General Debate 13 April 2011

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iMP

That Aussie scientist re the kakapo is a looney, coming from the kingdom that lost the tasmanian tiger and the giant kangaroo. Of course we can keep and rebuilt the kakapo artificially in enclaves and sanctuaries, zoos and animal parks. It’s a rare and unique icon.

Re the Black Robin, it should be renamed the Merton Robin. He literally saved it from extinction.
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April 13, 2011 7:51am
Bobbie black

I was told today you can be breathalized, prosecuted and even lose your car driving licence in Germany, for riding a bicycle under the influence…perhaps even jailed.

Also, if you cause an accident while walking drunk, you can also lose your drivers licence, haha.

What’s up the latest dairy product hike in NZ?

Just sickening.

OK I can be arrested for being wankered on my push-bike here, but at least the milk, cheese and butter is very cheap…or at least reasonably priced

I like gouda.

NZ, the dairy producing nation that rips off its own people.
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April 13, 2011 7:55am
robcarr

@iMP I struggle to believe he sets the threshold of not worth saving at 5000 animals. It doesn’t really need saving if it is over 5000.
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April 13, 2011 7:59am
Viking2

Good the better the diary the richer we will become. Get over it or drink less latte’s and Bailey’s.
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April 13, 2011 8:01am
tester

I just wasted 20 minutes trying to read this self indulgent diatribe.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1104/S00081/helen-kelly-the-hobbit-dispute.htm
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April 13, 2011 8:02am
Viking2

New name for Labour. The LUG Party.
In case you are wondering, its goes like this.
Lesbians, Unionists and Gays Party.
Red blooded men need not apply.
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April 13, 2011 8:04am
KiwiGreg

Yeah because NZ farmers should be forceed to sell milk to NZers for less than they can sell it to anyone else…

Conusmer Commission (or whatever its now called, another waste of tax dollars) calling for a “Milk Commissioner” to set the milk price. Some people are really stupid.
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April 13, 2011 8:06am
Mr Nobody NZ

Viking shouldn’t it be G.L.U.G – Gaggle of Lesbians, Unionists and Gays? 🙂
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April 13, 2011 8:10am
Bobbie black

Well, it would be reasonable to expect that they could buy it at the same price or less than they could buy it overseas.

Relatively, with the exchange rate analysis and so on, Kiwis may soon try to get their friends overseas to send milk products to them in the mail.

Perhaps even the same brands they could buy in NZ.

Yeah, cut criminal legal aid, who cares, but maybe do something about subsidising the ridiculous prices of domestic dairy products.
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April 13, 2011 8:15am
Murray

The Aussie sciwentist applied his formular to people?

DPB’s, and lefties who think everyone should just shut up and do what they tell them to would be on my please check list.
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April 13, 2011 8:22am
SouthernRight

In Southland we had a milk co who until recently sold their milk at up to 40% cheaper than Fonterra. Shame they decided to concentrate on cheese, which funny enough is far better than they stuff Fonterra churn out
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April 13, 2011 8:22am
David Garrett

A frequent topic here and elsewhere is media bias. There is a perfect example of how words can shade the meaning of an article in this morning’s Dom Post, reported on Stuff.

A visiting Californian ex-judge has commented on New Zealand’s “three strikes” law, and criminal justice in New Zealand generally. Among the statements quoted in the article are that compared with California, New Zealand’s 3S law is “pretty lenient”; that attacks on police – such as the recent machete attack – should attract a sentence of “15 years minimum, no parole”, that there are some people in jail who are “real bad asses” for whom rehabilitation is not a consideration.

So what is the headline? “New Zealand Three Strikes law lenient says American ex judge” ? ” 15 years minimum for attacks on police says visting ex Judge”? No. The actual headline is “Three strikes could become a cancer – ex Judge”

While the Judge did indeed use the word “cancer”, what he actually SAID was that future governments MIGHT broaden the range of strike offences (some would say that is a good idea, but that’s another argument), and that that could make the law “a cancer”.

The Judge’s views on 3S New Zealand style will no doubt be quoted elsewhere. A chocolate fish for anyone who can find quotes about 15 year minimum sentences for attacks on police being a good idea, or that compared with California’s law, ours is relatively lenient. But you can bet your ass the “cancer” quote will get major airplay.
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April 13, 2011 8:23am
KiwiGreg

Sadly Murray the population on the DPB is well over 5000 and there is no indication there will ever be a shortage of people on benefits.
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April 13, 2011 8:24am
Longknives

Re the Kakapo article, I couldn’t help but laugh at this quote -“It was up to New Zealanders and, in some circumstances, iwi, which had a special connection to certain species”
Would this be the “Iwi” who mindlessly slaughtered the Kakapo to damn near extinction in the first place?
I’d have hoped someone from Massey University would not be suckered into the absolute myth that Maori ‘lived at one with nature’ prior to the arrival of those evil Colonial ‘pakehas’…
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April 13, 2011 8:24am
Murray

David you can alsways spot a good kiwi journalist. He has an Australian passport.
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April 13, 2011 8:24am
Murray

Apply some principles of usefulness Greg, I think you’ll find they fall below the threashold. And if there’s that many they can support eachiother right?
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April 13, 2011 8:25am
badmac

What’s the difference between a lesbian and a gay? I always thought gay was the superset or is a lesbo now redefined to be gay+
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April 13, 2011 8:26am
Murray

That would be the peoples who hunted over half the native animals to extintion Longknives. As well as defoliated a third of the country with destructive hunting techniques.

Real real “speaical” contection. Ralph Wiggen special.
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April 13, 2011 8:28am
Bobbie black

It certainly took Air New Zealand a long time to drop their prices due to market competition. Demolition of monopolistic enterprises in NZ certainly takes a long time for such a small country.

@SouthernRight, yeah, hopefully small independent companies will take care of the problem in time.
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April 13, 2011 8:29am
badmac

From the herald this morning. Looks like somebody is making a massive profit.

The dairy cooperative’s chief executive Andrew Ferrier told Campbell Livelast night the company has a 12 per cent profit margin.

This means from a $4.80 bottle of milk, dairy farmers make $1.36, Fonterra gets 58 cents and 72 cents goes to the Government in GST, Campbell Live reported.

This would leave $2.14, but of the country’s two main supermarket chains, Foodstuffs could not be contacted by Campbell Live and Progressive Enterprises would not reveal how much profit they make from milk sales, but said they make a profit margin of less than five per cent across all product lines.
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April 13, 2011 8:30am
Murray

If anything screamed for regulation this is it.
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April 13, 2011 8:36am
Bobbie black

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/hunt-culprit-after-laser-shone-plane-4113833

What kind of sick pricks would do this?

Punishment should be blindness by laser in one eye for first offenders.

Re-offend total darkness.
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April 13, 2011 8:38am
RichardX

Fonterra’s margin does not relate in any way to the retail price. All Ferrier said was they make 12% margin. This means they sell it for 12% more than it costs them to produce. They don’t set the retail price or have any influence on the retail price and the retail price has nothing to do with any of their margin / profit calculations
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April 13, 2011 8:48am
nasska

badmac @ 8.30pm

Having two large players in the grocerey business can & will distort margins but a few years ago the quick sellers such as newspapers, bread, milk, butter & cigarettes all had retail markups of 10% or less. Markups were generally set on the average turnover of a product eg 100% on a shrub at a garden centre, 50% for toys & hardware.

Worthy of note is, that although a Countdown supermarket may only average 5% across their product range, that is not the full story. Both Foodstuffs & Progressive are effectively wholesalers who buy in bulk & resell to their respective retail outlets. They never publish their wholesale markups & this will be where the money is made.
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April 13, 2011 8:55am
KiwiGreg

@ Murray – it IS heavily regulated, part of the price Fonterra paid to become an effective monopsonist.

12% margin on a branded consumer good is actually tiny. Note that it is the supermarket’s store branded product which really sets the price.

@ badmac you dont seem to have left any money in your calculation for actually processing, bottling, transporting and marketing the milk.
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April 13, 2011 9:00am
voice of reason

“Murray (7,277) Says:
April 13th, 2011 at 8:24 am
David you can always spot a good kiwi journalist. He has an Australian passport”

Yeah right – journos like Ean Higgins
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April 13, 2011 9:07am
nasska

David Garrett @ 8.23am

Regrettably, even if you live long enough to receive your telegram from the throne, NZ journalists will still be chipping away at your “three strikes” legislation. You & your law were tried ‘in absentia’ by the High Court of Hacks & their disapprobation will be recorded in your obituary & probably carved into your headstone.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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April 13, 2011 9:26am
Bobbie black

Hmm, starting to think KiwiGreg is a tit puller.

Sorry, I meant udder puller DPF.

You know what I mean.
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April 13, 2011 9:26am
BeaB

Typical Kiwis to make such a fuss over something that costs around $4!
Why do some families eat/drink so many dairy products that they are such a huge part of their food budget? We don’t need all that fat and even kids only need a glass of milk a day, not litres and litres, and small amounts of cheese occasionally.
The idiocy involved in food issues these days was shown on (I think) Campbell Live where a woman compared how many packets of potato chips she could buy for the price of a bag of apples. She could have bought even more lollies but is this what she wants to feed her kids? Apples were 54c a kg at my local greengrocer the other day. Poor growers!
And these nitwits who keep saying it is a scandal Coke is cheaper than milk! Of course it is – sugar and water. So you feed your kids cheap junk instead of real food? Water is even cheaper so give them a drink of that when they are thirsty and a glass of milk for nutrition.
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April 13, 2011 9:29am
Bobbie black

Well, where I am milk generally has a 1 associated with it, butter much less than 1 and cheese, depending on your tastes a 1 also maybe up to two.

OK Euros, so times that by two.

The ridiculous thing is that in fact that it may as well be NZ products…as they seem to part of the competition process.

So OK you could argue Germans are screwed with takes but ?
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April 13, 2011 9:34am
Whafe

Bobbie – am starting to think you are little pinko lefty…..

Its a free market, milk products are a global commodity… Just drink less milk, or better still get your own cow…

Be interesting when the population wake up to the supermarkets, if in fact they ever do…. The fact that the population buys into the fact they make 5% margin is scary and totally untrue…
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April 13, 2011 9:34am
Manolo

Comrade Len Brown, hypocrite extraordinaire.

Mayor blocks bid for open debate on Maori Board

Secrecy surrounds a new funding plan for the Maori Statutory Board after Mayor Len Brown yesterday crushed a move by many councillors for an open debate on the issue.

Mr Brown, who campaigned last year on openness and transparency, did not want councillors speaking publicly about one of the biggest embarrassments of his six months in the Super City hot seat. He gathered 11 votes, just enough to stop nine councillors who wanted to debate the council’s new negotiating position with the board in public.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10718891
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April 13, 2011 9:34am
Manolo

Spineless O’Connor shows how emasculated he and his party have become:

‘We’re moving on’ – MPs accept O’Connor’s apology

Labour MP Damien O’Connor says he is genuinely sorry for the offence his words had caused to his caucus colleagues but remains convinced that the list process is flawed. Mr O’Connor emerged from the party’s caucus meeting this morning and said he had apologised for his use of the words “gaggle of gays and self-serving unionists,” as well as for raising his concerns publicly rather than internally.

His caucus colleagues emerged soon after, most refusing to comment. However, Charles Chauvel, one of the four openly gay MPs in Labour’s caucus, said he accepted Mr O’Connor’s apology.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10718789
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April 13, 2011 9:37am
Bobbie black

Sorry, no time to edit.

….So OK you could argue that Germans are screwed with taxes but NZ taxes?

Hmm.

There is no doubt that NZ is an expensive place to live compared to overseas and more importantly wages AND taxes.

But generally things are VERY cheap here and we are earning EUROS of course.

Shit, that went all wrong, now I sound like a prick.

But you know what I mean.

Get domestic prices down.
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April 13, 2011 9:42am
wreck1080

New Zealand dollar is surely going to soar further.

The fact the government is borrowing a billion dollars a month is very bad for the dollar.

High dairy prices too.

Now, Auckland housing is booming again , quality houses are selling well above cv . I know, I’ve looked, you can only buy garbage for under 800k.
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April 13, 2011 9:43am
Bobbie black

@ Whafe, pink I generally only associate with one thing…internationally. Though I did date a Chinese singer called Pink for a short while.

Left, nah, though I did like and respect David Lange and met him at a law soc event, boring as with most law soc events.

He was a cool guy and he drove very fast…I know as I followed him South once out of Wellsford in my Cordia Turbo… for about ten minutes.

His no nukes stand was a strong and noble one and always seemed right.

Of course, now we know it was right.

But the dairy prices ARE ridiculous and someone needs to actually do something about them.

Labour needs a new and dynamic leader…could Jacinda pull it off?

Possibly.
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April 13, 2011 9:51am
mattyroo

wreck1080, in my opinion, the gummint borrowing a billion bucks a month should weaken the NZD, as it is effectively them printing money. Why do you think it is bad (strengthening) for our dollar?
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April 13, 2011 9:52am
mattyroo

Oh and don’t get me wrong, I’m in no way condoning the gummint borrowing a billion bucks a months.
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April 13, 2011 9:56am
Whafe

So Robbie, what do you propose is done to reduce the dairy prices in NZ?

Jacinda, could she pull it off, I think she will be pulling off many other things before pulling off being a PM
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April 13, 2011 10:01am
Bobbie black

@Whafe

“Be interesting when the population wake up to the supermarkets, if in fact they ever do…. The fact that the population buys into the fact they make 5% margin is scary and totally untrue…”

Sounds right.

So good old competition will get the prices down.

In time.

Doesn’t Robin Brooke own one?

Where is he these days?

Last time I was in Kiwiland he was suffering a major NZ media trouncing.

Did he move to OZ?
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April 13, 2011 10:04am
cabbage

I see someone on my facebook wants to “right a book”. I can see that’s going to go well.

I agree with Bobbie. Our biggest export is dairy, and we have to pay ridiculous prices. If our biggest export was petroleum, would we also have some of the highest gas prices in the world? And would that be acceptable?

BeaB: Agreed, taht woman on campbell live could have gone to a green grocers for her F&V, however it seems taht quality greengrocers are becoming a rarity. I’m lucky, i live in a town with ample market gardens and a farmers market every saturday morning. Finding and buying cheap produce is easy (although only for those who are prepared to get off their ass). However i’m picking that this might not be quite so easy in suburban auckland or wellington, in particular for those who’s budget dosent allow for tiki touring around the countryside in order to find cheap food. These people are relatively dependent upon the big supermarkets who sell crap food at inflated prices.

I could be wrong of course, as i’m levelling an assumption that not everyone has access to the good old saturday morning market. Mines 5 mins walk away from my house. Its awesome.
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April 13, 2011 10:05am
Bobbie black

@Whafe on Jacinda

🙂
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April 13, 2011 10:07am
smttc

badmac @ 8.26am

I think the superset is homosexual rather than gay.
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April 13, 2011 10:10am
The Hoff

Tiki Taane needs a reality check…
http://wp.me/p1rzNS-9a
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April 13, 2011 10:10am
nasska

So much for the great white hope from the West Coast. Opens his mouth & lets the Nor Wester blow his tongue around Monday. A mere 24hrs later he merges from the rinse cycle of the rainbow washing machine minus his pride, his balls, his chance of reelection & issuing a grovelling apology.

He should be tarred & feathered & run out of parliament on a swiss ball.
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April 13, 2011 10:16am
cabbage

@The Hoff: Disagree.

The police came back at closing to arrest Tiki for earlier singing a song he often sings. There was no violence. No unrest. Should I be arrested for playing that same song loudly in my car, while parked next to a police car at the traffic lights? I would hope not, and if i was i would fight tooth and nail.

So it offended some precious cops sensibilities. Big fucking deal. I suggest that a thicker skin could be in order.
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April 13, 2011 10:23am
david

Bobbie Black
Check out the CAP subsidies to German dairy producers before trying to make comparisons. The secret is in your comment about taxes.

You are trying to compare fish with fowl on that one.
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April 13, 2011 10:31am
Fisiani

If any readers of this blog are National Party members and going to the Backbencher tonight you could earlier pop into the Wellington Central MTC meeting in Connolly Hall at 7.30 just off Hill St. (ie 400 metres away)
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April 13, 2011 10:33am
Whafe

cabbage – I think you will find that if people even in Auckland and Wellington could go and purchase their F&V from a farmers type market with ease if they wished to get out n about on a Saturday morning…

Best way is to not purchase Vegetables from a supermarket, along with never purchase meat from a supermarket… Go to a Green Grocer and a Butcher…..

Primary Production in Germany is very subsidised compared to us in NZ…
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April 13, 2011 10:36am
cabbage

@Whafe, Yeah, you could be right. I don’t think its as hard as many people make out.

As for meat, I buy mine exclusively from my local pak ‘n’ sav believe it or not. I struggle to find meat that is as good anywhere else locally; and that includes the butchers. At least when it comes to lamb loin chops, eye fillet and fresh fish.
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April 13, 2011 10:44am
redeye

TVNZ continually reports the quote by Damien O’Connor as being a gaggle of gays and some self serving unionist when everyone else reported it as self serving unionist and a gaggle of gays.

A small difference perhaps but made me wonder why they reversed the order. Do they think their viewers are going to more upset at him slagging gays than unionists? And that they have a concentration span so short that they’d never pick up the second slur?
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April 13, 2011 10:54am
Chthoniid

@iMP

The reality is that conservationist-scientists have been expressing disquiet about the effort devoted to the kakapo for almost 30 years. We only have so much resources- money and expertise- to devote to endangered species recovery. Most endangered species in NZ do not even have a recovery programme or budget to restore their numbers.

There has always been a scientific case for not supporting the recovery of the kakapo.
First, it costs a lot of money. When DoC”s endangered species budget allocation was around $5m a year, the kakapo was sucking nearly 250,000 of that. Second, it takes a lot of staff to do intensive management.

Third, it’s a parrot and contributes less to our overall genetic biodiversity than most of our native amphibians, reptiles and arthropods. There are more parrots out there in the world. There are no more Leiopelmid frogs.

Fourth, it no longer has an ecological role. One of the goals in conservation is to maintain ecosystem functions. Birds like the kereru have important ecological functions (seed dispersal). There is not a like case for the kakapo. It barely qualifies to occupy its traditional range.

Fifth, the kakapo is a very risky bet. There are risks of catastrophe and disease that are a consequence of its low population and distribution. The genetic diversity is poor- based on a mere 10-12 females form the 1980s. There are already breeding problems (infertility) being thrown up in some pairings. In terms of having a viable long-term population, it is really going to have to bet some stiff odds against it.

While we put resources into the kakapo, we’re letting other species slide closer towards extinction. In terms of the amount of resources the kakapo consumes, we’re giving up the opportunity to do a lot of good with a lot of other species instead.
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April 13, 2011 10:56am
Bobbie black

Ha, now we have a good respected lefty and a bad yet to be proven lefty.

Game over.

Clitonoid wins over.

I only jest that his popularity came mostly from his photograpic genius and his skill with clits.
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April 13, 2011 11:02am
nasska

Bobbie black

In 2008 (latest figure I could find) German milk producers were subsidised to the tune of €300 million – could lower consumer prices a little.
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April 13, 2011 11:03am
wreck1080

@mattyroo – wreck1080, in my opinion, the gummint borrowing a billion bucks a month should weaken the NZD, as it is effectively them printing money. Why do you think it is bad (strengthening) for our dollar?

Borrowing money from overseas strengthens our dollar because to bring the money into NZ means you need to ‘buy’ kiwi dollars – this increases the NZ dollar strength as there is extra ‘demand’.
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April 13, 2011 11:03am
BeaB

Our Farmers Market costs the earth. Hardly ever bother because of the very high prices.
Much rather go to the Indian round the road or to the supermarket for the best prices – and the trucks come in every day with fresh stuff. Mad Butcher, for instance, gets eggs in every two days. I have no problems with supermarkets either – good fresh food at the lowest possible prices.
Not a problem to feed a family on plentiful, healthy food even on a budget. As John Key rightly said sometimes it’s the choices you make. And I would add low IQ.
I also think many of us just like to grizzle and, instead of buying what’s on special, want steak when chops are cheaper.
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April 13, 2011 11:05am
Bobbie black

I am out, sleep time.

Sorry back in a few weeks, off to surf Portugal.

Out!
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April 13, 2011 11:08am
voice of reason

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/4881586/Flight-lands-in-Sydney-with-reported-fuel-leak

Who would choose to fly Qantas these days ?
I’ve lost count of the number of incidents reported in the last year or so – 10 + ??
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April 13, 2011 11:10am
lofty

@Chthoniid..In your opinion is there a case for the commercial raising of endangered species?

I have a feeling that private enterprise could do a lot better than DOC with less money, there could be a lucrative market selling Kakapo for instance to zoos around the world, they may even taste OK.

Kiwi etc would fit into this catagory also.

Just a thought
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April 13, 2011 11:13am
Chthoniid

@lofty

there’s always a case for it. It doesn’t suit every organism, but there’s no reason to dismiss the idea without some deliberation.

In the case of the kakapo, well, its recovery (by Paul Jensen etc) is a fairly textbook, avicultural operation. A lot of the techniques and methods drew on aviculture- there wasn’t really anything unique brought to the operation by DoC.

There may well have been a case for basically, selling the kakapo off to a avicultural consortium and focusing our efforts on the less charismatic endangered species
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April 13, 2011 11:40am
lofty

@Chthoniid

Thanks, I wonder if the practice would ever be acceptable here in NZ, given the “green” opposition to anything remotley resembling a profit making org.

Maybe if a tribe based program was set up to commercially exploit these critters, it would be more palatable to the populace?

Are you up for starting a consortium?
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April 13, 2011 11:49am
Rufus

Stuff today:

“The Government spends about $225-$600 million on te reo initiatives annually and the panel was to look at whether it was getting value for money.”

1. That’s a huge range of money. Do they spend $225million, or $600million? Why can’t Kate be a little more accurate?

2. $600 million is a lot of money. $225 million is a lot of money.

“Last year the Waitangi Tribunal warned te reo speaker numbers were declining and there was unease over the Government’s response.”

“The tribunal report … called for the Maori Language Commission to get increased powers and become the lead Maori language sector agency.”

3. And no doubt with increased powers comes increased funding.

“Panel chair Emeritus Professor Sir Tamati Reedy said there appeared to have been a lack of value for money in terms of language outcomes, with the number of speakers falling to 23 percent.”

4. No shit.

The report’s recommendation?

“Efforts to increase the prominence of te reo Maori must be focused on getting families speaking it at home rather than spending on education, television and radio, a newly released report shows.”

Bingo. And for that to happen, people must want it. Value it.

5. You cannot force people to speak a language. No matter how much money you throw at it. Not nicely anyway.

6. Might be an idea to rethink this one. $225million is a lot of money to piss up against the wall annually.
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April 13, 2011 12:46pm
Pete George

Key remains firm on not changing pensions.

Prime Minister John Key has revived his promise to resign rather than tinker with the pension and says the string of financial disasters since he first made the promise in Opposition is no reason to go back on his word.

“When I made that promise in 2008, it wasn’t limited to one term,” he said yesterday. “I made that quite clear and it’s a matter of principle that either my word stands for something or it doesn’t. If I say I’m going to resign, I’ll resign.”

He almost certainly won’t still be PM when the boomer bubble bites but his refusal to address escalating costs may mean more drastic changes will be needed in a decade.
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April 13, 2011 12:57pm
Sonny Blount

Won’t inflation get him out of it to a degree Pete?
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April 13, 2011 1:57pm
Kris K

Kaipara Harbour Turbines – More Subversives who Should Be Jailed

There are a lot of people who have put a lot of money into the venture to generate electricity by means of tidal turbines in the Kaipara harbour. They invested that money in the project on the unspoken undertaking that their venture would be protected by the laws of New Zealand.

Once again we have separatist and communist groups and assorted hangers on threatening breaches of law by interfering with this project and apparently the Police will not enforce laws to prevent it. The developers putting their money into this project have been through an exhaustive FOUR YEAR process to prove their plan is OK with environmental regulations. They have agreed to halt the project and remove their turbines from the harbour if there are any damaging effects. The project is subject to constant review by environmental authorities. The project should therefore go ahead and be protected from saboteurs and vandals and subversives by NZ law when it does. [continues]

Hat tip: TrublueNZ
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April 13, 2011 2:18pm
KH

Queenstown Airport Chairman gets the boot. Yes !!
There is justice in the world.
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April 13, 2011 2:47pm
big bruv

Anybody know when VSM is due to be debated again in Parliament?
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April 13, 2011 3:02pm
Viking2

Ryall picks up SOE’s from Power.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/12438-tony-picks-up-soe-job.html
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April 13, 2011 3:06pm
Luc Hansen

I see I’ve snuk up to 80 demerits. I wonder how the hell that happened? I’m usually so polite and I endure so much personal abuse (from people who don’t even know me) that it’s amazing I’m not the only one of a few actually not suspended.

I guess, for most purposes, if one strikes too close to home, the empire strikes back.

All good fun.

Anyway, my question is this: when we get a suspension (assuming DPF sticks to his word of a one week suspension, initially) and we return from that suspension, do the demerits reset to zero?

Anyone know?

‘Cos if this is the case, I may as well aim for a suspension and get back to zero so I can relax a bit (for a while, at least).
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April 13, 2011 4:06pm
lastmanstanding

I note Simon Power has reliquished the SOE portfolio following his usual good sense and understanding of good governance both the reality and the perception.

If this had been a Socialist Minister he/she would have hedl on for grim death even to the point of annoucing their own appointments to SOE Board and ignoring the principles

The same ignorance of good governance occurred time and again under the Clark Administration
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April 13, 2011 4:17pm
Jimbob

I see Wayne Mapp wants to merge the eight CRI’s into three. This sounds good to me as I worked at the DSIR when pea brained Simon Upton split up the DSIR to many inefficient parts and destroyed their research ability by half. Scientists should be pleased as all I can see is scientists getting more money and shinies getting less. James Renwick, the association of scientists president, whatever that means, says scientists will go overseas. I disagree, but will be very pleased if that pin head leaves on the next plane and take his crap global warming research with. I see he wears a stupid ear ring as well. Oh dear.
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April 13, 2011 4:28pm
backster

SONNY……….No the pension is indexed against inflation..Perhaps he could put a surcharge on people still working or above a certain income level.
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April 13, 2011 4:29pm
Lazybum

See Sammy Wong is under investigation. He has a relationship with one of the bidderes for the NZ Rail wagons.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10719038

‘Late last year Mr Hodgson called for the Auditor-General to investigate Mr Wong’s use of taxpayer-funded travel perks after a previous Parliamentary Services investigation cleared him of any serious misuse.
Around the same time, it emerged that Mr Wong had in the past conducted work for a New Zealand company associated with Chinese train maker LORIC Import & Export Corporation, a subsidiary of China CNR Corporation.’

If the Govt gives any business to LORIC they deserve to go down. I will vote Greens in the next election and fuck off to Australia where my skills are worth NZD200K PA. Greens could not do a worse job than the useless pricks in this National Government. I think we will have a privileges committee in the next few months and quite frankly I think the PM is guilty of bullshitting on this and the Media Works meet.

Why the f&%k do we trust immigrants like Sammy Wong. Useless wanker in it for himself. His ONLY regret is he got caught and has lost out on free airfreights to China to do business.
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April 13, 2011 4:30pm
speters

I see National are once again showing a flagrant disregard for the democratic process in their use of urgency.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/4882838/Law-to-fight-internet-piracy-rushed-through
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April 13, 2011 4:53pm
Sofia

following on from Rufus’ comments 12.46
re “The Government spends about $225-$600 million on te reo initiatives annually and the panel was to look at whether it was getting value for money.”

The ‘new’ initiative seems to be “let children learn at home, from parents”
1] how many at home have both parents to spend the time with yet another activity?
2] how many parents speak Maori any case?
3] how many primary school teachers speak Maori to integrate that home learning with English and other school studies?
4] what resources are available for home use?

Some experts I know in the field are utterly bemused as to what $225 – $600 is currently being spent on. I do hope some media will have the guts and dig out information on this – ‘guts’ because such questioning is guaranteed to be labeled – watch it happen.
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April 13, 2011 5:01pm
Rodders

Luc said “I’m usually so polite and I endure so much personal abuse (from people who don’t even know me)”

So, you are happy to receive abuse from people as long as they know you ? 🙂
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April 13, 2011 6:46pm
Manolo

Labour lite making use of urgency like a thief on the night and living up to its moniker.
When it comes to lying and cheating, very, very little separates socialist Labour from its twin brother, National.
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April 13, 2011 6:48pm
Manolo

Sammy Wong, husband of the lamentable Pansy, and crony capitalism go very well in one sentence.
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April 13, 2011 6:52pm
starboard

“Mr O’Connor said he could not go into detail about the case in which Taane, 34, is to appear at the Tauranga District Court on Friday on a charge of disorderly behaviour likely to cause violence”

..just another foul mouthed maori thinking he’s above the law…throw the book at the bum…not so smarty farty now are we tiki..
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April 13, 2011 7:02pm
slijmbal

@naska 8:55 said

“Both Foodstuffs & Progressive are effectively wholesalers who buy in bulk & resell to their respective retail outlets. They never publish their wholesale markups & this will be where the money is made.”

Not at Progressive – cannot speak for Foodstuffs. The supermarkets (retail outlets) are not held in a separate business last time I looked. The margins they quote include all the costs of purchasing, distribution and sales. They used to do about 8% margin of which half was effectively profit on sales and the other half related to suppliers doing specific marketing deals leading to additional contributions to their margins. Interestingly, when they were bought by the ozzies they ended up with reduced profit margin down to 5%. Foodstuffs have also been kicking their butts for a few years now in terms of market share and Progressive don’t seem to have any way to combat them.

Foodstuffs itself is a co-operative owned by the NZ shop owners and I know of no way of digging out the co-ops profits from the privately owned stores who own it. However, considering how little margin Progressive make and that they have effectively the same suppliers and that it is difficult for suppliers to make strongly differently priced deals in an NZ market with a duolopy it is unlikely they are making enormously greated margins than Progressive overall.

The international benchmark for supermarkets is 5% profitability.
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April 13, 2011 7:26pm
Steve

Luc at 4.06pm,
‘‘Cos if this is the case, I may as well aim for a suspension and get back to zero so I can relax a bit (for a while, at least).’
Want a clean slate for ‘Generaly Religious Debate’ over Easter Luc?
Why not have an Easter holiday? just disappear for a few days. Actually, just disappear, that would be good
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April 13, 2011 7:46pm
reid

Not at Progressive

So who in the supply chain is making the profit slijmbal cause it sure appears as if someone is.

Given the way the prices have risen so sharply, almost unprecedented in speed and degree across the board, someone is doing something: i.e. this is not the “international market” this is something going on in our domestic supply chain, specifically.
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April 13, 2011 8:35pm
starboard

speaking of greed ..the kiwi dollar is almost .79 against the US..havnt seen a jump in the price of oil…why hasnt the cost ( oink ) of fuel ( oink oink ) come down oinkkkkkkkkk .
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April 13, 2011 8:50pm
mattyroo

wreck1080 said:

Borrowing money from overseas strengthens our dollar because to bring the money into NZ means you need to ‘buy’ kiwi dollars – this increases the NZ dollar strength as there is extra ‘demand’.

No, that is not true mate. They are buying gummint bonds, which means the state is printing money. They’re not buying kiwi bucks on the cross.

What you are saying is partially true, with the private sector, when they are borrowing money from overseas, such as Uridashi’s from the Japanese housewives. This is proven in that the Yen rose after the recent earthquake and tsunami, as all that money was repatriated back to Japan, causing Yen to be bought.
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April 13, 2011 9:04pm
Viking2

Maori Committee

The meeting, held by your elected Councillors deciding how to spend your money has been held in secret so that you cannot find out what is going on.

Here is the Herald’s record of those who voted for secrecy and those who voted for openness:

11 FOR SECRECY
Mayor Len Brown, Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse, Arthur Anae, Sandra Coney, Alf Filipaina, Michael Goudie, Ann Hartley, Richard Northey, Noelene Raffills, Wayne Walker, Penny Webster.
9 FOR OPENNESS
Cameron Brewer, Cathy Casey, Christine Fletcher, Mike Lee, Des Morrison, Calum Penrose, Sharon Stewart, Sir John Walker, George Wood.
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April 13, 2011 9:05pm
Johnboy

Viking. 🙂

At least here in sensible Wellington we have a valuable Taonga we are arguing over.

It’s made of Totara not plastic and if the worst comes to the worst we can get a shit load of firewood out of it. 🙂
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April 13, 2011 9:10pm
reid

speaking of greed ..the kiwi dollar is almost .79 against the US..havnt seen a jump in the price of oil…why hasnt the cost ( oink ) of fuel ( oink oink ) come down oinkkkkkkkkk .

starboard do you mean oinkkkkkkkkkk or maaaaaaaaaaaa?

Perhaps both apply.

It’s an interesting question though isn’t it. The Kiwi is high on the list of most traded and we experience the constant consequent volatility which rather fucks me off personally, I don’t know about you. But my question is, why us? And my second question is, who does it the most, in terms of our Kiwi trades (“most” being sliced various ways)?

I’m not kidding though, it does fuck me off, that’s why I’d love a tobin tax and my intense frustration is that won’t work unless its globally applied.

What you are saying is partially true, with the private sector, when they are borrowing money from overseas, such as Uridashi’s from the Japanese housewives. This is proven in that the Yen rose after the recent earthquake and tsunami, as all that money was repatriated back to Japan, causing Yen to be bought.

Good point, the carry-trade has dried up forever now.
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April 13, 2011 9:25pm
starboard

hmm.. I wonder what Penny Bright thinks…
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April 13, 2011 9:57pm
reid

hmm.. I wonder what Penny Bright thinks…

Crikey.

Er.

Why?
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April 13, 2011 10:21pm
starboard

just jiving…
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April 13, 2011 10:31pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this?

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/pike-river-2010/72848/contractors-want-pike-river-company-liquidated

“Contractors want Pike River company liquidated ………

Former contractors at the Pike River Coal company are moving to have the company wound up. ………..

A spokesperson for the 43 contractors taking the action, Peter Haddock, says an application to have the company liquidated will be lodged this week. ……….

However, he says they are proceeding with the action in the face of receivers PricewaterhouseCoopers failing to mount a recovery operation and indications that the receivers will not participate fully in the Royal Commission into the disaster.

Mr Haddock says contractors have been told there is little chance they will be paid and liquidation may result in an early sale of the mine to a suitable buyer.

The Royal Commission is set to begin in Greymouth on 23 May. ”

___________________________________________________________________________________

Will the liquidation of the Pike River company help a ‘cover-up’?

If the company is ‘liquidated’ – what legal requirements will remain to help ensure that (ex) company representatives/ staff front the Royal Commission and provide all the requested facts and evidence?

Seen this?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/47745564/Murder-at-Pike-River-Mine-SECOND-EDITION-With-Postscript

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 13, 2011 10:34pm
mattyroo

If they’re doing that not-so-bright penny, then they’re fuckin idiots. Effectively PRC still own the assets, but are under the control of the receiver.

When the mine is eventually sold, then the company will be recapitalised, leaving more than enough money for the creditors to be repaid. It might take some time, but at least they will get paid in full that way. And if they were smart enough to have penalty interest clauses in any contracts, then that will also be claimable.
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April 13, 2011 10:42pm
publicwatchdog

# mattyroo (523) Says:
April 13th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

If they’re doing that not-so-bright penny, then they’re fuckin idiots. Effectively PRC still own the assets, but are under the control of the receiver.

When the mine is eventually sold, then the company will be recapitalised, leaving more than enough money for the creditors to be repaid. It might take some time, but at least they will get paid in full that way. And if they were smart enough to have penalty interest clauses in any contracts, then that will also be claimable.”

You have completely missed my point ‘mattyroo’ /GENIUS.

I’ll try again.

Suggest you take a deep breath, focus, and read the following a bit more carefully?

“Will the liquidation of the Pike River company help a ‘cover-up’?

If the company is ‘liquidated’ – what legal requirements will remain to help ensure that (ex) company representatives/ staff front the Royal Commission and provide all the requested facts and evidence?”

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 13, 2011 10:56pm
mattyroo

I knew that what was you were asking penny, I just chose not to respond to it. Because, if you need that explaining to you, then you’re thicker than I gave you credit for.
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April 13, 2011 11:41pm
Sofia

Penny Bright, what do you believe is being ‘covered up’ in the Pike River case? –
not in some link – just one simple sentence of your own.
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April 13, 2011 11:53pm
reid

Penny re: visual clutter as discussed a few days ago, compare your original to this below. I’m not saying it’s better, but if you’re talking about scan rate, then…

Seen this?

Contractors want Pike River company liquidated ………

Former contractors at the Pike River Coal company are moving to have the company wound up. ………..

A spokesperson for the 43 contractors taking the action, Peter Haddock, says an application to have the company liquidated will be lodged this week. ……….

However, he says they are proceeding with the action in the face of receivers PricewaterhouseCoopers failing to mount a recovery operation and indications that the receivers will not participate fully in the Royal Commission into the disaster.

Mr Haddock says contractors have been told there is little chance they will be paid and liquidation may result in an early sale of the mine to a suitable buyer.

The Royal Commission is set to begin in Greymouth on 23 May.

Will the liquidation of the Pike River company help a ‘cover-up’?

If the company is ‘liquidated’ – what legal requirements will remain to help ensure that (ex) company representatives/ staff front the Royal Commission and provide all the requested facts and evidence?

Seen this?
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April 14, 2011 12:09am
Manolo

The poor Messiah berated by the Left:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/155689-lefts-angst-grows-over-obamas-shift-to-center

Anxiety over President Obama’s shift to the political centre is threatening to alienate the White House’s liberal base.

As Obama prepares Wednesday to outline his deficit reduction strategy, liberals worry he’ll embrace Medicare and Medicaid cuts as an olive branch to Republicans in advance of larger fights over the nation’s debt. The concerns have surfaced after the White House rankled lawmakers on the left by agreeing to a 2011 spending bill that slashes funding for a number of programs long favored by Democrats and embracing a controversial trade agreement with Colombia.

Liberal lawmakers already were irked with Obama’s decision to support upper-income tax cuts he campaigned against and to launch military operations in the Middle East without congressional approval.
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April 14, 2011 7:10am
Monique Watson

You don’t die or suffer if you don’t drink milk. The big ‘have’ of the milk industry is superseded only by that of the wheat ondustry. Historically we are only equipped to drink milk for the first 4 years of life. After that the activity of lactose processing enzyme lactase typically decreases in the gut. Calcium is the most abundant mineral in the body. Funny that. Helps that it is found in most foods then. Cos if it wasn’t, then milk would probably already be regulated. As a medicine perhaps. To me, milk is lolly water. Feed em Fanta I say.
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April 14, 2011 10:38am

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