Dom Post on Easter Trading
April 27th, 2011 at 11:00 am by David FarrarThe Dom Post editorial:
National MP Tau Henare’s plan for a private member’s bill allowing shops to open on Good Friday and Easter Sunday will be the ninth attempt in 15 years to bring some sense to trading laws long past their sell-by date.
This time, Parliament should seize the opportunity to repeal rules which are archaic and riddled with anomalies to the point of being ridiculous.
However, there is little to indicate the Government will have the courage to lead the way.
If history is anything to go by, Mr Henare’s bill will be considered as a conscience vote and fail at its first hurdle, defeated by the usual – and unusual – alliance of Labour, National and Green MPs. Those who vote against it will do so on the grounds of guarding workers’ rights or protecting the sanctity of the most important festival in the Christian calendar – or, in some cases, both.
The unholy alliance of unions and churches.
The list of anomalies is as laughable as it is long. A person can buy or sell a house on Good Friday or Easter Sunday, when real estate agents are allowed to open, but they cannot buy a bottle of bubbly to celebrate – unless they get it from the vineyard on which it was made.
A garden centre can open on Easter Sunday, but not Good Friday – a rule ignored by many as the huge demand easily brings in more than the $1000 fine. Bookstores at airports, train stations and other transport hubs can open, but those in shopping centres must stay closed. Perhaps most glaringly of all, brothels can open on Good Friday and Easter Sunday to sell sex, but those with bars are breaking the law if they sell alcohol.
It is hilarious that brothels can open, but not bars. I wonder if the brothels can sell alcohol?
The usual suspects defend their decisions to ban employees from earning overtime on those days, on the proposition that employers are so evil and callousthey they will break the law and force employees to work against their wills.
On Twitter the other day I asked a Labour activist if he could name a single employer that has done this. I said I’ve worked for around 20 employers and none forced me to work against my will. He also was unable to name a single employer – saying none of his former employers had. But he insisted that it was widespread all the same. Never mind the lack of emperical evidence.
But this got me thinking. Wouldn’t it be useful if the Government or Dept of Labour did a random scientific survey of employees in retailers, to ascertain how many currently have employers who force them to work on days they don’t want to, and also perhaps to look at annual leave taking – do they get to choose when to take annual leave, or does their employer over-ride their wishes.
It would be a great boon to informed debate to have some good data about how employees and employers currently interact.
Related posts:
- My annual rant on Easter trading
- Easter Trading Bill
- Views galore on Easter Trading
- Rudman on Easter
April 27th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
Perhaps most glaringly of all, brothels can open on Good Friday and Easter Sunday to sell sex
Oh NOW you tell me. Where was this editorial last Wednesday when it was most needed?
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
“The usual suspects defend their decisions to ban employees from earning overtime on those days, on the proposition that employers are so evil and callousthey they will break the law and force employees to work against their wills.”
When you use that kind of hyperbole you invite similar veined comparisons to National’s law changes such as the one requiring a medical certificate for a day’s sick leave, because employees constantly take sick days when they are in fact perfectly healthy but are just lazy buggers off fishing or otherwise enjoying them selves.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Don’t know why a sick employee would be bothered about providing a medical certificate. Getting people to visit doctors more is good for overall health.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
“Never mind the lack of emperical evidence”
We could say the same to you. You provide only anecdotal evidence from your perspective to insist on law changes. But I agree that I would like to see further research, but this would have to be done very carefully and confidentially. We do not want employees to fear for their jobs and we do not want employers to perceive it as a witch-hunt.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
I worked in fast food when I was at university and *everyone* wanted to work on stat holidays because they got paid a heap more and got a day off some other time to make up for it.
It wouldn’t bother me if *everything* did have to shut on Good Friday but could we at least have a consistant rule?! It’s all the exceptions that make the “holiday” laughable. Either make everything shut (except emergency services and the like) or let everyone open if they choose, like they do on any other day.
The worst thing about forcing shops to close is if I own a shop, let all the staff take the day off, but want to open it myself. I’m not even allowed to do that even though I’m letting all my staff have the day off.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@Sonny Blount: next time you wake up with a really nasty cold, try getting an appointment that day at your local doctor. And if you get one, see how good it is for your “overall health” to drag yourself out the door and up the road just for a piece of paper which says “Sonny Blount has a cold today”. If you can’t, and you feel better the next day, try taking an hour off work to get a piece of paper which says “Sonny Blount had a cold yesterday”.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Here in South Australia the shops all close on Good Friday and Easter Sunday. All the people I talk to in shops, proprietors and staff alike, love it. This all get themselves a few rare days to spend with their families.
Are Kiwis too thick to buy on Thursday what they need on Friday? So it seems.
O/T but I’m sure Sue Bradford will have noticed that yesterday in the Waikato there were three more names to add to her shameful record. It’s London to a brick these poor bashed kids are all Maori.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
I am always amazed at how somebody who campaigned on freedom of speech and democracy is hell bent on forcing all workers to give up their Easter holiday because he believes it is a matter of principle.
I would wager that most who want the shops open so they can shop on THEIR Easter break are the very people who will never be forced to work those days.
Never mind….Henare’s (who is a complete moron at the best of times) bill will fail at the first hurdle just like every other bill, this will leave people like me to enjoy the Easter break and to enjoy hearing he moaning of all those who just cannot do without a beer or flat white on the 3.5 days a year the shops are closed.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Some employees, I’d guess a significant number, take sick days off when they are not sick. They do it for a variety of reasons, they may have had a hard weekend, can’t be bothered, have something else they want to do etc etc. A common attitude is that all of your sick leave is yours to use up whenever you feel like it.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Whilst not being able to get an appointment is a relative point, the comment implying that a trip to the doctor is bad for your health is silly.
As an employer, the main reason I want staff to visit a doctor is to get treatment and avoid extended periods of illness that pass through the workplace.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
In theory I don’t see why we shouldn’t have some shop-free days but in practice it’s an unmanageable mess. And there is no shortage of lemming shoppers. I’m amazed that what for me is a quiet lazy break after Christmas is now for many a Boxing Day frenzy.
It doesn’t really bother me, I don’t have to work weekends or Public Holidays. I happily lasted four days at Easter without wanting to shop – except I did go to the Farmers Market on Saturday.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
What I don’t get is why all this moaning about easter tading laws, but none about ANZAC day morning or Christmass day. It does make it feel like an anti-christian thing. And its not just about people having the time of, its an issue of respect, like ANZAC day is. 3.5 days out of 365 isn’t harsh.
Are there plenty of exemptions for these days, or whats the case?
What could be compromise could be to allow everything to open Good Friday morning only, so the afternoon when Christ died still has its shops shut. Everything is closed Good Friday afternoon, no exceptions, and the fines can be increased form $1000 to $10 000 with an aditional $200 for each employee working on the closed days for the first offence, with $15000 and $300 for second offence in 10 years, with $20 000 and and $400 for the third offence and so forth. This way the law can no longer be enforced.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
I have had to work when I wanted days off before although that was due to the boss being away (for about a month/month and a half) and me needing to cover for them. Have had 4 friends who have had bosses just say no to leave before because they can’t be bothered arranging cover including one who has never had time off. It tends to occur when people work the sort of jobs that are about $3-4 above minimum wage from my experience.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
David,
Just the other week my husband was forced to travel on a Sunday afternoon to Australia to a two training session that started on Monday morning. He had no choice, if he wanted to keep his job he had to get on the plane on Sunday.
This is not unusual with his company, they treat weekends as theirs, should they want them.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
Interesting that Australians are too thick to manage their lives.
How do they manage the rest of the year, does someone from the government map out their days on and off from work and organise social events with their friends and family?
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
I was drinking in bars/nightclubs on both Good Friday and Easter Sunday.
Zombie Jesus would be proud, after all wasn’t he getting his merry men on the turps on easter thursday anyways.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
It took more than 2.5 hours for the first comment on this post. Surely that is testament to how absolutely bored witless everyone is with this annual conversation.
All the arguments for and against have been done to death.
If we are seriously looking at sitting hours in parliament, I suggest we ban any further private member bills related to Easter trading. Everyone knows that until there is a government bill we are blowing off time and money to watch an outdated sideshow.
Put this year’s one on youtube and let those who want to watch next year and the year after do so. Meantime stop wasting tax payer resources debating it.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
What do we expect Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim New Zealanders to do? Sit around at home waiting for the rest of us to do our thing but have employers able to force them to work on their preferred holidays.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
How long is it going to take for the general public to be able to decide for themselves whether they want to (a) worship (b) shop or (c) do something else of their choice over the Easter weekend?
Given that penal rates will apply on statutory days, it is also logical that shop owners / business owners will opt out of opening their doors if there is no demand for their product / service. Surely, the public can best decide.
The current situation where we see some Companies simply opening their doors and stating that the subsequent DOL fines are just a cost of doing business, is a legacy that needs to be sorted once and for all. This Easter it was daft to see service stations selling the same products normally found on the supermarket shelf, but the supermarket itself was closed. The same scenario was replicated across NZ – unless you were a designated ‘tourist destination’ etc. The whole thing is simply ridiculous.
National should make this another election issue – if the NZ public wants to see shops open or closed, then they can vote accordingly this Election. The whole debate needs to be put to the vote so we can all do the right thing and then move on.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
My two cents worth — it is hypocritical to want a holiday but also want to shop. Good Friday is a religious holiday. If you don’t want Good Friday then argue for the holiday to go. If you want to shop then go to work as well.
Don’t ruin Good Friday by opening the shops. If you must have the shops open then go to work as well and we will abolish Good Friday as a public holiday. Then we Christians can take the day off by using our annual leave. You fellows want to abolish Good Friday. Then go to work.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Reminds me of when I was in South Carolina, and you couldn’t buy alcohol on Sundays, but they’d just passed a law allowing citizens to conceal their firearms.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
get bent Scott. Easter is not a religious holiday, its the Annual wargaming Nationals, the Paintbal nationals and the annual event for many other hobbies.
The fact that it started as a religious holiday and some people still cling to that is fine for them, but for the rest of us its a good 4 day weekend to have a hobby etc.
oh and your argument is also stupid for another reason. you don;t allow people to ignore it and work. the jewish/buddhist/muslim shop owner has to have a holiday on your fertility festival holiday. given the choice i am sure they would open their doors and have thier day (Yom kippur etc) off instead, but the current retarded rules don;t allow them.
between religious stupidity and the stupidity of forcing retail workers to have friday and sunday off but have stll work saturday therefore not actually getting a holiday the whole thing is a farce.
repeal the forced closing laws and let people either take the weekend off to pray for fertility or zombies, work and get overtime or go compete in a hobby.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
Lucia
“This is not unusual with his company, they treat weekends as theirs, should they want them.”
For once I will agree with you, many years ago I worked for a company who decided they would have a national convention, the convention was scheduled for two days and included accommodation, meals and booze.
The only problem was that the two days they chose were Saturday and Sunday, I asked the GM if we were being paid for these two days or if we were going to be given two days off the following week in lieu of the lost weekend.
The answer did not surprise me, my loyalty to the company was questioned, I was accused of not being a ‘team player’ and it was suggested to me that I should look for something else to do given that I obviously did not have the companies best interest at heart.
The real issue with Easter trading is that most of those who will be forced to work will not have any say in the matter despite what 365 shopping fans suggest.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
Thats it DPF, just keep chipping away. do your part to harm the family unit even more.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Tau Henare should wait about 7 months. Trying AGAIN to reform Easter trading laws at this point seems, well, pointless.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Speaking from experience, I know of a number of people who have been refused leave at certain times, but always relatively senior salaried staff who were (it is said) required for specific tasks or activities. Also salaried people may be required to travel outside normal working hours, as per Lucia-Maria above. Nothing terribly unusual there, a salary is “supposed” to allow for such.
As for sick leave, in an industry I’m very familiar with every waged worker (correction, most, not every) each year uses their exact sick leave up, and what’s more these sick days are overwhelmingly taken on Mondays and Fridays. Funny how illnesses strike so selectively. This also causes real problems for those unfortunates who DO get ill and required extended medical leave, they rarely have accumulated sick pay to cover them. And I may me incorrect, but my understanding is that for the first 2 days you can be required to produce a certificate but only if the employer asks for one and the employer also must pay for the visit. Thus except for those employers plagued by incorrectly taken sick leave or the certain small number of “b*stard” employers, the system will surely operate the same as it has for years with no certificate required for the first 2 days. That’s how my company is working it, using the requirement only where a troublesome person is abusing the system. Sick leave is, after all, not intended to be an extra few days holiday for to allow those who do get sick to be remunerated while suffering and/or recovering from shorter term events. It operates as a sort of “honour” system at least for a start. It’s not worth getting to anal about it, but when abused excessively it is a genuine additional cost.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
I don’t have a problem shops shutting for any of the easter holidays if that’s what is decided.
But who makes the decision on which areas are exempted due to tourism?
Nelson overflows with holiday makers in Easter. Most of them arriving late Thursday with full wallets and empty eskies. If they choose to go to Queenstown they can stock up 1st thing in the morning but everywhere else (except Taupo??) they need to starve until Saturday.
Very strange indeed.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
I’m not sure whether annual leave would be enough. I’m of the understanding that an employee can ask for annual leave, but not get it. If an employer decides he wants to open on Good Friday, and all his employees ask for the day off as annual leave, I guess only a percentage of them will actually get the day off.
Anecdote time: I currently live and work in the US, where (and this may surprise some) Good Friday is no longer a public holiday. For myself, I could have taken the day off as annual leave, but I didn’t bother. In lieu of family here to spend the day with, and with my friends mostly expected to work or out of town, I would have just been doing chores at home, which doesn’t strike me as any more sacred than going to work.
My suggestion would be to allow each employee, at the time of signing his employment contract, to designate some small number of days (e.g., three to five) as “days of special significance” (or something), where the employer would not be allowed to touch those days except if it’s an “emergency service”. That way, those of us who want to celebrate the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus can do so, fertility festivals notwithstanding. A Jew who wants Yom Kippur off can designate it. Folks who aren’t religious can do their wedding anniversary or whatever. And so forth.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
No discussion so far of the Greens’ preferred solution of making Easter Sunday a public holiday where trading is allowed, but everyone gets time and a half and a day in lieu? I like the idea, myself. Trading bans are absurd, but holidays are sweet.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Bruv,
Yep. My husband told his boss here that I wasn’t happy that he had to give up yet another Sunday to travel, and his boss counselled him to not go to with this management in any way, shape or form for the above reasons, and for then being seen as a 9 to 5′er. He empathised with him and said that the only way to make up for it is to take days off during the week. But that quite often doesn’t end up happening because of the volume of work that piles up, and it’s not the point.
I think David might think differently about this whole issue if he had a wife and children.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Typical lack of respect for private property rights.
A gaggle of religious nutters deem a day “sacred”, so everyone else needs to shut up shop? Why?
The Unions want to stop employees choosing to work? Why?
If some people want to take the day off, or worship their invisible friend, by all means do so.
Leave the rest of us alone.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
DPF. I will not name my employer, but it is in my contract that I am expected to work on public holidays. It is a widespread practice in the retail sector.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
i love how in dpf’s world, employers never imply force.
“i want good friday off”
“ok. oh yeah, i cant give you that week off in june you wanted” etc etc
dont get me wrong, employers arent bastards like toad & co make us out to be… but people in retail need staff.
say you have a shop in westfields, if the law changes, they will expect you to be open. so what solution do youhave if everyone says “i want the day off”. the answer is, you force some of em to work
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
DPF: ‘… on the proposition that employers are so evil and callous they will break the law and force employees to work against their wills.’
Big Bruv:‘… is hell bent on forcing all workers to give up their Easter holiday …’
Classic!
/apologies for the Philu-esque use of ellipses
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
This matter is just futile. I have written to my MP, virtually at the top of the political food tree and I get the message that his own beliefs don’t represent mine. His electorate contains Queenstown, which is open. Yet 50km away in Jacqui Dean’s electorate we have labour dept inspectors snorting around for law breakers. (While holidaying in Wanaka)
Vote:I personally believe that all exemptions should be abolished and close up everywhere for every weekend. That would really focus some of our moralistic MP’s with the wrath of the voting population. It’s the inconsistencies that really annoy me and the holier than thou messages given by some of our politicians.
Conscience votes are a waste of time. Tau you are wasting your time !!
April 27th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Poor retail workers. Shit job with shit pay and shit working shifts, where you normally have to work at least one weekend day.
Now let’s start taking away the last few holidays they get to share with others, too.
This is all just another symptom of turning the Earth into the third mall from the sun.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
After another three years of National government we will still be discussing this same absurdity.
Yes, the socialists were never keen to change this anomaly, but at least you would expect Labour lite to do something about it, wouldn’t you?
Two sides of the same bloody statist coin: government knows better what’s best for us, citizens and peasants.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Look you lot — Good Friday and Easter Sunday are religious holidays. The actual word holiday I think comes from holy day.
So you don’t want a religious holiday. We can abolish it and you guys can work. We Christians will take a day off with annual leave. Problem solved.
But you want the day off, you don’t want to worship God and you want to ruin the day for everybody else by having the shops open. In other words you want to have your cake and eat it too. No way. Easter is a religious holiday and if you don’t want to observe it — fine. We will abolish the holiday and you can all work.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
Its a matter of freedom…what right does anyone have to demand someone keep their business shut against their will? The reason we have ANZAC day is to remember those who died fighting this fascist ideal…what a sad irony.
I take it those in favour of shopping hours being restricted had the good grace to stay away from ANZAC day celebrations…? Their hypocritical fascist stench would have been gagging to decent people.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
sorry god botherer but the number of people who are active christians (not counting those who tick christian at census becuase they were brought up that way and feel guilty) is dropping all the time.
so soon (if its not already) your poor ‘everyone else’ will be the minority and you will be continuing to ruin for the majority who dont care about your imaginary friend and want the right to shop or work.
just becuase something started as a religious holiday (and not your religion either, you hijacked some other imaginary friends holy day) does not mean it has to stay that way or that we cannot have a 4 day holiday a 3rd way through the year that has no special significance.
alternatively we can force all christians to not be able to work on yom kippur and they can see how annoying it is not being able to shop becuase of someone elses imaginary friend.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
It’s a pagan festival, actually. Hence the bunnies and other fertility symbols.
That’s what we’re celebrating. Sex.
You can celebrate a dead guy on a stick, if you want.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
…and let’s not forget Ramadan.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
The problem I have with retail opening on holidays is that employers will utilise and encourage peer pressure on staff to work because a minimum number of staff are required. The more interesting question would be how many employees are covered by employment agreements that allow employees to choose when to take holidays. Most agreements I’ve seem state that holidays must be agreed by both parties, except for statutory holidays.
There are a reasonable number of employers who specify when annual leave is taken, but it’s often written into employment agreements, the most obvious case is industry when factories close for their annual maintenance. My first employer closed their factory over Christmas and New Year and all staff took all annual leave, and if you didn’t have annual leave, you took leave without pay. Staff who stayed 5 years got an extra week and they could choose when to take it. The same applied to me when working as an offsider or operator on specialised machinery. It’s not a question of “force”, it’s common sense, and understood, if not explicit in the employment agreement.
There are many inept employers in NZ, but they would have to be insane to impose arbitrary decisions about holidays onto staff. Employees would walk at the first opportunity of their choice, as compulsion shows a level of disrespect expected in 19th Century workhouses. The last decade or so has reinforced to good employers that most employees can be an asset that walks through the door at 0800, rather than a liability that leaves at 1700.
Most of the employers I’ve had gave the staff plenty of warning about impending holiday work, looked for volunteers wanting the extra money, and when they didn’t get enough, they approach staff individually asking them to work. Usually staff will respond well, especially if plenty of notice is given. However, as the 90 day rule shows, there as some employers around that exploit every opportunity to revert to 19th century employment practices under the delusion that they should – because it’s legal.
How hard is it for people to cope with the current few non-retail days?. I want as many people as possible to enjoy holidays,
Vote:and they are convenient times for family gatherings.
April 27th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
If we were free we could perhaps even have a spring festival in the springtime!
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Scott (782) Says:
April 27th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
My two cents worth — it is hypocritical to want a holiday but also want to shop. Good Friday is a religious holiday. If you don’t want Good Friday then argue for the holiday to go. If you want to shop then go to work as well.
Well of course good Friday should go along with the Monday and the two days at Xmas as well. They are all days of holidays that are relevant only to those that practice Christianity. To everyone else they are a blatant excuse to be paid for no work.
On the basis that practicing Christians are now becoming the minority and many other religious groups don’t have their important dates prescribed as National Holidays then they should be abolished as such.
Waitangi Day should go as should Queens Birthday and especially Labour Day but I’m happy to leave ANZAC DAY as our Nations Day. There can be no need to order up extra holidays for when those holidays were first mandated the ordinary working man worked 7 days and 60 hours a week with at most two weeks holiday if they were lucky. No sick days or bereavement leave and such. ( yeh I know but people work so hard these days. That’s why our standard of living is so high and we have so much to spend and not enough time to spend it all).
25 days off, no religious mandated holidays. Organize the days off with your employer.
Indeed its a lot easier to count the days at work then the ones out fishing.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
How many people so desperate to shop on public holidays have kids, I wonder?
‘The right to shop or work’ – ignores the ‘right’ for shop workers to have a couple of days off once or twice at year when their children aren’t in school.
Being given time off in lieu on a day when there’s no one to share it with isn’t much compensation.
Being paid extra isn’t compensation for quality time with your children.
Working/not working given days is rarely a choice for employees: you can ask for time off, doesn’t mean you’ll get it.
Those bleating about ‘freedom’ all too often mean: ‘I want to do this and stuff everyone else’.
“I expect to be off work today, but I also expect other people to work to meet my wishes.”
Their ‘freedoms’ are other people’s restrictions.
Shops won’t go bust just because they have to stay shut once or twice a year.
Religion has nothing to do with it. It could be National April 21st Day every year and people would still moan if they couldn’t shop.
Maybe you could campaign for an annual public holiday to celebrate whining about public holidays?
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
@ sick notes –
Sonny, if I’m sick enough to want to take a day off work (and I’m not the sort to take a day off because of a sniffle) then I’m sure as hell not going to want to get out of bed to go see the doctor. Not well enough to get out of bed means not well enough to get out of bed – simple as that. I think people sometimes put too much stock in doctors as well.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
My 10c. I supported voluntary student unions. I don’t think that other people should be allowed to force me to be a member of a student union just because they think it might be good for me, or they all got together and voted for it. If I was at uni, I might even choose to join if it were voluntary, but what I don’t need is someone else making up my mind for me – I have a right to join what groups I want. That is a fundamental human right.
I also support allowing people to trade on all days of the year. My body, my time, I can sell it to someone else if I want. Nobody else has a right to decide that I should personally want to spend time with my family more than I should want the money from working.
To my mind, all those who argued for VSM (dime, Big Bruv?), and argue for the government to use coercive powers to stop me running a business on certain days of the year, have a logical inconsistency. The two are, to me, incompatible, unless your rules are “what annoys Labour I’m for, and what annoys Christians I’m against.”
Having said that, also fully bored of this annual ritual discussion in kiwiblog, and I almost thought that DPF was not going to prompt it this year. Nobody is likely to change their minds. DPF is right in his position, but I see no likelihood the discussion will have any value.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
PaulL….well said.Yes the flip flop hypocrites like Bruv etc love liberty…until someone else uses it in a way they don’t like.The answer to these sort is “fuck off out of it fascist”.
Mary Rose you are an idiot.So your workers day off (who says they want that day off?) comes at the expense of the right to liberty of the property owner….? Sorry but you fail.Genuine rights don’t conflict.If the worker doesn’t like the conditions of his employment he should quit and go elsewhere…end of story.
Would you allow a guest in your house to dictate to you what they will and won’t do on your property?
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Mary Rose – I have two boys and support removing the Easter trading restrictions. I don’t really care about shopping on those days, but it makes little sense for me to be able to a Playboy at the Service Station but not able to buy a Bible or Das Kapital at the bookstore.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
My wife is a retailer/owner: i have a simple solution (mind due it favours us small retailers):
Vote:Any retailer can open whenever they like as long as no staff are affected i.e. no staff are to be rostered on at all, zero, nada, zilch. If I, and “she who shall be obeyed” want to open her store, without pay (as is the case for most SME retailers) then the labour dept can F.O.
Would piss off Farmers et al and many mall stores but would give the SME’s a chance to trade well.
April 27th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Paul L, James etc. You would be correct, if only you were correct.
Big Bruv, Dime aren’t against people working on certain days of the year, they’re against a select group (Retail, Hospo etc. – people who’s services they have decided they can do without 3.5 days a year) working on certain days of the year.
Big Bruv, Dime etc. still want all those who they may need (Police, medical services people, ambulance staff, electrical workers, television workers, council services workers and christ knows how many others), people Big bruv and Dime may need, to work on those days.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
I hope the Mother of your children knows you sneak down to the gas station to buy a Playboy Michael?
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
PaulL. Equating VSM to shopping on a public holiday is a fallacious arguement.
Being compelled to join an organisation against your will is hardly the same as having to wait an extra day to buy that new pair of jeans you really really wanted because it makes your ass look so good.
On the other hand, retail workers, who often work all weekend, would love to be able to spend time with their families and friends who are your typical monday to friday workers.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Unfortunately the law is a complete ass. For a start the governing legislation is an Act passed to repeal the previous legislation. That is an incongruity in itself.
Most legislation is principled. The Shop Trading Hours Repeal Act is quite unprincipled. If it seeks to legislate rreligious observance then it fails to take into account non-christians. Why should they be denied the right to make a living because another sector of the community worship another god?
If it is simply an enforced holiday for families then why does it not apply across the board? Why all the exemption?
Queenstown is is able to trade because it had the tourist town exemption established under the old legislation. So do parts of Wanaka. The idiot thing about the Wanaka exemption is that the mall was half developed when the Act changed so half the mall is ok and the half half must close. Rationalise that if you can!
On top of all these inconsistancies is the ambiguity. I do not have the Act open and am working from memory. It is OK to sell items of houseld use so long as they are the sorts of items that might reasonably be required. Now, what does that mean? There are all sorts of things I might reasonably need if I am away on holiday.
Why is it that I can buy a book at the airpport or garage but not a bookshop?
Because the Act is unprincipled it has no credibility. On top of that it is ambiguous and therefore bad law.
The government has to decide whether there is any justifiable rationale for the enforced closure. If the grounds are religious then be honest and say so. Then grant the exemptions for the non-christians — not based on goods sold. If the rationale is to provide for an additional public holiday for employees then be honest and say so — but allow owner operators to open and if employees wish to work then allow them to work.
There will be employers who will lean on employees to work. I do not know how extensive that is. The question is whether we need a prohibition that applies across the board because of the actions of what may be a minority?
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
No slightlyrighty, you’re missing the argument. This isn’t about the shoppers, I couldn’t give a rats if people can shop or not. This is about the shop owners and the employees. They are being prevented from working, even though they might want to. Because big brother (not big bruv, just the nanny state) thinks that it knows what’s good for them.
People who reduce this argument to “you can just wait another day to buy those jeans” are willfully ignoring the people who are really impacted. The same as the “but you’re getting great services (that you didn’t want) from that student union, and they’d be much more expensive if only some people participated”. It’s compulsion, and it’s impinging on my rights.
The only argument I’ve seen that’s halfway coherent against this is the one DPF correctly points to – the argument that people will be coerced into working, and therefore that we’ve banned it “for their own good.” Because we the people, and we the politicians, and we the political class, know so much better about what’s good for you than you do, even though everyone in NZ is different – different cultures, different religions, different life stages, different financial needs. Even if I’m a recently arrived immigrant from India who doesn’t worship Christ, has no family or ties in NZ, and no reason not to be at work (on double or triple pay), the politicians have decided that I don’t have that option. I can’t make the choice for myself.
Frankly, I’m with DPF here – where is the evidence that people are coerced into working, and if there is some evidence (a handful of cases), are they any different than the usual small numbers of bad employers? If they weren’t making me work at Easter, would they be withholding too little tax, or not paying my overtime, or any of a hundred other things that a bad employer would do?
Anyway, I know I’m not changing anyone’s mind, but at least we can get what we’re arguing about straight.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
What we really need Nookin is a law that says “You can do anything you like as long as it doesn’t hurt any body else or piss them off too much”.
I can still see a lot of income generating potential in that law for the legal profession so it shouldn’t make them the first victims of the “piss them off to much” clause.
Would put a lot of government employees out of work though.
They would be pissed off.
Shit I think the Lawyers will like my idea!
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Johnboy
Something like
You can piss off all the the people some of the time.’
You can piss of some of the people all of the time
But, you cannot piss off all of the people all of the time.
You cannot shit on any of the people at any time.
Do we really need any more that that?
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
No.
All we need now are the penalties for infringement.
You can piss off all the the people some of the time.—- Kick in the arse by your peers.
You can piss of some of the people all of the time——-Lots of kicks in the arse by your peers.
But, you cannot piss off all of the people all of the time.—-Very serious kicks in the arse by your peers wearing steelcaps.
You cannot shit on any of the people at any time.——You get to lick it all off before you get penalty above.
That should do it.
Vote:April 27th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Right. I’ll print that off and whip under the G-G’s nose for signing. Or has he fucked off to that damn wedding as well as the whole of TVNZ?
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 12:58 am
Lets cut the nonsense about Easter and Christmas being purely religious holidays. Christmas is celebrated by most people in society even if it is just a time for family to get together. Large numbers of people in society travel to various parts of the country for a long weekend or buy easter eggs and hot cross buns and spend time with their family. Even without the religious celebration, most people still enjoy the holiday one way or another. The commercial element to these holidays is also important as these are good money earners for retail companies. It takes quite a nerve to push Easter and Christmas through advertising and make the most of the holiday as a gift giving family time and then turn around and deny staff the opportunity to celebrate as most of the rest of society do.
While nobody is actually forced to work on these days or other public holidays, people like myself who have some responsibility and are professionals who want to be useful to our employers will end up working some of these holidays to the detriment of our personal lives which involve people close to us that do not have similar expectations to work holidays put on themselves. About the right to do business on these days, in many cases the person who decides to open will not be the person who has to physically open the doors and work.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 1:06 am
About the right to do business on these days, in many cases the person who decides to open will not be the person who has to physically open the doors and work.
That’s why the evil capitalist pays you a WAGE to do so Mr A….if you don’t like it work elsewhere…simple enough?
People get provided with work opportunities that will pay them a wage and then bitch and moan that they are actually expected to offer some effort in return…..amazing.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 1:45 am
@James, I provide a huge amount of effort for my wage and am very happy where I am, the company I work for is also very happy with the effort I provide. They provide me with a work opportunity and I provide them with the opportunity of benefiting from my exceptional service. The company also has been given the opportunity for me to deliver results for them, I’m not bitching or moaning, I’m stating the par for the course for anyone that works in retail and is a vital person in making things work. But nice of you to make a pathetic straw man argument out of my point and put in an irrelevant class war slant into it. How many public holidays do you work James, and contributing bile onto a blog site doesn’t count.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 2:26 am
All of them Mr A…that’s in the nature of my job.I chose it so I ain’t bitching. I wasn’t having a go at you per se….just this general lefty attitude around that says…’I have a right to a job…AND the right to decide how I’ll do it”.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 7:02 am
“My two cents worth — it is hypocritical to want a holiday but also want to shop.”
That’s not even worth 2 cents.
Add to the unholy alliance of churches and unions the dairies and petrol station owners who get to sell milk for $2 a litre more than the supermarket and the “tourist” shops in Parnell who get 2 competition-free days. There are so many services and businesses operating on these days that give lie to all this “people need time together” horseshit. Forceing businesses not to operate benefits a few and inconveniences many.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 8:17 am
And let’s not forget all the electricity workers, telecommunications workers, police, health workers, and the tens of thousands of other people who work those days.
I can’t see the religious nutters really “wanting everyone to be together”, as they’ll be doing so in the dark, whilst the fridge defrosts.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 8:23 am
PaulL.
You are missing the point.
Your debate is with your right to shop and the right of the shop owner to open.
My point is that those who work in the shop are forgotten. Public holidays are high volume shopping days. Any large shop with a large staff level require all hands on deck, so to speak. I work in such a shop. Our employment contract states we are expected to work public holidays. While we have the “right” to not work these days, we are EXPECTED to forgoe that right, so that the shop can be FULLY STAFFED.
Next time you shop during a public holiday, take note of the number of staff working in the store. You might observe in the sea of bargains, that the shop is very well staffed. I would be very willing to bet that many of those staff would rather be with family, especially those with children.
Add to that the fact that shops are open 7 days, with Saturday and Sunday the busiest days, which, like public holidays, require the highest staffing levels. I have a school age child. Do you, Paul? How would you feel if you could not spend at least one day a week with that child? Think about it for a minute and you might get some idea about why I am so goddamnned passionate about this issue.
When people like you jump up and down about your right to shop, and I weigh that against my son’s right to see his dad, then forgive me if I don’t see you in a less than favourable light.
I’ll say it again, having to defer a purchase for a day is in no way comparible with being compelled to join a student union against your will. No one is saying that you can’t shop, but you are saying that staff should not have a holiday. Yes, staff have the “right” to take that day, but in practice, staff take that day at their own peril. This is the world we live in. This IS the world that I and my colleagues work in. While some may be happy to work, imagine running a boxing day sale in a large store with 50% staff? If you had any business sense, you would know that is impossible. The ill feeling that would create in a workplace would be poison.
If you were to manage such a shop PaulL, would you be happy to have 25% of your staff rightfully take their public holiday on the single busiest retail day of the year? How much coercion would you use to make sure that your business is not affected? How far would you go to make sure the customer gets the service level that you seem to feel you are so rightly entitled to?
I work in this world. I know what goes on. Your and DPF’s assertion that no coercion or undue pressure is put on employees to give up a public holiday to work is a false one. I’ve seen it, I’ve experienced it. While as a young single guy it’s no great deal, as a father, it’s a major deal.
Can’t you just have a simple day off? Or is shopping the only social interaction you get?
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 8:48 am
So slightlyrighty, you’re saying you work every other public holiday, and that you have no choice in that – it’s a condition of your employment contract. You work every Saturday and Sunday also. Is that correct? Because that’s a pretty big assertion. In my experience, most shops use casual or part-time labour for those days. Sure, a few of the full timers are in, but not every one of them on every single public holiday. Retail is largely staffed by university students and high school kids on those days. And I have no particular compunction in suggesting that university students should work on public holidays so as they can get double time or whatever the going rate is – ideally they’d all get a night time job so we can put interest back on their student loans.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 9:51 am
Gosh you secular people are rude! It is a Christian day and has been for over 1000 years. So don’t go banging on about pagan festivals. Also the number of people that state “no religion” in the annual census is still a minority. So technically the number of Christians in New Zealand is a majority.
I actually don’t believe that secularism will win the day. The idea that religion is dying out that is not true. There are actually more Christians around the world than there have ever been. The number of people who describe themselves as atheists is quite small. Also they tend not to reproduce. And finally countries that are atheistic are few and far between. So do not believe the secular hogwash that one day everybody will think like DPF and other secular liberals of the chattering class. The numbers just do not bear that out.
Regarding Easter once again you want to eat your cake and have it too. You want the religious days off but no religion. You don’t want to even shut the shops because somehow your freedom to shop will be abused. That’s pathetic I am sorry. You ruin the day for everybody else. It’s great to have a commercial free day. Lift your eyes and try and think of something other than commercial gain and consumption. Something greater than yourself — which is what Easter is about.
Some of you — James I’m particularly talking to you — should moderate your comments about Jesus. On judgement day they will all come back to you. You should fear God more than you do. That you are so abusive about the holiest day of the year reflects poorly on your manners and your lack of faith. Hopefully God will be merciful to you.
Scott — out.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 10:18 am
PaulL.
The store I work in deals with large, big ticket items that do require some degree of specialist knowledge. To have an adequate level of service in that area staffed with casual or part time labour would be nigh on impossible. We do employ 2 part timers to manage non specialised areas, but the remainder of our staff are skilled specialists. On our floor, we have no students or high school kids, and if we did, I doubt you would find the level of service or product knowledge suitable. I, along with my co workers, have decades of experience in the industry we work in, and that can’t be replaced by a fresh faced eager young person, who, with even the best will in the world, cannot give the same level of service because he or she lacks the knowledge to do so.
So what my business is left with is the choice of employing part time staff who will be less capable, and may damage the reputation of the business, or to have our full time, experienced staff on hand to put our best foot forward.
It astounds me how different your perceptions are to my reality. In any case, I have yet to see a compelling arguement as to how closing a shop for a day is an infringement on rights, while compelling staff to work such hours is not an infringement on theirs.
As I said, can’t you simply wait a day? I have visions of you sitting at home, seething about your right to shop being infringed, and quite bluntly, that’s a sad one. Go to a park, smell the roses, read a book, watch a DVD, cook a meal to enjoy with friends over a nice glass or two of wine. The option to slow down the frenetic pace of life is a real one, which maybe you should try. So relax. Take a chill pill and enjoy the time. If you really feel the need to shop, where do you find the time to enjoy the stuff you buy? Better still, if you must, shop on-line, but if so, good luck getting an expert to help you.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 10:18 am
Scott
Those are your values and you are entitled to them and be respected for them. They do not necessarily represent the values of everyone. Their values are entitled to respect as well.
God, if there is one [and if the one Christians chose to worship is the "operative" one] is not going to send bolts of lightning down on James because he does not believe.
The point about Easter trading is that there is no consensus, it is bad law and cannot be justified according to any governing
principle.
The unions do not justify it in religious terms. They justify it because their members say they need a family break about one third of the way through the year. They may be right. Everyone feels better for a break. It does not follow from that the break should be mandatory and apply to everyone at the same time. In some places Easter contributes signifcantly to the success of some businesses.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 10:38 am
slightlyrighty, you’re again creating straw men. I don’t particularly want to shop on Easter, and didn’t this easter. I just think it’s wrong that the government prevents people from working if they want to. You’re living in a world where nobody should be allowed to work just in case some people are forced to work. I, like DPF, don’t think that’s real, or a good reason even if it is real.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 10:39 am
Nookin-you may have your values. But why should they be imposed on everyone else? Why should you have what you want? Why should you have the day off on Good Friday if you don’t believe? You want a day off and you don’t want to go to church — fine. But don’t ruin that churchgoing day, don’t ruin the solemnity of the occasion by wanting the shops open. If you insist you want the shops open then go to work. We will abolish Good Friday as a public holiday and then we Christians will take the day off with our annual leave. It’s simple really.
I am not arguing that a bolt of lightning will get James. God is more gracious than that and fortunately for him more gracious than me. But Judgement Day will be on all of us including you. You will stand before God and account for every word that you have said. There will be Justice. God will punish evildoers and reward those who have done right.
It’s actually a good doctrine. It does mean that people like Stalin, who died in his bed, will get his comeuppance for the millions of people he murdered. It also means that those who have done good and are righteous before God will get their just reward.
Instead of being more concerned about getting rewards in this life maybe Good Friday is a good day off for everybody to consider their prospects in the next.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 10:49 am
God will punish evildoers and reward those who have done right.
That’s a common theme – like Nikolaus and Knecht Ruprecht (most German kids stop believing in Santa stuff before they grow up).
It’s a very simplistic threat – how to judge people who have been mostly good but did some evil things, or someone who lives an evil life but does some good and “accepts” God just before they die. Far too complicated to have any realistic chance of working.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 11:11 am
Scott.
I am not foisting my view on you or anyone else. Quite the opposite. I said that I respect your view. If however significant religious celebrations are to be marked for public holidays then the same must apply to all religions — not just Christianity. Because you “believe” does not make you right.
My point about the Act is relatively simple. It is dishonest. If shops must close because of the religious significance of the weekend then it should say so. But don’t stop non-christians working. If it is appropriate to have public holidays at that time of year for familial, productivity, or other reasons then say so – but don’t make it mandatory for those people whose businesses are differently geared.
You talk about a judgement day when I will have to account to god for my comments. I do not happen to believe that. I do believe that I have to account to my own values for my comments and to others who may be affected by them – not on some indeterminate date in the future, but every day — and I have no problems with that. I think I have a degree of tolerance and respect for difference that your strict religious beliefs deny you. That, however, does not make me wrong and you right or vice versa. Nor does it put me in bed with Stalin. It just means that we are different and have to make adjustments for each others convictions
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 11:45 am
PaulL
You don’t seem to be able to comprehend what I have been saying. I am not creating straw men, I am relating my own experiences of WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN THE REAL WORLD.
When my place of work opens on a public holiday, the trading day is double what one would expect on a weekend day which is double what we would expect on a weekday. This requires that my place of work be fully staffed by competent staff. The only way to achieve this is to compell all staff to work on said public holidays.
This is not some fancy pants theory, or some political based thought experiment on the rights of people to work or to have a day off. This is the reality faced by myself, my fellow employees and thousands of retail staff nationwide.
We don’t have oodles of trained staff in reserve for emergencies. If you could spend December and January working where I do, you might have a far better idea of what happens on a retail floor, and understand the reality of what I am talking about.
I’m not spinning shit. I’m not telling porkies. This is not me talking about the rights and wrongs of a situation. I’m telling you what actually happens.
It is plain by your own comments that you doubt the veracity of what I claim. I have worked in this industry for over a decade, and for more than one employer. If you work in this industry, you are expected to work on a public holiday. It’s that simple. You are not required to, as that would be in breach of the law, but if you choose to exercise your right, it will impact negatively on your job, affecting advancement and career progression. (yes, it is possible to call retail a career). So while my employer may comply with the letter of the law, it does not comply with the spirit of the law. Given the competitive nature of the business, I can and do understand the reasons.
However, if all stores were required to close, then none would be at a disadvantage, and no store would lose business, as purchases would be deferred, rather than not made at all.
So until you can at least accept that what I am telling you is fact, we will have to agree to disagree
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
By the way, for those of you who believe that staff are not required to work on public holidays. Please peruse the following
http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs/retail/retail-assistant/listing-369626001.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs/retail/retail-assistant/listing-368710098.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs/retail/retail-assistant/listing-367602580.htm
This search took less than 3 minutes.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Don’t take a job there if it is a problem for you slightlyrighty. I am sure they will not have any problem attracting enough staff who are willing to work public holidays, I know this because I am a retail employer.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
ch123: “The worst thing about forcing shops to close is if I own a shop, let all the staff take the day off, but want to open it myself. I’m not even allowed to do that even though I’m letting all my staff have the day off.”
This is where the dog-in-the-manger attitude of Labour and unions comes into play.
If you open a shop yourself then you are depriving your staff of the potential income. At the same time you can not ask your staff to work. So you are not allowed to choose to do so yourself. That’s the twisted logic I end up with when assembling the reasons.
It’s all about removing choice… except for all the exceptions where removing choice resulted in an absurdity. Forget about the resulting absurdities. They can be solved by adding more exceptions.
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
slightlyrighty: you’re misunderstanding again. You continue to present this as being about me wanting to shop. I don’t want to shop, I just want the government to stop impinging on people’s rights – people who would like to sell their labour at a premium on a holiday, and people who would like to shop. In other words, the government to get out of fair contracts between two individuals.
On the question of being forced to work – you’ve just said that you’re not forced to work. Your career progression is impacted if you choose not to work. I’m sure your career progression is also impacted if you choose not to work overtime. Everyone makes choices every day as to whether to work more or less, and what that means for their careers.
So, yes, in some specialist areas people will be asked to work – and you indicate that’s happening to you already. Why is Easter special? And why should your desire not to have someone hungrier/keener take your job mean that they are prevented by law from doing exactly that? By your logic, we could also get rid of Sunday trading. Nobody would be disadvantaged, right? All those purchases would just be deferred, and people could just work less?
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
PaulL
You say that this is about people who would like to sell their labour at a premium on a holiday, and people who would like to shop.
I have in my previous posts tried to explain to you why that does not work. I will now use small words for your benefit.
Bob, Sue, Simon and David would like to work on a public holiday in a shop owned by Ruth. Tom, Beth, Richard and Kate work in the same shop but do not wish to work on that holiday. Ruth opens her shop on that public holiday. The shop is so overwhelmed by customers that Bob, Sue, Simon and David cannot cope.
When the next public holiday comes around, Ruth now knows from experience that Bob, Sue, Simon and David, who wanted to work, can’t cope with the increase in foot traffic. Tom, Beth, Richard and Kate, who don’t want to work, are prevailed upon to front up, even though they don’t want to, and don’t have to.
This is not about a deal between two individuals, and it does you no credit to continue to paint it in this regard. As I continue to say, the reality is somewhat different.
Now this is not the process that happened. Smart shop owners understood what was going to happen, that is, the shops would be crowded with shoppers, and made sure that the shop was fully staffed, regardless of the wishes of the staff that may have wanted to enjoy a public holiday at the same time as everyone else.
As to your other point. Why not shut the shops on sunday? When did it become so necessary to have 7 day a week shopping? When did we lose the ability to plan ahead? People would not work less, but rather than being rostered on 5 days out of seven, they would be rostered on 5 days out of 6. The business would sell the same amount of product, but other expenses such as Power, Phone etc would reduce by 1/7th.
Sonny Blount. You are a retail employer. Would you get rid of a specialist staff member who wanted to take a public holiday so that he could spend it with family so you could replace him with someone less qualified? What industry are you in? Do you work all weekend? Do you take time off in the weekend to have a life away from work?
Vote:April 28th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Slightlyrighty,
No, I wouldn’t get rid of someone. I have never had trouble finding people to work on public holidays and I almost never have turned down leave at any time. I have worked almost every weekend, often at short notice and cancellation of plans for 8 years, its part and parcel of running a business open 100 hours a week 52 weeks a year. I am perfectly capable of organising my own work life balance, its pretty easy when that doesn’t involve drinking late on fri and sat nights, even farmers with cows that don’t stop milking in easter seem to manage it.
Our public holiday laws infantilise the people.
Vote: