Desperate spin from NZUSA
December 1st, 2010 at 2:47 pm by David FarrarOh this really is getting sad. NZUSA have spent some of their compulsory given fees on a poll, which they claim has 77% of NZers opposed to Heather Roy’s VSM bill.
NZUSA claim:
Public poll reveals overwhelming majority opposed to Act Party bill
It of course reveals no such thing
The New Zealand public has again overwhelmingly declared that students themselves should determine the method of students’ association membership, a week out from the committee stage of a Bill that attempts to remove this choice.
“Students are best placed to make their own decisions about the membership of their local students’ associations, and this public poll shows there is no appetite for Government involvement in such processes,” says NZUSA co-President David Do.
Mr Do is of course also the former Chair of the Princes St Labour Branch.
But turning to what he says, here is the hypocrisy. It is purely due to Government involvement that student associations are currently compulsory.
Without an Act of Parliament allowing them to be compulsory, student associations would have no more ability to be compulsory, that Neighbourhood Watch. Their compulsion comes from the Government.
An independent public opinion poll revealed 77% of respondents felt that students should decide the structure of membership of their associations, compared with just 17% that believed it was the Government’s decision, and 6% who were unsure.
George Orwell’s 1984 characters would be proud. Instead of asking the public whether student associations should have compulsory membership, or even asking whether students at a particular instistution should have the power to make their association compulsory, they asked a meaningless question about “decide the structure of membership”.
For NZUSA to claim this as demonstrating that there is an overwhelming majority opposed to Heather Roy’s bill, is desperate and ridiculous. Their remaining credibility is draining away even faster than student associations are withdrawing their memberships of NZUSA.
I am a 100% supporter of VSM. However if I was polled and asked “Do you think students should determine the structure of membership of their association” I would answer “yes”. In fact I am amazed that NZUSA did not get 100% of people answering yes.
Likewise if you asked who should determine the structure of membership of Federated Farmers – farmers or the Govt, I would answer farmers. If you asked me should a majority of farmers be able to make Federated Farmers compulsory, I would answer no.
The last vestige of compulsory unionism will die early in 2011. It is long overdue.
Tags: NZUSA, Polls, VSM
December 1st, 2010 at 2:55 pm
we destroyed their protests outside Ms Roys office with the help of Mr McCaffery
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 2:58 pm
I await toad, Maggie, bonkers et al to come in and decry that the government is “imposing” voluntary membership.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Let the sun shine on the NZUSA morons to show how inept they are (unfortunaley some of their “leaders” will become Labour politicians in a not so distant future.)
What could be wrong with making the decision to join a voluntary act? Only busybodies like Mr. Do and fellow comrades could support the contrary position.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 3:16 pm
“students should decide the structure of membership of their associations”
Have they conducted a poll of all tertiary students asking whether they want to retain CSM? It would be a simple and I think accurate poll – those that want to retain it will say so stridently, everyone else is a no.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 3:33 pm
” students should decide the structure of membership of their associations”
I would interpret this as meaning voluntary…
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 3:44 pm
I await toad, Maggie, bonkers et al to come in and decry that the government is “imposing” voluntary membership.
The press release already does that:
You can’t script this stuff!
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 3:50 pm
How can they look themselves in the mirror after making the argument that giving students a choice on whether to join the union steals from them the option of having that choice made for them?
It is dizzyingly self-contradictory.
Imagine if some racist made the argument that giving Maori’s the vote takes from them the option of being disenfranchised?
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 4:17 pm
“Students Counter-Protest Against Own Union
NZUSA Protests Crashed By Real Students
“Students across the country have taken to the streets to counter-protest against their own union, in support of Voluntary Student Membership and the Education (Freedom of Association) Amendment Bill,” says ACT on Campus President, Peter McCaffrey.
“The New Zealand Union of Students’ Associations held pro-compulsion rallies but, despite having hundreds of thousands of dollars of students’ money for advertising, were only able to scrape together a dozen protesters in Wellington and couldn’t find ANY Otago students willing to oppose the bill and so didn’t even bother to hold a protest down south.”
“While the NZUSA protesters were mostly NZUSA officials, former officials, staff and other trade unionists, real students crashed the NZUSA rallies and counter-protested in support of the bill.”
“How can students’ associations continue to claim that students are opposed to VSM when their own members are protesting against their position?,” asks McCaffrey.
“Clearly NZUSA are more interested in ensuring their own pockets remain lined with compulsorily acquired student money than actually advocating for the views of students,”
“The VSM bill will give choice back to students and will ensure that students’ associations accurately represent their member’s views.” says ACT on Campus President, Peter McCaffrey.”
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 5:09 pm
I read/heard that 98% (whatever) of students want this union so what is there problem. A 98% participation rate will be great for them .. if their poll was correct of course
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 5:16 pm
This is the best news since sliced bread, I couldn’t be happier.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Doesn’t that poll result support VSM?
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 5:42 pm
This leftie gently asks Kiwibloggers to remember that one goes to University not to learn honesty or even common sense, but to gain a faculty for critical thinking. And even then the failure rate is higher than you would think it should be…
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 6:27 pm
Ah. The old “be nice to them, it’s not their fault that they’re stupid”. I’ll go along with that, but I’m not sure what the excuse of the media is. Are they also stupid? (You don’t need to answer that, the answer is obvious….)
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 6:37 pm
“Do you think students should determine the structure of membership of their association?”
VSM lets students determine the structure of membership of their association – if they don’t join, they are not part of the structure.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 7:49 pm
I think Mr Do would have a lot more credibility on this issue if he made these statements in public while dressed as a penis.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 8:06 pm
But would he DRESS to the left or the right?
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 8:37 pm
You can just imagine that the South argued, “Dang the North fer imposin’ freedom on our slaves, hence removin’ their choice to escape!”
I don’t think it’s the Government’s decision either, yet the Government made it back in the day when they legislated for compulsory membership. This just returns things to a state of nature.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Obsession over small things is always a bad sign.
True democracy would be allowing students to decide. Oh, that’s right, we tried that…
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Yep, true democracy would be allowing students to decide. Whether or not to join a union.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 9:41 pm
Luc – true freedom would be allowing students to decide whether or not to join a union. Democracy is always limited by human rights – we can’t all vote to kill you much as we might like to. And that is as things should be. Sure, student unions aren’t a matter of life and death. But freedom is more important than democracy. Nobody should have the right to vote to force me to join a club I don’t want to join.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 9:44 pm
True democracy is surely being able to take the piss out of the rulers without being shot behind the ear in a grotty cellar.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 9:45 pm
To sum up then, David Do is using a fraudulent poll attempting to justify mandatory, coerced membership of his organisation.
Future leader of the Labour Party we’ve got here; or the Greens at the very least.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 9:49 pm
Luc. True democracy does not involve compelling people to join a political organisation against their will. Even if 99% of people supported compulsory student union membership, the fact that 1% are compelled to join violates the right of that 1% to freedom of association.
Now if the student unions have the 98% support they claim, and I for one seriously doubt that they do, then where is the harm in allowing the 2% that don’t support the student unions to leave…….
unless they know that the level of support they actually have is far less than they claim……
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 10:50 pm
The good news is these people are the hopeful future leaders of the Labour party
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 10:54 pm
There is literally no way of defending compulsory membership without self-contradicting.
Most students want CSM? Well, then you won’t have a problem with people joining under VSM then.
No students would join under VSM? Well, clearly the association has not public mandate.
You can’t point to public support to claim support for compulsion, since the entire case for it involves claiming that no one would join if the association were compulsory.
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Is Luc making a point in a societal sense: e.g. you can’t choose to opt out of NZ society and its government if you’re within its bounds – even if you are opposed to it, choose not to vote, are happy to pay for use of what would be public goods and sort issues or whatever your own way (This example is not well written, but hopefully you get the gist.)?
Vote:December 1st, 2010 at 11:11 pm
No JiveKitty, Luc is a troll. He’s pointing out nothing other than his own stupidity. That’s why he got a bunch of lack lustre responses – we’re bored of this topic.
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 12:08 am
PaulL
Happy to call you out and for you to put your balls on the line. I think I should get ten smacks in before you blink, but let’s see.
Jivekitty, good response. The wankers who want the rule of 1% are fascists, pure and simple.
I just say the students should have the final say, and I don’t understand why some have a problem with that.
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 12:18 am
Stupid things the student unionists say:
1. “CSM has very widespread support”, and yet “few people would sign up to associations under VSM”
2. “the current $90 fee under CSM isnt enough money for people to care about”, and yet “people will be too selfish to give up $90 under VSM”
3. “without CSM Unions wont have the funds to play the roll of advocates”, while advocating for free on the internet
4. “the VSM bill is undemocratic because it was introduced as a private members bill”, but a referendum from ten years ago that polled a student population 99% different to today ought to be perpetually binding?
Jive Kitty, that might be a good point if it wasnt for the fact that students are merely consumers of an education product, not citizens of the Nation of Studentia. How absurd would it be if 51% of Telecom customers voted to force 100% of Telecom customers to join a Telecom Customer Union? For that matter can you name another advocacy group that force all the people it advocates for to be members?
Luc, your side has lost this debate. It is just too obvious to anyone who considers the topic for more than a couple minutes that true freedom of choice cannot exist under compulsion. All you guys have now are the annoying and pathetic bleatings of student politician Labourite sheep. Who do you think that is going to win over?
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 6:47 am
# Luc Hansen (2,191) Says:
December 2nd, 2010 at 12:08 am
I just say the students should have the final say, and I don’t understand why some have a problem with that.
Under VSM Luc, students will have their say.
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 7:05 am
Luc.
If Student Unions existed solely to provide assistance to students, I might have more sympathy with your position.
However, as student unions are, at their core, political organisations, who carry out a number of political acts (such as flag burnings on ANZAC day for example), and seem to exist as a haven for political activists, and usually from the political left, there are a number of people, and I would imagine it is a large number, who are compelled to financially support an organisation they do not wish to be a part of, due to the actions of that organisation.
As to the arguement that you cannot opt out of society, that is a fallacious arguement. Yes, we are all required to pay tax, regardless of wether we agree with the government of the day or not. But we are not compelled to join the National or Labour party should that party be in government.
VSM will make students unions more accountable, and focus them on providing the assitance that students need, rather than being organisations that are routinely hijacked by political extremists who trumpet the fact that they are in charge of the student union as proof of grassroots support.
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 9:53 am
Anyone know (DPF you should) a ball park figure of what one of these polls cost?
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 10:57 am
If the Unions were smart they would have gotten DPF to do the survey. Bind him with client confidentiality
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
David you are unfortunately incorrect that governments are required for student unions to be compulsory. They can be funded out of an additional fee charged by the university as most already do for things like building maintenance and simply have the student union contracted to do these services. This would still actually be technically possible under the new legislation Act/National is passing especially as these general fees are not subject to the fee maxima policy.
[DPF: Yes and there may be a small number of services currently funded by SAs that unis should take over funding of. But if a university decides they should fund student media, social events, clubs and political advocacy then the wrath of hell will descend on them]
Vote:December 2nd, 2010 at 2:48 pm
LOL am a student president, and also a memver of NZUSA and I didn’t know anything about this poll, however I agree the wording of it is misleading and bullshit.
Vote:That poll did not go to the executive body, or all the members, and it really annoys me that our name gets dragged down because of thier actions. And yes before any of you say anything I am aware that many students say that about their associations.