Imperator Fish on Goff
March 15th, 2011 at 2:00 pm by David FarrarIn the video above you can see Phil Goff talking about ruling Hone out.
Left wing blogger Imperator Fish comments on Goff’s words:
I’m willing to cut the new leader of a political party a bit of slack. Even if they have been around the political scene for years.
But I can barely listen to or read a thing Phil Goff says without groaning. He really needs to be taken aside and given the hard word about gun safety. How can anyone shoot themselves in the foot so many times?
He specifically quotes Goff saying:
“I don’t believe you could form a stable government on a relationship with Hone Harawira.”
And comments:
But Goff’s happy to work with Winston Peters, despite Peters being at least as widely reviled as Harawira. The main difference between the two is that Harawira speaks from the heart. He may be unreliable and unstable, but you know where you stand with Hone.
Does anyone remember how Goff reacted when John Key ruled out working with Winston Peters? I recall accusations of hubris and arrogance. Goff in turn said that he was prepared to work with anyone.
To me this demonstrates a crisis in confidence within the leadership of Labour. There is no consistency in the messages they are sending to the electorate, because they are floundering and bereft of ideas. Nothing they do seems to impress the voters. So they keep trying new things. Goff’s “me too” approach to politicking just shows him to be weak and lacking a firm vision for the country. His comments about Liz Hurley, and suggestions that extrajudicial means should be used to deal with looters, all indicate Goff may be more reactionary than visionary. They also piss off a lot of people who should be falling over to vote Labour.
He concludes:
… if someone like me, who should be a natural Labour voter, is seriously wondering why he should bother voting for them, how many others are there in the same situation?
I don’t think Imperator Fish is alone in asking.
Related posts:
- Goff flip-flops on Harawira
- Goff rules out Hone but not Winston
- Goff rules out Harawira led left party
- Imperator Fish at Epsom
March 15th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Is it just me or has nearly everyone else reached the point of exasperation with this clown that everything he says is immediately written off as stupid?
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Goff is institutionalised. He has been in parliament for 28 years. That’s his problem, and one he cannot do anything about.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
The standard of interviewing in this country continues to make me despair.
This morning it was Marcus Lush, who did actually ask the “How is this decision different from JK’s decision to rule out WP that you labelled ‘arrogant’?” question. Unfortunately he completely wasted it by allowing Goff to ramble on about why he would still work with WP and was rulling out Hone.
Please, just once, will an interviewer give it the “No, that’s not what I asked…”? Please? Is it too much to ask?
Key and Goff have made the same calculation though, they both reckon that by ruling out working with WP and HW respectively they have shored up votes for themselves which may have slipped in those directions. Unfortuntely for Goff “A vote for Winston is a vote for labour” works to scare National voters, “A vote for Hone….” er, no not really.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
I think that while Key was able to make his decision from a position of principles Goff has had to make his decision from a position of political survival. If Hone forms a party it will be primarily Labour and Maori Party Voters who it attracts not National ones and currently Goff needs every single one of those votes just to maintain the status quo.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
No Imperator fish is not alone.
Vote:I can put money on that in the surety of a big pay out.
As a lifelong Labour supporter and voter, the party and those within the house have given me the shits over the last few years. We all know why.
March 15th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
And there in the back ground is the former journalist Fran Mould proving that she was nothing more than a Labour party mouthpiece when she worked for TVNZ.
One other thing I noticed about Fran, was she standing in bad light?..there does seem to be a shadow on her face.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
Goff has grey hair again! Just a couple of weeks ago he was a ginger kid. Are there competing image consultants at work in the Labour Party?
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Hair colouring is like virus mangement a constant update system is required.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
And didn’t Goff have a mustache at one stage? Or am I getting my 1980s Labour Party politicians mixed up and mistaking him for Roger Douglas?
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Goff’s minders are trying desperately to create a Key look-alike. Goff is turning up to the same events, doing the smile and wave (an arm around Bob Parker at the cricket was a good touch) and doing a pig-me-too on current issues (shoot looters, rule out Hone etc. etc.). How long is it since you heard him announce a significant left wing policy? – it is all “we don’t like what the Govt. is doing but we will do the same thing, just differently”.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Gooner nails it. Goff came into Parliament when the late Sir Robert Muldoon still had one term of his Prime Ministership to run and when the late Bill Rowling was Labour’s leader. John Key had just turned 20, and the Springbok tour of New Zealand had just ended. He is, quite literally, from a different generation, and any suggestion that he represents the fresh new face of Labour is patently absurd.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
gee BB .. I got a 100 demerits over something similar about FM
Vote:those labour MP’s wanting to take over must be shitting themselves in that they will have to roll Gaffe before they really want to. Little needs him to stay on so he can take over early next year.
March 15th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
My gawd, are the left still banging on about this. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
The problem Goff has in making decisions that suit the Labour Party over some left wing rival is that they campaign in the centre against National and left wing members see that as marginalising them within their own party. Whereas ACT is being protected in Epsom by National showing that it wants a to the right ally.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Not sure what you mean jaba, I was simply referring to the poor lighting in that clip.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
trout, Goff with his left arm around Parker and Key with his right arm around Warne.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
I am among those who are faced with the problem of not wanting National as government but increasingly unable to contemplate Labour as it is currently constituted. It does seem completely reactionary without credible policies scrambling for power without principle.
I disagree strongly with many of Nationals policies but see no opposition with the preferable policies I wish to support and I fear the lack of credible opposition will permit National to move to greater extremes I will regret coming to pass.
Goff must go and as much as it might gall many egos Labour should bite the bullet and clean house now rather than wait for the face saving of a loss at election time. Imagine how much harder it’ll be to rebuild support if this election they are completely humiliated by peoples disappointment in them.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Speaking of ACT, who else thinks they’ve decided they want to be the NZ TEA party and have started working from that play book?
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Shock Doctrine politics for those who listen to talk radio or watch Fox News?
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
I think he has reached a point where he will not be able to get any traction at all regardless of what he says or does. Once people have completely lost confidence you cannot win it back. Labor must be feeling pretty sick with this situation so close to the election. To close to roll him but heading for a spanking.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Seems like no one’s got this up yet so here’s Hone’s response in Parliament on the way to question time today…
“I think Phil Goff’s got a bit of an image problem. I think he needs to be clear about his leadership style. He can’t say last week that he will work with me and then this week that he won’t.
“I think he really needs to be clear about what it is he wants to achieve.”
Q. Doesn’t that leave you out in the cold though?
“Not particularly. I know that if, as the polls predict, particularly the Maori polls, I come back in with at least two or three other MPs.
“If that’s required for me to get into government with either Labour or National, Phil Goff will be ringing me as quickly as anybody else.”
Q. Would you ever consider working with National?
“That option doesn’t appeal, but it’s really a decision that the people have to make.”
Q. But you won’t rule that out?
“I think, like Phil Goff, it would be foolish to rule out anything in election year.”
Q. So you’d like to keep all of those options open?
“Those options have to stay open, absolutely.”
Q. How does it feel that he’s ruled you out and not Winston Peters?
“Well it’s his argument. He’s saying it’s an issue of reliability. But given that Winston’s already been sacked three times, how reliable is that option.
“That’s why I say, I think Phil’s got an issue with his image, and his leadership style. I think he needs to be clear about what he wants to achieve.
“I think he needs to be honest with his Maori MPs too, because he didn’t ask them, before he made the decision that he couldn’t work with me.”
Q. Could you work with Winston Peters?
“I could work with anybody in this place, if it’s to advance the situation of Maori in this country.”
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
Q: Who is Imperator Fish?
A: Imperator Fish is a blogger who is also a patent attorney. His name is Scott (not sure whether that is something Scott or Scott something)
Q: Is Imperator Fish really left wing as Farrar claims?
A: Read his blog and decide for yourself. Note that he describes himself as “viciously moderate” (nice touch), also that he dumps on John Minto, Mike Moore, Jeanette Fitzsimons, Len Brown and Andrew Williams. Hardly likely targets for a dedicated left winger, much more likely to come from an independent thinker.
Q: Why would Farrar describe IF as a leftwinger despite strong evidence to contrary? Why ís a fishy opinion suddenly so important?
A: Because it suits his argument. Farrar wants to paint IF as a disgruntled Labour supporter who is turning against the party because of Phil Goff. The fishy opinion is suddenly credible because it suits Farrar’s game to make it so.
Q: Isn’t that dishonest?
A: Yes.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
@ Maggie; Robert Guyton (Greenfly; Village Idiot) is forever dropping links to Imperator Fish on Keeping Stock, and I figure thatif Mr Guyton (well known Green Party activist) reckons that Scott’s opinion is worthy of consideration, then Imperator Fish certainly ain’t a right-wing blog!
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
@ Maggie – considering IF has described HIMSELF as a ‘natural Labour voter’, where does that leave your immature swipe at our host?
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Maggie interviewing themself, how typical of a socialist nutjob to do that to ensure they get the approved answers.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Nah, we have the Labour leadership problem fixed, we are giving an offer to Simon Power to change parties and become the Labour leader with a good chance of becoming PM
Vote:Yep something is wrong when a grizzly old Labour type wishes Power was leader of Labour.
Got to get more GOOD talent in Labour, not bloody time servers for the back benches.
March 15th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
Inventory2 (BTW what happened to Inventory1?): I’ve never heard of Robert Guyton, why should I consider his opinion to be gospel? Fish has plenty of rightwing targets. Did I say he was rightwing? No, I didn’t, I suggested he was an independent thinker.
Bevan, he can call himself anything he likes. I prefer to judge by what he writes rather than what he says about himself. Many people who aren’t leftwing vote Labour, anyway, my mother did for years. You need to recognise there are some people who are neither left nor right. I know you will find that frightening, just take a valium and lie down.
Thank you, Chris, for believing I am so impressive there must be more than one of me. But don’t bother with the silly names next time, it just makes you look childish.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
I think all of us Maggie are very very disappointed in Liarbore and its complete and utter lack of principal and vision. Why even traditional voters like Fentex @ 3:25 are dismayed and appalled.
It would appear the only people who still support Liarbore are fanatics and people with vested interests: i.e. they work for it or they get something significant themselves from a Liarbore victory.
And given how much opportunity Liarbore has of making hay what with everything that’s been happening, isn’t his current inability to make any traction at all in any way just a totally appalling and ghastly reflection on the ability and competence of your Party Leader?
He’d better watch out at the annual conference, the delegates might tar and feather him.
It’s all very, very sad isn’t it.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Grumpy
Vote:Did you read that the Samoans are sick of being Labour Vote Fodder? Soon Labour will only be able to rely on Unionists, School Teachers one and the same really. Phil is pissing the rest of the voters off with his Flip Flops. Come Election time will Labour get 25% of the vote?
March 15th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
I’d have to disagree with IF about Hone, when you hear Hone express his “mind” you hear his mother. Hone is, like all males around Titewhai, incapable of independent expression. Everyone outside the North recognizes Hone’s position as a puppet, so he’s a one (or just possibly maybe two electorate) pony.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
@ Maggie; this’ll give you an idea about which side of the fence Robert Guyton sits:
http://robertguyton.blogspot.com/2011/03/key-grins-like-loon-as-japan-suffers.html
PS: You won’t find him here anymore; he’s been banned for life for persistent trolling
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Why are Goff’s lies any worse then Key’s? Arguably Key’s are far worse as he actually has an impact on the country, not like the career mp who will never win an election.
No GST increases…lie
Vote:No “world leading” carbon policies which harm growth….lie
Cutting WFF as it is “communism by stealth”… lie
March 15th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Robert Guyton is the village idiot in Invercargill, not Tim Shadbolt. He has wangled a way onto the gravy train with Environment Southland and is a teacher at local schools.
He had the bright idea that all of Christchurch should use composting toilets. Forgetting that not everybody there lived on a large parcel of land.
He wants to see us all living in a utopia of his design and is well and truly a typical green member. All lies and supercilious superiority complex.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
Hi David, thanks for the link to my site.
Just a couple of points to add.
Maggie, I should probably correct one minor error, if only because any of my colleagues who might read this thread will give me grief. ‘m not actually a patent attorney. I am an IP lawyer who works with lots of patent attorneys, but I haven’t sat the patent exams and probably won’t any time soon (and they’re murderously hard as well). My role is more around IP commercialisation than drafting patents.
I like the label “independent thinker”, but then who wouldn’t? Everyone likes to think they’re capable of independent thought and that they’re not simply a partisan hack churning out the same old party line. But I won’t pretend I sit squarely in the middle, and realistically I’m probably more to the left than the right – maybe a moderate leftie. Yes, they do exist. I don’t belong to any political party and, while I may incline towards Labour, they’re really pissing me off right now.
I may forgive them yet, but they have work to do.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
“All lies and supercilious superiority complex.”
Where does that come from?, so many Greens have that about them.
It is almost as if they believe that eventually we will all wake up and see that only the Greens have the answers, we will all rush to them and place our lives totally in their control (because something as complicated as a life cannot possibly be left in the hands of an undedicated ‘normal’ person)
I really don’t know where they get it from, you see it daily from the female co leader of the Greens, come to think of it, you see it from every single one of the pricks in the house.
Thank goodness they are soon going to be part of our political history and not our political future.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
All this talk about Phil Goff reminds me of Bolger in the 1993 campaign. You all may recall that the Nats went into that election with a huge majority and nearly got upset. What was funny on election night is that Mike Moore had two prepared speeches; one for a most unlikely win; and the other for the odds on pop that Labour would lose. In Mike’s hurry to get to the Tv studio he picked up the incorrect speech and proceeded to speak as if Labour had won. It was remarkable.
But my point is that Bolger had pissed me off with his attitude throughout the campaign. Then, on election night he was interviewed from a piss up in Te Kuiti. The political minders were all at Welliington or Auckland, so he spoke from the heart. I watched and listened to his speech with my Jim Beam in my hand. I nearly spilled my drink when he finished; it was the only time that he had spoken well during the whole campaign. As I said to the missus,
“If that bastard had spoken like that during the election campaign I would have voted for him, and given his party some of my hard earned.”
Bolger had an army of consultants working for him telling him what to do and how to look and what to say. He sounded wooden and boring. Then when the minders were away we saw the real man, and I liked what I saw, but that was after the election when the minders were poncing about Ponsonby Road and Courteney Place.
Goff is taking too much notice of his minders and should go back to being the real man that he is.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Inventory2 all your link proves is Guyton doesn’t appreciate a leader who behaves like a clown. He probably prefers a PM you can take seriously.
SBY, thanks for the correction, I did wonder at the time, but patent attorney sounds so better than patent lawyer.
Sorry, reid, but I really can’t take seriously someone whose sole contribution is using silly names. If you ever grow up talk to me again.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
Maggie
Come on then..give us a laugh, name a leader in the current Parliament who we could take seriously.
Vote:March 15th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
Tauhei, I remember that Bolger speech too. I wouldn’t have voted for him then but I thought what a good speech was, wow, maybe he’s not so bad after all, and it did change my mind about him, for a short while, until he went back to wooden.
And yes, I suspect Goff is the similar, except that he seems to alternate between different teams of handlers.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 5:48 am
@ Maggie; all your comment proves is that you are totally out of touch. Ask any of the 10,000 plus who were at the Bsin Reserve on Sunday what they think of John Key, and you might just get a handle on why he is the most popular PM in living memory. The left can’t get a handle on Key, and it’s pretty obvious that it upsets them when they have to resport to low-level smears, or outright abuse as so frequently happens at The Standard.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 7:57 am
“…I really can’t take seriously someone whose sole contribution is using silly names.”
You mean Liarbore? As I’ve said before Maggie, once Liarbore stops using pavlovian dog-whistle propaganda phrases such as “failed policies of the 90′s” then I’ll reconsider my use of Liarbore.
Let me know when Liarbore decides to stop doing that, won’t you.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 8:01 am
reid – maybe we can start using labour tactics and refer to the failed policies of the 2000′s …..
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 9:01 am
The problem is Double d is that the failed policies of the 00′s were the failed policies of the 80′s. If Labour want to gain some traction in the polls then they need to start get some people and policies who are relevant to today’s voters.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 9:11 am
maggie There’s no point berating these old blokes. They think silly names are hilarious. Same with personal abuse which gets them all hysterical.
I don’t agree with you either but it would be good to see the standard of argument on this blog raised above playground insults.
For instance, why does the media allow Goff to get away with loaded comments like it being time for John Key to ‘come clean’ about the (yawn) RWC as though the PM is concealing deep, dark secrets rather than the decision not yet having been officially made.
I would love a journalist (if we have any left) to take Goff to task over his constant flip flops and contradictions. If we are to place an informed vote in November we deserve as thorough an examination of the main opposition party as we get of the government.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Beab, it seems clear that Labour have decided on a strategy of “exposing” Key’s dithering over just about everything. One problem with this is Goff sounds dithery doing it.
The best response from National would to appear bold and decisive. Even better – they could become bold and decisive!
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 9:54 am
The Southland Times has a nice editorial on Goff and Harawira. Goff is likened to Uriah Heep.
Vote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/4771888/Doesn-t-play-nicely-with-others
March 16th, 2011 at 11:32 am
Pete George
Vote:I got so tired of Helen Clark sounding bold and decisive all the time that John Key’s measured approach – we’ll take advice, have a think and then present us with a decision or some options very appealing. I think the national temperature has usefully been lowered a little even if the media does like to whip up the haters, wreckers and whingers.
The problem with Phil Goff is that silly walk and even sillier tone he adopts – like a short guy trying to assert himself. He sounds limp and lame. He has a probably fatal inability to be authentic, possibly because we know he has never had to prove himself in the ‘real world’ and he is reliant so much on the advice of his handlers.
I just hope the public doesn’t confuse ‘bold and decisive’ with making ill-considered decisions on the wing.
These are serious times that call for serious thought and serious action. That can’t be done in an instant.
March 16th, 2011 at 11:50 am
***if someone like me, who should be a natural Labour voter, is seriously wondering why he should bother voting for them, how many others are there in the same situation? ***
There are probably a few people who feel the same way about National given their rush to push the Marine and Coastal Area Bill through.
“14 March 2011
Through amendments in the massive 73 page Supplementary Order Paper 207, which changes almost every clause in the Marine and Coastal Area Bill, the National Party is planning to enshrine in law exclusive race based fishing zones”, Dr Hugh Barr, spokesman for the Coastal Coalition said today.”
http://www.nzcpr.com/CoastalCoalition.htm
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
big bruv, currently there isn’t any leader in Parliament you could take seriously. Hope that gives you a laugh.
Inventoryt2: I don’t know what the 10,000 think of John Key, nor do I care. I know what I think of him. He’s popular because he is an expert salesman and tells people what they want to hear. Many like that. Superficially he is very attractive. Underneath there is nothing. He’s an ego on legs, totally empty. A blank wall for people to write whatever they want to read.
BeaB, you are absolutely right, of course, about the old blokes. Coves like reid are spoiled children with a ‘look at me, aren’t I clever’ act. When they are caught, it’s always someone else’s fault, reid is a wonderful example of the ‘I called him names, but he made me do it’ syndrome.
Like you, I’d love journalists to be more probing – but not just to one side. I’d like them not to be constantly seduced by a smile and good teeth, who would take the government apart when Brownlie wanders around the West Coast promising a stimulus package and then Key pulls the rug out from under. With a smirk on his face, of course.
Is the way someone walks really THAT important?
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
The way someone walks is not usually important but when Phil does that silly swaggery strut it is part of the body language that is shouting to us, “I am not the real thing! I am a career politician! I came into Parliament during the Muldoon era! I am yesterday’s man trying to look young and virile again! Please please vote for me!”
No wonder John Key just smiles. He knows, as do we, that he is the Real Thing.
I am just watching Phil on TV trying to look very grave as he probes the weighty matter of what advice the govt and IRB have received about the RWC. Who gives a toss when we have so many more important issues on our plate? Empty man; empty issues.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Maggie
Everything you say is hilarious, but thanks for the answer.
Given you have no faith in our current parliamentarians can you tell me who you see as the ideal leader of NZ ?
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
Me.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
No, BeaB, Key doesn’t smile, it is much more of a smirk.
Tell John Key the RWC is an empty issue. I dare you, that might wipe the smirk of his face.
When a British journalist correctly predicted Christchurch would not be ready, who was first to leap in with a rebuttal, Bea? John Key.
Key’s smirk says: “I am very clever. You people are so stupid I could sell you anything. Wanna buy a used car?”
I have no faith in Goff, don’t think he has what it takes to be a real leader. Nothing to do with his walk, haven’t even noticed it.
Interesting that while Key has been all over the topic of Christchurch and the Cup, he suddenly goes missing and leaves McCully to make the announcement. What courage.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Interesting that while Key has been all over the topic of Christchurch and the Cup, he suddenly goes missing and leaves McCully to make the announcement.
Perhaps he took note of what Hulun used to do, all the time.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Back to your sandpit, sonny, with the other children.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
heh is maggie trev? I think so. Same modus operandi.
Vote:If not who cares..same lying smirking holier than thou attitude.
No wonder voters are over you sanctimonious tossers.
And you have the audacity to call key “smile & wave”
Hypocrites
March 16th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Isnt it funny how the namecallers become more amd more hysterical and nasty when they’re on the defensive?
Of course I’m Trevor. I’m also Mother Teresa, Napoleon Boneparte and Mrs Ethel Scrugg, of 172 Robottom Road East Finchley. Couldn’t you tell?
I could join the game. reid would become greed (he’s a Tory, after all), the PM could be called John Coy (very apt right now) and Bill would, of course, be always DD (Double Dipton), McCully could be McGillicuddy……
But no, wouldn’t soil my lillywhite fingers with all that muck.
Vote:March 16th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
you seem a very unhappy person Maggie.
breathe ….. deeply
life aint so bad
Vote:March 17th, 2011 at 5:36 am
What sort of political system have we wrought upon ourselves to have our futures decided by whether Hide or Peters gets in to parliament. Surely that scares the crap out of most people.
Vote:March 18th, 2011 at 10:54 am
Dd, you’re not Bill English are you?
Vote: