Maori Party schism looks likely

January 19th, 2011 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

One News reports:

A collective from the filed an official complaint against fellow member late last night.

Maori Party President, Pem Bird, says he received a complaint yesterday from Waiaraki MP Te Ururoa Flavell, supported by Te Tai Tonga MP Rahui Katene, and Maori Party co-leaders Dr Pita Sharples and Tariana Turia. …

Bird said the party is seeking an early meeting to try and resolve the issues raised by the complaint and an urgent hui will be held on Friday.

“We have invited Hone Harawira, Te Ururoa Flavell on behalf of the complainants, and the Chair of the Te Tai Tokerau Electorate Council to be present at the hui. It will be chaired by the Party’s co Vice President, Ken Mair. The hui will be private and confidential to enhance the chances of successfully resolving the issues in the complaint,” Bird said.

I’m not sure what Harawira’s game plan is. Sometimes it looks like he is trying to take over the Maori Party and mould it in his own image. Sometimes it looks like he is trying to engineer a split.

It is hard to see how he can be a candidate for the Maori Party at the next election, with his recent actions. If there is a schism, he will take a lot of activists with him.

What will be interesting is whether he stands as an Independent, tries to set up his own Maori Party or becomes the Leader of a hard left party which includes Sue Bradford and Matt McCarten. If he does the latter, then they will get representation in Parliament on the basis of Harawira retaining his seat which is likely. Not sure though that Hone would want to be seen to stand for a party which is not a Maori nationalistic party.

Overall this is pretty good news for the left. One danger however is that a Harawiara led hard left party could attract activists and voters from the Greens, and they can’t afford to drop under 5%.

Hat Tip: Whowuddathort

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61 Responses to “Maori Party schism looks likely”

  1. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    Scrap the racist notion of ethnic seats. This is supposed to be a modern democracy after all.

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  2. MarkF (100 comments) says:

    Surely this schism was entirely predictable on day one of the only racially based party in NZ. Let’s face it they can’t even agree on who represents whom in “Treaty” issues, particularly if they don’t all get what they want! Implosion, can’t think of a better result.

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  3. whowuddathort (15 comments) says:

    I wonder whether it really is good news for the left. If Hone starts a party with Nradford and McCarten then they will take votes from the left.

    What it will also do is make people ask themselves if they want a Labour led government with such a hard left party (led possibly by Hone and or bradford). It will also make people wonder why Labour are suddenly working with someone that they demanded by fired from the Maori party because of his “racists comments”.

    I think it may cause people to fall behind National as they don’t want someone like Hone having too much power.

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  4. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,830 comments) says:

    Don’t be too sure he will retain this seat. He has strong support way up North but the seat is a hell of a lot more than ‘way up North.’

    The Maori Party will retain the seat if they choose the right candidate.

    Leave Harawira with his ratbags to join up with Bradford and McCarten and their ratbags.

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  5. Bryce Edwards (248 comments) says:

    In order to understand the current major schism within the Maori Party, you need to understand the major contradictions within the party and within Maoridom as a whole.

    The Maori Party is a pan-Maori party, and is trying to represent vastly different Maori interests. It has always had a very contradictory voter support base. After all, not all Maori think alike, have the same political views, or the same economic interests. Most importantly, the party has tried to represent the interest of poor Maori and the growing middle income Maori. (But there are other tensions as well).

    This has been a very strong contradiction within the party, and a contradiction that has never been resolved or properly tested. Going into coalition with the National Party has been a small test of that contradiction between poor and rich Maori but it was tempered by the fact that the Maori Party joined a coalition that was already been formed and the coalition’s existence was not reliant on the Maori Party’s support, and thus the party wasn’t the king maker. But if, after the next election, the Maori Party is in a kingmaker position, then there will be huge pressures on that contradiction.

    The party clearly has a left and right. With the right of the party led by the co-leadership of Turia and Sharples. These people are more conservative, more aligned with traditional iwi structures, with aspiration Maori, and quite happy to be in coalition with National.

    The left of the party is obviously led by Harawira, who comes from a more anti-establishment and radical background. Harawira has come to champion the poorer support base of the Maori Party, especially urban working class Maori, who have less to do with traditional iwi and are less enamoured with the National-led Government. There’s a lot of rank-and-file support for Harawira in the party, and obviously even more so in his own electorate.

    Harawira himself has internal contradictions – mostly the tension between his Maori nationalist politics and his more leftish/working class orientation. At times he seems to shift between these quite different ideological principles. And if he was to start a new Left Party with the likes of McCarten and Bradford, he’d essentially need to ditch or downplay his radical Maori nationalism and take up a more leftwing political orientation.

    So currently Harawira is the key person in the Maori Party. Turia and Sharples are heading towards the end of their time in politics. Harawira is positioning himself to take over the party and resolve the contradiction between rich and poor Maori Party voters by forcing the party to take a side. He wants them to choose to be a left or right party, and he obviously wants them to be a left party.

    If he doesn’t win, he will certainly leave the Maori Party, either to be an independent Maori MP for his electorate, or to help build a new Left Party with McCarten and Bradford. Today’s confrontation makes it look like he’s losing the internal battle and will eventually depart.

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  6. Red Sam (122 comments) says:

    “If Hone starts a party with Nradford and McCarten then they will take votes from the left.”

    Labour stopped being a left wing party just after 1984.

    They are a third way centrist-liberal party and the party hierarchy and many of their MPs are out of touch with working class folk. Low wages, unemployment, housing affordability, student debt, dental/health, and the cost of aged care (to name but a few issues) were hardly addressed by Labour while they were in power for nine years. They were more interested in appealing to the middle classes.

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  7. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    bomber bradbury said a month or so ago that things are on track for that social-issues/’hard left’ party…

    ..with their first ‘convention’ being planned for february…

    …this latest move against harawira by his own … wd all fit with that scenario/prediction…

    ..ii reckon such a party is a definite go…

    …(esp as they can hang off harawiras’ seat….and don’t even need 5%…)

    …and harawira has said when previously asked that the greens were his favourites for a coalition partner…

    ..and the development of this party….one speaking for the ignored/sidelined..

    ..can be seen as just a further maturing of mmp…

    ..(and could also free the green party from some of those obligations..

    …and allow them to green-up..)

    ..bring it on…!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  8. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    One danger however is that a Harawiara led hard left party could attract activists and voters from the Greens,

    I would welcome that.

    Firstly, the Greens are finally rid of Bradford, this might be the end of the remaining radical socialist element in the party, and maybe they will return to intelligent advocacy of mainly environmental issues. More sensible middle-class, sandal-wearing save the beaches/forests/whales stuff and development of rail freight stuff that productive people with jobs can get interested in. Less of the dole bludgers’ rights stuff. Maybe. Hey, dreams are free.

    Secondly, the Greens need a scare in the form of a poor election showing. The party is really not what it was when Fitzsimmons, Donald and Tanczos were there. Their official positions are becoming increasingly shrill and pie-in-the-sky. Something needs to spur a round of rot removal.

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  9. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Bryce,

    Your comment about Harawira positioning to take MP leadership. Perhaps that is why [reportedly] Flavell is leading the complaint against Harawira – what is playing out now is the battle for MP leadership between those two personalities.

    If he fails to secure the top spot, Harawira can storm out in a blaze of self-righteousness and join up with Bradford and McCarten. If he defeats Flavell now then he can remain in MP as the ‘leader-elect’ – if the ‘conservative’ arm of MP lose this battle Turia and Sharples might drop out earlier than anticipated.

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  10. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    A hard left party would attract the same level of support as ACT, without a safe seat they will not pass the 5% threshold.

    Having said that I would welcome them, they can only take votes from the Greens, it would be a win/win, no hard left party in the house and no Greens.

    Perfect!

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  11. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    Red sam, I reckon you’ve hit the mark there about working class representation.
    Labour is a party made up of middle class no hopers who really wanted to make it legal for men to dress up as women, and visa versa,we’ve got that now and a working class that no longer has any meaningful work or representation.

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  12. hj (6,712 comments) says:

    It seems to me that the far left use:

    6. Our tikanga determines that :
    We are tangata whenua – we are the hosts for all who visit this country (and hence need to determine immigration policy)
    We have a duty of manaaki manuhiri – we are obliged to look after our guests and ensure they are well-treated and respected.
    And if they decide to stay then they need a good understanding of our tikanga so that we can all live here in harmony.
    We also need a good understanding of our guest’s tikanga so that we know how to look after them properly.

    and
    Kaitiakitanga – inherited responsibilities to take care of all our natural resources including our lands, waters, seas and other taonga
    Margaret Mutu

    to provide a rationale for alignment with Maori nationalists
    http://www.goingbananas.org.nz/…/Going_Bananas_August_07_Maori_Roots_Multicultural_NZ.ppt

    Then there’s (come to think of it) Reading the Maps which talks about a Polynesian economy which is based on co operation and precludes capitalism.

    The fact that mana whenua (with regard to ownership of foreshore and seabed) is an inherited status must be thorny (or you would hope so).

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  13. Bryce Edwards (248 comments) says:

    bhudson – I think you’re right. I was actually a bit surprised to see Flavell ostensibly leading the charge against Harawira. I always saw him as a waverer in the left-right split, but it seems that he’s now choosing a side.

    I wonder how strong Katene’s support for the leadership is. Apparently she is more sympathetic to Harawira’s stance on the Marine and Coastal bill. She’s obviously another waverer, but is likely to be under intense pressure from Turia and Sharples.

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  14. Gooner (995 comments) says:

    Scrap the Maori seats and let’s see how strong Hone’s base (and the Maori Party base) really is.

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  15. hj (6,712 comments) says:

    Phil U said:

    and the development of this party….one speaking for the ignored/sidelined..

    ..can be seen as just a further maturing of mmp…

    ..(and could also free the green party from some of those obligations..

    …and allow them to green-up..)

    ..bring it on…!
    ..
    So perhaps Metira , Catherine, David Clendon, Kevin Hague could go with him as they have expressed the strongest support for the green Party position on the foreshore and seabed and Te tirrtti.

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  16. adze (1,994 comments) says:

    RRM
    Don’t forget Keith Locke, Catherine Delahunty and Metiria Turei are still quite strongly to the left, with a dash of Maori nationalism between the latter two in particular.

    I suspect true “green” thinking will slowly become more mainstream over time. The Greens are becoming more radical left/anti-establishment, which is probably why Harawira is so attracted to them.

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  17. Nigel (515 comments) says:

    It’s an odd thing for Hone to have done, it’s almost like he is trying to stay under the Maori Party umbrella to as close to the election as possible & pull as many away from it as possible when he leaves, surely he’d not be that calculating.

    One thing no one has really commented on is the “regard” Ngapuhi is held by other Maori in NZ as a consequence of the Musket wars, it’d not be a stretch from what I can tell for him to already be on the outer & he’s jumping before he’s pushed.

    I also wonder how much conflict there is between tribes that have settled with the crown & those that haven’t & how that is impacting Maori Party internal politics.

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  18. burt (8,019 comments) says:

    Red Sam said;

    They were more interested in appealing to the middle classes.

    Well it’s worse than that actually. The only decisive things they did were in the parties own (and Helen’s) best interest. They are a self serving dinosaur from the past and really all they are is a popularity machine for a leaders ego.

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  19. hj (6,712 comments) says:

    Here is an example of conflict between environmentalists who represent the general population v’s the Green Party members who see who see Maori as Guardians of the environment:

    ““Where is the good faith relationship?” Metiria asked. “This proposal reduces Maori input into decision making by stripping them of their kaitiakitanga role as stewards of our environment.”
    http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/denial-customary-rights-unacceptable-say-greens

    Eugenie Sage says

    It could be EXCEPT THAT we understand that Ngai Tahu and the Akaroa taiapure management committee are moving quickly to have the taiapure which covers 90% of Akaroa Harbour extended to cover the Dan Rogers area without public consultation.

    Legally you cannot have a dual regime over the same area of sea space i.e. a marine reserve and a taiapure because they are established and managed under different legislation. (A taiapure is a fisheries management tool under the Fisheries Act). If Ngai Tahu is successful in extending the taiapure, it would then be impossible to re-apply for a marine reserve. You can write to Fisheries Minister, Phil Heatley asking him to not extend the taiapure.
    http://blog.forestandbird.org.nz/sea-change-yeah-right/
    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2011/01/18/rubbing-salt-water-in-the-wounds/

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  20. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    Scrap the Maori seats..

    Hold on, didn’t the National Party, aka Labour-lite, promise that?

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  21. adze (1,994 comments) says:

    Actually, if Hone does lose whatever battle is taking place within the Maori Party, he could just simply join the Greens. That might upset a few applecarts…

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  22. Roflcopter (446 comments) says:

    Think back prior to Mana by-election. There was murmurings of a McCarten / Harawira / Other nutters get-together. This is just a continuation and solidifying of that relationship.

    Harawira will go, buddy up with McCarten et al., and there will be another left-wing minor party before the election. All they’ll achieve is a further carve-up of the left vote, it won’t affect the Maori Party in anything other than 1 seat, or of right-wing block at all.

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  23. jims_whare (399 comments) says:

    Reminds me of what an Isreali fella told me once. He said that if you put 6 Jews in a room and ask them an opinion on something you will get 7 different replies.

    The Maori party is kinda like that and because their MP’s are based on electorates rather than on a party list the individuals have a lot more power. The party itself is a lot weaker than say National or Labour.

    It will be interesting to see if the splits continue along tribal lines where each tribe or group of tribes remain loyal to their own – might end up with Maori independent MP’s all wanting a slice of the tax payer’s cake.

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  24. somewhatthoughtful (456 comments) says:

    The new left party can’t come fast enough. Not because i’d vote for them, but because give all the hippies in the greens somewhere to go and allow the greens to actually advocate for the environment. Shock horror, a kiwi green party that lives up to its brand….

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  25. Danyl Mclauchlan (1,066 comments) says:

    Scrap the Maori seats and let’s see how strong Hone’s base (and the Maori Party base) really is.

    While you’re there we could scrap the electorate seat allows list MPs under 5% loophole and see how strong ACTs base really is.

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  26. Nigel (515 comments) says:

    The 5% loophole always seemed to high to me ( 2 seats or 2% seems more fair ), but I’m not convinced ACT’s vote would move alot.

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  27. PaulL (5,983 comments) says:

    Bryce: good analysis.

    Following on from that, and PhilU and RRM, it seems to me that many of the minor parties are finding it very difficult making generational change. ACT found it very hard with the Roger D and Richard P leaving, and got the wobbles last election and brought Roger D back. That was a mistake, if they’d stuck to their guns they’d be in much better shape today. And they had real difficulties choosing between Stephen Franks and Rodney Hide. We’ve seen what Rodney did, not sure how Stephen Franks would have gone in the same situation.

    I see the Greens having difficulty making the change, and these problems in the Maori Party look similarly about succession. Winston First failed to transition, and I doubt United will either.

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  28. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    This may be a blood-letting One thing is for sure, f he is to appeal to his core constituency Hone Harawira will blame everyone else for it – http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/2011/01/harawira-defence.html

    Thnx Lee MWT

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  29. Gooner (995 comments) says:

    Danyl, you might be surprised to read that I agree with that. No party should survive based purely on the electoral system; it should survive on electoral support. But in that process, the playing field should be level which means such things as no election spending limits including broadcasting. Otherwise the two old, tired parties just oligopolise the base.

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  30. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    Is it a problem if he takes the worst of the racist loons with him and leaves behind the ones who want to be practical about building a future? With friends like Hone, who needs enemies…

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  31. Shazzadude (521 comments) says:

    “Don’t be too sure he will retain this seat. He has strong support way up North but the seat is a hell of a lot more than ‘way up North.’

    The Maori Party will retain the seat if they choose the right candidate.

    Leave Harawira with his ratbags to join up with Bradford and McCarten and their ratbags.”

    He would still win comfortably. His reasons for splitting would be looked upon favourably by Maori.

    I expect if this were to happen, there would probably be a deal struck whereby the Maori Party didn’t stand in Te Tai Tokerau, and in return his new party didn’t stand candidates in the other Maori seats, to avoid a split in favour of Labour. I reckon someone like Tame Iti could very well win Waiariki under a Hone brand.

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  32. jaba (2,095 comments) says:

    oooohhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy goddddddddddddddddddd .. Khen Mhair is involved .. how can anything good come out of the meeting with Hone and Khen involved?

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  33. s.russell (1,580 comments) says:

    It would be no surprise if Harawira broke with the Maori Party. But I would be surprised to see him team up with McCarten, Bradford et al.

    The latter just want to use Harawira as their ticket past the 5% threshold (which they know they are unlikely to crack). I’m sure Harawira is smart enough to understand that and won’t want to be their tool.

    If they were smart they would not want anything to do with such a loose cannon as Harawira anyway. If he is their ticket into Parliament, he has them by the short and curlies. And they become his tools.

    This is a really BAD formula for a party.

    I would think too, that if Harawira did team up with McCarten, Bradford et al it would seriously damage his credentials with Maori. Result: a three-way split that might well see Labour retake theTe Tai Tokerau seat. And to add to the fun, the unholy trio might just take enough votes from the Greens to cut them out too…

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  34. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    Will these two join Hone’s new party? Likely.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4554878/Kilbirnie-robbers-grab-2-coins

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  35. georgebolwing (679 comments) says:

    Under MMP, there are clear gains from specialisation: you want to have enough support to have a guarantee of continued representation, but you don’t want to become too large, because you will end up having to make compromises. This allows you to make strong representations to your members/voters that you will remain pure to whatever your core ideology is (the environment, Maori nationalism, xenophobia), while being able to offer a government sufficient votes to be a player in government formation/legislation making. The early experiences of the National/NZ First and then Labour/Alliance coalitions showed that the then Westminster conventions of collective responsibility where not compatible with the requirements of small parties to maintain sufficient separation from the government. Hence Helen Clark’s development of the “agree to disagree” confidence and supply agreements, with minor party leaders given ministerial posts without attendant collective responsibility obligations. John Key has taken this further, and having two support parties with often diametrically opposed views. A National/Maori/ACT/ United Future cabinet would fly apart at its first meeting, but the current Government is remarkably stable.

    So I think we will continue to see a proliferation a small parties, bleeding votes from to two old parties. The trick for National and Labour is to continue to have a compelling value proposition: only a vote for them will truly deliver the government that its supporters really want. The problem is that FPP provided credible threat of electoral annihilation for anyone trying to split off a chunk of support from a major party, but under MPP it is even possible for people like Hone to have a realistic chance of forming a viable small party.

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  36. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    (russel said..)

    “..It would be no surprise if Harawira broke with the Maori Party. But I would be surprised to see him team up with McCarten, Bradford et a..”

    um..!..are you basing that on any semblance of reality..?

    ..there is much mutual respect….and it is a perfect fit….

    ..(you really are whistling that one up outta nutthing…eh..?..

    i mean…don’t let any facts get in the way of your fanciful notions…eh…?..)

    ..and then you run with who is whos’ ‘tool’…

    and..

    ‘I would think too, that if Harawira did team up with McCarten, Bradford et al it would seriously damage his credentials with Maori…”

    and what do you base that pile of bullshit on…?

    …once again just plucked from that orifice closest to the back of yr knees….?…eh…?

    …and a country mile from the political/personal realities of the situation…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    [DPF: too much personal abuse - 10 demerits]

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  37. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    and another racist jibe from (hiding behind a fake name) manolo…

    ..it must be a day ending in ‘y’…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    [DPF: Comment is abuse only - 10 demerits]

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  38. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***kowtow (852) Says:

    January 19th, 2011 at 11:06 am
    Scrap the racist notion of ethnic seats. This is supposed to be a modern democracy after all.***

    Indeed, if National lose because the Maori Party, or a new party with Harawira, align with Labour it will serve them right for preserving ethnic seats. Under First Past the Post, there is a basis for them, but it’s crazy that they are still there under MMP.

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  39. dave (986 comments) says:

    Hone is more of a nationalist than a left winger. A left wing party and the current Maori Party does not fit into either. Subsequently Hone is not a “fit” for the Maori Party.

    From 2009:

    If Hone believes he is not accountable to the Maori Party or its leadership, or the Party caucus in Parliament, then clearly he has placed himself outside the party,” said Professor Winiata.

    “We require our MPs to work as a team, and Hone clearly has difficulty with this, given his words and deeds, which have had a devastating effect on his colleagues and the party as a whole.

    What’s changed – apart from the rest of the Maori parliamentary Party finally lodging a complaint because they don’t like the independent Maori voice within their own ranks because this voice has gone so public it is impossible to shut down without such a complaint.

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  40. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    A couple of years ago, just before the election, Labour-lite was saying this, as reported by the NBR:
    The National Party has confirmed it wants to see the eventual abolition of the Maori seats in Parliament.

    The party today released its Maori Affairs and Treaty Negotiations policies, promising to “devote fresh energy and leadership” to advancing Treaty settlements.

    It wants to settle all historic claims by 2014, a deadline it has set in the past.

    “Linked to the settlement of historic Treaty claims is our policy on the Maori seats,” Party leader John Key said.

    “At the conclusion of the settlement of historic Treaty claims, National will begin a constitutional process to abolish the Maori seats. National wishes to see all New Zealanders on the same electoral roll.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/national-confirms-policy-abolish-maori-seats-35774

    Today there is absolute silence coming from the National Party, a group of liars and cowards.

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  41. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    lol dave – Hone has a safer seat than most MPs – so it seems strange that you claim he doesn’t belong in the Maori Party. Also – the Maori Party’s voting record from 05-08 was 90% aligned with the Greens (far more so than any other party). Are you saying that the Greens aren’t on the left.

    Some very strange ideas seem to be popular around here.

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  42. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    Manolo, read your quote more carefully.

    “The National Party has confirmed it wants to see the eventual abolition of the Maori seats in Parliament.
    It wants to settle all historic claims by 2014, a deadline it has set in the past.”

    At the conclusion of the settlement of historic Treaty claims, National will begin a constitutional process to abolish the Maori seats.”

    Start complaining about this in 2015.

    whowuddathort – if Hone wins leadership of the Maori Party it will be more interesting.

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  43. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    P.G., I admire your staunch and strong support for Key’s government, but let me ask you: have you heard recently about the abolition of the Maori seats from Key or any Labour-lite leader?

    [DPF: You don't understand MMP much do you. National did not get 50%. It got 58 seats, and did deals with 3 parties so a Govt could be formed. It agreed with the Maori Party that it would not attempt to implement its policy of ending the Maori seats if they did not attempt to implement their policy of entrenching them]

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  44. whowuddathort (15 comments) says:

    Phil Goff said this, this morning on Breakfast:

    “Goff told Breakfast that Labour had coalition partners. Goff told Breakfast that Labour had coalition partners. He said Labour would talk to the Maori Party if it was ‘in the interests of New Zealanders to do so’. Goff would not, however, talk to Hone Harawira, saying there were ‘lots of things I fundamentally disagree with him on’.”

    So if Goff needs Hone’s Party (if he forms one) to govern after the election he obviously wont become Prime Minister or form government. Or will he forget he said that?

    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/goff-reveal-labour-s-tax-plan-4001739

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  45. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    No Manolo, I don’t expect to hear them repeating what they have already said. They could pop it in to election policies or conversations this year – but look more closely at what they say for the 2014 election to see if they intend following through.

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  46. RightNow (6,839 comments) says:

    Goff will conveniently find common ground with Hone if it helps cobble together a government.

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  47. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    RN – I’d bank on that too. He’s obviously trying to isolate Hone – but Hone’s seat is safe. He’s going to be around for a while i’d say.

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  48. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..[DPF: Comment is abuse only - 10 demerits]..

    and what is this..?

    Will these two join Hone’s new party? Likely.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4554878/Kilbirnie-robbers-grab-2-coins

    as consistant as ever..eh..”?

    and how about the tirades of personal slander/abuse heaped on me yesterday..?

    ..a veritable fucken firestorm..

    ..and not a fucken peep from you..eh..?

    ..utter bullshit..!..farrar..

    denerit fucken away to yr fucken hearts’ content…eh..?

    yr censorship policies have always been a one-eyed fucken joke..

    ..that piece of crap redbaiter..can say anything he fucken likes..

    has he got something on you..?

    ..is this a day ending in ‘y’..?

    ..if you want me to fuck off digger…i’ll fuck off..

    ..recall:..you fucken emailed me telling me you had my email wrong..and you had fixed it now..

    ..and you fucken demerit me for calling bullshit on what someone has said..

    ..and making the case for that…

    ..demerits..

    ..and i react to manolos’ vile racial slurs..

    ..that he trots out every fucken day/opportunity..

    ..and you do/say fucken nothing about them..farrar

    you are a fucken joke farrar..

    ..and i repeat..

    ..you want me to fuck off..

    just fucken say so..

    ..you don’t even need to demerit/]..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  49. grumpyoldhori (2,416 comments) says:

    Manolo, not to bright on the Maori seats are you, fine dump the Maori seats and make it that Maori cannot vote on the general role unless they pass an educational test.
    Then wait for the explosion.

    If they only dump the Maori seats without agreement from Maori the majority of Maori with the exception of those uncles who belong to National will vote for the Maori party, want the Maori party as king maker just dump the hori seats.

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  50. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    i did not retaliate to any of the abuse heaped on me yesterday…

    ..and have gone out of my way to counter their abusive rants with evidence..humour..even..

    ..and if you are going to do nothing about that abuse heaped on me…

    ..and so arbitrarily hand them out to me…

    …i can’t contribute to yr blog/hits under those circumstances..

    ..your call..

    ..eh..?

    i haven’t fucken been here for nine months…

    …it’d be easy to just continue that..

    …as i said..

    ..yr call…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    [DPF: I've handed out demerits to around eight people today. The rules apply to all]

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  51. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Farrar does nothing like live up to the principles he espouses. The point of this blog is not to discuss and find the truth together, but to put forward a world-view that benefits the eye atop the pyramid. DPF is a tool of the global elite – and he knows it.

    [DPF: Off topic]

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  52. grumpyoldhori (2,416 comments) says:

    Dave, bang on about Hone, he is not a left winger and as you said more of Nationalist.
    Dear oh dear, pakeha experts on we the Nga Puhi, we in the Nga Puhi see some Maori even join the Nats as tokens to be dragged around meetings to show the Nats have a couple of tokens.

    Some hori from a central iwi beating Hone, excuse me why I roll with laughter, Hone is safe in that seat for as long as he wants for unlike some others horis in politics he puts Maori first

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  53. Viking2 (11,261 comments) says:

    HMM, well grumpyhori please explain to us why Maori should be put first. You are all a mix up of various brown and black races from around the Pacific. You were not here first although you do try to perpetuate that myth and you lived in squalid, mud floor huts with a limited viable food source that was short of meat protein which you supplemented by eating one another. In the process of that hunting and gathering of human flesh for protein you also indulged in the other favourite sport of rape.
    Now that we have allowed you the advantages of education and the ability to earn a living as far as I can tell the only bit that you have given up has been eating one another.
    And you want to be first.
    Well Bless your soul.

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  54. grumpyoldhori (2,416 comments) says:

    Viking2 Good god, you believe those celtics whom the Maori ate were here first ?
    Wait on you are a visitor to NZ are you not, not native born, it does show dear boy

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  55. thedavincimode (6,589 comments) says:

    V2

    “eating one another”

    goh

    “whom the Maori ate were here first”

    Off topic. This is not a cullinary thread.

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  56. Viking2 (11,261 comments) says:

    Sorri grumpi, no question others were here before you mixed up lot of Chinese, Taiwanese, and other various breeds including Spanish and Portuguese arrived. You just don’t want to concede to the history because that would men you lose all your so called mana.

    As for me being a visitor. well not really. we have been here since 1856 and my grandkids are 9th generation Kiwi’s and what’s more we know without doubt the mothers and fathers of most of them. We can also trace the paper work back in some of the families to the early 1700′s. You can never do that.
    A wise Maori lady once told me that being Maori meant that you nearly always knew who your mother was but that wasn’t the case with the fathers. Sadly it still isn’t.

    And actually we (the whiteman/ English) came out at the request of the 40 Chief’s who feared for their futures once the Nga Puhi got their hands on guns and the French got control. That contrary to all the rest of the myths was the reason for the Treaty. They feared being wiped out by the gun and the Frenchmen

    Seems most of you never learnt that.
    You should be grateful we were so merciful. had it been 50 years before you would have been treated like they did the Palestinians etc. Then you would have something to complain about. Oh maybe not; there wouldn’t have been any left except as slaves.

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  57. Viking2 (11,261 comments) says:

    thedavincimode; they didn’t like the whiteman cause he was too salty! Used to like breast meat and drying the heads for their stockades.
    In fact Te Ruaprauha went to the Sth Island to capture slaves and tattoo them just so that when their faces healed they would bang them on the head and dry the heads to sell to the various traders. Thats how most of these heads travelled the world. Now they want them back.

    Sold them but actually they were just on loan. Yeh Right.

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  58. Viking2 (11,261 comments) says:

    Nosh up on top of the hill Culturally Offensive.

    Reported on tv1 by a breathless reporter talking to a “Local” who just loved having a camera in his face. Followed by that Countdown cook running a barbie at the beach in Mission Bay.

    Next step Ngati Whatua will be complaining about barbies on the foreshore.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4556279/Mt-Taranaki-summit-cook-up-tapu-offence

    Barbecues and graffiti on top of Mount Taranaki have outraged Taranaki DOC boss Phil Mohi.

    “The act of cooking over an ancestor is tapu – it’s something that you just don’t do,” he said.

    Mr Mohi was responding to the story in yesterday’s Taranaki Daily News which reported that a group of Christian climbers had carried a barbecue and couch to the summit of Mt Taranaki for an “epic” barbecue.

    Guess Mr Mohi forgot about cooking amongst his ancestors.
    You know where they were roasted for eating.Cooked under I suppose and not over.

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  59. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Could Hone “Shit Bro” Harawira really team up with Matt “2.8%” McCarten and Sue “Sour-faced Maoist” Bradford to create a new leftist party to leech votes off the MP and Greens with Martyn “Fuckwit” Bradbury skilfully weaving it all into one cohesive element behind the scenes?

    My response is this.

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  60. grumpyoldhori (2,416 comments) says:

    Viking2 Interesting, I took part in a DNA trial that looked at how close Polynesians in the pacific are to each other, nope, no Han Chinese blood.

    What scientific proof do you as a visitor from the UK have that other races were in NZ before we hori ?
    No, not some bloody fairly tale ftom the bible.

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  61. Right of way is Way of Right (1,129 comments) says:

    So Hone’s idea of consensus is to make sure everything is done his way? Most people with that sort of mentality are called dictators, or just dicks!

    I cannot beleive he would rather be a part of a vocal minority achieving nothing, than part of the government actually doing something. In that regard both he and Sue Bradford are cut from the same cloth!

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