Goff caught by his own rhetoric
February 22nd, 2011 at 7:00 am by David FarrarThe TV polls have shown around 60% are against National’s plans to sell part-stakes in some SOEs.
Frankly I thought that was a pretty giood result for a policy which for the last 12 years has been ruled off limits as it is meant to be lethal political poison. The more important indicator was that National’s vote remained high.
Yesterday the polls also showed 60% against Labour’s policy of a tax cut for every NZer by making the 1st $5,000 tax free. Now tax cuts are normally very popular, so it says something about how badly you stuffed up (no way to pay for it) by getting 60% of NZers against having a tax cut.
And Goff’s response to the 60% opposition? He said that those 60% were not knowledgeable about their plan. This 24 hours after he yelled:
Labour says it’s not surprised by the result.
“It shows Kiwis are two-to-one against John Key’s programme,” says party leader Phil Goff.
“Kiwis know that this is bad for them as taxpayers and it’s good for foreign investors. They don’t want it.”
So 60% against a National policy is because Kiwis know it is bad for them, but 60% against a Labour policy is because they are not “knowledgeable”.
Labour’s tax cut for everyone policy was meant to be their big circuit breaker. Instead it has fizzled.
Tags: Asset Sales, Phil Goff, Polls, tax cuts
February 22nd, 2011 at 7:08 am
Kiwis know that this is bad for them as taxpayers and it’s good for foreign investors.
When a politician speaks as if it’s on behalf of everyone it really grates.
Goff doesn’t have a clue what most Kiwis know, and he is not our supreme spokesperson.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 7:16 am
22/2 GENERAL DEBATE (not up yet):
Ouch Libya. I suspect Gaddafi’s flight is a rumour, although if Tripoli got surrounded, he’d be toast, and might run. Interesting to note the several cabinet ministers and generals resigning because of the excessive violence against protestors.
This is now looking like a truly international phenomenon along the lines of 1848-1900s and the Soviet states collapse starting with Hungary in late 20th C. If Libya does throw off its dictator we can expect the dominoes to really strat falling, as muslims genuinely now see they have the power to overthrow these fat leeches ruining their lives and oppressing their societies.
As Thucydides says, “society is three meals away from anarchy.” Unemployment and poverty: the nemesis of all dictators.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 7:21 am
“He said that those 60% were not knowledgeable about their plan.”
So basically he’s saying we’re too thick to understand proposed tax cuts after they have been explained? You definitely have the knack of resonating with the voters Phil.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 7:38 am
Phil says this is very fair because all kiwis get the first $5000 tax free.
I find 5k policy very un-Labour like, and had national introduced this you would have heard Goff bemoaning that this was tax cuts for the rich .
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 7:55 am
The only thing I am not knowledgeable about with Phil’s tax cuts is how is he going to afford them. What will the top tax rate be? what level will the envy tax cut in? At what level will Phil decide that we are rich pricks?
Phil – answer the questions and make us knowledgable about your unaffordable tax cuts – or was this the policy you release from the safety of opposition in full knowledge that you know you will never get the opportunity to implement such ill-considered policy.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:00 am
Goff has the charisma of a stick insect. His opinion is worth absolutely nothing.
Vote:The sooner he’s rolled out, the better for the comrades. So, please keep him longer.
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:04 am
So if I have this straight:
1. A clear majority of voters are against National’s plan to sell down public assets. This is a good result for National.
2. A clear majority of voters are against Labour’s proposed tax cuts. This is a bad result for Labour.
Leaving aside the rather obvious way in which 1 and 2 conflict with each other, aren’t both asset sales and tax cuts central planks of National policy? Apparently, the voters decisively reject both planks. Best focus the election campaign on shots of Key smiling and waving, by the sound of it…
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:05 am
For Labour to survive, Goff’s gotta go.
The $5k tax-free threshold I’m neither here nor there on, but at least that’s easily reversable by legislation. Selling off state owned assets to foreign investors? Not so much.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:09 am
goff was good on breakfast television..
that’s two good outings in a row..
..seven days..and now this one..
i dunno if he has had any media training..
..but goff seems more relaxed/at ease in that environment…
..and he’s canned that previous advice..that he must smile at all times..(thank goodness..!)
..and there seems to be a corresponding change in key..
..whereas he was relaxomatic…he appears to be becoming more uptight…authoritarian even..
..and as the last week or so has shown..
..is also prone to major cock-ups…
..and telling all those different blame-stories about the bmw’s …
..also signals a subtle..yet telling..change in perceptions of him…
..his ‘honest-john’ persona has taken a bit of a hammering..
..and when watching him say something…
..you can’t help but wonder if that will change tomorrow…
..all in all..the election year has started well for goff/labour….
…less so for key/national..
..and that goff will now be appearing weekly on breakfast television will also help….
..key has just had two plus years of weekly kneck-rubs from paul henry…
..this year will be different…
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:10 am
Phil says this is very fair because all kiwis get the first $5000 tax free.
In what sense would Phil be wrong about that?
I find 5k policy very un-Labour like, and had national introduced this you would have heard Goff bemoaning that this was tax cuts for the rich.
“Had National introduced this?” Well, I dunno, maybe right after they re-introduce compulsory unionism. Seriously, are you on something? There’s a reason National’s interest in tax cuts is restricted to the upper rates, and it has a lot to do with who their constituency is. Likewise, Labour’s interest in the lower rates.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:19 am
Everyone knows the $5000 has to be paid for as the public nervously wait for the level the envy tax kicks in to pay for this and the GST free veges – for all those who are too lazy to grow their own. Labour + tax is a bad combination. People do not trust Labour on tax. On the privatisation while 60% may be against it, the policy does not hit their pockets the way Labour’s tax plan does. And I assume “people’s” assets sales will reach well into the community. John Key will devise a plan that potentially makes everyone shareholders including welfare recipients.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:20 am
If you wanted to spin the $5k tax free as tax cuts for the rich, it could be done very easily.
Something along the lines of “…yes but this applies to people earning over $100k, and they don’t need the $5k tax free. It should be $10k tax free for everyone making less than $80k.” Or something along those lines.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:21 am
@tvb
“John Key will devise a plan that potentially makes everyone shareholders including welfare recipients.”
No plan needed. Everyone is already a shareholder.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 8:42 am
So would 60% of the nz public be opposed to the following question:
Would you support the partial sale of some SOE’s if the proceeds of those sales were being put in to further NZ public infrastructure (Hospitals, Schools) ?
One would think the response would be a tad different.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:08 am
David, I heard you make this point on ZB with Larry Williams.
When are you going to really give that silly Pagani woman the sort of serve she deserves for her ignorance?
For a “commentator” she has the most appalling lack of ability to think through issues and needs to be called on some of the most obvious ones.
Vote:Classic was the price of milk which she claimed was low in Oz and UK because there is no GST on it there. Total Bull. The fact is that the domestic price mechanism in Australia is cross subsidised from export returns as a structural thing and has been for at least 20 years, while in the UK there are still significant public subsidies directly on domestic milk production but also on agriculture generally. These far outweigh any tax influence.
February 22nd, 2011 at 9:19 am
Its good that 60% understand Goofs dumb arse promise and that we tax payers cant afford it.
Sad the same dont understand the partial sale of SOEs.For those who dont
1. We have a small stock exchange with not many shares on offer.
2. We need to save more in other than property.
3. Buying shares in SOEs give an opportunity to participate in economic growth
4. The Gumint will still own 51% so has control over the companies.
5. The Gumint can put in place limits on overseas ownership so the nasty slit eyes yellow dogs cant get control
6. Gen X and Y need to provide for their retirements There will be no Super when they get there.
7.Kiwisaver providers need more NZ entities to invest in.
I may have missed some but really folks it aint the big bad boogy its made out to be Only the Socilaists/Communists ared making the usual BS noise about it.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:38 am
Actually, I’m worried that Goff is so weak that Labour will go into freefall and there will be a mass defection to other parties – just as happened to National in 2002. The big winner from that would be Winston, and ironically, this might actually help Goff gain power (though he’d still need a lot of luck to stop National/Act winning an outright majority between them).
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:39 am
Philu Goff was terrible on Breakfast this morning. He’s like one of those dolls you pull the cord on and they start talking except his cord must be about 10 kilometres long! The guy just doesn’t know when to shut up and he just constantly throws out negative comments. I know its the oppositions job but he is doing it to much. For example when Coran asked him about his poor oll rating he immediately said well at least it didn’t go down like John Key’s. What a pathetic response!
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:39 am
“..4. The Gumint will still own 51% so has control over the companies…”
a tenuous ‘control’ at best…
“..5. The Gumint can put in place limits on overseas ownership so the nasty slit eyes yellow dogs cant get control..”
no they can’t..trade deals prohibit such restrictions…
“..6. Gen X and Y need to provide for their retirements There will be no Super when they get there…”
this is the myth currently being peddled by rightwingers..to justify cuts/dismantling..
there are probably other myths you believe/peddle also..eh..?
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/ten-myths-about-welfare/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:44 am
“..when Coran asked him about his poor oll rating he immediately said well at least it didn’t go down like John Key’s. What a pathetic response!..”
really..
i thought it was quite pertinant to note that key is fast losing popularity…
..and an 8% drop in a month…
..shows a trajectory that wd be worrying many in national..(those with a brain..eh cunningham..?..)
..so goffs’ response was entirely appropriate…
..and don’t forget…helen clark once had both the lows of goff..and another time the heights of key…
it is the pattern/trajectory which counts at this time..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
..
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:48 am
“..The fact is that the domestic price mechanism in Australia is cross subsidised from export returns as a structural thing and has been for at least 20 years,..”
so why not do that here..?
..instead of just constantly screwing/profiteering all over the locals..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:48 am
A cord doll is a good description, far too much petty political parroting.
I know its the oppositions job but he is doing it to much.
Crying wolf far too often is counter productive – it comes across more like whimpering weasel.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:49 am
The Greens have a policy of making the first $10,000, rather than $5,000, tax free. But unlike Labour, they have said how they will pay for it – through a Capital Gains Tax.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:56 am
Philu it is one poll so I think it is a bit of a stretch to say he is fast losing popularity. Besides just look at Goff’s popularity. He has been out and about for a long time and he can’t even make double figures! The public don’t like stupid negative responses like that. He needs to stand tall and show some backbone rather then just coming up with a response that makes him sound like he is deflecting the issue. His rant about not being on Breakfast was just as weak. Yeah Phil thats the reason why you have no support (sounds like e Tui advert!). The way he talks on that show it is probably better for his ratings if he doesn’t appear on it!
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 9:58 am
“The Greens have a policy of making the first $10,000, rather than $5,000, tax free. But unlike Labour, they have said how they will pay for it – through a Capital Gains Tax.”
Thank goodness you will never have the chance of implementing it Toad.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:01 am
Toad
How do you plan on paying for the huge benefit increases you will be giving parasites and bludgers?
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:06 am
I agree with a tax free amount for lower earnings.
However, this is small bikkies.
We should really be looking at ways of growing the NZ economy – not tinkering with tax rates/thresholds.
How bout a national project to build roads? Make a law where we can import chinese labour at chinese rates, ship ‘em all in, setup work camps, build our roads, then send them home.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:08 am
progressive tax-system.(remember.the british tories have just kicked the rate up to 83%…)
…capital gains tax…(excluding family home..)
..transaction tax…
(how is that for starters..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:10 am
“.(remember.the british tories have just kicked the rate up to 83%…)”
You still pushing that lie Phool?
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:14 am
(sigh..)
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/middle-britains-tax-rates-could-rise-to-83the-rate-that-labour-levied-on-britains-top-earners-before-1979/
“…Moderately high earners to suffer most – says Institute for Fiscal Studies analysis.
Nearly a million people will see their tax rates soar as the government’s austerity package kicks in this spring – potentially to as high as 83%.
Analysis from the Institute for Fiscal Studies today reveals that changes in April will drag 750,000 people into the 40% tax bracket.
Meanwhile, little-publicised tax credit cuts will push the marginal rates of 175,000 working parents up above 70%.
In theory, effective tax rates in Middle Britain could reach 83% – the rate that Labour levied on Britain’s top earners before 1979…”
the point being that taking that..or near it..as a benchmark..
we have quite a bit of room to move..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:14 am
He was worse on One News talking about how 60% of New Zealander’s hadn’t been given the [approved] facts and that the “truth” was the policy was fair. No sense of entitlement there.
And what is it about the left’s new found xenophobia over foreign investment? So is their position that poor foreign immigrants should be welcomed with open arms but foreign investment is the devil’s work?
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:17 am
Careful Phool, you have been exposed as a liar over at frogblog, it seems that the links you provide as ‘proof’ are actually nothing of the sort.
Mind you…..I was impressed by the hissy fit you had when you were exposed as a bullshitter, seem that even the Greens think you are a pathological liar.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:19 am
the sociopathic-liar projects..yet again..
as he lies/dissembles all the time..
he naturally assumes others do also…
this is the essence of projection..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:27 am
Phil Goff has been a politician for so long, saying so many different things and doing so much mock-outrage, that he’s lost his mind. Like when you say a word over and over until it loses it’s meaning.
But anyway, forget about Phil. He’s the past. Start looking at the current government – they’re the ones stuffing our future now.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:34 am
Dear Phil – the Nats’ best friend.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:39 am
you are really one sick fuck..aren’t you..
you just come here every day..and make up lie after fucken lie…
..with never a link/evidence to ‘support’ yr lie..
i..always provide links/evidence..
you are a total fool…really..eh..?
and this is yr life..eh..?
things quiet on the used car lot..?
oh..hang on..you got fired from there..eh..?
..couldn’t sell..eh..?
..and you are working in the pawn-shop industry now..aren’t you..
..a mix of loaning and collecting..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 10:39 am
The problem with Labours promises is that they haven’t been costed, no cost benefit analysis. The reason for this is that Labour is berefit of an economics expert. Goff has served in this capacity in the past but was really a rubber stamp boy to Douglas’ failed experiment in reforming New Zealands economy.
Vote:With the polls out showing Labour totally in the doldrums it would not be unreasonable to claim that Labour will be stuck in the trenches for quite some time ( +9 years).
February 22nd, 2011 at 11:03 am
History could suggest that Labour have more problems than having a leader who is past his expiry date. The British Liberal Party was surpassed by the Labour Party in the 1920′s & has struggled to remain relevant to voters since then. It is not beyond possibility that the NZ Greens could eat into the 30% hardcore support that Goff & Labour still hold. It only has to happen once & Labour is cut bread.
What a fragmented bunch of troughing no hopers the NZ Left have become.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am
Has Goof explained yet how 42 Labour members outspent 58 National members by over a hundred grand for transport over the last quarter?
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 12:18 pm
LABOUR’S PROBLEM is that no one is going to challenge Goff for the poison chalice of Lab. leadership when its a certain they’re gonna get caned in Nov. They’ll just let him die on that beach, and pick up the flag after Christmas.
The only alternative is, a caucus coup that says to Cunnliffe: take the reigns now to stem the Nov. damage and well all back you thru to 2014. he’d be a fool to agree.
It’s looking a lot like the Long knives of Labour 1990: Lange/Palmer/Moore/Clark. Moore was Pm for 4 weeks I think. The Lab leadership blood-letting will be fascinating.
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Of course Phil’s NEVER sold any assets, has he …
Vote:February 22nd, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Not taxing lower pay and then not having the costs to churn money back to the people you took it off in the first place is actually quite sensible and common in other countries. I am ignoring the question of whether it is affordable. It does say something about Labour’s position that such an election year bribe does not appear to be influencing the general opinion of them.
Ironic – a reasonably sensible policy that people don’t want. I don’t think Labour realise that there is a major undercurrent of dislike hanging over from their 9 year stint of tax and spend. The fact that on the charisma stakes Phil is a very poor second to John doesn’t help.
Vote: