PPTA settles

March 16th, 2011 at 5:25 pm by David Farrar

Subject to ratification, the pay dispute and strike action looks to be over. Congrats to both sides for the settlement.

It will be interesting to see what variation there is between the settlement and earlier offers.

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28 Responses to “PPTA settles”

  1. jaba (2,069 comments) says:

    can’t wait

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  2. RRM (8,994 comments) says:

    Surely there’s been some mistake here? The teacher’s union are dirty socialists, and we know in our hearts that there’s going to be no reasoning with them, ever?

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  3. Murray (8,835 comments) says:

    They are dirty socialists. They finally worked out that they as much public support as a crooked used car salesman.

    BTW we’re conservatives, we don’t have hearts. You commie dickheads tell us that all the time. Try and stick to your story.

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  4. Mr Nobody NZ (396 comments) says:

    Come on Murray, that’s comment very unfair. Used car salesmen have much more extensive public support than the PPTA.

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  5. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    The frustration here is so evident. The evil union has settled without industrial action.

    How dreadful…….who do we hate, now?

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  6. trout (865 comments) says:

    They would have been told by their CTU masters than Union action in an election year (especially when the country is broke and a lot of people are struggling) is counterproductive. Perhaps teachers are not stupid.

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  7. big bruv (12,380 comments) says:

    On the subject of teachers, I heard today on the radio that the Tolley wants to talk to the schools (and the unions) about changing the school year in Christchurch, given the earthquake she has suggested that a change in the scheduled school holidays may be in order because the students (especially those studying for NCEA) are three weeks behind.

    The response from the teachers union at this stage is ………and it is a goody…….that their staff will not be available to work during the school holidays.

    Unbelievable.

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  8. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    This thread is about a contract settlement. Stick the topic or you’ll get marked down.

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  9. lofty (1,295 comments) says:

    Maggie asks “who do we hate now?”

    I have never hated anyone in my life…intense dislike and even contempt, but hate, never.

    I may well make an exception to my rule.

    I reckon maggie is spud :-)…same intellect, same debating skills….zero…

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  10. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Debating skills? When was calling people names debating?

    So you’ve never hated anyone in your life……

    Did you know there is a religion named after you?

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  11. BeaB (1,958 comments) says:

    Maggie No industrial action? You’re joking. The reason why there were so many kids wandering round Christchurch the day of the earthquake is that the teachers were on one of their ‘strikes’. Just look back to last year and the run up to NCEA exams. Roling strikes etc throughout the country – for weeks on end.
    One of the reasons they do it this way is that it makes it almost impossible to dock their pay so they don’t have to sacrifice their comfy middle class lives.
    And all for 1/2% and a free flu shot!

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  12. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    BeaB

    You are wrong.

    Teachers in Auckland fully expected to lose pay for their stoppages but the bosses paid them anyway. You would have to ask them why, but please don’t subvert the discussion.

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  13. BeaB (1,958 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen
    Not true in my experience. I was part of many PPTA branch discussions where the disruption to classes was planned on a rolling basis throughout each week so no teachers lost any pay. One school branch that decided every teacher would donate a day’s pay to compensate any teacher who might have pay docked was red-faced when the fund total was exactly ZERO! Your experience may well be different but that doesn’t invalidate mine.

    Secondary teachers enjoy the thrill of faux working class solidarity without the sacrifices.

    I fail to see how that subverts the discussion considering Maggie informed us no industrial action had been taken! Or is it just the la la land the teachers’ unions inhabit and the alternate reality we are meant to accept?

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  14. bc (1,252 comments) says:

    I haven’t commented on this site for a while. There is so much negativity that I decided that this site can be bad for your health!
    But BeaB, your comment has pulled me back in (well done I suppose!).
    First of all it is blatantly untrue. I can only presume this is deliberate. So let’s get that bit out of the way:
    THERE HAS BEEN NO STRIKE ACTION FROM TEACHERS THIS YEAR (this includes rolling strikes).
    Your comment that teachers were on one of “their strikes” during the day of the earthquake is an outright lie.

    Your lying doesn’t bother me so much, I’m come to accept that – but you deserve to have your lies pointing out to you.

    The thing that really bothers me is your constant teacher bashing. I’ve seen teachers and students doing the most amazing fundraising over the last couple of weeks: mufti days, gala days, talent contests, musicals – the list goes on. To say that teachers are self-centered “over 1/2% and a flu shot” when so much time and effort has been put into fundraising is insulting.
    On the day of the earthquake in Christchurch teachers stayed with students until their parents could get to them, despite them having their own houses, children, family to be worried about. This means nothing to you.

    Teacher bashing seems to be a favourite pastime of yours and a few others on this site. I’m beginning to think that Maggie is right – now that there is a settlement offer that is supported by the union, you lot won’t be able to engage in your favourite pastime so much. Even DPF who has done more than his fair share of presenting lies as truths and teacher bashing at least has the decency to congratulate both sides.

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  15. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    It seems the Ministry of Education has finally upped their offer. Secondary school principals settled last month. The details for principals were:

    An average pay increase of 5% across a settlement of just over two years (to March 2013) but the range varies for individuals from 3.7% to 6.7%, depending on experience. It does this through the introduction of secondary-specific career structure payments: $3500 after three years, $7000 after six and $10,500 after nine.

    Boards must have a professional development plan in place as part of the introduction of the career payment and principals will need to meet professional criteria to receive each payment.

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  16. BeaB (1,958 comments) says:

    bc Don’t get yourself confused. The PPTA action and the efforts of individual teachers are often poles apart. You should read more of what I say. I always give credit to the good work of teachers and actually was the first on this blog to commend them for the trust parents could place in them in a crisis.

    The fundraising has no connection at all with PPTA action – unless there was a motive those of us who have given generously are unaware of. If so, come clean.

    So was it a teacher only day in ChCh the day of the quake that led to so many teenagers being round town? We know from news reports they were not expected to be in class.

    It’s a funny old world when any negative comment about unions immediately arouses the shrill cry of teacher-bashing. I sincerely hope you’re not a teacher because your addled thinking would baffle our clever youngsters.

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  17. BeaB (1,958 comments) says:

    bc It doesn’t happen often among the adults I mix with that we fling round over-excited accusations of lying so I used the chance tonight to spend time with a group of high shcool teachers to find out if indeed I was wrong about no industrial action this year as you so stridently assert.
    In fact there has been action and of the most disruptive kind for any school at the beginning of the year. The PPTA placed a ban on all meetings and work usually done before the kids turn up – class allocations, last minute timetabling, course structures, department meetings, course advice for seniors, induction of new teachers etc etc etc. All that had to be done when the kids had already turned up or groups had to be sent home so teachers could get the work done. A frustrating and untidy start to the year and distressing for many staff and students.

    The PPTA seems to have the idea that any work outside actual class time is done through the good will of teachers. If this is true then teachers are extremely well paid for a 5 hour day and 13 weeks holiday a year. Actually the reason they are paid a generous salary is that their work hours are much longer than just face-to face time with students.

    Perhaps the solution is to expect all teachers to put in a full 8 hour day on site (as many do already and often more) and take the usual holidays for most of us, that is about half what they take now. Then all the other jobs that accompany teaching can be done as an accepted part of the job, not regarded as an act of benevolence by individuals.

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  18. bc (1,252 comments) says:

    Wow BeaB you’ve done it again. Changed what I said to suit your own purposes.
    Let’s look back at what I said – I even put it in caps for you!!

    THERE HAS BEEN NO STRIKE ACTION FROM TEACHERS THIS YEAR (this includes rolling strikes).

    I did NOT say that there has been no industrial action, that is you altering my words. The out of hours meetings ban has continued this year – the purpose of which is to highlight the extra work teachers put in for no extra pay such as overtime.
    And before you start moaning about how that is unfair on the students (because BeaB you are so predictable) there has been NO ban on things that students are directly involved in such as camps, extra curricular activities such as sports teams, prizegivings etc. The out of hours bans have solely been on adminstration. A very generous sign of good faith by teachers really considering the outrageous attitude of the government.

    So BeaB, good try but massive FAIL. You see BeaB, people like you need to be called out on your deceit.
    Now onto your 4.17pm post ….

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  19. bc (1,252 comments) says:

    Ok BeaB let’s look at the last sentence of your 4.17pm post:
    “It’s a funny old world when any negative comment about unions immediately arouses the shrill cry of teacher-bashing. I sincerely hope you’re not a teacher because your addled thinking would baffle our clever youngsters.”

    So you are making comments about the unions BeaB not the teachers, is that it? (Nice touch by the way with the personal attack at the end to avoid being accountable). Let’s look back at your earlier comments:

    “The reason why there were so many kids wandering round Christchurch the day of the earthquake is that the teachers were on one of their strikes”
    Teachers mentioned there – and also a lie as I’ve pointed out. Next…

    “One of the reasons they do it this way is that it makes it almost impossible to dock their pay so they don’t have to sacrifice their comfy middle class lives.”
    ‘They’ being teachers of course. Next…

    “Secondary teachers enjoy the thrill of faux working class solidarity without the sacrifices.”
    That word ‘teachers’ again.

    So BeaB, good try at playing at being misunderstood so as to make me out as being “addled”. But you are the queen of teacher bashing. Stop the lies BeaB.

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  20. JIB (2 comments) says:

    Dear BeaB,

    Clarification #1:- Students out of school in Chch on the day of the earthquake was not due to industrial action but as a result of a paid union meeting.

    Clarification #2:- I notice that you make no mention of the key demands which staff are prepared to take industrial action over – namely class sizes and the loss of key working conditions such as the right to have planning time to prepare for classes.

    A generous salary? Extremely well-paid? Compared with what and whom, exactly?

    Perhaps it has escaped your notice that teachers in NZ aren’t paid as well as their colleagues in Australia – one of the causes of the current trained teacher shortage is active recruitment from overseas – and your suggestion of a further deterioration in their working conditions (your solution above) would certainly accelerate the move overseas. Teachers, like all members of the NZ working community, will continue to explore the opportunities to earn money in Australia – especially when the terms and conditions there are inherently favourable. To deny this is absurd escapism, especially when you seem so intent on implicitly referring to the power of the market forces in NZ. Compare the lack of a viable teachers pension scheme in NZ with that available in other countries, the UK (for example) will still retain a pension scheme even after the current administration finishes hacking at it, and it becomes quite a strong argument to move overseas rather than being beggared and pilloried here in NZ.

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  21. BeaB (1,958 comments) says:

    bc What an unpleasantly hectoring tone you adopt. I hope you don’t talk to your students like that, poor kids.
    Don’t be disingenuous. If you don’t go to meetings and carry out your usual duties at the start of the year then of course you are on strike, even if you try to disguise the fact by pretending class time is the only employment requirement placed on teachers. Meetings, marking, preparation etc are not ‘extras’, they are part of the job.
    Perhaps it is time to arrange the working year for teachers along the same lines as for most public servants so that all the out of class activities that are an integral part of the job are clarified and accounted for within the annual salary.
    If they want overtime, then perhaps an hourly wage should be negotiated.
    And, as always, good teachers will do far more as they always do and the rest (thankfully a minority) will do as little as they can get away with. Like most workers.

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  22. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Anyone connecting with BeaB should remember they are talking to someone who doesn’t like Phil Goff because of his walk.

    Not much depth there, I’m afraid.

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  23. RightNow (6,348 comments) says:

    JIB – while teachers may find better conditions in Australia, so might most private sector employees, from whose taxes the public sector are paid. I’m more worried about private sector employees emigrating than teachers. I expect there’s a ratchet clause in effect for teacher’s pay meaning it will only ever increase, but if it’s too far out of balance with the tax base then all of NZ gets deeper in the hole. Public sector remuneration needs to be very carefully managed – ideally it should be indexed to equivalent private sector remuneration, including benefits and leave.

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  24. BeaB (1,958 comments) says:

    Maggie I actually like Phil and have known him for years. But that’s beside the point. I recommend you swot up on body language and see if you can see what many of us see so clearly – a man out of his depth and trying to be what he’s not.

    Happy to be as shallow as a puddle – in your opinion.

    JIB I have former colleagues working in both Australia and the UK and the grass isn’t always greener. Wherever you live in NZ you enjoy a national salary scale and a young teacher after 5 or 6 years can be earning $70,000. Not bad at all for the short day and weeks of holidays the PPTA insists are their right. And take a look at the very generous pay increases over the last decade – close to 50% – much more than most people.

    I always regarded both as the great perk of the job and loved having so much holiday time with the family. But we have a serious job in NZ to lift achievement in the long tail of under-achieving kids whose talents we cannot afford to let go to waste.

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  25. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Have you ever sugges6ted to Phil he change the way he walks?

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  26. Nookin (2,891 comments) says:

    Course she has Maggie. Everyone has told him he has got to pull his finger out!

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  27. JIB (2 comments) says:

    I don’t disagree RightNow, there must be a mechanism between public sector pay and private sector pay – I would very happily settle for one which links teacher’s pay to the bonuses currently being paid to the banking industry. My recall is that it was the fiscal imprudence of the private sector banking industry that landed everyone in the current mess, rather than teachers seeking to maintain (never mind improve) their standards of living. Besides, if the National Party wishes to purchase fleets of foreign luxury cars to shuttle its minsters around, who am I to complain at the misuse of taxpayers’ money?

    BeaB. Having worked in the UK from 1998 until 2010, I can quite happily confirm that you are very, very wrong with respect to that country. I would welcome the evidence of a young teacher earning $70,000… I take it that you are looking at a staff member who has taken on significant management responsibilities, rather than comparing like-for-like. You overlook the argument raised about class sizes- why? Do you have evidence that large class sizes have effective educational outcomes other than cost reduction?

    As for short days and long holidays – well, I have worked in a number of industries (commercial predominantly, with construction & retail management being the most significant) prior to re-training as a teacher. None of my employers nor clients expected that I would offer up huge amounts of my time outside of the hours in which they expected me to work free of charge. Equally, I was rewarded with significant cost-of-living increases and excellent conditions by those industries in which unions were strongest. It is simply not accurate to portray teaching as having short days compared to other industries – I worked less hours outside of teaching – nor to whinge about the weeks of holidays when the demands of the job far outstrip any other employment I’ve experienced – including guiding and leading hazardous activies in the mountains around the world.

    Of course, you’ll not overlook the fact that all of the inmates of NZ prisons and asylums were all taught by somebody, somewhere, because criminality and insanity do not suddenly happen at age 18! There can be few teachers who have never faced undiagnosed mental illness or criminality within their teaching groups, all will relate how it impacts on them and how long it can take to overcome the pressures of dealing with such individuals. Nor will it seem unrealistic to reflect on teachers’ pay and conditions in countries such as Canada and France which far outstrip those of the UK, Australia and NZ.

    Your final point is a good one, there is a serious job to do which can only be achieved effectively with an engaged motivated profession, not one which is poorly paid and subject to the political machinations of a National Party more interested in running down the public services to save a dollar. I can’t recall a single industry in world history which attempted to reduce the pay (in real terms) and conditions of its workers… and then achieved its goals. However, there are many examples of industries which listened to the professionals and worked with them to achieve goals – these were successful.

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  28. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Maybe BeaB is a retired teacher still living in her fondly remembered past, probably as a primary school teacher in a little country haven.

    We have a highly ranked education system internationally, staffed by a generally skilled and dedicated profession. But all National wants to do is dumb it down for cost savings. Just stupid. Education failed them, for sure.

    And RightNow, there is no ratchet clause in teachers pay agreements – every increase is fought for.

    BeaB, the last five years have seen teachers receive catch up awards for previous years when they allowed themselves to be ripped off and fall behind the rate of inflation – that’s a pay decrease.

    I still remember my 7th form English teacher standing for parliament and worried that if he won, he would take a pay cut to become an MP. I don’t think teachers would be so worried these days. Why can’t we all be indexed to MP’s pay?

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