The GOP Field
February 7th, 2011 at 10:00 am by David Farrar
Five Thirty Eight have done this very useful graphical representation of the GOP potential candidates (none have yet formally declared).
The size of each bubble is related to their current chances to win on Intrade. The colours are what region they come from, and the two axises are labelled.
I’ve had the view for a while that Pawlenty could win the nomination, as other candidates get knocked out, and this graph shows he is positioned quite well. Being an insider helps in some regards but if you look like a total insider, then grassroots support may be harder to get.
Romney’s major problem is he is seen as not conservative enough.
Haley Barbour is in a pretty good position also, and could do quite well. Time will tell.
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- Why I don’t like the death penalty
- Republicans take the lead
February 7th, 2011 at 10:13 am
When you look at the options for the GOP then you have to say that their chances of regaining the White House are slim indeed.
When the best they can come up with is Romney, Palin or Huckabee then you just know the deck is stacked against the right.
It might be a case of roll on 2016, the end of the stupid Tea Party and the rise of Chris Christie.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:19 am
Gosh Mr. Taylor, you’re worse than a stuck record with your ignorant bashing of the Tea Party. If the show pony Romney wins the nomination, I hope a third party arises and strips the GOP of any chance of winning. These leftist scum have to be brought to heel, and if that is what it takes, so be it.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:29 am
Fascinating graphic. I remember watching the Clinton nomination round. Slick Willy was a no-one at the time and just rose steadily and came thru.
Huckabee is a nice guy but too soft to be President, too “warm fuzzy.”
Guliani had his shot and counted pull the money; just didn’t have the passion. ya gotta really want it.
Romney is Mormon and I’m just not sure middle America is ready for that (weird underwear and all).
Palin had a good chance, but i think has come across too eager and screechy lately, but a possible VP to pull the Tea Party in.
Gingrich is a good option, but maybe seen as too divisive against Clinton and “of the past.” Also quite old. But he’s one to watch. Very experienced and very acceptable to Repub insiders.
Pataki. I’d watch this candidate, very acceptable on many fronts.
Trump. celebrities do well, and Americans are looking for strong leadership; but inexperienced, and lots of skeletons.
It’ll all come down to the campaigning and who can pull the money. Palin is a very good campaigner, and she learns, don’t write her off yet. She is also the darling of the Tea Party, and the Repubs need this vote.
If someone can form an early alliance with Trump, who pulls out midstream, they’d have the $ sown up, maybe offer him an inside job.
At this early stage (total guessing area) I’d swing towards a Gingrich/Palin conservative option
Vote:Or a Pataki/Palin “let’s try something new/refreshing” option if Repubs are brave. But it’s too early yet.
February 7th, 2011 at 10:31 am
Conservative? Really? R U certain it shouldn’t say Reactionary? Or even radical reactionary? (you know, like Phosphorous when it goes for a swim?)
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:31 am
I like Romney, and think he’d probably make a good president. I worry a bit about the particular ghost in the sky that he worships. But I guess any religion looks pretty stupid if you look closely. Mormons you don’t have to look all that closely…..
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:32 am
Pawlenty went on tour for his book Courage to Stand, and as of January 18, his book had reached #1,979 on Amazon.com’s list of bestsellers. Pawlenty calls himself a social conservative. In his extended interview with Jon Stewart on The Daily Show he said he thinks United States Social Security and Medicare need to be cut to balance the federal budget. He opposes abortion and thinks the United States Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade wrongly. He opposes same-sex marriage. He would reinstate “Don’t ask, don’t tell” should he become president. Answering a question from talk radio host Bryan Fischer, he replied, “… I have been a public supporter of maintaining Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and I would support reinstating it as well”.
Sounds like an idiot.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:32 am
2012 is a poisoned/losers chalice…
..whoever gets it has sfa chance of knocking obama off…
..and that will be the only chance they get…
..so the question should be framed:..
‘who will step forward to be the stooge/sacrificial lamb..?’
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:34 am
Where’s Bobby Jindal of Louisiana?
Vote:Can we accept a Third Bush? (Florida). Dynasty material.
February 7th, 2011 at 10:37 am
That would be Juniper Bush: “Bring forth Barry”.
Palin and the Tea Party have done the dirty deed on the Republican Party as far as Prez is concerned.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:38 am
“..Conservative? Really? R U certain it shouldn’t say Reactionary? ..”
regressive is the new term for those who are not progressives….
..(ahem..!..i coined it yesterday..or the day before.)
the progressives vs the regressives….
(it does have a certain ring to it…eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Do we think Obama will actually get the Democrat nomination? Not a given. The Saudis may not give him as much money again.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:39 am
“Sounds like an idiot.”
Gosh, the Progressives have arrived with their usual in depth analysis. Stuck deep in your “liberal” rut, and fed rubbish by corrupt media sources, you just do not know how things are changing in the real world, do you?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:40 am
Why is it that religion is such a big part of the US Presidency, one would have thought that in 2011 a persons religious beliefs are irrelevant.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:41 am
like..rebaiter is a regressive…eh..?
we can all agree on that…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
[DPF: Warning - not on topic]
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:43 am
Either Pawlenty or Romney should clinch the Republication nomination to face the (false) Messiah in November 2012. Whatever the rumblings within the Democratic Party, that nest of progressivism is bound to choose Obama again.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:43 am
“one would have thought that in 2011 a persons religious beliefs are irrelevant”
In Cambridge used car yards, that’s probably true Mr. Taylor, but in places where morality and individual rights triumph over cloying Progressive government and knuckle dragging unawareness of reality, people cling to their religion and guns, and with people like you around, its such a necessary balance. Even Barak had to declare his christianity.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Romney’s major problems are that he has flip-flopped on key policies and that the healthcare system he implemented in Massachusetts has been a mess and is widely regarded as the precursor to Obamacare.
In short, he’ll be useless in arguing with Obama when the latter can simply point to what he’s done and say “me too”.
But the key thing to note here is that at this stage you just can’t tell. Like iMP I remember watching a godawful debate in January 1992 between seven Democrat contenders for that Presidential nomination, including Clinton, and thinking they had no show against Bush. The office jokes the next day were about “the seven dwarfs” and Clinton did not stand out in any way.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:46 am
It shoud be, but is not. Religion plays a fundamental role in life of many Americans and presidential candidates, and politicians in general, toe the line very carefully.
A few decades too early for the United States to elect its first atheist president.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:47 am
So Redbaiter, let’s see if I understand this.
You and only you can see the truth, those of us who do not swallow religious crap or believe that everybody should be running around with guns has been brainwashed by the left?
You really do live in a strange dream world Russell.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Ah… No. Much as I appreciate the way Christie handles the media and his blunt responses on getting NJ out of its financial hole, he’s not going to play well in the rest of the US on things like gun control. Even the Democrats have given up on that in the last twenty years. It’s a non-starter.
As for the Tea Party – like your references to healthcare you’ve been corrected on this many times but still cling to this silly soundbite, driven I assume by the leftist attack line that it’s religiously driven (which is the usual Democrat attack line on any US right-winger), which is not what surveys have shown. Aside from this, the Tea Party is the reason the GOP has come back from the dead. They’re also the reason the GOP has actually shown a spine on small but important symbols like earmarks, and if the GOP does not do the business (or at least be seen to be trying) the Tea Party will be even more relevant in 2012 than they have been to date.
Honestly, if you don’t have any inkling of what America is like culturally there’s little point in trying to opine on its politics. You just end up looking ignorant.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:55 am
The problem with the GOP is Palin. She has a high profile but that pulls the spotlight away from other candidates that would do a better job. At the same time, she will send moderate swing voters to the democrats.
The GOP will need to reduce her influence without alienating her support, but given the nature of the tea party, that could be difficult, but who else could they vote for?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:59 am
“those of us who do not swallow religious crap or believe that everybody should be running around with guns has been brainwashed by the left?”
Basically that’s it Mr Taylor. Religion has always been one of the biggest obstacles to Marxism so it had to be destroyed. If you want to help the cultural Marxists, you attack Christianity and repeat their lies about religious people, which is what leftists like you and Pete George do.
The Marxists always know that they will never win the war in the streets if people have guns. Therefore their second objective is the removal of this obstruction. Just like Hitler and Stalin removed all the guns before they commenced their genocide.
Because you are an unprincipled liar like most used car salesmen, you constantly accuse me of being a bible basher. I am not religious. I don’t own a bible and have not even read the book. I merely acknowledge the goodness of Christianity and the advantages of that sector of society over amoral cultural Marxists like you and Phil Ure for example. So I tolerate and encourage the Christians because I know they are the best antidote to the Marxists.
Shallow thinking idiots like you give the left their beach heads in our society.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:59 am
Obama is a shoe in if Palin is on the ticket. She does not have the intellect or quickness of thought to survive both Primaries and election campaigns before she is horribly exposed.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Redbaiter
Has it ever crossed your angry little mind that what you propose is no better than the communists you detest?
You want to control the lives of everybody, you want to give the bible bashers (of which you are one despite the repeated denials) the right to tell the rest of us how to live, you want to have our streets awash with gun loving red necks and you want to silence those who disagree with you.
And you do all of it in the third person.
Just relax Russell, chill out and wait for the nurse to come and change your incontinence pants.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:06 am
This is a great video. It nails the ignorance and bigotry of the Palin haters as perfectly as I have ever seen. Just so bitingly accurate, you can see every attribute of these sheep like morons so clearly.
http://truebluenz.wordpress.com/2011/02/05/sarah-palin-haters-nailed-so-accurately/
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:09 am
Tom Hunter
If you believe that Palin and the Tea Party will do anything other than assure the Kenyan of another term then you are the ignorant one.
As for healthcare, you have not corrected anything, what you have offered is the usual bullshit from those who think that in a modern western society it is perfectly acceptable for a percentage of your population to be denied effective medial care.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:09 am
“You want to control the lives of everybody, you want to give the bible bashers (of which you are one despite the repeated denials) the right to tell the rest of us how to live, you want to have our streets awash with gun loving red necks and you want to silence those who disagree with you.”
You just keep repeating this weak lie Mr. Taylor. You must think you can fool most people as easily as you can fool a wooden head you’re selling a Corolla full of bog.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:10 am
Given how badly these idiots were burned by Obama in 2008, they’ll more likely just stay at home.
But aside from this I think it’s a big mistake for the right to be concerned with left-wing or MSM (but I repeat myself) themes such as “moderation”. McCain was supposed to be a moderate who would appeal to such voters – but not after the Democrats had finished painting him as the second coming of Goldwater and Falwell combined.
As fun as all this speculation is, one really does have to wait until the candidates are on the road before thinking about how “moderate swing voters” will jump – and that especially includes the eventual GOP nominee getting on the road. Those huge “negatives” often fade away under the impact of a candidates campaign, which is what campaigns are largely about.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am
“As for healthcare, you have not corrected anything, what you have offered is the usual bullshit from those who think that in a modern western society it is perfectly acceptable for a percentage of your population to be denied effective medial care.”
And another lie constantly repeated. I guess this utter disregard for truth was what got you banned from Panda sport for having twelve different registered identities. Try truth. Its what Palin subscribes to and its done her well enough.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:14 am
You’re a bit touchy this morning Russell, what is the matter?
Are you still trying to think of the one thing you have achieved in you ten year war against the left?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:16 am
Try not to change the subject Graeme. I know you guys who run around kissing Mr. Farrar’s arse can virtually do what you want here, but this is a thread on the GOP nomination. Your comment above is completely off topic. But its what you always do when you’re being exposed as an ignorant bigot.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:20 am
PATAKI eh wonder what his whakapapa is?…..Anyhow Sarah and the tea party for me.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Nate Silver is a fascinating analyst and has produced some excellent material – including this graphic. It does illustrate the GOP’s uphill battle – I do believe that defeating Obama will be a tough battle – not often philu and I agree on something.
Romney is clearly the front runner, a very talented operator who would IMO make a fine President BUT he has baggage and his Mormonism is the least of it (that issue got a very thorough airing in the primary). The rapidly failing Romneycare in MA (a virtual clone of the highly unpopular Obamacare) is by far his biggest issue amongst GOP primary voters – his patrician silver spoon upbringing will be an issue (against Obama) in the General.
I like Palin but its too soon even though her CV is gruntier than Obama’s was in 2008. She needs to do what Reagan did and spend more time in the trenches learning the issues in more depth so that she can hone and refine her message.
Gingrich is too old and too much moral baggage – his multiple affairs, whilst provoking yawns in other countries, will be a big deal with GOP voters.
Huckabee is an excellent retail politician and pulled off some upsets in 2008 but he has a major Willie Horton moment awaiting him (the infamous paroled criminal in MA who went on to rape and murder and doomed Dukakis’ campaign in 88) – a felon Huckabee granted clemency to as Gov of Arkansas went on to murder 4 cops in Tacoma, WA. THAT is a campaign killer – I think Huck knows it and I’m picking he’ll stay at Fox News.
Pawlenty was a good Gov of MN but he’s weak tea and Obama would easily deal to him. Thune is a lightweight pretty boy Senator from a tiny State. Mitch Daniels is probably one of the most successful and popular governors in the nation (IN) but he’s not charismatic enough to overcome the middle aged baldy paunchy look that might be ok in the mid-west.
Bloomberg and Trump are not going to run. Guiliani might run but his America’s mayor during 9/11 schtick is wearing a little thin plus he proved to be a lazy retail politician not prepared to put in the hard yards in the early primaries.
The various small fry that might run won’t get the nomination: Santorum (defeated PA Senator) , Pataki (former NY Gov), Bolton (former UN Ambassador) and Barbour (popular MS Gov) etc.
Huntsman is an interesting new possible entry – former UT Gov and Obama’s ambassador to China (just resigned). Was very successful and popular ….in Utah – THE most Republican leaning state thanks to heavy Mormon support for the GOP. He’s Mormon as well so he’ll have the same problem Mitt had with GOP evangelicals AND he’s got the baggage of working for the Obama administration – not likely to go down well with Tea Party types. Very slick and capable though.
I’d love to see Christie in the race – the guy’s got elephant sized balls and has done a great job rescuing NJ from the brink of public sector union driven bankruptcy. Another very heavy hitter who is officially saying no is TX Gov Rick Perry – TX is as close to booming as it gets in the US right now – a very savvy political operator, big fund raising capacity, fiscally conservative with a track record to boot and socially conservative enough to satisfy most GOP voters without Mitt Romney’s flip flop on abortion to content with.
My overly long 2c worth!
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Kiwiblog would be 100% better if RedB and others didn’t constantly turn it into a personalised and reactionary chat room.
Vote:Like flies around your head while you’re trying to read or car alarms in the street at night.
February 7th, 2011 at 11:26 am
@ iMP
Get the RIP Firefox plugin. You can filter our commenters of your choosing.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:27 am
“Anyhow Sarah and the tea party for me.”
Indeed backster I think the same. Red don’t let fat boy Graeme Taylor hook you because the jerk is a hateful obsessed sod. Anybody for a cuppa of tea ?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:28 am
“I’d love to see Christie in the race”
Just another gun grabbing cap and trade supporting health care supporting big city RINO. Nope. Never. Never again.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:32 am
KIA, thank you for the analysis.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Red
Vote:They’ve all got baggage – every single one of them – Palin included. The candidate with the most conservative purity for you would be unelectable in the General election – that’s the harsh reality of politics. You are to the right of almost all of NZ voters and probably a majority of US voters.
February 7th, 2011 at 11:38 am
They’ve already stopped his legislative agenda dead in its tracks and are proceeding to dismantle his stupid healthcare legislation bit by bit. More than enough for the moment I think and something any right-winger should support – unless you approve of government healthcare schemes like that of Canada and Britain?
What I and others have done, is to repeatedly provide facts and arguments supported by links. Your response has been to simply keep repeating, and repeating, and repeating the same line about … a percentage of your population to be denied effective medical care, with no definitions of what that means, no researched, supported stats that could be made in rebuttal, no thought as to whether 100% could be achieved even if effective medical care could be so-defined in this fast-moving age, and no thought as to what happens when government gets so heavily involved with controlling such a personal part of your life.
That last is the strangest thing about your attitude toward the US. I would have thought that a right-winger would have seen that as the number one issue, irrespective of stats. The generic attitude of What’s the goverment doing about it?, is exactly the problem you so often complain about here in NZ, which is precisely what so many ordinary Americans are trying to avoid and argue against. Yet you’re dissing them in favour of Obamacare. There’s no point bitching about government contol of your life if you’re willing to allow nonsense like that to proceed because you’ve swallowed the let-the-left-define-the-problem line about the problems with the current system.
I don’t see the point in calling oneself a right-winger if you’re going to allow your ideological and political opponents to define the problems of society for you (…those who think that in a modern western society it is perfectly acceptable for a percentage of your population to be denied effective medial care. ). Once you’ve done that you’re more than halfway down the road to accepting their solutions, which is always more government, as if Medicare and Medicaid and 50% of US healthcare spending coming from government did not exist. Do you not get this?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:40 am
KIA, that you use the word “unelectable” shows where your influence is coming from. Its rubbish left/ mainstream media propaganda and you should know better than to buy into it. look at the electoral map.
Just FYI KIA, I would probably choose Pawlenty, but it has to be Palin because that is the true battleground. If the right do not choose Palin, it means we are letting the left make our decisions, and those days are long gone..!!
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:43 am
You can count Giuliani and Gingrich out straight away. They both have problems, both have been married three times and have little traction in the field.Look at Rudi last time !!
Vote:The ones on the right like Bachman,De Mint and Palin scare me witless. Bachman would be one of the most ignorant people, just behind Palin. She just loves looking at herself through a mirror. Huckabee is a nice guy but I think he’s looking after himself on Fox News.Anyone with Tea Party fingerprints is looking for trouble.Haley Barbour of Mississippi has great political skills but he strikes as though it is too far south for him and his views on cilvil right is a little undeveloped.
Romney ok but I don’t think he’s got it ,as well as Pawlenty. Pawlenty would find it hard to carry his own state of Minnesota.To me, the big contenders have still to declare. I think Thune South Dakota, has something more than the rest. However the one I would like to see is Chris Christie of liberal New Jersey. He is one of the first governors who is taking on the public service unions like municipal employees and the teacher unions. Much will depend on this year. If he can get his reforms through in this liberal state, Christie will snowball. However he says he’s not running but he could be drafted. Surely he would serve if demanded.
Any GOP candidate with a record contrasting to “messiah”(Obama) stands a chance.
I saw Fox News this morning with the 100th Anniversary to Ronald Reagan. Reagan sure had something. Chris Christie could be the next Reagan.
I believe the GOP candidate able to demonstrate fiscal restraint and jobs growth in their state will give BHO a race for the WH.I believe the strongest candidate will come from the Governors.
February 7th, 2011 at 11:46 am
“You are to the right of almost all of NZ voters and probably a majority of US voters.”
Thank goodness for that.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:48 am
“She just loves looking at herself through a mirror.”
Gosh, such telling criticism. Who could resist such forceful logic.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:52 am
“Thank goodness for that”
Instead of such pointless rubbish Mr. Taylor, why don’t you try addressing Tom Scott’s excellent points? Too hard is it? (Easier to sell Fords with 200k on the clock to Maoris on social welfare?) You should try and tackle Tom’s points. He has sliced you in to little pieces.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 11:55 am
The 2012 election is Obama’s to lose. No GOP candidate was going to win in 08 – the economic tsunami was too fresh and vicious and so the headwinds were colossal plus the media were busting their boilers to carry Obama’s water and nothing from his past and lack of experience was going to rain on the parade of the first black President.
If the economy improves to the extent that real unemployment goes down to below 7%, consumer spending climbs and there is solid 4%+ GDP growth and Obama makes no major foreign policy stumbles, it wont matter who the GOP picks Obama will win. Its 50/50 whether there will be a recovery that strong and his propensity for foreign policy gaffes is still high.
If there is a terrorist attack with major loss of life on US soil, it wont matter who the GOP puts up – they will beat Obama.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
There is a better than even chance Obama will be stopped by his inability to comply with the Constitutional requirement of being a natural born citizen. More than a few states are introducing legislation that will bar him from registration if he cannot produce a legitimate birth certificate.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
“instead of such pointless rubbish Mr. Taylor, why don’t you try addressing Tom Scott’s excellent”
I meant Tom Hunter of course. Sorry Tom.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Go Bedrater. Palin for Prez. Once she gets the nomination, Obama is a certainty. Even if he’s Kenyan. After all, the Incinerator is from La La Land.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
If the right do not choose Palin, it means we are letting the left make our decisions
An odd comment – why not let the right make their own decision on this, Palin or not, rather than have you make it for them.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Tom
It is a pity that you have resorted to abuse, I had rather hoped that you would be a little more intelligent than the senile old fool from Tauranga.
Anyway, nowhere have I said that Obamacare is the answer (you know that but it does not suit your argument so you choose to keep repeating the lie), what I have said, and will continue to say, is that any system that only provides EFFECTIVE medical care to those who can afford it has no right to call itself a modern society.
Do I know what will work when it comes to universal healthcare in the USA?….no I do not, do I know what is NOT WORKING?….Yes, the current system is failing those who do not have private medical cover.
So Tom, if that does not fit your racist, gun loving, health care for white and the rich only view of what being a right winger is then tough luck.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
“why don’t you try addressing Tom Scott’s excellent””
Another “senior” moment Redbaiter?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Heres Dimes theory on the US and any other country suffering under a left wing government..
Basically, its like drug & alcohol addiction, before you can change you have to hit rock bottom.
I believe new zealand hit rock bottom at the end of 2007.. hence the rise of national and change of govt. It took a fuckin long time to get there. Now we are working through the 12 step program. New govt starts out very centre, which moves the country from the far left. Peeps get used to it, next term they move a bit more to the right etc etc
Same thing will happen in the US & Aussie. People take take take and make total glutons of themselves. Eventually they realise they have to pay.
UK hit rock bottom, now they are on the 12 step program
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
bruv: I see two problems with US healthcare:
1. That, for some groups of the population, it is very expensive to get coverage
2. That some people who are very poor don’t have access to services.
The groups in the first category are those who are self employed or otherwise don’t have a big insurer. The insurance companies lobbied for and got regulations that prohibit individuals or small employers from organising into a buyers collective to negotiate with the insurers. So, it is very expensive, and they become uninsured. Note here that I’m not overly concerned about groups like smokers finding it hard to get cheap insurance – I see that as a desirable outcome of the US system.
On the second, the underlying problem is actually the existing programs that provide healthcare for the poor. These people should already be covered by the govt, that they aren’t indicates a failing in their targeting.
My understanding is that many people in the US who are uninsured have chosen to be uninsured – they’re very rich (and therefore self insured – something that is illegal under Obama-care), or very young and healthy, and therefore not interested in pooling their risk with others (given that their risk is far lower than the others they’ll pool with – they’d be net payers).
Seems to me that better competition in the system is the answer – real competition would mean that insurers might target small employers instead of charging over the odds, real competition would mean that those low risk people who currently don’t get insurance might instead be prepared to pay the $50 a month that their real insurance cost would be (with appropriate deductables etc). I’m pretty sure the current US health system is actually a long way away from the wild west unregulated system that people outside the US imagine – I think that most elements of it are controlled by the govt, with all sorts of barriers to entry like not being allowed to offer insurance across multiple states without registering in each.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Jeb Bush would be awesome
I was watching Karl Rove on FOx the other day. He said if jeb was jeb jones and not jeb bush, he would already be president.
Hard to argue with Rove.
Redbaiter – what do you think of Huntsman? Glenn Beck loves his dad (who is a classy guy).. not sure about the son though..
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
I do not give too much of a damn who Glenn Beck likes and care even less about Karl Rove’s choice. For fuck’s sake. Haven’t you had enough of the Bushes yet??
The GOP is the fucking useless outfit that brought us Obama. Anybody who has been a key past figure in that useless organisation (Rove and the Bushes are just a couple of examples) has to FUCK OFF OUT OF IT. They’re useless, they failed big time and they just need to go away.
Like NZ’s National Party.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
geez red, was only a question. I thought you might know a bit about huntsman. my bad.
Daddy Bush did a good job as president.
W. was awesome cause he killed so many arabs and that upset luc. He spent a bit much tho lol
Jeb would make a better president than either imho.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
It’s a shame that the two best candidates – Perry and Christie, have ruled themselves out. I think Perry would have had the best chance of beating Obama.
Of those left, however, it’s gotta be Palin. People forget just what a good campaigner she is, and contrary to the views of some, she is sharp as a tack. I think Obama will be very hard to beat no matter who is the GOP nominee, but I believe she would be the best one to take him on.
Some of the other candidates are interesting however. I think Bolton is running because he wants to be Vice President, not because he thinks he can win. And watch out for Cain – he could surprise everyone. Wouldn’t it be fascinating to have two black men nominated for President next year?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
“Wouldn’t it be fascinating to have two black men nominated for President next year?”
Why would you spoil quite a good comment with this gratuitous rubbish?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
Palin would be Obama’s best choice, he has weaknesses but she would give him easy opportunities to shift the focus to her weaknesses.
Palin would be high risk – she would have to expose herself to the whole electorate and not just to her fanbase. It would only take one botched interview or debate to confirm she hasn’t learnt much since the last campaign. Recent interviews suggest she has a long way to go.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
BlairM
Even if I agreed with you re Palin being sharp as a tack the fact remains that she is unelectable.
Middle America will not vote for her, a recent poll showed that over 56% of middle America would vote for Obama if Palin stands against Obama, remove Palin from the equation and those intending to vote for Obama dropped to 47%.
This is the thing that gets me, the Kenyan is there for the taking, the only things standing in the way if his removal from the White house is that idiot Palin and the equally moronic Tea Party.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
These media managed morons who cannot see the difference between a generic poll and the electoral college should stick to selling second hand cars to welfare recipients and forget about their ignorant opinions on American politics..
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Redbaiter
Leaving aside your endless and tedious abuse can you tell me why middle America is going to vote for Palin?
She does not share their values, she does not resonate with them so why on earth are you so sure she is the one to defeat Obama?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Pete George can you give one good reason why Sarah Palin, the Republican Party or anyone would take advice from some extreme left bass playing communist from Dunedin, full of bullshit from every left wing mainstream media source out there? Just what have you got to offer that isn’t a tired old retread of some dumbarsed mainstream media commie??
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Why would you spoil quite a good comment with this gratuitous rubbish?
Got a thing against black men Red? Shouldn’t the best candidate for the job get the nomination – regardless of skin colour?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Bruv, I’m prepared to debate with anyone on here with integrity and knowledge. As I have said before, I am never going to answer the falsely premised questions of someone like you, an ignorant loon who cannot be trusted as far as he could be kicked. Twelve registered identities on Panda Sports is proof of your integrity. I have many a view on the US elections and they’re all underpinned by research and objective analysis. You are just full of TV One shit, and have proved yourself incapable of responding to any serious attempts at discussion, as your joke attempts to combat Tom Hunter’s arguments show so well. I wouldn’t waste my time.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
“Got a thing against black men Red?”
No but obviously you have or you wouldn’t be so fixated on skin colour all the time.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
I don’t expect “Sarah Palin, the Republican Party or anyone” would take advice from me, I just post my opinions.
I also don’t pretend that I play any part in US politics as some seem to:
“If the right do not choose Palin, it means we are letting the left make our decisions”
Are you a registered voter in the US?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
No but obviously you have or you wouldn’t be so fixated on skin colour all the time.
Fuck your mind must be a conundrum to understand. Your the one who seemed to object to the line in BlairM’s post regarding two black candidates – clearly you have a problem comprehending that possibility.
Just asking Red, do you have a problem if there was two black candidates? Yes or No will suffice.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
You’re too thick Bevan. I was offended by Blair’s compulsion to bring skin colour into the issue. All you liberals who claim not to be racists but can only see things through the narrow prism of skin colour are hypocrites.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
Redbaiter
“I have many a view on the US elections and they’re all underpinned by research and objective analysis.”
What utter crap, you are as much a cut and paste man as Phool is, all of your “research” comes from watching Glen Beck, and lets be honest here Russell, Glen Beck is as mad as Palin.
As for you being “Objective”, well that is about the funniest thing I have ever read on this site.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
“What utter crap, you are as much a cut and paste man as Phool is, all of your “research” comes from watching Glen Beck, and lets be honest here Russell, Glen Beck is as mad as Palin.”
This might pass for argument on Panda sports, but its in reality just worthless assertion and bigotry. Proving nothing and saying nothing. Best you stick to selling clapped out dungas to the underclass.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
Yes or No Red, shouldn’t be too hard? Shit, lie if you want to – we can only take your word on it anyway and its not like you’re hooked up to a polygraph machine.
You’re too thick Bevan.
You should put some sunscreen on, with skin as thin as yours you’ll get melanoma very easily…
I was offended by Blair’s compulsion to bring skin colour into the issue. All you liberals who claim not to be racists but can only see things through the narrow prism of skin colour are hypocrites.
Yet, you seem to be the only one who is offended by the mention of two black candidates. Interesting.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Another 75 IQ bore. You and Bruv should hook up. Don’t need a clapped out rust bucket with the speedo turned back a couple of hundred thou do you? He’ll give you a great price, and credit at 24.5%.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Shit Red, you can’t even bring yourself to say “I don’t have a problem with black people”.
Why is that?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
So Russell….
Why would middle America vote for Palin?
Because she is not black?
Because she is a Tea Party moron?
Because she is a bible basher?
Because she is a gun loving idiot?
Because she is a person who does not care if the poor do not have access to effective health care?
Come on Redbaiter, tell us why Palin is the one that middle America is going to see as it’s saviour?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
See that is what I mean by thick Bevan. I have now told you three times that I reject the premise of your question but you keep asking it. You’re just a waste of time. This is a thread on the GOP presidential candidates and its about policies, not about skin colour, as you seem so desperate to make it- just so you can reassure yourself you’re not the hopeless bigot you suspect you may be.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
“tell us why”
There is no “us” Mr. Taylor. There’s just you, a hopelessly underachieving overweight lazy and incompetent used car salesman stuck behind a computer terminal in a clapped out car yard in Cambridge. Its you singular, not us, and as I have said so many times, I’m willing to discuss things here but not with those who lack integrity and knowledge of the issues. Even less with those mysterious loons who imagine themselves to be more than one person. If you had any knowledge you wouldn’t be asking your infantile questions, you would be stating your case.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
This is a thread on the GOP presidential candidates
- GOP potential candidates
those mysterious loons who imagine themselves to be more than one person
Like: “If the right do not choose Palin, it means we are letting the left make our decisions”?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
“GOP potential candidates”
When is a “candidate” never potential George? Get an education.
BTW, bad example in the second allegation too, but I just get so tired of attempting to educate dummies Pete.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
who is mr taylor?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
They’re not presidential candidates at least until they announce they are giving it a go. How many have done that so far? An education is no substitute for simple common sense.
BTW, bad hypocracy on the second example. Have you a degree in hypocracy?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
“Have you a degree in hypocracy?”
Naah, but I do know how to spell it.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Indeed, although I would disagree that we hit rock-bottom here in 2007 and are climbing out of it. Hitting rock-bottom would mean a repeat of the 1983/84 scenario, but in terms of government health and pensions, and I don’t think we’re there yet. That’s why few are willing to countenance changes and National are unwilling to even talk about it.
Similarly in the US, which accords to KIA’s analysis: no GOP candidate could have won in 2008, and all it will take for Obama to win in 2012 will be just a reasonable uptick in the economy with an unemployment rate lower than today’s (you can bet that 7% unemployment will not generate the sort of screeching NYT/WaPo headlines of “Jobless Recovery” that Bush’s 5.4% rate did) and no foreign policy disasters. With those things in play people will go back to forgetting about the looming disaster that is Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, not to mention the debt.
However, as a number of people have pointed out, these are still early days and it pays to remember the following quotes from TIME magazine on March 31, 1980:
Sound familiar?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Oh noes Pete!!!! He’s really got you there!
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
I’m devastated. At least it’s one thing he got right today.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
I have now told you three times that I reject the premise of your question but you keep asking it.
Actually you haven’t done that at all. Maybe in your mind you have, but to the rest of us – we are still left a wondering…
This is a thread on the GOP presidential candidates and its about policies, not about skin colour, as you seem so desperate to make it-
I know, and I’m asking you why you objected to a poster making note about one candidates skin colour…
Do you have a problem with his skin colour Red?
just so you can reassure yourself you’re not the hopeless bigot you suspect you may be.
Now now Red, that makes no sense at all to anyone – try to remain calm when typing as it helps you come across as coherent…
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Tom – we didnt hit rock bottom economically in 2007, but we did in terms of govt control/nanny state.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Dime
Agree on both – but in terms of the latter I think we’re still bumping along the bottom, with National leaving in place all the institutions that the left have built.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Even if I agreed with you re Palin being sharp as a tack the fact remains that she is unelectable.
Middle America will not vote for her, a recent poll showed that over 56% of middle America would vote for Obama if Palin stands against Obama, remove Palin from the equation and those intending to vote for Obama dropped to 47%.
This is the thing that gets me, the Kenyan is there for the taking, the only things standing in the way if his removal from the White house is that idiot Palin and the equally moronic Tea Party.
Carter consistently outpolled Reagan by twenty points right up until March 1980. So I don’t read much into Palin’s polling right now. Whether she can repeat what Reagan did I can’t say, but I simply think that of all the potential candidates, she would perform best against Obama.
I don’t think you have quite grasped that the only real opposition to Obama right now IS Palin and the Tea Party. They’re not “in the way”, they are the way. Take them out of the equation and all you have are a few limp-wristed East Coast ivy leaguers whose only problem with the Democrats running things is that it’s not them.
(My new policy on Redbaiter is to just ignore him. I hope other Kiwiblog readers will do the same. Don’t feed the troll, people)
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
You cannot just ring up 1000 random voters and get the same picture as you would in the election. The election is not won by the popular vote it is won by the electoral college. To get an accurate picture you would have to poll each voting district, convert that into a state win and then add the votes from that state to the electoral college total. If you do that, you find that it is quite likely that Palin can win. Pronouncements that she is “unelectable” based on mainstream media propaganda based again on unrealistic generic national polling are just as weak as piss.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
“I’m devastated. At least it’s one thing he got right today.”
A milestone you in 9054 posts have yet to reach.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
red – have their been any polls like that?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
RB: To get an accurate picture you would have to poll each voting district, convert that into a state win and then add the votes from that state to the electoral college total. If you do that, you find that it is quite likely that Palin can win.
How the hell do you know that?
No answer necessary, you don’t. After suggesting how one might get a more accurate picture you then throw in a wistful thinking wild guess. Based on your own summation that makes your claim as weak as piss.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
@ dime who asks who is Mr Taylor?? It seems he is as follows according to Red:
“There is no “us” Mr. Taylor. There’s just you, a hopelessly underachieving overweight lazy and incompetent used car salesman stuck behind a computer terminal in a clapped out car yard in Cambridge.”
Now, I do not know if this is true or not and could care even less, but he is sure a tiresome bugger when he tries to get on Red’s case.
BB do you really feel better after your rants & insults against Red?
I have said before that there is probably not too much I agree with Red on, (there is the odd thing to be fair) but he has every right to express his views, and expect a reasonable level of debate, rather than gratuitous insults hurled at him every time he posts. I have to say that he really only fires back when the crap flies his way.
One thing I do know from my point of view is that Red knows a shitload more about the yanks election processess and candidates (GOP bias or not) etc than I do. (which would not be difficult)
My 2 cents worth, for what it is worth.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
I have to say that he really only fires back when the crap flies his way.
Lofty, if you look at the very start of this thread you will see who started the personal attacks. Check the posts at at 10:19 am, at 10:19 am, and at 10:43 am. BB first responds at at 10:47 am.
And to say that Red has every right to “expect a reasonable level of debate” might mean something if Red actually participated in any sort of debate, let alone at a reasonable level – something he rarely does.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
I accept that Pete, but anytime Red, BB, yourself & the odd other get a whiff of Red all hell breaks loose, and to be honest I do find it tiresome, might as well start a facebook page and slag off the trollop next door.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Lofty, I have yet to see any evidence, on any site, that bedwetter could distinguish shit from clay as far as US (or any other countries’) politics is concerned, nor have I seen (I admit I gave up looking long ago) anything resembling debate in his mindless rants.
I do agree however the constant sniping is getting boring.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Don’t get me wrong MT Tinman, like I say he seems to be informed, and to my very limited knowledge of american politics he is.
When I come here for a little look, all I see is the above mentioned usual suspects flinging shit about, and tiresome is the very word for it, from my perspective.
But hey that is just me, it aint my blog. I can f..k off I suppose.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
I’ll agree on boring. I’ll disagree on painting Red as whiter than the driven snow, whilst evil BB and others taunt him. For a period kiwiblog was red free. Admittedly it was also Phil free in that same period, but it was a much more pleasant place to visit.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
I can live with that PaulL.
I certainly do not think red is whiter than snow, as I say I agree with him on very little.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
This thread got really wound up while I was watching the Superbowl. You do your cause no good Red by revealing yourself as a birther. Obama’s non release of his long form vault certificate is simple – his mother married the Indonesian Soetero who adopted Obama and so, under Hawaiian law, his original vault certificate was replaced with one with the new adopted name. Its common knowledge he changed his first name from Barry to Barak as a teenager. Obama calculated that revealing his original LF cert with the name Barry Soetero would be electorally damaging (it would) especially in that crucial pre market meltdown period of the campaign when Palin’s candidacy vaulted McCain into the lead. Obama also (correctly) counted on an infactuated media who would be disinterested in why the LF stayed locked up after he posted the short form cert on his website. You can’t fake two birth notices in separate Honolulu newspapers (and yes I’ve read all the supposedly plausible explanations for how this happened). I live in AZ and the State legislature (which is dominted by the GOP) will likely pass a birth certificate law for Presidential candidates to be on the ballot there. Likely Obama will have to produce the LF cert and it will prove he was born in Hawaii – he’ll have to explain about the Indonesian adopted father thing and that will fuel speculation that he’s Muslim but its a whole different kettle of fish to getting the Supreme Court to rule him ineligible. Dozens of birther lawyers have brought cases – I’ve read their briefs in detail – and the SCOTUS has skuttled the lot for a variety of valid reasons.
I repeat I like Palin. She’s not dumb and she’s a formidable retail politician with a huge fund raising capability but the bottom line is this: Ronald Reagan (despite all the negative publicity he got from the left leaning MSM) would never have fluffed the Katie Couric interview like she did. Yes it was edited – yes she was set up (I believe 100% what John Ziegler has to say about how she was covered) but that’s how the left plays the game. Reagan played by the same rules (in fact he didnt have talk radio and the right blogosphere to back him up) but he was more seasoned, knowledgable and experienced and he would’ve both been more prepared and better able to handle on the spot gotchas with a Katie Couric than Palin.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
From memory the US site Redstate did a similar analysis (though more simplified than this) and shows that Palin is quite electable…
The system is similar to our old FPP (kind of), in that a nominee can win while getting well less than 50% of the vote…
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
KIA
There were no gotchas in that Couric interview.
More of your drivel.
Stay in AZ: they deserve you.
As regard the topic of the thread, tagging Guiliani as a moderate (extreme moderate, even,) tells us all we need to know about the current state of US political ideology, and it’s all bad.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Luc
Vote:Couric was out to get Palin – her interview of Obama was full of softballs and fawning syncophancy. Thankfully only Americans get to vote in American elections. And since you despise the place so much we all hope you stay in NZ although it barely deserves you and your drivel.
February 7th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Luc said “tagging Guiliani as a moderate (extreme moderate, even,) tells us all we need to know about the current state of US political ideology, and it’s all bad.”
Do you say that because Giuliani doesn’t have a pathological hatred of Israel?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
KIA
Couric was so generous to Palin it was embarrassing. For both.
I would love to love the US. When they stop their killing maybe I will. In the meantime, every individual American I have ever met are just so nice.
Pity about the policies of their political class.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 8:54 pm
Want to put money on that, Redbaiter?
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
Rodders
So your unwavering support for that illegitimate state is not pathological?
Of course not.
Look at the facts, man. Do some research.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Luc, I will leave it for others reading this thread to judge which of us has an obsession.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
“You do your cause no good Red by revealing yourself as a birther.”
You are the one doing yourself no good KIA by using the term “birther”. An insulting and denigrating term used by the left to try and bracket people who care about the Constitution with those lunatics who claim George Bush was behind the twin towers attack. This ploy is such a feeble and typically leftist device I am surprised you have fallen for it, but fallen for it you have.
“Obama’s non release of his long form vault certificate is simple –”
It may indeed be simple but not for the reasons you claim.
“his mother married the Indonesian Soetero who adopted Obama and so, under Hawaiian law, his original vault certificate was replaced with one with the new adopted name. Its common knowledge he changed his first name from Barry to Barak as a teenager. Obama calculated that revealing his original LF cert with the name Barry Soetero would be electorally damaging (it would) ”
Why would it? This is just bizarre speculation with no evidential worth.
“especially in that crucial pre market meltdown period of the campaign when Palin’s candidacy vaulted McCain into the lead.”
Sorry. Can’t see that this is any more than speculation. Either way, this is only a matter of opinion, and mine is that his name being different would not be that much of an issue.
“Obama also (correctly) counted on an infactuated media who would be disinterested [sic] in why the LF stayed locked up after he posted the short form cert on his website. ”
The media are not “disinterested”. They are the Democrat party and what they have done is continually attempt to deflect attention from the BC issue or constantly and persistently misrepresent the facts. Lou Dobbs was fired from CNN for daring to pursue the issue.
“You can’t fake two birth notices in separate Honolulu newspapers”
Rubbish. For one thing the advertisements could easily have been inserted by Obama’s grand parents who were living in Hawaii at the time. This could have been done quite innocently or it could have been done on his mother’s orders in order to help convince Hawaiian authorities he was born there for the purpose of gaining citizenship once she returned to Hawaii. She was very conscious of things like this as if you look at her correspondence from the time she had had many dealing with the Dept of Immigration concerning Soetero status and Obama senior’s status. The claim that no one would have known he would one day be President is just a smokescreen. They did not need to have that motivation at all.
Secondly, there are many issues with the actual date of birth and where his mother was on the date it is claimed to have occurred. No evidence she was in Hawaii, and she was recorded in Canada attending college only a few days later.
Secondly, the birth advertisements are only on microfilm. That microfilm is available to anyone who asks for it at any time. There is plenty of evidence of tampering with the film and it would have been very easy for any Obama supporter to go and get the film, splice in the advertisements, and return it to the library. It is also a strange fact that the format of the birth advertisements in both newspapers that contained Obama’s birth notice is different to the format used consistently before and consistently afterwards.
“(and yes I’ve read all the supposedly plausible explanations for how this happened).”
I doubt it. Furthermore to claim that two newspaper advertisements of doubtful origins are sufficient to Constitutionally qualify a President of the United States who is already showing signs of considerable disloyalty is just nuts. This ain’t just applying for a passport. It is the security of the highest office in the land and the safety of the United States we are talking about.
“I live in AZ and the State legislature (which is dominted by the GOP) will likely pass a birth certificate law for Presidential candidates to be on the ballot there. Likely Obama will have to produce the LF cert and it will prove he was born in Hawaii – ”
I doubt that. In spite of declarations from Hawaii Health Dept officials, the new Governor Abercrombie has categorically stated that there are no documents on file to prove Obama was born in Hawaii. He subpoenaed the hospitals with a search warrant and was unable to find anything at either of the two hospitals Obama has at different times claimed as his birth place. There is no Long Form because he was not born in Hawaii. No doctors nurses or anyone has been found who remembers his birth or helped in it.
“Dozens of birther lawyers have brought cases – I’ve read their briefs in detail – and the SCOTUS has skuttled the lot for a variety of valid reasons.”
I am really surprised you would say this. It indicates your investigations have been extremely superficial, and again, it is just mainstream media propaganda. The truth is the cases have all been dismissed for “lack of standing”. Meaning every judge has decided that the complainants do not have sufficient legal stature to bring the case before the courts. The actual meat of the case- “is Obama eligible?” has never been tested in court. Of course the real reason it has not ever got to court is because the judges are frightened, and I would not blame them.
Vote:February 7th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
Kiwi in America, Three questions.
I notice Palin supporters stating she is the Margaret Thatcher of the USA ,do you believe she has the education and intellectual firepower of Thatcher at her best ?
Could Palin handle PM’s question time ?
Would you agree with Palin’s idea of sending US troops into Georgia to push the Russians out ? knowing the first rule of war is, do not invade Russia ?
Amusing that Reagan and John Wayne had something in common, both dodged combat in WW2.
Vote:While a bloke ten years older than them called Clarke Gable took part in US air raids as far as Berlin as an air gunner/camera man.
February 7th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Good to see all the Ebolatards pushing back so fiercely.
Hey Fuckwit, good time up north yesterday? Pity you couldn’t get close enough to thump the PM before you had to clamber back in the Mitsubishi Galant and hit SH1.
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 4:28 am
grump
I dont believe that Palin currently is a match for Thatcher in terms of intellectual firepower but she is still young and could get to that point. She exceeds Thatcher in her campaigning skills, political charisma and fund raising firepower (a crucial often overlooked element of in assessing potential Presidential candidates).
Whether Palin could handle PM’s Question time is a moot point. No US President ever faces an equivalent. However most US Presidents have the native political instincts that, had they been seasoned in the British Parliamentary system, I have no doubts they could handle it and I believe that Palin, suitably seasoned, could.
Sending US troops into Georgia is not a good idea – there are other ways to contain Russian aggression.
Reagan didn’t dodge WW2 as you claim. His eyesight was tested at a very very poor 7/2000 and there was literally not a single combat task that he could adequately perform with that level of sight impairment.
My point about Palin is that she is insufficiently seasoned . Her time will come – she is a formidable politician already with an impressive array of political skills – the ones she is IMO deficient in can and will be learned over time.
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 4:41 am
Red
Vote:This thread is not the place for me to engage in a discussion over the Obama birth certificate debate. Another time mate. I will say this. For the life of me I cannot understand why you insist in being so rude, aggressive and foul in so much of your communication. I can understand your frustration at leftist thinking but your modus operendi is to attack and sometime quite viciously and needlessly. There are many here at kiwiblog who are probably with you philosophically 90%+ of the time but recoil back when you lash out. This is one of the more repugnant tactics of the left – personal ad hominem attacks instead of debating the issues. Human nature is to avoid bullies and you can be a bully. Its sad because many many times you have much to contribute to the debate and your zeal at promoting conservative values and ideas is commendable.
February 8th, 2011 at 5:42 am
KIA
See Redbaiter @ 9:36 pm. Tettered on the brink in para 2 on a couple of counts, but didn’t fall in.
Maybe its a sign of things to come.
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 8:06 am
is arnie schwarzenegger considering standing?
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 10:24 am
“This thread is not the place for me to engage in a discussion over the Obama birth certificate debate.”
No its not, so if you knew that, why the insulting words on the issue in the first place? I’d say if you’re not going to follow through on something don’t start it.
“For the life of me I cannot understand why you insist in being so rude, aggressive and foul in so much of your communication. ”
Take the log out of your own eye. You’re the one calling people “birthers.” And please, spare me the damn patronising advice and the school teacher style lectures. You’re as much of in need of a lesson in manners as anyone.
As for the left, you gain nothing from them in return for civility. I’m civil to people who are civil to me, and it always amuses me that people who come on here criticizing Redbaiter are always so blind to those who are the real instigators, or influenced by the partisan lies and assertions of their obvious allies. The left rejected civility in communication years ago and people like you who claim to represent the right have just allowed them to walk all over you.
Y’know I would be ashamed to call myself a centre rightist, because it is you misguided people who have surrendered every beach head and given the left the strangle hold they now enjoy on our society.
You are abject failures, and traitors and losers, and its time you took responsibility for your weak surrender to the left and allowing our society to sink into the stinking socialist morass it is today. That is what your misguided compromise has brought us. That is what you have wrought from your silly need for polite discourse. How about a bit of regret and some apologies for helping the left destroy so much of what was good in our society? That’s what you should be doing. Acknowledging how soundly you have been beaten. You have completely failed to recognise the left for what they really are, and you have allowed them to play you like a violin.
As for my messages, don’t like em, don’t read them. I could spend all day here whining about Ure like so many others do. I just don’t read his excrement. Its not hard. Just STFU and write your POV. Spare me the patronizing delusional offensive parenting for god’s sake.
And it is all completely off topic.
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 10:48 am
Ahh, what a relief! Normal transmission is resumed (in the third person of course)!
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 10:56 am
If you weren’t such a simpering crawling National Party arse licker you would have had 100 demerits twice over for off topic comments and been banned for a month you useless little worm.
[DPF: And 20 demerits for that piece of personal abuse. You're just 10 away from a 2 month vacation]
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 11:01 am
Red
Vote:You entirely make my point.
February 8th, 2011 at 11:04 am
Careful, or its off to the quiet room with you!!
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 11:06 am
“You entirely make my point.”
KIA- I wonder if you got mine.
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 11:09 am
“Careful, or its off to the quiet room with you!!”
Which would please you immensely right? Typical leftist fraud. All for freedom of speech as long as it first passes inspection by the head Progressive.
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
“[DPF: And 20 demerits for that piece of personal abuse. You're just 10 away from a 2 month vacation]”
What a fucking joke that would be. I have suffered abuse that makes that look like kindergarten stuff and you have done nothing. I think you are on a campaign to exclude RW critics of National from commenting on your blog. What else would explain such constantly unfair and selective application of your rules? You may as well not have any, and just hand out demerits when you choose.
The davincimode for example, a gross Key sycophant, gets away with scores of off topic and comments and personal attacks. Friend of your is he?
Robert Black constantly calls people cunts and you do nothing.
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
I have suffered abuse that makes that look like kindergarten stuff and you have done nothing.
Oh spare me! Much like Trevor Mallard, you don’t seem to be able to take what you give to others.
You playing the victim is like Hamas making out they are oppressed!
Vote:February 8th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
“Oh spare me! Much like Trevor Mallard, you don’t seem to be able to take what you give to others. You playing the victim is like Hamas making out they are oppressed!”
Why is it that you are always so completely unable to understand what is being said? Is it a prerequisite of being a National Party supporter that your comprehension node is stunted somehow?
You are off topic here, as you are so often, and yet Farrar will never demerit you.
I am only saying that rules should be applied fairly and not selectively. That is not whining. I can take as much abuse as fools like you can throw at me. Its you guys who go running to Farrar like lame little girls if you get any back. As the davincimode has obviously done.
See if you can get that comprehension node operated on or something. You’re as boring as Pete George, and that is saying something.
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