? To not have the UN at all, and then there would be absolutely no way to have any influence whatsoever over those countries with practices which Westerner’s abhor?

    The fact is at least these things are debated and raised at the UN.

    There has to be a world body which includes almost every nation in the world. The overwhelming number of countries in the world are non-Western. If any particular Western country does not like that they can always withdraw from the UN.

    A ‘world’ grouping necessarily and by definintion includes countries such as China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, and Belarus.

    Just as Westerners put up with sitting next to members of ‘non-democratic’ regimes, non-Westerners have to put up with sitting next to those Western countries which invaded and colonised them in the not too distant past, and which even today ride roughshod over world opinion and invade developing countries.

    In any case, three of the five permanent members of the security council represent the interests of the West, and can veto anything that is not in the interests of the West. So what’s all this whingeing about?

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  19. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    Kowtow’s link has a list of how the nations voted.

    In favor of the amendment to remove sexual orientation from the resolution on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions (79): Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belize, Benin, Botswana, Brunei Dar-Sala, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, China, Comoros, Congo, Cote d’Ivoire, Cuba, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syrian Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Republic of Tanzania, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

    Against (70): Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bhutan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Micronesia (FS), Monaco, Montenegro, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Samoa, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela

    Abstain (17): Antigua-Barbuda, Barbados, Belarus, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Colombia, Fiji, Mauritius, Mongolia, Papau New Guinea, Philippines, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Vanuatu

    Absent (26): Albania, Bolivia, Central African Republic, Chad, Dominica, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Honduras, Kiribati, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Marshall Island, Mauritania, Nauru, Nicaragua, Palau, Sao Tome Principe, Seychelles, Solomon Islands, Togo, Tonga, Turkey, Turkmenistan

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  20. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Zhumao
    Some good perspective points you make there and how is the Peoples Democratic Regime of China nowadays.
    Is Liu Xioabo going to be able to collect his Nobel Peace Prize?

    Are they going to honour the UN declaration of Human rights for all their citizens?

    It is all very well claiming civilised status but when you imprison and execute people because they stand against corrupt government tyranny in a corrupt legal system, please don’t compare them to Western legal systems and democratic states.

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  21. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    This is actually a bit of a beat up.

    No one said it’s OK to kill anyone!

    Exactly. A total beatup. In fact only 25 years ago, New Zealand would have had no choice but support such a move to remove gays as some sort of protected group. The homosexual law reform bill was only passed in the late 1980s.

    And yet Westerners now lecture developing countries on not thinking the same way as them when it comes to gay ‘rights.’

    Interestingly much of the opposition does not come from just Muslim countries. It is sub-saharan Christian Africans true to the faith who are disgusted by homosexuality. In fact it was Christian Uganda which actually proposed a death penalty law for homosexuality earlier in the year. Robert Mugabe, a Catholic, has called gays pigs and dogs.

    This is wrong of course, but at least African Christians follow true Christian teachings on this matter.

    It is quite strange that in the West seeing so-called Christian clergymen defending homosexuality.

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  22. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    Zhumao, when did New Zealand ever execute someone for their sexual orientation?

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  23. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    …it took a dedicated campaign from the US to shame enough other countries to vote against Iran.

    Hmmm. Based on this video of the “highlights” of US representatives abasing themselves before the UN Human Rights Council, I would think that the US power to shame anybody will soon draw to a close.

    Assistant Secretary of State Michael Posner made an appearance to play his designated role demeaning the United States on behalf of the Obama administration.

    Posner replied “thanks to very many of the delegations for thoughtful comments and suggestions” shortly after Cuba said the U.S. blockade of Cuba was a “crime of genocide,” Iran “condemned and expressed its deep concern over the situation of human rights” in the United States, and North Korea said it was “concerned by systematic widespread violations committed by the United States at home and abroad.”

    It must be immensely satisfying to Western Leftists to see the country they have so long attacked on these matters (…US is hardly the country anymore to champion rights for homosexuals, the conservative movement in the US has seen to that…) now repeating many of their ideas in a sad global version of a Maoist self-criticism session.

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  24. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Zhumao
    It is clear that the UN is necessary as a talking shop, but to make declarations and hold people to them it is not.
    or to seek to interfere in nation’s sovereignty, seeking to replace that nation’s people’s sovereignty with the Un’s oligarchy 3000 miles away….

    If the UN members won’t adhere to its founding documents or it’s own Human Rights Declaration then they should not be eligible to vote or UN and all it’s agencies should be rescinded and start again.

    Especially not allow the UN to have it’s own army, court or taxation (income stream) as it is a haven for Tyrants, Dictators and Despots.

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  25. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    It is all very well claiming civilised status ……please don’t compare them to Western legal systems and democratic states.

    An absurd comment. The UN necessarily includes all nations in the world. It is not a club for those who deem one another ‘civilised’ or ‘democratic’. It is by nature a fractious organisation. You join the club knowing full well that most of the other members are not the sort of people you would have round for dinner. But the club still has a function.

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  26. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Given that homosexuality is an innate, cross-cultural phenomenon that harms no-one, I am disappointed to see so many nations support the notion that gays can be arbitrarily executed. Especially sad to see first world nation Singapore merely abstain (possibly not to anger their larger Moslem neighbours).

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  27. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    you do not have permission to edit this comment

    Uh – okay!

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  28. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Tom
    Forgive me for being a tad skeptical of that report, as I’m of the opinion that the US campaign in the UNHCR was a non campaign for Human Rights per se, but more to do with pressuring Iran in any forum it could. Because of it’s stance in building nuclear weapons and financing and enabling the killing of American soldiers and Intelligence personnel around the globe.

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  29. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    We need another body to complement it – some sort of league of democratic nations.

    What do you mean ‘complement’ it. Such an organisation you have in mind would include only a minority of the world’s nations, and a minority of the world’s population. Such an organisation would simply be Western countries getting together to wank each other telling one another how wonderful and rich they all are.

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  30. GPT1 (2,122 comments) says:

    Just another example of thousands of why the UN is a complete embarrassment.

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  31. Steve Wrathall (284 comments) says:

    Oooh look. The cuddly-wuddly rainbow nation of South Africa also lining up with the islamofascists.

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  32. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    adze
    They didn’t support the notion that homosexuals can be executed, they refused to give homosexuality the same standing as hair colour, race or gender.
    A very different position that you are trying to spin :-)

    A position that comes from not accepting the premise that homosexuality is an innate cross-cultural phenomenon that harms no-one

    No rather their position is inter alia that Homosexuality does harm someone and that includes society, hence their need to state clearly that homosexuality is not the same as colour, gender or hair/eye colour.

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  33. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Steve
    yeah everything is hunky dory in South Africa for African and Coloureds and Indians and Chinese and Europeans now.
    Rather like the UN.

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  34. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    Such an organisation would simply be Western countries getting together to wank each other telling one another how wonderful and rich they all are.

    You might like to consider Zhumao that in western countries the people are free to vote governments in, and out. Nowhere else in the world, ever in the whole history of human civilisation have people enjoyed this freedom. Even your beloved China right now does not allow its citizens this right to chose their own country’s direction.

    For all of their other failings, western democracy really really is a wonderful thing in this way. And still has an example to provide to a lot of nasty, totalitarian regimes. Including the one you bow down to.

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  35. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Zhumao
    How rude of you to not include non western nations that are striving for the ideals of democracy, you bigot you!

    Please list all the countries you think would qualify as decent democratic entities that protect their citizens and provide a safe environment for them to excel in as best they can?
    1.
    2.
    3.

    come on ;-)

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  36. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    “Given that homosexuality is an innate, cross-cultural phenomenon that harms no-one”

    I personally have nothing against homosexuals. But many people in the world do. Surely the feelings of those billions of people who find homosexuality disgusting should be afforded some degree of respect?

    It is beyond dispute that the average male homosexual is more promiscuous than the average male heterosexual, and is far more likely to have a venereal disease. Therefore as a factual matter, saying homosexuality harms no-one is simply not true. From the health perspective alone people should be warned away from such a lifestyle.

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  37. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Zhumao
    It is all very well claiming civilised status ……please don’t compare them to Western legal systems and democratic states

    I don’t, China is an uncivilised wicked regime that preys upon it’s own people, has a corrupt legal system, forments instability both in it’s own backyard and around the globe and should never have been given entry into the WTO.

    It certainly isn’t deserving of Security council status at the UN.

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  38. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    Zhumao , you say you have “nothing against homosexuals” and then proceed to imply that they are sex mad and riddled with the pox. So which paragraph are we to believe?

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  39. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    forments instability both in it’s own backyard

    Like how?

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  40. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    MikeNZ

    I’ve no doubt that the US (or more to the point, the Obama administration) has reached the point where all it has left to stop the Iranians is weak-arsed symbolism in forums like this that the Iranian leadership regards as a joke.

    Unfortunately, even if one is going to think that such an approach is an important lever, it still might have paid Obama to ask whether the symbolism of allowing his nation to be compared to the likes of North Korea might produce more negatives than positives over the long run.

    As I said above – this is exactly what the Western Left have been saying about the US for years – and those arguments have been the basis for endless amounts of moral equivalency arguments for the US and the West to do nothing (in some cases to say nothing) about the horrors. Now it’s an official policy platform of the US.

    It’s rather like the scene in The Lord of War, where Cage’s arms-dealing character is confronted by one of his African dictator buyers gleefully waving a front-page copy of the NYT with the photo of the Supreme Court Justices below the headline announcing their decision to stop the Florida recount. Because in his mind it’s the same thing.

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  41. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    Zhumao , you say you have “nothing against homosexuals” and then outline what you have against them in the next paragraph. So which paragraph are we to believe?

    Bullshit. Its just like I personally have nothing in particular against smokers (as long as it is not in my face). But I would advise anyone against smoking.

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  42. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    “I personally have nothing against homosexuals. But many people in the world do. Surely the feelings of those billions of people who find homosexuality disgusting should be afforded some degree of respect?”

    I personally have nothing against ginger-haired people. But many people in the world do. Surely the feelings of those billions of people who find ginger-haired people disgusting should be afforded some degree of respect?

    You’re saying that a category of people in the world are considered disgusting by a larger group in the world, therefore the latter “should be afforded some degree of respect.” How? By making it ok to execute them on religious grounds, say, when they have no choice in the matter? What makes this attitude less disgusting that executing on the basis of ethnicity, religion or sex? There is more choice in religious identity than in sexual orientation.

    “It is beyond dispute I think, that homosexuals are more promiscuous than heterosexuals, and are far more likely to have venereal disease.”

    Uh-huh. I don’t suppose you have a reputable peer-reviewed source for that? And so what, in any case – is homosexuality the problem here, or promiscuity? Should we remove human rights for men because they commit more murders than women?

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  43. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    adze, I wouldn’t spend too much time worrying about Zhumao. He just comes here to pass the time while he eats his lunch. He could happily fill in an hour having an argument with a chair.

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  44. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    Uh-huh. I don’t suppose you have a peer-reviewed sources for that?

    The evidence is abundant for this. Google it yourself.

    Just as men are inherently far more promiscuous than women, so homosexual males must be far more promiscuous than heterosexual males (in the same way that gay women, lesbians are not promiscuous in the way gay males are).

    But I have nothing against gays personally. And would not want to see them persecuted. But I also have nothing against Christians or Muslims who regard homosexuality an abmomination.

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  45. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    “The evidence is abundant for this. Google it yourself.”

    I’m not doing your work for you, buddy. You made the claim, not me.

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  46. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    zhumao
    Does “all country’s in the world” include membership for The Republic of China?

    and I hope your earlier posts were not implying that Red China is undemocratic,after all it’s constitution states clearly it is “democratic” and all power rests in the people……..bwah,hahahahaha,….bump….Ive just fallen off my chair…..

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  47. Repton (769 comments) says:

    Zhumao, if you were voting in a referendum on the question of whether discrimination based on sexual preference should be treated the same was as discrimination based on race, how would you vote?

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  48. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    Actually – if the left are going to get all excited about civil liberties being degraded or extinguished in the US they might want to have a look at the TSA disaster in US airports. As one reader of Instapundit pointed out:

    Remember how not long ago the President was so upset about the possibility of people being stopped and asked for “their papers” while going to get ice cream? It was the height of living in a police state. Yet we’ve not heard a peep out of him while TSA goons grope the general public (including nuns and little kids) on the way to grandma’s house.

    If we are expected to put up with this, asking to see “your papers” suddenly seems a less onerous request.

    I did like this play on an old theme as well: Grope and Change

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  49. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Adze
    No of course not, you punish the committer, ie jail or death sentence the murderer whether it be man or woman.

    These countries were doing the same to homosexuality, they deem it not the same as gender, colour of hair/eyes and should not be protected the same.

    As for the harm in the homosexual lifestyle, don’t go anywhere near google as you’ll find no hope there.
    I suppose you could try the “it’s all about homosexuals in other parts of the world” defence but that doesn’t stop these facts does it.

    http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/2010/11/homosexists_fan.html

    Language is very instructive as it lays out the soul of a sub culture in scoiety.
    254 words for chicken anyone?

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  50. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    Repton,

    Homosexuals are not discriminated against for being homosexuals. There are laws against sexual acts, which are mostly indulged in by homosexuals. Heterosexuals are similarly restricted by such laws, although of course they will not be burdened by these laws to nearly the same extent.

    Racial discrimination is a different thing. People are simply being punished for being born a certain skin colour, not for what they do.

    Having said that I do not think homosexuals should be discriminated against. But discrimination against gays, while deplorable, is not as bad as discriminating against someone simply because of skin colour.

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  51. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Adze
    found it for you, now here it is easy, let you fingers do the walking :-)
    Just so you can see into the heart value of the homosexual lifestyle.

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16461

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16465

    That’s not to say we wouldn’t find similar in other pedophiles language for little girls, when i find an article on it I’ll post it for you to show I’m fair on all pedophiles.

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  52. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Oh shit Zhumao you’ve done it there..

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  53. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    One appalling result of denying the truth about the homosexual lifestyle, at least in the West, is that heterosexuals have been led to believe that they are at equal risk of HIV infection as homosexuals.

    Which is completely untrue. What is unmentioned in the West is that the vast majority of HIV infected individuals in Western countries are gay. The gay lifestyle is a dangerous one.

    Saying so is not being anti-gay, or advocating for discrimination against gays.

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  54. Rufus (667 comments) says:

    Atheist1 11:24

    Totally uncalled for.

    You’re not really doing yourself any favours with such a nasty, vindictive, spiteful remark.

    If you want people to respect you or your view, try showing them and their views some too. You don’t have to agree with them, but at least be civil.

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  55. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    Zhu De was a Chinese Communist military leader and statesman. He is regarded as the founder of the Chinese Red Army (the forerunner of the People’s Liberation Army) and the tactician who engineered the revolution from which emerged the People’s Republic of China.

    Zhu’s close affiliation with Mao Zedong began in 1928 when under the assistance of Chen Yi and Lin Biao, Zhu brought his army of 10,000 men to the Jinggang Mountains where Mao had formed a soviet in 1927. From these humble beginnings, Zhu built the Red Army into a skilled guerrilla force that consolidated and expanded the PLA areas of control. Zhu was the military expert, and Mao was the political expert. They needed each other.

    Zhu’s bravery and skill in leading these men made him a figure of immense prestige. Locals credited him with supernatural abilities. During this time Mao and Zhu became so closely connected that to the local peasant farmers they were known collectively as “Zhu Mao”

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  56. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    During this time Mao and Zhu became so closely connected that to the local peasant farmers they were known collectively as “Zhu Mao”

    Hahaha —surprised it took so long for someone to pick up on this. Yes. Hence Zhumao. A minor inaccuracy – the PLA was not thus named until after WWII. Otherwise, very good.

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  57. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    An interesting pseudonym to use. Something Freudian going on there perhaps.

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  58. Banana Llama (1,043 comments) says:

    Rofl Mao …

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  59. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Homosexuals are not discriminated against for being homosexuals. There are laws against sexual acts, which are mostly indulged in by homosexuals. Heterosexuals are similarly restricted by such laws, although of course they will not be burdened by these laws to nearly the same extent.

    I presume you’re referring to anal sex (which was banned here in NZ too until about 1985 I think). But you do realise that many homosexual partners (especially lesbians!) do not have anal sex?

    Are all acts of homosexual intimacy prohibited in these countries? Or is it just a convenient coathook for historical and religious prejudices?

    Racial discrimination is a different thing. People are simply being punished for being born a certain skin colour, not for what they do.

    It is entirely the same principle. People do not choose to be homosexual just as people do not choose their ethnicity. And homosexuality (ie. NOT unsafe sexual acts, but the sexual orientation itself) as distinguished from paedophilia, non-consensual sex etc., does no harm.

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  60. DJP6-25 (1,387 comments) says:

    Without funding from the US, the UN would collapse. Dumping it would be a huge blow for the international left. No more UN bs for domestic leftists to base legislation on. What’s not to like?

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  61. Chuck Bird (4,890 comments) says:

    “People do not choose to be homosexual just as people do not choose their ethnicity”

    I think you meant IMNSHO. That is an opinion not a fact.

    “And homosexuality (ie. NOT unsafe sexual acts, but the sexual orientation itself) as distinguished from paedophilia, non-consensual sex etc., does no harm.”

    How many homosexuals do not practice unsafe sexual acts? One guy fucking another guy up the arse is unsafe even if a condom is used. I object to my taxpayer money going to the NZ AIDS Foundation to promote the lie that it is safe.

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  62. edhunter (547 comments) says:

    oohh poor li homo’s. Hey here’s an idea if you all feel that strongly about it lets go to war & send your sons & daughters to fight for the right to be able to butt fuck. Let’s face it that’s not going to happen, why does anyone really care what’s passed by the UN, nations just picks & chooses what they want to listen & adhere too anyway.

    [DPF: You are aware that many women enjoy being butt fucked also? It is not unique to men. And many heterosexual men enjoy butt fucking women]

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  63. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    Hmm, an outfit for democratic countries, so would so called countries countries that carry out apartheid be welcome to join ?

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  64. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    Did you make a conscious choice to be heterosexual, Chuck? I certainly didn’t make a conscious choice, but there we go.

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  65. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    @grumpyoldhori: “so called countries”?

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  66. Atheist1 (174 comments) says:

    @Rufus, I couldn’t care less whether you and your bigoted mates respect my views or not. All I know is I have NO respect for your delusions and their resultant bigotry.

    Have a nice day.

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  67. Chuck Bird (4,890 comments) says:

    “I certainly didn’t make a conscious choice”

    JiveKitty please elaborate. Are homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual?

    I believe there is some predisposition to homosexual attraction but the predisposition does no preclude choice.

    Some people may have predisposition to alcohol. When they realise that they have a choice. Most health men have a predisposition to good looking women particualrly if there is mutual attraction. If that woman is married to a good friend you have a choise.

    I do not accept that it has been proven that people are born heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. Many people change.

    I bet there are a lot fewer homosexuals in Iran that San Francisco. People have choice.

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  68. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Zhumao>I personally have nothing against homosexuals. But many people in the world do. Surely the feelings of those billions of people who find homosexuality disgusting should be afforded some degree of respect?

    I personally have nothing against Chinese people. But many people in the world do. Surely the feelings of those billions of people who find Chinese people disgusting should be afforded some degree of respect?

    After all, Chinese people are full of disease. They all need glasses because they spend too much time wanking. And everyone knows that Chinese people can’t drive.

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  69. Atheist1 (174 comments) says:

    ^^@davidp: Brilliant.

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  70. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    Heterosexual. I notice you haven’t answered my question.

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  71. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Davidp will no doubt resort to the defence that he was really being satirical or ironic when challenged over his 3.40 post, which included this:

    …After all, Chinese people are full of disease. They all need glasses because they spend too much time wanking. And everyone knows that Chinese people can’t drive…

    Davidp is obviously stung by Zhumao’s view on homosexuality, but that doesn’t justify this racist attack.

    Davidp’s post parallels the arrogant views about Japanese that cost Westerners so dearly at the beginning of World War 2. That time it went something like, the Japanese wear glasses, they won’t be any good at aiming from bombers, they are too bandy for route marching, etc etc.

    The Japanese, paralleling their German allies, developed great skills in dive bombing, which had been invented by the British at the end of World War 1, then largely forgotten. The Japanese Navy dive bombers sank British battleships and carriers, and initially savaged the American Pacific fleet. The bandy, tough little infantrymen outfought the Westerners until the latter learned how to move and make war in the jungle.

    China has been under Communism for more than 60 years, but it is still a land of culture and historical science and achievement, and it now looks to be resurgent. I’m sure the views of Chinese on homosexuality are as diverse as New Zealanders’ views on it.

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  72. flipper (4,068 comments) says:

    Good.

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  73. Chuck Bird (4,890 comments) says:

    JiveKitty, I did not answer because it seems like a when did you stop beating your wife type of question.

    I believe heterosexuality is normal as nature intended for procreational of the species. I did not make a conscious choice as you ask. However, that might not be the case for young people today with the current sex education where homosexuality is all be promoted.

    Because the vast majority of people are attracted to the opposite sex naturally it does not prove that homosexuals and bisexuals are born that way. I have heard that argument many times but do not accept it.

    You may accept it and so might anyone else but that does no make it a fact.

    I must go out now but check out http://www.mygenes.co.nz/

    This explains things better than I can.

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  74. Chuck Bird (4,890 comments) says:

    From what I hear there are no homosexuals in China.

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  75. Pete George (23,576 comments) says:

    Homosexuality may be best likened to left-handedness.

    A minority of people are left-handed. Hand orientation is developed as a fetus. It is not a choice, but overriding it partially can be a choice.

    In an intolerant school system left-handers can be forced to write with their right hand, but for some it is difficult, and they may still be left-handed with other things as in sport, and they still may be left-footed.

    A smaller minority are ambidextrous – they can swing either way.

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  76. Rufus (667 comments) says:

    Atheist1 3:33

    ROFL – you’re so predictable :)

    Tell me again why we should respect you or your views when you won’t extend that (erstwhile common) courtesy to others? Not very tolerant of you…

    Peace.

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  77. Rufus (667 comments) says:

    Atheist1 3:33 -@Rufus, I couldn’t care less whether you and your bigoted mates respect my views or not. All I know is I have NO respect for your delusions and their resultant bigotry.

    Do you even know what the definition of the word “bigot” is? Or tolerance?

    Let me help:

    bigot – a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. (dictionary.com)

    I tolerate your views. I won’t agree with them, but since I believe in free speech, I put up with them (that’s called “tolerance”).

    That makes me anything but a bigot.

    Now look in the mirror. Where’s the real bigot?

    Peace.

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  78. Dazzaman (1,140 comments) says:

    They voted not to give homosexuals the same protected status as colour, gender etc.

    Good!! Not even remotely the same.

    Chuck Bird makes some very valid points and so does [gasp!!] zhumao…

    I’ll leave it at that, otherwise I might get more demerits for putting the boot into fags gays…lol

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  79. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    “[DPF: You are aware that many women enjoy being butt fucked also? It is not unique to men. And many heterosexual men enjoy butt fucking women]”

    Yes, so I’ve heard. But I’ll be buggered if I’ve ever met one.

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  80. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    Dazzaman, I bet you are still splitting your sides at having been capable of typing “fags” and then replacing it with “gays.” As they say, small things amuse small minds…

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  81. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Jack5>The Japanese, paralleling their German allies, developed great skills in dive bombing, which had been invented by the British at the end of World War 1, then largely forgotten. The Japanese Navy dive bombers sank British battleships and carriers, and initially savaged the American Pacific fleet. The bandy, tough little infantrymen outfought the Westerners until the latter learned how to move and make war in the jungle.

    Japan and China aren’t the same place, no matter how similar their residents look to you Jack. Unless you have evidence that Zhumao has personally sunk a British battleship via means of dive bombing, then I suggest that your defence of his anti-gay rant has no merit.

    While we’re waiting so find out if Zhumao personally “savaged” the American fleet at Pearl Harbor, maybe you can address the issue of Chinese driving. Because if I am correct and it is universally bad, then the UN would be quite right to remove any protection for Chinese people from random racist violence and arbitrary arrest. Then we could all go out and treat Chinese people the same brutal way the Chinese government does.

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  82. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Chuck
    Thanks a clear booklet
    http://www.mygenes.co.nz/Misconceptions.pdf

    Rodders
    I take it that it was your intention to disclose Chucks contacts?

    As a matter of fairness I think you should post yours too.

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  83. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    No MikeNZ, that wasn’t my intention at all and I would be happy for my comment to be deleted if Chuck has an objection to me linking to the document. I was only highlighting that he appears to be so obsessed with homosexuals, he couldn’t even refrain from mentioning them when he made a submission to parliament.

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  84. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Is the UN trying to tell us that homosexuality is abnormal? I think so. I am glad my chickens aren’t homo’s ’cause I’d get no eggs and KFC Haha. Well done UN..

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  85. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Davidp (4.59 post) responds to my criticism of his racism (my 4.14 post) by suggesting I likened Chinese to Japanese.

    Davidp, I likened your prejudice against Chinese to Western prejudice against Japanese in the 1930s and 1940s, with disastrous outcome. I likened your rant about Chinese eyesight to Western prejudice about Japanese eyesight in those far off decades.

    You talk of Zhumao’s anti-gay rant, but answer it with an anti-Chinese rant. What sort of logic is that?

    And Davidp, why accuse Chinese of universally being bad drivers? I have found cab drivers of China proficient and safe at the wheel. Being driven in, say, Shanghai, is less nerve-wracking than being driven in India.

    I would have thought homosexuals’ long campaign for legal equality would have made them sensitive to group prejudices, such as about alleged skills of Chinese drivers.

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  86. Nookin (3,345 comments) says:

    Christopher Thomson: 4.5 3 p.m.
    Brilliant. Unfortunately it went over many heads.

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  87. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    Nookin, a wee hat-tip and a thank you for seeing it and letting me know. I thought it was going to be wasted; not so. You have a good day.

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  88. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Remember McCain’s League of Democracies idea?

    But nah, peace hope change, yes we can etc. Appease Russia. That’s what you build a foreign policy around.

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  89. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    What makes homosexuals play the aids roulette game of death?

    Aunty Hell and gals will be pissing blood over this. Not to mention Peter Davis. Haha.

    Haha.

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  90. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    maybe you can address the issue of Chinese driving. Because if I am correct and it is universally bad, then the UN would be quite right to remove any protection for Chinese people from random racist violence and arbitrary arrest.

    The issue of Chinese driving. Yes, new immigrants have some quirky driving habits, due to many of them being new to the wheel, and the different driving conditions found in Asia.

    But can you point to statistics showing Chinese overrepresentation in getting killed or killing others on the roads? I don’t think you can.

    “Certainly there’s no evidence to say Asian drivers are over-represented in serious crashes, and if anything, they are under-represented.” Land Transport spokesman Andy Knackstedt
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10359471

    I have presented incontrovertible evidence that the gay lifestyle is extremely dangerous, at least compared to a straight lifestyle.

    You have presented zero evidence that Asians are bad drivers.

    Religious groups have every right to proscribe any type of behaviour they wish, sexual or otherwise. Just because Catholics believe sexual acts associated with homosexuality are a sin, that does not mean they hate homosexuals or wish ill of them. Mormons, proscribe the drinking of tea or coffee. Does that mean that they hate or wish ill of me, a coffee drinker? Of course not.

    But many people in the world do. Surely the feelings of those billions of people who find Chinese people disgusting should be afforded some degree of respect?

    This is a stupid analogy. Finding people disgusting simply because of their race, is completely different from finding certain acts disgusting. If I decide to set up a group for say left-handed, cat lovers , that is my right to discriminate against those who are not left-handed cat lovers. But if I set up a group which excludes people on skin pigmentation, that is another thing altogether.

    You should set up a group which excludes bad drivers. If that means less Asians qualify so be it.

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  91. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    How many demerits are you on D4J? You seem to be walking a fine line

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  92. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Nicky Dear – between you and big brendan you should send enough complaints to Farrar to send me packing. This place is packed with nit picking narks. Oh the old days were so good. Go do some washing Nicky you pathetic wimp. What a jerk thing to say. Unreal FFS.

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  93. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Evening Nick.

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  94. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Here comes Nicky’s fat twin sister big brenda. Go on girls send your complaints to Farrar. Go on gals. Go on wimps. Go on cowards. Go on weak ones. Go on timid creeps.

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  95. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    D4J flattering you would think that, but I do have better things to do with my time than complain to DPF about an internet basketcase.

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  96. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Sure you have Nicky. You and big brenda could send multiple complaints. Get a life wimp.

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  97. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    This thread is made for Kris K….where is he?

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  98. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    nickb

    I can send you a template if you like, it saves a shit load of time.

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  99. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    At least big brenda admits its a nark Nicky. FFS what a sick unit.

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  100. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    Nookin @604 and CT 638

    Not wasted at all.

    Rodger and out.

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  101. Dirty Rat (504 comments) says:

    Evening Buv

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  102. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Evening Rat4justice

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  103. Dirty Rat (504 comments) says:

    Im looking forward to a good night. A bottle of wine, Coronation Street, a Turkey Baster and a Nurse on the rag.

    How’s your night turning out ?

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  104. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Not as boring as I first thought it might be….

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  105. Nookin (3,345 comments) says:

    Is this foreplay or are we getting in to the real thing?

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  106. Dirty Rat (504 comments) says:

    ‘we’ ?

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  107. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Is Peter coming over for dinner Rat?

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  108. Nookin (3,345 comments) says:

    “you”

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  109. JiveKitty (778 comments) says:

    Kris is either not about or showing some unusual restraint.

    @Zhumao, Chuck Bird, etc. Do you understand what a non-sequitur is?

    The key point to take from this resolution is that it indicates the UN has whored out its stated aspirational principles in order to foster a sense of inclusivity with regard to certain states. You’d think if the UN was built around a set of aspirational principles that its members would have to make an effort to stick to them and that resolutions, etc, which were contrary to the explicit statement of the principles could not be made. They obviously don’t.

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  110. Dirty Rat (504 comments) says:

    No, just enjoying a lovely evening with my partner, watching Coronation Street, and getting her drunk

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  111. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Why would you watch Coro now that Karen has gone?

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  112. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    The UN is a bureaucratic joke.

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  113. Tauhei Notts (1,715 comments) says:

    Dirty Rat at 7.40 p.m.
    When you use the word rag do you mean rags or do you mean rug?

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  114. Pete George (23,576 comments) says:

    The UN is required, if it can do anything:

    North Korea on Tuesday fired artillery into the sea near its tense western sea border with South Korea, injuring at least four South Korean soldiers, the Yonhap news agency reported.

    At least 200 rounds of artillery hit an inhabited South Korean island, Yonhap said.

    The country’s military responded with 80 rounds of artillery and deployed fighter jets to counter the fire, Yonhap said.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/23/nkorea.skorea.military.fire/index.html?hpt=T1

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  115. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    Pete G

    If Korea proves anything it proves the UN is useless,as does Cambodia,Somalia,Sudan,Congo,Rwanda,Bosnia,the Soviet occupation of Central Europe in 1945……..the expulsion of the Republic of China…etc etc…

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  116. Zhumao (339 comments) says:

    “the expulsion of the Republic of China…etc etc…”

    Well at least you understand that Taiwan is part of China. Well done.

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  117. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    slightlyrighty (1,611) Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 11:04 am
    Helen Clark should resign if that ruling stands. At least she should if she has any principles.

    …………………………………………………………………………………………….
    Just got in from a couple of days on the road, tired, and read the first comment here, still laughing trying to imagine Helen Clark with principals, brilliant.

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  118. Chuck Bird (4,890 comments) says:

    Rodders, I do not mind you linking my submission. My reference to homosexuals was entirely relevant. They have disproportionate influence in Parliament to their number in the population. I was appalled that National went along with knee jerk legislation to a tragedy. Only ACT had the good since to oppose it. ACT is made up of a lot of liberals but they would not support populist legislation to gain a few votes.

    I did not realise submissions went on line. Please let me know if you see my latest on the F & S. I did not make any reference to homosexuals. I was tempted to make reference to a certain motherfucker but settled for racist thug.

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  119. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    “The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.” PEDIATRICS Vol. 113 No. 6 June 2004, pp. 1827-1832

    This is a source for my claim that homosexuality is not a choice, to show it is not just MNSHO but based in fact. The quoted paragraph cites two further studies if anyone’s interested.

    It has been protested that sexual behaviour by some gay men is high risk. But this is not a coherent objection to having sexual orientation protected along with ethnicity etc as reasons for arbitrary execution, as it concerns health outcomes and behaviour by a subset of homosexuals (and a subset of heterosexuals). It does not speak to any other possible “gay lifestyle” particularly the case of lesbians. Nor does it explain why risky behaviour by members of a group means the whole group should be discriminated against on the basis of something they cannot change.

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  120. Chuck Bird (4,890 comments) says:

    Rodders, thanks for that link. As you can imagine I am strongly opposed to this bill. That link may prove useful.

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  121. Dazzaman (1,140 comments) says:

    Dazzaman, I bet you are still splitting your sides at having been capable of typing “fags” and then replacing it with “gays.” As they say, small things amuse small minds…

    How observant Rodders! Silly soft cock.

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